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View Full Version : Scoring a Safety on a Try for 1 point


GoFor6
07-05-2006, 09:22 AM
Ok NFL buffs - can you explain how a team can score 1 point for a safety on the "Try" after a touchdown. It is in the rules but has never happen. I will give the answer tomorrow. Have fun.

Ambridge
07-05-2006, 09:34 AM
Section 3 Try

Article 1

(c) if there is no kick and the Try results in what would ordinarily be a safety by the defense, one point is awarded to the offensive team.


I knew having an Official NFL Rulesbook would come in handy. :grin:

nicesteel4life
07-05-2006, 10:12 AM
BOING!!! WOW! That was DAM quick!
Guess this thread is dead!
Rep points for that stomp.....

BlackNGold203
07-05-2006, 10:13 AM
not too many plays result in a loss of 97 yards......

SteelerFanInCA
07-05-2006, 12:16 PM
Learn something new everyday. Yeah, that would have to be a pretty big loss of 97 yards. :smile:

GoFor6
07-05-2006, 12:23 PM
Ok you know the rule from the book but can you describe a play that would work. Hint - The play does not happen at the opposite goal as blackngold and FanInCA suggested.

Bigsteve332310
07-05-2006, 01:19 PM
If a player from the defense would get a turnover and would get tackled in the endzone for a safety after already having the ball out of the endzone.

steelcity984
07-05-2006, 01:46 PM
a fumble out of the end zone..

Ambridge
07-05-2006, 01:58 PM
If a player from the defense would get a turnover and would get tackled in the endzone for a safety after already having the ball out of the endzone.


I believe that would be the correct scenario right there???

GoFor6
07-05-2006, 02:10 PM
Nope. If the defense gains position on a Try - the ball in dead and no safety. Getting warm though.

GoFor6
07-05-2006, 02:12 PM
A fumble out of the end zone doesn't work. Think about it - all you need to do is fumble out of the end zone - that could happen on purpose all the time to get the safety.

Ambridge
07-05-2006, 02:26 PM
Nope. If the defense gains position on a Try - the ball in dead and no safety. Getting warm though.

My last guess is the defense gains posession of the ball in the endzone along with a personal foul/unsportsmanlike conduct penalty on the offense??

GoFor6
07-05-2006, 03:37 PM
Nice try but no go - GO Bridgers (class of 73 here)

Ambridge
07-05-2006, 10:00 PM
One last shot.

Whenever the defense causes the ball to be dead/recovers the ball in their own end zone on a two point try the offense is awarded one point???

Indy_Steelers
07-05-2006, 10:16 PM
Nope. If the defense gains position on a Try - the ball in dead and no safety. Getting warm though.

i thought the rule was that the defense could return a "try" for 2 points the other way.
for example if a team was going for 2 and it was fumbled or intercepted and returned it was 2 points the other way. unless by try you mean kick.


o.k.-
if the ball is intercepted in the field of play, on the try, by team A and fumbled into the endzone and recovered by team A it is a safety for the other team, 1 point.

GoFor6
07-05-2006, 11:58 PM
both good tries but not correct.

The "try" is the technical term for any play after a touchdown. There are 3 ways for offense to score on a try. Touchdown (2pts), Kick (1pt) and safety (1pt).

In response to latest guesses:

1. By rule the defense can never ever receive points on a try.

2. as soon as it is intercepted it is a dead ball. The defense can not run the other way for points.

3., Ambridge - when the ball is dead - it is dead. Recovery by defense is a dead ball.

Ok here is a scenerio. The ball is tossed backward to a running back, the running back has control but subsequently fumbles the ball on the way to the end zone. The defensive player swipes at the loose ball causing the ball to go out of bounds through the endzone. 1 point awarded as a safety to the offense because the defensive error in hitting a loose ball out of bounds through the endzone on a Try. The key is the defensive play making the swipe and causing the ball to go out through the endzone - if the offensive player creates the impedence then the play is dead - no points.

Please donate 10% of your Bar bets you win to my favorite charity - Steeler Fever Forum.

It has never happen in the NFL - YET, but it has in college.

klick81
07-06-2006, 01:25 AM
LOL...never would have thought of that.

Ambridge
07-06-2006, 03:28 AM
Under NFL rules, an unsuccessful try-for-point is dead if kicked, but while attempting a two-point try, it is possible for a safety to be ruled if the defensive team forces the ball back into their own end zone and they recover. One point would be awarded, instead of the two points that are normally awarded for safeties.

OK, I found this and was basing my last answer off of it.
Maybe I should have used the word "Downed" instead of "Dead".
Did I misinterpret??
Some of the rulebook verbage can get a little confusing.

Indy_Steelers
07-06-2006, 08:41 AM
http://www.funtrivia.com/en/Sports/NCAA-Football-Rules-9719.html


OK, here is the scoop. I could not find anywhere in the rules that says the ball is dead on a turnover. The ball is not dead when intercepted or a fumble is recovered. Here is the rule and the situation between Texas A&M and The University of Texas just as i have stated in my previous answer.

During an extra point try, Team A throws a forward pass which is intercepted by B3 at his own 2 yard line as his momentum is carrying him towards his own goal line. After making the catch, B3 fumbles the ball. The ball hits the ground at Team B's 1 yard line and then bounces into the end zone, where it is downed by a Team B player. What is the ruling and how many points (if any) are scored?


safety, 1 point for Team A. Rules 8-1-1, 8-5-1-a, and 8-7, and Approved Ruling 8-5-1-XI. This is really tricky, but the answer is correct according to the Approved Ruling cited above. Had B3's momentum carried him into the end zone before he fumbled, the ruling would have been a touchback for Team B because Team A would have been responsible for the ball being behind the goal line. However, since the ball was fumbled in front of the goal line, Team B is deemed to be responsible for the ball being behind its goal line when it was downed by a player of its own team. This situation meets the definition of a safety, and a safety scored on an extra point try is worth 1 point. A very similar situation ocurred in the 2004 University of Texas v. Texas A&M game, though instead of an intercepted forward pass, a Texas A&M player (Team B) recovered a blocked field goal attempt on the try. After recovering the ball, the player fumbled, the ball rolled into the endzone, and was downed by another A&M player, resulting in a 1 point safety for UT.

Indy_Steelers
07-06-2006, 08:44 AM
both good tries but not correct.

The "try" is the technical term for any play after a touchdown. There are 3 ways for offense to score on a try. Touchdown (2pts), Kick (1pt) and safety (1pt).

In response to latest guesses:

1. By rule the defense can never ever receive points on a try.

2. as soon as it is intercepted it is a dead ball. The defense can not run the other way for points.

3., Ambridge - when the ball is dead - it is dead. Recovery by defense is a dead ball.

please show me the specific rule because that is not what i have heard.

GoFor6
07-06-2006, 09:02 AM
Ambridge said: Under NFL rules, an unsuccessful try-for-point is dead if kicked, but while attempting a two-point try, it is possible for a safety to be ruled if the defensive team forces the ball back into their own end zone and they recover. One point would be awarded, instead of the two points that are normally awarded for safeties.

NFL Rules: Try
1. After a touchdown, the scoring team is allowed a try during one scrimmage down. The ball may be spotted anywhere between the inbounds lines, two or more yards from the goal line. The successful conversion counts one point by kick; two points for a successful conversion by touchdown; or one point for a safety.
2. The defensive team never can score on a try. As soon as defense gets possession or the kick is blocked or a touchdown is not scored, the try is over.
3. Any distance penalty for fouls committed by the defense that prevent the try from being attempted can be enforced on the succeeding try or succeeding kickoff. Any foul committed on a successful try will result in a distance penalty being assessed on the ensuing kickoff.
4. Only the fumbling player can recover and advance a fumble during a try.

In your scenerio Rule 4 would be in effect thus no point. Rule 2 eliminates any scoring on the opposite endzone safety or defensive td.

It came up to the rules committee in 1998 to allow defensive TD's but the traditional of the "Try" versus a "Play" is that it is a 1 down "free" opportunity for the offense to score additional points and they do not want to turn the Try into a play.

I would like to see an automatic minimum 5 seconds off the clock on Try's and field goal attempts. Some have questioned why a player just doesn't run around during a Try to kill the clock or even during a play near the end of game. It is my understanding that this is not allowed and the referree can call either a delay of game penalty or an unsportsman like conduct on the QB (no matter who delays the game).

Indy_Steelers
07-06-2006, 09:36 AM
i deleted this post my self because i quoted college rules and not NFL rules. my fault and i am sorry. i did however search for almost 1 hour and it took me forever to find anything on this. let's hear it for obscure rules. :)

BlackNGold203
07-06-2006, 09:38 AM
but you never quoted specific rules and i did. i think you are going of of hear say. the rule i quoted and the example clearly says that the ball is not dead on a turnover. and it stated a specific example of when this happened. so if the situation has happened then clearly the ball is not dead on a turnover.


Texas A&M and Texas???

College rules differ from NFL rules...I know in college a team can return a turnover for points during a 2pt conversion...this is not true in the NFL....

Indy_Steelers
07-06-2006, 09:57 AM
ok, ik think i have found out the confusion. nfl and college rules are getting mixed here.
in the NFL the play is dead and in college it is not. i do not have the exact rule but it is from a good source. this would be why my example is from a gollege game and not NFL and why it has not happened in the NFL. so there was a little confusion on my part. i do think that the NFL should adopt the college rule. and on a side note they should also adopt the OT rules.

Ambridge
07-07-2006, 04:52 AM
Ambridge said: Under NFL rules, an unsuccessful try-for-point is dead if kicked, but while attempting a two-point try, it is possible for a safety to be ruled if the defensive team forces the ball back into their own end zone and they recover. One point would be awarded, instead of the two points that are normally awarded for safeties.

NFL Rules: Try
1. After a touchdown, the scoring team is allowed a try during one scrimmage down. The ball may be spotted anywhere between the inbounds lines, two or more yards from the goal line. The successful conversion counts one point by kick; two points for a successful conversion by touchdown; or one point for a safety.
2. The defensive team never can score on a try. As soon as defense gets possession or the kick is blocked or a touchdown is not scored, the try is over.
3. Any distance penalty for fouls committed by the defense that prevent the try from being attempted can be enforced on the succeeding try or succeeding kickoff. Any foul committed on a successful try will result in a distance penalty being assessed on the ensuing kickoff.
4. Only the fumbling player can recover and advance a fumble during a try.

In your scenerio Rule 4 would be in effect thus no point. Rule 2 eliminates any scoring on the opposite endzone safety or defensive td.


There must be some wiggle room in the interpretation:
Under NFL rules, an unsuccessful try-for-point is dead if kicked, but while attempting a two-point try, it is possible for a safety to be ruled if the defensive team forces the ball back into their own end zone and they recover. One point would be awarded, instead of the two points that are normally awarded for safeties.

The above isn't my personal interpretation of the rule but that of well known former NFL Official Jerry Markbreit.

GoFor6
07-07-2006, 12:55 PM
Which endzone is Jerry calling the "defense's own endzone". Is it the one 3 yards behind the defense or the one 97 yards in front of the defense? Then I can reply.

rowedf
07-08-2006, 08:25 AM
Well, from the sounds of it, once the D gains possession, the play is dead, so technically, they cannot fumble, because you have to have possession to fumble. They keep saying one point for a safety, so they only way I could imagine 1 point being awarded is if the Offense somehow gets pushed back 97 yards and then get downed in the endzone .... but I also thought I read somehwere that the D cannot get points on this try, so I dunno.

Ambridge
07-08-2006, 03:34 PM
Markbreit didn't specify the endzone but going from his exact words:

is possible for a safety to be ruled if the defensive team forces the ball back into their own end zone and they recover.

Since the defense always defends their own endzone I would assume that's the one he is talking about.

GoFor6
07-09-2006, 01:02 PM
If you quoted him correctly, Jerry is dead wrong no matter what the scenerio. It is direct violations of the Safety and Try rules. I have written to Jerry at the Chicago Tribune where he writes an article answering rules questions. If he responds I will share his answer when I get it.

Ambridge
07-09-2006, 03:41 PM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/askthereferee/cs-041209jerrymarkbreitsanswers,1,5440703.story?coll= cs-bears-asktheref-headlines

The Chicago Tribune is where I got Jerry's answer at.
The original question is for the NCAA One point safety that occured in the Texas/Texas AM game a couple of years back........but he goes on to explain the NFL rule as well.