PDA

View Full Version : A Case for Still


lloydwoodson
02-24-2012, 08:44 AM
I think that Devon Still would be an outstanding NFL NT. I hope he will be available at the 24th pick. While the defense is still among the best in the league it has been poor against the run in comparison to past years. I believe this is because Hampton used to be so great against the run. More than one player has said that Hampton is the best run-stopper in the league. The Steelers need a Devon Still to carry the torch. That position is crucial to defensive success. Still sheds blocks and gets in the backfield. He'd be great. If he is not there hopefully Cordy Glenn is available. I think one of these two players will be the first pick.

lloydwoodson
02-24-2012, 05:44 PM
Nobody biting on this one? Everyone wants Vontaze Burfict? LOL! If NT doesn't get patched in a hurry it doesn't matter who is at ILB because they are going to be blocked downfield anyways.

ricardisimo
02-25-2012, 08:51 PM
This, from Dulac at the PG:
Gerry Dulac: He is not a nose tackle, and I would be surprised if the Steelers would use a No. 1 pick on another defense end. A pure nose tackle, such as Memphis' Dontario Poe, most definitely. But after drafting Ziggy Hood and Cameron Heyward in two of the past three years, I don't think they're No. 1 pick will he used on Still.

Bayz101
02-25-2012, 08:56 PM
I hope the first pick is used to upgrade the offensive line.

kan_t
02-26-2012, 10:45 AM
I hope the first pick is used to upgrade the offensive line.
I have the same thinking at first. But the more I look at the draft, the more I think that the Steelers will use their first pick on Poe if he's available. With a good combine I don't think Glenn will be availabe and I just don't see any other OL player is worth a late first round pick.

The OL class is deep in this year draft. They may go to upgrade the OL in the second or third round.

lloydwoodson
02-26-2012, 10:31 PM
I agree that Still isn't the classic NT. He isn't going to be the big body that plugs lanes as well as a massive NT (even though he is 6'5 310 pounds with amazing agility and the frame to get stronger). I think with the way the NFL is going to the pass I think it might be beneficial to have a smaller NT who can get pressure in the pass rush and collapse the pocket. Still is bigger now than Jay Ratliff of the Cowboys and will get bigger and stronger. More penetration vs brute force. I don't see this pick happening but I think Still will be a good player and could play NT.

bac151rum
02-27-2012, 12:38 PM
I would think that right now, barring someone falling incredibly, the Steelers first pick will come from Poe, Hightower, or Glenn. Poe and Glenn had great combines. Have to see how fast Hightower can run, but if he puts up a low 4.6 then its even possible all three are gone by the time we pick.
And I don't believe Still will transition well to NT. If we wanted to go that road, we could kick Ziggy over.

Dalarin
03-15-2012, 01:09 AM
I hope the first pick is used to upgrade the offensive line.

You and me both, but I've been arguing Still's case for months now. The long and strong arms are some of the most important qualities in a lineman and he sure has them.

ShutDown24
03-15-2012, 03:56 AM
Still can play nose. Saying he can't is silly. Poe is more of a 34 end than Still is.

ricardisimo
03-15-2012, 05:01 AM
Still can play nose. Saying he can't is silly. Poe is more of a 34 end than Still is.
Where do you people come from? Look, I'm not even saying you're wrong (although you are, of course) but you shouldn't expect to come on a pro football site, contradict the sum total of accepted wisdom on a topic and not be called out on it.

So tell us: how is Poe more of a 3-4 end than Still?

ShutDown24
03-15-2012, 05:26 AM
Where do you people come from? Look, I'm not even saying you're wrong (although you are, of course) but you shouldn't expect to come on a pro football site, contradict the sum total of accepted wisdom on a topic and not be called out on it.

So tell us: how is Poe more of a 3-4 end than Still?

Where do I come from? Well, I joined this board sometime around 2006 and I reside in Irwin, Pennsylvania if that helps answer that particular question.

I also come from the standpoint of just watching the only Dontari Poe - Memphis film available online several times through last night.

Poe plays with very little leverage. At his height you need to get a hell of a lot lower than I've ever seen him manage if you want to play nose effectively. The prototypical nose tackle is under 6'2; if you are not under that height, you better be exceptional at making yourself as short as possible - Poe isn't. I'm not saying he can't turn into a productive nose tackle, but it's going to take a lot of coaching. Just because he's 350+ lbs doesn't make him the uber version of Casey Hampton. Still on the other hand consistently shows he can get under the opponents pads and hold a double team. Poe is much better playing sideline to sideline and getting penetration. Those skills are nice to have in the middle of a 34 front but they are not the necessary traits needed to be that Wilfork/Hampton/Ngata type player. Poe's skills lend themselves much more to playing end in a 34.

The "total sum of accepted wisdom" as you call it is more often than not wrong when it comes to player evaluation. Particularly on message boards.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-15-2012, 08:54 AM
Shutdown, I dont see a guy like Still at 6'5" 303lbs being a NT. Especially since most of the scouts and NFL writers like Pasquerelli, Tony Pauline, Mel Kiper and yes the local scribes like Dulac and Bouchette all say he is either a 5 technique or a 3 technique.

I think Hood, Heyward, Keisel and Al Woods are good depth at DE. Heck , I think McClendon can play DE for us too. Dont need to draft Still.

ShutDown24
03-15-2012, 05:13 PM
Shutdown, I dont see a guy like Still at 6'5" 303lbs being a NT. Especially since most of the scouts and NFL writers like Pasquerelli, Tony Pauline, Mel Kiper and yes the local scribes like Dulac and Bouchette all say he is either a 5 technique or a 3 technique.

I think Hood, Heyward, Keisel and Al Woods are good depth at DE. Heck , I think McClendon can play DE for us too. Dont need to draft Still.

Oh I'm not saying we should draft him, but to imply Dontari Poe can play nose tackle anymore effectively than Devon Still is insane, media-driven garbage. Poe ends up on the ground consistently when trying to handle a one on one run block. He gets blown way off the ball everytime he is double teamed.

Still is much better suited for 43DT or 34DE, but he could handle nose if asked of him. I really don't know if Poe could even play the position without a year or two of coaching.

If you're looking at Poe as a 34 nose he shouldn't even have a first round grade on your board. He's a huge man but has very little functional strength.

Dalarin
03-16-2012, 05:03 PM
Like I've said before Still reminds me a lot of Ratliff, fast, smart, and sure tackler. He would give us the inside pressure that we have needed for years to get to pocket quarterbacks like Brady and Rogers.

ShutDown24
03-16-2012, 11:39 PM
Has anyone who wants the Steelers to draft Poe even seen him play?

Dalarin
03-17-2012, 03:12 AM
Has anyone who wants the Steelers to draft Poe even seen him play?

Poe is very raw but has tremendous potential given proper coaching but he is definitely not a top 10 pick like most claim he is post-combine. I would take him if he fell to 24 though.

Bayz101
03-17-2012, 03:20 AM
I'd actually be shocked if he made it past 15, and surprised if he was their at 10. I didn't see him at the Combine, and i'd still be surprised if he's still there.

ShutDown24
03-17-2012, 07:37 AM
I'd actually be shocked if he made it past 15, and surprised if he was their at 10. I didn't see him at the Combine, and i'd still be surprised if he's still there.

Do you mean Still or Poe?

If you are referring to Poe, I totally agree with you. His stock is extremely high right now and only trending up.

ShutDown24
03-18-2012, 12:53 PM
Where do you people come from? Look, I'm not even saying you're wrong (although you are, of course) but you shouldn't expect to come on a pro football site, contradict the sum total of accepted wisdom on a topic and not be called out on it.

So tell us: how is Poe more of a 3-4 end than Still?

I guess my answer was sufficient?

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-19-2012, 05:10 PM
Oh I'm not saying we should draft him, but to imply Dontari Poe can play nose tackle anymore effectively than Devon Still is insane, media-driven garbage. Poe ends up on the ground consistently when trying to handle a one on one run block. He gets blown way off the ball everytime he is double teamed.

Still is much better suited for 43DT or 34DE, but he could handle nose if asked of him. I really don't know if Poe could even play the position without a year or two of coaching.

If you're looking at Poe as a 34 nose he shouldn't even have a first round grade on your board. He's a huge man but has very little functional strength.

Poe is that classic workout warrior for the combine setting that hasnt put the work on tape that you would like to see. Memphis played a 4-3 from what I remember, so the guy is gonna need a year of coaching at least to play zero. If he pans out at all. He is a gamble, but could pay off big time.

My point to this thread is that Devon Still is not best suited for NT, just as Ziggy Hood is not. So why draft another DE when you have Keisel, Hood, Heyward and Al Woods. Heck, Steve McClendon can play DE if needed too.

ShutDown24
03-19-2012, 06:55 PM
My point to this thread is that Devon Still is not best suited for NT, just as Ziggy Hood is not. So why draft another DE when you have Keisel, Hood, Heyward and Al Woods. Heck, Steve McClendon can play DE if needed too.

Yeah, I absolutely agree with all of that. This is probably a good opporunity to say I don't think McClendon gets enough credit. I definitely concur he could play end.

I agree that Poe is a workout warrior. But I don't want my team drafting workout warriors- I wan them drafting football players. I would select Chapman or Ta'amu in the first round before I'd take Poe there. He got pushed around at Memphis. 6'5 350 doesn't mean much to me if you don't have theskill to use it. There are some things that can't be coached.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-20-2012, 10:50 AM
Yeah, I absolutely agree with all of that. This is probably a good opporunity to say I don't think McClendon gets enough credit. I definitely concur he could play end.

I agree that Poe is a workout warrior. But I don't want my team drafting workout warriors- I wan them drafting football players. I would select Chapman or Ta'amu in the first round before I'd take Poe there. He got pushed around at Memphis. 6'5 350 doesn't mean much to me if you don't have theskill to use it. There are some things that can't be coached.

I think Poe was playing a one gap position and would take time to learn the NT position. He has worked hard in the weight room to get where he is, but the question will be if he has the motor on the field to develop.

I like the size, motor and strength of Ta'amu better than Chapman. Not sure if Chapman is gonna be around with our 2nd pick though, but the knee could scare some off.

ShutDown24
03-24-2012, 10:05 AM
I think Poe was playing a one gap position and would take time to learn the NT position. He has worked hard in the weight room to get where he is, but the question will be if he has the motor on the field to develop.

I like the size, motor and strength of Ta'amu better than Chapman. Not sure if Chapman is gonna be around with our 2nd pick though, but the knee could scare some off.

I think Chapman vs Ta'amu really varies depending on what you want out of the position. Ta'amu penetrates better and is much more versatile. With Chapman you're really getting a classic zero technique and nothing else past that. The reason I'd prefer Chapman is that for the Steelers scheme, I don't think Ta'amu will get much chance to use that penetration past first down. Hood, Keisel and especially Heyward should be on the line during passing downs over a nose tackle. With that being the case, I think Chapman is the better fit. He is the only defensive line prospect I saw in this years class who didn't lose ground routinely when facing a double team. The guy is a stud. He just holds his ground and you aren't going to move him - torn ACL or not. He doesn't offer anything in the way of pass rush, but neither has Casey Hampton for the last decade. I would be happy with either player but I think Chapman is still the best fit.