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View Full Version : I think Tomlin might be a por Judge of Coaching Talent...


BKAnthem
01-17-2012, 01:03 PM
Aside from Lebeau..even though i'm still pissed about the Denver game is one of the best ever as is John Mitchell, Good coaching almost always filters down to creating a strong team...But what about ..

Randy Fitchner- Dennis Dixon looks worse every time he steps on the field.... and When Ben was serving his 6 game suspension he gave George Whitfield Jr credit for fixing his mechanics, Never saw 1 quote from him like that about Fitchner....ever

Larry (Flynt) Zierlein- Were we a zone blocking Oline or Power blocking?..even old Larry Didn't know which is disturbing tio say the least....which brings me to the man who Bullshitted Tomlin into hiring Him

Bruce Arians...what can i say that hasn't already been said.....

Sean Kugler- The Oline actually looks worse than when Zeirlein was coaching it (at least you got free porn links from Larry)

Just my observation from NYC, but i've been a fan since i was 7 years old in '77...maybe some of you Homegrown Natives can see this more clearly than me, I love the Lake hire but i feel like that suggestion came from the Rooneys... And let me end by saying like Mike but Cowher had no patience for poor coaching (he fired WR coach Kenny Jackson after 1 season) why does Tomlin ?

Sixburgher
01-17-2012, 01:10 PM
Arians was initially hired by Cowher. Just saying.

Looks like it's going to be a long offseason of stupid knee jerk oversimplifications.

BKAnthem
01-17-2012, 01:30 PM
Arians was initially hired by Cowher. Just saying.

Looks like it's going to be a long offseason of stupid knee jerk oversimplifications.

Not as OC...., even Cowher knew better

Bayz101
01-17-2012, 01:30 PM
Cowher hired Arians, buddy. It is going to be a long off-season filled with whining from a lot of fans. That's okay, i'll be spending most of this off-season at another board. There's lots of fans on here that are really true to there team, and then there's fans that just ruin it for everybody. Not saying that your one of them, but I don't agree with much of your logic.

BKAnthem
01-17-2012, 01:34 PM
Cowher hired Arians, buddy. It is going to be a long off-season filled with whining from a lot of fans. That's okay, i'll be spending most of this off-season at another board. There's lots of fans on here that are really true to there team, and then there's fans that just ruin it for everybody. Not saying that your one of them, but I don't agree with much of your logic.

Not as OC...., even Cowher knew better

And he definitely would have reigned him in by now...

GMU Steeler
01-17-2012, 01:37 PM
Tomlin also decided to keep Lebeau and not switch the scheme like many thought he might since he was a Tampa 2 guy in Tampa and Minnesota. Also, what about Scotty Montegomery. Wallace and Brown have both become legit stars. Kugler? Look at what he's been dealt outside Gilbert and Pouncey. And I'll also mention Al Everest the ST coach. Our STs were awful under Bob Ligacantspellhislastname.

Bayz101
01-17-2012, 01:40 PM
Not as OC...., even Cowher knew better

And he definitely would have reigned him in by now...

Bill? Is that you? No it can't be, your not spitting all over the place. So, if your not Cowher, how could you possibly know anything in which you just said? You don't. Cowher got his ring and left.

BKAnthem
01-17-2012, 01:46 PM
Tomlin also decided to keep Lebeau and not switch the scheme like many thought he might since he was a Tampa 2 guy in Tampa and Minnesota. Also, what about Scotty Montegomery. Wallace and Brown have both become legit stars. Kugler? Look at what he's been dealt outside Gilbert and Pouncey. And I'll also mention Al Everest the ST coach. Our STs were awful under Bob Ligacantspellhislastname.

Well Lebeau i already exempted from this, and you are correct on Everest and Monty, But aren't the players on the Oline guys Kugler lobbies for out of training camp outside of the starters?

BKAnthem
01-17-2012, 01:49 PM
Bill? Is that you? No it can't be, your not spitting all over the place. So, if your not Cowher, how could you possibly know anything in which you just said? You don't. Cowher got his ring and left.

did the Steeler Offense ever operate this long playing this way under Cowher? when he went pass happy with Zeroue and Maddox that 6-10 season brought him back to reality in a hurry....excuse my spit...

GMU Steeler
01-17-2012, 01:50 PM
Well Lebeau i already exempted from this, and you are correct on Everest and Monty, But aren't the players on the Oline guys Kugler lobbies for out of training camp outside of the starters?

True that, I just disagree with you that he's worse than Ziegler was. But Ziegler never had Pouncey to coach either. I think Tomlin's record on his staff is mixed. And apologies for not seeing your Lebeau exemption. I kinda disagree since it's usually expected for a HC to bring his own ideas on D much like Cowher was a change from Noll's philosophy though we had already switched to the 3-4.

Bayz101
01-17-2012, 01:53 PM
did the Steeler Offense ever operate this long playing this way under Cowher? when he went pass happy with Zeroue and Maddox that 6-10 season brought him back to reality in a hurry....excuse my spit...

You can say what you want, but Tomlin's already matched everything Cowher ever did for this team but Making two Super Bowl's, and winning one. You can say he inherited this team from Cowher, but the team that made the Super Bowl last year was hardly his team, including the defense.

I don't like Arians, but I don't expect Tomlin to push him away.

BKAnthem
01-17-2012, 01:57 PM
You can say what you want, but Tomlin's already matched everything Cowher ever did for this team but Making two Super Bowl's, and winning one. You can say he inherited this team from Cowher, but the team that made the Super Bowl last year was hardly his team, including the defense.

I don't like Arians, but I don't expect Tomlin to push him away.

I disagree...Cowher built this team from Loser to Powerhouse...I like Coach Tomlin...alot...but until he does that he's not Cowher's match....yet...and that's not saying he won't be i hope he does...but not yet....

BKAnthem
01-17-2012, 01:58 PM
True that, I just disagree with you that he's worse than Ziegler was. But Ziegler never had Pouncey to coach either. I think Tomlin's record on his staff is mixed. And apologies for not seeing your Lebeau exemption. I kinda disagree since it's usually expected for a HC to bring his own ideas on D much like Cowher was a change from Noll's philosophy though we had already switched to the 3-4.

It's cool bro..we can respectfully agree to disagree, it's what makes me proud to be an American :tt04:

GMU Steeler
01-17-2012, 01:59 PM
It's cool bro..we can respectfully agree to disagree, it's what makes me proud to be an American :tt04:

Yep. Anyhow hoping we're in the conference championships this time next year. That I think we ALL can agree on.

steeltheone
01-17-2012, 02:02 PM
You can say what you want, but Tomlin's already matched everything Cowher ever did for this team but Making two Super Bowl's, and winning one. You can say he inherited this team from Cowher, but the team that made the Super Bowl last year was hardly his team, including the defense.

I don't like Arians, but I don't expect Tomlin to push him away.

Tomlin has been fortunate, he has not had to play the Patriots to go to the SuperBowl

GMU Steeler
01-17-2012, 02:06 PM
Tomlin has been fortunate, he has not had to play the Patriots to go to the SuperBowl

You play who you play. Yeah we caught a break in 2008 when Brady got hurt and last year when they got eliminated by the Jets but that's on them more than it is on us. I don't agree with all of Tomlin's decisions as HC but I think he needs to get credit for making Harrison the OLB over keeping Porter. It's easy to see now that's a slam dunk decision but at the time Harrison was a 27 year old four time cut jST whose biggest note was he bodyslammed a Browns fan on Christmas eve. I think Tomlin's done a good job. Could he do better? Sure, and I think he will as he matures as a head coach.

Sixburgher
01-17-2012, 02:10 PM
Tomlin has been fortunate, he has not had to play the Patriots to go to the SuperBowl

And the fact that the Patriots failed to sack up against the Jets last season and the Steelers then beat the Jets in the AFC championship is an indictment of Tomlin's ability as a coach, how?

The penis envy of so many Steelers fans in regards to NE is beyond tiresome.

kirklandrules
01-17-2012, 02:11 PM
Tomlin has been fortunate, he has not had to play the Patriots to go to the SuperBowl

I think you meant to say:

"Tomlin has been fortunate, has has not had to be cheated out of a championship by the Patricheats.

Sorry, couldn't resist spitting in the faces of scum cheaters when I get the chance.

GMU Steeler
01-17-2012, 02:54 PM
And the fact that the Patriots failed to sack up against the Jets last season and the Steelers then beat the Jets in the AFC championship is an indictment of Tomlin's ability as a coach, how?

The penis envy of so many Steelers fans in regards to NE is beyond tiresome.

I don't get why we have the envy. I'd rather have our past 8 years than theirs. I mean yeah they have a powerful offense but they also have a mediocre D and I'm being generous there. That win by the Pats last week was their first one in the playoffs since they beat the Chargers to win the AFC Championship in the 2007 season. Not saying they're a sucky team but we need to hold our heads as fans a little higher and remember we have been in the Super Bowl three times since 2005 and won two of them. Would I like more championships? Hell yeah wouldn't we all but you're not going to win every year and unfortunately this wasn't ours. And yeah there is room for improvement. There always is. Packers who looked unstoppable need to improve too.

ricardisimo
01-17-2012, 03:09 PM
True that, I just disagree with you that he's worse than Ziegler was. But Ziegler never had Pouncey to coach either. I think Tomlin's record on his staff is mixed. And apologies for not seeing your Lebeau exemption. I kinda disagree since it's usually expected for a HC to bring his own ideas on D much like Cowher was a change from Noll's philosophy though we had already switched to the 3-4.
Kugler's had Pouncey... and nothing else. I think we can all agree he's done a nice job developing Gilbert in the meantime. We'll see how far that goes. Zeirlein on the other hand had Faneca, Colon, Marvel, Stapleton, Simmons, Kemoeatu before he sucked, Starks in his prime, etc. I could have coached those guys.
I disagree...Cowher built this team from Loser to Powerhouse...I like Coach Tomlin...alot...but until he does that he's not Cowher's match....yet...and that's not saying he won't be i hope he does...but not yet....
You do realize that you're asking Tomlin first to turn this team into a loser and then to build it back up again, right? Why? Basically people are holding it against Tomlin that his teams have never outright sucked. 9-7 was his rock-bottom. I swear Steelers fans are the most spoiled in all of sports. :doh:

BKAnthem
01-17-2012, 03:27 PM
Kugler's had Pouncey... and nothing else. I think we can all agree he's done a nice job developing Gilbert in the meantime. We'll see how far that goes. Zeirlein on the other hand had Faneca, Colon, Marvel, Stapleton, Simmons, Kemoeatu before he sucked, Starks in his prime, etc. I could have coached those guys.

You do realize that you're asking Tomlin first to turn this team into a loser and then to build it back up again, right? Why? Basically people are holding it against Tomlin that his teams have never outright sucked. 9-7 was his rock-bottom. I swear Steelers fans are the most spoiled in all of sports. :doh:

I'm not asking him to do that...my point is Cowher had to do more, he came in when the team was at a low point..... and Tomlin as much as i like and respect the man isn't there yet...give him a few more years first...Lets see how how bounces back from one of the worst losses of his career

ricardisimo
01-17-2012, 03:46 PM
I'm a big Tomlin supporter, and I can see the tangible results of his commitment to continuity and chemistry, which you find not only in his boner for the veterans, but also the inexplicable patience with Bruce Arians. What you don't see are wild ups and downs with his approach. You take the good with the bad, I guess. And yes, we can hope that he will get better over time.

Still, he might be too close to the situation at this point, and one would hope that either Art or Kevin would pull him to the curb on the Arians issue.

BKAnthem
01-17-2012, 03:48 PM
I'm a big Tomlin supporter, and I can see the tangible results of his commitment to continuity and chemistry, which you find not only in his boner for the veterans, but also the inexplicable patience with Bruce Arians. What you don't see are wild ups and downs with his approach. You take the good with the bad, I guess. And yes, we can hope that he will get better over time.

Still, he might be too close to the situation at this point, and one would hope that either Art or Kevin would pull him to the curb on the Arians issue.

Amen to that bro...

Rockonsteel
01-17-2012, 04:14 PM
You can say what you want, but Tomlin's already matched everything Cowher ever did for this team but Making two Super Bowl's, and winning one. You can say he inherited this team from Cowher, but the team that made the Super Bowl last year was hardly his team, including the defense.

I don't like Arians, but I don't expect Tomlin to push him away.

Just for the sake of argument, Cowher built championshiop contenders with some pretty mediocre QBs. He lost a bunch of AFCC games, as we all know, but he did get the team there nonetheless. When he got his hands on a franchise QB, he went 15-1 Ben's rookie season, and won the SB Ben's 2nd year.

To be fair, Tomlin also won a SB in year 2 two, but it was Ben's 5th year by then, and he had already won a ring. But, a large part of the team that won the SB was still in place. Tomlin deserve his props for getting it done, but there is still that elephant in the room.

To be honest, though. Cowher and Tomlin are both ringless, IMO, if the Steelers hadn't lucked into Big Ben. I think Cowher gets the edge because he built the foundation for this thing. Tomlin took over the house, and did some minor renovations. Just some more food for the debate.

Rockon

tanda10506
01-17-2012, 04:27 PM
I'm a big Tomlin supporter, and I can see the tangible results of his commitment to continuity and chemistry, which you find not only in his boner for the veterans, but also the inexplicable patience with Bruce Arians. What you don't see are wild ups and downs with his approach. You take the good with the bad, I guess. And yes, we can hope that he will get better over time.

Still, he might be too close to the situation at this point, and one would hope that either Art or Kevin would pull him to the curb on the Arians issue.

This^

I do like Tomlin but watching other playoff teams does point out his flaws. I don't care if Arians calls the offense or LeBeau calls the defense, bottom line is he is the head coach. Everything LeBeau and Arians does, he is ultimately responsible for and he has the ability to change what he doesn't agree with. We go into game after game with an offensive game plan that is built "in general", that doesn't attack the weak points of any team nor does it protect us from there strong points. I don't have many complaints about LeBeau but the one I do have is that it doesn't matter how bad he gets burnt all game, the game plan stays the same. He didn't make any in game adjustments in the Broncos game, last year when the Pats kicked the hell out of us all first half we came out with the same plan in the second half, it's ridiculous. LeBeau comes up with some great plans like the one against the Pats this year, but when it's not working, STOP! Being that Tomlin is the HEAD coach he is responsible for that too. I don't expect Tomlin to just take the reins and start making all the calls or anything like that, that's what coordinators are for, but we would have a lot less people thinking we get out coached if Tomlin simply goes to Arians and says: "This offense has been putrid, start planning to take advantage of the other teams weaknesses, and it is possible to pass the ball past the line of scrimmage but not 50 yards down field. Let's make those changes, good talk." How hard is that? When we played Baltimore the 2nd time in Pittsburgh and we gave Flacco the 10 yard cushions we used to give to Brady, and got dinked and dunked ALL GAME, what would have been so hard about going over to LeBeau and saying, "let's change it up". I know somebody will make a sarcastic comment: "oh it's so easy... why not have the popcorn salesman in the stand do it then", but the bottom line is you see Jim Harbaugh, Tom Coughlin, and Bill Belicheck doing it all the time. He's always talking about "we accept responsibility for the loss" but he doesn't take responsibility for what the coaching staff puts out, unless he actually thinks what Arians is putting out is good, and actually thinks we should stick to the same defensive game plan during a blow out. I'm not whining, and as I mentioned I like Tomlin and as it stands I do believe he has the POTENTIAL to be a great coach, but the necessary changes are so obvious that it is frustrating to see him not make them.

kirklandrules
01-17-2012, 05:00 PM
I disagree...Cowher built this team from Loser to Powerhouse...I like Coach Tomlin...alot...but until he does that he's not Cowher's match....yet...and that's not saying he won't be i hope he does...but not yet....

But Tomlin did take a team that had an 8-8 record (Cowher's last year) and took them back to the playoffs in his first year and SB win in his second.

Tomlin's 5 seasons:
30 games over .500
1 Championship
2 Conference Championships
4 Division Titles
68.8 win %

Cowher 15 seasons:
59 games over .500
1 Championship
2 Conference Championships
9 Division Titles
62.3 win %

I think based on the records/stats Tomlin, his coaches and the Steelers FO have done a fine job since Cowher departed.

IMO Lebeau, Mitchelle, Butler are awesome ... fans can complain about schemes, players, specific games, but it's nice to take for granted that these coaches are bringing a top defense year in and year out.

I'm not a huge fan of Arians. However, I have to admit that the Steelers most likely would not have won the SB against the Cards if it hadn't been for his pass philosophy that year. No way a Cowher team marches down the field and scores like that ... at least they never did.

So I'm not sure where the complaint is. :noidea:

BKAnthem
01-17-2012, 05:31 PM
But Tomlin did take a team that had an 8-8 record (Cowher's last year) and took them back to the playoffs in his first year and SB win in his second.

Tomlin's 5 seasons:
30 games over .500
1 Championship
2 Conference Championships
4 Division Titles
68.8 win %

Cowher 15 seasons:
59 games over .500
1 Championship
2 Conference Championships
9 Division Titles
62.3 win %

I think based on the records/stats Tomlin, his coaches and the Steelers FO have done a fine job since Cowher departed.

IMO Lebeau, Mitchelle, Butler are awesome ... fans can complain about schemes, players, specific games, but it's nice to take for granted that these coaches are bringing a top defense year in and year out.

I'm not a huge fan of Arians. However, I have to admit that the Steelers most likely would not have won the SB against the Cards if it hadn't been for his pass philosophy that year. No way a Cowher team marches down the field and scores like that ... at least they never did.

So I'm not sure where the complaint is. :noidea:

Well that's a what if we'll never know, because who's to say the Steelers Running Game wouldn't have pounded Az thus controlling the clock and making the game not as close as it was... see how that works?

OX1947
01-17-2012, 05:36 PM
But Tomlin did take a team that had an 8-8 record (Cowher's last year) and took them back to the playoffs in his first year and SB win in his second.

Tomlin's 5 seasons:
30 games over .500
1 Championship
2 Conference Championships
4 Division Titles
68.8 win %

Cowher 15 seasons:
59 games over .500
1 Championship
2 Conference Championships
9 Division Titles
62.3 win %

I think based on the records/stats Tomlin, his coaches and the Steelers FO have done a fine job since Cowher departed.

IMO Lebeau, Mitchelle, Butler are awesome ... fans can complain about schemes, players, specific games, but it's nice to take for granted that these coaches are bringing a top defense year in and year out.

I'm not a huge fan of Arians. However, I have to admit that the Steelers most likely would not have won the SB against the Cards if it hadn't been for his pass philosophy that year. No way a Cowher team marches down the field and scores like that ... at least they never did.

So I'm not sure where the complaint is. :noidea:

Comparing Cowher and Tomlin is one of the dumbest things you can do. Bill Cowher went to AFC title games, Super Bowl's, playoffs, won division titles with Neil O'Donnell, Mike Tomzach, Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddox his first 12 years. Think about that for a second.

As far as Cowher not driving down the field? See above.

ItalianSteelersFan178443
01-17-2012, 05:53 PM
How is Tomlin a poor Judge of Coaching Talent? Guys he has brought us to 2 Super Bowls, if I am sure Bill Cowher took us to 2 as well and they were 10 years apart and not 3 like Tomlin. He has improved the defense because is also a defensive guy. He and LeBeau made the best defense in football and yes he made a bonehead move in promoting Arians to OC, but he is still a young coach (39)! He will be with this team for a very long time, because he is a smart man, the players absolutely play hard for him, and they love him. I would pick him over any other coach in the league because he is a players coach and will have your back all the time. People complain that he is not tough on the sideline, but neither is Bill Beleshit and he is considered the best all-time even though Robert Kraft is a genius in signing nobodies to long-term deals. I do think that Tomlin needs to improve on many things, but it is not because he is bad, it is because he wants to be the greatest. I am pretty ashamed that Steelers fans think Tomlin is a bad Judge of Coaching Talent and if you call yourself a "Die Hard" then you need to appreciate what he has done for us. He gave us LaMar Woodley, Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, and many other young players on the team. He was a great coaching sign and he will continue to bring us to the playoffs and he will end up with multiple Super Bowl Championships

lipps83
01-17-2012, 06:09 PM
I thought Carnell Lake was a great hire for the Steelers.

tanda10506
01-17-2012, 06:11 PM
How is Tomlin a poor Judge of Coaching Talent?

By saying he's a poor judgement of coaching talent doesn't mean he himself is a bad coach, it means that the rest of the coaching staff on the team is not very good yet he has them on the team. He has pretty good judgement on player talent, but Arians is horrible, and the case could be made that our QB coach and O line coach are not that good either, yet Tomlin keeps them. That's what was meant, not that Tomlin is a bad coach in general.

ItalianSteelersFan178443
01-17-2012, 06:43 PM
By saying he's a poor judgement of coaching talent doesn't mean he himself is a bad coach, it means that the rest of the coaching staff on the team is not very good yet he has them on the team. He has pretty good judgement on player talent, but Arians is horrible, and the case could be made that our QB coach and O line coach are not that good either, yet Tomlin keeps them. That's what was meant, not that Tomlin is a bad coach in general.

Oh okay, just a misunderstanding. I still think Tomlin sees the better in people and hopes for the best of them, thats why he continues to go with Arians and Kugler. He feels that his coaches are the best. And Tomlin does not have full control of his coaching staff either; the Rooney's have the final say on who goes and who says and they are confident in all the coaches. I just hope Kirby Wilson can make a full and healthy recovery as soon as possible, but I just hope he gets healthy. Wilson looks like he will be the next OC and he will bring back the running back. Also with Keith Butler the next DC our team looks like it will be a force for a long time. Young Coaches, Young Money WR's, and a new Young Line, with an upcoming Young Defense it is going to be scary.

tanda10506
01-17-2012, 06:59 PM
Oh okay, just a misunderstanding. I still think Tomlin sees the better in people and hopes for the best of them, thats why he continues to go with Arians and Kugler. He feels that his coaches are the best. And Tomlin does not have full control of his coaching staff either; the Rooney's have the final say on who goes and who says and they are confident in all the coaches. I just hope Kirby Wilson can make a full and healthy recovery as soon as possible, but I just hope he gets healthy. Wilson looks like he will be the next OC and he will bring back the running back. Also with Keith Butler the next DC our team looks like it will be a force for a long time. Young Coaches, Young Money WR's, and a new Young Line, with an upcoming Young Defense it is going to be scary.

If you look at the Rooney interview today, I think it's safe to say that he is at least unhappy with Arians, as is everybody. Maybe Tomlin does see the better in people and hopes the best will come out, but when it doesn't come out for years, it's time to make a change. I agree, if Wilson becomes our new OC, I think we will at least get back to running the ball a decent amount of times. With Ben and these WR's we still will probably stay a passing team, but more like 60-40 not the 90-10 ratio we run now. I don't know much about Butler so I haven't commented on him nor will I yet, but I don't think we have coaching problems on the defensive side. The offensive side is mediocre at best, with Wilson possibly being the exception and Arians being the obvious.

Sixburgher
01-17-2012, 07:09 PM
I agree, if Wilson becomes our new OC, I think we will at least get back to running the ball a decent amount of times. With Ben and these WR's we still will probably stay a passing team, but more like 60-40 not the 90-10 ratio we run now.

Hyperbole much? Try 55/45 (539 passes/434 rushes).

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2011.htm

ricardisimo
01-17-2012, 08:01 PM
Hyperbole much? Try 55/45 (539 passes/434 rushes).

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2011.htm
Not that it makes a world of difference, but passing attempts do not include sacks, which are of course pass plays. Obviously, it might be questionable to subtract out Ben's scrambles on busted pass plays from the rush attempts. But if and when you can do that math reliably, you have more or less a 60/40 split for the year. It would have been even more dramatic had Ben not gotten hurt, and had the Seattle and St. Louis games not been blowouts.

Not 90-10, but not balanced.

Sixburger: Sorry, but I accidentally hit "Edit" instead of "Quote" to reply. Didn't mean to change your post. Still working out these mod powers.

zcoop
01-17-2012, 08:39 PM
Kugler's had Pouncey... and nothing else. I think we can all agree he's done a nice job developing Gilbert in the meantime. We'll see how far that goes. Zeirlein on the other hand had Faneca, Colon, Marvel, Stapleton, Simmons, Kemoeatu before he sucked, Starks in his prime, etc. I could have coached those guys.

You do realize that you're asking Tomlin first to turn this team into a loser and then to build it back up again, right? Why? Basically people are holding it against Tomlin that his teams have never outright sucked. 9-7 was his rock-bottom. I swear Steelers fans are the most spoiled in all of sports. :doh:

Ditto that, brother can't catch a break. :noidea:

BKAnthem
01-17-2012, 09:03 PM
Oh okay, just a misunderstanding. I still think Tomlin sees the better in people and hopes for the best of them, thats why he continues to go with Arians and Kugler. He feels that his coaches are the best. And Tomlin does not have full control of his coaching staff either; the Rooney's have the final say on who goes and who says and they are confident in all the coaches. I just hope Kirby Wilson can make a full and healthy recovery as soon as possible, but I just hope he gets healthy. Wilson looks like he will be the next OC and he will bring back the running back. Also with Keith Butler the next DC our team looks like it will be a force for a long time. Young Coaches, Young Money WR's, and a new Young Line, with an upcoming Young Defense it is going to be scary.

Yeah, I have and will never call Tomlin a bad coach...he isn't but some of his choices in coaches are are a little frustrating...And as for next OC , i've been a fan of Eagles OC Marty Mornweig's play calling, maybe raid his staff for QB coach Doug Pederson...But this all just talk unless Arians is actually let go or retires, ala Mike Martz...

60_MINUTES
01-17-2012, 10:01 PM
Bill? Is that you? No it can't be, your not spitting all over the place. So, if your not Cowher, how could you possibly know anything in which you just said? You don't. Cowher got his ring and left.



cowher got his ring and left???? his wife was dieing with cancer and she wanted to go home to live her last years...Cowher and the Rooneys out of respect for his wife kept it to themselves unitl she passed... Im sure it was the hardest thing he ever had to do in his life but it was the right choice...

however he had to walk away from a young stud QB BEN ... and some stars that where right in the prime of it... yes he lost the next year most people do.. however when you know your gonna lose your wife and you know the decesion your gonna hve to make Im sure his mind was other places like we saw many times on the sideline...


as far as this article goes... its true.. Bill run the team.. you did your job or was gone... yes he brought BA in but as WR coach... Im pretty sure he wouldnt have stayed this long doing what he does... Mike does need to step up.. at this point he has been nothing but a coat tail rider... BEN playing school yard ball winning games while Dick Lebeau is running the exact same D as when cowher was here.. Hell just about anyone on this board could have done the things Tomlin has done so far... Its time for him to step up and coach the team.. make the moves that need to be made and put his stamp on this team... it remains to be seen how Tomlins coaching really will be.. so far he won with Cowhers boys.. next year it will be mostly Tomlins show.. I think it looks good but we shall see.. either way he needs to move on from BA... and after reading what Rooney said today... he may want to move on from BA pretty quick before he doesnt have a job either

tanda10506
01-17-2012, 10:31 PM
I was exaggerating with 90-10, I knew it wasn't that bad, but it seems like it. As far as passing goes though, does that number include all passes or forward passes? Seriously, I'm not exaggerating with this, we tend to throw about 5 passes a game behind the line of scrimmage. You know, those one's that Suggs likes so much. I'm not sure exactly how stats are kept, but isn't it considered a run if it's a backwards pass?

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-18-2012, 01:22 AM
I don't think it is even Tomlin's call who his assistant coach's are-- don't the owners and Kevin Colbert make all the personnel decisions (albeit with some input from Tomlin, I am sure)?

Also, I have to wonder sometimes how many of the changes in philosophy (shift to pass-first offense, more control to Big Ben, less emphasis on runing the ball, etc.) that old-school Steelers fans complain about are actualy Mike Tomlin's doing? What folks forget about, is that at the same time we changed head coaches, the Steelers fraqnchise also went through some major onwership overhauls, and the veritable Mr. Rooney left town to be the ambassador to Ireland.

These are NOT your "daddy's Steelers of the 1970's" anymore, these are Dan Rooney Jr.'s Steelers.....some of the blame that gets heaped on Mike Tomlin needs to be shared with our new ownership-- for doing things like:

1) giving huge contracts to aging superstars (Polamalu, Big Ben, Harrison, Woodley, Timmons). When you do so, you are mortgaging your future to a degree. We departed from the Steeler's normal method of building teams through the draft, and now the birds are coming home to roost.

2) picking up big name free agents (like the Hotel).

3) not getting rid of Bruce Arians or demoting him to some other offensive assistant position.

tony hipchest
01-18-2012, 01:46 AM
1) giving huge contracts to aging superstars (Polamalu, Big Ben, Harrison, Woodley, Timmons). When you do so, you are mortgaging your future to a degree. .youre forgetting ike taylor.

do you even know how old ben, woodley, and timmons are when they got their new contracts extended BEFORE their rookie contracts expired?

troy and james are defensive MVP and have more rings and SB appearances than any other safety or OLB in the league.

they are also cornerstones of the leagues most dominant defense since 2005.

ricardisimo
01-18-2012, 02:21 AM
Ben, Woodley and Timmons are "aging superstars"? :huh:

Bayz101
01-18-2012, 02:55 AM
Timmons is 25, Woodley's 27. Ben and Troy are 30, and Harrison is 33. If Timmons and Woodley are "Aging superstars", i'm confused.

ricardisimo
01-18-2012, 03:26 AM
I don't think it is even Tomlin's call who his assistant coach's are-- don't the owners and Kevin Colbert make all the personnel decisions (albeit with some input from Tomlin, I am sure)?
All of the staffing decisions are Tomlin's (although I'm sure Art can and does make his weight felt from time to time.) Personnel is Colbert, with full cooperation and input from Tomlin.
Also, I have to wonder sometimes how many of the changes in philosophy (shift to pass-first offense, more control to Big Ben, less emphasis on runing the ball, etc.) that old-school Steelers fans complain about are actualy Mike Tomlin's doing? What folks forget about, is that at the same time we changed head coaches, the Steelers fraqnchise also went through some major onwership overhauls, and the veritable Mr. Rooney left town to be the ambassador to Ireland.
Tomlin is a hands-off coach, the exact opposite of Belicheat. I think he knows that people who own their work invest in it... most of the time, that is. You take the good with the bad, anyhow.
These are NOT your "daddy's Steelers of the 1970's" anymore, these are Dan Rooney Jr.'s Steelers.....some of the blame that gets heaped on Mike Tomlin needs to be shared with our new ownership-- for doing things like:
Art Rooney II
1) giving huge contracts to aging superstars (Polamalu, Big Ben, Harrison, Woodley, Timmons). When you do so, you are mortgaging your future to a degree. We departed from the Steeler's normal method of building teams through the draft, and now the birds are coming home to roost.
I already asked, but WTF? :wtf:
2) picking up big name free agents (like the Hotel).
Huh? Signing Flozell was a mistake? Am I sniffing glue again? :huh:
3) not getting rid of Bruce Arians or demoting him to some other offensive assistant position.
OK, now you are starting to re-enter reality. Still, Tomlin's stance has always been continuity and chemistry, in this case between his franchise QB and the OC. Even I - who despise all that Bruce Arians stands for - get it. Again, you have to take the good with the bad... just hopefully not for much longer.

ItalianSteelersFan178443
01-18-2012, 09:30 AM
These are NOT your "daddy's Steelers of the 1970's" anymore, these are Dan Rooney Jr.'s Steelers.....some of the blame that gets heaped on Mike Tomlin needs to be shared with our new ownership-- for doing things like:

1) giving huge contracts to aging superstars (Polamalu, Big Ben, Harrison, Woodley, Timmons). When you do so, you are mortgaging your future to a degree. We departed from the Steeler's normal method of building teams through the draft, and now the birds are coming home to roost.

2) picking up big name free agents (like the Hotel).

3) not getting rid of Bruce Arians or demoting him to some other offensive assistant position.[/QUOTE]


Every team is different now, it is a pass-happy league because of Goodell's rules for one. Goodell basically stated that you cant touch a QB until he retires and that you cant tackle a WR until he gets in the end zone. The Steelers have had to adjust to the league just as much as any run-first team (Falcons, Giants, Ravens, Bengals, Jets, and Titans). Its just the name of the game.

I agree that we have been giving huge contracts out like Goodell gives fines, but its not like the players we are giving them to are under performing as soon as they get the money. Troy had what some people called a "down year" because his INT and FFUM weren't up, but he made 90 tackles and was more into actual coverage this season. Harrison also had a "down year" but injuries and Goodell's rules were part of that. Woodley and his hamstring are going to be back next season and it is going to be scary what Woodley can do while he is rich and healthy. Timmons is going to a stud very soon, many people want him to blitz more, but that is not his style, he is a run stopper and coverage guy. He can cover the best TE's in the league above-par and rarely misses tackles. Big Ben is our franchise QB he is supposed to get a huge contract (Peyton Manning is 36 and is going to be owed 28mill next season). Ike Taylor proved all season long that he deserved that contract extension, I know a lot of fans want the Steelers to void the contract after his turrble performance against Denver, but that was his only bad game of the year and it didn't help that our defensive gameplan was junk. All these players deserved extensions, but yes it is finally catching up to us that we might have given some of the guys extensions to quick (not because they don't deserve it, but we are 25mill over the cap).

As for the Flozell signing, it seemed terrible at first because he led the league in offensive penalites 3 years running, but he was easily our best OL that season and had the least amount of penalties on the OL (Kemo was #1, shocker right). I am glad that they did not sign Adams this off-season just because lightening does not strike twice and he was going to be 37. Gilbert proved that he can be a great OL in this league and though he may not be back at RT next season he will most likely be pushed to RG, but Ben will not have to worry about pressure coming from the right-side with Colon and Gilbert blocking.

Arians sucks so bad, but Tomlin believes in his guys, I hope he retires once I post this, but the fact is that he will most likely have to completely run this offense to the ground before he gets fired. (because face it, Arians is telling Ben where to throw, Ben does need to work on the decision making still) or he will retire