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View Full Version : Do you think the Arians "retirement" was a shot across Tomlins Bow....


BKAnthem
01-24-2012, 09:04 PM
By the Rooneys? I'm not saying he's in danger of being fired...but just that he better stop being as hands off with his coordinators as he has been? Or more may follow suit?

NoFieldFive
01-24-2012, 09:32 PM
wonder what Tomlin and Gilbert saw in Arians to want to keep him. did they really think the offense produced this past year?

good thing Rooney stepped in and made the right call.

tony hipchest
01-24-2012, 09:37 PM
in a way it was. but in another way it was kinda ownership protecting him and taking the pressure off.

tomlin is still a very young coach who has experienced a ton of success. im sure the last thing he wants to do is screw that all up with a bad (or the wrong) decision.

voila... all that is thrown out the window and taken out of his hands. now he can get back to running the team even if that means dealing with the beloved adversity he relishes.

im in management so i can understand. there are the rare instances where you are really stumped and can use your superiors expertice to lean on.

i am the boss and pretty much have full autonomous control of my project and all the employees, but there's been a time where MY boss stepped in with the assist, and did the "dirty work". i felt a sense of relief knowing they had my back and were willing to take the heat.

likewise i am willing to take the heat for my employees at times, even if THEY are wrong. i know they appreciate that as well.

i think its kinda just the nature of the business and we shouldnt read too much into it. life will go on and the steelers will get better.

60_MINUTES
01-24-2012, 09:49 PM
in a way it was. but in another way it was kinda ownership protecting him and taking the pressure off.

tomlin is still a very young coach who has experienced a ton of success. im sure the last thing he wants to do is screw that all up with a bad (or the wrong) decision.

voila... all that is thrown out the window and taken out of his hands. now he can get back to running the team even if that means dealing with the beloved adversity he relishes.

im in management so i can understand. there are the rare instances where you are really stumped and can use your superiors expertice to lean on.

i am the boss and pretty much have full autonomous control of my project and all the employees, but there's been a time where MY boss stepped in with the assist, and did the "dirty work". i felt a sense of relief knowing they had my back and were willing to take the heat.

likewise i am willing to take the heat for my employees at times, even if THEY are wrong. i know they appreciate that as well.

i think its kinda just the nature of the business and we shouldnt read too much into it. life will go on and the steelers will get better.



I know exactly what your saying and your right for the most part but I dont think so in this instance.. I actullay think Tomlin is to close to his players and to BEN... The Rooneys stepped in and I agree with the guy up top.. if I were Tomlin I think I might learn the difference in being a coach and being a friend who is a coach. To me getting to close to the guys is gonna bite you sooner or later

FrancoLambert
01-24-2012, 09:51 PM
It's certainly a nudge and hopefully Tomlin sees it that way. The offense cannot remain status quo and improve at the same time.

tony hipchest
01-24-2012, 10:28 PM
I know exactly what your saying and your right for the most part but I dont think so in this instance.. I actullay think Tomlin is to close to his players and to BEN... The Rooneys stepped in and I agree with the guy up top.. if I were Tomlin I think I might learn the difference in being a coach and being a friend who is a coach. To me getting to close to the guys is gonna bite you sooner or lateri give tomlin a bit more credit than that. he is an extremely intelligent man and one hell of a "people person". its in his nature.

but he most certainly knows where his bread is buttered.

i'd say he's a full blown company man in blue collared clothing, but thats just my perception.

the last thing anyone wants is baby huey resenting the HC for dumping his guardian. big ben can resent the rooneys all he wants as long as theyre still writing his checks and everything will be fine.

zcoop
01-24-2012, 10:36 PM
i give tomlin a bit more credit than that. he is an extremely intelligent man and one hell of a "people person". its in his nature.

but he most certainly knows where his bread is buttered.

i'd say he's a full blown company man in blue collared clothing, but thats just my perception.

the last thing anyone wants is baby huey resenting the HC for dumping his guardian. big ben can resent the rooneys all he wants as long as theyre still writing his checks and everything will be fine.

I give Mike more credit that that also. He is a grown azz man and has been for quite some time. He doesn't need a lesson on how to be a man.

The Rooneys hired him to do a job and I hope they will allow him to do it. The last thing we need is a Jerry Jones, Arthur Blank or Al Davis type of organization. That kind of management haven't won CHIT lately.

BKAnthem
01-24-2012, 11:10 PM
i give tomlin a bit more credit than that. he is an extremely intelligent man and one hell of a "people person". its in his nature.

but he most certainly knows where his bread is buttered.

i'd say he's a full blown company man in blue collared clothing, but thats just my perception.

the last thing anyone wants is baby huey resenting the HC for dumping his guardian. big ben can resent the rooneys all he wants as long as theyre still writing his checks and everything will be fine.

Good Point

60_MINUTES
01-24-2012, 11:15 PM
I give Mike more credit that that also. He is a grown azz man and has been for quite some time. He doesn't need a lesson on how to be a man.

The Rooneys hired him to do a job and I hope they will allow him to do it. The last thing we need is a Jerry Jones, Arthur Blank or Al Davis type of organization. That kind of management haven't won CHIT lately.



The Rooneys have done this for over 40 years... Im quite sure we know what kind of Management we have.. Tomlin on the other hand we dont know yet... all we do know is its clear to everyone that the Rooneys had to step in and fire a guy that everyone in the football world agreed needed to go... Now given the fact the Rooneys never do this... I think we can all agree... they are not anywhere near owners like you mentioned above ( again see 40 years of business for proof of that) it doesnt say alot for Tomlin being the man we think he is...

Yes he talks it but in this case the Rooneys had to walk it.. Lets hope Tomlin starts owning more things... Or maybe we can hope he unleeshes Hell on the Coord that everyone especailly his boss knows needs to go..

By the way Im not a Tomin hater... I just think the book is still out on the guy... all I do know is the Rooneys dont usually have to do things like this.. Their past doesnt need approval... Tomlins future will be defined on how he handles this team over the next 5 to 7 years.. So far he is off to a good start.. I still think he is to close to come guys which is understandable.. the guy is the same age they are... I think he will be a better coach 5 years from now.. again we will see about him.. we dont have to see about our Rooneys they have done it better than anyone else in history over the last 40 years

jiminpa
01-24-2012, 11:36 PM
Yes he talks it but in this case the Rooneys had to walk it.. Lets hope Tomlin starts owning more things...
I hope I am wrong, but that's how I've viewed him for years now. He can talk, but he doesn't walk. He strikes me as one of those guys who interviews great, but can't actually do the job. He would be a great team spokesman. He is an excellent corporate communicator; he can say absolutely nothing in a lot of words with the best of them, and that is a talent. He's has a very likable public persona, until he doesn't follow through with any of it, and as a spokesman he wouldn't be accountable for the follow through.

60_MINUTES
01-25-2012, 07:30 AM
I hope I am wrong, but that's how I've viewed him for years now. He can talk, but he doesn't walk. He strikes me as one of those guys who interviews great, but can't actually do the job. He would be a great team spokesman. He is an excellent corporate communicator; he can say absolutely nothing in a lot of words with the best of them, and that is a talent. He's has a very likable public persona, until he doesn't follow through with any of it, and as a spokesman he wouldn't be accountable for the follow through.



Right... I feel the same way you said it better than me. I do think he will end up learning from his mistakes.. I think he could end up being damn good but we are going through his growing pains until that happens... his mouth was ready to be the head man but his actions have been nothing more than coat tail riding... over the next 5 to 7 years he will no longer be able to ride that horse anymore and we will see what he's got. the one good thing is he is off to a good start and it looks to me like we are putting some good talent in place for him to make this his own show... Lets hope we see less mouth and more doing over the next few years

TRH
01-25-2012, 08:52 AM
I'm sure they worked with Tomlin.

Tomlin was definitely involved with working through it and none of us were in the room with Tomlin and Rooney, so its all speculation. Even though Tomlin gave him public support, i'm sure he worked with Rooney on this, not against him.

FanSince72
01-25-2012, 10:42 AM
I think Tomlin is one of those guys who has a hard time breaking up friendships or loyalties even if they may have become detrimental. I've seen that happen in job situations where a boss really needs to let a guy go but has trouble doing it because even though it's obvious that the guy really isn't cut out for the job, everyone likes him and couldn't imagine not having him around.

Maybe he realized that Arians may have taken the "passing thing" too far and realized that we needed to move in a different direction but saw that he was tight with Ben and maybe Tomlin and others liked him as well and he had problems when it came to pulling the trigger, so the Rooney's did it for him.

Maybe Tomlin is a little too "human" in that regard.

Atlanta Dan
01-25-2012, 11:37 AM
I think Tomlin is one of those guys who has a hard time breaking up friendships or loyalties even if they may have become detrimental. I've seen that happen in job situations where a boss really needs to let a guy go but has trouble doing it because even though it's obvious that the guy really isn't cut out for the job, everyone likes him and couldn't imagine not having him around.

Maybe he realized that Arians may have taken the "passing thing" too far and realized that we needed to move in a different direction but saw that he was tight with Ben and maybe Tomlin and others liked him as well and he had problems when it came to pulling the trigger, so the Rooney's did it for him.

Maybe Tomlin is a little too "human" in that regard.

Good points :drink:

Same attitude probably contributed to Aaron Smith not being placed on IR in 2010 and being brought back in 2011 without being required to take a haircut on his salary

Since Tomlin was told when he was hired in 2007 that LeBeau was staying, Arains was Tomlin's biggest coaching hire - a combination of loyalty and stubborness probbely contributed to Tomlin going to bat for Arains after the 2009 and 2011 seasons
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kan_t
01-25-2012, 11:40 AM
I'm sure they worked with Tomlin.

Tomlin was definitely involved with working through it and none of us were in the room with Tomlin and Rooney, so its all speculation. Even though Tomlin gave him public support, i'm sure he worked with Rooney on this, not against him.
Agreed. I think Tomlin was involved in this decision making and Rooney just acted as the 'Bad Guy' there.

Kanata-Steeler
01-25-2012, 02:04 PM
...you mean as in, shouldn't EVERYONE, in the entire Steelers' org (including TOMLIN) always be under the microscope ???.
Hell YES !!! -no one is irreplaceable.

zcoop
01-25-2012, 09:23 PM
The Rooneys have done this for over 40 years... Im quite sure we know what kind of Management we have.. Tomlin on the other hand we dont know yet... all we do know is its clear to everyone that the Rooneys had to step in and fire a guy that everyone in the football world agreed needed to go... Now given the fact the Rooneys never do this... I think we can all agree... they are not anywhere near owners like you mentioned above ( again see 40 years of business for proof of that) it doesnt say alot for Tomlin being the man we think he is...

Yes he talks it but in this case the Rooneys had to walk it.. Lets hope Tomlin starts owning more things... Or maybe we can hope he unleeshes Hell on the Coord that everyone especailly his boss knows needs to go..

By the way Im not a Tomin hater... I just think the book is still out on the guy... all I do know is the Rooneys dont usually have to do things like this.. Their past doesnt need approval... Tomlins future will be defined on how he handles this team over the next 5 to 7 years.. So far he is off to a good start.. I still think he is to close to come guys which is understandable.. the guy is the same age they are... I think he will be a better coach 5 years from now.. again we will see about him.. we dont have to see about our Rooneys they have done it better than anyone else in history over the last 40 years

Couldn't disagree more. You say we don't know Mike but we know the Rooneys. I don't know Mike nor the Rooneys. The elder Rooney's may have a reputation but the youngster in charge is quite different from the prior leadership, so we'll have to see where he wants to go from here. If in fact he did what you seem to suggest that he has done, then I stick to my point comparing him to Blank, Davis and Jones. You don't have to agree and I don't need your approval.:wink02:

Psst.........don't condesend to me, this is a message board.

60_MINUTES
01-25-2012, 11:06 PM
Couldn't disagree more. You say we don't know Mike but we know the Rooneys. I don't know Mike nor the Rooneys. The elder Rooney's may have a reputation but the youngster in charge is quite different from the prior leadership, so we'll have to see where he wants to go from here. If in fact he did what you seem to suggest that he has done, then I stick to my point comparing him to Blank, Davis and Jones. You don't have to agree and I don't need your approval.:wink02:

Psst.........don't condesend to me, this is a message board.

ART 2 has been involved in running this team for many years... last time I checked he was no youngster.. and I again I stick by my point the Rooneys dont have to prove anything to anyone... They as a family have done it better than anyone in history period.. Mike ( who is a youngster ) needs to prove himself... again he is off to a good start but how good he actually is will come out over the next 5 to 7 years... I think he will be good but he needs to quit talking all that shit and start walking some of it

zcoop
01-25-2012, 11:28 PM
ART 2 has been involved in running this team for many years... last time I checked he was no youngster.. and I again I stick by my point the Rooneys dont have to prove anything to anyone... They as a family have done it better than anyone in history period.. Mike ( who is a youngster ) needs to prove himself... again he is off to a good start but how good he actually is will come out over the next 5 to 7 years... I think he will be good but he needs to quit talking all that shit and start walking some of it

Is AR II the youngest of the owners? What chit are you referring to that Mike needs to start walking? The guys been great by any standards among his peers in the NFL HCing fraternity. What does he have to prove specifically?

60_MINUTES
01-26-2012, 08:55 PM
Is AR II the youngest of the owners? What chit are you referring to that Mike needs to start walking? The guys been great by any standards among his peers in the NFL HCing fraternity. What does he have to prove specifically?



I agree he is off to a good start... what does he have to prove??? he needs to prove he can win with his own team and his own people.. So far hes won with Bills team.. Bills D coord and bill cowhers star players... Only thing that is different from when Bill was here is the O... Tomlin put BA in place.. in which we got rid of the full back and started throwing on 3rd and inches.

at this point I view Mike no different then Barry Switzer and george Seifort... Again Tomlin is off to a good start and I actually think he is helping to bring in good players.. Wallace, Brown, Woodley, timmons hood....etc... I think he will end up being good over the long haul.. but right now he as won with Cowhers people and to me we will see what kind of coach he really is over the next 5 to 7 years.

As far as talking the talk everyone is getting tired of all the movie quotes and shit hes says but dont back up exmaple"""" Tomlin said we are gonna unleesh HELL! then we got our ass kicked 2 or 3 games in a row...

My favorie quote is " Put it on Tape" I just wished he would practice what he says and quit talking bullshit... Issac Redman come out a few years ago and put it on tape.. kicked ass on tape.. then Tomlin cut him.. thank GOD no one picked him up.. David Johnson puts it on tape every week... the tape shows he sucks but Tomlin keeps him in... CHris Kemo... sucked for two years on tape before we finally benched him... John Scott on tape sucking but Tomlin keeps playing him until BEN almost Dies against the colts and we do something...

Put it on Tape.. Put it on Tape.... ok Mike Watch the damn Tape

ricardisimo
01-26-2012, 09:47 PM
You can win a lot of games with continuity. Tomlin understands that. Obviously, at some point change has to come in. It can be dramatic or gradual. The set up for this year seems to be dramatic.

zcoop
01-26-2012, 10:03 PM
I agree he is off to a good start... what does he have to prove??? he needs to prove he can win with his own team and his own people.. So far hes won with Bills team.. Bills D coord and bill cowhers star players... Only thing that is different from when Bill was here is the O... Tomlin put BA in place.. in which we got rid of the full back and started throwing on 3rd and inches.

at this point I view Mike no different then Barry Switzer and george Seifort... Again Tomlin is off to a good start and I actually think he is helping to bring in good players.. Wallace, Brown, Woodley, timmons hood....etc... I think he will end up being good over the long haul.. but right now he as won with Cowhers people and to me we will see what kind of coach he really is over the next 5 to 7 years.

As far as talking the talk everyone is getting tired of all the movie quotes and shit hes says but dont back up exmaple"""" Tomlin said we are gonna unleesh HELL! then we got our ass kicked 2 or 3 games in a row...

My favorie quote is " Put it on Tape" I just wished he would practice what he says and quit talking bullshit... Issac Redman come out a few years ago and put it on tape.. kicked ass on tape.. then Tomlin cut him.. thank GOD no one picked him up.. David Johnson puts it on tape every week... the tape shows he sucks but Tomlin keeps him in... CHris Kemo... sucked for two years on tape before we finally benched him... John Scott on tape sucking but Tomlin keeps playing him until BEN almost Dies against the colts and we do something...

Put it on Tape.. Put it on Tape.... ok Mike Watch the damn Tape

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think you may have some kind of ax to grind with Mike.

You said we lost two or three games in a row after Mike talked about unleeshing Hell? Well, we lost a few games with a banged up team but we still finished 12 - 4 on the year in spite of being banged up. We have had a very good win loss record since 2007 with two SB apperances (1 win). Thats not too shabby.

You said that Mike won with Cowher's people? Thank God he has and it was a wise move on his part to maintain continuity. It took Cowher over a decade to win a SB with whatever players he had. I don't knock coach Cowher and consider him a Great coach but based on your logic, he was a failure (I don't think he was). I think Mike's been winning with His Own Team for quite some time now. He is the Steeler HC and has been since 2007.

I'll move forward and let you have your opinion on this. :coffee:

LVSteelersfan
01-26-2012, 10:34 PM
Bill's team is almost gone and the Steelers keep winning. His players have either moved on or have not played much due to injuries while Tomlin's players have stepped in and played quite well in their absence. I know we still have Ward (on the way out) Polomolu, Farrior (on the way out) Hampton (on the way out) Foote (should not have been brought back) McFadden (should not have been brought back). Porter is gone. Meanwhile this team won games this year with Wallace, Brown, Redman, Mendenhall, Worilds, Woodley, Gilbert, Pouncey, Foster, Hood, Lewis, Heyward, McClendon, Mundy, Sanders, Saunders, Sylvester, and Timmons. That is 18 players (and I am probably missing some) that are all Tomlin's players. Not hardly Cowher's team any more by any stretch. I think this team is going to be great for years to come because the draft has been excellent and Tomlin coaches these players up and expects them to fill in and do the job when a veteran goes down.

Fire Arians
01-26-2012, 10:37 PM
You can win a lot of games with continuity. Tomlin understands that. Obviously, at some point change has to come in. It can be dramatic or gradual. The set up for this year seems to be dramatic.

yep. big changes are coming almost out of necessity though because of salary cap and the number of free agents we have. this team may have a different face next season. for the better or worse is yet to be seen, but this may be one of the more interesting offseasons we've had in a while

60_MINUTES
01-26-2012, 10:45 PM
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think you may have some kind of ax to grind with Mike.

You said we lost two or three games in a row after Mike talked about unleeshing Hell? Well, we lost a few games with a banged up team but we still finished 12 - 4 on the year in spite of being banged up. We have had a very good win loss record since 2007 with two SB apperances (1 win). Thats not too shabby.

You said that Mike won with Cowher's people? Thank God he has and it was a wise move on his part to maintain continuity. It took Cowher over a decade to win a SB with whatever players he had. I don't knock coach Cowher and consider him a Great coach but based on your logic, he was a failure (I don't think he was). I think Mike's been winning with His Own Team for quite some time now. He is the Steeler HC and has been since 2007.

I'll move forward and let you have your opinion on this. :coffee:


I was reffering to his comment of unleeshing hell the year we missed the playoffs two years ago.. I dont have a beef with Mike.. I think he is off to a good start as well.. Im just looking at the facts.. I believe any average Coach could step in change nothing and win with the Steelers that Cowher left behind.. Cowher Took over a Decade to win the big one but we also had more wins then anyone during Cowhers time here.. not to mention he didnt have BEN for most of those years.. lets face it if you dont have a great QB its very hard to Win the Superbowl.

Back to my point I just think Tomlin got a team much like Barry Switzer did at Dallas.. He didnt have to to anything but not mess it up.. I feel like his in game decesions are getting better but have been down right terrible.. We are watching a very good X and O coach grow up and become a head coach before our eyes.. I actually think he could become one of the best coaches to come along in years.. He is not there yet. I understand how good hes done out the gate but again anyone with football knowledge could have done it with our team.. His ablity as a coach will define its self over the next 5 to 7 years... Like I said.. He is off to a good start with replacing players etc..

My main problem is if you tell the world you are a no bull shit kind of coach and you coach by what you see on tape then why in the world doesnt he pract what he preaches... Your a steeler fan you can tell me you can see every game that Chris Kemo Kills us.. or how terrible David Johnson is trying to play full back..

I Think Mike is a great talker but his mouth gets him in trouble sometimes.. If you are gonna be that direct you have to back it up.. you cant just nod your head and change nothing.. This is exactly what the problem was with BA.. for whatever Reason Tomlin cant see what ever other football mind in america sees.. BA just wasnt that good.. I think he talks a good game but when it comes to sitting across the table and making tough decesions it doesnt seem like he wants to pull the trigger..

oh well I dont think we have to agree to disagree... I agree with you Mike is off to a hell of a start.. I guess the only part I disagree on is Im not ready to label him as one of the greatest. Im not ready to put him in with the likes of Parcells, Jimmy Johnson, Cowher... Not yet but as he goes along he is on his way thats for sure... all the above guys are HOF coaches... lets see where Mike ends up