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mesaSteeler
01-28-2012, 11:35 PM
Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

Starkey: Steelers president out of bounds?

By Joe Starkey
PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Sunday, January 29, 2012

Oh, to be a fly pattern on the wall when Ben Roethlisberger sits down with Steelers president Art Rooney II to discuss the future of the team's offense.

Will the Steelers adopt the Rooney-n-Shoot?

Will they go back to three Arts and a cloud of dust?

Not that I expect the conversation to turn ugly. I didn't hear any hostility in Roethlisberger's voice when he spoke at the Pro Bowl the other day. He simply expressed a desire to "go up to Mr. Rooney's office" and talk.

That seems reasonable in the wake of offensive coordinator Bruce Arians' "retirement" and Rooney's assessment that Roethlisberger needs to "tweak" his game.

It's not like Ben is going up there with a gun. But if I'm him, I'm armed with a couple of game tapes -- the Kansas City win, for example, when he made a dozen miraculous plays merely to stay upright, let alone find a receiver -- and a few pertinent questions.

Such as:

What are you going to do with the $3.5 million left guard who can't pass block and keeps putting us at 2nd-and-20? How about you tweak that?

Who's going to protect the blind side?

This organization's best thinking resulted in Jonathan Scott manning the left-tackle position to start the season. Trai Essex spent time there, for goodness sake. They finally pulled a guy off his couch to take the job and were lucky Max Starks was in such good shape.

What an insane way to protect a $102 million investment.

Second-year tackle Marcus Gilbert might make the switch from right to left, but what's the backup plan with Starks now a free agent coming off knee surgery?

Rooney is right that Roethlisberger, nearing 30, must take less punishment. But it's a delicate balance because no quarterback works better off contact.

Roethlisberger's size and ability to extend plays are what make him unique -- and nobody is going to change his swashbuckling style.

Now, maybe he could slide once in a while and quit making tackles on interceptions. But the "get rid of the ball" mantra is a bit worn. Roethlisberger knows how to play the pocket rhythm game. Check the New England tape from Oct. 30.

The most logical way to reduce quarterback hits is to improve the line.

Meanwhile, the coordinator shakeup represents an interesting litmus test for Rooney, whose nine-year tenure has been a smashing success. He has not yet explained his role in the Arians ouster, dancing around it with such dexterity that Hines Ward should lend him the Mirror Ball Trophy for a month.

In an interview on the team's website, Rooney was asked the following: "Bruce Arians retired, and there are reports out there that you are the guy who retired him. What's your take on that?"

Replied the Art-ful dodger: "I think the questions of how we got here are not really relevant. The key now is that Mike (Tomlin, the head coach, remember him?) has begun the search for our next coordinator, and he'll do a good job of finding the right person."

The "right person" should be aware that the team president apparently has definite ideas of what he'd like to see when the Steelers break the huddle.

Presumably, he will convey those ideas to Big Ben.

Maybe this is normal. Maybe Tom Brady is breaking down game tape with Patriots owner Robert Kraft even as we speak. Maybe Eli Manning and Ann Mara are crafting the Giants' game plan for the Super Bowl.

Or maybe meddling Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones is proof that owners should own, coaches should coach, and players should play.

On the other hand, an owner who knows when to pick his spots can buoy a franchise. Which is precisely what Rooney's father, Dan, did when it came time for the Steelers to make their first-round pick in 2004.

As Dan Rooney recounted in his 2007 autobiography, "Our people seemed to have focused on Shawn Andrews, a big offensive tackle from Arkansas, as our likely number-one pick.

"But when our turn came, I couldn't bear the thought of passing on another great quarterback prospect the way we had passed on Dan Marino in 1983, so I steered the conversation around to Roethlisberger. After some more talk, we came to a consensus and picked Roethlisberger."

Pretty good move.

We'll know soon enough if the son has the father's magic touch when it comes to tweaking the offense.

Joe Starkey can be reached at jraystarkey@gmail.com or .

Read more: Starkey: Steelers president out of bounds? - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/print_778942.html#ixzz1kp3ijnJ1

tony hipchest
01-29-2012, 12:40 AM
i think its funny how now even the national media wants to champion arians cause( starkey and all the other local's aside).

rooney is an attorney by trade and a really good attorney can say ANYTHING but the truth without telling a lie, which is exactly what art II is being accused of here recently in regards to bruce's firing.

i blame arians' neice&nephewnation and all the other apologists for being too dense to read between the lines for the past 2 years.

dumb is as dumb does. arians nation woulda kept bruce.

former RB
01-29-2012, 04:35 AM
I think its funny when owners use their position to dictate football philosophy and make judgements on players and coachs.

Fans do the same thing.

The truth is that "unless you are wearing headphones, and hear what plays are being called", then you can't judge anyone, especially when you don't watch film and study tendencies of the opposing offense or defense.

Oc's and DC's make "INFORMED" decisions when they call plays. [ I HOPE ALL YOU EXPERTS JUST READ THAT AND IT SUNK IN].

BUT THE PLAYS THEY CALL AREN'T ALWAYS THE PLAY THAT GETS RAN. THE QB CAN AUDIBLE, THE PLAY CAN BREAK DOWN, THE QB CAN SCRAMBLE, AND THE PLAY JUST MIGHT NOT BE THERE.

Ben scrambles on at least 50% of pass plays, so we know for a certainty that 50% of pass plays called aren't ran.

As far as running plays go, if the run game isn't averaging at least 4.0 per attempt, most OC's go to the pass. But,who's fault is it if the run game doesn't average 4.0 per attempt. More often than not, it is the O Line coaches fault. I noticed that steeler O Linemen are poorly coached, and they appear to be physically weak. THEY LOOK SOFT AND FATTY.

The steeler O line should be employing trap blocks, pulling guards, running pass blocking draw runs, running counter tres, and and using an H-back. There is no shame in chop blocks either, it you have to do it to take a D lineman off his feet. The Steeler O line tries to drive bock, and can't. When they pass block, they get trucked.

After every single game I find myself wondering what would happen if Ben would run more than 50% of the plays called. I'd be very interested to see how Ariens would be percieved if he had a QB that ran the plays that Ariens called, instead of holding the ball and scrambling. It seems like when Ben does drop back and throw on rhythm, the reciever is usally there, the ball is just usually poorly thrown.

I think Ariens would be considered an offensive genius if he had a drop back rhythm passer. At least we could then judge his play calling skills.

I believe that a guy like Dermonti Dawson would make a good O line coach. He had a good football IQ and seemed to be a master of leverage.

former RB
01-29-2012, 04:48 AM
i think its funny how now even the national media wants to champion arians cause( starkey and all the other local's aside).

rooney is an attorney by trade and a really good attorney can say ANYTHING but the truth without telling a lie, which is exactly what art II is being accused of here recently in regards to bruce's firing.

i blame arians' neice&nephewnation and all the other apologists for being too dense to read between the lines for the past 2 years.

dumb is as dumb does. arians nation woulda kept bruce.

The Head coach and QB are in a position to judge Ariens, because they are wearing headgear that hears what plays are called, and they see that less than 50% are actually ran. National media isn't as stupid as you are. They are aware that Ben runs less than 1/2 of the plays called by Ariens because Ben holds the ball too long.
I think its funny when people like you make uninformed judgements and opinions about an Oc or Dc ability, when anybody with a pair of eyes knows that Ben rarely runs a play he calles in the huddle. BEN MAKES THE OC LOOK BAD BECAUSE HE DOESN'T RUN THE PLAY CALLED, AND HE MAKES THE O LINE LOOK BAD BECAUSE THE O LINE HAS KNOW IDEA HOW TO BLOCK IF BEN SCRAMBLES - THEY DON'T HAVE EYES ON THE BACK OF THEIR HEADS. THATS WHY BEN HAS SO MUCH TROUBLE PASSING EVEN IF HE DOES SCRAMBLE AND BUY TIME - THE WR'S ARE JUST RUNNING FIRE ROUTES BECAUSE THE CALLED ROUTE IS LONG DEAD.

IF YOU GOT PAID TO MAKE POSTS HERE, I THINK YOU'D GET FIRED. YOU HAVE NO CLUE ABOUT ANYTHING YOU SAY. YOUR OPINIONS ARE BASED ON IGNORANCE.

Bayz101
01-29-2012, 04:48 AM
I think its funny when owners use their position to dictate football philosophy and make judgements on players and coachs.

Fans do the same thing.

The truth is that "unless you are wearing headphones, and hear what plays are being called", then you can't judge anyone, especially when you don't watch film and study tendencies of the opposing offense or defense.

Oc's and DC's make "INFORMED" decisions when they call plays. [ I HOPE ALL YOU EXPERTS JUST READ THAT AND IT SUNK IN].

BUT THE PLAYS THEY CALL AREN'T ALWAYS THE PLAY THAT GETS RAN. THE QB CAN AUDIBLE, THE PLAY CAN BREAK DOWN, THE QB CAN SCRAMBLE, AND THE PLAY JUST MIGHT NOT BE THERE.

Ben scrambles on at least 50% of pass plays, so we know for a certainty that 50% of pass plays called aren't ran.

As far as running plays go, if the run game isn't averaging at least 4.0 per attempt, most OC's go to the pass. But,who's fault is it if the run game doesn't average 4.0 per attempt. More often than not, it is the O Line coaches fault. I noticed that steeler O Linemen are poorly coached, and they appear to be physically weak. THEY LOOK SOFT AND FATTY.

The steeler O line should be employing trap blocks, pulling guards, running pass blocking draw runs, running counter tres, and and using an H-back. There is no shame in chop blocks either, it you have to do it to take a D lineman off his feet. The Steeler O line tries to drive bock, and can't. When they pass block, they get trucked.

After every single game I find myself wondering what would happen if Ben would run more than 50% of the plays called. I'd be very interested to see how Ariens would be percieved if he had a QB that ran the plays that Ariens called, instead of holding the ball and scrambling. It seems like when Ben does drop back and throw on rhythm, the reciever is usally there, the ball is just usually poorly thrown.

I think Ariens would be considered an offensive genius if he had a drop back rhythm passer. At least we could then judge his play calling skills.

I believe that a guy like Dermonti Dawson would make a good O line coach. He had a good football IQ and seemed to be a master of leverage.

I feel i've heard this before.

Bayz101
01-29-2012, 04:53 AM
The Head coach and QB are in a position to judge Ariens, because they are wearing headgear that hears what plays are called, and they see that less than 50% are actually ran. National media isn't as stupid as you are. They are aware that Ben runs less than 1/2 of the plays called by Ariens because Ben holds the ball too long.
I think its funny when people like you make uninformed judgements and opinions about an Oc or Dc ability, when anybody with a pair of eyes knows that Ben rarely runs a play he calles in the huddle. BEN MAKES THE OC LOOK BAD BECAUSE HE DOESN'T RUN THE PLAY CALLED, AND HE MAKES THE O LINE LOOK BAD BECAUSE THE O LINE HAS KNOW IDEA HOW TO BLOCK IF BEN SCRAMBLES - THEY DON'T HAVE EYES ON THE BACK OF THEIR HEADS. THATS WHY BEN HAS SO MUCH TROUBLE PASSING EVEN IF HE DOES SCRAMBLE AND BUY TIME - THE WR'S ARE JUST RUNNING FIRE ROUTES BECAUSE THE CALLED ROUTE IS LONG DEAD.

IF YOU GOT PAID TO MAKE POSTS HERE, I THINK YOU'D GET FIRED. YOU HAVE NO CLUE ABOUT ANYTHING YOU SAY. YOUR OPINIONS ARE BASED ON IGNORANCE.

I think everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but all that extra jazz you added at the end wasn't necessary. Please tone it down :thumbsup:

Rick5895
01-29-2012, 05:05 AM
The Head coach and QB are in a position to judge Ariens, because they are wearing headgear that hears what plays are called, and they see that less than 50% are actually ran. National media isn't as stupid as you are. They are aware that Ben runs less than 1/2 of the plays called by Ariens because Ben holds the ball too long.
I think its funny when people like you make uninformed judgements and opinions about an Oc or Dc ability, when anybody with a pair of eyes knows that Ben rarely runs a play he calles in the huddle. BEN MAKES THE OC LOOK BAD BECAUSE HE DOESN'T RUN THE PLAY CALLED, AND HE MAKES THE O LINE LOOK BAD BECAUSE THE O LINE HAS KNOW IDEA HOW TO BLOCK IF BEN SCRAMBLES - THEY DON'T HAVE EYES ON THE BACK OF THEIR HEADS. THATS WHY BEN HAS SO MUCH TROUBLE PASSING EVEN IF HE DOES SCRAMBLE AND BUY TIME - THE WR'S ARE JUST RUNNING FIRE ROUTES BECAUSE THE CALLED ROUTE IS LONG DEAD.

IF YOU GOT PAID TO MAKE POSTS HERE, I THINK YOU'D GET FIRED. YOU HAVE NO CLUE ABOUT ANYTHING YOU SAY. YOUR OPINIONS ARE BASED ON IGNORANCE.

Once again you show your arrogance. What or who made you think that you are the only one with a valid opinion on anything. You remind me of the 30 and under generation that is seeping into the work force, so arrogant they refuse to take advice from anyone or listen to another point of view. In your case you take it to an anonymous football forum, but your arrogance this time is outdone by you personal attack at another poster and quite frankly ...you are out of line.
You played the game ..so what. Most of us on here did too, some of us even coach , whether at the minor football or high school level (maybe even some college)
TONE IT DOWN A LEVEL!!!

Rick5895
01-29-2012, 05:06 AM
I think everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but all that extra jazz you added at the end wasn't necessary. Please tone it down :thumbsup:

:thumbsup:

OX1947
01-29-2012, 05:07 AM
Why are so many writers up in arms about Bruce freakin Arians. The guy is and always was a shitty play caller. A blind midget could figure it out after a few games. The bases of an OC is to call plays well. That is the number one job that gets them head coaching jobs. Heck, even when they aren't calling the plays themselves but the plays are good, they get hired. Philbin got a coaching gig from that while McCarthy called all the plays.

Red zone deficiencies, and stubbornness to not adjust during games are the two things I look at. Those ****ing bubble screens all ****ing year. You would think after Suggs snuffed it out, he would have stopped throwing 500 of them a game. And the one that should have sealed the win for Denver that was gift wrapped for the Steelers, that would have been a fitting end to the offense in the Wild Card game.

Steelers offense has to score in the red zone, period. Simple and easy. When you have 3 receivers who are studs, a stud TE and two really good running backs and a QB who can throw lasers, how the hell do you not score TD's inside the 10. It doesn't make sense and now that this has been addressed, Steelers can get someone who's ego isn't up in the air where it doesn't even have the right to be, and the Steelers can start protecting its QB while it scores TDs when they are suppose to.

former RB
01-29-2012, 05:14 AM
Well, ignorant people around here - posing as informed people - like to repeat their spew from thread to thread. They make ignorant comments that have no basis in fact or reality.
And i often see it in all caps.

How can these people blame the O line and the OC when Ben doesn't run the called play? I can't even stand to watch a game at the bar with my friends because the people at the bar cry about the same thing. They bitch and moan and complain about the play calling and the lousy O line pass blocking. - I always have to remind them that if they want to judge, then judge when the called play is actually ran.

Pro QB's drop back, set up, then throw. Ben drops back, sets up, and holds the ball. Or scrambles. No QB gets more than 3 or 4 seconds from the time they get the snap until they throw.
Great Rb's run for 4.0 average. Poor Rb's run for 3.5 average. Bettis averaged about 4.1 over his career. Mendenhall is at less than 4.0. LITTLE THINGS MEAN A LOT IN THE NFL. Note*[RB AVERAGES ARE MY EDUCATED GUESS IN THIS POST]. I may be off by .1 on Bettis.

Talented RB's don't need a great line to run for over 4.0 per attempt. Payton, Simpson, Sanders, Martin, and Bo Jackson are good examples.

Steelers are bad judges of Rb talent. Remember some #1's - Tim Worley, Walter Abercrombie, Rashard Mendenhall.

There is an opportunity for a team to pick up Taiwan Jones from the Raiders because they want some draft picks this year and they have good RB depth.

TAIWAN JONES, WILL PROBABLY LEAD THE LEAGUE IN RUSHING THIS YEAR. And he probably won't play much until McFadden gets hurt for the year - which could happen on any carry. The league ain't seen the likes of Taiwan Jones since the days of Bo Jackson.

Bayz101
01-29-2012, 05:20 AM
Well, ignorant people around here - posing as informed people - like to repeat their spew from thread to thread. They make ignorant comments that have no basis in fact or reality.
And i often see it in all caps.

How can these people blame the O line and the OC when Ben doesn't run the called play? I can't even stand to watch a game at the bar with my friends because the people at the bar cry about the same thing. They bitch and moan and complain about the play calling and the lousy O line pass blocking. - I always have to remind them that if they want to judge, then judge when the called play is actually ran.

Pro QB's drop back, set up, then throw. Ben drops back, sets up, and holds the ball. Or scrambles. No QB gets more than 3 or 4 seconds from the time they get the snap until they throw.
Great Rb's run for 4.0 average. Poor Rb's run for 3.5 average. Bettis averaged about 4.1 over his career. Mendenhall is at less than 4.0. LITTLE THINGS MEAN A LOT IN THE NFL. Note*[RB AVERAGES ARE MY EDUCATED GUESS IN THIS POST]. I may be off by .1 on Bettis.

Talented RB's don't need a great line to run for over 4.0 per attempt. Payton, Simpson, Sanders, Martin, and Bo Jackson are good examples.

Steelers are bad judges of Rb talent. Remember some #1's - Tim Worley, Walter Abercrombie, Rashard Mendenhall.

There is an opportunity for a team to pick up Taiwan Jones from the Raiders because they want some draft picks this year and they have good RB depth.

TAIWAN JONES, WILL PROBABLY LEAD THE LEAGUE IN RUSHING THIS YEAR. And he probably won't play much until McFadden gets hurt for the year - which could happen on any carry. The league ain't seen the likes of Taiwan Jones since the days of Bo Jackson.

Okay. This is the same opinion in which you just shared thirty minutes ago, and that you've shared countless time's beforehand. I've read over your opinion, and I agree with it in some areas, and in other areas I don't. I certainly respect your opinion, as I do everyone's, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with every aspect of it? Nor does any other member.

Now, as for Taiwan Jones, why do you have so much faith in this kid? I remember him from E. Washington, but i'm not familiar with what he's done so far in the NFL to prove himself as a threat as the running back position? I'm going to look up some highlight videos on him now, i'm intrigued.

former RB
01-29-2012, 05:35 AM
Why are so many writers up in arms about Bruce freakin Arians. The guy is and always was a shitty play caller. A blind midget could figure it out after a few games. The bases of an OC is to call plays well. That is the number one job that gets them head coaching jobs. Heck, even when they aren't calling the plays themselves but the plays are good, they get hired. Philbin got a coaching gig from that while McCarthy called all the plays.

Red zone deficiencies, and stubbornness to not adjust during games are the two things I look at. Those ****ing bubble screens all ****ing year. You would think after Suggs snuffed it out, he would have stopped throwing 500 of them a game. And the one that should have sealed the win for Denver that was gift wrapped for the Steelers, that would have been a fitting end to the offense in the Wild Card game.

Steelers offense has to score in the red zone, period. Simple and easy. When you have 3 receivers who are studs, a stud TE and two really good running backs and a QB who can throw lasers, how the hell do you not score TD's inside the 10. It doesn't make sense and now that this has been addressed, Steelers can get someone who's ego isn't up in the air where it doesn't even have the right to be, and the Steelers can start protecting its QB while it scores TDs when they are suppose to.

*Shitty play caller?* How do you know? If Ben scrambles, HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE CALLED PLAY WAS, GENIUS!?

How do you know he wasn't adjusting in-game. If Ben scrambles, the called play is dead!

WR quick screens are QB red light audibles. They are called by the QB when he sees 2 deep safetys and 7 crowding the line in run/pass red dog blitz. He knows he is going to get bum rushed, so he audibles to a quick WR screen, draw, dig, or wham. The wham usually results in the Rb getting tackled for a loss. The dig gets your Wr hurt, so that leaves a draw which they used to try with Fast Willie, and he usually got tackled for a 5 yard loss. So the Wr screen is safe and can be big if the Wr beats one guy. REGARDLESS, IT IS THE QB CALL.

In the red zone, those "LAZERS" actually have to be thrown, if Ben doesn't pull the trigger, then its Bens fault. He can throw it away if no one is open.

You people just don't understand fundamental football. When a QB scrambles, the O line has no idea where he is, the recievers have to improvise, and the play called in the huddle is not going to be ran.

NO OC CAN RUN OUT ON THE FIELD AND MAKE A QB PULL THE TRIGGER.

Listen, if the OC calls a red zone play, say "X fade, Y slant, Z corner", and Ben takes the snap and scrambles, THE BLOCKING BREAKS DOWN, THE RECIEVERS RUN OUT OF ROUTE, AND THE CALLED PLAY IS NOT RAN. In that called play, the QB is supposed to throw the X fade on a 3 step drop, or if the X isn't open, throw the Y slant. If that isn't open, throw the Z corner, or throw it over his head and out the end zone.
BEN SCRAMBLES. IT TURNS IN SCHOOL YARD FOOTBALL.

Bayz101
01-29-2012, 05:50 AM
*Shitty play caller?* How do you know? If Ben scrambles, HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE CALLED PLAY WAS, GENIUS!?

How do you know he wasn't adjusting in-game. If Ben scrambles, the called play is dead!

WR quick screens are QB red light audibles. They are called by the QB when he sees 2 deep safetys and 7 crowding the line in run/pass red dog blitz. He knows he is going to get bum rushed, so he audibles to a quick WR screen, draw, dig, or wham. The wham usually results in the Rb getting tackled for a loss. The dig gets your Wr hurt, so that leaves a draw which they used to try with Fast Willie, and he usually got tackled for a 5 yard loss. So the Wr screen is safe and can be big if the Wr beats one guy. REGARDLESS, IT IS THE QB CALL.

In the red zone, those "LAZERS" actually have to be thrown, if Ben doesn't pull the trigger, then its Bens fault. He can throw it away if no one is open.

You people just don't understand fundamental football. When a QB scrambles, the O line has no idea where he is, the recievers have to improvise, and the play called in the huddle is not going to be ran.

NO OC CAN RUN OUT ON THE FIELD AND MAKE A QB PULL THE TRIGGER.

Listen, if the OC calls a red zone play, say "X fade, Y slant, Z corner", and Ben takes the snap and scrambles, THE BLOCKING BREAKS DOWN, THE RECIEVERS RUN OUT OF ROUTE, AND THE CALLED PLAY IS NOT RAN. In that called play, the QB is supposed to throw the X fade on a 3 step drop, or if the X isn't open, throw the Y slant. If that isn't open, throw the Z corner, or throw it over his head and out the end zone.
BEN SCRAMBLES. IT TURNS IN SCHOOL YARD FOOTBALL.

As i've heard.

Let's pretend that Arians doesn't go up to Ben on every play and say "Do your thing", or "do what you can to make a play". That's what any good coach would do, right? Encourage his player to make things happen??? I'm a quarterback, I know what a good coach would say!!!

Ben's style of play is what has won us so many games, and certainly helped us win two lombardi's since 2005. Arians play calling hasn't been great, and I think him leaving was good thing for us. We needed a fresh start. Although I don't think this offense's decline has been entirely on him, I think considering he's the offensive coordinator, most of that has to land on his shoulders, regardless on Ben's play.

I'm hoping to see that passion and intensity next year. It's something we've lacked outside of our Super Bowl appearances, and I think we'll need that intensity and will to win if we're going to make it far next year, and I certainly think we can.

Bayz101
01-29-2012, 05:56 AM
Listen. We're probably not going to agree on everything, and I really don't expect that out of anyone. But what I think we can all agree on is that this team won't get anywhere without a little passion and intensity next year, regardless of changed made. Ultimately, it's the players on the field that need to execute, and when they don't, it's the coaches that are held responsible. Unless of course it's a off-field issue, in which the players usually pay the price.

steeltheone
01-29-2012, 06:42 AM
I wouldnt say Mendy is a HOF type runner but he is also not an Abercrombie or Worley.

TRH
01-29-2012, 08:05 AM
I will say this..

You have a $102 million dollar QB........then you leave him completely unprotected back there with an OL that can't block for s***, The guy's back there trying not to get killed. I've been amazed over and over and over again just how FAST opposing defenses mow through our line and are on Ben in 2 seconds............................... at times with only 3 guys up at the line in prevent situations....they're still on him. That seriously needs fixed. That part i agree with, no question.

Boomer
01-29-2012, 08:37 AM
I will say this..

You have a $102 million dollar QB........then you leave him completely unprotected back there with an OL that can't block for s***, The guy's back there trying not to get killed. I've been amazed over and over and over again just how FAST opposing defenses mow through our line and are on Ben in 2 seconds............................... at times with only 3 guys up at the line in prevent situations....they're still on him. That seriously needs fixed. That part i agree with, no question.

Exactly. You can say it was play calling when you know your line can only block for a few seconds and you call a play that takes 7 or 8 seconds to develop. Then your QB HAS to scramble for his life.

former RB, you're not going to get anywhere with people on the board by constantly telling folks their opinions suck. I don't know why it's too hard for you to just say "Here's what I think" and lay out your thoughts without always having to tell us all how stupid we are. Sounds like you are compensating for something but that's my opinion. :chuckle: See how that works? Anyways, I'd suggest that if you get to a thread and feel the urge to start blasting at fellow Steelers fans before chiming in, then just skip the thread. But it would be a much better discussion if you could do your thing of playing devil's advocate without bashing folks here in the process.

6RingsAndCounting
01-29-2012, 09:02 AM
Why can't the media just accept that Arians is gone, oh wait, we're the Steelers, they have to try everything to stir up controversy.

MasterOfPuppets
01-29-2012, 10:49 AM
Roethlisberger knows how to play the pocket rhythm game. Check the New England tape from Oct. 30.

ok i checked the NE game tape. what i seen was a well thought out gameplan. a game plan that called for short drops and quick throws and was very successful. the same game plan that fans have wondered for years why its NEVER used to help protect the QB from a crappy oline. what happened to it after that game ? :banging:

Atlanta Dan
01-29-2012, 10:57 AM
ok i checked the NE game tape. what i seen was a well thought out gameplan. a game plan that called for short drops and quick throws and was very successful. the same game plan that fans have wondered for years why its NEVER used to help protect the QB from a crappy oline. what happened to it after that game ? :banging:

That plan also had been used successfully in the Tennessee game after Ben had been beaten up in Houston

Since it had been successful in weeks 5 and 8 Arians abandoned that plan since he was afraid other teams would start preparing for that plan - Arians preferred to mainatin the element of surprise

tony hipchest
01-29-2012, 12:50 PM
pats game and tenn game has already been mentioned. funny how our "shitty line" always blocks just fine when charlie batch is in there with a gameplan implimented for his style, strenghts and weaknesses...

:hunch:

LVSteelersfan
01-29-2012, 12:56 PM
The responsibility is on Arians AND Ben. Arians mostly in the red zone. Don't even try to tell me that Ben audibles to an empty backfield, 5 receiver set on 3rd and short in the red zone. That led to QB sacks and field goals all year long. Not even a chance to fool them into thinking you are running the ball and doing play action. That is all on Arians and is the reason we could not score from inside the 20. That is why he is gone. That and going to Marty ball with a lead less than a TD in the second half instead of running a wide open offense like they usually do in the first quarter. That led to a lot of games that were way too close for comfort.

OX1947
01-29-2012, 01:10 PM
*Shitty play caller?* How do you know? If Ben scrambles, HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE CALLED PLAY WAS, GENIUS!?

How do you know he wasn't adjusting in-game. If Ben scrambles, the called play is dead!

WR quick screens are QB red light audibles. They are called by the QB when he sees 2 deep safetys and 7 crowding the line in run/pass red dog blitz. He knows he is going to get bum rushed, so he audibles to a quick WR screen, draw, dig, or wham. The wham usually results in the Rb getting tackled for a loss. The dig gets your Wr hurt, so that leaves a draw which they used to try with Fast Willie, and he usually got tackled for a 5 yard loss. So the Wr screen is safe and can be big if the Wr beats one guy. REGARDLESS, IT IS THE QB CALL.
O
In the red zone, those "LAZERS" actually have to be thrown, if Ben doesn't pull the trigger, then its Bens fault. He can throw it away if no one is open.

You people just don't understand fundamental football. When a QB scrambles, the O line has no idea where he is, the recievers have to improvise, and the play called in the huddle is not going to be ran.

NO OC CAN RUN OUT ON THE FIELD AND MAKE A QB PULL THE TRIGGER.

Listen, if the OC calls a red zone play, say "X fade, Y slant, Z corner", and Ben takes the snap and scrambles, THE BLOCKING BREAKS DOWN, THE RECIEVERS RUN OUT OF ROUTE, AND THE CALLED PLAY IS NOT RAN. In that called play, the QB is supposed to throw the X fade on a 3 step drop, or if the X isn't open, throw the Y slant. If that isn't open, throw the Z corner, or throw it over his head and out the end zone.
BEN SCRAMBLES. IT TURNS IN SCHOOL YARD FOOTBALL.

Rather then living in fantasy land of "what plays were they running". I tend to go by what i see week in and week out. To me, an offense as talented as ours kicking field goals inside the 10, 9 out of 10 times tells me you have a coach who doesnt know how to take advantage of opportunites on a consistent bases. Big Ben may audible here in there, but i doubt he is audibling every time they are in the red zone.

Tomlin deserves more blame, and its probably why Art II got involved. Head coach is the decider and tomlin never seemed to do anything about the suckiness of david johnson and the formations during important. Im at home on my ass and i could predict their calls. Blame it on big ben, sure, but they are the coaches, its their job to control him and the offense.

OX1947
01-29-2012, 01:14 PM
*Shitty play caller?* How do you know? If Ben scrambles, HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE CALLED PLAY WAS, GENIUS!?

How do you know he wasn't adjusting in-game. If Ben scrambles, the called play is dead!

WR quick screens are QB red light audibles. They are called by the QB when he sees 2 deep safetys and 7 crowding the line in run/pass red dog blitz. He knows he is going to get bum rushed, so he audibles to a quick WR screen, draw, dig, or wham. The wham usually results in the Rb getting tackled for a loss. The dig gets your Wr hurt, so that leaves a draw which they used to try with Fast Willie, and he usually got tackled for a 5 yard loss. So the Wr screen is safe and can be big if the Wr beats one guy. REGARDLESS, IT IS THE QB CALL.
O
In the red zone, those "LAZERS" actually have to be thrown, if Ben doesn't pull the trigger, then its Bens fault. He can throw it away if no one is open.

You people just don't understand fundamental football. When a QB scrambles, the O line has no idea where he is, the recievers have to improvise, and the play called in the huddle is not going to be ran.

NO OC CAN RUN OUT ON THE FIELD AND MAKE A QB PULL THE TRIGGER.

Listen, if the OC calls a red zone play, say "X fade, Y slant, Z corner", and Ben takes the snap and scrambles, THE BLOCKING BREAKS DOWN, THE RECIEVERS RUN OUT OF ROUTE, AND THE CALLED PLAY IS NOT RAN. In that called play, the QB is supposed to throw the X fade on a 3 step drop, or if the X isn't open, throw the Y slant. If that isn't open, throw the Z corner, or throw it over his head and out the end zone.
BEN SCRAMBLES. IT TURNS IN SCHOOL YARD FOOTBALL.

Rather living in fantasy land of "what plays were they running". I tend to go by what i see week in and week out. To me, an offense as talented as ours kicking field goals inside the 10, 9 out of 10 times tells me you have a coach who doesnt know how to take advantage of opportunites on a consistent bases. Big Ben may audible here in there, but i doubt he is audibling every time they are in the red zone.

Tomlin deserves more blame, and its probably why Art II got involved. Head coach is the decider and tomlin never seemed to do anything about the suckiness of david johnson and the formations during important down. Im at home on my ass and i could predict their calls. Blame it on big ben, sure, but they are the coaches, its their job to control him and the offense.

Curtain_of_Steel
01-30-2012, 07:37 AM
Im no fan of BA... BUT, 2 superbowl wins? Ben has passed pretty well under him. Sure there are issues and I do believe we were ready for a change. The roasting here is a bit much.

But, what I think sealed the deal, was Mendys 1st and goal on the inches line, and they shut him down 4 times without going to Redman. However, Tomlin was standing right next to him, what did Rooneys chump do? Ignored it and did nothing to say hey, lets change the back. Turned to Dick and passed the torch to him with some words.

I sure hope they figured out we need an Oline lol

zcoop
01-30-2012, 07:21 PM
I think both Ben and BA were responsible for the inept O play. BA had some questionable plays at times but Ben held onto the ball way to long on plays that were dead. When Ben held onto the ball too long the play either ended up in a loss or turnover.

Some of you seem to forget that we had a 12 - 4 record and were in the Super Bowl last year. This team has some issues but what team doesn't? (The Giants and Patriots have their issues too).

Timbo
01-31-2012, 05:33 PM
*Shitty play caller?* How do you know? If Ben scrambles, HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE CALLED PLAY WAS, GENIUS!?

How do you know he wasn't adjusting in-game. If Ben scrambles, the called play is dead!

This seems to be the main point of your argument in every comment you make. You grasp the fact that all of these heroic, miraculous victories we witness are on Ben's shoulders. The extended plays, the laser accuracy in crucial moments (witnessed yet again in the Wild Card loss), these intangibles have won Super Bowls for Pittsburgh. Bruce Arians can't coach that. Like you said, over 50% of his called plays are never ran. Regardless if this is Ben's fault or the O Line or the call itself, it still leaves no evidence of Bruce Arians being a good play caller (or bad for that matter).

I think there is evidence of the Steelers relying on unnecessary heroics from Big Ben. I think Mr. Rooney realizes that is not a long term plan for success and wants to 'tweak' the offense into a reliable scoring machine that can blow teams out, not rely on miracles. Whether Bruce gave Ben too much freedom to ignore his play calls or the calls were just shitty and broke down, the inconsistency was obvious and this buddy-buddy shit needed to stop. I'm looking forward to moving forward!

harts
01-31-2012, 06:46 PM
I think its funny when owners use their position to dictate football philosophy and make judgements on players and coachs.

Fans do the same thing.

The truth is that "unless you are wearing headphones, and hear what plays are being called", then you can't judge anyone, especially when you don't watch film and study tendencies of the opposing offense or defense.

Oc's and DC's make "INFORMED" decisions when they call plays. [ I HOPE ALL YOU EXPERTS JUST READ THAT AND IT SUNK IN].

BUT THE PLAYS THEY CALL AREN'T ALWAYS THE PLAY THAT GETS RAN. THE QB CAN AUDIBLE, THE PLAY CAN BREAK DOWN, THE QB CAN SCRAMBLE, AND THE PLAY JUST MIGHT NOT BE THERE.

Ben scrambles on at least 50% of pass plays, so we know for a certainty that 50% of pass plays called aren't ran.

After every single game I find myself wondering what would happen if Ben would run more than 50% of the plays called. I'd be very interested to see how Ariens would be percieved if he had a QB that ran the plays that Ariens called, instead of holding the ball and scrambling. It seems like when Ben does drop back and throw on rhythm, the reciever is usally there, the ball is just usually poorly thrown.

I think Ariens would be considered an offensive genius if he had a drop back rhythm passer. At least we could then judge his play calling skills.
.

:thmbup:
exactly!

Bayz101
01-31-2012, 06:53 PM
Oh god, kill it before it lays eggs!

:rofl: