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CAH
06-30-2006, 08:51 PM
All content taken from The O'Reilly Factor on Fox News Channel. Each weeknight by 6 PM EST a preview of that evening's show will be posted and then updated with additional information the following weekday by noon EST.
Talking Points Memo & Top Story
Is Mexico threatening the US?
Guests: Rob Allyn, PR expert & Mark Falcoff, American Enterprise Institute

"Millions of Canadians aren't illegally crossing into America. That's because Canada has a good economy, a strong middle class, and a workable society. Mexico has none of those things, despite fabulous wealth in the form of oil and other fossil fuels and two spectacular coastlines. But because of the incredible corruption throughout Mexico, 40% of its citizens live below the poverty line and few foreign investors will put money into that country. Thus Mexico exports its poverty problem to the USA. After hearing President Bush order 6,000 National Guard troops to the southern border, Mexico's Foreign Secretary Luis Ernesto Derbez threatened to 'immediately start filing lawsuits through our consulates.' Okay, then Mr. Secretary, here's a no-spin message back to you - if the Mexican government files one lawsuit in the USA pertaining to the National Guard, I will call for a total boycott of Mexican goods and no travel to your country. That may sound presumptuous, but enough's enough. We in America have a right to security and a right to expect our immigration laws to be enforced. Mexico has an obligation to work with our National Guard, not sue it. And by the way, Mr. Secretary, you're welcome on The Factor any time."

-----------------------------
Are they out of their minds?

tony hipchest
06-30-2006, 09:31 PM
the 6000 troops is all for show and wont do crap. anyone remember the 100's of millions bush sr. wasted on the "war on drugs"?

same thing. the mexicans wont succeed if theyre completely stupid enough to follow through on this threat (its just a threat and rhetoric) and the troops on the border will prove to be a waste of force as illegal alien #s dont decline.

for those of you who dont know, most illegals arent swimming across a river and trekking through the desert for days.

HburgXL06
06-30-2006, 10:28 PM
for those of you who dont know, most illegals arent swimming across a river and trekking through the desert for days.

What do you mean?

It would seem idiotic of the Mexican gov't to sue the U.S. because we are tryin to keep people from leavin their country. It's as though they support illegal immigration so that they don't have to deal wit the problem themselves.....oh wait.

BuFu

tony hipchest
06-30-2006, 11:11 PM
what i mean is the mexicans dont have a case if they are gonna actually follow through on this empty threat of suing. i live within 90 miles of the boarder. 6000 troops camping out waiting for a few crawling through the desert is bogus and a complete waste of resources. the alien smugglers are much more sophisticated than the stereotypical, outdated "wetback" image that is portrayed.

funny how bush didnt take this stance when he was governor of texas. (then again who would clean his house :rolleyes:).

his daddys plan to eradicate the drugs being trafficed along the same paths were a complete failure and waste of time, effort, taxpayers money, and false hopes. this grandstanding effort is the same thing. much ado about nothing. camping 6000 guardsmen along the boarder to stop 10-20 donkeys is kinda futile when hundereds are passing through our overcrowded border patrol stations.

where did all that homeland security money go that was supposed to improve borderland security?

anyways, while the thread title says mexico MAY sue, the simply wont. no need to get alarmed. its all propaganda with an agenda to push a plan that is destined for failure.

CAH
06-30-2006, 11:17 PM
What do you mean?

It would seem idiotic of the Mexican gov't to sue the U.S. because we are tryin to keep people from leavin their country. It's as though they support illegal immigration so that they don't have to deal wit the problem themselves.....oh wait.

BuFu
Mexico is getting rid of their poverty and let's us pay for it. It's costing us billions. Hell, Mexico wants them to leave.

tony hipchest
06-30-2006, 11:24 PM
Mexico is getting rid of their poverty and let's us pay for it. It's costing us billions. Hell, Mexico wants them to leave.

duh. is this new news you are reporting? or are you just rehashing old news? do you think papa savior bush's 6000 troops are gonna make a difference?

:rofl:

more taxpayers $$$ and resources redirected to save face. see "the war on drugs". and im pretty sure o'rileys (i do enjoy his show) knowledge on the matter goes no further than what he reads on the teleprompter.

HburgXL06
06-30-2006, 11:34 PM
Mexico is getting rid of their poverty and let's us pay for it. It's costing us billions. Hell, Mexico wants them to leave.

That's what I was hintin at....

BuFu

83-Steelers-43
06-30-2006, 11:45 PM
All I needed to do was read the title of this thread in order to make me laugh.........

SteelShooter
07-01-2006, 12:35 AM
All I needed to do was read the title of this thread in order to make me laugh.........


Me too! :sofunny:

But Tony is right....I live 1.5 miles from the border...they just walk through huge, gaping holes in the fencing, or through the border stations with fake paperwork. Many use legal, temporary paperwork...but never go back.

I literally see them walking around DAILY.

CAH
07-01-2006, 01:20 PM
All I needed to do was read the title of this thread in order to make me laugh.........
To be honest, I posted the article b/c I thought it would turn out to be a humorous thread.

It's like one neighbor's family sneaks into the neighbor's house to eat and steal everything they may want and then sue the family for putting locks on the doors. :rolleyes:

What we need are "locks" on the doors.

tony hipchest
07-01-2006, 01:29 PM
To be honest, I posted the article b/c I thought it would turn out to be a humorous thread.

It's like one neighbor's family sneaks into the neighbor's house to eat and steal everything they may want and then sue the family for putting locks on the doors. :rolleyes:

What we need are "locks" on the doors. good analogy. and i agree, we need more locks. just not a simple "hook and eye latch" that the 6000 guardsmen would be.

i dont know if youve seen, but they have giant white blimps at some of the most random spots in the desert, with sensory gear that detects river hoppers all in nm, az, and ca. more of these could help along with the ground support they need to function, but as steelshooter said, most of these illegals are passing through right under everyones noses using methods that look legal on the surface.

CAH
07-01-2006, 02:07 PM
good analogy. and i agree, we need more locks. just not a simple "hook and eye latch" that the 6000 guardsmen would be.

i dont know if youve seen, but they have giant white blimps at some of the most random spots in the desert, with sensory gear that detects river hoppers all in nm, az, and ca. more of these could help along with the ground support they need to function, but as steelshooter said, most of these illegals are passing through right under everyones noses using methods that look legal on the surface.
Maybe we should have the guards armed and shoot over their heads. I know that would turn me around.

3 to be 4
07-02-2006, 12:04 AM
they are suing over the frequency that americans suffer from diahrea,calling it copyright infringement.

SteelCityMan786
07-02-2006, 03:39 PM
They can't do sue. Entering the country with no id or stuff is against the law. We are watching out at our borders. I guess others don't care about their country.

ARKIESTEEL
07-05-2006, 06:56 AM
My great grandfather came to the USA from Italy he steped off a boat they handed him his paper work to become a part of this great land then they handed him some more paper work to become a private in the US army. He didnt speak english well but that didnt matter they needed him in the trenches of France. Great grandpa Frank spent less than 30 days on US soil before they loaded him on a boat to go back to Europe. I never heard him or heard of him bitching about the fact he fought in a war for a country that he was only a part of for 30 days. Now I bring this up to say this we should sue Mexico for 2 reasons; one. they help them folks across the border as fast as they can and when they get here we have nice little programs set up to pay for the doctors visits and there kids in school. They dont want to live in the USA to be a part of something great and bigger than thereselves they want to milk it for all its worth then go home. 2nd reason we should sue Mexico is their beer sucks all of it I been to cancun 3 times and all of the beer they have is not fit to pour on grilled chicken.

83-Steelers-43
07-05-2006, 08:56 AM
2nd reason we should sue Mexico is their beer sucks all of it I been to cancun 3 times and all of the beer they have is not fit to pour on grilled chicken.

I like a cold Negra Modelo.

As for the rest of your comments on Mexico, I agree fully.

Ambridge
07-05-2006, 09:17 AM
I will call for a total boycott of Mexican goods and no travel to your country.

That about equates to suing a street bum for a million dollars.

X-Terminator
07-05-2006, 09:36 AM
That's about equates to suing a street bum for a million dollars.

:sofunny:

Let them sue, but with this caveat - if they lose, and they will, then we get brand new, fully electrified fences at all our borders topped with barbed wire - on THEIR dime.

Training our border patrol personnel on how to spot fake paperwork wouldn't hurt either.

lamberts-lost-tooth
07-05-2006, 11:29 AM
To be honest, I posted the article b/c I thought it would turn out to be a humorous thread.

It's like one neighbor's family sneaks into the neighbor's house to eat and steal everything they may want and then sue the family for putting locks on the doors. :rolleyes:

What we need are "locks" on the doors.


I have said it before so you know how I feel ..but for those who have not jumped on the "lamberts plan for stopping illegal immigrants"...Here goes:

1) We immediataly make citizens of any hard working Hispanic we find in this country.
2) For every One Hard working Hispanic found...we send One parasite sucking off our welfare system to Mexico
3) We sit back and watch Mexico built a wall.

83-Steelers-43
07-05-2006, 11:31 AM
:sofunny:

Let them sue, but with this caveat - if they lose, and they will, then we get brand new, fully electrified fences at all our borders topped with barbed wire - on THEIR dime.

Training our border patrol personnel on how to spot fake paperwork wouldn't hurt either.

Now that right there, is a beautiful idea!!!

CAH
07-05-2006, 06:28 PM
I have said it before so you know how I feel ..but for those who have not jumped on the "lamberts plan for stopping illegal immigrants"...Here goes:

1) We immediataly make citizens of any hard working Hispanic we find in this country.
2) For every One Hard working Hispanic found...we send One parasite sucking off our welfare system to Mexico
3) We sit back and watch Mexico built a wall.
We make citizens of no one. They're illegal, send them home and if they want to come back, do it legally.

They're lawbreakers. The keyword is ILLEGAL.

We shouldn't make fools of people who entered America legally and giving any illegal a pass is downright wrong.

tony hipchest
07-05-2006, 06:36 PM
We make citizens of no one. They're illegal, send them home and if they want to come back, do it legally.



you mean like having a child? we make citezens out of illegal's children every day.

CAH
07-05-2006, 06:48 PM
you mean like having a child? we make citezens out of illegal's children every day.
Seems like they're working to amend that law.

When the illegal parents are sent back, they have a choice to either take their kids(those born here) with them or leave them here.

Hawk Believer
07-05-2006, 06:58 PM
Bush's immigration plan was actually something of his that I thought was reasonable. It is a terrible precident that we would in a sense be rewarding people who had been here illegally by giving them "guest worker" status (though it does crack me up that he says this isn't amnesty). But I think we share culpability by allowing it to happen; laws obviously don't mean anything if they are not enforced and US businesses and consumers have been benefiting from cheap laborers we have let in.

It would be impossible to deport the millions of illegal immigrants. We are better offering some sort of amnesty and allowing those who register the opportunity to stay. Then we try to deport those who didn't register and actually try to contain the border to the south. That seems like the best plan for dealing with the issue from my admittedly simplisitic armchair view.

The people who I feel bad for are those who actually played the game and waded through the beauracracy to enter the country legally. I was working recently with a man from Malaysia. He had worked there as an RAF jet mechanic and then spent 12 years trying to move to the US. So I asked him how he flet about those who have circumvented the process. Being the good Buddhist that he is, he basically said he tries not to let other people's actions bother him and just focus on inmproving his own journey. Cool to see a guy walking the talk.

Hawk Believer
07-05-2006, 07:04 PM
Seems like they're working to amend that law.

When the illegal parents are sent back, they have a choice to either take their kids(those born here) with them or leave them here.
This topic I find pretty fascinating. My feeling is that this citizenship by birth was added to the Constitution to ensure that our fledging country would maintain a citizen population adaquate to sustain a vibrant, growing country. But now that manifest destiny seems to have run its course, are we due for an amendment that says people only become citizens if they are born of a citizen? I guess we wouldn't even be worrying about it if we controlled our border.

CAH
07-05-2006, 10:00 PM
It would be impossible to deport the millions of illegal immigrants. We are better offering some sort of amnesty and allowing those who register the opportunity to stay. Then we try to deport those who didn't register and actually try to contain the border to the south. That seems like the best plan for dealing with the issue from my admittedly simplisitic armchair view.
Impossible? You move a mountain by starting with moving one rock. I don't care if they go underground or not but when one is found, they're gone. They are getting away with breaking more laws other than entering illegally.

If illegals constantly have to hide, they'll leave.

Do you realize how much they are costing the American taxpayer? They steal social security numbers, which cheats the person who owned that number. They are felons and not one should be given amnesty.

If they get amnesty, what would be the difference with that and opening our prisons. At least the criminals in prison are citizens.

tony hipchest
07-05-2006, 10:08 PM
Impossible? You move a mountain by starting with moving one rock. I don't care if they go underground or not but when one is found, they're gone. They are getting away with breaking more laws other than entering illegally.

.

to bad the same fervor dont exist in finding osama.

"bigger fish to fry"

what about the drug dealers and drug users? are they breaking more laws than these illegals? should we keep releasing rapists an murderers to house them? is the "war on drugs still costing us millions?

dont we still have to send a man to mars?

CAH
07-05-2006, 10:17 PM
to bad the same fervor dont exist in finding osama.

"bigger fish to fry"

what about the drug dealers and drug users? are they breaking more laws than these illegals? should we keep releasing rapists an murderers to house them? is the "war on drugs still costing us millions?

dont we still have to send a man to mars?
Aw, come on. People who are felons should get time behind bars or whatever fits. Illegals are lawbreakers, too. Can't put them behind bars. Throw them out of the country.

Truthfully, I really think Osama is dead. Just a feeling.

tony hipchest
07-05-2006, 10:25 PM
Truthfully, I really think Osama is dead. Just a feeling.

:rofl:

that sure would save bush jr. alot of face huh?

CAH
07-05-2006, 10:35 PM
:rofl:

that sure would save bush jr. alot of face huh?
I can't figure out this hang-up over Osama. LOL You must be a Democrat.

IF Osama is alive, he'd be hiding in the mountains and not even a mountain goat could find him there. He's useless as far as planning is concerned b/c his communication would almost useless.

tony hipchest
07-05-2006, 10:38 PM
IF Osama is alive, he'd be hiding in the mountains and not even a mountain goat could find him there. He's useless as far as planning is concerned b/c his communication would almost useless.


"You move a mountain by starting with moving one rock." -CAH

:busted: :sofunny:

a mountain goat would have a better shot at finding him than GW looking in iraq

CAH
07-05-2006, 10:43 PM
"You move a mountain by starting with moving one rock." -CAH

:busted: :sofunny:

a mountain goat would have a better shot at finding him than GW looking in iraq
Your writing is like a far-left blog and that ain't good. :flipoff: :smile:

tony hipchest
07-05-2006, 10:49 PM
Your writing is like a far-left blog and that ain't good. :flipoff: :smile: i wouldnt know. i dont check out "far left blogs".

im sure youre overconsumed with them judging by your writing though :busted:

i get that you dont like your own assanine quote being used against you though. :smile:

CAH
07-05-2006, 10:49 PM
Tony, I have to go but this is for you in case you are going to continue this.

http://www.millan.net/anims/giffar/drow.gif

tony hipchest
07-05-2006, 11:01 PM
Tony, I have to go but this is for you in case you are going to continue this.

http://www.millan.net/anims/giffar/drow.gif

please, call me "syringe" :sofunny:

Hawk Believer
07-06-2006, 01:40 AM
Impossible? You move a mountain by starting with moving one rock. I don't care if they go underground or not but when one is found, they're gone. They are getting away with breaking more laws other than entering illegally.

If illegals constantly have to hide, they'll leave.

Do you realize how much they are costing the American taxpayer? They steal social security numbers, which cheats the person who owned that number. They are felons and not one should be given amnesty.

If they get amnesty, what would be the difference with that and opening our prisons. At least the criminals in prison are citizens.
Its admitedly wrong to lie about a social security #, but I don't see how that is costing us $. They are paying into social security but not collecting it. Its put billions of dollars of uncollected social security dollars into a fund that rightnow the government is sitting on because they don't know what to do with it. Some say we'll use it to keep social security afloat if needed.

I don't claim to know the end math of cost vs. pay in for illegals, but they definately are paying some taxes.


I see a big difference between felons in prison and illegal aliens. Most felons committed a crime that no normal member of society benfited from nor wanted them to do. Illegal workers are encouraged by many industries in the US to be here. Yes, that screws over some US workers because the illegal workers drive down wages and condititions. But again, our goverment and we as consumers are all complicit with illegal hiring so we can keep the cost of lettuce low. However none of us are benefiting from or encouraging the behavior of rapists in prison.

I think you could argue that our decades long refusal to enforce immigration law could lead to a strong argument that our exisiting law is anachronistic, like an old blue law that has been on the books for 100 years but hasn't been enforced for the last 70.

And yes, I really think it is not reasonably possible to round up 12 million illegal aliens and deport them. Imagine the cost and beuracracy it would take. Imagine the cost to legal citizens freedom as they were incorreclty processed. And what this would do to the courts as people were given fair hearings. Plus, stones are easier to move than people who areassinilating into our society. Plus Wall Street would freak out when that much labor was removed from the country. 12 million people. Thats almost 4% of the population. And they have a high concentrtinon of able bodied workers in that group.

Thats why I agree with Bush in this case; I haven't seen any reasonable plan presented to extricate 12 million members of our society yet.

CAH
07-06-2006, 03:52 PM
Its admitedly wrong to lie about a social security #, but I don't see how that is costing us $. They are paying into social security but not collecting it. Its put billions of dollars of uncollected social security dollars into a fund that rightnow the government is sitting [on because they don't know what to do with it. Some say we'll use it to keep social security afloat if needed.
If one of the illegals got and used your social security number, they would be entitled to collect on what you've paid into the program. That is theft.

I don't claim to know the end math of cost vs. pay in for illegals, but they definately are paying some taxes.
If the employer is collecting taxes from them, he has to account for taxes paid when he turns it in to the government. If they are illegal, their papers are fraudulent and NO taxes can be paid by them b/c they don't exist so the government gets none of their money (which I don't believe they pay). I've worked with payroll for 20 years and records that can't pass an audit, won't fly. The ONLY taxes they pay is sales tax unless they steal the items they want.


I see a big difference between felons in prison and illegal aliens. Most felons committed a crime that no normal member of society benfited from nor wanted them to do. Illegal workers are encouraged by many industries in the US to be here. Yes, that screws over some US workers because the illegal workers drive down wages and condititions. But again, our goverment and we as consumers are all complicit with illegal hiring so we can keep the cost of lettuce low. However none of us are benefiting from or encouraging the behavior of rapists in prison.
You would not believe the crimes the illegals commit and can not be prosecuted for. People in prison have committed crimes of every nature from murder to rape to theft. Those are crimes the illegals commit and we allow most to go free or if incarcerated, we pay for their existence. When free they get welfare, free health care, free schooling through 12th grade and they pay a very low rate for college. Bet you'd like a college education for less than half the cost.

I think you could argue that our decades long refusal to enforce immigration law could lead to a strong argument that our exisiting law is anachronistic, like an old blue law that has been on the books for 100 years but hasn't been enforced for the last 70.

And yes, I really think it is not reasonably possible to round up 12 million illegal aliens and deport them. Imagine the cost and beuracracy it would take. Imagine the cost to legal citizens freedom as they were incorreclty processed. And what this would do to the courts as people were given fair hearings. Plus, stones are easier to move than people who areassinilating into our society. Plus Wall Street would freak out when that much labor was removed from the country. 12 million people. Thats almost 4% of the population. And they have a high concentrtinon of able bodied workers in that group.

Thats why I agree with Bush in this case; I haven't seen any reasonable plan presented to extricate 12 million members of our society yet.
This is one thing I don't agree with Bush. If this country got overrun with 50 million rats, I'll bet we'd find a way to get all of them.

Coming here to work with crops at low wages is actually another name to slavery and it isn't true that no one would work for that kind of money. Hundreds of kids in my area spent the summers in tobacco fields to earn money(not union wages) and they will work. Very few illegals work with crops. Most are in construction, clerks, warehouses, waiters/waitresses, cleaning, etc.

CowherLover
07-06-2006, 07:28 PM
I can't figure out this hang-up over Osama. LOL You must be a Democrat.

IF Osama is alive, he'd be hiding in the mountains and not even a mountain goat could find him there. He's useless as far as planning is concerned b/c his communication would almost useless.
You have got to be kidding me!
:pissed:
How in the hell were you even able to type that RIDICULOUS statement?! :dang:

Hawk Believer
07-06-2006, 09:44 PM
Illegal aliens currently can't collect social security because the number they use won't match up with all their other personal info. Text below is from this link:http://www.tscl.org/NewContent/102648.asp

According to an analysis by Knight Ridder Newspapers and The Charlotte Observer, one internal study found that a restaurant company had submitted 4,100 duplicate Social Security numbers for workers. One child’s Social Security number was used 742 times by workers in 42 states. When this happens, the Social Security Administration places the earnings reports for names and Social Security numbers on W-2s that don’t match Social Security’s records, in an "earnings suspense file." If an immigrant later gets a valid Social Security number and has maintained good records, he or she can have Social Security electronically match those earnings records from the earnings suspense files. The work credits while illegal will be reinstated to their accounts.


So the last part of the paragraph alludes to what might happen if amnesty is given to exisiting illegal workers. There are many legislative movements to give illegal aliens access to the billions they have paid into social security.

I think CAH and I might agree that seems crazy. I can't imagine ever expecting to get social security back from a country I was working in illegally.


Following text from this link:http://www.immigrationforum.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=724
Using data from the Census Bureau's current population survey, Steven Camarota, director of research at the Center for Immigration Studies, an advocacy group in Washington that favors more limits on immigration, estimated that 3.8 million households headed by illegal immigrants generated $6.4 billion in Social Security taxes in 2002.

Illegal immigrants help even more because they will never collect benefits. According to Mr. Goss, without the flow of payroll taxes from wages in the suspense file, the system's long-term funding hole over 75 years would be 10 percent deeper.


So back in the 80s, the government passed legislation that made it so employers had to provide social security numbers for all employees. Then people started using fake #s. A massive spike in social security funds that could not be matched to the people paying in occurred. The governement has been collecting the money and not doing anything to go after the illegal workers. Seems like a symbiotic system to me. The government turns a blind eye to workers they know are illegal so the projected social security defict will be 10% smaller.

CAH
07-06-2006, 10:43 PM
You have got to be kidding me!
:pissed:
How in the hell were you even able to type that RIDICULOUS statement?! :dang:
Hey, CL, you didn't have to reply to it but I appreciate your thoughts.:cheers:

tony hipchest
07-06-2006, 10:51 PM
You have got to be kidding me!
:pissed:
How in the hell were you even able to type that RIDICULOUS statement?! :dang:

definitely one of the most ignorant responses ive ever received on a message board, but appearantly pablo, juan, and jorge picking lettuce in the field is a much more immenent problem.

CAH
07-06-2006, 10:56 PM
Illegal aliens currently can't collect social security because the number they use won't match up with all their other personal info. Text below is from this link:http://www.tscl.org/NewContent/102648.asp



So the last part of the paragraph alludes to what might happen if amnesty is given to exisiting illegal workers. There are many legislative movements to give illegal aliens access to the billions they have paid into social security.

I think CAH and I might agree that seems crazy. I can't imagine ever expecting to get social security back from a country I was working in illegally.


Following text from this link:http://www.immigrationforum.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=724


So back in the 80s, the government passed legislation that made it so employers had to provide social security numbers for all employees. Then people started using fake #s. A massive spike in social security funds that could not be matched to the people paying in occurred. The governement has been collecting the money and not doing anything to go after the illegal workers. Seems like a symbiotic system to me. The government turns a blind eye to workers they know are illegal so the projected social security defict will be 10% smaller.

Using data from the Census Bureau's current population survey, Steven Camarota, director of research at the Center for Immigration Studies, an advocacy group in Washington that favors more limits on immigration, estimated that 3.8 million households headed by illegal immigrants generated $6.4 billion in Social Security taxes in 2002.
How did the Census Bureau know they were illegal?????

You previously said that booting millions of illegals would be impossible and saying illegals generated $6.4 billion in Social Security taxes. Well there they are so pick them up and kick their butts out. They also have to have the employers so bust them.

None of this makes sense to me. First we couldn't find nor kick out illegals and next they're on record for paying taxes. Now I'm certain they can be ejected from the U.S.A.

tony hipchest
07-06-2006, 11:06 PM
[b]

None of this makes sense to me. First we couldn't find nor kick out illegals and next they're on record for paying taxes. Now I'm certain they can be ejected from the U.S.A. see the part about it being a symbiotic system. rep radicals would just rather have you believe all these illegals are such a danger, sucking billions of dollars off the system. it detracts from the taxbreaks people like the enron executives are receiving.

Hawk Believer
07-06-2006, 11:20 PM
Using data from the Census Bureau's current population survey, Steven Camarota, director of research at the Center for Immigration Studies, an advocacy group in Washington that favors more limits on immigration, estimated that 3.8 million households headed by illegal immigrants generated $6.4 billion in Social Security taxes in 2002.
How did the Census Bureau know they were illegal?????

You previously said that booting millions of illegals would be impossible and saying illegals generated $6.4 billion in Social Security taxes. Well there they are so pick them up and kick their butts out. They also have to have the employers so bust them.

None of this makes sense to me. First we couldn't find nor kick out illegals and next they're on record for paying taxes. Now I'm certain they can be ejected from the U.S.A.
From one of the previously linked articles:

In 2002 alone, the last year with figures released by the Social Security Administration, nine million W-2's with incorrect Social Security numbers landed in the suspense file, accounting for $56 billion in earnings, or about 1.5 percent of total reported wages.

Social Security officials do not know what fraction of the suspense file corresponds to the earnings of illegal immigrants. But they suspect that the portion is significant.

"Our assumption is that about three-quarters of other-than-legal immigrants pay payroll taxes," said Stephen C. Goss, Social Security's chief actuary, using the agency's term for illegal immigration.

Other researchers say illegal immigrants are the main contributors to the suspense file. "Illegal immigrants account for the vast majority of the suspense file," said Nick Theodore, the director of the Center for Urban Economic Development at the University of Illinois at Chicago. "Especially its growth over the 1990's, as more and more undocumented immigrants entered the work force."

I can't speak to the exact methodology, but it looks like they are extrapolating estimates of illegal workers contributions from macro level data. They don't know who the individuals are who are contributing, they just know there are a heck of a lot of em.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry about the term "other than legal immigrants".

I agree that employers should bear some of the responsibility. Especially the ones that are providing or facilitating use of fake social security numbers. But many employers make valid arguments that the onus of determining a person's immigration status should not be on them but rather the government. If a worker provides a number and fake ID, how are they supposed to check it? If the government was ever serious about preventing illegal immigration they would have made real system for employers to use to check status.

CAH
07-06-2006, 11:22 PM
see the part about it being a symbiotic system. rep radicals would just rather have you believe all these illegals are such a danger, sucking billions of dollars off the system. it detracts from the taxbreaks people like the enron executives are receiving.
Talk to the people who live on the border and the hospitals that had to close for loss of money on illegals.

Do you really believe the illegals don't cost our taxpayers billions per year?

Hawk Believer
07-06-2006, 11:30 PM
Talk to the people who live on the border and the hospitals that had to close for loss of money on illegals.

Do you really believe the illegals don't cost our taxpayers billions per year?
I think Tony lives in New Mexico.
http://www.bustedtees.com/bt/images/BT-newmexico-gallery-165.jpg

CAH
07-06-2006, 11:30 PM
From one of the previously linked articles:


I can't speak to the exact methodology, but it looks like they are extrapolating estimates of illegal workers contributions from macro level data. They don't know who the individuals are who are contributing, they just know there are a heck of a lot of em.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry about the term "other than legal immigrants".

I agree that employers should bear some of the responsibility. Especially the ones that are providing or facilitating use of fake social security numbers. But many employers make valid arguments that the onus of determining a person's immigration status should not be on them but rather the government. If a worker provides a number and fake ID, how are they supposed to check it? If the government was ever serious about preventing illegal immigration they would have made real system for employers to use to check status.

For one thing, quite a few of the illegals refuse to learn English which was required when my grandparents came here. They demand Spanish teachers in schools. They work as clerks and get angry if you can't speak Spanish.

You must not have a very high opinion as to how smart our government is. Believe me, they are. In fact, when they had that protest, with all their Mexican flags waving, (in America) we could have rounded up quite a few of them.

CAH
07-06-2006, 11:33 PM
I think Tony lives in New Mexico.
http://www.bustedtees.com/bt/images/BT-newmexico-gallery-165.jpg
Let's kick out Tony. He's probably illegal.:buttkick:

Hawk Believer
07-06-2006, 11:47 PM
For one thing, quite a few of the illegals refuse to learn English which was required when my grandparents came here. They demand Spanish teachers in schools. They work as clerks and get angry if you can't speak Spanish.

Are you saying you are descended fro illegal immigrants?:sofunny: The whole ESL education debate is a totally seperate issue from the immigration enforcement. Even if illegals workers were removed, we'd still have that issue to deal with. And if a clerk is berating me for not speaking Spanish, I would complain to the managment and probably not go back if it wasn't dealt with. It seems the free market will sort out issues like that.

You must not have a very high opinion as to how smart our government is. Believe me, they are. In fact, when they had that protest, with all their Mexican flags waving, (in America) we could have rounded up quite a few of them.[/

Sounds like an argument for bigger government. Its gonna take a whole lot of government workers to deport even 1 percent of the current illegal population. I think our government has a lot of smart people in it, but I don't think they can go back and erase this problem they have let go on for so many decades.

tony hipchest
07-06-2006, 11:47 PM
Talk to the people who live on the border and the hospitals that had to close for loss of money on illegals.

Do you really believe the illegals don't cost our taxpayers billions per year? lets see. you live in uniontown pa. i live 90 miles from juarez. wtf are you talking about?

one of my employees was a typical wetback (meaning they actually swam across the rio grande and trecked through the desert.) not knowing a lick of english they got an under the table paying job and worked in a junkyard. he repeatedly made the treck back to mexico to deliver money to his mother and siblings.

he married an american, helped support her blind daughter, and had 2 american children of his own. the govt. allowed him to stay. while he worked for me i saw him get his ged, finish college, and join the state police force. he was eventually offered a job in washington dc with the secret service as a linguistics specialist. he declined and joined the force in california where he had other family residing so he could assist them in achieving the american dream.

ive had over 200 employees who are naturalized, permanent resident aliens, or citizens who werent born in the states. my company has employed thousands more. i dont know how many got here by "illegal" means. all i know is most work harder than those who are born here and would rather mooch off the welfare system.

i think that drug addict r. limbaugh is polluting your brain.

tony hipchest
07-06-2006, 11:56 PM
I think Tony lives in New Mexico.
http://www.bustedtees.com/bt/images/BT-newmexico-gallery-165.jpg
sweet! they dont call it the land of enchantment for nuthin!

funny how with all this talk off illegals it doent seem to be much of a problem here in our meager state of 2 million people. some people who live in the 2nd state in the union, fail to recognize, ive met people who were alive before nm was even a state.

narrow mindedness :dang:

im sure some people would even think naitive americans are illegal aliens and cost the us govt billions of $$$'s

CAH
07-07-2006, 10:23 AM
Check on it for yourself, Tony. The illegals do cost American taxpayers billions per year with just welfare, health care and education. No use arguing with someone who probably learned Spanish to accomodate illegals and feels "guilt" about how these people deserve everything we can give them. Forget about the people who came here legally.

While you're at it, check into the Mexican rules on illegals going into their country and how they can achieve citizenship in Mexico.

X-Terminator
07-07-2006, 11:04 AM
lets see. you live in uniontown pa. i live 90 miles from juarez. wtf are you talking about?

one of my employees was a typical wetback (meaning they actually swam across the rio grande and trecked through the desert.) not knowing a lick of english they got an under the table paying job and worked in a junkyard. he repeatedly made the treck back to mexico to deliver money to his mother and siblings.

he married an american, helped support her blind daughter, and had 2 american children of his own. the govt. allowed him to stay. while he worked for me i saw him get his ged, finish college, and join the state police force. he was eventually offered a job in washington dc with the secret service as a linguistics specialist. he declined and joined the force in california where he had other family residing so he could assist them in achieving the american dream.

ive had over 200 employees who are naturalized, permanent resident aliens, or citizens who werent born in the states. my company has employed thousands more. i dont know how many got here by "illegal" means. all i know is most work harder than those who are born here and would rather mooch off the welfare system.

i think that drug addict r. limbaugh is polluting your brain.

The bolded part of your post pretty much guaranteed your employee's U.S. citizenship. But I don't think the people you describe here are ones people are getting so upset over - your employee crossed the border, yes, but he evidently had every intention of becoming a productive, hard-working, American citizen, while helping his family back in Mexico. Same goes for the others you and your company have hired. I can't see anyone having a problem with that. The ones who come here illegally, have no intention of becoming an American citizen or speak English, and then expect everyone and the goverment to cater them and kiss their asses (free health care, driver's licenses, welfare, etc.)...those are the ones who need to be told to naturalize or tell your story walking.

tony hipchest
07-07-2006, 11:55 AM
No use arguing with someone who probably learned Spanish to accomodate illegals and feels "guilt" about how these people deserve everything we can give them. Forget about the people who came here legally.

.

youre right. no use arguing with someone who gets all their info from a drug addicted, multimillionaire, spindoctor radio host rather than from real life experience.

the issue here isnt that illegals cost billions of $$$. the issue is your crazy assertions that we simply round them up and ship them back, and to prevent their return we fire bullets over their heads. that has about as good of a chance of happening as building a colony on mars and shipping them there.

btw i mostly, only know the cuss words in spanish and a few other phrases here and there. contrary to what rush has you brainwashed to believe, every school in the southwest is not required to teach spanish. but of course you are right, cause of all the right wing propaganda you believe, and i am wrong. i mustve been secretly and subliminally taught spanish without ever knowing it.

once again real life experience prevails. i live a fairly guilt free life.

CAH
07-07-2006, 06:20 PM
youre right. no use arguing with someone who gets all their info from a drug addicted, multimillionaire, spindoctor radio host rather than from real life experience.

the issue here isnt that illegals cost billions of $$$. the issue is your crazy assertions that we simply round them up and ship them back, and to prevent their return we fire bullets over their heads. that has about as good of a chance of happening as building a colony on mars and shipping them there.

btw i mostly, only know the cuss words in spanish and a few other phrases here and there. contrary to what rush has you brainwashed to believe, every school in the southwest is not required to teach spanish. but of course you are right, cause of all the right wing propaganda you believe, and i am wrong. i mustve been secretly and subliminally taught spanish without ever knowing it.

once again real life experience prevails. i live a fairly guilt free life.
Well, sweetie, I have this friend Kitty, who teaches elementary school in Texas. She said the biggest problem the school has is accommodating the Spanish illegals. They must have Spanish books b/c the little Mexicans can't speak English. Can't should be changed to won't since their parents do not want them to learn English.

They believe that most of America belongs to Mexico and we should learn Spanish and not the other way around. I say kick all their butts out, NOW. If you don't believe this, you missed reading the signs at their demonstration.

You called yourself an employer and I will bet anything that you hire many illegals.

tony hipchest
07-07-2006, 07:29 PM
You called yourself an employer and I will bet anything that you hire many illegals.

im sure that makes you feel good to believe, but unfortunately for you, you would lose that bet.

you see, i run million $$$ federal government contracts on one of the most tightly secured air force bases in america. ever since 9/11 i have seen our homeland security $$$ spent 1st hand. my employees go through some of the most stringent security checks to be allowed access to the base. L.A.C.'s, N.C.I.C.'s, plus a run through the F.B.I. data base. what you dont know is that the risk of hiring an illegal, $12/hour employee, isnt worth losing a multi million $$$ preformance based contract (which means as long as we preform it doesnt go up for re-bid).

sounds like your friend lives in a shithole community that lacks the balls to stand up for america. no wonder new mexicans think texas sucks. letting the mexicans rule their school systems??? :dang: it is the school systems responsibility to teach THEIR curriculum. either the mexican parents you speak of are the ones paying the majority of the taxes and the ones voting, or kittys local govt needs to put their foot down and enforce english. otherwise, tell the parents to homeschool their kids if they refuse to get with the program. maybe bush will give them vouchers to go to a spanish speaking private school.

SteelShooter
07-07-2006, 08:38 PM
Let them sue, but with this caveat - if they lose, and they will, then we get brand new, fully electrified fences at all our borders topped with barbed wire - on THEIR dime.

Training our border patrol personnel on how to spot fake paperwork wouldn't hurt either.


You probably do not believe it, but the Immigration guys are actually pretty good with the paperwork. I do volunteer work at the border on holiday/long weekends, acting as a military liaison (lots of military crossing into Tijuana to party) and watch them quite a bit. When someone is caught with bad/false paperwork it is recorded in a database...in case they try again later with better paperwork.

These guys really are pretty good. Unfortunately, they are too few stretched over way too many miles or way too many people pouring through the entry points.

I still like Lamberts 3 steps.......that's Cool!

tony hipchest
07-07-2006, 08:53 PM
You probably do not believe it, but the Immigration guys are actually pretty good with the paperwork. I do volunteer work at the border on holiday/long weekends, acting as a military liaison (lots of military crossing into Tijuana to party) and watch them quite a bit. When someone is caught with bad/false paperwork it is recorded in a database...in case they try again later with better paperwork.

These guys really are pretty good. Unfortunately, they are too few stretched over way too many miles or way too many people pouring through the entry points.

I still like Lamberts 3 steps.......that's Cool! great point. thats why i think 6000 troops stationned along the fences to fire shots over the heads of potential intruders is really a waste of rescources. swimming a river, scaling a fence, and trecking through the desert is really one of the most difficult and desperate means of an illegal finding their way into this country.

SteelShooter
07-07-2006, 08:54 PM
im sure that makes you feel good to believe, but unfortunately for you, you would lose that bet.

you see, i run million $$$ federal government contracts on one of the most tightly secured air force bases in america. ever since 9/11 i have seen our homeland security $$$ spent 1st hand. my employees go through some of the most stringent security checks to be allowed access to the base. L.A.C.'s, N.C.I.C.'s, plus a run through the F.B.I. data base. what you dont know is that the risk of hiring an illegal, $12/hour employee, isnt worth losing a multi million $$$ preformance based contract (which means as long as we preform it doesnt go up for re-bid).

sounds like your friend lives in a shithole community that lacks the balls to stand up for america. no wonder new mexicans think texas sucks. letting the mexicans rule their school systems??? :dang: it is the school systems responsibility to teach THEIR curriculum. either the mexican parents you speak of are the ones paying the majority of the taxes and the ones voting, or kittys local govt needs to put their foot down and enforce english. otherwise, tell the parents to homeschool their kids if they refuse to get with the program. maybe bush will give them vouchers to go to a spanish speaking private school.

Bro, I'm with you on most of this. But the "Texas sucks" comment was not necessary. That is my homeland and I tend to hold it quite reverently within my heart. The problem that CAH describes is also being experienced in California, Arizona, Louisiana, etc...
Most of this is being pushed by the bleeding heart liberals. The same ones who want religion wiped from anything public, or will not allow the disciplining of your own children in public, and so on.

Uh-Oh ...I think I just started a whole new argument.......... <jk>

SteelShooter
07-07-2006, 09:01 PM
great point. thats why i think 6000 troops stationned along the fences to fire shots over the heads of potential intruders is really a waste of rescources. swimming a river, scaling a fence, and trecking through the desert is really one of the most difficult and desperate means of an illegal finding their way into this country.


I agree. You know, this has always been a problem, but did not receive this amount of attention until GWOT (Global War On Terrorism for those that do not recognize the acronym).
The biggest concern, of mine, is that of if we cannot stop someone who is (typically, not to stereotype) on the lower end of the education spectrum, with no real financial backing, and no support network............how can we bar someone with large amounts of financial backing, decent education, and a "probable" sleeper support network in place from entering our Nation to perform acts if ill will.

Man, I really enjoy your posts, by the way...........

tony hipchest
07-07-2006, 09:05 PM
Bro, I'm with you on most of this. But the "Texas sucks" comment was not necessary. That is my homeland and I tend to hold it quite reverently within my heart. The problem that CAH describes is also being experienced in California, Arizona, Louisiana, etc...
Most of this is being pushed by the bleeding heart liberals. The same ones who want religion wiped from anything public, or will not allow the disciplining of your own children in public, and so on.

Uh-Oh ...I think I just started a whole new argument.......... <jk> yeah i realize you hail from texas and there has always been a long rivalry between texans and new mexicans. i think alot has to do with us using up all the rio grande water and texans being the big dogs in the neighborhood, and littering on our highways, driving like maniacs and taking over our tourist spots. nothing personnal. most of my hatred for texas stems from the dallas cowboys and growing up having to watch their crappy assed teams play every single sunday due to regionnal coverage and all the local cowboy fans.

never mind odessa- permian (friday night lights) whipping our ass once a year.

and since im not a bleeding heart liberal, i can say that wiping religion from anything public is one reason we all are on a downward path. "to hell in a handbasket" for lack of better words.

X-Terminator
07-07-2006, 09:54 PM
You probably do not believe it, but the Immigration guys are actually pretty good with the paperwork. I do volunteer work at the border on holiday/long weekends, acting as a military liaison (lots of military crossing into Tijuana to party) and watch them quite a bit. When someone is caught with bad/false paperwork it is recorded in a database...in case they try again later with better paperwork.

These guys really are pretty good. Unfortunately, they are too few stretched over way too many miles or way too many people pouring through the entry points.

I still like Lamberts 3 steps.......that's Cool!

Well then I stand corrected and apologize for talking out of my ass :smile: I still think Mexico should foot the bill for our new fences if they sue us and lose though!

SteelShooter
07-08-2006, 12:24 AM
Well then I stand corrected and apologize for talking out of my ass :smile: I still think Mexico should foot the bill for our new fences if they sue us and lose though!

I'm with ya Bro! :thmbup:

SteelShooter
07-08-2006, 12:39 AM
yeah i realize you hail from texas and there has always been a long rivalry between texans and new mexicans. i think alot has to do with us using up all the rio grande water and texans being the big dogs in the neighborhood, and littering on our highways, driving like maniacs and taking over our tourist spots. nothing personnal. most of my hatred for texas stems from the dallas cowboys and growing up having to watch their crappy assed teams play every single sunday due to regionnal coverage and all the local cowboy fans.

never mind odessa- permian (friday night lights) whipping our ass once a year.

and since im not a bleeding heart liberal, i can say that wiping religion from anything public is one reason we all are on a downward path. "to hell in a handbasket" for lack of better words.


Sorry about the arses you have to deal with from my home. I guess there are jacka$$es in every state, even God's Country. :rolleyes:

I feel your pain concerning the Cowpukes. Living near Houston as a child, it was either the blue and silver on one side or that disgusting "Columbia Blue" that the Oilers wore on the other. And yes, I hated it as well. :evil:

No animosity towards NM from me. But then, I was on the opposite end of the State. ABout the only ones we hated on was Oklahoma.

By the way....did ya'll see on Fox the other night about that one town? Well, actually it was two towns, sister cities, right on the TX/OK border, almost a single larger town split by the river. Big football rivalry, a few fistfights a week and such.
I guess the Oklahoma Seniors started tossing dynamite across the river.
The reporters kept going on and on about the travesty. Really making a huge deal out of it.
As I was watching, I saw that it really amounted to nothing much at all. As the reporter kept droning on and on, I watched the scene behind him as the Texans would walk up to the shore of the river and laugh hysterically.
Then they would bend over, pick up the dynamite, light it, and throw it back................ :dang:

CAH
07-08-2006, 03:19 PM
Since some of you guys hail from the Oklahoma/Texas area, could you explain what this pic depicts? Got it from Google Earth and zoomed in on the Oklahoma panhandle.

Hawk Believer
07-08-2006, 04:18 PM
Isn't that just a picture of agricultural fields? The circles are fields that are watered by a radius style irrigation system. Or is there more to the onion that I haven't peeled? BTW, I am not pretending to be from the panhandle. Though my mom was born in Dalhart...

MasterOfPuppets
07-08-2006, 05:55 PM
[QUOTE=CAH]Check on it for yourself, Tony. The illegals do cost American taxpayers billions per year with just welfare, health care and education.

you forgot one...prison. i'm sure everybody has heard of the MS13 gang by now. they have over 50,000 members in the U.S., and most are thought to be illegals. one member alone was caught and deported 8 times before they finally nailed him with a murder charge.now the taxpayers get to pay for his stay in prison.its bad enough we have to pay for our own home grown dirtbags,but now we get to pay for other countrys as well.

CAH
07-08-2006, 07:31 PM
[QUOTE=CAH]Check on it for yourself, Tony. The illegals do cost American taxpayers billions per year with just welfare, health care and education.

you forgot one...prison. i'm sure everybody has heard of the MS13 gang by now. they have over 50,000 members in the U.S., and most are thought to be illegals. one member alone was caught and deported 8 times before they finally nailed him with a murder charge.now the taxpayers get to pay for his stay in prison.its bad enough we have to pay for our own home grown dirtbags,but now we get to pay for other countrys as well.
You are so right. They're all criminals b/c they're illegal but they commit so many felonies that we have to foot the bill for paying lawmen over and over since they are usually released.

CAH
07-08-2006, 07:35 PM
Post #68 puts me as the quoter instead of MasterOfPuppets.
How did it do that? :rolleyes: :eye: :eye: LMAO

CAH
07-08-2006, 07:38 PM
Isn't that just a picture of agricultural fields? The circles are fields that are watered by a radius style irrigation system. Or is there more to the onion that I haven't peeled? BTW, I am not pretending to be from the panhandle. Though my mom was born in Dalhart...
Do you have Google Earth? Amazing site.

If you don't, go to Google and type Google Earth. Download and it will be on your desktop.

Livinginthe past
07-09-2006, 05:27 AM
Post #68 puts me as the quoter instead of MasterOfPuppets.
How did it do that? :rolleyes: :eye: :eye: LMAO

Master of puppets caused the problem by not quoting you properly the first time - he didnt use the last parentheses.

Seen it a million times on here.

NM

CAH
07-09-2006, 11:06 AM
Master of puppets caused the problem by not quoting you properly the first time - he didnt use the last parentheses.

Seen it a million times on here.

NM
Thanks. For a moment, I thought I was in the Twilight Zone.

CAH
07-09-2006, 11:12 AM
Isn't that just a picture of agricultural fields? The circles are fields that are watered by a radius style irrigation system. Or is there more to the onion that I haven't peeled? BTW, I am not pretending to be from the panhandle. Though my mom was born in Dalhart...
Interesting. Sure wish one or two of you would download Google Earth so we could talk about it. When you get it, just type in any city in the world, including your own and you will be directed right to it. LOL Found my home and I live in the boondocks.

You'll love seeing Heinz Field from above. I'll post a pic of it after I get out of FireFox for awhile.

MattsMe
07-09-2006, 11:13 AM
Since some of you guys hail from the Oklahoma/Texas area, could you explain what this pic depicts? Got it from Google Earth and zoomed in on the Oklahoma panhandle.

I think HawkBeliever is right, they're pictures of fields. The panhandle is a very desolate place, nothing but flat fields for miles and miles. Actually, most of the state is that way.

CAH
07-09-2006, 11:24 AM
One view of Heinz Field from Google Earth:

tony hipchest
07-09-2006, 12:56 PM
Interesting. Sure wish one or two of you would download Google Earth so we could talk about it. When you get it, just type in any city in the world, including your own and you will be directed right to it. LOL Found my home and I live in the boondocks.

You'll love seeing Heinz Field from above. I'll post a pic of it after I get out of FireFox for awhile.awesome. ill have to download it.

my dad works for nasa controlling one of the satellites that is contracted out to take these images. after the hurricaine in new orleans he sent me links of the before and after pictures of the flooding. if i still have them in my email ill post them up.

you should check out white sands in new mexico (near holloman afb). its one of few national landmarks that can be spotted from outerspace and because of this is an alternate landing site for the space shuttle.

3 to be 4
07-09-2006, 01:00 PM
I once did a google satellite of Carney Wilson and you could see her clear as day.

CowherLover
07-09-2006, 01:05 PM
Google Earth is an awesome program. It took awhile to download but was well worth it. I haven't messed around on it for awhile, thanks for bringin it up.

SteelShooter
07-09-2006, 01:28 PM
Since some of you guys hail from the Oklahoma/Texas area, could you explain what this pic depicts? Got it from Google Earth and zoomed in on the Oklahoma panhandle.

CAH...it looks to be an extremely poor mosaic. Some of these sat. shots are mosaics from different satellite passes...even different times. Different lighting, or even comepletely different satellites altogether. Sooooooo......all of these differences, including different satellites use different radiational frequencies, drum up to a picture/photo that comes out like this. Although, this seems to be an extreme case............

CAH
07-09-2006, 03:44 PM
Google Earth shots in Arizona near New Mexico. Guess this is where old airplanes go to die.

tony hipchest
07-09-2006, 04:11 PM
Google Earth shots in Arizona near New Mexico. Guess this is where old airplanes go to die.
thats the graveyard at davis monthan afb in tucson. i lived about a 5 minute walk from those planes for 2 years. its really cool. every plane imaginable is in there. its known as the most valuable junkyard on earth.

CAH
07-09-2006, 08:56 PM
thats the graveyard at davis monthan afb in tucson. i lived about a 5 minute walk from those planes for 2 years. its really cool. every plane imaginable is in there. its known as the most valuable junkyard on earth.
The pics I posted are just a small part of that graveyard. Some shots show how planes are being dismantled with wings laying separately from the planes.

You should also go to Mt St Helens and look down into the volcano. By rotating the pic, the depth of that thing is awesome. Same as Mt Everest and the Grand Canyon for seeing the depth and shear drops. Brrrr Did I mention, I'm afraid of heights? :rolleyes: