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former RB
01-19-2012, 11:51 PM
I'm surprized by the amount of Ariens hate around here. My brother used to feel the same way, he used to get on my nerves with his hatred for Ariens. One day I told him "listen little brother, you just don't understand what you are seeing when you watch football." My little brother never played. I played from the age of 12 to 22, when I blew out my knee.

I explained to my brother that you can't blame the OC when the QB causes more than 50% of the pass plays to break down and turn into chaos.

Ben isn't a rhythm pocket passer, and he isn't an accurate passer. Ben gets the ball close, and the reciever has to adjust to the ball.
Ben needs a big window. Or lots of time.

Ben breaks the play down as soon as he scrambles. Offensive linemen hate to block for Ben because they don't have eyes on the back of their heads. They can't block for him if they don't know where he is.

Ariens tries to compensate for Bens lack of ability by designing short pass plays that are easy to hit.

My only issue with Ariens, is that by doing that, he takes the "attack" out of the offense.
Offense means "Attack". Ariens should design more plays that have design rollouts and waggles. That way, the OL knows where Ben is without seeing him, and Ben can buy the time to look for a big window.

Ariens isn't to blame for the offensive woes, Ben is. Ariens can't make Ben stay in the pocket and pull the trigger. Ariens makes the problem worse, only to the degree that he designs too many short pass plays to accomodate Bens inablity to throw accurate long balls THEREFORE ARIENS AND THE OFFENSE IS PREDICTABLE.

Ben can't throw a good deep ball, so teams don't have to sit in 2-deep and blitz. They can bring their safetys up and get them involved in the run defense, and not worry about corners getting beat deep because Ben just can't make the deep throw.

Nowadays, my brother better understands that , with Ben, the play you see, often isn't the play that was called, or designed. So, he doesn't blame the OC.

So, the question is the mystery: What would happen if Ben just threw on rhythm and ran the play as called?What would happen if he just threw through the window presented? Would the OL look better and be happier if Ben did what the rest of the "PRO Quarterbacks" do , and drop back and get rid of the ball?

FanSince72
01-20-2012, 12:03 AM
I'm surprized by the amount of Ariens hate around here. My brother used to feel the same way, he used to get on my nerves with his hatred for Ariens. One day I told him "listenlittle brother, you just don't understand what you are seeing when you watch football." My little brother never played. I played from the age of 12 to 22, when I blew out my knee.

I explained to my brother that you can't blame the OC when the QB causes more than 50% of the pass plays to break down and turn into chaos.

Ben isn't a rhythm pocket passer, and he isn't an accurate passer. Ben gets the ball close, and the reciever has to adjust to the ball.
Ben needs a big window. Or lots of time.

Ben breaks the play down as soon as he scrambles. Offensive linemen hate to block for Ben because they don't have eyes on the back of their heads. They can't block for him if they don't know where he is.

Ariens tries to compensate for Bens lack of ability by designing short pass plays that are easy to hit.

My only issue with Ariens, is that by doing that, he takes the "attack" out of the offense.
Offense means "Attack". Ariens should design more plays that have design rollouts and waggles. That way, the OL knws where Ben is without seeing him, and Ben can buy the time to look for a big window.

Ariens isn't o blame for the offensive woes, Ben is. Ariens can't make Ben stay in the pocket and pull the trigger. Ariens makes the problem wrose, only to the degree that he designs too many short pass plays to accomodate Bens inablity to throw accurate long balls THEREFORE ARIENS AND THE OFFENSE IS PREDICTABLE.

Ben can't throw a good deep ball, so teams don't have to sit in 2-deep and blitz. They can bring their safetys up and get them involved in the run defense, and not worry about corners getting beat deep because Ben just can't make the deep throw.

Thank You!

I'm glad that SOMEONE sees this!
In fact, I'd go as far as to say that Ben's random scrambling is a big part of why we have so many injuries in the O-line. All of that "extra" blocking takes its toll especially when getting hit while turning around to see where Ben is.

I've said that Arians is trying to work with Ben's skill-set and with his preference for moving around, but it's not easy to plan for movement that is largely unplanned. It's also true about Ben's lack of a deep ball. That is his Achilles heel and the main reason why we don't "go deep". Ben's wheelhouse is up to about 30 yards or so. In that range he's deadly, but anything longer is iffy at best.

His scrambling ability is his best asset but it's also the hardest thing in the world to game-plan around and if the idea is to let him continue to do that, then I don't think there's an OC in the world who could do much better.

tony hipchest
01-20-2012, 12:03 AM
Offense means "Attack". Ariens should design more plays that have design rollouts and waggles. That way, the OL knws where Ben is without seeing him, and Ben can buy the time to look for a big window.


:applaudit:

exactly!!!! ben is perfectly built for that! mike shanahan would absolutely LOVE a qb like ben.

the problem with arians is that he refuses to design those plays because he actually believes he is tricking the rest of the NFL by NOT doing what obviously should be done.

hes a genius i tell ya! :muhaha:

so we should just trade ben to washington and find a qb who is more compatable with arians geniusness.

ricardisimo
01-20-2012, 12:12 AM
I got into this with someone else in another thread, and I'm certainly willing to get into it here: Let's assume that you are absolutely right, and the problem is Ben. How and why does that make you feel any better about Bruce Arians? I just don't get it.

TRH
01-20-2012, 12:13 AM
I'm surprized by the amount of Ariens hate around here. My brother used to feel the same way, he used to get on my nerves with his hatred for Ariens. One day I told him "listen little brother, you just don't understand what you are seeing when you watch football." My little brother never played. I played from the age of 12 to 22, when I blew out my knee.

I explained to my brother that you can't blame the OC when the QB causes more than 50% of the pass plays to break down and turn into chaos.

Ben isn't a rhythm pocket passer, and he isn't an accurate passer. Ben gets the ball close, and the reciever has to adjust to the ball.
Ben needs a big window. Or lots of time.

Ben breaks the play down as soon as he scrambles. Offensive linemen hate to block for Ben because they don't have eyes on the back of their heads. They can't block for him if they don't know where he is.
Ariens tries to compensate for Bens lack of ability by designing short pass plays that are easy to hit. My only issue with Ariens, is that by doing that, he takes the "attack" out of the offense.
Offense means "Attack". Ariens should design more plays that have design rollouts and waggles. That way, the OL knows where Ben is without seeing him, and Ben can buy the time to look for a big window.

Ariens isn't to blame for the offensive woes, Ben is. Ariens can't make Ben stay in the pocket and pull the trigger. Ariens makes the problem worse, only to the degree that he designs too many short pass plays to accomodate Bens inablity to throw accurate long balls THEREFORE ARIENS AND THE OFFENSE IS PREDICTABLE.

Ben can't throw a good deep ball, so teams don't have to sit in 2-deep and blitz. They can bring their safetys up and get them involved in the run defense, and not worry about corners getting beat deep because Ben just can't make the deep throw.

Nowadays, my brother better understands that , with Ben, the play you see, often isn't the play that was called, or designed. So, he doesn't blame the OC.

So, the question is the mystery: What would happen if Ben just threw on rhythm and ran the play as called?What would happen if he just threw through the window presented? Would the OL look better and be happier if Ben did what the rest of the "PRO Quarterbacks" do , and drop back and get rid of the ball?


....time and time and time and time again this year Ben can't stand in the pocket because our OL is getting mauled, manhandled, and mowed down in 2 seconds and they're all over him. Therefore, he HAS to extend the play (if possible).
Arians is NOT designing short pass plays except for that damned bubble screen. The short slant passes that could be designed...are not being designed.
The more i've looked at this and studied our offense this week, the less i see Ben is the one at fault. It's the playbook and our OL for the most part.

former RB
01-20-2012, 12:14 AM
:applaudit:

exactly!!!! ben is perfectly built for that! mike shanahan would absolutely LOVE a qb like ben.

the problem with arians is that he refuses to design those plays because he actually believes he is tricking the rest of the NFL by NOT doing what obviously should be done.

hes a genius i tell ya! :muhaha:

so we should just trade ben to washington and find a qb who is more compatable with arians geniusness.

Of course Shannahan would love a guy like Ben. He had Elway. But you'll remember that Elway learned to stay in the pocket and take the window that was presented to him. It took him about 10 years to learn that in the NFL you only get little or no window to get the ball into your recievers hands.
And Elway and Shannahan didn't get a lombardi until Terrell Davis showed up.!!

That could happen in the Burg if we can get Taiwan Jones.

And I DID mention that Ariens doesn't design those rollouts and waggles, THEREBY TAKING THE "ATTACK" out of "OFFENSE".

There is two ways to handle this problem. Keep trying to "make" Ben into a pocket rhythm passer, or redesign the play schemes to take advantage of Bens strengths.

Somebody, probably Tomlin, is insisting on Ben trying to become a prototype, when he isn't now, nor will he ever be.
Elway made the transition after 10 years in the league. He stayed in the pocket and threw on rhythm, but he was inaccurate as hell. Shannon sharpe made Elway look good by catching so many of Elways 40 yard frozen ropes.

60_MINUTES
01-20-2012, 12:18 AM
I'm surprized by the amount of Ariens hate around here. My brother used to feel the same way, he used to get on my nerves with his hatred for Ariens. One day I told him "listen little brother, you just don't understand what you are seeing when you watch football." My little brother never played. I played from the age of 12 to 22, when I blew out my knee.

I explained to my brother that you can't blame the OC when the QB causes more than 50% of the pass plays to break down and turn into chaos.

Ben isn't a rhythm pocket passer, and he isn't an accurate passer. Ben gets the ball close, and the reciever has to adjust to the ball.
Ben needs a big window. Or lots of time.

Ben breaks the play down as soon as he scrambles. Offensive linemen hate to block for Ben because they don't have eyes on the back of their heads. They can't block for him if they don't know where he is.


Ariens tries to compensate for Bens lack of ability by designing short pass plays that are easy to hit.

My only issue with Ariens, is that by doing that, he takes the "attack" out of the offense.
Offense means "Attack". Ariens should design more plays that have design rollouts and waggles. That way, the OL knows where Ben is without seeing him, and Ben can buy the time to look for a big window.

Ariens isn't to blame for the offensive woes, Ben is. Ariens can't make Ben stay in the pocket and pull the trigger. Ariens makes the problem worse, only to the degree that he designs too many short pass plays to accomodate Bens inablity to throw accurate long balls THEREFORE ARIENS AND THE OFFENSE IS PREDICTABLE.

Ben can't throw a good deep ball, so teams don't have to sit in 2-deep and blitz. They can bring their safetys up and get them involved in the run defense, and not worry about corners getting beat deep because Ben just can't make the deep throw.

Nowadays, my brother better understands that , with Ben, the play you see, often isn't the play that was called, or designed. So, he doesn't blame the OC.

So, the question is the mystery: What would happen if Ben just threw on rhythm and ran the play as called?What would happen if he just threw through the window presented? Would the OL look better and be happier if Ben did what the rest of the "PRO Quarterbacks" do , and drop back and get rid of the ball?




I played QB my whole life from 5 til 18 and then some city league shit.. I didnt blow out my knee I just wasnt good enough to go anywhere else.. I was pretty good though but just not good enough.. anyway your dead wrong... sorry

yes BEN is a little different which I like.. its what makes him special.. he has 2 superbowl wins and throws for over 4000 yards so bottom line is he gets it done most times... I got one simple question for you.. Do you have DVR?? I watch and record every game like most steeler fans.. then during the week I re watch it for fun and slow motion many of the plays... the D is running our routes most times.. which are 75 percent 20 yard flags and post patterns... We never isolate Miller on their LB.. .like teams do to us..BEN drops back looks for his first read.. and sometimes his second,,, then he takes off.. the first and second read is hardly ever open that my friend is because of O coord... plain and simple its on tape as Tomlin likes to say.. all you got to do is watch it. On top of that 25 percent of the time he does even have time to look for his 1st or second read because of the line getting their ass kicked.

Anyway BEN does hold the ball to try for big plays,, and yes he could get a little better with accurate timing passes.. however make no mistake about it his recievers are covered the majority of the time.. With our Talent at WR there is no way in hell that should happen.. also with our team there is no way in hell we should get matchup problems for the D.. but we never seem to get them... Id like to have a Dollar for every time Timmons is running after a TE up the seam.. hell sometimes he is even on the slot guy... also james farriors old ass is always running behind some RB... thats called coaching O coord doing their job... We never and I mean never get those things..
We never hardly use end arounds... although the one time we use it a game it gets big yards or at least good gains.
we never use the waggle, although BEN is a very mobile QB that kills teams when hes outside the pocket
we cant run screens cause this o coord cant design them.... we suck at them.. although they are a good tool for teams that keep bringing the house like the ravens do to us.
we do however call one good game about every 5.. like we did against the pats.. that was a well thought out game plan which burned their ass... but we dont back many of those games up

bottom line bud pop the tape in and watch the routes.. I havea blast breaking the film down you will see it plain as day.. BEN cant throw in rythem when the D is sitting on the route

TRH
01-20-2012, 12:18 AM
you're also forgetting that other QB's such as Brady and his OC, utilize their tight ends, almost to obsession. This free's up other receivers, allowing Brady a better quick read.

We would have to change our playbook to accomodate this (which i would love and think we should immediately).
Ben could be a more elite "pocket" passer without question....but the scheme around him needs a redesign. It's an impossibility in this type of coached offense.

former RB
01-20-2012, 12:20 AM
I got into this with someone else in another thread, and I'm certainly willing to get into it here: Let's assume that you are absolutely right, and the problem is Ben. How and why does that make you feel any better about Bruce Arians? I just don't get it.

If I tell everybody we're going to have spaghetti, and I send you to the store to get the ingredients, and you come back with steak. Who's fault is it that we aren't going to have spaghetti? Your or mine?

What if the steelers would be putting 40 points a game on the board if Ben would just bring back the freakin spaghetti! We don't know how good an OC Ariens is if his QB won't run the designed and called play.

Does that help?

MasterOfPuppets
01-20-2012, 12:21 AM
Ariens tries to compensate for Bens lack of ability by designing short pass plays that are easy to hit.

somebody doesn't know what they are watching but it ain't your brother.....
did you watch the NE game ? ben shredded them with THE SHORT passing game that brady always shreds the steelers with. arians apparently tossed that playbook right after the game , because we never seen that gameplan since.

60_MINUTES
01-20-2012, 12:27 AM
If I tell everybody we're going to have spaghetti, and I send you to the store to get the ingredients, and you come back with steak. Who's fault is it that we aren't going to have spaghetti? Your or mine?

What if the steelers would be putting 40 points a game on the board if Ben would just bring back the freakin spaghetti! We don't know how good an OC Ariens is if his QB won't run the designed and called play.

Does that help?



We dont know what kind of OC ariens is... well BEN is a Superbowl Champ 2 times.. he did one of them without BA.. as well as the fact the scoring O was better that year with out BA running it.. add to it we now have the best WR in maybe the history of our team and we finished in the bottom of the league.. Not to mention.. BA has no one what so ever calling or even talking about him being a coach anywhere else.. Everyone elses O coord are being talked about but not ours.. I guess the whole league is wrong..


Like I said in my other post just watch the tape man.. all you got to do is watch the first quarter of any loss and see the patterns and find me someone that is open.. hell most of the time the D is in a zone and we run our patterns right into where the D is sitting in the zone.. its funny but its really not:banging:

ricardisimo
01-20-2012, 12:27 AM
If I tell everybody we're going to have spaghetti, and I send you to the store to get the ingredients, and you come back with steak. Who's fault is it that we aren't going to have spaghetti? Your or mine?

What if the steelers would be putting 40 points a game on the board if Ben would just bring back the freakin spaghetti! We don't know how good an OC Ariens is if his QB won't run the designed and called play.

Does that help?
So you send me to the store 16 times to get spaghetti, and fifteen times I come back with steak... who's responsible now? You're not getting the question. Let's assume you are absolutely right. Why would you feel better about Arians because of that?

ricardisimo
01-20-2012, 12:29 AM
We dont know what kind of OC ariens is... well BEN is a Superbowl Champ 2 times.. he did one of them without BA.. as well as the fact the scoring O was better that year with out BA running it.. add to it we now have the best WR in maybe the history of our team and we finished in the bottom of the league.. Not to mention.. BA has no one what so ever calling or even talking about him being a coach anywhere else.. Everyone elses O coord are being talked about but not ours.. I guess the whole league is wrong..


Like I said in my other post just watch the tape man.. all you got to do is watch the first quarter of any loss and see the patterns and find me someone that is open.. hell most of the time the D is in a zone and we run our patterns right into where the D is sitting in the zone.. its funny but its really not:banging:
No. I won't even allow this in a hypothetical. Louis Lipps or Stallworth. Take your pick. Not Wallace, not Brown (not yet, at least.)

former RB
01-20-2012, 12:31 AM
I played QB my whole life from 5 til 18 and then some city league shit.. I didnt blow out my knee I just wasnt good enough to go anywhere else.. I was pretty good though but just not good enough.. anyway your dead wrong... sorry

yes BEN is a little different which I like.. its what makes him special.. he has 2 superbowl wins and throws for over 4000 yards so bottom line is he gets it done most times... I got one simple question for you.. Do you have DVR?? I watch and record every game like most steeler fans.. then during the week I re watch it for fun and slow motion many of the plays... the D is running our routes most times.. which are 75 percent 20 yard flags and post patterns... We never isolate Miller on their LB.. .like teams do to us..BEN drops back looks for his first read.. and sometimes his second,,, then he takes off.. the first and second read is hardly ever open that my friend is because of O coord... plain and simple its on tape as Tomlin likes to say.. all you got to do is watch it. On top of that 25 percent of the time he does even have time to look for his 1st or second read because of the line getting their ass kicked.

Anyway BEN does hold the ball to try for big plays,, and yes he could get a little better with accurate timing passes.. however make no mistake about it his recievers are covered the majority of the time.. With our Talent at WR there is no way in hell that should happen.. also with our team there is no way in hell we should get matchup problems for the D.. but we never seem to get them... Id like to have a Dollar for every time Timmons is running after a TE up the seam.. hell sometimes he is even on the slot guy... also james farriors old ass is always running behind some RB... thats called coaching O coord doing their job... We never and I mean never get those things..
We never hardly use end arounds... although the one time we use it a game it gets big yards or at least good gains.
we never use the waggle, although BEN is a very mobile QB that kills teams when hes outside the pocket
we cant run screens cause this o coord cant design them.... we suck at them.. although they are a good tool for teams that keep bringing the house like the ravens do to us.
we do however call one good game about every 5.. like we did against the pats.. that was a well thought out game plan which burned their ass... but we dont back many of those games up

bottom line bud pop the tape in and watch the routes.. I havea blast breaking the film down you will see it plain as day.. BEN cant throw in rythem when the D is sitting on the route

I tape the games and rewatch them sometimes. UNFORTUNATELY i can't see the routes because I'm at the mercy of the TV cameraman. I guess you have a magic DVR. Ben has 2 lombardis and played in 3 SB's, BUT WHCH SUPER BOWL DID HE PLAY GOOD? I MUST HAVE BEEN DRUNK OR SLEEPING FOR THE ONE HE PLAYED GOOD IN.

And for GODS SAKE FORMER QB, can't you understand that you are NOT in any position to judge the play call or design if the designed play that was called never happens because the play broke down by a QB that needs toooo much time and can't throw through a window.
I see the quick pressure that comes right up the middle at Ben. RIGHT OVER THAT OVER RATED ALL PRO BUM, AND THE LEFT GUARD.

former RB
01-20-2012, 12:37 AM
60 minutes, the D is sitting on the routes because they don't have to play a 2-deep against Ben. Instead of sitting 2 safetys back , they can bring them up and help underneath. Ben can't hit the deep pass, so you don't need cover 2. YOU CAN GET ALL 11 GUYS UP AND BLANKET THE SHORT STUFF AND RUN SUPPORT.

[ A former Qb would have some kind of basic fundamnetal knowledge of football, obviously you and your miracle DVR that can cove rall the action off camera knows something that I don't].

ricardisimo
01-20-2012, 12:38 AM
Ben can't hit the deep pass? :huh:

former RB
01-20-2012, 12:43 AM
No. I won't even allow this in a hypothetical. Louis Lipps or Stallworth. Take your pick. Not Wallace, not Brown (not yet, at least.)

What about Yancey or Hines? This 60 minutes guy is a blow hard. The most frustrating thing about re-watching the game to study what happened is that you can't see what is happening away from the ball in the secondary.

Guys that claim to have a magic DVR and the ability to see downfield when the rest of us can't, make an argument that is so stupid, you can't respond.

Let me know how you got the DVR that records stuff off camera.

tony hipchest
01-20-2012, 12:47 AM
maybe some people actually go to the games where you dont need a big TV to see the entire field. :noidea:

former RB
01-20-2012, 12:49 AM
So you send me to the store 16 times to get spaghetti, and fifteen times I come back with steak... who's responsible now? You're not getting the question. Let's assume you are absolutely right. Why would you feel better about Arians because of that?

Your question has no merit, and you don't understand the answer.
HOW CAN YOU BLAME THE OC IF THE PLAY CALLED DOESN'T GET RAN?
HOW CAN YOU JUDGE THE PLAY DESIGN IF THE PLAY CALLED DOESN'T GET RAN?

THE ONLY THING YOU CAN DO IS JUDGE THE "CHAOS" CAUED BY THE BREAK DOWN OF THE PLAY.

Blame the O line for the pressure if you want to. But every QB gets pressure. Some throw on rhythm, some throw the ball away, some take sacks, and some scramble.

Ben looks to scramble, EVEN WHEN THERE IS NO PRESSURE. He needs toooo much time. He needs to learn to pull the trigger and throw at the window offered.

Would you like Ariens to run out there and make him throw from the pocket on rhythm? Move his arm for him?

tony hipchest
01-20-2012, 12:52 AM
Would you like Ariens to run out there and make him throw from the pocket on rhythm? Move his arm for him?arians admits he's gonna call and put in atleast 5 deep bombs in every game REGARDLESS of opponent or situation. :doh:

i'd like arians to run out there and quit being so freaking stupid and predictable.

tony hipchest
01-20-2012, 01:01 AM
heres a novel idea...

why not have arians actually use redman as a goaline back and then have heath slip out behind the defense as ben fakes a hand off and rolls out for an easy pass or a jog into the endzone.

i just love how arians tinkered a few times with fad routes to our smurf receivers in the endzone.

i bet NOBODY saw that coming (because its pretty much impossible NOT to defend).

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-20-2012, 01:18 AM
Wow. If you were aiming to write an opinion piece that is as far from reality as possible, you would have won a gold medal. Lets examine this one, shall we?

I'm surprized by the amount of Ariens hate around here. My brother used to feel the same way, he used to get on my nerves with his hatred for Ariens. One day I told him "listen little brother, you just don't understand what you are seeing when you watch football." My little brother never played. I played from the age of 12 to 22, when I blew out my knee.

I aggree that a LOT of the Arians hate around here is misplaced. He is not the greatest situation playcaller (an understatement), but I think he takes a lot of heat because of our poor offensive line. The only two years when we had at least a serviceable Oline, our offense took off (2007, 2009) and set franchise records.

I explained to my brother that you can't blame the OC when the QB causes more than 50% of the pass plays to break down and turn into chaos.

Not very accurate, but no facts cited to argue against....

Ben isn't a rhythm pocket passer, and he isn't an accurate passer.

Ben is NOT a packet passer, but he is a rhythm passer-- all NFL QBs are.

Not an accurate passer? I honestly think he is one of the more accurate ones in the NFL. He routeinly "threads the needle", fitting tight, fast spirals into his recever's arms.

The only time Ben's accuracy tends to suffer is when he airs it out downfield. other than that, Ben is one of the league's most accurate intermediate to long pattern QBs.

If you think Ben is inaccurate, what the heck do you call Mark Sanchize? his receivers are always having to bend themselves into pretzels in mid-air to reel in his wayward passes.

Ben breaks the play down as soon as he scrambles.

"Breaks it down" alright-- for defensive backs trying to stick with his receivers....Ben;s passer rating jumps a full 22 points when he is on the run.

Ariens tries to compensate for Bens lack of ability by designing short pass plays that are easy to hit.

Now we know that you are completely lost with this one ^^^^. Are you sure we are watching the same Steelers?

Everyone's biggest critique of Ben is that he does NOT ever take the shorter options, he always tries to go deep. We don't run a West-Coast offense, we run a vertical passing game. That is why he takes so many sacks-- his insistence on looking for deeper options downfield when there are shorter ones open underneath all the time.

I have to ask again-- are we watching the same Pittsburgh Steelers?

My only issue with Ariens, is that by doing that, he takes the "attack" out of the offense.

You are the only person in the universe that thinks our offense does not work because we try to go with too many short underneath routes.

The problem with our offense is the LACK of short, underneath routes. We are unable to sustain dirves because we have an "all or nothing" style of offense.

Adding some shorter routes would help protect Ben, it would sustain drives, and it would keep the chains moving. The lack of these shorter plays lets defenders doubel team Wallace and Brown since they know we won't use the checkdowns or TE alike we should.

Did I ask you yet if we are watching the same Steelers?

Offense means "Attack". Ariens should design more plays that have design rollouts and waggles.

Didn't you just get finished saying that Ben makes the offens break by scrambling? or am I misunderstanding you?

Ariens isn't to blame for the offensive woes, Ben is.

Quite to the contrary, I think Ben has been responsible for helping Bruce to stay employed here.

Ariens can't make Ben stay in the pocket and pull the trigger.

Then if he were a descent O coordinator, he would design plays that take advantage of his QBs tendencies.

Ariens makes the problem worse, only to the degree that he designs too many short pass plays to accomodate Bens inablity to throw accurate long balls THEREFORE ARIENS AND THE OFFENSE IS PREDICTABLE.

No, no, no, no, and no.

Ben can't throw a good deep ball, so teams don't have to sit in 2-deep and blitz. They can bring their safetys up and get them involved in the run defense, and not worry about corners getting beat deep because Ben just can't make the deep throw.

Wasn't Mike Wallace leading the league in yards per catch for the last 3 years?

This thread is almost so dizzy and off the mark I am having a hard time justifying the time spent to answer it.

So, the question is the mystery: What would happen if Ben just threw on rhythm and ran the play as called?

He would be throwing the ball at the backs of his receivers' heads, because Bruce Arians does not know what a 3 step drop is or what a "checkdown" or "short-yardage, high completion" passing game is (contrary to what you are trying to tell us here). he always has his guys run 15-20 yard routes.

Would the OL look better and be happier if Ben did what the rest of the "PRO Quarterbacks" do , and drop back and get rid of the ball?

Like the other QBs we have?

* Charlie Batch got broken on the first play behind our Oline in 2009 when he had to replace in injured Ben against KC. He also got knocked out on IR for the season in 2007 as well. So much for the "Ben causes all his sacks" pet theory.

* Byron Leftwich has yet to survive a whole preseason behind our porous Oline that Ben makes look so bad. In two NFL preseasons behind our Oline, Byron has ended up on IR both times by week 2 of preseason. So much for the "Ben causes all his sacks" pet theory.

* Dennis Dixon lasted two games behind our Oline, before he got put on IR. And he is supposedly a scrambling QB!!!!! So much for the "Ben causes all his sacks" pet theory.


When your QB is getting sacked while trying to do a simple hand off on a up-the-gut dive play (like has happene SEVERAL TIMES this season)-- the QB is not the problem, by far. Again, I am not sure what Steelers games you were watching.


I seriously think your kid brother should start coaching YOU-- or at least take away your PC/internet rights.

:doh::doh::doh::doh:

MasterOfPuppets
01-20-2012, 01:23 AM
here's one thing in common with all arians supporters. they think the blame should always fall on the players for failure to execute. even though the failure to execute has been going on for the coaches 5 year tenure.
by this logic
1. teachers should never be blamed for students learning nothing
2. supervisors / management should never be blamed for shitty production from employees
3. military leaders should never be blamed for losing battles/wars
basically anyone who calls the shots should be immune to criticism because its always the grunts fault...there no such thing as bad teaching or a flawed plan... that should just about cover it..:thumbsup:

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-20-2012, 01:28 AM
Seriously though, when you brought up the bit about our offense stalling because we use too many short passes sent what little bit of credibility you have south for the winter.

MACH1
01-20-2012, 01:33 AM
Seriously though, when you brought up the bit about our offense stalling because we use too many short passes sent what little bit of credibility you have south for the winter.

He could be talking about that bubble screen they love to run every other play.

ricardisimo
01-20-2012, 01:34 AM
Seriously though, when you brought up the bit about our offense stalling because we use too many short passes sent what little bit of credibility you have south for the winter.
Or conversely that Ben can't complete the deep pass. Ben is 12th all-time in pass completion %, and he is one of only 8 guys all-time with an average/attempt of 8.0 yards and up. That would suggest that he knows how to throw it long. I know neither my eyes nor those stats are lying to me.

So if we know the short game works when he plays it, and we know that he can play the long ball almost as well as anybody, then for exactly how long do I humor this guy when I ask hypotheticals like "Why does it make you feel better about Arians to know that Ben is the problem?"

DanRooney
01-20-2012, 01:35 AM
Ben is pretty accurate with the WR screen. Maybe that's why Arians calls it 6 times a game.

Bayz101
01-20-2012, 01:39 AM
Wow. If you were aiming to write an opinion piece that is as far from reality as possible, you would have won a gold medal. Lets examine this one, shall we?



I aggree that a LOT of the Arians hate around here is misplaced. He is not the greatest situation playcaller (an understatement), but I think he takes a lot of heat because of our poor offensive line. The only two years when we had at least a serviceable Oline, our offense took off (2007, 2009) and set franchise records.



Not very accurate, but no facts cited to argue against....



Ben is NOT a packet passer, but he is a rhythm passer-- all NFL QBs are.

Not an accurate passer? I honestly think he is one of the more accurate ones in the NFL. He routeinly "threads the needle", fitting tight, fast spirals into his recever's arms.

The only time Ben's accuracy tends to suffer is when he airs it out downfield. other than that, Ben is one of the league's most accurate intermediate to long pattern QBs.

If you think Ben is inaccurate, what the heck do you call Mark Sanchize? his receivers are always having to bend themselves into pretzels in mid-air to reel in his wayward passes.



"Breaks it down" alright-- for defensive backs trying to stick with his receivers....Ben;s passer rating jumps a full 22 points when he is on the run.



Now we know that you are completely lost with this one ^^^^. Are you sure we are watching the same Steelers?

Everyone's biggest critique of Ben is that he does NOT ever take the shorter options, he always tries to go deep. We don't run a West-Coast offense, we run a vertical passing game. That is why he takes so many sacks-- his insistence on looking for deeper options downfield when there are shorter ones open underneath all the time.

I have to ask again-- are we watching the same Pittsburgh Steelers?



You are the only person in the universe that thinks our offense does not work because we try to go with too many short underneath routes.

The problem with our offense is the LACK of short, underneath routes. We are unable to sustain dirves because we have an "all or nothing" style of offense.

Adding some shorter routes would help protect Ben, it would sustain drives, and it would keep the chains moving. The lack of these shorter plays lets defenders doubel team Wallace and Brown since they know we won't use the checkdowns or TE alike we should.

Did I ask you yet if we are watching the same Steelers?



Didn't you just get finished saying that Ben makes the offens break by scrambling? or am I misunderstanding you?



Quite to the contrary, I think Ben has been responsible for helping Bruce to stay employed here.



Then if he were a descent O coordinator, he would design plays that take advantage of his QBs tendencies.



No, no, no, no, and no.



Wasn't Mike Wallace leading the league in yards per catch for the last 3 years?

This thread is almost so dizzy and off the mark I am having a hard time justifying the time spent to answer it.



He would be throwing the ball at the backs of his receivers' heads, because Bruce Arians does not know what a 3 step drop is or what a "checkdown" or "short-yardage, high completion" passing game is (contrary to what you are trying to tell us here). he always has his guys run 15-20 yard routes.



Like the other QBs we have?

* Charlie Batch got broken on the first play behind our Oline in 2009 when he had to replace in injured Ben against KC. He also got knocked out on IR for the season in 2007 as well. So much for the "Ben causes all his sacks" pet theory.

* Byron Leftwich has yet to survive a whole preseason behind our porous Oline that Ben makes look so bad. In two NFL preseasons behind our Oline, Byron has ended up on IR both times by week 2 of preseason. So much for the "Ben causes all his sacks" pet theory.

* Dennis Dixon lasted two games behind our Oline, before he got put on IR. And he is supposedly a scrambling QB!!!!! So much for the "Ben causes all his sacks" pet theory.


When your QB is getting sacked while trying to do a simple hand off on a up-the-gut dive play (like has happene SEVERAL TIMES this season)-- the QB is not the problem, by far. Again, I am not sure what Steelers games you were watching.


I seriously think your kid brother should start coaching YOU-- or at least take away your PC/internet rights.

:doh::doh::doh::doh:

He's a former running back, and i'm a current starting quarteback for Mansfield Senior High.

It's okay to run a designed roll out pass, it's when your rolling out on your own that the situation becomes iffy. Your offensive line is running around with you to try and keep you from getting murdered, and they're not built to do so. They block based on the original play call.

I'll admit that Ben tends to make plays happen when he scrambles, but the play does break down at that point. The line will still block based on the original play call, and possibly move with him if they notice changes in movement of the defensive line. Ben will always go for the big play's, and it's something we'll need a good offensive line for. And definitely a well conditioned one too :chuckle:

Last time I pulled the play extensions more than once in a game I had red marks from getting whipped with towels by my guards :rofl:

tony hipchest
01-20-2012, 01:40 AM
arians supporters are secretly worried that big ol dumb ben is incapable of learning a new offense and we will regress with ANYONE besides bruce arians. hell, even arians supporters will admit they dont think he's that great but that we are SURE to suffer a setback w/o him.

i tend to give ben, and ALL THE REST of the offensive players a bit more credit than that.

arians supporters are linus and bruce is their security blanket-

EyoJe1icwHA

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-20-2012, 01:40 AM
So if we know the short game works when he plays it, and we know that he can play the long ball almost as well as anybody, then for exactly how long do I humor this guy when I ask hypotheticals like "Why does it make you feel better about Arians to know that Ben is the problem?"

I really don't know.

I feel bad bagging on someone who just joined, I hate posters that form cliques like that-- but if you are going to offer a controversial opinion piece, you should at least know a little bit about what you are speaking about. I did come off a bit snarky though, and needlessly. Everyone has their opinions.

Trying to tell us that our offense is a failure because we go with too many short passing plays is as ridiculous as saying our offense sputters because Mike Wallace is slower than my Grandma. it is completely contrary to the truth.

And this is not to even say our offense does not have its issues, but defeinitely not the ones he is talking about.

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-20-2012, 01:43 AM
He could be talking about that bubble screen they love to run every other play.

Yeah, that thing is god-awful. it looks like a pick-6 waiting to happen everytime. Tha is one short-yardage play they can do without-- or at least used sparingly.

Riddle_Of_Steel
01-20-2012, 01:49 AM
He's a former running back, and i'm a current starting quarteback for Mansfield Senior High.

It's okay to run a designed roll out pass, it's when your rolling out on your own that the situation becomes iffy. Your offensive line is running around with you to try and keep you from getting murdered, and they're not built to do so. They block based on the original play call.

I'll admit that Ben tends to make plays happen when he scrambles, but the play does break down at that point. The line will still block based on the original play call, and possibly move with him if they notice changes in movement of the defensive line. Ben will always go for the big play's, and it's something we'll need a good offensive line for. And definitely a well conditioned one too :chuckle:

Last time I pulled the play extensions more than once in a game I had red marks from getting whipped with towels by my guards :rofl:

Then it becomes a question of the chicken or the egg. Does Ben roll out so often because the protection is so awful (I am leaning towards this one), or does the protection look awful because Ben rolls out of the pocket too quickly?

The fact that we can't even hand off the ball on simple dive plays sometimes without Sugs being there to make a sack (on a running play? ugh), is pretty telltale. And when they have Jonathan Scott playing at LT, the game is basically over with. I saw Elvis Dumervil throw Scott at Roethlisberger in that game like he was a offended they even tried to block him with someone like that.

former RB
01-20-2012, 01:54 AM
Seriously though, when you brought up the bit about our offense stalling because we use too many short passes sent what little bit of credibility you have south for the winter.

Facts are facts. Teams don't have to play cover 2 against us, so they can bring their safetys up. That makes it harder for us to run and throw short passes.

I don't understand the logic of the arguments against Ariens. If he designs a play, and it gets called in the huddle - BUT IT DOESN'T GET RAN - how can you critize the play design if you weren't in the hiuddle to hear what play was called?
And again, how can you critize the play calling, if the play called doesn't get ran? YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT PLAY WAS CALLED. BECAUSE IT DIDN'T FREAKIN HAPPEN!

Ben holds the ball too long. Ben isn't accurate. So Ariens tries to get him to throw quick short passes.

Offense means "ATTACK" . You attack the defense that is played against you. Teams play a lot of cover 0 man, and cover 1 against the steelers. To beat the Cover 0 and cover 1, you take shots deep because one or both of the safetys are up. But deep shots are Bens weakness.

It's hard to run against cover 0 or cover 1 because safetys are close to the line. So you throw WR screens and hope for a run after catch.

Its hard to use your tight end against cover0 and cover 1 because he is usually covered by a safety instead of a slower LB, and he is often doubled.

Ben creates his own problems because he isn't accurate, and he needs too much time to get a big wondow. The play called often isn't ran, and the play then ran isn't by design.

This is a problem with most football fans on the internet. They just don't understand schemes and the dynamics of football.

I've found that most people who watch football, just follow the bouncing ball. They don't look at pre snap sets and defensive alignments.

When I watch football, I have a progression. I look for the TE, then the safety, then how the corners are showing, then check the RB and then process all that by looking to see if the Qb is in shotgun or under rump. At the snap, I focus on the LB's to see if they are coming, holding or dropping. Then look for the ball.

ricardisimo
01-20-2012, 02:01 AM
Ben isn't accurate? He's 12th all-time (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_cmp_perc_career.htm) in completion percentage. What Ben are you talking about?

Bayz101
01-20-2012, 02:03 AM
Then it becomes a question of the chicken or the egg. Does Ben roll out so often because the protection is so awful (I am leaning towards this one), or does the protection look awful because Ben rolls out of the pocket too quickly?

The fact that we can't even hand off the ball on simple dive plays sometimes without Sugs being there to make a sack (on a running play? ugh), is pretty telltale. And when they have Jonathan Scott playing at LT, the game is basically over with. I saw Elvis Dumervil throw Scott at Roethlisberger in that game like he was a offended they even tried to block him with someone like that.

I understand that protection is bad...

But what I also understand is that Ben sometimes takes 5 seconds to throw the ball, and THEN he scrambles to extend the play. If you can't find a read before 3 seconds goes by, it's time to make a decision.

What I also understand is that this line will sometimes give him less than a second to think before the defense is in his face, and this happens more than the first part.

New lineman are needed. We'll address this in the draft. Arians needs to go, or change his style of play calling. This will be addressed this weekend.

No one player can take the blame for a team loss.

steelerjim58
01-20-2012, 02:03 AM
I would very much like to have someone look at every pass play and see just what percentage of the time pressure is on Ben in less than 3 seconds. I watch every game and maybe I am mistaken, but it seems to me he breaks the pocket much more because of pressure as opposed to holding the ball to long.

Bayz101
01-20-2012, 02:05 AM
Ben isn't accurate? He's 12th all-time (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_cmp_perc_career.htm) in completion percentage. What Ben are you talking about?

Yeah, I find it preposterous to think that Ben's an inaccurate quarterback.

jiminpa
01-20-2012, 02:14 AM
Then it becomes a question of the chicken or the egg. Does Ben roll out so often because the protection is so awful (I am leaning towards this one), or does the protection look awful because Ben rolls out of the pocket too quickly?

The fact that we can't even hand off the ball on simple dive plays sometimes without Sugs being there to make a sack (on a running play? ugh), is pretty telltale. And when they have Jonathan Scott playing at LT, the game is basically over with. I saw Elvis Dumervil throw Scott at Roethlisberger in that game like he was a offended they even tried to block him with someone like that.Scott notwithstanding, I think it is mostly by design. Arians resents that we even have a running game, so he calls the runs to unblocked holes. If you DVRed the games watch and see if the linemen aren't engaged with defenders everywhere but were Mendenhall starts to run to on all of those running plays that he has to bounce. And leading with that no contact, fifth-string TE just convinces me all the more that it's by design.

Aussie Steeler
01-20-2012, 04:22 AM
BRUCE!!! Is that you?!

AgentGold007
01-20-2012, 05:52 AM
I'm surprized by the amount of Ariens hate around here. My brother used to feel the same way, he used to get on my nerves with his hatred for Ariens. One day I told him "listen little brother, you just don't understand what you are seeing when you watch football." My little brother never played. I played from the age of 12 to 22, when I blew out my knee.

I explained to my brother that you can't blame the OC when the QB causes more than 50% of the pass plays to break down and turn into chaos.

Ben isn't a rhythm pocket passer, and he isn't an accurate passer. Ben gets the ball close, and the reciever has to adjust to the ball.
Ben needs a big window. Or lots of time.

Ben breaks the play down as soon as he scrambles. Offensive linemen hate to block for Ben because they don't have eyes on the back of their heads. They can't block for him if they don't know where he is.

Ariens tries to compensate for Bens lack of ability by designing short pass plays that are easy to hit.

My only issue with Ariens, is that by doing that, he takes the "attack" out of the offense.
Offense means "Attack". Ariens should design more plays that have design rollouts and waggles. That way, the OL knows where Ben is without seeing him, and Ben can buy the time to look for a big window.

Ariens isn't to blame for the offensive woes, Ben is. Ariens can't make Ben stay in the pocket and pull the trigger. Ariens makes the problem worse, only to the degree that he designs too many short pass plays to accomodate Bens inablity to throw accurate long balls THEREFORE ARIENS AND THE OFFENSE IS PREDICTABLE.

Ben can't throw a good deep ball, so teams don't have to sit in 2-deep and blitz. They can bring their safetys up and get them involved in the run defense, and not worry about corners getting beat deep because Ben just can't make the deep throw.

Nowadays, my brother better understands that , with Ben, the play you see, often isn't the play that was called, or designed. So, he doesn't blame the OC.

So, the question is the mystery: What would happen if Ben just threw on rhythm and ran the play as called?What would happen if he just threw through the window presented? Would the OL look better and be happier if Ben did what the rest of the "PRO Quarterbacks" do , and drop back and get rid of the ball?

Are you related to Bruce Arians?

Rick5895
01-20-2012, 06:03 AM
I find it amazing on some of these threads that people say Ben isn't running the play called...My question is How the hell does anyone know the play call or if its being run, are you on the sideline or in the huddle. I think Ben has a bit more latitude than most to adjust at the LOS to what he sees but that is a statement that baffles me.
Most of us on this forum are fans, some of us played the game whether it be high school or college, and some of us have coached either at the high school or minor football level. What I find with most kids who play the game or ex- players is they think they are all knowing about the game.
I have played the game and if not for my piss por grades coming out of high school (30 or s years ago) I would have played college ball as i was pretty heavily recruited here ( until they saw my grades, LOL). I have been a high school and high school all star D.C, that all means nothing when watching pro ball. I watch the games as a fan but sometimes my coaching "eyes" get involved, LOL.
What I have observed from this offense is this, Our OL is not the best or has the reputation for not being good therefore opposing DC's send lots of pressure. Our pass route tree is deep and takes time often times more time than Ben has to throw, that is a big cause for some of our woes.
My biggest complaints about Bruce is he doesn't seem have a plan with "flow" It seems as though he's pulling his plays out a hat and his red zone playing calling is questionable at best.
In the pre-season this year we saw some rollouts with Ben to his left, which seemed to be pretty damn succesful, did we see that during the season, NO.
But my biggest complaint about Bruce and the main reason I think he needs to go....He doesn't adjust his play calling to what the other team is doing defensively, in fact he has even been quated as saying he doesn't adjut, IMO that failure cost us a super bowl victory against the Packers last year and is holding this team back.

AgentGold007
01-20-2012, 06:30 AM
The problem with Arians is that there's nothing methodical about his game planning, there's no deliberate exploitation of the opposing defense's weaknesses, and he doesn't capitalize on the strengths of our offense, which would be getting the ball in stride to the quick and speedy receivers with designed short passes (I don't know where you get the idea that he calls too many short passes, the only time he did that was in the patriots game, and it worked pretty Damn good, never seen it again the rest of the year), and I agree that he should call more designed rollouts and bootlegs for Ben, but he doesn't, which is a further illustration of his ineptness. I still will never forget that 2007 playoff game against jacksonville, when he called that quarterback sweep on 3rd and 7 on the last drive of the game, he should have been fired for that alone. Then there's the hundreds of bubble screens, lob passes to short receivers, the exclusion of Heath Miller in the redzone playcalling, and his refusal to use a true fullback in the running game. True indeed the lack of production on the offense is not all Arians fault, but he is by far the biggest culprit. There's no excuse for us to have this much talent and very little to show for it on the scoreboard.

Truman_sparks
01-20-2012, 09:51 AM
Third and two.......5 wides.

Enough said!

steelfury02
01-20-2012, 01:51 PM
1st and goal at 1 - Johnson lined up in front of Redman, Miller motions to left next to Johnson - run to the right - STUFFED at the goal line

2nd and goal at 1 - Johnson lined up in front of Redman, Miller motions to left next to Johnson - run to the right - STUFFED at the goal line

3rd and goal at 1 - Johnson lined up in front of Redman, Miller motions to left next to Johnson - run to the right - STUFFED at the goal line

4th and goal at 1 - now children, can you guess what is going to happen next?

Insert Mendy in this situation and repeat
Yea dude, sorry - I know a lot of people exactly like you that played a lot of football too and have just as much supposed knowledge of the game and somehow someway they don't agree with you. We Won 1 SB without Arians and 1 in spite of him - Ben's extension of the play was exactly what the doctor ordered in the XLIII run because of the line and he had great chemistry with Holmes and no one had figured out how to stop the sandlot play yet. I do believe he will have to tweak his game to take less chances, stay healthy, and pull the trigger when the window is open to a degree. That said - what is your response to the way Ben was playing against Titans, Pats, Bengals this season? Got rid of the ball pretty nicely, quickly, and with accuracy. And yes - he is one of the most accurate guys. You also fail to recognize or bring up Ben's injury which while most Steelers fans don't like to use as an excuse - hindered his abilities considerably.

Answer me this if you want to - do you have someone else you would prefer over Arians - regardless of you liking him or not?

Arians isn't coming back now so none of this matters - so do we boil it down to getting rid of Ben? Do you think we can get someone better or do you honestly believe Ben is all of a sudden become something he is not.

former RB
01-20-2012, 03:42 PM
Ben is pretty accurate with the WR screen. Maybe that's why Arians calls it 6 times a game.

When I played ball, plays were shuttled in. Sometimes we used hand signals. In all the years I played, I can't remember a single WR screen get shuttled in.

My memory tells me that every time we ran a WR screen [we called it a quick screen,old timers call it a slip screen because the WR was supposed to pretend to slip and then straighten up and catch the pass] , I never heard one called in the huddle. Every quick screen we ran came about as a Kill and check by the QB. Usually it was always when we were in a 1st and 10 , or 2nd or 3rd and long situation. AND THE SAFETYS WERE TWO DEEP, CORNERS WERE GIVING A CUSHION, AND THE 7 IN THE BOX WERE CROWDING THE LINE AND SHOWING A DOG BLITZ. When a QB sees both safetys deep, and the corners giving a cushion,and 7 dogs in the box, he knows that the pass play he just called in the huddle isn't going to work, because he is going to get blitzed by at least 6, which means sonebody will come free. SO THE "QB" YELLS KILL! KILL! , AND CHECKS OFF TO A RED LIGHT 0 , OR RED 1.
Kordell Stewart used to always call time out when he saw the defense in that alignment. Cowher used to yell at him "check off to a ****in red light"! I could read his lips.

Ben doesn't call timeout when he sees a bum rush, with safetys back and corners soft. BEN KILLS THE PLAY AND CHECKS OFF. USUALLY IT IS A QUICK SCREEN OR OR A DRAW BECAUSE HE KNOWS HE WON'T HAVE TIME AND THE RB WILL HAVE A SHOT AT A LONG PLAY IF HE CAN BUST THROUGH THE RUN BLITZ.

Ben sees that defensive set often because teams know that in long yardage, Ben isn't a drop back and pass in rhythm thrower. Sometimess Ben checks off to a Y slant if Hines is in the slot, but lately he seems content to call the quick screen and save the TO.

Now , how is Ariens responsible for that? If Ben would burn timeouts, you all would cry about him being like Kordell.

OC's hate WR screens, they don't call them. They only work if the safetys are deep, the corners soft, and Lb in blitz position. Defenses are smart, they see a 3 WR set to one side, the QB yells kill, someone goes in motion, the Mike LB yells "screen", and the will or sam slids out instead of blitzing, and the WR screen goes nowhere.

If Ben was 3 step drop QB like Brady, Brees, Manning or someone like that, he could run the play as called in the hudlle. But Ben needs too much time because he likes a big window. He has to understand that this is the NFL and big windows are hard to come by. Elway learned it after about 10 years. Ben modeled his game after Elway.

So, don't blame Ariens for calling quick screens.

AND FURTHER, ONLY URBAN MEYER "SPREAD OFFENSE" DISCIPLES CALL THEM "BUBBLE SCREENS". They like to pretend like they understand football better than anyone else. But the spread offense is only a hybred of the west coast with some old wing T thrown in, and a touch of run and shoot. And some wildcat. It's a west coast offense with a twist or two or three. When I hear someone use the term "Bubble screen", I know that they watch too much sports center. And all their knowledge is what the guru journalist teachs that week.

Danny136200
01-20-2012, 03:54 PM
How about this: lets stop trying to blame one person (either Ben or Arians) for our offensive faults. There are some personnel and scheme problems that needs some tweaking and fixing for this offense to flourish; there is no one person at fault here.

former RB
01-20-2012, 03:58 PM
1st and goal at 1 - Johnson lined up in front of Redman, Miller motions to left next to Johnson - run to the right - STUFFED at the goal line

2nd and goal at 1 - Johnson lined up in front of Redman, Miller motions to left next to Johnson - run to the right - STUFFED at the goal line

3rd and goal at 1 - Johnson lined up in front of Redman, Miller motions to left next to Johnson - run to the right - STUFFED at the goal line

4th and goal at 1 - now children, can you guess what is going to happen next?

Insert Mendy in this situation and repeat
Yea dude, sorry - I know a lot of people exactly like you that played a lot of football too and have just as much supposed knowledge of the game and somehow someway they don't agree with you. We Won 1 SB without Arians and 1 in spite of him - Ben's extension of the play was exactly what the doctor ordered in the XLIII run because of the line and he had great chemistry with Holmes and no one had figured out how to stop the sandlot play yet. I do believe he will have to tweak his game to take less chances, stay healthy, and pull the trigger when the window is open to a degree. That said - what is your response to the way Ben was playing against Titans, Pats, Bengals this season? Got rid of the ball pretty nicely, quickly, and with accuracy. And yes - he is one of the most accurate guys. You also fail to recognize or bring up Ben's injury which while most Steelers fans don't like to use as an excuse - hindered his abilities considerably.

Answer me this if you want to - do you have someone else you would prefer over Arians - regardless of you liking him or not?

Arians isn't coming back now so none of this matters - so do we boil it down to getting rid of Ben? Do you think we can get someone better or do you honestly believe Ben is all of a sudden become something he is not.

Dude, when Arfiens designs a play, and calls a play, and Ben kills it and checks off toa WR screen, or drops back and scrambles - and the play is busted- how is that Ariens fault. Ben needs to just run the called play by the design it was intended, if it ain't there, throw the ball where only the WR can get it or it goes imcomplete.

If your wife sends you to the store with a grocery list, and you come back with completely different stuff, who's fault is it if supper don't get made?

Phil Sims used to do the same thing to The Tuna. Tuna used to say "Phil, can i call the plays and make the decisions please"?

I just can't even begin to fathom how you guys can even think about blaming Ariens because Ben scrambles and kills the play, or kills the play and throws quick screens instead of calling timeout. RUN THE FREAKIN PLAY! LIKE IT WAS DESIGNED!

tanda10506
01-20-2012, 04:02 PM
That could happen in the Burg if we can get Taiwan Jones.

Holly hell, where are people coming up with these names? Taiwan is a damn country. Why not just name him Czechoslovakia?

MACH1
01-20-2012, 04:23 PM
Holly hell, where are people coming up with these names? Taiwan is a damn country. Why not just name him Czechoslovakia?

Maybe he was made in Taiwan.

tanda10506
01-20-2012, 04:41 PM
Maybe he was made in Taiwan.

LOL, everything else in this country is

Bayz101
01-20-2012, 05:13 PM
How about this: lets stop trying to blame one person (either Ben or Arians) for our offensive faults. There are some personnel and scheme problems that needs some tweaking and fixing for this offense to flourish; there is no one person at fault here.

Very good answer. It's a team effort, and no one person should take the blame. I do think a new Offensive Coordinator is good, as we'll run a different scheme in the coming years. We've made it to the Super Bowl twice with Arians Scheme, and it's always good to find a fresher way to execute things. We all know Arians wasn't going to change anything up, lol.

60_MINUTES
01-20-2012, 05:57 PM
No. I won't even allow this in a hypothetical. Louis Lipps or Stallworth. Take your pick. Not Wallace, not Brown (not yet, at least.)



I meant to say the WR core as a hole... everyone included.. Wallace, sanders brown, ward, miller... all in all its the best weve had IMO

60_MINUTES
01-20-2012, 06:02 PM
I tape the games and rewatch them sometimes. UNFORTUNATELY i can't see the routes because I'm at the mercy of the TV cameraman. I guess you have a magic DVR. Ben has 2 lombardis and played in 3 SB's, BUT WHCH SUPER BOWL DID HE PLAY GOOD? I MUST HAVE BEEN DRUNK OR SLEEPING FOR THE ONE HE PLAYED GOOD IN.

And for GODS SAKE FORMER QB, can't you understand that you are NOT in any position to judge the play call or design if the designed play that was called never happens because the play broke down by a QB that needs toooo much time and can't throw through a window.
I see the quick pressure that comes right up the middle at Ben. RIGHT OVER THAT OVER RATED ALL PRO BUM, AND THE LEFT GUARD.



Your right you cant see everything on every play but there are many plays you can see.. you can also tell alot by the D drop zones and at times the TV will go wide angle and behind the O views.. overall you can see many plays but not all.

As far as the superbowl comment.. Holmes should back his ass up to get the MVP trophy or they should have split it.. BEN played solid all game and that last drive was bigger than any drive any QB has ever done in the SB.. He played a very good game against the Cards.... Seahawks he made some big plays but many bad ones as well. Pack superbowl was average.. had we finished that last drive though everyone would have forgot about average... anyway to answer your question.. the Cards Superbowl was damn good MVP type good

MasterOfPuppets
01-20-2012, 06:05 PM
here's bruces' retirement gift from the rooney's

http://rlv.zcache.com/i_am_the_weakest_link_tshirt-p235278965102196012zvk0i_400.jpg

60_MINUTES
01-20-2012, 06:07 PM
60 minutes, the D is sitting on the routes because they don't have to play a 2-deep against Ben. Instead of sitting 2 safetys back , they can bring them up and help underneath. Ben can't hit the deep pass, so you don't need cover 2. YOU CAN GET ALL 11 GUYS UP AND BLANKET THE SHORT STUFF AND RUN SUPPORT.

[ A former Qb would have some kind of basic fundamnetal knowledge of football, obviously you and your miracle DVR that can cove rall the action off camera knows something that I don't].

BEN cant hit the Deep pass??? Wallace leads the league in 40 yarders... for ****s sake what game are you watching.... all we do is look down field.. thats the whole problem. We have guys with speed we need to get the ball in their hands.. Crossing routes would kill on this team.. all we do is drop back and look 20 yards down the field.. BEN dont hit the deep pass?

I watch the same shit you do pal... shit I spend more time watching formations and O line then I do watching the ball. I think its the best thing about football pepople that just keep up with the ball are missing the game I do agree with you on that.

60_MINUTES
01-20-2012, 06:18 PM
What about Yancey or Hines? This 60 minutes guy is a blow hard. The most frustrating thing about re-watching the game to study what happened is that you can't see what is happening away from the ball in the secondary.

Guys that claim to have a magic DVR and the ability to see downfield when the rest of us can't, make an argument that is so stupid, you can't respond.

Let me know how you got the DVR that records stuff off camera.


Hines is still on the team... I mean this is the best WR core as a hole in our history.. IMO... all of them including TE's


Just to follow up.. I think BEN needs some work to take his game further.. He is already great and one of the best QB in the game.. I think if he had someone show him the X n O's of the game he could be one of the best of all time. The reason he does what he does is because no one is showing him a better way.. Had BEN got placed with a Jon Gruden type he would be un real.. He is winning with one of the worst O coords in the game.. we never ever set anything up


Anyway I guess it looks like the Steelers agree with Us... thank GOD... Now lets see what happens.. maybe next year half way through the season we can revisit this thread...


By the way stick to running the ball and let us x QB's handle all the thinking.. You remind me of a running back or a WR.. your mouth opens before you think.

Kanata-Steeler
01-21-2012, 07:09 AM
He's a former running back, and i'm a current starting quarteback for Mansfield Senior High.
:rofl:

..., ahhh ok, so that explains, why you're ALWAYS posting in defense of Ben, no matter what He does. haha
:rofl:

but on a side note, sincere best wishes and fun,
AND, kindly stop "pooping" on our "D" - ALL the time. ;)

ricardisimo
01-21-2012, 08:56 AM
I find it amazing on some of these threads that people say Ben isn't running the play called...My question is How the hell does anyone know the play call or if its being run, are you on the sideline or in the huddle. I think Ben has a bit more latitude than most to adjust at the LOS to what he sees but that is a statement that baffles me.
These are people who watch the game with two automatic assumptions:


When the play goes well, the coaches are geniuses;
When the play goes badly, the players failed to execute.

I guess the reasoning is something like "why would a coach insert a stupid play into the playbook, and why would they actually call it come game time?" Those are both very good questions. And yet it's not as though we haven't seen monumentally stupid plays from this year's Steelers (the bubble screens to Hines, etc.) called repeatedly.

These people who insist that Ben is the culprit forget that Ben doesn't call the personnel out onto the field. If there's no RB out on the field for third-and-short... how the hell is that Ben's doing? How is that the players failing to execute? Ridiculous.