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DoctorCAD
01-09-2012, 09:00 AM
How long can Goodell keep overlooking the horrific referreeing?

There were far too many examples of missed or incorrect calls yesterday.

That is NO EXCUSE for being beat, just a worried fan wondering if anything will be done to correct the problem.

isunormalil
01-09-2012, 09:05 AM
How long can Goodell keep overlooking the horrific referreeing?

There were far too many examples of missed or incorrect calls yesterday.

That is NO EXCUSE for being beat, just a worried fan wondering if anything will be done to correct the problem.

Harrison was getting held all night.

TRH
01-09-2012, 09:11 AM
throughout the year, i've thought the officiating was terrible. One thing that started to become blatantly obvious to me was that i've realized the referee's are catering to the league office, almost as if in fear of "holding on to their jobs", not unlike many jobs in the real world.
An example? Pass interference calls, How do you not make the call and then seconds after, when a receiver jumps up and down, gyrates all over, and starts screaming, do you THEN reach in your pocket and throw a flag? I"ve seen this happen on numerous plays league-wide. You're not your own man and you can't make your own calls?

That said....i try not to go to that place of "oh, it was the refs..", "the refs suck..", etc sort of whining.
BUT. Last night was downright criminal. I thought that after the game was over that the referee team should be arrested by the authorities and haulef off to the nearest Denver jail. It WAS really bad officiating last night.

plenewken
01-09-2012, 09:13 AM
Harrison was getting held all night.

No he's not. His style (running low to the ground) when he tries to go around the DE makes it look like he's held, but he's not. I watched very carefully last night and there was no holding.

TRH
01-09-2012, 09:13 AM
How long can Goodell keep overlooking the horrific referreeing?

There were far too many examples of missed or incorrect calls yesterday.

That is NO EXCUSE for being beat, just a worried fan wondering if anything will be done to correct the problem.

also....as far as Goodell goes as you mention....this is only the beginning, if you ask me. Its WHAT HE WANTS.
He wants the league and officiating to cater to the offenses and if there's bordeline calls on the defense...i think the officiating crews have been clearly told to MAKE the calls against the defense.
Sad, yes....but i believe it to be absolutely true.

TRH
01-09-2012, 09:16 AM
No he's not. His style (running low to the ground) when he tries to go around the DE makes it look like he's held, but he's not. I watched very carefully last night and there was no holding.

I will agree with you on this one.

I don't buy the "harrison's being held argument". There were many, many other instances though, on the team that should have been called in our favor, but were never called.
In one instance, i can't recall the play or who, but our guy was cuffed, held, then thrown to the ground....i saw it happen...then on replay (while Simms and Nantz discussed a different part of the play but never mentioning this...). No flag.

isunormalil
01-09-2012, 09:18 AM
No he's not. His style (running low to the ground) when he tries to go around the DE makes it look like he's held, but he's not. I watched very carefully last night and there was no holding.


They had two hands on his jersey all day! Yes he is!

The other thing. Taylor is an average CB!! He would get beat all day if not for the bltiz scheme that doesn't allow the QB to throw the ball in 3 seconds... most games.

plenewken
01-09-2012, 09:34 AM
They had two hands on his jersey all day! Yes he is!

The other thing. Taylor is an average CB!! He would get beat all day if not for the bltiz scheme that doesn't allow the QB to throw the ball in 3 seconds... most games.

2 hands on the jersey ain't a holding as long as they're on the chest and they push, which is exactly what happened.

Ike Taylor didn't play well, that's obvious, but there was no pressure on Tebow whatsoever and Taylor didn't get any help either. Don't forget that Deymarius Thomas was the 1st WR taken in the 2010 draft. There was a good reason for that. He's a beast and on single coverage, he'll beat most CBs in the League.

Curtain_of_Steel
01-09-2012, 09:37 AM
Ref's didn't lose the game. If your not going to get the call, change the schemes. We didnt blitz harrison or woodley up the middle once that would stop any holding as the hole would be there.

Taylor sucks, I cant post enough about that, lol.

Now Thomas is great?lol Come on, sure after Ike made him look great.

isunormalil
01-09-2012, 09:42 AM
Ref's didn't lose the game. If your not going to get the call, change the schemes. We didnt blitz harrison or woodley up the middle once that would stop any holding as the hole would be there.

Taylor sucks, I cant post enough about that, lol.

Now Thomas is great?lol Come on, sure after Ike made him look great.

Thomas isn't great! Ike is just that average. He can't play 1 on 1!

I never said refs "lost" the game for us. It's not on the refs. The fact that Tebow look like Tom Brady lost the game! He couldn't throw for 200 yards all season, and throws for 300 against the Steelers!

DoctorCAD
01-09-2012, 10:38 AM
Ref's didn't lose the game. If your not going to get the call, change the schemes. We didnt blitz harrison or woodley up the middle once that would stop any holding as the hole would be there.

Taylor sucks, I cant post enough about that, lol.

Now Thomas is great?lol Come on, sure after Ike made him look great.

Not ONE single instance of "Refs lost the game" was brought up in this post.
Why do you even mention it?

The issue is the lack of quality referees and what will be done about it?

SteeleReign
01-09-2012, 10:57 AM
No he's not. His style (running low to the ground) when he tries to go around the DE makes it look like he's held, but he's not. I watched very carefully last night and there was no holding.

Disagree. On the play where Ike was called for pass interference, Harrison was CLEARLY being held. Harrison's running style aside, if James is past the o-lineman & the o-lineman is still holding onto the jersey, that is holding. Happens quite often.

NateCohen
01-09-2012, 11:09 AM
OOOOH I know what you mean with bad reffing...

Like that horrible call against Denver on that lateral pass.

SteeleReign
01-09-2012, 11:12 AM
OOOOH I know what you mean with bad reffing...

Like that horrible call against Denver on that lateral pass.

lol...I think the OP was arguing that the refs have been horrible all across the board. Not just against the Steelers. Nice try at stirring the pot though. :thumbsup:

NateCohen
01-09-2012, 11:13 AM
Not trying to stir anything...it does go both ways...

But I'm ready for some Brady loving next week...we all know how much the refs love Brady and that's something everyone can agree on.

GMU Steeler
01-09-2012, 11:15 AM
Not trying to stir anything...it does go both ways...

But I'm ready for some Brady loving next week...we all know how much the refs love Brady and that's something everyone can agree on.

Well everyone except Patriots fans but yeah. Now, there's a crybaby QB.

NateCohen
01-09-2012, 11:19 AM
It's been so bad this year. I had Sunday Ticket so I got to see a lot of Patriots and Packers games.
I really feel like every week the referees would constantly bail out those 2 teams at the right moments.

Did anyone see that Tampa Bay and Green Bay game? That was one of the worst I have seen in a long time.

SteeleReign
01-09-2012, 11:21 AM
Not trying to stir anything...it does go both ways...

But I'm ready for some Brady loving next week...we all know how much the refs love Brady and that's something everyone can agree on.

For sure! Marcia will be crying like a school girl as usual.

DoctorCAD
01-09-2012, 12:12 PM
OOOOH I know what you mean with bad reffing...

Like that horrible call against Denver on that lateral pass.

and the 2 facemask penalties that they missed.

hornstar19
01-09-2012, 02:11 PM
The refs did not lose this game for the Steelers. The refs KEPT THEM IN THE GAME. Your touchdown drive was extended because the refs incorrectly called a backward pass an incomplete pass. If they got that call right on the field, it is Denver ball at around the 25. Instead, the drive turns into 7 points. Sure some holding calls were missed, but they were missed both ways. Literally about 3 face mask penalties were missed against the Steelers. All 15 yard first downs. Some would have been drive extending. Far and away the biggest call in this game and likely a minimum of a 10 point swing went in favor of the Steelers, and allowed them to reach overtime. If not for that, they aren't even in the game. Stop crying about the refs. They didn't lose this game. The Steelers did. They underestimated Tebow being able to hit open receivers and went with cover 0 man with 9-10 in the box. They didn't make the adjustments, and they lost the game.

SteelCityMom
01-09-2012, 02:14 PM
The refs did not lose this game for the Steelers. The refs KEPT THEM IN THE GAME. Your touchdown drive was extended because the refs incorrectly called a backward pass an incomplete pass. If they got that call right on the field, it is Denver ball at around the 25. Instead, the drive turns into 7 points. Sure some holding calls were missed, but they were missed both ways. Literally about 3 face mask penalties were missed against the Steelers. All 15 yard first downs. Some would have been drive extending. Far and away the biggest call in this game and likely a minimum of a 10 point swing went in favor of the Steelers, and allowed them to reach overtime. If not for that, they aren't even in the game. Stop crying about the refs. They didn't lose this game. The Steelers did. They underestimated Tebow being able to hit open receivers and went with cover 0 man with 9-10 in the box. They didn't make the adjustments, and they lost the game.

Hey, go back to the beginning of the thread and actually read it this time.

Nobody claimed the refs were the reason the Steelers lost. This is a thread bitching about the general incompetence of the NFL refs.

Sounds like you had your excuses all lined up though should the Broncos have lost.

SteeleReign
01-09-2012, 02:37 PM
Hey, go back to the beginning of the thread and actually read it this time.

Nobody claimed the refs were the reason the Steelers lost. This is a thread bitching about the general incompetence of the NFL refs.

Sounds like you had your excuses all lined up though should the Broncos have lost.

LOL...sure did...I'm sure he's been cutting & pasting that post into Steelers boards all day. :chuckle:

DoctorCAD
01-09-2012, 03:45 PM
The refs did not lose this game for the Steelers. The refs KEPT THEM IN THE GAME. Your touchdown drive was extended because the refs incorrectly called a backward pass an incomplete pass. If they got that call right on the field, it is Denver ball at around the 25. Instead, the drive turns into 7 points. Sure some holding calls were missed, but they were missed both ways. Literally about 3 face mask penalties were missed against the Steelers. All 15 yard first downs. Some would have been drive extending. Far and away the biggest call in this game and likely a minimum of a 10 point swing went in favor of the Steelers, and allowed them to reach overtime. If not for that, they aren't even in the game. Stop crying about the refs. They didn't lose this game. The Steelers did. They underestimated Tebow being able to hit open receivers and went with cover 0 man with 9-10 in the box. They didn't make the adjustments, and they lost the game.

When you can find ONE instance of anything you are spouting, come back...until then GTFO ass fan.

tanda10506
01-09-2012, 03:52 PM
No he's not. His style (running low to the ground) when he tries to go around the DE makes it look like he's held, but he's not. I watched very carefully last night and there was no holding.

Quit fooling yourself, he got dragged from behind by his jersey once last night and it wasn't called. Has nothing to do with how low he is, when a guy is blocking you by any means while behind you, it's either going to be a hold or a block in the back. Don't base it off of one game though, this game he was held much less than normally even.

tanda10506
01-09-2012, 04:03 PM
The refs didn't lose the game for us on their own but they sure put us at a disadvantage. I will admit that absolutely sickening bubble screen we keep running was a fumble and that actually helped us, but for the better part of the year, much like this game, the refs have kept other teams in games and stunted drives for us. We only commit about 50% of the penalties we are called for and we can't get a single flag when our DB's get pushed off by WR's and when Harrison is held every play. Some may disagree, but the refs hurt us this year with their bias and/or ignorance. We had plenty of chances to succeed this game and many others, in spite of the refs, some games we did and some we did not, but we shouldn't have to win in spite of the league. I feel like the Steelers are singled out above anybody else, but when I watch other teams play, most of the calls are so bad that it's hard to not just assume that they are completely incompetent. What is irritating to me is that, as mentioned, they don't throw flags until opposing players and opposing crowds call for them, they make the wrong calls on OBVIOUS plays, they will ignore something all game and then throw a flag for the same thing in the most crucial times, yet NOBODY in the league, nobody in any teams ownership, says "Hey we need new refs". Now it's not possible for the entire league and all the owners and FO to not see this stuff, so what does that tell you?

Sixburgher
01-09-2012, 04:07 PM
Sounds like you had your excuses all lined up though should the Broncos have lost.

And not the least bit surprising, coming from a Ravens fan: http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?p=982267#post982267

plenewken
01-09-2012, 04:07 PM
Quit fooling yourself, he got dragged from behind by his jersey once last night and it wasn't called. Has nothing to do with how low he is, when a guy is blocking you by any means while behind you, it's either going to be a hold or a block in the back. Don't base it off of one game though, this game he was held much less than normally even.

Maybe I missed one instance where he was dragged by his jersey but I thought I watched him on every play at the line of scrimmage yesterday. When he runs outside the OT, his low posture with his inside shoulder much lower than the outside makes you think that he's being held but that's his style.
I agree that he's been held many times without getting a call this season but yesterday was the cleanest I've seen an OL play him.

madtowndrunkard
01-09-2012, 11:19 PM
anyone see the article in the Denver post.com? The bronco's last play should not have counted because of a blatant illegal formation.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19706529?source=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dp-sports-broncos+%28Denver+Post%3A+Sports%3A+Broncos%29

TRH
01-09-2012, 11:30 PM
interesting. I'm sure none of the "big time" sports media shows will report on this.

They would only call that a penalty if the Steelers executed it. "Leaping" anyone??

jiminpa
01-09-2012, 11:34 PM
The refs did not lose this game for the Steelers. The refs KEPT THEM IN THE GAME. Your touchdown drive was extended because the refs incorrectly called a backward pass an incomplete pass. If they got that call right on the field, it is Denver ball at around the 25. Instead, the drive turns into 7 points. Sure some holding calls were missed, but they were missed both ways. Literally about 3 face mask penalties were missed against the Steelers. All 15 yard first downs. Some would have been drive extending. Far and away the biggest call in this game and likely a minimum of a 10 point swing went in favor of the Steelers, and allowed them to reach overtime. If not for that, they aren't even in the game. Stop crying about the refs. They didn't lose this game. The Steelers did. They underestimated Tebow being able to hit open receivers and went with cover 0 man with 9-10 in the box. They didn't make the adjustments, and they lost the game.I agree that the correct call would have been a reverse lateral, but once the whistle blew before there was clear possession and knowing that if the Steelers even breathed in the direction of an opponent after the whistle for the last two years they got flagged, fined and publicly ridiculed, how do you make it right? You don't. It was a legitimately incorrect call on the field that because of the clear whistle before change of possession could not be overturned on the replay. 90% of the time that works against the Steelers, and I was surprised the replay official actually called it straight. But don't forget the offensive pass interference that Ike Taylor wound up somehow getting charged with to extend a Denver drive, and it was offensive pass interference; Taylor was the only one even looking at the ball, let alone playing it.

harrison'samonster
01-09-2012, 11:48 PM
I agree, the refs have been especially bad all year long. I tend to watch 3 games every Sunday, and I can remember sometimes just shaking my head wondering what was going on.

One reason they might be having so much trouble is the rules changing every year. It's led to a lot of inconsistent officiating. Other than that though, the refs have been just terrible.

tony hipchest
01-09-2012, 11:54 PM
ike taylor did not pass interfere. he was looking back at the ball and there was incidental contact.

td pass over gay i think. one foot was in maybe aknee, but an ass cheek was on the out of bounds line at the same time.

james harrisons roughing penalty? bullshit.

all 3 of these were "judgement calls" where the refs sided with caution to not give the steelers ANY benefit of the doubt.

with that being said, the blind and ignorant refs completely missed 2 facemasks and dont know the difference between a forward pass, and a behind the line lateral. i would like to think those were "make up" calls but the refs arent that smart. if they seen it, they woulda most certainly thrown the flag.

the refs screwed the pooch the day before when they robbed the lions a defensive fumble return vs the saints that woulda made the score 21-7 and possibly changed the complex of the game.

the rules change so quickly, frequently, and arbitrarily under goodell, the refs are no longer able to keep up.

madtowndrunkard
01-10-2012, 12:10 AM
ike taylor did not pass interfere. he was looking back at the ball and there was incidental contact.

td pass over gay i think. one foot was in maybe aknee, but an ass cheek was on the out of bounds line at the same time.

james harrisons roughing penalty? bullshit.

all 3 of these were "judgement calls" where the refs sided with caution to not give the steelers ANY benefit of the doubt.

with that being said, the blind and ignorant refs completely missed 2 facemasks and dont know the difference between a forward pass, and a behind the line lateral. i would like to think those were "make up" calls but the refs arent that smart. if they seen it, they woulda most certainly thrown the flag.

the refs screwed the pooch the day before when they robbed the lions a defensive fumble return vs the saints that woulda made the score 21-7 and possibly changed the complex of the game.

the rules change so quickly, frequently, and arbitrarily under goodell, the refs are no longer able to keep up.


Can't really defend this though... I mean every ref on the field is staring right at them at this very moment the ball is snapped. I'd argue 2 of their downed linemen were not even on the LOS. Maybe you can ignore one of them...but the guy 2-3 yards off the LOS...that's ridiculous. I bring this up only as an example of how bad the officiating has become. The NBA laughs at the NFL.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19706529?source=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dp-sports-broncos+%28Denver+Post%3A+Sports%3A+Broncos%29

tony hipchest
01-10-2012, 12:18 AM
Can't really defend this though... I mean every ref on the field is staring right at them at this very moment the ball is snapped. I'd argue 2 of their downed linemen were not even on the LOS. Maybe you can ignore one of them...but the guy 2-3 yards off the LOS...that's ridiculous. I bring this up only as an example of how bad the officiating has become. The NBA laughs at the NFL.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19706529?source=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dp-sports-broncos+%28Denver+Post%3A+Sports%3A+Broncos%29100% correct and i shouldve acknowledged it as i 1st saw it when you initially posted it.

teh whole time DT was running down the sideline for the game winner i was saying to myself and hoping, "there has to be a flag, there has to be a flag..."

turns out there shoulda been.

the refs will never get it right. i just hope ben learns to not take a sack everytime we are trying to advance the ball 5 yards to get suisham into FG range.

maybe 1 day we will get running plays specifically designed for that situation w/o having ben try to scramble for an infamous 40 yd td strike.

BleedPurple
01-10-2012, 12:30 AM
Yea the guy is 1/2 step back off the line. The article even says they dont get technical with this. It looks close enough to me. I would be pissed if that was called against my team, ticky tack. . .

tony hipchest
01-10-2012, 12:41 AM
Yea the guy is 1/2 step back off the line. The article even says they dont get technical with this. It looks close enough to me. I would be pissed if that was called against my team, ticky tack. . .actually look again. all the others on the line are half a step behind the line (which is allowed as long as their shoulders are w/in the centers ass to midsection.

the highlighted guy is easilly "off the line".

if i werent over it already, and if this had been pointed out during the broadcast i'd be fuming,

but knowing we are decimated with injuries (add starx, hampton, and keisel) and knowing goodell would suspend harrison for the remainder of the post season, it became pretty evident we had shot our wad just to get to 12-4 and attempt to win the division.

we'll get em next year. (unfortunately we got another game in denver ryan clark will not be able to play- i blame the refs for that as well.)

jjpro11
01-10-2012, 01:46 AM
for what are supposed to be "the best" refs from during the regular season, these playoffs have been refereed like a joke. they sucked both ways during our game.. they blew a huge call in the Saints-Lions game. i remember a couple of shitty calls during the Texans-Bengals game also.

GMU Steeler
01-10-2012, 01:57 AM
anyone see the article in the Denver post.com? The bronco's last play should not have counted because of a blatant illegal formation.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19706529?source=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dp-sports-broncos+%28Denver+Post%3A+Sports%3A+Broncos%29

Agh.

TRH
01-10-2012, 08:58 AM
Yea the guy is 1/2 step back off the line. The article even says they dont get technical with this. It looks close enough to me. I would be pissed if that was called against my team, ticky tack. . .


yeah, but its "OK" to call a "leaping" penatly against Pittsburgh a few weeks back. I'm not convinced that this would not have been called against Pittsburgh, It very well might have been (probably would have)

madtowndrunkard
01-10-2012, 09:04 AM
Again I'll make my self clear... I did not put this up to say we were screwed by the refs out of a victory. Just showing another example of how bad the officiating is.

The rules say you have to be with in a yard of the LOS. The LOS is the 20 yard line. Knowing how bad the officials / NFL hates James Harrison it does not surprise me that they would ignore the fact that the offensive lineman are allowed an extra yard of cushin. That is a huge advantage btw when blocking a pass rusher. If you could just lineup 2 yards back it's pretty easy to react to what ever the LB is doing.

This is a penalty that should be called every time because it gives a huge advantage to the blocker. I'd consider illegal hands to the face, illegal motion, and most facemask penalties, and backward laterals to be ticky tack...as those penalties are not so much a player trying to gain an illegal advantage...but more a technical issue or a safety issue. For example the lateral pass by Ben that most think was backwards. I'd love to see a replay because I'm not so sure it was backwards...but even if it was you are talking about inches.... that did nothing for anyone. But allow your OT to lineup 2 yards back so he can handle the rush....that's blatant cheating....much like holding or pass interference. (not of the ticky tack variety either) Just saying.... the refs were not ignoring a ticky tack penalty.

look at it this way...lets say Troy times the snap wrong, blatantly crosses the LOS before the ball is snapped and sacks the QB on that play. What would Denver fans (and the talking heads) be saying?

plenewken
01-10-2012, 09:23 AM
Again I'll make my self clear... I did not put this up to say we were screwed by the refs out of a victory. Just showing another example of how bad the officiating is.

The rules say you have to be with in a yard of the LOS. The LOS is the 20 yard line. Knowing how bad the officials / NFL hates James Harrison it does not surprise me that they would ignore the fact that the offensive lineman are allowed an extra yard of cushin. That is a huge advantage btw when blocking a pass rusher. If you could just lineup 2 yards back it's pretty easy to react to what ever the LB is doing.

This is a penalty that should be called every time because it gives a huge advantage to the blocker. I'd consider illegal hands to the face, illegal motion, and most facemask penalties, and backward laterals to be ticky tack...as those penalties are not so much a player trying to gain an illegal advantage...but more a technical issue or a safety issue. For example the lateral pass by Ben that most think was backwards. I'd love to see a replay because I'm not so sure it was backwards...but even if it was you are talking about inches.... that did nothing for anyone. But allow your OT to lineup 2 yards back so he can handle the rush....that's blatant cheating....much like holding or pass interference. (not of the ticky tack variety either) Just saying.... the refs were not ignoring a ticky tack penalty.

look at it this way...lets say Troy times the snap wrong, blatantly crosses the LOS before the ball is snapped and sacks the QB on that play. What would Denver fans (and the talking heads) be saying?

I agree with you that not lining up properly at the line of scrimmage gives the Offense an unfair advantage over the D and should be sanctioned all the time. It should even be challengeable, even if there's no penalty, the same way the spot of the ball can be challenged today.
There are way too many rules, most of which make no sense whatsoever in the spirit of the game. This is why the refs can't enforce them all otherwise they could throw the flag on each and every play.
More often than none, these infractions are not even seen by the refs and they only throw a flag because the opponent on the sideline points it out. The worst part is when it takes 10mn of intense scrutiny of a replay to determine if a score is valid or not. It is absolutely insane.
Football has becoming a travesty of a sport. It's no more than a TV show now where money controls all aspects of the game ( TV, Corporate, ownership and betting money included).

TRH
01-10-2012, 09:25 AM
I agree with you that not lining up properly at the line of scrimmage gives the Offense an unfair advantage over the D and should be sanctioned all the time. It should even be challengeable, even if there's no penalty, the same way the spot of the ball can be challenged today.

Football has becoming a travesty of a sport. It's no more than a TV show now where money controls all aspects of the game ( TV, Corporate, ownership and betting money included).


....EXACTLY what Goodell and his office colleagues want.