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View Full Version : Which is greater (Wallace or Potential Draft Stud + Top Free Agent WR) ?


Fastandfaster17
02-21-2012, 10:47 AM
So I was thinking about this. Let's say theoretically* Omar Khan can clear enough cap room for a Mike Wallace deal. Is Mike Wallace really worth the 9 mil + he is going to command?

You could let someone like the Patriots or Bengals grab wallace of the 1st round tender and not fight for him at all. Pick up a 1st round pick, and now the steelers are in an excellent position to either trade up and pick up a top 10 player off the draft board, or trade down and stock pile some 2nd and 3rd round picks.. Then they can go out and with the cap room Khan cleared pick up a Vincent Jackson, Dwayne Bowe, Marques Colston, Reggie Jackson for that 2-3 year deal which will sure up our receiving core with a legit proven WR, and great veteran leadership. All the while we draft another couple 3-6 round draft WR guys who turn into legit playmakers over the next 2-4 years with brown and sanders.

What do you all think?

I just don't know if its worth it (Wallace or Potential Draft Stud + Top Free Agent WR)

madtowndrunkard
02-21-2012, 11:04 AM
I think your thinking is flawed.

We let Wallace go, we are not going to save a bunch of cap space to sign another WR. That 1st round pick we sign will likely cost just as much (or more) as Wallace did last season. So that is a wash.

Sure we wont be spending $9million per on Wallace... which we don't have the space for anyway. If anything NOT signing Wallace only allows us to extend Brown next year. It does not suddenly clear cap space to sign other players. The nice thing about the 1st round pick is we get another talented player 4-5 years on the cheap. Thus allowing us to keep some of the players we have - like Brown. If we sign Wallace you can forget about Brown and probably a couple other guys.


We are approx $20million over the cap with Wallace not even on the books. So NOT keeping Wallace is not suddenly going to give us a bunch of $ to play with. It only means we don't have to cut even more people. You are nuts if you think we can let Wallace walk, then sign a top FA WR.

Fastandfaster17
02-21-2012, 11:09 AM
I suppose I was looking at a situation like this one

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/02/fitting-mike-wallace-under-the-steelers-2012-salary-cap-while-wearing-franchise-tag/

Where the steelers found a way to clear that much cap room for a Wallace Tag or resign.

Where in a first round pick would cost somewhere around $1.25 against the cap normally.

plenewken
02-21-2012, 11:13 AM
Madtown is right.

OX1947
02-21-2012, 01:44 PM
I think your thinking is flawed.

We let Wallace go, we are not going to save a bunch of cap space to sign another WR. That 1st round pick we sign will likely cost just as much (or more) as Wallace did last season. So that is a wash.

Sure we wont be spending $9million per on Wallace... which we don't have the space for anyway. If anything NOT signing Wallace only allows us to extend Brown next year. It does not suddenly clear cap space to sign other players. The nice thing about the 1st round pick is we get another talented player 4-5 years on the cheap. Thus allowing us to keep some of the players we have - like Brown. If we sign Wallace you can forget about Brown and probably a couple other guys.


We are approx $20million over the cap with Wallace not even on the books. So NOT keeping Wallace is not suddenly going to give us a bunch of $ to play with. It only means we don't have to cut even more people. You are nuts if you think we can let Wallace walk, then sign a top FA WR.

A mid first round or beyond reciever willl not cost a team 9 mil+. If someone wants to give the Steelers another first rounder for wallace, i am down for that. This draft is full of talent. Steelers could solve two major needs in one round and still have two book ends with brown and sanders. And you sign cotchery and ward is the 4th. Plus you have Health who Haley already hinted he likes a lot. If you give me a 15th overal pick for wallace, i would take it.

jiminpa
02-21-2012, 02:22 PM
I'm not convinced Wallace isn't done. I'm not convinced he is either. I hope that the FO takes a good hard look at the film on Wallace before considering anything with him. He was pretty much shut down for the second half of the season, and if it is because he has slowed down, even a little, he will not be worth the money he will get in the open market, and we would be foolish to sacrifice the cap space to pay that to him.

madtowndrunkard
02-21-2012, 02:27 PM
A mid first round or beyond reciever willl not cost a team 9 mil+. If someone wants to give the Steelers another first rounder for wallace, i am down for that. This draft is full of talent. Steelers could solve two major needs in one round and still have two book ends with brown and sanders. And you sign cotchery and ward is the 4th. Plus you have Health who Haley already hinted he likes a lot. If you give me a 15th overal pick for wallace, i would take it.

I didn't say a first round pick would cost us $9million. I said a 1st round pick would cost us more then Wallace did last year. Wallace is no longer counting against our cap. We are $20+million over the cap with out Wallace even under contract. Any $ we spend on a WR - whether we draft him or in FA - it will cost us more $ we dont have.

Point is we do not have a dime to spend on a top FA - wr now... or if some team gives up a 1st round pick to sign Wallace. If we want to keep Wallace we need to clear that amount of cap space - on top of the $20 or so million we are already over. ...plus next year forget about signing Brown and who ever else we might need to re-sign.

I hate to say this, but I think the smart - long term decision is to clear enough cap space to tender Wallace. Hope that someone else signs him and gives us their 1st round pick..... then try to extend Brown next season. Try to fill the loss of Wallace with Sanders... - resign Ward at a discount and try to keep Cotchery to play the slot. Then hope to land a WR in the draft - 2nd or 3rd rounder? Use those two first round draft picks wisely and I think we'll be ok.

I wouldn't mind having a stud RB. We really need help on the O-line. We desperately need an ILB to replace Farrior (because he's a goner) We really need someone to replace Hampton - cause he's also a goner. So really I can't think of anything we need more then another 1st round pick. We need to bite the bullet now - let wallace walk and lock up Brown. If we give Wallace that $ - we'll lose Brown and who ever we need to cut to get under the cap - plus we'll NOT have that 1st round pick.

To me it's a no brainer. Wallace has to go. Unless there is some cost savings idea I have not heard yet. The FO is already leaking info to get steeler fans prepared for what's to come. get ready to hear Ben really cry like a 2 year old.

Fastandfaster17
02-21-2012, 03:24 PM
"I hate to say this, but I think the smart - long term decision is to clear enough cap space to tender Wallace. Hope that someonelse signs him and gives us their 1st round pick..... then try to extend Brown next season. Try to fill the loss of Wallace with Sanders... - resign Ward at a discount and try to keep Cotchery to play the slot. Then hope to land a WR in the draft - 2nd or 3rd rounder? Use those two first round draft picks wisely and I think we'll be ok."
The problem will come if Sanders foot can't hold up, ward simply can't compete at a high level anymore and your left with Antonio Brown who is unproven as a #1 reciever and Cotchery with rookies and practice squad toys.

I know there are holes to fill other places, but I can't see the FO creating a hole at WR while trying to patch others, especially with Ben in his prime.

steeltheone
02-21-2012, 03:46 PM
There is not much difference from good to average wideouts in the NFL....The biggest difference is the quarterback...If Santonio Holmes was in Pittsburgh last year his numbers would have been much much better. He has Sanchez so his numbers were down.

What im saying is we can sign crotch and maybe another mid tier wideout and BR7 will inflate the numbers and we will be fine.

Steel Peon
02-21-2012, 04:26 PM
I hate to say this, but I think the smart - long term decision is to clear enough cap space to tender Wallace. Hope that someone else signs him and gives us their 1st round pick..... then try to extend Brown next season. Try to fill the loss of Wallace with Sanders... - resign Ward at a discount and try to keep Cotchery to play the slot. Then hope to land a WR in the draft - 2nd or 3rd rounder? Use those two first round draft picks wisely and I think we'll be ok.
I was saying at the end of the season that Wallace was not going to be a Steeler next year for a number of reasons.

1) We have no cap space.
2) We have no need for a one-trick-pony deep threat, who doesn't tackle, and we don't have a QB that can deliver it to him deep consistently.
3) We must secure Brown who is the true future for our receiving corps, and who IMO is a much better WR than Wallace.
4) Additionally, our OL is so shitty that Wallace rarely gets the time to break a big one.

Hell, even without Wallace, if we can't get it done with Brown, Sanders, Ward, Miller, and Cotchery, then we suck.

Curtain_of_Steel
02-21-2012, 04:42 PM
They certainly need to deal with Brown, but his value will certainly check down some if he isn't returning. But his value is strong when sitting next to another WR like Wallace who can pull double coverage his way. Its a double edged sword.

Wallace busted plenty, but with Bens health he was way off target the 2nd half of the year. He had him 5-8 times deep and missed him. I agree the Oline isn't helping, but we need a healthy Ben to solve that issue as well. If Ben can move around Wallace will break free further and Brown is that much more dangerous on his crossing patterns.

PhantomJB93
02-21-2012, 04:44 PM
I don't understand how we're going to have the money to sign a "top FA WR" if we can't sign Wallace, who is a "top FA WR"...

bac151rum
02-21-2012, 04:46 PM
Latest I saw, according to the rule of 51, even with assuming Wallace is tendered for a first rounder and all of our other RFAs are tendered averaging third round, we are about 15 million over the cap (per Steeler Depot, updated with Colon's restructure). Add another $6.7 to that if we franchise him.

Thats Hines, Hampton, Keomo, and Foote being cut with Wallace a restricted free agent. Throw in Farrior, Scott, and Aaron Smith to franchise him. Then we need to restructure around $10 mil out of Ben, Harrison, and whomever to get the money to sign any free agents, plus our draft picks and UDFA's, plus any replacements for any injured players.

Curtain_of_Steel
02-21-2012, 04:55 PM
With Colon's deal we should be at 21million reduced, leaving us about 4million over. I had a strand running here adding up what they saved on each deal from Taylors, I'll have to go find it.

We are not far from fixing this

steeltheone
02-21-2012, 05:53 PM
I don't understand how we're going to have the money to sign a "top FA WR" if we can't sign Wallace, who is a "top FA WR"...

We don't need a top FA wideout....Plenty of good mid tier available

finesward
02-21-2012, 08:12 PM
I didn't say a first round pick would cost us $9million. I said a 1st round pick would cost us more then Wallace did last year. Wallace is no longer counting against our cap. We are $20+million over the cap with out Wallace even under contract. Any $ we spend on a WR - whether we draft him or in FA - it will cost us more $ we dont have.

Point is we do not have a dime to spend on a top FA - wr now... or if some team gives up a 1st round pick to sign Wallace. If we want to keep Wallace we need to clear that amount of cap space - on top of the $20 or so million we are already over. ...plus next year forget about signing Brown and who ever else we might need to re-sign.

I hate to say this, but I think the smart - long term decision is to clear enough cap space to tender Wallace. Hope that someone else signs him and gives us their 1st round pick..... then try to extend Brown next season. Try to fill the loss of Wallace with Sanders... - resign Ward at a discount and try to keep Cotchery to play the slot. Then hope to land a WR in the draft - 2nd or 3rd rounder? Use those two first round draft picks wisely and I think we'll be ok.

I wouldn't mind having a stud RB. We really need help on the O-line. We desperately need an ILB to replace Farrior (because he's a goner) We really need someone to replace Hampton - cause he's also a goner. So really I can't think of anything we need more then another 1st round pick. We need to bite the bullet now - let wallace walk and lock up Brown. If we give Wallace that $ - we'll lose Brown and who ever we need to cut to get under the cap - plus we'll NOT have that 1st round pick.

To me it's a no brainer. Wallace has to go. Unless there is some cost savings idea I have not heard yet. The FO is already leaking info to get steeler fans prepared for what's to come. get ready to hear Ben really cry like a 2 year old.

Finally! Some actual thinking ahead going on and not pitchforks and torches marching towards the front office.

Brown is by far the more realistic WR for us to target. I want him to retire a steeler. :tt02: Wallace was a great pick for us. He will be fun to watch on another team, as long as that team isn't playing the steelers.

finesward
02-21-2012, 08:19 PM
They certainly need to deal with Brown, but his value will certainly check down some if he isn't returning. But his value is strong when sitting next to another WR like Wallace who can pull double coverage his way. Its a double edged sword.

Wallace busted plenty, but with Bens health he was way off target the 2nd half of the year. He had him 5-8 times deep and missed him. I agree the Oline isn't helping, but we need a healthy Ben to solve that issue as well. If Ben can move around Wallace will break free further and Brown is that much more dangerous on his crossing patterns.

Congrats on your 1k post :thumbsup:

Ben being healthy depends on his protection upfront. indeed a double edged sword. You keep wallace, but to do so you seal Ben's fate this year and slowly but surely cut his career short each year he is getting pummeled.

Ben did miss him a few times, but even when healthy he has struggled hitting him in stride. That's not an easy throw to make and really if we are looking at Ben's skillsets isn't high up on it.

Wallace going to a team like the saints or patriots would be scary b/c those guys can drop a pretty deep pass consistently.

But when were talking about our QB I think it makes sense to utilize his talents. And he can only extend plays and stay upright if he has enough time to let his shifty receivers get open. Sanders and Brown are great at running routes and should only improve with time. Ben can hit those timing patterns much better than throwing the deep ball. If you look at a lot of Wallace's TD's on long passes he is almost always adjusting or coming back to the ball. After a few years if your not on the same page as your WR it's not going to happen, injuries or not.

Dalarin
02-24-2012, 02:24 AM
I say if we lose Wallace we take that late first round pick and try to trade up as much as we believe is needed to grab Poe to have our d-line secure for the next 10 years. A 1st a 4rd round pick should do it. To save money and get the value picks we could trade our other first for later round picks.

Also, last time I checked we were about even with the salary cap after restructuring Ben's contract

Kingmagyar
02-24-2012, 05:32 PM
Poe will probably be there anyway for the Steelers. If they do trade up it would be for G David Decastro. Poe has some doubters out there about his work ethic and inconsistency.

If we don't sign Wallace use the money to lock up Antonio Brown he has identical numbers to Wallace and will be in the same exact situation Wallace and the Steelers are in this year.

I'll say if I have to make a choice I would let Wallace leave for a #1 draft pick. Get a guard, Decastro or Glenn for sure then take a receiver early like Michael Floyd in the first and then still sign another mid tier free agent WR as well. Next year I would have the money to give Antonio Brown a long term deal.

The real question during this whole Wallace saga should be simply,

Wallace or Brown?

lipps83
02-24-2012, 11:51 PM
The real question during this whole Wallace saga should be simply,

Wallace or Brown?

Brown.

Wallace is really fast and awesome....for the first 8 games of the season.

Mike Wallace proved Ladarius Webb to be right, that Wallace was not even the best receiver on his own team.

Next.

Dalarin
02-25-2012, 09:13 AM
Brown.

Wallace is really fast and awesome....for the first 8 games of the season.

Mike Wallace proved Ladarius Webb to be right, that Wallace was not even the best receiver on his own team.

Next.

Brown succeeded because Wallace ALWAYS draws help from a safety. Brown is a great receiver, but teams simply can't double cover two receivers every play. Opponents had to pick their poison, and most of the time that was Brown. A second thing to point out is that teams number one corners generally covered Wallace.

Brown is more clutch and will grind for that first down every time and that is why I prefer him but you can't simply judge by the numbers.

FrancoLambert
02-25-2012, 11:06 AM
Poe will probably be there anyway for the Steelers. If they do trade up it would be for G David Decastro. Poe has some doubters out there about his work ethic and inconsistency.

If we don't sign Wallace use the money to lock up Antonio Brown he has identical numbers to Wallace and will be in the same exact situation Wallace and the Steelers are in this year.

I'll say if I have to make a choice I would let Wallace leave for a #1 draft pick. Get a guard, Decastro or Glenn for sure then take a receiver early like Michael Floyd in the first and then still sign another mid tier free agent WR as well. Next year I would have the money to give Antonio Brown a long term deal.

The real question during this whole Wallace saga should be simply,

Wallace or Brown?

BROWN !!!!

NT - Poe in the first round?

Hope not.

O-line should be our first round pick. Period.

VTsteel
02-25-2012, 12:24 PM
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

We know what we have in Wallace (a good, fast, young receiver) - We never know for sure if that next draftee is going to be the next Troy Edwards or Limas Sweed.

No way in hell do I endorse taking the risk of letting Wallace be offered a tender by another team.

Kingmagyar
02-26-2012, 02:54 PM
I don't think New England would overpay Wallace to the extreme especially with signing Wes Welker still at hand, therefore Wallace would go to the highest offer which may come from San Francisco or Chicago who is desperate for a guy like Wallace. Chicago picks 19th which puts us in the area to trade up a few for G Decastro and then take a WR with our 24th pick.

Saw some fast big WRs watching the combine today. Kendall Wright or Stephen Hill anyone?