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View Full Version : But is it Too Late to Fix Ben ?!


Kanata-Steeler
01-21-2012, 06:31 AM
8 years of "bad habits" under Bruce Ariens is gonna be hard to break for even an older "stud" like Ben.
mmm, I dunno ? we'll see.
But one thing is for sure, the new OC, or Tomlin, will NOT play a severely injured Ben, ever again.

Whodis
01-21-2012, 08:54 AM
Ben will be fine... If we get a fullback and get a running game going I think it will open up more options for him and buy a lot more time.

plenewken
01-21-2012, 10:11 AM
8 years of "bad habits" under Bruce Ariens is gonna be hard to break for even an older "stud" like Ben.
mmm, I dunno ? we'll see.
But one thing is for sure, the new OC, or Tomlin, will NOT play a severely injured Ben, ever again.

He'll be OK but he needs to be more professional than he's been under Arians. It starts with conditioning, attending practice, watching tapes etc......
Fat, slow, too many bad decisions, too inconsistent doesn't cut it when the guy's paid $100M. I hope the new OC is firm on these issues.

TRH
01-21-2012, 10:15 AM
He'll be fine.
To me, it was the "scheme" Arians had designd (or non-designed depending on how you look at it).

Abandoning the TE's, lack of quick slant's which the new modern NFL thrives on (all the big QB's use it), plus a bad OL. These were all significant contributing factors.

jiminpa
01-21-2012, 11:04 AM
Is it too late to fix Ben? Probably, but we can hope.

mesaSteeler
01-21-2012, 11:15 AM
He'll be OK but he needs to be more professional than he's been under Arians. It starts with conditioning, attending practice, watching tapes etc......
Fat, slow, too many bad decisions, too inconsistent doesn't cut it when the guy's paid $100M. I hope the new OC is firm on these issues.

Absolutely correct. Unprofessional is exactly the word to describe the relationship was between Airhead and Big Ben. It's Tomlin's responsibility to stop that and he failed. The coaches run the team, not the players.

stb_steeler
01-21-2012, 11:34 AM
What ever happen to Ben working with the receivers on the off season?
or at least thats what we've heard. Its true an off season conditioning wouldnt hurt Ben, but i guess he'd rather play golf n cards with Bruce.....:noidea:

FanSince72
01-21-2012, 11:45 AM
What is there to fix?

You know, the Rooney's weren't blind when they picked Ben.

They knew what they were getting and from the first time he touched the ball right up to now, Ben has always been a scrambler and has always done his thing, so why does he now need to be "fixed"?

He's been at this now going into his eighth season and he is who he is.
Trying to change anything in him now is a waste of time and could actually do more harm than good.
If the Rooney's don't like that, they can always point him towards the door.

former RB
01-21-2012, 11:53 AM
Take 10 tackling dummies, paint numbers on them and stand them up in different spots downfield. Have Ben take ghost snaps and drop back. As soon as he sets his feet, have someone call out a number, Ben throws at the number of the dummy called out. It teachs you to throw with accuracy on rhythm.

Elway didn't change his game until he lost his mobility due to injury. He was forced to become a rhythm passer. He was already accurate because he was a baseball pitcher.

If Ben does the above drill, WHICH IS A DRILL THAT I TEACH- he will improve his vision, increase his accuracy, and make faster decisions.

plenewken
01-21-2012, 12:55 PM
He's been at this now going into his eighth season and he is who he is.
Trying to change anything in him now is a waste of time and could actually do more harm than good.
If the Rooney's don't like that, they can always point him towards the door.

Ben is not gifted enough to avoid practicing and certainly not fit enough to not hit the gym.
Pro golfers, even the top ones, work on their game and physical condition consistently, and there's nobody who hit them on the golf course.

Scrambling is one thing but Ben's not even remotely close to being the best at it. How many rushing yds and TDs did he get the last 3 years? How many times has he been sacked the last 3 years?. Great scramblers don't get pounded week in and week out. like Ben does.

Bayz101
01-21-2012, 01:01 PM
Take 10 tackling dummies, paint numbers on them and stand them up in different spots downfield. Have Ben take ghost snaps and drop back. As soon as he sets his feet, have someone call out a number, Ben throws at the number of the dummy called out. It teachs you to throw with accuracy on rhythm.

Elway didn't change his game until he lost his mobility due to injury. He was forced to become a rhythm passer. He was already accurate because he was a baseball pitcher.

If Ben does the above drill, WHICH IS A DRILL THAT I TEACH- he will improve his vision, increase his accuracy, and make faster decisions.

The Pittsburgh sports complex has this exact drill area setup, so I wouldn't be surprised if he's already done this several times. But you are absolutely right. I'm a quarterback, and it does help tremendously.

jiminpa
01-21-2012, 02:35 PM
What is there to fix?

You know, the Rooney's weren't blind when they picked Ben.

They knew what they were getting and from the first time he touched the ball right up to now, Ben has always been a scrambler and has always done his thing, so why does he now need to be "fixed"?

He's been at this now going into his eighth season and he is who he is.
Trying to change anything in him now is a waste of time and could actually do more harm than good.
If the Rooney's don't like that, they can always point him towards the door.You say more than you know. He has been in the league for 8 years, and has been allowed to stagnate and then digress for 6 of them. His first 2 years in the NFL resisted being pushed to develop, as if somehow just being Ben Roethlisberger entitled him to league leading stats and points on the scoreboard.

While I can't prove it, it seems quite likely to me that Ben had too much influence in letting the HC candidate who took the Arizona Cardinals, (yes I know it was just once, but look at the organization), to the Superbowl go to Arizona, specifically because he expected some development from the diva.

FanSince72
01-21-2012, 03:53 PM
You say more than you know. He has been in the league for 8 years, and has been allowed to stagnate and then digress for 6 of them. His first 2 years in the NFL resisted being pushed to develop, as if somehow just being Ben Roethlisberger entitled him to league leading stats and points on the scoreboard.

While I can't prove it, it seems quite likely to me that Ben had too much influence in letting the HC candidate who took the Arizona Cardinals, (yes I know it was just once, but look at the organization), to the Superbowl go to Arizona, specifically because he expected some development from the diva.


Let's say that you're right (and you may very well be).

It STILL falls on the Rooney's shoulders to understand that they accepted Ben with all of his flaws and if he's a diva who doesn't want to listen or learn then it was THEIR job to identify those traits just as they identified his ability to throw a football.

When they took Ben, they took the whole package and whatever he has or hasn't been allowed to do is THEIR responsibility.

FanSince72
01-21-2012, 04:08 PM
Ben is not gifted enough to avoid practicing and certainly not fit enough to not hit the gym.
Pro golfers, even the top ones, work on their game and physical condition consistently, and there's nobody who hit them on the golf course.

Scrambling is one thing but Ben's not even remotely close to being the best at it. How many rushing yds and TDs did he get the last 3 years? How many times has he been sacked the last 3 years?. Great scramblers don't get pounded week in and week out. like Ben does.

I didn't say Ben is a "great" anything.

He LIKES to move around and to a large extent I think he actually needs to in order to see the field better.
That doesn't make him particularly good at it, it just means that it's the way he likes to play.

He also has a weak arm as pro QB's go and has no long ball. But he has a tremendous amount of drive and creativity and he has the ability to make something out of nothing.
He also has a knack for winning games in the fourth quarter and for turning circumstances that look bad into improbable good fortune and that's why he's here.

Maybe it's true that he could use some more time in a workout room or that maybe he could spend more time throwing a football, but I think it's a little late in the game to be pointing that out, don't you?

He's going to turn 30 this year and he's entering the latter part of his career and considering that he's spent the previous twenty years developing into who he is, I doubt that much could be changed even if he or others had the inclination to try.

He is who he is and frankly, I think he's still one of the best as well as one of the most underrated QB's out there and I personally wouldn't change a thing.

tony hipchest
01-21-2012, 04:36 PM
"fix" ben?

do you mean get him neutered?

FrancoLambert
01-21-2012, 04:46 PM
"fix" ben?

do you mean get him neutered?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Bayz101
01-21-2012, 04:46 PM
"fix" ben?

do you mean get him neutered?

Ohh no...Has the little fella been hanging around the club bathroom's again?

:chuckle::banging:

60_MINUTES
01-21-2012, 05:00 PM
Do we need to fix BEN??? wow a 2 time SB champion thats in the middle of breaking every record in the Steelers book.. A probowl QB? come on guys get real here.. some of you are suggesting drills he should do lol... come on..

Im sure he has done every drill invented.. as well has worked on every type of foot work drill you can do.. These guys are NFL QB's.. and lets get one thing straight BEN is one of the better ones of all time... Yes his style of play is different at times but facts are facts BEN has had huge success and im not talking about just in the win dept.. His Stats have been among the top in the league for years..

Anyway this move is about scheme and matchups.. something BA couldnt do.. BEN won with talent mostly his own. We never get machups guys.. We never seem to lock Heath on a LB or get alot of one on ones for Brown or Wallace. We have talent out of the ass at many different spots on this team and we just keep running the same basic stuff.

Yes BEN throwing some on time would be good.. but having your first read open every now and then should not be to hard to do.. We drop back read 1 and 2 is covered so BEN plays school yard ball.

make no mistake about it BEN can get better in the pocket and throwing on time but to suggest is it to late for BEN is plain out crazy. BEN is great and one of few with 2 SUPERBOWL's... dont give me this team or D won them for him shit either.. BEN made huge plays all year long in each of those superbowls that got us there and helped us win them.

This move is about bringing in a guy that will out coach another team from time to time and not just hope your QB makes a school yard play to win it for you

tanda10506
01-21-2012, 05:02 PM
You say more than you know. He has been in the league for 8 years, and has been allowed to stagnate and then digress for 6 of them. His first 2 years in the NFL resisted being pushed to develop, as if somehow just being Ben Roethlisberger entitled him to league leading stats and points on the scoreboard.


Winning more and more, leading more and more come backs, winning more playoff games and SB's, that's stagnate or digressing? Obvious troll or ratbird fan.

Fact of the matter is Ben is a top 5 QB and us Steelers fans should consider ourselves lucky. There's very little to fix. He needs to practice more, I don't mean throwing passes in Latrobe, I mean game film study. That would cut down on his interceptions. He can throw the slant pass that we all want to see just fine, go watch the game against the pats this year, but if we don't call it he won't throw it, that's not on him. It's hard to throw the ball sooner when you are waiting for your receivers to run their long bombs and when you have to take your eyes off the down field picture to see where your line has broken and run away from it. Yes he could release it earlier SOMETIMES, yes he could get a bit better throwing the long bomb, but the bottom line is he's one of the best in the game right now, this team would be nowhere without him, and nobody is perfect. There is room for improvement with every body. You don't hear pats fans whining about Brady not throwing that well on the run or doing poor under pressure. Yet so many of us pick on Ben's few, and often far between, short comings. EVERYBODY has room for improvement and nobody will achieve perfection, there are 32 starting QB's in the NFL and our guy is better then at least 27 or them.

mesaSteeler
01-21-2012, 05:05 PM
I don't know about "fixing" him but I would like to prolong his career though. If that involves changing his style so be it. The hits he is taking are doing nothing for his longevity.

jiminpa
01-21-2012, 05:05 PM
Do we need to fix BEN??? wow a 2 time SB champion thats in the middle of breaking every record in the Steelers book.. A probowl QB? come on guys get real here.. some of you are suggesting drills he should do lol... come on..

Im sure he has done every drill invented.. as well has worked on every type of foot work drill you can do.. These guys are NFL QB's.. and lets get one thing straight BEN is one of the better ones of all time... Yes his style of play is different at times but facts are facts BEN has had huge success and im not talking about just in the win dept.. His Stats have been among the top in the league for years..

Anyway this move is about scheme and matchups.. something BA couldnt do.. BEN won with talent mostly his own. We never get machups guys.. We never seem to lock Heath on a LB or get alot of one on ones for Brown or Wallace. We have talent out of the ass at many different spots on this team and we just keep running the same basic stuff.

Yes BEN throwing some on time would be good.. but having your first read open every now and then should not be to hard to do.. We drop back read 1 and 2 is covered so BEN plays school yard ball.

make no mistake about it BEN can get better in the pocket and throwing on time but to suggest is it to late for BEN is plain out crazy. BEN is great and one of few with 2 SUPERBOWL's... dont give me this team or D won them for him shit either.. BEN made huge plays all year long in each of those superbowls that got us there and helped us win them.

This move is about bringing in a guy that will out coach another team from time to time and not just hope your QB makes a school yard play to win it for youEvery record but scoring. When Madden stats become more important than the score of games toward the Lombardi, (no doubt Goodell is trying figure out how to make that happen), then his ability to rack up meaningless stats will work to his favor, but now it just help illustrate how really broken things are.

60_MINUTES
01-21-2012, 05:08 PM
Every record but scoring. When Madden stats become more important than the score of games toward the Lombardi, (no doubt Goodell is trying figure out how to make that happen), then I'll be impressed with records.



Right Ill give you that.. the NFL is looking for stats thats for sure.. however thats part of this move.. you got a QB that can put up these numbers with WR and TE having the talent we got..

If you cant score with a QB like this and talent like this then you got to bring in a coach that can

jiminpa
01-21-2012, 05:11 PM
Right Ill give you that.. the NFL is looking for stats thats for sure.. however thats part of this move.. you got a QB that can put up these numbers with WR and TE having the talent we got..

If you cant score with a QB like this and talent like this then you got to bring in a coach that can
I edited my post a little. It still says basically the same thing though.

60_MINUTES
01-21-2012, 05:11 PM
Winning more and more, leading more and more come backs, winning more playoff games and SB's, that's stagnate or digressing? Obvious troll or ratbird fan.

Fact of the matter is Ben is a top 5 QB and us Steelers fans should consider ourselves lucky. There's very little to fix. He needs to practice more, I don't mean throwing passes in Latrobe, I mean game film study. That would cut down on his interceptions. He can throw the slant pass that we all want to see just fine, go watch the game against the pats this year, but if we don't call it he won't throw it, that's not on him. It's hard to throw the ball sooner when you are waiting for your receivers to run their long bombs and when you have to take your eyes off the down field picture to see where your line has broken and run away from it. Yes he could release it earlier SOMETIMES, yes he could get a bit better throwing the long bomb, but the bottom line is he's one of the best in the game right now, this team would be nowhere without him, and nobody is perfect. There is room for improvement with every body. You don't hear pats fans whining about Brady not throwing that well on the run or doing poor under pressure. Yet so many of us pick on Ben's few, and often far between, short comings. EVERYBODY has room for improvement and nobody will achieve perfection, there are 32 starting QB's in the NFL and our guy is better then at least 27 or them.



You are right on the money... not to mention the only QB's that are even close to being better then BEN are mostly if not all HOF QB....

by the way how stupid do we look as fans to be acting like BEN is missing all this stuff or whatever but yet he himself is on his way to the HOF... Wow

Edman
01-21-2012, 05:11 PM
Ben is not the problem with the offense. He has proven he can run a no-huddle and run an offense. Does anyone not remember all the times the Offense sprung to life because Ben ran No-Huddle? Did anyone not see the Titans and Bengals games this year?

Arians' simple mind did the offense in thanks to his Greed (going for too many high risk/low probability plays and such) and junk playcalling. Long-developing pass plays that rely on Ben's freelancing and mobility, and insipid route design.

mesaSteeler
01-21-2012, 05:12 PM
BUFFONE: Roethlisberger’s Style Needs Tweaked
http://www.kittanningpaper.com/2012/01/18/buffone-roethlisbergers-style-needs-tweaked/23020
by John Buffone

Pittsburgh Steelers president and co-owner Art Rooney addressed the media yesterday to talk about the team’s future. One of his most interesting remarks was in regards to his star quarterback Ben Roethlisberger. Rooney said that his franchise QB will need to “tweak” his game to avoid taking so many sacks and hits in the future.

Although he is as big as most linebackers at 6’5, 250 lbs, Roethlisberger turns 30 in March and is averaging 43.5 sacks per season since 2006. While Rooney’s comments may be a subtle nudge at offensive coordinator Bruce Arians to run the ball more, changing Roethlisberger’s style of play right now seems almost impossible. Ben has made his mark on the league by extending plays, taking hits and playing hurt; making it unlikely that his mindset will change as he grows older.

Unfortunately for the Steelers, some of the injuries that Roethlisberger has been able to deal with in his mid-to-late twenties will become much more difficult to deal with as he enters his early thirties. Those who draw parallels between Roethlisberger’s style of play and Brett Favre’s use the argument that Favre was able to last 20 seasons in the NFL, which bodes well for the bigger, stronger Roethlisberger. In his 20-year career however, Favre was only sacked 40 times in a season once while Roethlisberger already has five seasons of 40 or more sacks in his 8-year career. While it shouldn’t be expected to see Roethlisberger throwing balls away to avoid contact anytime soon, something certainly needs addressed before the Steelers have to start looking for an heir apparent.

tanda10506
01-21-2012, 05:17 PM
I don't know about "fixing" him but I would like to prolong his career though. If that involves changing his style so be it. The hits he is taking are doing nothing for his longevity.

This is true, but his style of play is due to the O line. Ben usually stays in the pocket unless it's broken down. Being that it's broken down so much it makes it seem like that's his "style of play" when really it's just him trying to make something happen while our O lineman watch the backs of 2 or 3 defenders as they try to chase Ben down. He will go out of a good pocket every now and then, but if it's there he usually stays in it.

zcoop
01-21-2012, 07:02 PM
This is true, but his style of play is due to the O line. Ben usually stays in the pocket unless it's broken down. Being that it's broken down so much it makes it seem like that's his "style of play" when really it's just him trying to make something happen while our O lineman watch the backs of 2 or 3 defenders as they try to chase Ben down. He will go out of a good pocket every now and then, but if it's there he usually stays in it.

I hear ya but Ben's got to realize that he's getting older now. If the play is covered, throw the damn ball away and run the next play. He can't continue to take unecessary hits and try to force throws.

He has to show wisdom which should come with age.

FanSince72
01-21-2012, 07:10 PM
I don't know about "fixing" him but I would like to prolong his career though. If that involves changing his style so be it. The hits he is taking are doing nothing for his longevity.

Well maybe an offensive line that isn't on crutches every week might be a good start along with a left tackle that isn't third on the list of guys you'd want out there.


But as usual, we'll probably just pick up some more defensive linemen or linebackers.

pitt0wns
01-21-2012, 11:38 PM
Get Ben a line and a running game and he'll be the top qb in the league!

You can't bag on Ben for hanging on to the ball too long, thats his game . end of story.

His style of play is b/c the O line has sucked for years.

60_MINUTES
01-22-2012, 12:10 AM
Ben is not the problem with the offense. He has proven he can run a no-huddle and run an offense. Does anyone not remember all the times the Offense sprung to life because Ben ran No-Huddle? Did anyone not see the Titans and Bengals games this year?

Arians' simple mind did the offense in thanks to his Greed (going for too many high risk/low probability plays and such) and junk playcalling. Long-developing pass plays that rely on Ben's freelancing and mobility, and insipid route design.



very true but also very sad... In a no huddle BEN is just calling pass patterns.. the D hasnt even shown what they intend to do and ben has already called his play.. it works just as well as what BA had been calling if not better.. thats the sad part...

A good O coord is gonna set things up and create mismatches all over the field... create one on one matchups... Not just call a play thats on his chart for 3 and 10 or 3rd and 15... I expect we move into the top 10 in total O next year maybe top 5.. I also know although BEN will never admit it he will see in the next few years exaclty what everyone else suspects... He will say to himself " Holy shit I cant believe how many years I been held back": as the numbers poor in and the wins keep coming BEN will know but never admit it. For those who support BA and think its BEN's fault just sit back and watch.. its gonna blow your mind just how bad BA really was

plenewken
01-22-2012, 12:17 PM
Get Ben a line and a running game and he'll be the top qb in the league!

You can't bag on Ben for hanging on to the ball too long, thats his game . end of story.

His style of play is b/c the O line has sucked for years.

It's his style of play regardless of the OL. Did the OL ask him to look like a slob and not being able to move 1/2 as fast as he used to? Did the OL ask him not to study tapes as much as the other top QBs in the league?
Getting a line won't make him faster at reading defenses and being more mobile and more accurate.
Ben needs to get rid of some bad habits, and work on his skills, irrespective of who's protecting him.
That's what I expect from a $100M franchise QB.

ricardisimo
01-22-2012, 01:13 PM
I'm curious how from one day to the next Ben became lazy, a poor study and full of bad habits. Mind you, it could all be true, but it would be the first I've heard of it, and not once from anyone in the Pittsburgh media... not in any depth anyway, maybe an oblique comment here or there.

This looks and feels more like a chatroom comment that is just being copied and pasted by other members.
http://smiliesftw.com/x/borrego.gifhttp://smiliesftw.com/x/borrego.gifhttp://smiliesftw.com/x/borrego.gifhttp://smiliesftw.com/x/borrego.gifhttp://smiliesftw.com/x/borrego.gifhttp://smiliesftw.com/x/borrego.gif

MACH1
01-22-2012, 01:36 PM
I'm curious how from one day to the next Ben became lazy, a poor study and full of bad habits. Mind you, it could all be true, but it would be the first I've heard of it, and not once from anyone in the Pittsburgh media... not in any depth anyway, maybe an oblique comment here or there.

This looks and feels more like a chatroom comment that is just being copied and pasted by other members.
http://smiliesftw.com/x/borrego.gifhttp://smiliesftw.com/x/borrego.gifhttp://smiliesftw.com/x/borrego.gifhttp://smiliesftw.com/x/borrego.gifhttp://smiliesftw.com/x/borrego.gifhttp://smiliesftw.com/x/borrego.gif

Ben's biggest bad habit was just handed his walking papers.

If we get a real OC that works with Ben and coach's him up right, instills a little discipline I don't see a problem.

Kanata-Steeler
01-22-2012, 01:38 PM
I'm curious how from one day to the next Ben became lazy, a poor study and full of bad habits. Mind you, it could all be true, but it would be the first I've heard of it, and not once from anyone in the Pittsburgh media... not in any depth anyway, maybe an oblique comment here or there.

This looks and feels more like a chatroom comment that is just being copied and pasted by other members.
http://smiliesftw.com/x/borrego.gifhttp://smiliesftw.com/x/borrego.gifhttp://smiliesftw.com/x/borrego.gifhttp://smiliesftw.com/x/borrego.gifhttp://smiliesftw.com/x/borrego.gifhttp://smiliesftw.com/x/borrego.gif

I was thinkin' of Lemmings, but I guess you picked sheep.
-same thing.
:chuckle:

BKAnthem
01-22-2012, 01:58 PM
Ben's biggest bad habit was just handed his walking papers.

If we get a real OC that works with Ben and coach's him up right, instills a little discipline I don't see a problem.

THIS... he needs a coach not an enabler...Whiz and Cowher called him on his BS...But Ben is a player, all this lazy talk is crazy...

lardlad
01-22-2012, 07:12 PM
I would like to see more deliberate play. Theres been a few, rather than every stinking play looks like he pulled one out of his rear end. It hardly ever looks like they have a plan, line up and see what happens. It may not be his "style" but he has done it before. And it worked well NE game comes to mind.

plenewken
01-23-2012, 06:28 AM
I'm curious how from one day to the next Ben became lazy, a poor study and full of bad habits. Mind you, it could all be true, but it would be the first I've heard of it, and not once from anyone in the Pittsburgh media... not in any depth anyway, maybe an oblique comment here or there.

This looks and feels more like a chatroom comment that is just being copied and pasted by other members.


I don't need to cut and paste someone else's opinion on Ben. I have mine, it's not new, and if you don't like it, at least, respect the poster.
Have a nice day.

Curtain_of_Steel
01-23-2012, 09:03 AM
Ben isnt broken snd doesnt need fixing. He plays broken a lot lol. Get him an Oline first. But I bet there will be no significant help brought in this off season

ricardisimo
01-23-2012, 10:25 AM
I don't need to cut and paste someone else's opinion on Ben. I have mine, it's not new, and if you don't like it, at least, respect the poster.
Have a nice day.
I wasn't singling you out. It just seemed like from one day to the next everyone decided that Ben was fat and lazy. If this was a sentiment that I had seen floating around regularly (from posters other than the Raven lurkers, that is) then I would have let it pass without comment.

Besides, my question still stands: where are people getting this idea? Show us an article. We're here to share Steeler news and discuss it.

plenewken
01-23-2012, 11:32 AM
I wasn't singling you out. It just seemed like from one day to the next everyone decided that Ben was fat and lazy. If this was a sentiment that I had seen floating around regularly (from posters other than the Raven lurkers, that is) then I would have let it pass without comment.

Besides, my question still stands: where are people getting this idea? Show us an article. We're here to share Steeler news and discuss it.

We're cool. No animosity from my side.

I don't know about you but I don't need an article to realize that Ben's fatter and less mobile than 4 years ago.
As for being lazy, I don't know if he is but he's known for not studying tapes as much as his peers. I remember reading articles about it.

Kanata-Steeler
01-26-2012, 09:53 AM
http://nicepickcowher.com/2012/01/25/new-offensive-coordinator-will-test-how-good-roethlisberger-really-is/

...straightforward, but nuthin' much that we didn't already know about.

kan_t
01-26-2012, 11:06 AM
Ben is already a top 4-6 QB in the league. When I read some posts here, I think we are talking about Joe Flacco. The Steelers don't need to fix Ben. They need to fix the O-Line and have a competent OC.

vasteeler
01-26-2012, 11:17 AM
this thread sucks!!!!

ben has taken us to 3 superbowls. ben doesnt need to be fixed. some of you guys though......:doh:

FanSince72
01-26-2012, 11:41 AM
this thread sucks!!!!

ben has taken us to 3 superbowls. ben doesnt need to be fixed. some of you guys though......:doh:

Yeah but it's a fact that Ben doesn't throw 45 TD's a year and his QB rating isn't 158, so obviously he's not built for this league and frankly, I just can't understand how we've managed to put up with him for as long as we have! :noidea:

I mean, ONLY 3 Super Bowls in what? Seven years?
The guy is obviously dogshit!

FrancoLambert
01-26-2012, 11:58 AM
this thread sucks!!!!

ben has taken us to 3 superbowls. ben doesnt need to be fixed. some of you guys though......:doh:

Maybe "fixed" is a poor choice of words. But how about "improved?" I think we can all agree that everyone (generally) tries to improve at their craft be it quaterback of the Steelers or your dentist. Working to strengthen your weaknesses is something that leads to improvement. The real question should be, "does Ben work his hardest to become the best he can be?"
I'm certainly no insider, but he has certainly contributed to the notion/ reputation / image of someone who doesn't.:tt03:

wera176
01-26-2012, 12:14 PM
Yeah but it's a fact that Ben doesn't throw 45 TD's a year and his QB rating isn't 158, so obviously he's not built for this league and frankly, I just can't understand how we've managed to put up with him for as long as we have! :noidea:

I mean, ONLY 3 Super Bowls in what? Seven years?
The guy is obviously dogshit!

Yeah, but don't forget he rode the defense's back every time. :doh:

:thumbsup:

:drink: Actually, I jest. I agree with you 110%. The dude may not do it all pretty like Brady and put up HUGE numbers like the other fantasy princesses, he's a gamer and just the type of guy I enjoy watching/having on our team. AND, he's numbers ARE NOT THAT BAD. Look at Ws and Ls, YPA/YPC, career QB rating, etc... Sure, he looked slow at the end of the year HE COULD BARELY WALK! (You forgot drama queen, btw :doh: )

If that's dogshit... :noidea:

I agree that with an OC that can figure out a better play in the red zone than "Everyone try to get open while Ben gets chased around the pocket" then the team is going to be dangerous! :tt04:

Sneak
01-26-2012, 12:41 PM
The guy is a freaking hero in my book. Nothing that needs "fixing". Can he improve? Yes. So can Tom Brady. So could Peyton Manning before the injury. So can ANYONE at ANYTHING. Nobody is 100 percent perfect.

But you know what I say? I say we should be grateful for having Big Ben, because he goes out there and plays his heart out despite being hurt. He is also mobile enough (atleast when all limbs are intact) to actually make it viable to play with that OL of ours.

Honestly, to badmouth the guy for his performance in the matches after the Browns game, when he displayed great loyalty and leadership by even stepping out on the field is just nonsense. If he HADNT played he would have gotten crap for not being tough enough for the team.

As far as his character - are we talking about that stuff early last season? Or the motorcycle accident?

The accident, fine. He was being an asshole riding his bike. Seen any stories about him doing that lately?

About those women? Was he charged? It was all about "placing himself in that situation", as if he let the team down by going to a club in the offseason.

Seriously.. Leave the guy alone.

Ricco Suavez
01-26-2012, 06:29 PM
Myth #1 We scored more under Cowher when we ran the ball.
This is False we scored on avg less than we have with Tomlin as coach, As a matter of fact the scoring differential is less for Cowher than Tomlin.

Myth #2 But we won more when we ran. False again Tomlins win pct is higher than Cowhers even if you factor in his best rushing teams and his two SuperBowl teams. Matter of fact his first SuperBowl we were more a passing team with Neil O'Donnell as QB. And the one he won had a second year QB lead the team through three road games with these kind of numbers 49-72 68% 7TD 1 INT

Ricco Suavez
01-26-2012, 06:35 PM
Hey how bout we just cut Ben and start Batch next season, or maybe Dixon. We all know you can pick up a franchise QB nearly every draft. The Steelers have drafted a QB with their first pick 3 times in modern era Terry, Malone, and Ben. Now it appears to me that two of those times has paid in spades and Malone was not part of the equation. I can understand some critical statements but some of you guys are just showing hate. Personal life aside he has been a great QB for this Team. He is so selfish he plays hurt, takes hits, and takes up for a team mate publicly nearly always. Sorry if he wrecked some of your fantasy teams.

FanSince72
01-27-2012, 08:45 AM
Yeah, but don't forget he rode the defense's back every time. :doh:

:thumbsup:

:drink: Actually, I jest. I agree with you 110%. The dude may not do it all pretty like Brady and put up HUGE numbers like the other fantasy princesses, he's a gamer and just the type of guy I enjoy watching/having on our team. AND, he's numbers ARE NOT THAT BAD. Look at Ws and Ls, YPA/YPC, career QB rating, etc... Sure, he looked slow at the end of the year HE COULD BARELY WALK! (You forgot drama queen, btw :doh: )

If that's dogshit... :noidea:

I agree that with an OC that can figure out a better play in the red zone than "Everyone try to get open while Ben gets chased around the pocket" then the team is going to be dangerous! :tt04:



What they should do is park some cars on the field like they used to do at Three Rivers.
Then Ben can just tell a receiver to "Cut left at the red Chevy" like Bradshaw used to do.

60_MINUTES
01-27-2012, 09:36 PM
Myth #1 We scored more under Cowher when we ran the ball.
This is False we scored on avg less than we have with Tomlin as coach, As a matter of fact the scoring differential is less for Cowher than Tomlin.

Myth #2 But we won more when we ran. False again Tomlins win pct is higher than Cowhers even if you factor in his best rushing teams and his two SuperBowl teams. Matter of fact his first SuperBowl we were more a passing team with Neil O'Donnell as QB. And the one he won had a second year QB lead the team through three road games with these kind of numbers 49-72 68% 7TD 1 INT



Im not sure your main point I assume its that Tomlins way is better then cowhers.. one fact is Cowher did it for 15 years and during that time our Steelers had the most wins in football.. Dont get me wrong I agree with you Tomlin is off to a good start but lets not be stupid and compare him to Bill Cowher just yet... Cowher and Noll are HOF coaches... If Tomlin cont to win he will join them.. I hope he does thats for sure

60_MINUTES
01-27-2012, 09:43 PM
One last point.. Cowher took a team that had not won or been a real superbowl contender since 83 -84 basically about 6 0r 7 years of average to below average football... the next year he won the divison and of course was in AFC championship game and superbowl within the first 4 years... pretty impressive

Tomlin took over IMO one of the best talented teams in the history of football with a Franchise QB... very few Coaches ever step into something like this.. Two come to my mind.. Barry Switzer and George Siefort

Really think about it James Harrison, Arron Smith, Big Snack, Hines Ward, the BUS ( yes he was winding down ) Troy Pol, Big BEN...etc... etc... hell there are 3 HOF on this list at least... james Farrior Ike Taylor should get mentioned....

anyway how many coaches in history have taken over a team like this... Again dont get me wrong the people he is adding to it look to be in the next great line of Steelers.. So I agree Tomlin is on his way to greatness but no doubt about it Cowher had to rebuild a legecy... ground up... Tomlin just needed to tweak it a bit and get out the way dont screw it up so to speak

Ricco Suavez
01-27-2012, 11:38 PM
I agree Cowher did great, but a couple of counter points. Tomlin inherited a great team after what I would call a fluke year in 2006 that finished 8-8. Since then Tomlin's worst year was 9-7 where the defense played less than sterling. Cowher's team matched Tomlin's worst year or finished even worse 6 times in his 15 yr tenure. Cowher preached defense, much as we do today. Cowher believed in ball control, much like we did this past season. Cowher liked the power running game, we did not have that. Yet some on this board yearn for good ole Cowher days and while it produced "mostly" winning seasons, we came up short 13 out of 14 times advancing to the SuperBowl. Only the year O'Donnell played great did we make it to the show. Along come Ben and that all changes, sure we have great defenses nearly every year but Ben is the X factor come playoff times. Is he infallible ,no. After the Packers run last year and their near perfect regular season some thought Rodgers would lead them to the Championship again. It did not happen, we are unrealistic in expectations from not just our team but Ben also. I for one like our chances if we can stay healthy and get some help on the Line along with one more stud on defense. BTW I think O'Donnell takes alot of heat from our SuperBowl loss but before Ben came along he was the Best QB we had since TB.

Post Script: If Tomlin remains our Coach for an extended number of years I believe he will have some less than stellar years also. Longevity in coaching will catch up to you eventually.

60_MINUTES
01-28-2012, 12:06 AM
I agree Cowher did great, but a couple of counter points. Tomlin inherited a great team after what I would call a fluke year in 2006 that finished 8-8. Since then Tomlin's worst year was 9-7 where the defense played less than sterling. Cowher's team matched Tomlin's worst year or finished even worse 6 times in his 15 yr tenure. Cowher preached defense, much as we do today. Cowher believed in ball control, much like we did this past season. Cowher liked the power running game, we did not have that. Yet some on this board yearn for good ole Cowher days and while it produced "mostly" winning seasons, we came up short 13 out of 14 times advancing to the SuperBowl. Only the year O'Donnell played great did we make it to the show. Along come Ben and that all changes, sure we have great defenses nearly every year but Ben is the X factor come playoff times. Is he infallible ,no. After the Packers run last year and their near perfect regular season some thought Rodgers would lead them to the Championship again. It did not happen, we are unrealistic in expectations from not just our team but Ben also. I for one like our chances if we can stay healthy and get some help on the Line along with one more stud on defense. BTW I think O'Donnell takes alot of heat from our SuperBowl loss but before Ben came along he was the Best QB we had since TB.

Post Script: If Tomlin remains our Coach for an extended number of years I believe he will have some less than stellar years also. Longevity in coaching will catch up to you eventually.



I agree with alot of your points.. and I agree Tomlin will have a few off years.. I agree he looks like he can follow in the footsteps of Cowher and Noll and win games... but While I agree Tomlin seems to get a bad rap at times on some boards Cowher does as well... Bill Cowher is a HOF coach who under Cowher we had more wins than anyone in football.. The fact that just about every year under Cowher we made the playoffs and had a shot to go to the superbowl is wonderful.. If Tomlin can do that for us then Im sure most will respect him when its all said and done.l

I guess my main point when I debate on the mess boards about this is simple.. Tomlin is far to young in this thing to compare him to Cohwers, or Parcells, Nolls etc... Yes Bill only got the one super bowl Victory but he belongs on the list with the greats.. most experts Ive heard put him there.. Tomlin needs years to prove he belongs on the list..

The one thing I do disagree with you about is just how great of a turn around Cowher had to do with his team.. where as Tomlin had a Superbowl Team.. I still say just about any coach in football could have won the first couple of years with our Steelers... I do also give Tomlin Credit because his guys are now blending in and taking over and we still look great.. lets hope we keep it up and after the next twelve n four season maybe we can go into the playoffs a little more healthy...

One win over the ravens or maybe Texans or 9ers and I very well could have been playing the G men this week a match up I think we could have won... not to mention If we would have hosted AFC champ game I had 40 Yard line tickets Row A upper deck... very sweet seat I was licking my chops to have

oh well lets do it next year...Time to start talking about Free Agents and Draft IMO:drink::drink::drink:

FanSince72
01-28-2012, 12:46 AM
Im not sure your main point I assume its that Tomlins way is better then cowhers.. one fact is Cowher did it for 15 years and during that time our Steelers had the most wins in football.. Dont get me wrong I agree with you Tomlin is off to a good start but lets not be stupid and compare him to Bill Cowher just yet... Cowher and Noll are HOF coaches... If Tomlin cont to win he will join them.. I hope he does thats for sure

I was no big fan of Cowher.

With him it was basically get a lead, then play Martyball , settle for FG's and hope the defense can hold on.

The thing I remember most and what defines Cowher for me is when Ben, his second-year QB said to him in the middle of the SB, "Coach let's play to win, let's not play not to lose"

When a second year QB says something like that, then your coaching style is both questionable and noticeable.
Frankly, between that and his pet project -- Kordell, I really couldn't wait for Cowher to go.

Ricco Suavez
01-28-2012, 07:42 AM
Hey I defended Cowher many times during his tenure as coach. I too was a fan of tough football. But over time I realized we needed more than defense and a powerful back to get over the hump. During Bens first year you could see that even though the Coaching staff limited him somewhat what kind of potential he had. Then the next year during that late season run and through the playoffs they let him loose more and the rest is history. Tomlin has takin heat now and he is winning, just imagine how it will be when he has his first losing record.

jiminpa
01-28-2012, 08:10 AM
Hey I defended Cowher many times during his tenure as coach. I too was a fan of tough football. But over time I realized we needed more than defense and a powerful back to get over the hump. During Bens first year you could see that even though the Coaching staff limited him somewhat what kind of potential he had. Then the next year during that late season run and through the playoffs they let him loose more and the rest is history. Tomlin has takin heat now and he is winning, just imagine how it will be when he has his first losing record.Because every drunk yinzer in the stands and watching television can see that the Steelers are winning in spite of coaching decisions that high school players would get right.

Ricco Suavez
01-28-2012, 08:23 AM
Drunk Yinzers remember what they want, its like the pretty girls they tell their buddies they hooked up with. When they sober up they turn out to be Rosie O'Donnells.

BengalDestroyer
01-28-2012, 08:44 AM
Hey I defended Cowher many times during his tenure as coach. I too was a fan of tough football. But over time I realized we needed more than defense and a powerful back to get over the hump. During Bens first year you could see that even though the Coaching staff limited him somewhat what kind of potential he had. Then the next year during that late season run and through the playoffs they let him loose more and the rest is history. Tomlin has takin heat now and he is winning, just imagine how it will be when he has his first losing record.

I hope we never see that day...

ricardisimo
01-28-2012, 03:06 PM
Is it too late to fix this thread?