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former RB
01-21-2012, 12:16 AM
Ever since I've been a Steeler fan, I always seem to take a liking to the guys who get emotional and show some fire on the field.

All of my favorite players from years gone by were firey players. Robin Cole, Gary Dunn, Keith Willis, Jack Lambert, Lethon Flowers, Hardy Nickerson, Greg Lloyd, Ernie Mills, Dirt Winston, Dwight White, Joe Greene, Joey Porter, Leon Searcy, Leroy Thompson, Craig Wolfley, Joel Steed, Dwayne Woodruff, Donnie Shell, Bryan Hinkle.
Those guys played with a chip on their shoulder every week.

Thats something that i don't see from these current guys. Harrison is emotional and firey, but there are no other firey guys for him to feed, or for Harrison to feed off of.

Greg Lloyd used to almost "will" the team to win.
Bubby Brister was another firey guy, he sucked as a QB, but he always played angry.

Woodson proved that you can play mad and still play at the highest level.

You don't need to be big either, Ernie Mills, Troy Edwards, and Randle-El had short fuses. I couldn't name 3 firey guys on this team anymore. Farrior used to be, but I guess he is done now. I know the team missed Farriors usual emotional leadership this year.

Tomlin isn't firey or emotional, thats why i think the team plays so emotionless.
they say the team reflects the coach.

tony hipchest
01-21-2012, 12:49 AM
tomlin is way more similar to chuck noll than bill cowher.

we should bring back santonio holmes for all the people who want "emotion" and "fire".

kemoeatu has that of which you speak. so did jeff reed. hines ward is about as emotional as it gets.

you didnt even bother mentioning jerome bettis in your post. :confused: WTF?

troy edwards sucked. ryan clark is a fuel fed wrecking ball. antionio brown points and drops the ball after a 1st down. keisel does the bow and arrow. woodley does the flying sidekick. ike taylor waves his hand infront of his face.

what more emotion do you want?

johnny depp in chocholate?

:coffee: overrated.

former RB
01-21-2012, 10:48 AM
tomlin is way more similar to chuck noll than bill cowher.

we should bring back santonio holmes for all the people who want "emotion" and "fire".

kemoeatu has that of which you speak. so did jeff reed. hines ward is about as emotional as it gets.

you didnt even bother mentioning jerome bettis in your post. :confused: WTF?

troy edwards sucked. ryan clark is a fuel fed wrecking ball. antionio brown points and drops the ball after a 1st down. keisel does the bow and arrow. woodley does the flying sidekick. ike taylor waves his hand infront of his face.

what more emotion do you want?

johnny depp in chocholate?

:coffee: overrated.

Kemoeatu shows flashs of anger, but doesn't always play, and if he isn't in the game, he hasn't fanned the fire that I've seen. Jeff Reed is a gone kicker, Hines Ward is done and didn't get involved much this year,[smiling all the time isn't firey is it?]. Dropping the ball and pointing , bow and arrow, and hand waves aren't what I'm talking about. Bettis could have made the list, he certainly was the type I'm talking about..
I know Troy Edwards was a minor bust, too much was expected from him, i think.
I'm talking about guys who you could "feel" during the entire game. I like Clark too much to disagree with you about him.
What I'm talking about is something that is hard to put in words. When some sharks are swimming together, all it takes is for one of them to drop his side fins and hump his back, and the whole group goes into a feeding freenzy - because they can feel him.

Some players make a play and like to do a "hey, look at me thing", and then their emotion settles until they have another moment. I'm talking about guys who want to go into a feeding frenzy because the opponent got a first down, or we had to punt.

Infectious emotion, for 60 minutes, head butting attack mode, flying around and pumped from locker room to locker room.

Woodley does a flying sidekick when he gets a sack, but doesn't inspire the other 99% of the time. Joey Porter did a stomp and kick, AND HE FED THE FLAMES THE OTHER 99% OF THE TIME.

GREG LLOYD DROPPED HIS FINS AND HUMPED HIS BACK IN THE LOCKER ROOM, AND KEPT IT LIKE THAT UNTIL HE WENT BACK INTO THE LOCKER ROOM AFTER THE GAME. THE TEAM PLAYED IN A FEEDING FRENZY.

TRH
01-21-2012, 10:55 AM
there's barely any, if any at all. Remember Lloyd and Porter completely firing this team up? That was SORELY lacking this year (and last year).

Good example? Even though you can look at all the games as examples, look no further than the defenses in the game at San Francisco.
Their guys = Mean, mad, foaming at the mouth, high-fiving, growling, and rabid out there
Our guys = kind of standing around, hangin' out, deer-in-headlights, looked like they just crawled out of bed

That was downright painful to watch. Whomever, if anyone, steps up, we need to come out looking like we want to be out there instead of the "this win is owed to us and we don't have to do anything" attitude thats been brewing around here...that much is clear.

former RB
01-21-2012, 11:06 AM
Chuck Noll was intense and demanding his first 11 years. He won 4 super bowls.
He was passive and unemotional his last 11 years. And won no more super bowls.

A firey coach like Madden and Parcells,Levy and Lombardi, are offset by guys like Shula, Walsh, Landry and Gibbs. Belichick is probably the best of all of them.

I think Mike Tomlin shows a lack of emotion that is mirrored by the team. He is a defensive mind, but the defense is coached by LeBeau- the best in the game.

Take LeBeau out of the equation the past 4 years that Tomlin has been there, and I don't think the steeler have a winning record in any of those years.

The steelers win IN SPITE OF Tomlin. Just like they won 2 super Bowls IN SPITE OF Big Ben. Roethlisberger has played in 3 super bowls so far, and hasn't had a good game yet. We should have lost the one against seattle, santonio saved us against arizona, and Ben played bad against the Packers - and Lebeaus D had a bad day. Just like in denver.

mesaSteeler
01-21-2012, 11:12 AM
Chuck Noll was intense and demanding his first 11 years. He won 4 super bowls.
He was passive and unemotional his last 11 years. And won no more super bowls.

A firey coach like Madden and Parcells,Levy and Lombardi, are offset by guys like Shula, Walsh, Landry and Gibbs. Belichick is probably the best of all of them.

I think Mike Tomlin shows a lack of emotion that is mirrored by the team. He is a defensive mind, but the defense is coached by LeBeau- the best in the game.

Take LeBeau out of the equation the past 4 years that Tomlin has been there, and I don't think the steeler have a winning record in any of those years.

The steelers win IN SPITE OF Tomlin. Just like they won 2 super Bowls IN SPITE OF Big Ben. Roethlisberger has played in 3 super bowls so far, and hasn't had a good game yet. We should have lost the one against seattle, santonio saved us against arizona, and Ben played bad against the Packers - and Lebeaus D had a bad day. Just like in denver.

Gotta agree with you. I just said this same thing in another thread. I'm not very impressed with Tomlin.

former RB
01-21-2012, 11:17 AM
there's barely any, if any at all. Remember Lloyd and Porter completely firing this team up? That was SORELY lacking this year (and last year).

Good example? Even though you can look at all the games as examples, look no further than the defenses in the game at San Francisco.
Their guys = Mean, mad, foaming at the mouth, high-fiving, growling, and rabid out there
Our guys = kind of standing around, hangin' out, deer-in-headlights, looked like they just crawled out of bed

That was downright painful to watch. Whomever, if anyone, steps up, we need to come out looking like we want to be out there instead of the "this win is owed to us and we don't have to do anything" attitude thats been brewing around here...that much is clear.

Here's to hoping that Ziggy and Cam can step into the Greg Lloyd zone. Crezdon Butler might have it too. Sylvester looks emotional too.

I just feel it waaaay down deep in my heart that Tomlin is a bad influence as far as inspiring 60 minutes of emotion goes. Maybe the players don't respect him because they feel he is getting a free ride on Lebeaus back. He brings nothing to the table offensively, and special teams always makes me cringe.

Tomlin might be a good defensive coach, I don't know. But I don't get the vibe that players want to win for him.

The thing that makes great coachs, great coachs, is that players want to win for them.

mesaSteeler
01-21-2012, 11:26 AM
Here's to hoping that Ziggy and Cam can step into the Greg Lloyd zone. Crezdon Butler might have it too. Sylvester looks emotional too.

I just feel it waaaay down deep in my heart that Tomlin is a bad influence as far as inspiring 60 minutes of emotion goes. Maybe the players don't respect him because they feel he is getting a free ride on Lebeaus back. He brings nothing to the table offensively, and special teams always makes me cringe.

Tomlin might be a good defensive coach, I don't know. But I don't get the vibe that players want to win for him.

The thing that makes great coachs, great coachs, is that players want to win for them.

The other thing about great coaches is that they lead and hold players responsible for their performance. Tomlin just seems to me to be a rah rah, let me be your best friend, summer camp councilor, type of coach and not a true leader.

FrancoLambert
01-21-2012, 12:11 PM
The other thing about great coaches is that they lead and hold players responsible for their performance. Tomlin just seems to me to be a rah rah, let me be your best friend, summer camp councilor, type of coach and not a true leader.

Yes, he wants to be "one of the boys." This approach doesn't work in parenting, teaching, or coaching. True, he doesn't seem to be the fiery type (although his rhetoric and vocabulary can be at times). However, if I had a choice for Tomlin to "show growth" as a coach I would hope for "coaching improvement" (game management, calling a TO from the sidelines, in-game adjustments, exploiting match-ups) over more emotional involvement (yelling, screaming, and spitting). The former wins more games.

Bayz101
01-21-2012, 12:51 PM
I have to agree with you on this one. Were lacking our emotional leadership this year, and we've really been missing it for a few years now. I remember in '08 there was lots of hype going around, lot's of emotion. "It's a five star matchup, cause we in it!". In '05 Joey Porter really hyped this team up in the lockeroom. Miss that guy.

Steelerfreak58
01-21-2012, 12:53 PM
"Unleash Hell?"

Bayz101
01-21-2012, 12:53 PM
The other thing about great coaches is that they lead and hold players responsible for their performance. Tomlin just seems to me to be a rah rah, let me be your best friend, summer camp councilor, type of coach and not a true leader.

But he wasn't like that on our '08 Super Bowl run. Hell, he sat fast Willie Parker after his mouth got the best of him, and he really burned him vocally as well. He was very highly spoken and he really hyped this team up to new levels. Not sure what it is that caused everyone to settle down and quit getting into the game, but they have. It's just the will to want to win, I guess.

mesaSteeler
01-21-2012, 01:01 PM
But he wasn't like that on our '08 Super Bowl run. Hell, he sat fast Willie Parker after his mouth got the best of him, and he really burned him vocally as well. He was very highly spoken and he really hyped this team up to new levels. Not sure what it is that caused everyone to settle down and quit getting into the game, but they have. It's just the will to want to win, I guess.

I agree and he'd better get back to that form. It's Tomlin's job to LEAD the team.

Bayz101
01-21-2012, 01:02 PM
I agree and he'd better get back to that form. It's Tomlin's job to LEAD the team.

Exactly, and i'm sure Rooney's growing tired of making his decisions.

TRH
01-21-2012, 02:43 PM
"Unleash Hell?"

I love Tomlin, but one of the dumbest quotes in recent history.
If you're going to SAY it.........then you BETTER go out and do it.

Bayz101
01-21-2012, 02:48 PM
I love Tomlin, but one of the dumbest quotes in recent history.
If you're going to SAY it.........then you BETTER go out and do it.

It sure sounded really cool, just didn't look it :rofl:

zcoop
01-21-2012, 07:38 PM
Here's to hoping that Ziggy and Cam can step into the Greg Lloyd zone. Crezdon Butler might have it too. Sylvester looks emotional too.

I just feel it waaaay down deep in my heart that Tomlin is a bad influence as far as inspiring 60 minutes of emotion goes. Maybe the players don't respect him because they feel he is getting a free ride on Lebeaus back. He brings nothing to the table offensively, and special teams always makes me cringe.

Tomlin might be a good defensive coach, I don't know. But I don't get the vibe that players want to win for him.

The thing that makes great coachs, great coachs, is that players want to win for them.

BullChit! Tomlin does what he's been paid to do. Every coach has a different style just like we all have different azzholes. Don't trash the brother because you may have a personal beef with him. He's done a great job for the short time that he's been with us. Cowher only won 1 SB in his tenure here, Mike could have had another one last year if we didn't commit the turnovers against the cheezheads.

jiminpa
01-21-2012, 08:28 PM
Chuck Noll was intense and demanding his first 11 years. He won 4 super bowls.
He was passive and unemotional his last 11 years. And won no more super bowls.

A firey coach like Madden and Parcells,Levy and Lombardi, are offset by guys like Shula, Walsh, Landry and Gibbs. Belichick is probably the best of all of them.

I think Mike Tomlin shows a lack of emotion that is mirrored by the team. He is a defensive mind, but the defense is coached by LeBeau- the best in the game.

Take LeBeau out of the equation the past 4 years that Tomlin has been there, and I don't think the steeler have a winning record in any of those years.

The steelers win IN SPITE OF Tomlin. Just like they won 2 super Bowls IN SPITE OF Big Ben. Roethlisberger has played in 3 super bowls so far, and hasn't had a good game yet. We should have lost the one against seattle, santonio saved us against arizona, and Ben played bad against the Packers - and Lebeaus D had a bad day. Just like in denver.
James Harrison saved us against Arizona, and should have been MVP, IMHO. Stonio (and I use the nickname just because I think it's amusing) did what should have been done in the rest of the game. The offense rode the defense and took the bow, as has been the case for the whole Tomlin/Arians era.

Man, it will nice going into a season looking forward to the Steelers having the ball.

jiminpa
01-21-2012, 08:33 PM
But he wasn't like that on our '08 Super Bowl run. Hell, he sat fast Willie Parker after his mouth got the best of him, and he really burned him vocally as well. He was very highly spoken and he really hyped this team up to new levels. Not sure what it is that caused everyone to settle down and quit getting into the game, but they have. It's just the will to want to win, I guess.Yet, everything Parker said was absolutely right. So he penalized Parker for trying to fix the problem. Actually, that's very consistent with what I would still expect of him. The way you'll see Tomlin truly unleash Hell is if someone threatens his status quo.

Black N' Yellow
01-21-2012, 09:09 PM
I didn't know all of you guys were on the team and knew the dynamics or what the locker room was like. Give me a break....

mesaSteeler
01-21-2012, 10:07 PM
I didn't know all of you guys were on the team and knew the dynamics or what the locker room was like. Give me a break....

Just the type of comment I'd expect from a newbie who does not know the colors of the team. Here's a hint. The Steelers wear Black and Gold.

Black N' Yellow
01-21-2012, 10:26 PM
Just the type of comment I'd expect from a newbie who does not know the colors of the team. Here's a hint. The Steelers wear Black and Gold.

Here's another hint. You don't go 12-4 without some type of emotional leadership... And all you see/hear is what the media picks up.

And if anybody doesn't think Tomlin wasn't cussing out the team and getting them fired up during halftime of the Broncos game, I want what you're smoking.

mesaSteeler
01-21-2012, 10:37 PM
Here's another hint. You don't go 12-4 without some type of emotional leadership... And all you see/hear is what the media picks up.

And if anybody doesn't think Tomlin wasn't cussing out the team and getting them fired up during halftime of the Broncos game, I want what you're smoking.

Really? Tomlin was cussing in Denver in the locker room at half time? Well then you must be a Steeler player or Coach since only way you could know that was if you in the Steelers locker room during half time and no else would have been there. Sure you were there. In your dreams maybe.

Yet you whine about how others only report what the media says. What hypocrisy. Well at least knowing what is written about the team gives the rest of us one up on you since all you do is quote yourself. Where is that ignore button? Ah there it is! Bye Bye.

jiminpa
01-21-2012, 10:48 PM
Here's another hint. You don't go 12-4 without some type of emotional leadership... And all you see/hear is what the media picks up.

And if anybody doesn't think Tomlin wasn't cussing out the team and getting them fired up during halftime of the Broncos game, I want what you're smoking.Well, I'm smoking a good dose of reality. Want some?

I don't actually know, but I imagine Tomlin was utilizing the off camera time to add to his tough loss cliche repertoire. Seeing as how the offense had already converted consecutive three and outs by the defense into a whopping 3 points. But the Madden numbers had to be astronomical.

Woo Hoo, next year really is looking better!

Sixburgher
01-21-2012, 10:52 PM
Chuck Noll was intense and demanding his first 11 years. He won 4 super bowls.
He was passive and unemotional his last 11 years. And won no more super bowls.

Biggest crock of shit I think I've ever read here. And that's saying a lot.

Sixburgher
01-21-2012, 10:55 PM
Just the type of comment I'd expect from a newbie who does not know the colors of the team. Here's a hint. The Steelers wear Black and Gold.

How is he wrong?

Sixburgher
01-21-2012, 11:03 PM
Well, I'm smoking a good dose of reality. Want some?

I don't actually know, but I imagine Tomlin was utilizing the off camera time to add to his tough loss cliche repertoire. Seeing as how the offense had already converted consecutive three and outs by the defense into a whopping 3 points. But the Madden numbers had to be astronomical.

Woo Hoo, next year really is looking better!

One non Super Bowl year brings the idiocy out in a lot of people. That's the only "reality" I see.

Black N' Yellow
01-21-2012, 11:12 PM
Really? Tomlin was cussing in Denver in the locker room at half time? Well then you must be a Steeler player or Coach since only way you could know that was if you in the Steelers locker room during half time and no else would have been there. Sure you were there. In your dreams maybe.

Yet you whine about how others only report what the media says. What hypocrisy. Well at least knowing what is written about the team gives the rest of us one up on you since all you do is quote yourself. Where is that ignore button? Ah there it is! Bye Bye.

All I'm saying is that you're not on the team so you're only gonna get glances of the big picture of the team's dynamics. He's not going to try to get the media fired up, he's just going to state what happened and give the very basics of what his thoughts are.

The only people that really need to see motivation are the players. That's all it boils down too. The fans don't need to be motivated or to hear/see things to motivate them. The players do.

The Steelers went 12-4 and had a decent chance of beating Denver if Ben/Mendenhall/entire defense wasn't banged up. And you're forgetting this defense was mostly in their 30's? It's gonna be a different environment than a team that has younger players (possibly with confidence/focus issues) that needs to stay fired and confident to win.

Yeah, I'm not saying they didn't appear to be less emotional this year, but dang... A 5-6 year run with 3 superbowl appearances (how long has it been since the Steelers have had a losing season?) is going to make anyone more complacent.

Kanata-Steeler
01-21-2012, 11:14 PM
Ever since I've been a Steeler fan, I always seem to take a liking to the guys who get emotional and show some fire on the field.

All of my favorite players from years gone by were firey players. Robin Cole, Gary Dunn, Keith Willis, Jack Lambert, Lethon Flowers, Hardy Nickerson, Greg Lloyd, Ernie Mills, Dirt Winston, Dwight White, Joe Greene, Joey Porter, Leon Searcy, Leroy Thompson, Craig Wolfley, Joel Steed, Dwayne Woodruff, Donnie Shell, Bryan Hinkle.
Those guys played with a chip on their shoulder every week.

Thats something that i don't see from these current guys. Harrison is emotional and firey, but there are no other firey guys for him to feed, or for Harrison to feed off of.

Greg Lloyd used to almost "will" the team to win.
Bubby Brister was another firey guy, he sucked as a QB, but he always played angry.

Woodson proved that you can play mad and still play at the highest level.

You don't need to be big either, Ernie Mills, Troy Edwards, and Randle-El had short fuses. I couldn't name 3 firey guys on this team anymore. Farrior used to be, but I guess he is done now. I know the team missed Farriors usual emotional leadership this year.

Tomlin isn't firey or emotional, thats why i think the team plays so emotionless.
they say the team reflects the coach.


Harrison (firey) is a good foil for Woodley, just as Lloyd (firey) was a good foil for Kevin Greene. The pairs of them combined for some great sacks, as I remember too.

That said, I do agree that we definitely need more firey combo's on this team, especially the Offense.
... when you hear Troy,... or even Harrison, or any Steeler on defense talk about LeBeau, it's always with "honest" positive praise.
That says a lot of the respect and chemistry LeBeau has for his guys, and vica-versa.

U're right again, teams do reflect their coaches, and Tomlin too, has to start lighting a Fire under some of those asses now !!!
- but, you never heard Offensive players ever talk about Ariens with that kind of fervor and respect, well except for Ben, and that's somethin' else you can blame our EX-OC for.
Thankfully, that is all behind us now.
So, with the right new OC, hopefully around the corner, I'm sure the "fires' will come back.

jiminpa
01-22-2012, 12:02 AM
One non Super Bowl year brings the idiocy out in a lot of people. That's the only "reality" I see.
After the second season that he brought Arians back I started losing respect for him. I've been calling him Coach Cliche for years, even after the last superbowl appearance. I'm glad they got to the championship, but I have to wonder how good this team would be with some leadership.

Sixburgher
01-22-2012, 12:08 AM
After the second season that he brought Arians back I started losing respect for him. I've been calling him Coach Cliche for years, even after the last superbowl appearance. I'm glad they got to the championship, but I have to wonder how good this team would be with some leadership.

Fair enough.

ricardisimo
01-22-2012, 01:18 AM
Biggest crock of shit I think I've ever read here. And that's saying a lot.
True. You could probably count on one hand the number of times Noll raised his voice at his players. Granted, he could freeze you in your tracks with a mere look, but he definitely was not spitting in your face.

Danny136200
01-22-2012, 01:51 AM
YEAH FIRE TOMLIN!!!!!

seriously man, cut that out, no losing records his five years, 2 super bowl appearances? that's not a mistake, Tomlin has been a good coach; just because he is not flipping out in the sideline like cowher was does not mean that he is a bad coach; he is one of the best right now so i dont know why people are bashing him; he has been as successful as cowher was in a third of the time (cowher did not have Ben as his QB, admittingly).

tanda10506
01-22-2012, 03:23 AM
We are lacking emotion but we don't need it from the coach. We have players that get fired up, they just didn't this year. Sixburgher heard the biggest crock of sh*t on this thread and now I have too: we won SB's in spite of big Ben? Laughable if not so ridiculous, we would have zero championships this decade without him.

Darthslayrr
01-22-2012, 08:47 AM
If Ben coming back at halftime of the Browns game don't inspire I don't know what will.