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View Full Version : 15mill trimmed with only 2 dead weight players?


Curtain_of_Steel
02-09-2012, 06:38 PM
Seems like getting under the cap has been pretty easy so far.

We havent even touched

Ward 3mill savings with taking a cut
Kemo 3.58mill
Farrior 2.8mill
Foote 3mill
Hampton 5.89 mill
smith 2.89mill
scott 2.7 mill

Almost 23mill with the above


Easily shift around another 15mill with the 3 below
Troy
Harrison
Ben

After getting under the cap, that leaves 28million to sign 11 players.

tony hipchest
02-09-2012, 06:57 PM
no... were 15 mil under the cap because we re-did woodley and timmons' contracts.

Bayz101
02-09-2012, 07:07 PM
Yeah, what Tony said. We restructured Timmon's and Woodley's contract's in order to improve the cap.

Darkstorm05
02-09-2012, 07:44 PM
After getting under the cap, that leaves 28million to sign 11 players.


Not quite. After the Timmons and Woodley restructure, we free up about 15 mil total including the prior cuts. Right now we have about 45 guys on our active roster under contract. Still assuming the cap is 125(This has not yet been determined), we still need to cut around 10 mil. We have like a dozen free agents that are up, one of which is Wallace. That means with the 45 guys still under live contracts, we need to free another 10 mil. We then need to free up enough to sign whoever is on the list of a dozen FA's we want to keep. We'll probably then be left needing to have enough money left to get us back up to a full roster on top of the FA's we retain.

Anyone we cut in step A above will also need to be replaced. For example, if you were to cut Hampton and draft a NT in the first round, you're not really saving all of Hampton's cap hit. Obviously for some positions we already have a replacement on hand, but we will be taking on more guys in the draft.

It's not the end of the world, but it's still a poor position to be in. I found a list of 2012 cap values for the teams today, and we're the worst cap offenders right now, by a huge 17 mil lead. Some silly decisions are coming back to haunt us(Like owing a 2012 cap hit to Randel El...really?).

Once the 2012 cap is finalized we'll likely get a better idea as it will be possible to actually crunch the numbers. Right now everyone is speculating the cap will be 125, but really it could be as low as 120. Will be a bit before the dust clears.

Bayz101
02-09-2012, 07:49 PM
It's going to be a shit process, but it's not the end of the world, as you said.

Curtain_of_Steel
02-09-2012, 07:49 PM
they cut 11mill in timmons and woodley, chopped Macf and battle, thats 15million. Cut 23million more with the dead weight I listed, thats 38million. Get 3 or 4 others to restructure an additional 15million. That leaves us 28mill for 11 players, if the cap is 125million.

That is what I listed.

Now, if they only listen, lol See how easy it is, lol

Darkstorm05
02-09-2012, 08:06 PM
Cut 23million more with the dead weight I listed, thats 38million.


That is kind of my point. if we outright cut the guys on your cut list, we now need to sign the 11 FA's PLUS replacements for the guys we just cut. For every guy we cut from the current roster to free space, we have to replace him with someone else, who will need paid.

So there's a trick to finding the balance, which is why we hired our "Cap Guru".

Edman
02-09-2012, 08:06 PM
Smith is gone.

Hampton and Farrior are likely on their way out as well, not to mention there is still plenty of dead weight on the roster.

ggoldman
02-09-2012, 08:14 PM
Smith is gone.

Hampton and Farrior are likely on their way out as well, not to mention there is still plenty of dead weight on the roster.

I think Hampton and Ward will take a pay cut

tony hipchest
02-09-2012, 08:35 PM
Once the 2012 cap is finalized we'll likely get a better idea as it will be possible to actually crunch the numbers. Right now everyone is speculating the cap will be 125, but really it could be as low as 120. Will be a bit before the dust clears.it has already been determined that the cap will stay the same for 2012 as it was in 2011.

no increase.

Darkstorm05
02-09-2012, 08:45 PM
it has already been determined that the cap will stay the same for 2012 as it was in 2011.

no increase.

Do you have a link to a report where you found it was finalized(Maybe showing the new borrowing allowances)? I've been scouring the web for solid reports and am still seeing articles published today that don't know the final number yet.

Bayz101
02-09-2012, 09:05 PM
It hasn't been officially set, but it's projected to be $121-125 million.

Curtain_of_Steel
02-09-2012, 09:11 PM
Its amazing how the cap can stay the same. Espcially with the huge media deals they signed, even though they are a year or 2 out on extensions revenues never have been higher.

The contract sure does favor the owners and the players shouldve maintained some sort of increase or you wind up with vterans being the large cuts.

Darkstorm05
02-09-2012, 09:40 PM
Its amazing how the cap can stay the same. Espcially with the huge media deals they signed, even though they are a year or 2 out on extensions revenues never have been higher.

The contract sure does favor the owners and the players shouldve maintained some sort of increase or you wind up with vterans being the large cuts.

if i understand it correctly, part of the cap is determined by the average over/under on the current cap across the league. So you have jacknut teams like the bengals that are 42 mil under because they want to be the Pittsburgh Pirates of the NFL and hire 3 stars and fill in the rest of the team with guys they had shilling peanuts in the stadium to save money.

mojonator73
02-09-2012, 10:32 PM
threads like these remind me just how important Omar Kahn is
hope he stays

Steel Peon
02-09-2012, 11:00 PM
threads like these remind me just how important Omar Kahn is
hope he stays
:iagree:

tony hipchest
02-10-2012, 12:04 AM
Do you have a link to a report where you found it was finalized(Maybe showing the new borrowing allowances)? I've been scouring the web for solid reports and am still seeing articles published today that don't know the final number yet.

nope. probably on nfl network or nfl radio on sirius. anyways, it is what it is, unless roger goodel pulls a tiny golden egg he has shoved and secured tightly out of his rectum at the last minute like he did afew years ago (2009?).

MACH1
02-10-2012, 12:13 AM
I heard it on sirius a few weeks ago.

tony hipchest
02-10-2012, 12:23 AM
I heard it on sirius a few weeks ago.yeah, the new cba pretty much stipulates what the cap will be last year and this upcoming one. there is very little wiggle room. the league confirmed there will be no increase, but since this was pretty much already known there was no big press release.

of course you got local fishwrap writers in every nfl city (who are waiting with baited breath for an official AP report) speculating on what it will be.

tanda10506
02-10-2012, 02:02 AM
Kemo is a must cut, he is a hinderrance and for some reason is paid well, that's a decent amount of money right there. Ward will restructure and if Hampton wants to play this year he will too. I didnt realize Hampton's contract was so large. Either Foote or Farrior is likely to go, and that's fine as long as we keep one of them. Smith is gone, that's sad, but the game has passed him by, yes injuries have held him back, but being out of football for years due to the injuries contributed a lot to his demise. I dont know too much about the contract restructuringa though, is it going to be something that bites us in the ass years down the road?

OX1947
02-10-2012, 02:43 AM
Being over the cap isn't what it use to be. The salary cap is at 120 million for god's sake. And with players willing to restructure on a whim, no one really gets effected unless they are players that are pretty much done. I think Steelers keep a lot of the vets who can still contribute as vets while their understudies get the majority of the minutes. Which will be good for leadership and depth.

Steelers just need 1 productive guard and a stud middle linebacker and they are in good shape. Another stud corner would be great, but those guys do not come too often in later rounds.

OX1947
02-10-2012, 02:45 AM
:iagree:

As much as I would like Omar to stay, eventually, he is taking a GM job whether it is this year or not. I am sure he is an ambitious man and doesn't want to be just a calculator the rest of his career.

ricardisimo
02-10-2012, 07:06 AM
I'm missing something: who are the two "dead weight players" in the OP's title?

Curtain_of_Steel
02-10-2012, 10:07 AM
The cap if revenue sharing, it doesnt matter how low the bungals are away from the current cap.

But with the players taking a haircut this year, its basically going to stay the same.

Curtain_of_Steel
02-10-2012, 10:08 AM
dead weight players

Macfadden-Battle

When I posted this, they had renegotiated with Woodley and Timmons saving about 11-12mill, abd cutting 2 players, saving 3million.

Darkstorm05
02-10-2012, 10:26 AM
The cap if revenue sharing, it doesnt matter how low the bungals are away from the current cap.



it still does in that if the Bengals are spending $40 mil less on players than every other team, that's $40 mil that isn't a hit against their team revenue. From what I'm reading the new CBA uses the term "All Revenue", which appears to mean whatever their total income minus all expenses as a franchise was for the year. If that interpretation is correct, that means being way under the cap will affect the cap total going into the next year.

Ronaldo
02-10-2012, 11:34 AM
Next off season is going to be really fun to see unfold. When the 90% rule kicks in and teams have to spend almost $110 Mill to suffice the rule and have the minimum cap. I really hope we get our key guys signed before that shit storm takes place because free agency is going to be nuts and guys will be getting astronomical type deals. Teams like the Bengals, Bucaneers, and Jaguars are close to $50 Mill under.

Darkstorm05
02-10-2012, 11:48 AM
Next off season is going to be really fun to see unfold. When the 90% rule kicks in and teams have to spend almost $110 Mill to suffice the rule and have the minimum cap. I really hope we get our key guys signed before that shit storm takes place because free agency is going to be nuts and guys will be getting astronomical type deals. Teams like the Bengals, Bucaneers, and Jaguars are close to $50 Mill under.

There are alot of ways this might go. I'm hoping it turns out to be a self correcting type of thing, and will be a payoff for a few guys who have contracts up during the "Gold Rush", so to speak. So for example, the floor comes into play, and we have everyone getting paid big for 2 or 3 years to eat up the cap to make it to the floor. Once we hit that point, maybe we then have new FA's hitting the market looking for say 8 mil a year to be a 2nd string CB, but now all the teams are all too hard against the cap, so the FA's can't cash in, and prices drop again. Back to business as usual.

Curtain_of_Steel
02-10-2012, 12:23 PM
Darkstorm, but it doesnt effect the reason for the cap being set at 125mill. Thats my point. I agree those dead beat teams should have to spend a min amount, like in the NBA. Obviously that occurs soon in the NFL. But its not a factor in the NFL setting the cap, that number is based purely on revenue sharing.

I'm not sure how a revenue sharing system works when another team can be 50mill under, lol

Darkstorm05
02-10-2012, 12:32 PM
I'm not sure how a revenue sharing system works when another team can be 50mill under, lol

Poorly. If Goodell was really concerned about doing what's best for the product and the fans, players, etc., franchises that field teams that would get their asses handed to them by second tier college squads year after year(Not to mention failing at ever filling their home stadium) should have their franchise auctioned off. The Bengals and Browns would be dealt with properly, once and for all, if we went that route.

Pentheon
02-10-2012, 01:42 PM
ike taylor restructured as well now...good shit guys

Fire Arians
02-10-2012, 02:01 PM
any downside to all these restructures in the long run? i mean they're basically moving the money around but the balance doesnt change (at least to my understanding)

Darkstorm05
02-10-2012, 02:07 PM
any downside to all these restructures in the long run? i mean they're basically moving the money around but the balance doesnt change (at least to my understanding)

There's always risk. If someone on a high dollar contract got guaranteed money moved to the back end, and they start stinking it up, we're stuck. Colon is a good example of this. If we cut him right now, he collects 4.6 mil from us anyway. If memory serves, i believe right now Max Starks isn't officially under contract(FA) but will collect 2 mil from us anyway.

tony hipchest
02-10-2012, 02:38 PM
any downside to all these restructures in the long run? i mean they're basically moving the money around but the balance doesnt change (at least to my understanding)out of any players, these 2 were two of the lowest risk, highest reward candidates available for a restructure (other than our franchise qb, of course). i'll explain why and how the smart FO's look at the restructuring process a little later in a seperate thread, when i have time for a more lengthy post.

Curtain_of_Steel
02-10-2012, 02:54 PM
So with Ike, its now 18million in savings with the 2 cuts that account for nothing.

When the steelers did these deals the intent was to restructure later as the Rooneys didn't need to pay the additional signing bonus. It lets 1 year go by, than shift the moneys out. The players get nothing less, and the owner had a year to shift moneies around.

By time they are done with a couple more restrucures and cuts we could be sitting with 20mill to spend, plus coupons, lol

Curtain_of_Steel
02-10-2012, 08:51 PM
Well if the hines report is true, than tack on another 4.8mill relief.

That will be almost 23mill, with only 3 cuts.