PDA

View Full Version : Well then Kick Michael Irvin out.............


60_MINUTES
03-02-2012, 12:05 AM
If Hines Ward is not a lock for the HOF then kick Mike Irvine out... for real guys look at their stats and overall at the everything.. Look at every damn thing across the board and tell me how in the hell any idiot could say Ward is not HOF WR...

Mike Irvin
750 Rec
11904 yards
65 TD's
3 SB

Playoff stats
87 rec
1315 yards
8 Tds

5 time probowl
3 SB champion
NO Superbowl MVPand lets not forget he played all his games for the most part with HOF QB Troy Aikman

Extras... Great Team leader.. with a great will to win...

Also Extras Busted for Coke off the field which is not what a HOF player should be about

Hines Ward
1000 rec
12083 yards
85 TDs
2 SB and one Runner up

Playoff stats
88 Rec
1181 yards
10 TDs

4 Time Probowl
2 Time Superbowl champion
Superbowl MVP ( which I guess means we couldnt have won it without him )and lets not forget he played many games in his time with guys like Kordell Stewart

Extras Great Team Leader. Great will to win

More extras the Best Blocking WR in the history of the game
Look at these stats and you tell me why in the world according to these stats Ward is not First ballot just like Irvin... Its plain and simple...numbers dont lie... look at whats in front of you and tell me what arguement you can come up with ????

I will at least say this.. if Irvin is First Ballot then Ward is at least a lock to get in sometime down the road.. but IMO if Irvin is HOF first Ballot with all his stats.. then I cant see why a guy like Ward who has better stats all the way through is not First Ballot

Irvin got one more SB... Ward got MVP and better numbers along with 250 more receptions and the title of best blocking WR the game ever saw... and again I point out Mike did it with Troy.. while Ward had to get it on a running team with many years of Kordell stewart and even guys like Kent Gram... lol give me a break man
Bottom line if Mike Irvin is HOF then Hines ward is a lock

you tell me looking above how you can say he is not... and dont give me this shit of how Irvin shouldnt be or whatever... It is what it is... Mike is HOF.. so why would Ward not be with better numbers all the way through???????????????

60_MINUTES
03-02-2012, 12:16 AM
Another thing I cant stand is people that keep bringing up Chris Carter or T.O or Moss... Guys this is the HOF... people Like Lynn Swann and Mike Irvin get in because they take their team to a new level and will them to victorys... They are team leaders who pick it up a notch in the Playoffs... In short they help win Superbowls...

Just like Hines Ward did


T.O spent his time ripping apart his teams on his way to its all about me me me... When T.O runs down the field and yells Im open Im open and he dont get the ball he quits and comes back to the huddle along wth Moss... When Hines Ward runs down the field and yells Im open Im open and he dont get the ball.. he then finds a SS and or ILB and hits him in the mouth as he springs his guy for a TD on the Way to another Superbowl Championship

Dont get me wrong I think Carter, Moss T.O are HOF guys off their Talent... but the reason guys like Irvin and Ward are HOF guys is because of what they do to help their team Win Superbowls... oh and by the way Hines has the stats to go along with everything else.. his stats are right up there with the big boys in a lot of categorys

Oh well I would love to see A Hines Hater.. or someone who really doesnt view him as HOF look at the numbers above and come up with a reason why he is not HOF compare to Irvin

6RingsAndCounting
03-02-2012, 12:17 AM
That's a great argument. I have to agree with you completely, you can't put one in without the other.

Also, look at who Hines had throwing to him his first half of his career... That's just a testiment to his stats

StainlessStill
03-02-2012, 12:44 AM
Also, look at who Hines had throwing to him his first half of his career... That's just a testiment to his stats

I always think of that as well. The very sub-par QB's that Hines has played with throughout his glorious career and for 6 seasons before Roethlisberger just goes to show the consistency and player Hines really was. He adjusted to schemes, offensive coordinators and a bunch of ill-talent at the QB position throughout some seasons, but yet, found a way to work around that and be the teams best possession receiver to go with a dominating and beheading style of blocking. Hines could of played with anyone and made them look good. An all round football player by definition. Glad I could watch his best years in the Black & Gold.

6RingsAndCounting
03-02-2012, 02:30 AM
I always think of that as well. The very sub-par QB's that Hines has played with throughout his glorious career and for 6 seasons before Roethlisberger just goes to show the consistency and player Hines really was. He adjusted to schemes, offensive coordinators and a bunch of ill-talent at the QB position throughout some seasons, but yet, found a way to work around that and be the teams best possession receiver to go with a dominating and beheading style of blocking. Hines could of played with anyone and made them look good. An all round football player by definition. Glad I could watch his best years in the Black & Gold.

The old saying is true for Hines. The one that "I would take 11 of him on the field all the time." They say it a lot, but it is especially true for him, if he would have been 70 pounds thicker, he would have been the best linemen in the game.

60_MINUTES
03-02-2012, 08:15 AM
The old saying is true for Hines. The one that "I would take 11 of him on the field all the time." They say it a lot, but it is especially true for him, if he would have been 70 pounds thicker, he would have been the best linemen in the game.


Funny stuff... but very true

kan_t
03-02-2012, 09:07 AM
He may need to wait for a few years. But he is going to get in. He may not be viewed as the best WR in the league. But winning two SBs, a SB MVP and being the best blocking WR will separate him from other WRs with similar stats.

I'm not worry about him chance.

MDSteel15
03-02-2012, 09:49 AM
Wait wait wait wait a minute! I totally agree that Hines is HOF, BUT when you say he's on a run first team and CokeHead Irvin had Troy, let's not forget they had an O-line from Heaven that saved their asses and Emmitt Smith! Without that O-line, none of those turds are in the HOF. That team was run first and that line was ridiculous...

Brought to you by Hines for Prez 2016!

Pentheon
03-02-2012, 02:47 PM
Perfect argument, beats him in pretty much every category and always had a better QB throwing to him. Can't argue with this thread at all, I agree 100%

MasterOfPuppets
03-02-2012, 03:03 PM
one important stat you guys are forgetting while trying to compare stats....

.....................games........................ .............................games started
ward..............217............................. .....................................190
irvin................159.......................... ........................................147

difference......58 games..........43 starts.
so thats damn near 3 3/4 seasons of playing ward has on irvin. naturally his stats should be higher ....:noidea:

Bayz101
03-02-2012, 03:03 PM
The only thing that could really argue this is Irvin's playoff yardage, but Ward's touchdown's mattered more. Good summary.

MasterOfPuppets
03-02-2012, 03:14 PM
The only thing that could really argue this is Irvin's playoff yardage, but Ward's touchdown's mattered more. Good summary.
so 3 extra years to pad your stats isn't worth arguing ?
ok then. poe benched 225 lbs 44 times ...i did it 88 times but it took me 10 sets ....:chuckle: does this mean i'm twice as strong as poe ?

Bayz101
03-02-2012, 03:21 PM
so 3 extra years to pad your stats isn't worth arguing ?
ok then. poe benched 225 lbs 44 times ...i did it 88 times but it took me 10 sets ....:chuckle: does this mean i'm twice as strong as poe ?

Well, it really comes down to playoff's. That's what I was speaking of. How many playoff's game did Irvin play in as opposed to Ward? I was under the impression that Irvin played an even amount of time for someone to have made this thread :chuckle:

This messes everything up :banging:

Bayz101
03-02-2012, 03:22 PM
Yeah...Irvin played eleven years in the league, Ward 14. I still think Ward deserves in, but this argument doesn't really factor in.

Fire Arians
03-02-2012, 03:23 PM
irvin doesn't do this

yfM6VLqh95M

Bayz101
03-02-2012, 03:28 PM
True that. Ward's definitely his own kind of receiver, and that's what makes him special. Big, strong receivers like Andre and Calvin Johnson get open and make catches because of their size and strength. Ward got open and made catches because he's smart. That's a hall of fame trait if there ever was one.

StainlessStill
03-02-2012, 03:34 PM
Yeah...Irvin played eleven years in the league, Ward 14. I still think Ward deserves in, but this argument doesn't really factor in.

What helps Hines in this Irvin debate is Irvin played with a dynasty football team that went onto win 4 Super Bowls with a Hall of Fame offensive line that helped out his Hall of Fame quarterback which made his Hall of Fame running back become more dependable. Also, being Dallas is a dome-team, Irvin had the privilege to play 8 games a year in perfect weather conditions, which I'm sure helped his overall ability on a fast track.

Even so, factoring all of that in, Hines has played with virtually every other different style QB you can think of and still put up the numbers consistently throughout his whole career.

The HUGE difference will be his ability to run-block. Not only is Hines phenomenal company in the WR ranks (Super Bowl MVP, 1,000 receptions, 12,000 yards, etc) he was also a big contributor for guys like Jerome Bettis, Willie Parker and Rashard Mendenhall.

The complete football player. That's what will separate Hines. He'll get in eventually. He earned it with my eyeball test.

MDSteel15
03-02-2012, 04:18 PM
one important stat you guys are forgetting while trying to compare stats....

.....................games........................ .............................games started
ward..............217............................. .....................................190
irvin................159.......................... ........................................147

difference......58 games..........43 starts.
so thats damn near 3 3/4 seasons of playing ward has on irvin. naturally his stats should be higher ....:noidea:

Wasn't Irvin suspended for drugs?

Bayz101
03-02-2012, 04:20 PM
Wasn't Irvin suspended for drugs?

I know he was arrested for possession in 2005, not sure if he was suspended for it in his career, though.

MasterOfPuppets
03-02-2012, 04:26 PM
Wasn't Irvin suspended for drugs?
5 games in 96

Bayz101
03-02-2012, 04:27 PM
5 games in 96

Yep, and busted in '05 with possession. Druggy.

MDSteel15
03-02-2012, 04:39 PM
What helps Hines in this Irvin debate is Irvin played with a dynasty football team that went onto win 4 Super Bowls with a Hall of Fame offensive line that helped out his Hall of Fame quarterback which made his Hall of Fame running back become more dependable. Also, being Dallas is a dome-team, Irvin had the privilege to play 8 games a year in perfect weather conditions, which I'm sure helped his overall ability on a fast track.

Even so, factoring all of that in, Hines has played with virtually every other different style QB you can think of and still put up the numbers consistently throughout his whole career.

The HUGE difference will be his ability to run-block. Not only is Hines phenomenal company in the WR ranks (Super Bowl MVP, 1,000 receptions, 12,000 yards, etc) he was also a big contributor for guys like Jerome Bettis, Willie Parker and Rashard Mendenhall.

The complete football player. That's what will separate Hines. He'll get in eventually. He earned it with my eyeball test.

3 Super bowls... Lets not push it! :chuckle:

FrancoLambert
03-02-2012, 06:25 PM
Nice comparison!
Very thought provoking. 2 excellent receivers. Both gamers and team players to the max.
Though, off the field there is no comparison.
Hines by a nose. I think the Super Bowl MVP does it.

stb_steeler
03-02-2012, 06:33 PM
5 games in 96

Wasnt he also suspended for snorting up the 50 yardline? :flap:

zsheik22
03-03-2012, 11:35 AM
Superbowl mvp is a little misleading. Ben didn't play well and Hines best catch was thrown by a wr . Aikman and or smith not winning the mvp would be the real shocker.

BKAnthem
03-03-2012, 11:52 AM
one important stat you guys are forgetting while trying to compare stats....

.....................games........................ .............................games started
ward..............217............................. .....................................190
irvin................159.......................... ........................................147

difference......58 games..........43 starts.
so thats damn near 3 3/4 seasons of playing ward has on irvin. naturally his stats should be higher ....:noidea:

So that fact that Ward was more durable should be held against him? he played 12 years Ward 14....

MasterOfPuppets
03-03-2012, 03:21 PM
So that fact that Ward was more durable should be held against him? he played 12 years Ward 14....
nope and thats not the point at all... these guys are pointing at wards higher statistical numbers to try to prove a point. i'm just pointing out that ward had to play a lot more games to beat irvins numbers. had ward only played the same number of games as irvin , he wouldn't have the better stats.
here's one stat ward didn't win...

receiving yard per game.....
ward .....55.7 rank 83rd
irvin........74.9 rank 8th

if you wanna compare wards stats to make his case, the better comparison would be art monk.

Bayz101
03-03-2012, 03:51 PM
Two different players, two different dynasties. There's no doubt in my mind that both Irvin and Ward are deserving of the hall of fame.

Curtain_of_Steel
03-03-2012, 04:55 PM
How can that argument lose? Plus add in the consecutive games with a catch he had going. Shcking we couldnt have given him one there considering the 20 plus dinkers we gave him in thelast 5 games, lol

Steelers need to back that argument in their advertisements for Hines and the PB nod when the time comes. Thats if they started backing their players again, lol.

but if Irvin is in, than Hines should be in as well. Plus Irvins track record of issues still didn't hurt him. Hines with exception of his drinking issue one night, has been pretty dam clean.

dbsfgyd1
03-03-2012, 07:10 PM
As a Steeler fan, you will get no argument from me that Hines should be a first ballot invitee. One thing guys, remember, this is a Hall of Fame we are talking about, not a Hall of Statistical Relevence...... Face it,, Hines played in the Burgh. It's hard to spread fame to the rest of the nation from this outpost.

60_MINUTES
03-05-2012, 08:20 PM
nope and thats not the point at all... these guys are pointing at wards higher statistical numbers to try to prove a point. i'm just pointing out that ward had to play a lot more games to beat irvins numbers. had ward only played the same number of games as irvin , he wouldn't have the better stats.
here's one stat ward didn't win...

receiving yard per game.....
ward .....55.7 rank 83rd
irvin........74.9 rank 8th

if you wanna compare wards stats to make his case, the better comparison would be art monk.



No Ward and Irvin as pretty much the perfert comparrison... Every stat I laid out has them on the money.. except Ward off field is better ( much Better ) and Ward is the best Blocker in History ) I love it when guys point to years ( so Rice is not better then T.O or Carter cause rice played 20 years ) lol give me a break... playing more years at a high level is part of being great.. but anyway if you take that stuff out and just look at the playoff numbers... Ward and Irin when it counts the most ( their numbers are just about dead on.. Irvin got a few more yards in those games but really ( Aikman throwing you the ball ) Ward got Korky and Touchdown Tommy for some of those years ) Come on man you can look at it any way you want bottom line is Ward and Irvins Numbers are so close its scary Ward got the MVP with 2 Superbowls and Irvin got 3 Superbowls... Ward got 250 more catches

You say Ward played in 58 more games I think?? so basically 3 years. or 3 and half... Irvin got about 80 catches a year ( I didnt look this up but I would say its close ) so add the 240 catches and he is still even with Ward there...

Bottom line man the Numbers are close you can pick this or that here and there... and every time you do I can bring up korky...or Hines Run Blocking. Or Irvins Coke head... either Way you post it they put Irvin in First Ballot... so if thats the case then Ward is at least a lock to go in... If you dont think he is a HOF player ( hands down HOF player then you have mental problems...)

60_MINUTES
03-05-2012, 08:32 PM
Well, it really comes down to playoff's. That's what I was speaking of. How many playoff's game did Irvin play in as opposed to Ward? I was under the impression that Irvin played an even amount of time for someone to have made this thread :chuckle:

This messes everything up :banging:


No Bayz dont worry you are okay with your first statement.. nothing is messed up.... Playoff numbers

Irvin

87 rec
1315 yards
8 TDs

Ward
88 rec
1181 yards
10 TDs

Oh Oh but wait your wanting to know if the numbers are a lie based on how many games are played right????

Uh yeah well Irvin played in one more game then Ward...lol GEE what do you think now?yeah Yeah I know Irvin got 100 more yards or so... but come on man Kordell throwing intstead of Aikman... really If these numbers arent as close to on the money then I dont know what is.. like I said If Irivin is First Ballot HOF then at the very least Hines is a lock to go in