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View Full Version : What is the TRUE VALUE of Mike Wallace?


tony hipchest
02-23-2012, 12:58 AM
Of course, as fans, we all have our own opinions of how much he is worth. Some might say he is the difference of winning a superbowl, or not making the playoffs. either could be true.

But take emotion out of it, and we can examine the true market value in todays climate.

the franchise tag says any WR who may be slapped with it is worth $9.4 million per year. Does that mean that if 5 wr's are tagged they are suddenly worth as much as the average salaries of fitzgerald, calvin and andrae johnson?

hardly. the number is an arbitrary one impacted by no salary cap increase last season plus the inflation of larry fitzgeralds astronomical $20+ million salary.

last year the franchise tag was worth $11 mil. does that mean they are now worth less? of course not. they are now probably worth more than ever (especially when the tv money kicks in and the salary cap skyrockets.)

wallace has a skill set that easilly places him equal to the likes of steve smith, reggie wayne, miles austin, and greg jennings.

i would even place him above them. he is almost as hard to defend as calvin, andrae and fitzgerald.

http://www.numeroten.com/top10/sports/files/top-10-highest-paid-wide-receivers-in-the-nfl-2011.html

his agent will point out that they are all working on older contracts, and wallace isnt a top 10 pick like them. he will not be penalized for signing his second contract 2 years earlier than they, nor will he be penalized for signing after a labor dispute when the salary cap is frozen. none of that impacts his value or proven and potential production. anyone who signs him now is getting the additional bonus of 2 years of youth (which makes a huge contract like larry fitzgeralds even easier to dish out.

people think teams will be unwilling to give up a 1st round pick AND pay the low price of 9.4mil per season. this is because teams historically have been reluctant to give up so much in a trade for an older player. wallace is young and proven pro bowler who can hang with any top wr in the leage.

if he were in the april draft i say he would be atleast the # 2 wr selected and with his youth and being proven commodity, is easilly worth 2 1st round picks, and then some. he is easilly worth more than carson palmer, right? i'd say he is worth about as much as what the falcons gave up last year for julio jones (who i dont think will ever match wallace's career production).

i dont think we will be able to keep him long term, but he is most certainly worth the franchise tag price. if we cant do it, it may be akin to the patriots dumping richard seymore. it still hurts them to this day, but where they suffered on defense, they have made up on offense, and still made it back to the SB. hopefully we can do the same.

Bayz101
02-23-2012, 01:04 AM
He;s definitely worth the FT, I mean, who else is going to get it? I'm not sure he'd be happy with it, though, but I can't imagine he'd pout to much, it's 9 Million +. I think if their in any danger of losing him, they'll tag him. 9 Million isn't cheap, especially with our Cap issues, but if it comes down to that, I think that's what's going to happen.

tony hipchest
02-23-2012, 01:29 AM
if it comes down to that, i still dont think he is protected. i can think of several teams who should jump all over that deal, by not only matching it , but surpassing it.

they wont be any worse for the wear, either by giving up a single draft selection, or any deal they may offer (despite what so many steeler fans want to believe).

Bayz101
02-23-2012, 01:32 AM
if it comes down to that, i still dont think he is protected. i can think of several teams who should jump all over that deal, by not only matching it , but surpassing it.

they wont be any worse for the wear, either by giving up a single draft selection, or any deal they may offer (despite what so many steeler fans want to believe).

Wait a minute, matching the franchise tag? Isn't the FT something that's placed on a player without their input on the matter? I thought it was something that teams couldn't try and match, because it's an immediate contract.

Bayz101
02-23-2012, 01:47 AM
I'm not trying to be an ass or anything, just not very informed on the rules of the Franchise Tag.

tony hipchest
02-23-2012, 01:52 AM
Wait a minute, matching the franchise tag? Isn't the FT something that's placed on a player without their input on the matter? I thought it was something that teams couldn't try and match, because it's an immediate contract.i kinda mixed franchise with the tender and exclusive vs non exclusive.

mix that with the new CBA rules and i believe he is not 100% protected under any circumstances.

so many things have changed since last season, im not willing to stake MOP or MACH!'s reputation on it. :noidea:

i wanna say the exclusive rights tag is gone as part of negotiations, but i could be wrong. i boycotted the NFL during the entire lockout, so admittedly still may have a bit of catching up to do.

ricardisimo
02-23-2012, 03:31 AM
Pretty sure you're correct. Steelers have the right to match, and that's about it.

MasterOfPuppets
02-23-2012, 04:01 AM
i kinda mixed franchise with the tender and exclusive vs non exclusive.

mix that with the new CBA rules and i believe he is not 100% protected under any circumstances.

so many things have changed since last season, im not willing to stake MOP or MACH!'s reputation on it. :noidea:

i wanna say the exclusive rights tag is gone as part of negotiations, but i could be wrong. i boycotted the NFL during the entire lockout, so admittedly still may have a bit of catching up to do.
nope... franchise tagged players are still off limits. the only thing different is the compensation formula.
The franchise tag numbers for 2012 also are significantly less than they have been in recent years. The tag used to pay the player the average of the five highest paid players at his position for that year. Under the new collective bargaining agreement, it now pays an average of the five highest paid players at his spot over the last five years, a clause that will cost players $2 million to $3 million, depending on position

i think they've done away with the "transition" tag.

Bayz101
02-23-2012, 04:10 AM
nope... franchise tagged players are still off limits. the only thing different is the compensation formula.


i think they've done away with the "transition" tag.

Upon further review (Sounding like an official now), MOP's right on both. Transition tag's seem to be gone, and the franchise tag is off-limits for other teams.

Rick5895
02-23-2012, 04:17 AM
If we franchise him and he signs it he is ours. If we tender him another could sign him to a offer sheet with the Steelers getting the right to match. If we don't match then we get the 1st round pick in return. I read that Kapinos has been tenderd so that means Sepulvada and his big contract will be gone, more cap savings.

Frankly I think we should franchise him, although i am back and forth on this. My reasoning for franchising him is WR with his speed and skill set don't come along all that often and even though i am a defensive guy and believe the defense needs to be great to win, in today's NFL it appears you need a high scoring O to compete anymore. We need to keep Wallace for this reason. Franchise him then sign him long term. The franchise tag helps with that. We can cut Ward and bring him back with a lesser contract if needed (that hurt to say) A.Smith will be gone and Big Snack as well (that hurt too, lol) as well as Foote or Farrior ( I would let Foote go, Farrior's intangibles are needed if we "gut" the D)
We absolutely can not let a division or conference rival snap up Wallace.
Another option would be to sign him to the franchise tag then trade him to the NFC (SF maybe) for the 1st round pic and maybe a bit more.
I am confident the Steelers FO will do what is best for this team right now. As I am sure there is a ot of hand wringing going on about who we need to release.

Ricco Suavez
02-23-2012, 07:46 AM
I firmly believe he is gone. I think the Steelers offer a fair contract and if someone outbids than the front office will consider matching offer. But if this gets too high (and I think it will) the Steelers will take the draft pick and move on. Just business in the NFL.

Fastandfaster17
02-23-2012, 08:01 AM
If you franchise tag a player in the current CBA, it will cost 2 first round picks and a matching or greater salary then the tag to get him away from the steelers.

Ricco Suavez
02-23-2012, 08:21 AM
If you franchise tag a player in the current CBA, it will cost 2 first round picks and a matching or greater salary then the tag to get him away from the steelers.

If that info is correct than if the Steelers franchise him it pretty much ends any talk of him leaving this year. Hell if someone wants to give up TWO first rd picks then I hope they get him.

Curtain_of_Steel
02-23-2012, 08:28 AM
Until the FO makes the cuts needed they can't tag anyone, anyway. We are still weeks away from the deadline to tag. I would assume the cuts will be occurring very soon.

If Wallace gets tagged, it doesnt mean his avg is going to 9.4million over the life. You can sign someone to an 8 year deal, signing bonus and roster bonues in the 1st 3 years that go over the life, back load the deal a bit to make the first 6 worth 6-7. Having money in hand on a lenghty deal is worth way more than non guarrantteed contracts.
even if you give him an 8 year 77 million. 10million upfront, roster bonus in 2012(5-7mill eneg to a signing bonus in 2013 since we will be 50million over the cap, lol). Salarys at 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10,10,10. That keeps your first 3 years between 6-9million. You push out cap money years out and eat a couple million a year later when the cap has climbed.
The first 2 years of the deal he gets upwards of 26million with salary and bonus's. We would need 5.5mill in cap space year 1. year 3, 4 and 5 he would get 23-24million.

I think all pro bonuses may not count on against the cap, certain things they can legitmately bonus up on performance.

Steelerindc
02-23-2012, 08:29 AM
I just read that you only get one first rd pick when you sign a franchised player, so this means that Mike is Gone one way or the other.

tony hipchest
02-23-2012, 08:39 AM
wallace is a 3 year player hitting free agency. he is a restricted free agent. RFA and UFA is the same difference of the steelers retaining exclusive rights vs non exclusive.

its confusing but that should clear it up some. theres different sets of rules for both. the idea behind it is to benefit a player who may have outplayed a rookie 5 year deal, yet to protect the team who has a late round pick who explodes. its the same deal with arian foster, who was an undrafted free agent, who is now one of the best backs in the league set to cash in big time. the texans are protected either to match or be compensated.

jtbsteeler
02-23-2012, 08:39 AM
I just read that you only get one first rd pick when you sign a franchised player, so this means that Mike is Gone one way or the other.


You didn't read that.

"Franchise" players garner 2 1st Round picks. This year and next. High tender players, which Mike will probably be, garner one 1st Round pick.

Steelerindc
02-23-2012, 09:57 AM
In past years, franchise tags were rarely used because of the high cost of signing another team's restricted free agent -- first- and third-round picks. Under the new CBA, the most a team can receive is a first-round pick.

Read more: Steelers speedy wide receiver Wallace to open up his options - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_783071.html#ixzz1nDlPekcv

Let me know if I misunderstood anything here.

pete74
02-23-2012, 10:46 AM
If that info is correct than if the Steelers franchise him it pretty much ends any talk of him leaving this year. Hell if someone wants to give up TWO first rd picks then I hope they get him.

you can franchise him then trade him like the Packers are thinking about doing with Flynn so they can get something out of it. the downfall for them is if nobody trades then there backup will be making alot more money then there starter

Rotorhead
02-23-2012, 10:54 AM
Steelersindc, you are misinterpreting that, it says RFA's, not franchised RFA's, get a first (got a first and third before). The FT was rarely used before because an unfranchised RFA would garner a 1st and 3rd, and now only garners a 1st. It says nothing about compensation for a FT'd player.

steeltheone
02-23-2012, 02:27 PM
if he were in the april draft i say he would be atleast the # 2 wr selected and with his youth and being proven commodity, is easilly worth 2 1st round picks, and then some.

Two number one's and then some, Really ? Wow.....

SH-Rock
02-23-2012, 11:11 PM
I don't think franchise tagging him is a good idea. Can't keep both Wallace and Brown next year if both need a contract.