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View Full Version : Did anyone hear Schefter talking about Wallace today?


LayingTheWoodley56
02-17-2012, 08:26 PM
Pretty scary. I forget who was on the panel with him, but it was on Sportscenter and he was outlining the ways that a team like the Bengals or Ravens (the two he mentioned, and I think he might've thrown the Niners in there too) could offer him a ton of money to lure him out of Pittsburgh. Suffice to say it ruined my morning.

Bottom line is, we need to do everything we can to lock up Mike for the long-term, even if it means franchising him. As currently constituted, we have a trio of young receivers that is second only to the Giants, and they might be about to lose Manningham. If we lose Wallace, his second-half slide last year not withstanding, we're cut down to two and Sanders is a question mark with his injuries. If we have all three, we're in very good shape for Ben to air it out deep to #17 and that will open it up for Sanders n Brown to run wild underneath.

I don't care how they do it, but this has to be the number one priority right now. We'd be pretty crazy to let a home run threat like that walk, and even crazier if we let him go to a division rival. If that is the case, it would be scary for him to paired with Green and Simpson, but I'd much rather that over him going to Baltimore (which I don't think would happen - I can't think of one Steeler who is a former Raven, or vice versa. I think there is truly genuine dislike between the two teams that carries over to free agency decisions.)

At any rate, lock him up, even if it means we have to cut in other places.

Not least of all because I told my girlfriend that spending $100 at Heinz on a Wallace jersey for her was a good long-term investment. She's going to be pissed at me if that jersey becomes obsolete after two months.

lloydwoodson
02-17-2012, 08:44 PM
Rod Woodson really stands out to me as an all-time great Steeler who went to the Ravens. It bothers me just thinking about it but at least he got a ring.

LayingTheWoodley56
02-17-2012, 08:53 PM
Forgot about Woodson - he was slightly before my time. Warrants mentioning though that he defected in 1998 which - correct me if I'm wrong - is before this rivalry heated up since the Ravens were still such a new franchise. Recently we haven't seen it. Says something about the depth of the hatred in this rivalary, because you see guys going from the Giants to the Redskins, the Packers to the Vikings, etc. all the time.

Ricco Suavez
02-17-2012, 09:03 PM
The Steelers will not throw money at Wallace. If other teams want to turn it lose I have no ill wills toward him, get the best deal you can. The Steelers on the other hand do not have the cap room to make this a bidding war. We can only hope they put a fair deal out to him and him and his agent agree. We have another receiver coming up next year and if he has another year like last he will expect the same kind of deal Wallace will likely get. Hopefully the front office can get this cap down to where we can sign some of the current players and the new drafted Steeleers.

Curtain_of_Steel
02-17-2012, 09:07 PM
For 2 months I have been saying this.

But its not about throwing money at him, its structuring it the right way. He can have am avg 6-7 year deal at 42mill, front loading at 20million and we are screwed.

A 1 year tender at 2.47, Wallace will have multiple offers and you guys will paint Wallace as greedy? They couldve locked him up last year instead the Rooneys are worried about interview defending themselves about not making Tomlins call on the OC Who cares. Cut the dam players we need to cut and sign the ones we need.

zcoop
02-17-2012, 09:48 PM
How did our Chit get so jacked up in the first place? Why are we behind the eight ball? I hope we get this Chit right going forward.

Curtain_of_Steel
02-17-2012, 10:03 PM
Robbing Peter to Pay paul. Eventually it catches up to you. Dishing out some stupid contracts, Colon, Kemo, those certainly didn't help.

But the biggest reason is, LOYALTY to players with dimenished skills. Smith the past 2 years, Ward, thats 13million that couldve been used elsewhere.
Smith's deal this year, total waste especially when Ziggy did so well last year.

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-18-2012, 01:48 AM
Honestly, if the Bengals want to offer Wallace a ton of cash AND give upa 1st round pick to us.....go ahead.

I will goto camp with Brown, Sanders, Desean Jackson, Early Doucet and Miller. I bet Jackson would cost the same if not less than Wallace.....and we would get a 1st round pick too.

Why would teams go after a restricted free agent when there are unrestricted guys like Jackson, vincent Jackson, Dewayne Bowe, Reggie Wayne, Marques Colston, Stevie Johnson on the market??

Kingmagyar
02-18-2012, 04:12 AM
Ravens probably don't have the room for a front loaded contract for Wallace. So they are out. But the Patriots, Bengals, 49ers and God knows who else certainly could.

We won't be able to afford Desean Jackson either. There are a lot of teams out there with like 40-65 million under the cap. There is going to be some crazy money spent on those WRs this year.

Will other teams consider Wallace worth all that money considering his fall off in production especially in post season play?
2011 3 rec for 26 yards against Denver. He should have ruled in that game.
2010 4 rec for 26 yards against BAL and the Jets, before 9 for 89 in Superbowl (9.9 ypc is low)
The point being he can be shut down or held in check if a team decides to commit to it.


Losing Wallace may work out better in the long run. They could end up with a pro bowl nose tackle and Guard in the 1st round or grab WR Michael Floyd. And they better stock up and draft another WR like a Brian Quick mid round along with a mid range signing like Early Ducet. This is a good year in the draft for WRs.

Lots of other WR free agents out there.Will a team give up a #1 pick when they don't have to.

Would you rather have Mike Wallace or Michael Floyd Notre Dame WR?

Many many questions. We will know soon enough. I say unless he gets a new contract by the Steelers he will be gone.

Sean95m
02-18-2012, 05:11 AM
Like Tomlin has said and I agree because he becomes a ghost in games we need him. One trick pony! Teams have figured him out. Also he wont catch the tough pass over the middle like Brown did all season. Brown wants the ball no matter what. We might be better off with a second first rounder because we are 4 deep at WR.

Buddha Bus
02-18-2012, 07:51 AM
I can't think of one Steeler who is a former Raven, or vice versa.

Kordell Stewart, Brian St. Pierre, James Harrison (he went back and forth before sticking with us), Eric Green, Bam Morris, and Keydrick Vincent to name a few.

harts
02-18-2012, 08:24 AM
Robbing Peter to Pay paul. Eventually it catches up to you. Dishing out some stupid contracts, Colon, Kemo, those certainly didn't help.

But the biggest reason is, LOYALTY to players with dimenished skills. Smith the past 2 years, Ward, thats 13million that couldve been used elsewhere.
Smith's deal this year, total waste especially when Ziggy did so well last year.

Exactly!
they dont want to hear it though
Smith, Ward
OLD!
Should have been gone 1-2 years ago
We need to treat them like the Pats treat their players

steeltheone
02-18-2012, 08:26 AM
Wallace is not worth that kind of money to this team. Take the number 1 pick and move on.

FrancoLambert
02-18-2012, 08:44 AM
To all of those salary cap mavens out there.....
is it possible for us to cut/release enough "old wood/dead wood" to make it financially possible to keep Wallace?
If so, please elaborate and let's list who should go to keep Mike in B & G.
Thanks!

Buddha Bus
02-18-2012, 08:49 AM
To all of those salary cap mavens out there.....
is it possible for us to cut/release enough "old wood/dead wood" to make it financially possible to keep Wallace?
If so, please elaborate and let's list who should go to keep Mike in B & G.
Thanks!

I'm no cap guru, but I'd cut/let go Aaron Smith, Hampton, Foote, Kemo, Gay, Starks, and possibly Ward, Memo, and Farrior

That should free up some considerable money.

steelfury02
02-18-2012, 08:53 AM
receivers come, receivers go - iife moves on

Just remember Mike Wallace - the grass isn't always greener - you could have a QB like Mark Sanchez . . .just sayin Mike - highest bidder doesn't guarantee you a shot at Super Bowl immortality

Stay with the Steelers Mikey - they'll get you what you deserve - you might just have to demonstrate a little patience and show up a little more in the 2nd half of the season when the games get just a tad bigger . . .

FrancoLambert
02-18-2012, 09:03 AM
I'm no cap guru, but I'd cut/let go Aaron Smith, Hampton, Foote, Kemo, Gay, Starks, and possibly Ward, Memo, and Farrior

That should free up some considerable money.

I think we should keep Gay (never would have said this 2 years ago).
He has definitely improved and was an asset this year, not a liability.
He's a decent "nickel corner" and pretty good with the corner blitz.
As far as the others on your list, "let the cuts begin!"
:applaudit: :tt04: :tt04::tt02: :tt:

steelerchad
02-18-2012, 09:05 AM
I think Wallace's value isn't as high as some think. He had a terrible back half last year and still has some ?. His speed is unmatched, but he's not yet a complete receiver. I think he's likely the 4th biggest FA WR this year. It's good that there are other big names available. Would love to keep him, but not at $9M/yr.

Buddha Bus
02-18-2012, 09:14 AM
I think we should keep Gay (never would have said this 2 years ago).
He has definitely improved and was an asset this year, not a liability.
He's a decent "nickel corner" and pretty good with the corner blitz.
As far as the others on your list, "let the cuts begin!"
:applaudit: :tt04: :tt04::tt02: :tt:

I wouldn't hate it if they kept Gay based on his vast improvement under Carnell Lake. I just think we need to make a decision on Lewis, Brown, and/or Allen going forward. I think we can promote one of them to fill the spot cheaper and not lose much.

Of course, I could be completely wrong on that. The staff may feel none of them are ready for a starting role, but at some point we need one of them to step up and produce. Ike isn't getting any younger and Gay still worries me until he can do it consistently.

Steel Glory
02-18-2012, 09:19 AM
Please just let Washington or Jacksonville sign him and give us their first round pick. We could do much more with that.

Curtain_of_Steel
02-18-2012, 10:07 AM
You guys are so hard up on Wallaces 2nd half. He would doubled up all second half, the d backs played back, and Ben was injured. Brown was left alone and picked up the slack. You guys make is sound like Wallace went to Aruba for vacation..
Ben could not hit Wallace on a long ball if he stood alone due to injuries on Bens behalf.

There is a bigger picture to the 2nd half, you might want to check it out, lol

6-7million a year for Wallace, plenty worth it..

Curtain_of_Steel
02-18-2012, 10:18 AM
Bengals are 60million uunder the cap, as they can take moneies not spent in 2011 and shift to 2012. Basically frontloaded signing bonues without taking a negative hit for future years. All they need to do is alot that money in year one and than lower the subsequent years dramatically.

What idiots negotiated these cap rules, lol I find it hard to beelive the owners liked this plan across the board, when it affects a very select few teams. I'm sure though the Steelers FO went a long with it as they like to sniff Goodells a$$.

pete74
02-18-2012, 10:28 AM
I'm no cap guru, but I'd cut/let go Aaron Smith, Hampton, Foote, Kemo, Gay, Starks, and possibly Ward, Memo, and Farrior

That should free up some considerable money.

if we cut all those guys then yes it would save us money but we would also have to pay new players to fill in there positions

El-Gonzo Jackson
02-18-2012, 10:34 AM
Ravens probably don't have the room for a front loaded contract for Wallace. So they are out. But the Patriots, Bengals, 49ers and God knows who else certainly could.

We won't be able to afford Desean Jackson either. There are a lot of teams out there with like 40-65 million under the cap. There is going to be some crazy money spent on those WRs this year.

Will other teams consider Wallace worth all that money considering his fall off in production especially in post season play?
2011 3 rec for 26 yards against Denver. He should have ruled in that game.
2010 4 rec for 26 yards against BAL and the Jets, before 9 for 89 in Superbowl (9.9 ypc is low)
The point being he can be shut down or held in check if a team decides to commit to it.


Losing Wallace may work out better in the long run. They could end up with a pro bowl nose tackle and Guard in the 1st round or grab WR Michael Floyd. And they better stock up and draft another WR like a Brian Quick mid round along with a mid range signing like Early Ducet. This is a good year in the draft for WRs.

Lots of other WR free agents out there.Will a team give up a #1 pick when they don't have to.

Would you rather have Mike Wallace or Michael Floyd Notre Dame WR?

Many many questions. We will know soon enough. I say unless he gets a new contract by the Steelers he will be gone.

There are lots of other free agent players out there to garner that cap money by other teams. Mario Williams could cash in big.

Steelers will tender Wallace a qualifying offer, then try and work something out long term. If not, then he will leave after next season, like Burress did when unrestricted.

Buddha Bus
02-18-2012, 10:39 AM
if we cut all those guys then yes it would save us money but we would also have to pay new players to fill in there positions

Yes, but if we promote players to take their places (Hood, McClendon, Sylvester, Lewis, Brown, Allen, B.Batch, Heyward) or replace through the draft, we will still save a significant amount of money. I do realize we can't just cut guys and not replace them. A roster does still need to be filled out, but it can be done much cheaper. :wink02:

Navy86
02-18-2012, 11:31 AM
Yep, thanks to brilliant moves like Colon, we might lose a Wallace. I read somewhere that Colon won't consider a pay cut. He must feel 4.5 mil is fair compensation for sitting on IR for two years. :banging:

Sixburgher
02-18-2012, 11:51 AM
Yep, thanks to brilliant moves like Colon, we might lose a Wallace. I read somewhere that Colon won't consider a pay cut. He must feel 4.5 mil is fair compensation for sitting on IR for two years. :banging:

Yeah, damn it, if only the front office would have seen that Colon would obviously follow up an ACL tear with a torn triceps before offering by far their best offensive lineman outside of Pouncey a new deal. Isn't 20/20 hindsight wonderful?

Buddha Bus
02-18-2012, 11:55 AM
Yeah, dammit, if only the front office would have known Colon would follow up an ACL tear with a torn triceps before offering by far their best offensive lineman outside of Pouncey a new deal. Isn't 20/20 hindsight wonderful?

Agreed. He was playing at a high level when the contract was offered. No one could have foreseen the ACL injury. I think they made the right call and got a bad break, which can happen at any time to any one in the NFL.

I still think they should bring him back and move him to RG to help shore up the line in that area a little or just move Gilbert to LT and let Willie try again at RT. It's not like we have an abundance of great linemen sitting on the bench rotting to fill his position. May as well just go with the flow.

Sixburgher
02-18-2012, 11:59 AM
Agreed. He was playing at a high level when the contract was offered. No one could have foreseen the ACL injury. I think they made the right call and got a bad break, which can happen at any time to any one in the NFL.

I still think they should bring him back and move him to RG to help shore up the line in that area a little or just move Gilbert to LT and let Willie try again at RT. It's not like we have an abundance of great linemen sitting on the bench rotting to fill his position. May as well just go with the flow.

Exactly. I could understand the complaining about Colon in retrospect if the team was already flush with quality offensive lineman. It isn't.

Navy86
02-18-2012, 12:37 PM
Yeah, damn it, if only the front office would have seen that Colon would obviously follow up an ACL tear with a torn triceps before offering by far their best offensive lineman outside of Pouncey a new deal. Isn't 20/20 hindsight wonderful?

You missed my ultimate point, that Colon hasn't done didlisquat in the past 2 years yet he's not willing to take a pay cut to help out the team.

And I highly question anyone that thinks Colon was playing on a high level at RT prior to his contract. The organization was in a bad situation based on our OL talent at the time and IMO, paid him way too much for what he was providing.

6RingsAndCounting
02-18-2012, 12:39 PM
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:7587201

Theres what Schefter said.

FrancoLambert
02-18-2012, 01:03 PM
Yeah, damn it, if only the front office would have seen that Colon would obviously follow up an ACL tear with a torn triceps before offering by far their best offensive lineman outside of Pouncey a new deal. Isn't 20/20 hindsight wonderful?

Ahhhh....talking about keeping Wallace leads us to discussing the offensive line, the real Achilles Heal of the Steelers (and it should).

We have way too many backups (talent wise) playing as starters.
We all know the names. As for Colon, he's OK, nothing special, he fits in that group.

The offensive line needs a major infusion of talent (and not just bodies) from this draft.

DanRooney
02-18-2012, 01:43 PM
Don't worry guys. As long as we have our #1 priority Hines Ward we'll be good.

Steelerfreak58
02-18-2012, 01:49 PM
Losing Wallace doesn't hurt the organization if we are compensated by a 1st round pick one bit. Would hate to see him go but definitely don't want to see the organization over pay a WR we have a lot of options at that position.

DanRooney
02-18-2012, 02:06 PM
Losing Wallace doesn't hurt the organization if we are compensated by a 1st round pick one bit. Would hate to see him go but definitely don't want to see the organization over pay a WR we have a lot of options at that position.

Do we? Outside of him have Brown and a bunch of 300 yard receivers.

Navy86
02-18-2012, 02:10 PM
Losing Wallace doesn't hurt the organization if we are compensated by a 1st round pick one bit. Would hate to see him go but definitely don't want to see the organization over pay a WR we have a lot of options at that position.

I think that all depends upon Sanders staying healthy, Ward not being cut, and Cothery staying on the team. And, there will be no WRs the caliber of Wallace at the end of Rd1. Yes, there are some "different" types of WRs, but no real burners. The burners of this draft that are like Wallace was when he was coming out are all mid-rd prospects. They MIGHT be good, but I don't think anyone can reasonably expect that we'll get that lucky again.

You might be right, if everything pans out w/ the other WRs, but there is a little too much "if" in there for my comfort personally.

If there is anyway to franchise him for 9 mil, I'd be much happier w/ that option while they try to work out a longterm deal with him.

tanda10506
02-18-2012, 02:27 PM
Franchise him for 9 mil?? I dont think so. Contrary to what a lot of us think, Rooney said Wallace was top priority so he will probably be a Steeler for a while. I dont think we would be in to bad of a spot if he left though as long as we kept Ward and Cotchery. I know a lot of people think Ward is done, but statistically the offensive production decreased when he went out, and he probably wouldnt have got benched if Arians wasnt calling for it, and we all know what kind of ideas Arians had. At #4 WR, it wont get much better than Hines, that is as long as he is willing to take #4 pay. I think Cotchery is a pretty good WR and would like to see him back too. If Wallace leaves I am sure we will keep Cotchery. I'd like to see Wallace stay, but I really just dont want to see him go to NE. I know, especially for a younger guy, that money talks, but you also hear a lot of players going to places because they want to win a championship. Well the best opportunity for Wallace to win a championship is in Pittsburgh.

DanRooney
02-18-2012, 02:38 PM
Yes, there are some "different" types of WRs, but no real burners. The burners of this draft that are like Wallace was when he was coming out are all mid-rd prospects. They MIGHT be good, but I don't think anyone can reasonably expect that we'll get that lucky again.


Kendall Wright.

Fire Arians
02-18-2012, 03:19 PM
we'll find a way to get wallace in black & gold. next season i think our defense will take a small step back and we will have to rely on offense more to win games. having offensive continuity with our players will be key. we need to start making the needed cuts to the roster and get into talks with wallace if we're going to keep him. playing wait and see will only hurt us in the end

I only will be willing to part with wallace if we can get a top 15 pick that will land us DeCastro but of course that won't happen

kan_t
02-18-2012, 03:30 PM
Please just let Washington or Jacksonville sign him and give us their first round pick. We could do much more with that.
Sure. But a more realistic team may be 49ers which would only give up their 30th pick.

I still think that Wallace will still be a Steeler starting next season. If he does go to other team, my bet is 49ers.

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
02-18-2012, 03:38 PM
we'll find a way to get wallace in black & gold. next season i think our defense will take a small step back and we will have to rely on offense more to win games. having offensive continuity with our players will be key. we need to start making the needed cuts to the roster and get into talks with wallace if we're going to keep him. playing wait and see will only hurt us in the end

I only will be willing to part with wallace if we can get a top 15 pick that will land us DeCastro but of course that won't happen

Yeah if he does leave i hope its a early pick cause DeCastro would look good beside Pouncey...but i cant see him leaving since Mr. Rooney said he was the top priority so i cant see him leaving but when you have cap problems and they want to keep unless players *Cough Kemo, Aaron Smith Cough* they will never be able to re-sign great players like Mike and next year we have to re-sign Antonio and i see alot of faces that you think will retire a Steeler get cut.... maybe James Harrison :noidea:

Fire Arians
02-18-2012, 03:44 PM
Yeah if he does leave i hope its a early pick cause DeCastro would look good beside Pouncey...but i cant see him leaving since Mr. Rooney said he was the top priority so i cant see him leaving but when you have cap problems and they want to keep unless players *Cough Kemo, Aaron Smith Cough* they will never be able to re-sign great players like Mike and next year we have to re-sign Antonio and i see alot of faces that you think will retire a Steeler get cut.... maybe James Harrison :noidea:

James won't get cut. he still can play at a high level and would have without a doubt been a pro bowler this year if not for getting injured. james has 2-3 years left

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
02-18-2012, 03:47 PM
James won't get cut. he still can play at a high level and would have without a doubt been a pro bowler this year if not for getting injured. james has 2-3 years left

Im just talking about the Cap problems the Steelers have i want be surprised if he gets cut next year if Worilds is ready

ricardisimo
02-18-2012, 03:54 PM
I wouldn't hate it if they kept Gay based on his vast improvement under Carnell Lake. I just think we need to make a decision on Lewis, Brown, and/or Allen going forward. I think we can promote one of them to fill the spot cheaper and not lose much.

Of course, I could be completely wrong on that. The staff may feel none of them are ready for a starting role, but at some point we need one of them to step up and produce. Ike isn't getting any younger and Gay still worries me until he can do it consistently.
I could swear that Gay signed a one-year deal. He's UFA right now.

Navy86
02-18-2012, 03:55 PM
Kendall Wright.

I'm assuming Wright's gone by 24, and I'm not thrilled about trading up for him. But I get your point!

ricardisimo
02-18-2012, 03:55 PM
Im just talking about the Cap problems the Steelers have i want be surprised if he gets cut next year if Worilds is ready
Why not cut Ben if the cap is our only consideration here? :noidea:

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
02-18-2012, 03:57 PM
Why not cut Ben if the cap is our only consideration here? :noidea:

Who does this team need more??? Big Ben or James Harrison :coffee:

ricardisimo
02-18-2012, 04:03 PM
You guys are so hard up on Wallaces 2nd half. He would doubled up all second half, the d backs played back, and Ben was injured. Brown was left alone and picked up the slack. You guys make is sound like Wallace went to Aruba for vacation..
Ben could not hit Wallace on a long ball if he stood alone due to injuries on Bens behalf.

There is a bigger picture to the 2nd half, you might want to check it out, lol

6-7million a year for Wallace, plenty worth it..
Larry Fitzgerald is the best WR in the league, and he's paid like it. I think he earns his money. That said, the Cardinals are a worse team now after his contract, not better. Wallace could do the same to the Steelers with a monster contract, especially considering that we're not really hurting at the position.

Wallace is gone. Get used to it.

Oh, and as for Wallace's Aruba trip, we did see him take numerous breaks in-game all season long. He was the only Steeler running away from the ball at any given moment. If the ball wasn't thrown to him, he stayed away, avoiding contact at all costs. He has his reasons for that, I'm sure, but that's not a trait that will get him resigned long-term. Find me another top-tier WR in the league who disappeared so significantly for so long. If not for those damned bubble screens he would have had six catches in the last eight games.

kan_t
02-18-2012, 04:31 PM
Larry Fitzgerald is the best WR in the league, and he's paid like it. I think he earns his money. That said, the Cardinals are a worse team now after his contract, not better. Wallace could do the same to the Steelers with a monster contract, especially considering that we're not really hurting at the position.

Wallace is gone. Get used to it.
I think the Cards are a worse team now not because of his contract. It is because they can't find a good QB who can throw the ball to him.

Btw they have more than $20M cap space. I don't see how Fitzgerald's contract hurts them. If they want to improve the team, they have lots of cap space to spend.

ricardisimo
02-18-2012, 04:38 PM
Who does this team need more??? Big Ben or James Harrison :coffee:
I don't know, you tell me. What's our record in games without Ben vs. games without Harrison? I think we've done pretty well with Batch in there, not so well with Worilds... and Batch is older than dirt, by the way.

How's the coffee? :drink:

Curtain_of_Steel
02-18-2012, 04:42 PM
cut ben and james, lets not resign wallace and since brown will give us a problem signing him next year, lets trade him too. lol We can start batch for 800k a year, look at that savings that will bring? I'm sure some here think Batch is better than Ben anyway, lol

Luckily we are keeping Kahn to manage the cap problems he put us in. Now if they can figure out which end of the Fing hatchett to hold we can start cutting the dead wood and end all this stuff.

ricardisimo
02-18-2012, 04:48 PM
cut ben and james, lets not resign wallace and since brown will give us a problem signing him next year, lets trade him too. lol We can start batch for 800k a year, look at that savings that will bring? I'm sure some here think Batch is better than Ben anyway, lol

Luckily we are keeping Kahn to manage the cap problems he put us in. Now if they can figure out which end of the Fing hatchett to hold we can start cutting the dead wood and end all this stuff.
Precisely my point. Why wouldn't we cut Ben and James if the cap is our only consideration?

Bayz101
02-18-2012, 04:57 PM
People tend to think that once we're under the cap, it's all fine and dandy. Right now we're just trying to get under this cap before we're penalized. If we had our way, we'd be 20+ million under the cap now and exercising the money we can use. I guess with Mike, it all depends on his mindset about the Steelers, and that we don't know. If he's loyal to this team and franchise, we'll see him back next year. If not, we'll see him in another jersey, and it'll be hard for me to stomach that.

kan_t
02-18-2012, 05:07 PM
If Sanders was healthy last year, I would be much more comfortable about Wallace's leaving. I think the Steelers also feel the same. The Steelers will try their best in keeping Wallace and I think Wallace will give them a discount or Kahn will do his magic again.

Buddha Bus
02-18-2012, 05:36 PM
I could swear that Gay signed a one-year deal. He's UFA right now.

Who said he didn't? :hunch:

When I said "cut/let go", I meant not trying to re-sign him. Let him walk. Some of those same guys I mentioned may still retire too, which also is not a cut.

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
02-18-2012, 05:38 PM
I don't know, you tell me. What's our record in games without Ben vs. games without Harrison? I think we've done pretty well with Batch in there, not so well with Worilds... and Batch is older than dirt, by the way.

How's the coffee? :drink:

How many superbowls does Batch Have???

its pretty clear when Batch is out there the defence is at its best....and the coffee is great thanks for asking :wink02:

Bayz101
02-18-2012, 05:39 PM
I could swear that Gay signed a one-year deal. He's UFA right now.

We're not a risk of losing him due to his free-agency status. He's one of the mentioned players when the "Who to cut" discussion's come up.

I don't think he should be cut, but he's on the watch list.

Buddha Bus
02-18-2012, 05:41 PM
And I highly question anyone that thinks Colon was playing on a high level at RT prior to his contract. The organization was in a bad situation based on our OL talent at the time and IMO, paid him way too much for what he was providing.

He was widely considered by experts, players, and coaches as our best o-lineman before he tore his triceps. We were starving on our o-line for talent with no relief in sight. We had to keep him or the line would have only (shudder) gotten worse. I agree we overpaid for him, but we had to do something. We had no other viable options.

Bayz101
02-18-2012, 05:43 PM
How many superbowls does Batch Have???

its pretty clear when Batch is out there the defence is at its best....and the coffee is great thanks for asking :wink02:

Defense*

That was my coffee, asshole :chuckle:

Give it back :sofunny:

TRH
02-18-2012, 05:56 PM
# 1, its not surprising. There's going to be a few other teams who are definitely going to throw a boatload of money his way. Thats a given.

# 2, you're not going to "lock him up". Not going to happen. His agent is fully aware of whats coming down the pike and they're not going to settle and get "locked up". Ain't going to happen at this point.

If we do attempt to sign him, we're going to have to drive about 4 Brinks armored trucks up to the offices.

Bayz101
02-18-2012, 06:04 PM
# 1, its not surprising. There's going to be a few other teams who are definitely going to throw a boatload of money his way. Thats a given.

# 2, you're not going to "lock him up". Not going to happen. His agent is fully aware of whats coming down the pike and they're not going to settle and get "locked up". Ain't going to happen at this point.

If we do attempt to sign him, we're going to have to drive about 4 Brinks armored trucks up to the offices.

We haven't went all out on a wide-out before, and we won't start now. If he's really that money hungry, he can go. He had more reception yards in 2010 than he totaled this year, if i'm not mistaken, yet his post-season free-agency expectations are sky high. Speed's not everything.

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
02-18-2012, 06:05 PM
Defense*

That was my coffee, asshole :chuckle:

Give it back :sofunny:

Dont be so selfish we can share :drink:

Buddha Bus
02-18-2012, 06:07 PM
Dont be so selfish we can share :drink:

I doubt it if he's as much of a coffee wh0re as he is a post wh0re. :sofunny:

austinfrench76
02-18-2012, 06:09 PM
Much ado about nothing. I think Colbert will make this a top priority and will get this done. BUT, I'm curious to see how this effects everything else?? Wallace will cost us and we will have to make a tough decision somewhere else that I'm sure will casue a stir..on this forum! Go Steelers.

ricardisimo
02-19-2012, 03:01 AM
How many superbowls does Batch Have???

its pretty clear when Batch is out there the defence is at its best....and the coffee is great thanks for asking :wink02:
Charlie Batch has two Super Bowl rings in three visits... exactly the same as Harrison and Ben. You asked because...? :noidea: And our defense is at its best almost every single game, with very few exceptions.

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
02-19-2012, 03:20 AM
Charlie Batch has two Super Bowl rings in three visits... exactly the same as Harrison and Ben. You asked because...? :noidea: And our defense is at its best almost every single game, with very few exceptions.

who won the super bowls games Ben are Batch? oh really where was the defence in super Bowl 45? what about the playoff game against Denver?? oh wait nevermind.....but what am I talking about lets get rid of Big Ben since we can win with Batch :coffee:

Bayz101
02-19-2012, 03:38 AM
who won the super bowls games Ben are Batch? oh really where was the defence in super Bowl 45? what about the playoff game against Denver?? oh wait nevermind.....but what am I talking about lets get rid of Big Ben since we can win with Batch :coffee:

Seriously? I guess the three offensive turnover's and scoreless first quarter didn't matter, right? Green Bay scored on the opening drive, then Ben threw a pick-six. 14-0 to start the game.

Not good.

As far as i'm concerned, the defense allowed Green Bay's offense to gain only 338 yards offensively, compared to our 387. When our offense out-duel's there's, but still loses, it comes down to consistency and capitalization. I'm sorry pal, but even though our pass-defense wasn't great in 2010, it's not there fault. The Steelers flat-out couldn't execute in that game offensively. The defense gave them opportunity's, and we couldn't capitalize.

As for the Denver game: It comes down to health. We haven't been healthy all year long, and we weren't healthy then. You need to be healthy and hot going into the playoff's or your in for a world of pain and heartache. Not to mention Clark, our leading tackler, wasn't in that game.

And finally. Batch? He's a part of this team as much as anybody, and he's certainly done his share. Did he win the Super Bowl's? No. But he definitely helped mature our quarterback, that's for sure. And remember, Ben only won one of the Super Bowl's. :wink:

Defense is great.
Ben is great.
Offense is promising.
But defense win's championships.

We didn't get enough takeaways on D, and couldn't score on O. Things need to change.

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
02-19-2012, 04:02 AM
Seriously? I guess the three offensive turnover's and scoreless first quarter didn't matter, right? Green Bay scored on the opening drive, then Ben threw a pick-six. 14-0 to start the game.

Not good.

As far as i'm concerned, the defense allowed Green Bay's offense to gain only 338 yards offensively, compared to our 387. When our offense out-duel's there's, but still loses, it comes down to consistency and capitalization. I'm sorry pal, but even though our pass-defense wasn't great in 2010, it's not there fault. The Steelers flat-out couldn't execute in that game offensively. The defense gave them opportunity's, and we couldn't capitalize.

As for the Denver game: It comes down to health. We haven't been healthy all year long, and we weren't healthy then. You need to be healthy and hot going into the playoff's or your in for a world of pain and heartache. Not to mention Clark, our leading tackler, wasn't in that game.

And finally. Batch? He's a part of this team as much as anybody, and he's certainly done his share. Did he win the Super Bowl's? No. But he definitely helped mature our quarterback, that's for sure. And remember, Ben only won one of the Super Bowl's. :wink:

Defense is great.
Ben is great.
Offense is promising.
But defense win's championships.

We didn't get enough takeaways on D, and couldn't score on O. Things need to change.

Who do you blame for the first int? the line that did not protect and got Ben hit and made his throw go short? are do you blame it all on Ben? people really need to look closer to what happen and everyone will know that its not always Bens fault.

that Denver game came down to being healthy? i agree but wasnt Ike Taylor healthy? but still got bured for what the 3rd time that game? and did we even get a turnover in that game? do not care for looking up the stats from that game.....

Bayz101
02-19-2012, 04:33 AM
Who do you blame for the first int? the line that did not protect and got Ben hit and made his throw go short? are do you blame it all on Ben? people really need to look closer to what happen and everyone will know that its not always Bens fault.

that Denver game came down to being healthy? i agree but wasnt Ike Taylor healthy? but still got bured for what the 3rd time that game? and did we even get a turnover in that game? do not care for looking up the stats from that game.....

I didn't blame Ben at all. You blamed our loss on the defense. Offensive line=Offense.

It's easy to point out that Ike's bad game when he had the season he had. If you lose one member of your defense, especially that of Ryan Clark, our leading tackler, it effects the entire squad. Woodley wasn't back to full speed, and that was painfully obvious if you had watched him before the injury.

I guess Cortez Allen and Curtis Brown not being in the game didn't matter either, eh?

Anthony Madison started that game to fill in for the injuries at corner back, arguably our most improved position. That defensive coverage unit (our number one asset this year on defense) consisted players that hadn't played together as a starting unit EVER.

Our defense is what kept us in games all year this year, because the offense couldn't execute. The offense this year was worse than it was last year, and last's year's offense had the same issue, RED ZONE SCORING.

Our defense isn't the problem here, it's the offense's inability to keep the D off the field. Hopefully it's Todd Haley that'll come in and make things better. But there's no questioning this defense. It's why we're successful. Take it away, we score less than 10 points a game and i'd bet my damn house on that.

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
02-19-2012, 04:47 AM
I didn't blame Ben at all. You blamed our loss on the defense. Offensive line=Offense.

It's easy to point out that Ike's bad game when he had the season he had. If you lose one member of your defense, especially that of Ryan Clark, our leading tackler, it effects the entire squad. Woodley wasn't back to full speed, and that was painfully obvious if you had watched him before the injury.

I guess Cortez Allen and Curtis Brown not being in the game didn't matter either, eh?

Anthony Madison started that game to fill in for the injuries at corner back, arguably our most improved position. That defensive coverage unit (our number one asset this year on defense) consisted players that hadn't played together as a starting unit EVER.

Our defense is what kept us in games all year this year, because the offense couldn't execute. The offense this year was worse than it was last year, and last's year's offense had the same issue, RED ZONE SCORING.

Our defense isn't the problem here, it's the offense's inability to keep the D off the field. Hopefully it's Todd Haley that'll come in and make things better. But there's no questioning this defense. It's why we're successful. Take it away, we score less than 10 points a game and i'd bet my damn house on that.

but what cost us that game the game? defense

Offense Wins games End of story

P:S im going to bed we will finish this tomorrow lol :pillowfight:

ricardisimo
02-19-2012, 05:01 AM
but what cost us that game the game? defense

Offense Wins games End of story

P:S im going to bed we will finish this tomorrow lol :pillowfight:
This thread's been derailed pretty horrifically, and mostly because you didn't understand my main point: why not cut Ben and Harrison (and Troy, and Woodley, and Timmons...) if the cap is all that matters? The answer to that question - for those of you who need Cliff''s Notes - is that the cap is not all that matters.

Bayz101
02-19-2012, 05:24 AM
This thread's been derailed pretty horrifically, and mostly because you didn't understand my main point: why not cut Ben and Harrison (and Troy, and Woodley, and Timmons...) if the cap is all that matters? The answer to that question - for those of you who need Cliff''s Notes - is that the cap is not all that matters.

That.

Bayz101
02-19-2012, 05:26 AM
but what cost us that game the game? defense

Offense Wins games End of story

P:S im going to bed we will finish this tomorrow lol :pillowfight:

Nope, and you can't prove that otherwise. I could have been the numerous time's the offense failed to score, no?

How many time's you expect the offense to go to the well and come empty without getting it's hand smacked by the defense?

Keep shitting on them and they'll quit bailing you out, plain and simple. I'm done with this discussion. As Ricardo said, this topic's been derailed horrifically.

I'm out.

Steelerfreak58
02-19-2012, 11:41 AM
Do we? Outside of him have Brown and a bunch of 300 yard receivers.

Sanders is solid minus his mother passing away this year and his foot injury prior to that he was doing just fine. Cotchery and Brown are solid money.

6RingsAndCounting
02-19-2012, 12:46 PM
Have the Rams sign him, and draft Justin Blackmon :thumbsup:

PhantomJB93
02-19-2012, 02:39 PM
Have the Rams sign him, and draft Justin Blackmon :thumbsup:

This, I might actually be on board with haha

6RingsAndCounting
02-19-2012, 02:44 PM
This, I might actually be on board with haha

Too bad it's a pipe deam..:noidea:

Bayz101
02-19-2012, 02:47 PM
This, I might actually be on board with haha

:thumbsup:

PhantomJB93
02-19-2012, 02:53 PM
Too bad it's a pipe deam..:noidea:

I know, I was just saying it was one of the only scenarios (if completely improbable) where I wouldn't be too upset with losing Wallace.

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
02-19-2012, 03:00 PM
Nope, and you can't prove that otherwise. I could have been the numerous time's the offense failed to score, no?

How many time's you expect the offense to go to the well and come empty without getting it's hand smacked by the defense?

Keep shitting on them and they'll quit bailing you out, plain and simple. I'm done with this discussion. As Ricardo said, this topic's been derailed horrifically.

I'm out.

didnt the Pats have the 31st ranked defense?

didnt the NYG have the 27th ranked defense?

Didnt they both make the Super Bowl And we had the #1 defense and we got knock in the first round? offense wins games these days

thats all i have to say im done writing about this

6RingsAndCounting
02-19-2012, 03:05 PM
I know, I was just saying it was one of the only scenarios (if completely improbable) where I wouldn't be too upset with losing Wallace.

Or, we could take whatever pick we get, and trade our 2 first rounders for Larry Fitzgerald!
Do It Kevin!

Bayz101
02-19-2012, 03:54 PM
didnt the Pats have the 31st ranked defense?

didnt the NYG have the 27th ranked defense?

Didnt they both make the Super Bowl And we had the #1 defense and we got knock in the first round? offense wins games these days

thats all i have to say im done writing about this

Defense win's championships. It's only a year removed since we wen't to the Super Bowl on the power of that defense. Sure, powerful offense's can go to the SuperBowl, but that we don't have. We had a great defense and a below-average scoring offense. And by the way, the Giants have a great defense, no matter the numbers. They held Brady to 17 points, i'd say that's pretty good :hatsoff:

Make it what you will, but defense win's championships. It was the Giants defense that slowed the Patriots offense, and the two offense's only combined for 38 points. I'd say it wasn't the offense that won that game, especially if it only managed 21 points :wink:

DanRooney
02-19-2012, 04:04 PM
I'm assuming Wright's gone by 24, and I'm not thrilled about trading up for him. But I get your point!

Oh no way dude. Kendall Wright is going somewhere in the 2nd round.

Bayz101
02-19-2012, 04:11 PM
Oh no way dude. Kendall Wright is going somewhere in the 2nd round.

He's the #3 Wide-out in the draft as projected by several site's, and is expected to go in the early to mid twenties in the first round. I think Cleveland will get him with there second first round pick.

A top 5 receiver in the first round won't be around long in this pass-happy era of NFL football.

zcoop
02-19-2012, 04:12 PM
Defense win's championships. It's only a year removed since we wen't to the Super Bowl on the power of that defense. Sure, powerful offense's can go to the SuperBowl, but that we don't have. We had a great defense and a below-average scoring offense. And by the way, the Giants have a great defense, no matter the numbers. They held Brady to 17 points, i'd say that's pretty good :hatsoff:

Make it what you will, but defense win's championships. It was the Giants defense that slowed the Patriots offense, and the two offense's only combined for 38 points. I'd say it wasn't the offense that won that game, especially if it only managed 21 points :wink:

I disagree. In today's game it takes a balance between the D and O to win championships. The Giants D play well but so did the O and the O actually made the big plays to win that game.

The Ratbirds have an excellent D but the O sucks. They did manage to win one SB with D but the pendalum swings back and forth between D and O.

Bayz101
02-19-2012, 04:15 PM
I disagree. In today's game it takes a balance between the D and O to win championships. The Giants D play well but so did the O and the O actually made the big plays to win that game.

The Ratbirds have an excellent D but the O sucks. They did manage to win one SB with D but the pendalum swings back and forth between D and O.

When I say "Defense win's championships" i'm not saying offense doesn't. It obviously take's the best of both to win, and that's not why we're here. If we get a competent scoring offense together, we'll make it to the Super Bowl on the strength of our defense. That's how we won in 2008 and 2005, and we almost did it again in 2010.

Bayz101
02-19-2012, 04:20 PM
Oh no way dude. Kendall Wright is going somewhere in the 2nd round.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2012.php
http://www.drafttek.com/CMDRound1_17-32.asp
http://www.draftcountdown.com/sub/Mock-Draft-B.php
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1066788-2012-nfl-mock-draft-the-latest-first-round-buzz-and-predictions/page/23
http://newnfldraft.com/

All have him going in round one, and based on his performance, you don't need a mock to see he's a top player.

zcoop
02-19-2012, 04:25 PM
When I say "Defense win's championships" i'm not saying offense doesn't. It obviously take's the best of both to win, and that's not why we're here. If we get a competent scoring offense together, we'll make it to the Super Bowl on the strength of our defense. That's how we won in 2008 and 2005, and we almost did it again in 2010.

OK, I guess :noidea:

ricardisimo
02-19-2012, 04:25 PM
Is the entire Baylor team going in the first round? :huh:

Or, we could take whatever pick we get, and trade our 2 first rounders for Larry Fitzgerald!
Do It Kevin!
Fitzgerald is making something like $20M per year. Why not just offer Wallace half that much to stay?

Bayz101
02-19-2012, 04:27 PM
Is the entire Baylor team going in the first round? :huh:

Sure seem's like it. It's amazing what a Quarterback can do for a team :chuckle:

The funniest thing about it is it's looking like RG3 and his receiver will team up in Cleveland. That could potentially be a thorn in our side.

6RingsAndCounting
02-19-2012, 04:43 PM
Is the entire Baylor team going in the first round? :huh:


Fitzgerald is making something like $20M per year. Why not just offer Wallace half that much to stay?

Well, we could always get rid of Harrison's contract :wink02:

ricardisimo
02-19-2012, 04:50 PM
Well, we could always get rid of Harrison's contract :wink02:
And Ben. I think you're onto something. :scratchchin:

fujirama24
02-19-2012, 04:52 PM
Ive been saying this stuff for weeks now. And now the experts talk about it and everyone starts to believe. If we cut Kemo, Foote, W.Allen,A.smith, C.Hampton,H.Ward. Were still only about 5 million under the cap. If this team wants to resign Wallace then we have to restructure Ben And one of the other guys like polamalu. Or he will be gone. Yes we will get the teams first round pick. I have been saying I believe this team will be Chicago and we would get there pick #19. And we could get a decent player at #19 but it will set this franchise back 2 years. The only FA that I think can go deep like wallace is R.Meacham and he has underacheved. Were wallace has accelled. Loosing him is a real possibitly.

TRH
02-19-2012, 05:11 PM
Is the entire Baylor team going in the first round? :huh:


Fitzgerald is making something like $20M per year. Why not just offer Wallace half that much to stay?


Hahahaha....

Because THAT'S what Wallace and his AGENT will say yes to.

Us : We'll give you half the money Fitzgerald gets.
Wallace/agent : Yea, uh...ok.....NOT!!! (after they get done busting a gut laughing because they already know they're going to get the moon).

finesward
02-19-2012, 05:40 PM
Ive been saying this stuff for weeks now. And now the experts talk about it and everyone starts to believe. If we cut Kemo, Foote, W.Allen,A.smith, C.Hampton,H.Ward. Were still only about 5 million under the cap. If this team wants to resign Wallace then we have to restructure Ben And one of the other guys like polamalu. Or he will be gone. Yes we will get the teams first round pick. I have been saying I believe this team will be Chicago and we would get there pick #19. And we could get a decent player at #19 but it will set this franchise back 2 years. The only FA that I think can go deep like wallace is R.Meacham and he has underacheved. Were wallace has accelled. Loosing him is a real possibitly.

This is where I respectfully disagree. If we were ranked in the top 5 on offense, then you could maybe make the case that losing wallace would set us back years. Some might have said the same when santonio left. What we have desperately needed on Offense is consistency and upgrades on the line. Pouncey was a start, gilbert was a good addition, and with wallace giving us an additional 1st rounder we could spend 2 or even 3 first day picks and hoping all 3 are better than the backups we have starting now we will have effectively turned an area of desperate need into a strength that the team can build around moving forward. The going deep stuff was great in theory, and made for some exciting plays, but with our defense I'd rather our Offense be able to grind out 9-10 play drives, march it down the field at will, and punch the ball in when we get into the RZ. It's not like we don't have speed guys. Brown has the ability to get behind a defense, he showed it a few times in the preseason games as I recall. I believe enough to keep a safety deep on him so they can't bring both down to play the run. Redman is the type of runner we need, and hopefully him and dwyer can split carries and run effectively. John Clay could be a nice bruiser to get in the mix. Despite the league falling in love with passing, I still think a team that can dominate possession and keep a defense fresh has the best chance of playing come January.

I would prefer we lose wallace and keep ben upright, then go into a cutting frenzy to keep him. I just think this is a great opportunity to solidify that offensive line. I think if ben has time he can be just as deadly as brady, and as of right now with wallace gone we still have a better corp of receivers than him. Brown, Sanders, Cotch and Miller> Welker, Gronk, Hernandez + whatever the other "receiver"/DB/midget they have catching balls for them

jtbsteeler
02-21-2012, 08:55 AM
tender him and hope someone in the top half of the draft signs him. Then the haters will yap about how unfair it is for the Steelers to have 2 1st round picks.

madtowndrunkard
02-21-2012, 09:29 AM
We can't keep both Wallace and Brown. The cap situation will not allow us to do it. Which is just another reason we needed an OC that believed in the run, because few teams can ever afford to have 2 or 3 elite WR's on the field.

It reminds me of when we chose between Plax and Ward...now we need to choose between Wallace and Brown. I think the unanimous choice among coaches and those who understand the position will be Brown. Also the possibility of getting a 1st round pick by letting Wallace walk, is pretty darn tempting.

It's like having the bank repo your car...then giving you $30K to buy a new one for the troubles. It's like a good trade really. We save a ton of cap space by not signing Wallace, plus we get a 1st round pick who we get on the cheap for 4-5 years. Plus we've got a budding star in Brown...a damn good WR in Sanders, hopefully Ward and maybe even Cotchery. Not to mention we can use a draft pick if we want.

Now ask your self what do you do with 2 first round picks? Historically the steelers hit the jackpot in the 1st round.

I'm thinking new kicker and punter with our first 2 picks.