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LayingTheWoodley56
03-11-2012, 06:07 PM
Is all of the talk of one our pressing needs being at inside lineback an indication that the coaches do not regard Sylvester as a player that can start in the future? Obviously it's difficult for us as fans to know the full story since we have only seen glimpses of him since he's been on the team. From what I've seen, he seems active on special teams and his one start this year (against NE for Farrior) was as a part of perhaps our finest effort of the season. He must be missing something, however, if he is not mentioned as a candidate for the classic Steeler in-house replacement for a departing veteran. At any rate, whether or not we draft a young ILB, can we expect to see a Foote/Sylvester platoon next to Timmons this season, or something else?

Steelersfan87
03-11-2012, 06:51 PM
Is all of the talk of one our pressing needs being at inside lineback an indication that the coaches do not regard Sylvester as a player that can start in the future?

Yeah.

Steeldude
03-12-2012, 02:48 AM
I really don't want to see Foote starting. I was happy the day he left and dreaded the day they re-signed him

MasterOfPuppets
03-12-2012, 02:53 AM
I really don't want to see Foote starting. I was happy the day he left and dreaded the day they re-signed him
indeed...:drink:

MasterOfPuppets
03-12-2012, 03:14 AM
Is all of the talk of one our pressing needs being at inside lineback an indication that the coaches do not regard Sylvester as a player that can start in the future?
jeebus dude...:doh: ....did you not hear Mikey T ? "the steelers don't have backups...they have starters in waiting" .....
it's a steeler tradition to keep "starters in waiting" on the roster, feed the fans BS about how pleased they are with their progress , until the waiting period is over and its time for them to "step up"...then they cut em... (ala tony hills):hatsoff:

wyn50
03-12-2012, 03:22 AM
He will start.....soon. Foote is a short term player.

60_MINUTES
03-12-2012, 07:08 AM
I really don't want to see Foote starting. I was happy the day he left and dreaded the day they re-signed him



yep:drink:

BKAnthem
03-12-2012, 08:12 AM
Well if Sylvester is not the Answer then in 2010 Colbert wasted 3 picks on LB when he didn't really need to, and could have started the OL rebuilding process sooner and more robustly than just taking 1 center

Heinz Hitman
03-12-2012, 10:45 AM
I always heard that the coaching staff was really high on him his rookie season. Maybe he got lazy this past season? I know the few times I have seen him I was impressed. I would love to see him starting. I guess if we go with Hightower in the first round then we will have our answer then.

Kingmagyar
03-12-2012, 11:14 AM
Well if Sylvester is not the Answer then in 2010 Colbert wasted 3 picks on LB when he didn't really need to, and could have started the OL rebuilding process sooner and more robustly than just taking 1 center

Yeah that could end up being very bad. Worilds wasn't even considered a 2nd round pick and raised some eyebrows. Sylvester looked awesome at Utah but here hasn't shown it.

What worried me about Sylvester and Worilds is they did not dominate in the preseason last year. When you see a guy has something they usually dominate those preseason games. If they're having trouble against 3rd stringers?

tanda10506
03-12-2012, 01:22 PM
Worilds did good this year, looks like he's ready to fill the role when Harrison goes. You got to be realistic about young backups, they are just that, they need more experience to become great players and when Worilds got some this year he did very well. I thought Carter did okay in place of Woodley, but we didn't see him enough to really get a good opinion, and we saw even less of Sylvester.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-12-2012, 02:00 PM
Worilds did good this year, looks like he's ready to fill the role when Harrison goes. You got to be realistic about young backups, they are just that, they need more experience to become great players and when Worilds got some this year he did very well. I thought Carter did okay in place of Woodley, but we didn't see him enough to really get a good opinion, and we saw even less of Sylvester.

I really wasnt impressed by Worlids. He tried to run around blocks a lot instead of taking on the blocker. I think Carter looks more explosive and will turn out to be a better OLB than Worilds.

As for Sylvester. He's a day 2 project that plays tall and might be a better OLB than ILB. I think he is purely special teams and backup in case of emergency. A cheaper Keyaron Fox.

Sharkissle29
03-12-2012, 02:06 PM
Worilds did good this year, looks like he's ready to fill the role when Harrison goes. You got to be realistic about young backups, they are just that, they need more experience to become great players and when Worilds got some this year he did very well. I thought Carter did okay in place of Woodley, but we didn't see him enough to really get a good opinion, and we saw even less of Sylvester.

+1

Although the sacks may not have been there, the pressure was. I still have hopes for him as he is still young.

ETL
03-12-2012, 06:18 PM
That's an awful lot of money to pay a non-starter in Foote

Cpitt78
03-13-2012, 11:14 AM
Guys, this may come as a shocker but there are 31 other teams out there and our string of good fortune at a high level may be coming to an end for a while. That is just the way it is. You can't always find gems via later rounds and undrafted free agents. The front office is good but they are not miracle workers.

We are aging. We don't reach. We may find a few gems like Antonio Brown and Mike Wallace, but certain positions are harder to fill. Big guys that have an above average mental capacity, hit hard, and run fast are not as easy to find as receivers.

One other thing we may be overlooking here is leadership at the position to help guide talent along. Hines Ward was that for many years. Jerome Bettis was that for many years. I am not sure we have many of those leaders, if any, left on this roster, that will take a young player under their wing and mentor them.

Chad-

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-13-2012, 11:26 AM
Guys, this may come as a shocker but there are 31 other teams out there and our string of good fortune at a high level may be coming to an end for a while. That is just the way it is. You can't always find gems via later rounds and undrafted free agents. The front office is good but they are not miracle workers.

We are aging. We don't reach. We may find a few gems like Antonio Brown and Mike Wallace, but certain positions are harder to fill. Big guys that have an above average mental capacity, hit hard, and run fast are not as easy to find as receivers.

One other thing we may be overlooking here is leadership at the position to help guide talent along. Hines Ward was that for many years. Jerome Bettis was that for many years. I am not sure we have many of those leaders, if any, left on this roster, that will take a young player under their wing and mentor them.

Chad-

Trai Essex (3rd), Bruce Davis (3rd), Tony Hills (4th), Sepulvada (4th), Spaeth(3rd), Troy Edwards, Scott Sheilds, Alonzo Jackson, Willie Reid, Mathias Nkwenti.....were all reaches. I think we will see that Jason Worilds was a reach too.

Ben, Woodley, Clark, Pouncey and others will all show leadership, its just changing of some talent at positons, not the end of the world.

Again, I am intrigued by James Michael Johnson LB-Nevada, Tank Carder ILB -TCU and Jerry Franklin LB-Arkansas in the 3rd, if a LB is not addressed earlier. I think they can all be improvements at ILB on Foote and Sylvester.

Steelersfan87
03-15-2012, 08:43 PM
Just because a draft pick didn't work out does not mean it was a reach. Let us also not forget that there was no offseason last year, which is highly detrimental to the growth of young players adjusting to complex schemes.

steeltheone
03-15-2012, 09:38 PM
Just because a draft pick didn't work out does not mean it was a reach. Let us also not forget that there was no offseason last year, which is highly detrimental to the growth of young players adjusting to complex schemes. Which was a big benefit to a vet Steelers team.

Dalarin
03-16-2012, 05:41 PM
I really wasnt impressed by Worlids. He tried to run around blocks a lot instead of taking on the blocker. I think Carter looks more explosive and will turn out to be a better OLB than Worilds.

As for Sylvester. He's a day 2 project that plays tall and might be a better OLB than ILB. I think he is purely special teams and backup in case of emergency. A cheaper Keyaron Fox.

Key was the most intense special teams player I have ever seen and I thought he would be Harrison's successor but he was ready to step up and Harrison is still on his game. Sad but true nature of this team and the NFL as a whole. Why is it that you believe he can't play? Do you get to sit and watch team practices week in and week out? He has played maybe a total of 50 downs in the NFL, and that is over the span of 2 years. He needs consistent play time to gauge his ability. Give the guy a shot and quit flagging promising players as a bust before you see what they are capable of.

Dalarin
03-16-2012, 05:50 PM
And to add to the second statement on your last post Jackson I would like to throw Keisel's name into the mix. Great player, great attitude, and great work ethic. The kind of guy that can lead a team.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-16-2012, 07:41 PM
Just because a draft pick didn't work out does not mean it was a reach. Let us also not forget that there was no offseason last year, which is highly detrimental to the growth of young players adjusting to complex schemes.

Many of the draft experts had Trai Essex as a 5-6th round guy. A TE that converted to OT at Northwester that was taken in the 3rd.

Similar with Bruce Davis, who most thought that Cliff Avril was the better pass rusher and was available at that pick.

Mathias Nkwenti is another OT from Temple that the Steelers reached for when they saw that his short shuttle time was more like a TE than a OT..........so dont think the Steelers dont reach for talent at times too.

If you are referring to Worilds development, he was on the team, had gotten paid and hopefully should have been down with his teamates training at Orlando under Tom Shaw, using the money from his 2nd round contract. I understand rookies not developing as fast last year, but not 2nd year players.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-16-2012, 07:47 PM
Key was the most intense special teams player I have ever seen and I thought he would be Harrison's successor but he was ready to step up and Harrison is still on his game. Sad but true nature of this team and the NFL as a whole. Why is it that you believe he can't play? Do you get to sit and watch team practices week in and week out? He has played maybe a total of 50 downs in the NFL, and that is over the span of 2 years. He needs consistent play time to gauge his ability. Give the guy a shot and quit flagging promising players as a bust before you see what they are capable of.

Sylvester is a special teamer, I am fine with that. He still was not as good as Curtis Brown, Chidi Iwoma, Anthony Madison. I am not ready to plug him into the starting lineup, when he hasnt pushed Foote at all to be the prime backup. I watched him in 2 years of preseason, scouted him as a senior and he looks to play high, tall and a step behind the play...........exactly what I think of a 5th or 6th round talent.

I actually think his size and height lend him to being a better OLB for the Steelers. As you say, the kid has maybe 50 downs of playing time in him and you think he is ready to start at ILB for the Steelers and the Steelers do not need to draft an ILB.

Quit flagging every Steelers pick as a guy that has a shot to start this season and saying that we are fine at ILB with Foote and Sylvester when we are not.

Steelersfan87
03-17-2012, 09:30 AM
If you are referring to Worilds development, he was on the team, had gotten paid and hopefully should have been down with his teamates training at Orlando under Tom Shaw, using the money from his 2nd round contract. I understand rookies not developing as fast last year, but not 2nd year players.

Worilds was basically a one year starter converting to a new position at the next level. And how many Steelers do you think actually go down to Florida to train with Shaw? As far as I'm aware, it's mostly just the cornerbacks.

Worilds has shown more than potential in his first two seasons. He was hampered by lack of a true offseason and injuries, which stunted his potential growth, so we'll see where he is this year. We'll also see where Sylvester is as well.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-18-2012, 09:15 PM
Worilds was basically a one year starter converting to a new position at the next level. And how many Steelers do you think actually go down to Florida to train with Shaw? As far as I'm aware, it's mostly just the cornerbacks.

Worilds has shown more than potential in his first two seasons. He was hampered by lack of a true offseason and injuries, which stunted his potential growth, so we'll see where he is this year. We'll also see where Sylvester is as well.

Point is the true professionals went and trained in the offseason despite the NFL lockout. The lazy ones like Bryant McKinnie, Max Starks, etc went out and tried to eat themselves out of the NFL.

Worilds probably spent his own $ and trained. He still looked less impressive in his 2nd season than rookie Chris Carter did IMO.

Steelersfan87
03-18-2012, 09:37 PM
A lot of people have mentioned how impressed they were with Chris Carter. He did not impress me at all. He was way too small last year and didn't have nearly the success Worilds did in his limited playing time his rookie season. How about we just wait to see what happens instead of pretending that we can guess? James Harrison hasn't announced his retirement yet.

CA Black & Gold
03-18-2012, 09:45 PM
I really don't want to see Foote starting. I was happy the day he left and dreaded the day they re-signed him

We will never be successful with Foote at ILB. Dude is over the hill too, just like Farrior was. Can't believe we even brought him back.

tony hipchest
03-18-2012, 10:04 PM
Point is the true professionals went and trained in the offseason despite the NFL lockout. The lazy ones like Bryant McKinnie, Max Starks, etc went out and tried to eat themselves out of the NFL.

Worilds probably spent his own $ and trained. He still looked less impressive in his 2nd season than rookie Chris Carter did IMO.

A lot of people have mentioned how impressed they were with Chris Carter. He did not impress me at all. He was way too small last year and didn't have nearly the success Worilds did in his limited playing time his rookie season. How about we just wait to see what happens instead of pretending that we can guess? James Harrison hasn't announced his retirement yet.

the true travesty in all of this, is that we are still haunted by the release of thaddeus gibson (a decision we will live to regret for years to come) who is currently 1st Team All-Pro of the Wal Mart Shelf Stockers Association.

perhaps we can lure him out of his current lifes work.

either that, or draft someone to take farriors slot and have him compete with sylvester/foote.

Dalarin
03-19-2012, 12:38 AM
the true travesty in all of this, is that we are still haunted by the release of thaddeus gibson (a decision we will live to regret for years to come) who is currently 1st Team All-Pro of the Wal Mart Shelf Stockers Association.

perhaps we can lure him out of his current lifes work.

either that, or draft someone to take farriors slot and have him compete with sylvester/foote.

We had to get rid of Thad to make space because of o-line issues. Should have taken it as a sign

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-19-2012, 09:52 AM
A lot of people have mentioned how impressed they were with Chris Carter. He did not impress me at all. He was way too small last year and didn't have nearly the success Worilds did in his limited playing time his rookie season. How about we just wait to see what happens instead of pretending that we can guess? James Harrison hasn't announced his retirement yet.

No, Harrison has not announced his retirement, but the Steelers have been searching for his successor since the draft of Bruce Davis, then Thad Gibson, now Worilds and Carter.

Yes, Worids weighs 10lbs more than Carter, but Carter looks like a more fluid athlete and natural pass rusher. Worilds is still learning the position, but looked to be more of a liability in coverage and unable to get the corner on RT's, while Carter looked to have a much quicker first step. I hope they both turn out to be great for us, but Worilds looked to me to be having a slower learning curve.

Steelersfan87
03-19-2012, 11:55 AM
We will never be successful with Foote at ILB. Dude is over the hill too, just like Farrior was. Can't believe we even brought him back.

Totally bro, he's only started on both super bowl winning teams recently. No way the Steelers can win with him. Foote has played very well, with a few poor plays here and there, since he's returned.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-19-2012, 01:02 PM
Totally bro, he's only started on both super bowl winning teams recently. No way the Steelers can win with him. Foote has played very well, with a few poor plays here and there, since he's returned.

The Steelers let Foote walk in 2009 and then the Lions let him walk the following year because he wanted starter money and they were just going to use him as a backup.

Thinking he is the answer along side Timmons probably isnt what the Steelers are thinking. He may get a chance to start this season for a year while a rookie pick is prepared to start in 2013.

Or Stevenson Sylvester will become an all pro starter this season as many seem to be projecting.

Steelersfan87
03-19-2012, 03:17 PM
That was the entire point of bringing Foote back, so that he would start for a year or two while they acquired Farrior's long-term replacement. This is pretty much what everybody has been saying since he was re-signed.

I think that the ILB rotation hurt both Foot and Farrior last year. Foote played very well in 2010, but less-so overall last year. I think that he may play better overall as a full-time starter, especially with more stability around him, particularly amongst the linebackers, which was certainly not the case last year.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-19-2012, 03:44 PM
That was the entire point of bringing Foote back, so that he would start for a year or two while they acquired Farrior's long-term replacement. This is pretty much what everybody has been saying since he was re-signed.

I think that the ILB rotation hurt both Foot and Farrior last year. Foote played very well in 2010, but less-so overall last year. I think that he may play better overall as a full-time starter, especially with more stability around him, particularly amongst the linebackers, which was certainly not the case last year.

Larry Foote had 16 tackles in 2010, while not starting a game that season. But had 30 tackles in 5 starts in 2011.

I think most of us fans here know that he is an average LB, but not as good as he was 4 or 5 years ago. Not really thrilled with having an average to below average ILB starting this season, but that is what happens when you dont draft a decent successor.

Steelersfan87
03-19-2012, 04:24 PM
Allow me to quote an excerpt from an old post of mine:

Here's what Pro Football Focus had to say about Foote in the week 17 game recap against the Browns:

Larry Foote (+2.5) is some insurance policy for the Steelers; each time Foote has seen sustained action off the bench this season he’s come up with, at worst, a solid display. Foote spurned a starting role to return to Pittsburgh as a backup, and to have such a quality all-around defender as a backup is a rare treat. Foote graded positively in run defense, pass coverage and as a pass-rusher on Sunday, with the sack, hit and pressure being his strongest impact. Does Foote yet have a key role to play for the Steelers in the playoffs?

As a bonus, here's what they said after the Dolphins game:

Larry Foote (+2.9) was one of three Steeler inside linebackers to impress as Dick LeBeau‘s interior defense dominated the middle. All three Steelers’ ILB graded above +2.0 overall (James Farrior +3.1, Lawrence Timmons +2.4), but Foote’s grade on 18 snaps was particularly impressive. The RILB registered a sack and two pressures on only five blitzes. All three of his tackles were stops and in coverage he surrendered a solitary 5-yard reception. It was interesting (to say the least) to see Foote leave a starting role in Detroit to return to a backup role in Pittsburgh, but if he continues to put in spot performances like this, Steelers fans won’t be disappointed.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-19-2012, 04:42 PM
Allow me to quote an excerpt from an old post of mine:

How old was that post?? We didnt play the Dolphins in 2011.

And what is pro football focus? A blog that you operate??

Steelersfan87
03-19-2012, 05:17 PM
1) As I stated, I was talking about his play in 2010. He was a great asset in 2010, and those quotes are from the 2010 season. He didn't play as well last year, and I offered a reason for why that might have been.

2) Use google. I have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the site. It's one of those sites, along with Football Outsiders, that looks deeper into statistics than ESPN or NFL.com.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-19-2012, 06:07 PM
1) As I stated, I was talking about his play in 2010. He was a great asset in 2010, and those quotes are from the 2010 season. He didn't play as well last year, and I offered a reason for why that might have been.

2) Use google. I have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the site. It's one of those sites, along with Football Outsiders, that looks deeper into statistics than ESPN or NFL.com.

You are not by chance a poster that used to go by UltimateFanNetwork.......are you?? :toofunny:

Football Outsiders had Mewelde Moore ranked as the best RB in the NFL approx 4 years ago based on his DVOA. Guys with slide rules making up formulas to rank football players.............great.:banging:

Steelersfan87
03-19-2012, 07:07 PM
This is the only user name I've had on this forum, although I'd browsed it on and off for a couple years before I joined.

The rankings that these sites often give I usually ignore, but when they make actual commentaries, they are usually spot on. I'm not really a sabermetrics kind of guy.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-20-2012, 10:41 AM
After all this, I still dont think Larry Foote or Stevenson Sylvester are great starting options for the Steelers at ILB.

I think any other starting LB in our division or the AFC East is better than either. That list includes:

DQuell Jackson
Ray Lewis
Ray Maualuga
Jameel McLain
Brandon Spikes
Bart Scott
David Harris
Nick Barnett
Karlos Dansby

The only guys that I think Foote would be an upgrade over in those teams is Kelvin Burnett of the Dolphins and Kelvin Sheppard of the Bills. Steelers should not be accepting mediocrity at ILB.

Steelersfan87
03-20-2012, 02:30 PM
Uh, they don't really have a choice, bro.

Dalarin
03-20-2012, 08:30 PM
Uh, they don't really have a choice, bro.

Don't you know that the Mac is the most important position in football and must be filled with a first rounder?

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-20-2012, 10:09 PM
Uh, they don't really have a choice, bro.

Unless they draft somebody early. (I still dont think a rookie is going to start), or they pick up a free agent, (still unlikely)....you are correct. I just dont think having a mediocre ILB starting in Foote was good planning by the team.

Could have drafted Sean Lee, Brandon Spikes or Pat Angerer instead of Worilds and would have had a guy in place.

Curtain_of_Steel
03-20-2012, 10:11 PM
El, they couldve, but the FO choose to not listen to us, lol

Dalarin
03-20-2012, 10:27 PM
El, they couldve, but the FO choose to not listen to us, lol

But somehow we remain contenders. Don't jump ship if April doesn't turn out how you want it to. None of us can see through the master plan

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-20-2012, 11:45 PM
El, they couldve, but the FO choose to not listen to us, lol

I hear you Curtain. Its why I cant see how they dont address ILB in some way this offseason. Could be they troll for a vet at the end of Free Agency or they draft somebody with a 1st day pick.

DanRooney
03-21-2012, 12:32 AM
Dont'a Hightower.

Steelersfan87
03-21-2012, 12:41 AM
Yeah. I think it's pretty obvious to everybody that they're kind of banking on Hightower at this point. It's not like the past two drafts haven't been pretty much predestined with Maurkice Pouncey and Cameron Heyward. Did anybody not know what name was going to be read when the Steelers were up to bat?

DanRooney
03-21-2012, 12:52 AM
Yeah. I think it's pretty obvious to everybody that they're kind of banking on Hightower at this point. It's not like the past two drafts haven't been pretty much predestined with Maurkice Pouncey and Cameron Heyward. Did anybody not know what name was going to be read when the Steelers were up to bat?

2009. I was absolutely stunned when we drafted Ziggy Hood. I'm still kind of mad.

Steelersfan87
03-21-2012, 01:01 AM
I did specify the last two drafts.

Curtain_of_Steel
03-21-2012, 09:07 AM
I think the last 3 1's were good. Can't go back in hind sight. Ziggy has done a good job hgetting tossed in early with Smith's injuries.

Pouncey needs to get healthy and stay healthy. When he is healthy he obviously has played well.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-21-2012, 10:19 AM
Yeah. I think it's pretty obvious to everybody that they're kind of banking on Hightower at this point. It's not like the past two drafts haven't been pretty much predestined with Maurkice Pouncey and Cameron Heyward. Did anybody not know what name was going to be read when the Steelers were up to bat?

I actually thought last year that the Steelers would take a look at Derek Sherrod OT, when the pick was up. No problem with the Heyward pick though, as our DE's should be set for the next 4-5 yrs.