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View Full Version : William Gay Signs with Cardinals.


tony hipchest
03-20-2012, 12:46 AM
admit it... you all knew it was just a matter of time.

http://arizonasports.com/40/1516497/Cardinals-bring-DB-William-Gay-in-for-a-visit

Wallace108
03-20-2012, 01:10 AM
He's reportedly meeting with the Titans today (Tuesday).

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/03/report-william-gay-to-visit-titans-on-tuesday/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+SteelersDepotBlog+%28Steelers +Depot+Blog%29

tony hipchest
03-20-2012, 01:19 AM
if he wants to leave a classy organization such as the steelers for 2 classless organizations like that (AZ raids our roster and TN stomps our towels) then **** him and the twit he tweeted in on.

only a self loathing douchebag with no pride would reject vet minimum to play for the steelers and go play elsewhere for millions more.

:chuckle:

Fire Arians
03-20-2012, 01:55 AM
im surprised they didn't jump on farrior, ward, and smith yet lol

Steelersfan87
03-20-2012, 02:11 AM
I do hope the Steelers retain Gay. He could be the most valuable 4th or 5th CB in the league, and an amazing insurance policy.

ricardisimo
03-20-2012, 03:01 AM
I do hope the Steelers retain Gay. He could be the most valuable 4th or 5th CB in the league, and an amazing insurance policy.
:rolleyes:

steelermount
03-20-2012, 04:30 AM
Steelers west ....wasn't he the only steeler's player wearing all red at the super bowl parade ... The year we beat them ?

Steelersfan87
03-20-2012, 04:32 AM
I don't understand your reaction at all. If it's coming from an opponent of bringing Gay back, then I have nothing to say. If you take offense with my suggestion that he would be a 4th or 5th cornerback, I don't mean that as an attack on his abilities. It's just the reality that the Steelers have drafted young corners that have potential and are likely ready to play this year. Keenan Lewis almost certainly will be starting this year opposite Taylor, while Curtis Brown and Cortez Allen will be given every opportunity to compete for the nickel spot.

Rick5895
03-20-2012, 05:26 AM
I liked the way gay played last season, however, Lewis should be ready to compete for a starting spot although I see Brown or Allen starting. Best to let Gay go rather than pay him the money he may command from another organization.

ricardisimo
03-20-2012, 05:28 AM
More Gay-bashing, that's all. You think he's earned some respect, then you see him being automatically demoted to "fourth or fifth" string, in favor of two draftees who have yet to do anything in this league. I'd love to see Allen and Brown become dominant forces, but it has to happen first.

IamTheSteelGod
03-20-2012, 06:37 AM
im surprised they didn't jump on farrior, ward, and smith yet lol

Ha ha ha, I was waiting for that! Gay is too good to let go, damn cap!

Steel_Bus_24
03-20-2012, 06:49 AM
if he wants to leave a classy organization such as the steelers for 2 classless organizations like that (AZ raids our roster and TN stomps our towels) then **** him and the twit he tweeted in on.

only a self loathing douchebag with no pride would reject vet minimum to play for the steelers and go play elsewhere for millions more.

:chuckle:

yep, what a greedy bastard

:doh:..at Steeler Fans around here lately

Lokki
03-20-2012, 07:18 AM
Where does this rank on the Gay Meter?

TRH
03-20-2012, 07:22 AM
the Cardinals should be banned from talking to any of our players or coaches. Their should be a maximum amount of people you can talk to from one organization. GO find some players elsewhere.

Curtain_of_Steel
03-20-2012, 07:50 AM
Gay played well last year, but come on guys, you know we all hold our breathe on pass plays in his direction. Hell, I was holding my breathe on pass plays to Troy last year, especially after his big play with the bungholes...Just like when our kicker lines up for an extra point, we all hope he has the distance to make it, lol

Seems like we are willing to take a big chance on the 2 young guys that they can step in. Did they show much last year? Werent they hurt a good portion of the year when they were racin Sanders to the chow line and slipped on the jello?

ETL
03-20-2012, 08:11 AM
Where does this rank on the Gay Meter?

Gay Meter is -30 for this week for considering other teams to play for instead of the Steelers.

PhantomJB93
03-20-2012, 08:51 AM
If he goes somewhere else for more money, I won't blame him, but if the Steelers don't even make an offer or try to make room for him (it doesn't sound like they have but there's no way for us to know for sure), I will be pretty mad.

We kept using him all those years he sucked (I literally blame him for the entire 2009 season), keep giving him 2nd and 3rd chances to show he has something, resigned him to a new deal last offseason when he had done nothing to warrant it, and then he finally has a breakout year and grows into a capable starter and we immediately let him go? Just sounds like a lot of unnecessary headbanging for an end result of which we don't even get to reap the rewards. But, I guess that's just how the NFL works these days.

Curtain_of_Steel
03-20-2012, 09:15 AM
Cardinal can have whoever they want, has it helped them at all by signing our castoffs? Any signing?

Obviously whiz didn't learn a heck of a lot while here.

LayingTheWoodley56
03-20-2012, 09:29 AM
I've been saying since the end of last season that Gay should be brought back for another year or two at least. Lewis, Allen and Brown, while all have potential, have yet to shown anything real in this league. Gay on the other hand is coming off far and away is best season in which he was one a two-headed corner tandem that anchored the league's best pass D and showed flair in making a few big interceptions. Let's bring him back for at least one more year; I don't think him getting a long-term deal anywhere else.

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
03-20-2012, 09:59 AM
I would rather see Allen and Brown see more playtime then seeing Gay out there cause there going to be ballers not like Gay.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-20-2012, 10:46 AM
More Gay-bashing, that's all. You think he's earned some respect, then you see him being automatically demoted to "fourth or fifth" string, in favor of two draftees who have yet to do anything in this league. I'd love to see Allen and Brown become dominant forces, but it has to happen first.

I think it comes down to being up against the salary cap and being pleased with the trio of young guys behind him like Lewis, Brown and Allen. Would not be surprised at all to see another vet come in to camp for insurance later.

Still would like to see Donovan Warren in camp again too.

ben2hines=6
03-20-2012, 01:06 PM
Cardinals did the same damn thing to us with B Mac.... He sucked and they traded him back to us and he sucked some more.... Seriously guys two years ago he looked like the worst player in the NFL. I mean hell jordy nelson pointed his finger Right in Gays face multiple times on 3rd down in the Bowl then burned him on a route for a first. Yea he didnt look as awful last year but his year wasnt nowhere near good enough to warrant big or even middle of the line money... Hell i say be gone Gay-boy

Steelersfan87
03-20-2012, 02:43 PM
More Gay-bashing, that's all. You think he's earned some respect, then you see him being automatically demoted to "fourth or fifth" string, in favor of two draftees who have yet to do anything in this league. I'd love to see Allen and Brown become dominant forces, but it has to happen first.

That's not what I was saying at all. Gay proved last year that he could be reasonably relied upon as a nickel back, or even a starter, if necessary. But if you actually take a realistic view of the scenario and the organization's trajectory, it's pretty clear that William Gay is not in their future plans, and as it stands now, the core of their secondary going into the future is Keenan Lewis, Curtis Brown, and Cortez Allen, and they expect them to contribute sooner than later. Lewis has already been playing the outside corner spot in nickel packages, so chances are, he will be the full-time starter to begin the season. Gay might start the season as the nickel back, but I do believe that the organization desires to have Brown and/or Allen in the regular rotation as the season progresses. The reality is that with Carnell Lake, the Steelers are shifting to more man schemes, which is reflected in their more recent draft picks, while Gay's strength is more in the elaborate zone schemes.

In truth, what I would love to see happen would be to move Gay to safety. He could be the primary backup and play in certain nickel and dime situations, with the flexibility to play corner as well, and he, being 5 years younger than Ryan Clark, could be the immediate successor to the FS position and be a stopgap there before finding a more long-term solution.

steeltheone
03-20-2012, 05:04 PM
Gay played pretty good ball last year. The others are unkown. We might regret losing him.

Steelboy84
03-20-2012, 05:06 PM
:thumbsup: :applaudit: :tt04:

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-20-2012, 06:31 PM
The reality is that with Carnell Lake, the Steelers are shifting to more man schemes, which is reflected in their more recent draft picks, .

I think you have reality confused with fantasy.

Carnell Lake does not call the defense. Coach LeBeau does. Steelers still play a lot of off man coverage and zone. Gay was perfectly comfortable with off man coverage vs a press man coverage.

Gay will be overpaid in the open market and not too concerned that he moves on.

Steelersfan87
03-20-2012, 06:54 PM
I didn't say that Lake called the defensive schemes, but if you think he has not influenced them, then you're fooling yourself. Maybe you should track down some of the interviews that he's given since he's been signed where he talks about teaching the corners to play on the man more and more aggressively, which in turn influenced LeBeau's comfort level with scheming more man coverages, believing that they can now execute it.

tony hipchest
03-20-2012, 06:57 PM
I didn't say that Lake called the defensive schemes, but if you think he has not influenced them, then you're fooling yourself. Maybe you should track down some of the interviews that he's given since he's been signed where he talks about teaching the corners to play on the man more and more aggressively, which in turn influenced LeBeau's comfort level with scheming more man coverages, believing that they can now execute it. remember...

its your job to produce the evidence and back up your claim. :tap:

otherwise its not even worthy of consideration. gee i wonder who said THAT?

:chuckle:

Steelersfan87
03-20-2012, 07:16 PM
http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2011/12/6/2616901/up-close-and-personal-with-the-steelers-secondary-coach-carnell-lake

Lake: "Because we didn't have off-season workouts or training and coaching sessions with the guys, I couldn't do anything but watch film. I watched a lot of film. I figured out that we could do certain things better. Some things they were already doing well. I wanted to find people to put on the field that would be more aggressive. Sometimes if you are too aggressive you get burned. But I figured that if I could teach them the correctly and make the correct changes we would have some success. Hopefully it is paying off. I think so."

"Part of it is in response to the first question. It was just teaching him to be a little more aggressive. It's one thing to say 'you need to be more aggressive,' but how do you do that? We've been working on those things to get him in a position where he can make plays. He's not a big guy, but he can play aggressively and still use his size to help him make plays. So far it's working.

A big part of coaching a cornerback is giving them confidence in themselves that they can play. I was a strong safety my first six years under Bill Cowher. Ron Woodson went down, and I figured that they were going to put the other corner in, right? No.

Coach LeBeau said 'Carnell, you're in.' 'What? I've never played corner in my life. What are you talking about?'

That first game was against the Cincinnati Bengals, and they had an all-Pro receiver, Carl Pickens, on that team. Carl was running me up and down that field. I was sitting on the bench after the second quarter thinking 'I can't do this. What were they thinking about?' Bill Cowher came up to me and said 'Carnell, you have to have a short memory. Whatever you did in the past doesn't matter. Go out there and do something the next play.'

And you know what? Just that little statement let me say 'It's true—it can't get any worse than it is right now.' So that's what I've tried to pass on to Will."

To be continued...

Boy, that was tough! He also mentions how, unlike most position coaches, he got to put in his two cents when it came time to draft. It's rather obvious that Carnell Lake has had a significant impact on the secondary, not simply in the quality of play, or the style of play, but who's playing. He also talks about in that link how Keenan Lewis went up to him and asked him to help him out, and Lake questioned others in the organization why he wasn't playing. He took him under his wing and made sure he put him in a position to prove himself, and he did, in part, thanks to Lake. LeBeau calls more man schemes now because he CAN call more now, and he CAN more now because of Lake's impact, or what a lot of Steelers writers have already called the Lake Effect.

Lake worked with Gay, his teammates say, to study his tendencies and preferences. Gay wanted to be up on the line, handling receivers physically. the Steelers’ previous defensive backs coach, Ray Horton, now the defensive coordinator in Arizona, wanted Gay to stay back, as with all his corners. Lake cut him loose.

“I’m just playin’ my game, man,” Gay said.

LeBeau and the Steelers’ players praise Horton for his technique teaching, but they sound like they love Lake for adding that physical element. we saw it with Taylor, too, last week in chipping at Welker.

“Ray Horton was a great coach,” LeBeau said. “The reason we wanted to get Carnell was that I had personal experience with him here and knew he was a man of great character. I also knew he was an aggressive player and that he’d be an aggressive coach. I knew what he’d be asking our guys to do.”

http://onlinechannelnews.com/kovacevic-lake-is-steelers-first-half-mvp

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-20-2012, 10:03 PM
Nowhere in that dialog does it say anything about playing more "man coverage". To play more aggressively doesnt mean it has to be man coverage. It just means playing tighter to the man in your zone.

Watch the games, break down the defense and you will see a lot of zone predominantly. Just because a CB runs with a WR vertically it doesnt mean its man. It means the CB has responsibility for the deep 1/3 of the field. If the WR runs across the middle, he gets passed off to the LB in coverage.

You are confusing playing more aggressively with playing more man coverage.

Steelersfan87
03-20-2012, 10:26 PM
Are you contesting my claim that the Steelers played more man coverage last year than they have previously under Ray Horton? I never claimed that they were switching to a primarily man scheme, but simply that they were using it more, and frankly, it's really not hard to prove, since they used it more in the Patriots game alone than they have in like, the last 3 years combined. Go to Steelers.com and watch the videos of Carnell Lake talking about his new draft picks and why they were desired by the team because they wanted people that could play both man and zone. Lake also praised Lewis in training camp as the only DB on the roster that could consistently cover Wallace (which is not surprising, given that they grew up together). I don't need to pull up a quote of Lake explicitly saying "I am encouraging my DBs and LeBeau to play more man coverage" in order to demonstrate that Lake's contributions have in part led to them playing more man coverage, which they self-evidently did.

Also, you didn't click the links:

This season, though, Gay has been outstanding after a rough start in Indianapolis upon taking over for McFadden. His breakthrough was the primary reason LeBeau and Lake felt comfortable with switching to man-to-man coverage against Brady and the Patriots.

Here's more: http://www.steelersdepot.com/2011/11/lake-effect-obvious-in-pittsburgh/

Lewis credits Lake with his turn around and notes specifically the tips he has received from Lake in regards to how to improve his man coverage and bump skills. Lewis goes on to say that Lake is probably the best coach he had had in his entire life. That is certainly the type of words you want to hear from a kid that looked like he was not going to live up to his draft potential. To be honest, it was looking like Lewis was headed for the dreaded bust category. That has all changed now based on his play this year and Lake is the only new denominator.

tony hipchest
03-20-2012, 10:34 PM
I don't need to pull up a quote of Lake explicitly saying "I am encouraging my DBs and LeBeau to play more man coverage" in order to demonstrate that Lake's contributions have in part led to them playing more man coverage, which they self-evidently did.

]:nono:

isnt it fair that you be held to the same standards that you hold others to?

so YES you do need to pull up a quote or direct link, otherwise youre claims are "baseless".

Steelersfan87
03-20-2012, 10:39 PM
Stop antagonizing me. I have already more than proven that Lake has aided the team's ability to play man schemes. Just look at my above post.

1) Lake has improved the team's ability to play man coverage
2) The team has played more man coverage
therefore
3) Lake has contributed to the increase in man coverage that the team plays

tony hipchest
03-20-2012, 10:56 PM
my bad. i thought you enjoyed the antagonization game, almost as if it were a hobby.

lake was a great hire.

good observation. :thumbsup:

it looks like when lebeau retires we have his successor to call the plays.

Steelersfan87
03-20-2012, 11:05 PM
Actually, that would presumably be Keith Butler, especially after he decided not to leave this year. Most beat writers, like Ed Bouchette, speculate that he not only was again reaffirmed as the de factor successor to the defensive coordinator role, he may have even been given a specific date.

Curtain_of_Steel
03-20-2012, 11:06 PM
Crap Tony, I wanted to call the plays..

I still say that our def being #1 against the pass, is a huge scientific anomaly. Just one of those things like our lack of turnovers that can't be explained in 2011.

You can say it was Lake or God, or Satan, but it can't be explained. But obviously it didn't carry over to the Bronco game, right Ike?lol
.

Curtain_of_Steel
03-20-2012, 11:08 PM
He may have been given a specific date, but getting paid with 2 commas and 6 zeros with minimal pressure isn't all that bad either. Plus it gets hot in Arizona, who wants to go there a side from washed up Steelers.

Curtain_of_Steel
03-20-2012, 11:09 PM
Tony, you have 32,000 post, can you slow down so i can catch up a bit?LOL

Gonna put you on a quota per day, lol

Steelersfan87
03-20-2012, 11:18 PM
Crap Tony, I wanted to call the plays..

I still say that our def being #1 against the pass, is a huge scientific anomaly. Just one of those things like our lack of turnovers that can't be explained in 2011.

You can say it was Lake or God, or Satan, but it can't be explained. But obviously it didn't carry over to the Bronco game, right Ike?lol
.

How is it such a huge anomaly when the Steelers had the top pass defense in 2008 as well? That's only 3 seasons ago.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-20-2012, 11:56 PM
Are you contesting my claim that the Steelers played more man coverage last year than they have previously under Ray Horton?

You said the Steelers are switching to more man coverage. Yes, I contest that, as they still play primarily zone and off man coverage, but it depends on the situation.

Keenan Lewis played exclusively man to man coverage at Oregon State. When drafted 4 drafts ago, he had to learn how to play off man that the Steelers play and not just chase the same player.

Yes, vs the Patriots the Steelers played primarily press man and rushed Brady as a specific game plan to confuse the Patriots offense. Its because the Steelers play primarily zone defense and it is why Brady was confused.

First, the Steelers were in man coverage exclusively throughout the game, which is a stark contrast from their typical zone scheme

After the game, players on both sides noted Pittsburgh played more man than usual, but it wasn't apparent how often they stayed in that coverage. There were some zone elements on the inside, particularly with at least one safety and then occasionally from linebackers who didn't blitz. http://www.nesn.com/2011/11/film-breakdown-shows-tom-brady-was-thrown-off-by-steelers-man-coverage-disguised-blitz-schemes.html

Steelersfan87
03-21-2012, 12:36 AM
So you are of the belief that they did NOT play more man coverage last season than normal? That simply is not born out by observation at all. Simply by watching the games intently, it is obvious that they played more man than they probably ever had under Ray Horton. You are portraying my comment as suggesting that they are moving toward playing more man than zone, which is not what I'm saying at all. I'm simply saying that they have shifted from practically zero man coverage ever to occasionally employing it. As your quote notes, they often mixed in zone with man coverage, which further strengthens my argument. It's worth noting that the next line, which you fail to quote, is: "Other than that, it was all man all the time".

tony hipchest
03-21-2012, 01:17 AM
Actually, that would presumably be Keith Butler, especially after he decided not to leave this year. Most beat writers, like Ed Bouchette, speculate that he not only was again reaffirmed as the de factor successor to the defensive coordinator role, he may have even been given a specific date.very interesting...

does he influence a change in schemes, call plays, and make his own draft picks as well?

looks like we have 2 very capable DC candidates who are already showing dick lebeau how its done. it seems we are in very good hands when he is finally shown the door.

i am very happy for the steelers. :tt02:

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-21-2012, 10:09 AM
So you are of the belief that they did NOT play more man coverage last season than normal? That simply is not born out by observation at all. Simply by watching the games intently, it is obvious that they played more man than they probably ever had under Ray Horton. You are portraying my comment as suggesting that they are moving toward playing more man than zone, which is not what I'm saying at all. I'm simply saying that they have shifted from practically zero man coverage ever to occasionally employing it. As your quote notes, they often mixed in zone with man coverage, which further strengthens my argument. It's worth noting that the next line, which you fail to quote, is: "Other than that, it was all man all the time".

I am of the belief that the Steelers are not "shifting to more man schemes because Carnell Lake" now coaching the secondary. I believe that Dick Lebeau runs his defense the way he always has.

I think the Steelers played man against Brady, because he is so good at pre snap reading zones. The Steelers then tried to run more man after that, like vs Baltimore and got beaten.

You stated that the Steelers are shifting to more man coverage because of Lake, maybe that came out wrong and isnt exactly what you meant. I think they tried it vs the Pats, it worked and they tried it more.

Either way, I dont care if Will Gay leaves, we have CB's to replace him and I think he is really a nickel corner anyways. I said all season that he was doing a better job of not giving the WR a cushion than he had in the past, but he doesnt have the long speed and needed a Safety over the top to protect from that.

Steelersfan87
03-21-2012, 03:35 PM
I did not say it was because of Lake that the Steelers ran more man schemes no, but I did say that he contributed to them being able to do so. I think that LeBeau desired to do so, and hiring Lake may have been a part of that desire. That desire was also reflected in Lake's comments that I alluded to earlier about why they drafted Brown and Allen; namely that they could play both zone and man. And given that Lake also said that he had his say about who he liked in the draft, I would say that Lake's influence has been a contributing factor to the marginal evolution of the secondary.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-21-2012, 04:16 PM
Dick LeBeau is a Hall of Fame CB. His 62 INT's rank 3rd all time among NFL cornerbacks. He also coached the secondary in Green Bay and Cincinatti for approx 10 years. I think he knows a little bit about the position. :rolleyes:

If you want to think that Dick LeBeau could not design and coach a defense that could play man to man coverage until Carnell Lake was added to the coaching staff...........then go ahead. :bs:

Steelersfan87
03-21-2012, 04:23 PM
What the **** are you talking about? I suggested nothing of the sort. You're trying my patience now by putting words in my mouth.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-21-2012, 04:38 PM
What the **** are you talking about? I suggested nothing of the sort. You're trying my patience now by putting words in my mouth. Your quotes are in Italics.....

The reality is that with Carnell Lake, the Steelers are shifting to more man schemes, which is reflected in their more recent draft picks,

I did not say it was because of Lake that the Steelers ran more man schemes no, but I did say that he contributed to them being able to do so. I think that LeBeau desired to do so, and hiring Lake may have been a part of that desire


You have said that it is because of Lake that the Steelers are shifting to more man coverage.

You say that you think LeBeau desired to run more man coverage and hired Lake (a career safety who played maybe half a year of corner) in order to do so.

I maintain that if Dick LeBeau wanted to run more man coverage, that he didnt need to hire a former NFL safety to do so. He could have relied on his 50+ years of playing and coaching in the NFL to do so. You make it sound like Carnell Lake is running things and causing a Hall of Fame coach to change how he draws up defensive gameplans.

Curtain_of_Steel
03-21-2012, 04:58 PM
This discussion is still going on?LOL

I agree with El's last post, no way Lake is influencing Dicks play calls.

Maybe we just are not fastest enough mentalliy or physically or smart enough to play zone all the time,. I mean come on, we have watched some stupid ass coverages out there. Players loafing, ending our playoff season early. Players watching Green catch a TD and so on. Maybe Dick is just coaching down to the fools we have.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-21-2012, 05:22 PM
This discussion is still going on?LOL

I agree with El's last post, no way Lake is influencing Dicks play calls.

Maybe we just are not fastest enough mentalliy or physically or smart enough to play zone all the time,. I mean come on, we have watched some stupid ass coverages out there. Players loafing, ending our playoff season early. Players watching Green catch a TD and so on. Maybe Dick is just coaching down to the fools we have.

I think these defenses have always been predicated on pressure. When Harrison and Woodley were healthy, the secondary looks better because of the QB pressure. When there is limited pass rush...they get beat more.

Also, due to the drop off in play of Hampton, I think teams ran the ball better against us and didnt have to pass the football, which inflates statistics. Steelers have a young group at CB, but an athletic group, so I think we are OK going forward. Just need to get younger at Safety.

zcoop
03-21-2012, 05:58 PM
What the **** are you talking about? I suggested nothing of the sort. You're trying my patience now by putting words in my mouth.

I understand where you're coming from man. I'm sure Dick respects Carnell and does listen to his input into the process. I don't recall you stating the Dick didn't know what he was doing. Everybody knows that this is Dick's D, but he's a smart guy. And smart leaders rely on their staff to participate in their processes.

This ain't rocket science. So it is possible that Carnell influenced Dick to make some changes. C'est la vie.

casteeler
03-21-2012, 05:59 PM
Good riddance to bad rubbish

PhantomJB93
03-21-2012, 06:51 PM
Well he just tweeted "Done with all the visits now its time to decide where I'm going to play next year." IDK about you guys but that just makes it sound like he's playing somewhere else.

Steelersfan87
03-21-2012, 07:53 PM
Your quotes are in Italics.....

The reality is that with Carnell Lake, the Steelers are shifting to more man schemes, which is reflected in their more recent draft picks,

I did not say it was because of Lake that the Steelers ran more man schemes no, but I did say that he contributed to them being able to do so. I think that LeBeau desired to do so, and hiring Lake may have been a part of that desire


You have said that it is because of Lake that the Steelers are shifting to more man coverage.

You say that you think LeBeau desired to run more man coverage and hired Lake (a career safety who played maybe half a year of corner) in order to do so.

I maintain that if Dick LeBeau wanted to run more man coverage, that he didnt need to hire a former NFL safety to do so. He could have relied on his 50+ years of playing and coaching in the NFL to do so. You make it sound like Carnell Lake is running things and causing a Hall of Fame coach to change how he draws up defensive gameplans.

Wow, you lack reading comprehension even regarding things that you quote in your own post. I did not say "because of Lake" the Steelers are doing anything. I said "with Lake". I believe, especially after the Patriots game from the year prior, LeBeau desired even more to be able to run more aggressive coverages and more press coverages, but the problem was that he didn't have the personnel to do so, including Keenan Lewis who had yet to pan out, Joe Burnett who never amounted to anything, and Crezdon Butler who was a rookie and couldn't even earn his keep on special teams.

THIS part is merely my speculation, but I don't think that LeBeau was all that sorry to see Ray Horton go, or at least didn't mind too much once he discovered that his former player was available. If you go back to the Tribune article that I posted, it describes how regularly and consistently Horton trained his defensive backs to play off and play conservatively. Believe it or not, but players' primary coaches that they interact with are *shock* *awe* their position coaches. Why do you think the defensive linemen talk about and love John Mitchell so much? Why do you think the linebackers talk about and love Keith Butler so much? Why do you think the offensive linemen talk about and love Sean Kugler so much? Now, why do you think the defensive backs didn't really talk about Horton that way? Why is this the case now:

Mike Prisuta said that previously when you talked to Gay about something he did well, he would basically say "I'm just doing what Coach LeBeau says." This time, he said "I'm just doing what Coach Lake says." That says a lot about what respect the guys have for Lake in this short amount of time.

"Carnell's really done a great job," defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau said Thursday on the South Side. "Our secondary has played well. All you have to do is look at our pass numbers. Somebody's doing something right there."

"Coach Lake deserves a lot of credit," safety Ryan Clark said. "He's the guy who's had us prepared physically and mentally, who's given us the game plans. We have some good men in here, but he's the one that's put it together."

Again, you keep putting words in my mouth, evidently because you're mortally afraid that somebody might be insinuating something negative about the immortal and untouchable Dick LeBeau. That is not even close to the case. In fact, I consider this a compliment to LeBeau. He saw changes that he wanted to make, and he took steps, or assisted in taking steps, to initiate those changes, which involved getting a new secondary coach (serendipitiously timed with Horton packing up for Arizona) and some new young players that can do what he wanted (aka, NOT Bryant McFadden, Anthony Madison, and Gay/Lewis circa 2010):

"Ray Horton was a great coach," LeBeau said. "The reason we wanted to get Carnell was that I had personal experience with him here and knew he was a man of great character. I also knew he was an aggressive player and that he'd be an aggressive coach. I knew what he'd be asking our guys to do."

Here is what I'm NOT saying, since you're so very insane and confused, and I want you to stop putting words in my mouth. I am NOT saying that Carnell Lake convinced Dick LeBeau to play defense in a different way. I AM saying that LeBeau WANTED Lake because Lake's coaching of the defensive backs and his draft day player observations would help to build the personnel that he required to be able to call the defenses that he actually wanted to be able to call. LeBeau is the defensive coordinator, not the defensive backs coach. He needs the defensive backs coach that is going to train his defensive backs to be able to do what he would like them to do be able to do, and Lake helped him achieve that the same way that Mitchell and Butler help LeBeau be able to run the defense he wants to. Otherwise, you know, there would be no reason to have position coaches. Now let's put this to bed. There's no argument here, because you're arguing with claims I haven't made.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-21-2012, 08:19 PM
Here is what I'm NOT saying, since you're so very insane and confused, and I want you to stop putting words in my mouth. I am NOT saying that Carnell Lake convinced Dick LeBeau to play defense in a different way. I AM saying that LeBeau WANTED Lake because Lake's coaching of the defensive backs and his draft day player observations would help to build the personnel that he required to [I]be able to call the defenses that he actually wanted to be able to call.

Again, Dodo Guru.....I am neither insane nor confused. You believe that Dick LeBeau needed to get Carnell Lake to coach defensive backs and tell them who to draft.......in order to call the defenses that he actually wanted to be able to call.

That is exactly what you just wrote.

I think the notion that Dick Lebeau needed Lake , who was hired 2 weeks before the Texas Pro day and Citadel pro day last year, to advise him that he needed to draft Cortez Allen and Curtis Brown ...............is frankly absurd.

I think that Dick LeBeau knows what kind of players he needs to play CB for him, since he is a Hall of Fame corner himself. I also think LeBeau, Colbert and others would probably rely on the scouts that have been scouting college talent the entire NCAA season, instead of Carnell Lake who was coaching UCLA CB's just 2 weeks earlier.

Believe what you want, but before you go calling anybody confused or insane. You should probably go look in the mirror and reaffirm your bearings.

Curtain_of_Steel
03-21-2012, 08:57 PM
El, careful man, you might get the douchebag label soon, LOL Your walking on thin ice man.. lol

I agree on Lebeau probably has a bit of a clue on the quality of player he wants at CB. God knows from our opinions and help we have no clue, LOL No matter how much we try to force our views on Dick, he refuses ti listen, lol

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-21-2012, 09:18 PM
El, careful man, you might get the douchebag label soon, LOL Your walking on thin ice man.. lol

I agree on Lebeau probably has a bit of a clue on the quality of player he wants at CB. God knows from our opinions and help we have no clue, LOL No matter how much we try to force our views on Dick, he refuses ti listen, lol

Thanks for the warning about the ice.

I dont think Dick LeBeau wanted to hire Carnell Lake so he could run coverages that he could not run before or draft guys for his system.

Just like I dont think Bill Belichek hired Pepper Johnson as a LB coach in New England so that he could tell him what LB's to draft and so he could run blitzes that he could not without Pepper's input.

That is my opinion, but I must be insane and confused. :blah:

Steelersfan87
03-21-2012, 11:03 PM
Again, Dodo Guru.....I am neither insane nor confused. You believe that Dick LeBeau needed to get Carnell Lake to coach defensive backs and tell them who to draft.......in order to call the defenses that he actually wanted to be able to call.

That is exactly what you just wrote.

I think the notion that Dick Lebeau needed Lake , who was hired 2 weeks before the Texas Pro day and Citadel pro day last year, to advise him that he needed to draft Cortez Allen and Curtis Brown ...............is frankly absurd.

I think that Dick LeBeau knows what kind of players he needs to play CB for him, since he is a Hall of Fame corner himself. I also think LeBeau, Colbert and others would probably rely on the scouts that have been scouting college talent the entire NCAA season, instead of Carnell Lake who was coaching UCLA CB's just 2 weeks earlier.

Believe what you want, but before you go calling anybody confused or insane. You should probably go look in the mirror and reaffirm your bearings.

Look, I'm done with this. You keep creating bullshit instead of basing your arguments off of what I actually said. Or do you not understand the difference between "want" and "need"? Seriously, how can you QUOTE me with the accusation "that is exactly what you just wrote"....and ****ing get it wrong? That is unreasonably sad. Want and need are not synonyms. Dick LeBeau did not need to bring in Carnell Lake, nor did I claim, or even suggest, that he did. That you couldn't make the distinction between want and need is something that I can't even get my head around. Obviously the Steelers did not bring in Lake out of necessity. The only reason that it was even possible for him to have the opportunity to come in was because the previous defensive backs coach received a promotion in another organization.

You said that I believe LeBeau needed to get Carnell Lake to coach and tell them who to draft...I don't believe that. I never said that. I never implied that. That is why this is so exhausting. LeBeau, however, obviously WANTED Lake. I just quoted him above saying "we wanted to get Carnell". So yeah, that liked Lake and wanted to bring him in after Horton left.

LeBeau wanted Lake because he knew Lake could do what he NEEDED his defensive backs coach to do. Regardless of who the defensive backs coach was. Because, you know, coordinators rely on their skill position coaches to prepare their players. That's how coaching works, in case you were not aware of that. Any defensive coordinator that wants his defensive backs to play aggressive press coverage needs a defensive backs coach that teaches his defensive backs to play aggressive press coverage.

Horton was not doing that, presumably in part because he simply didn't have the personnel to do that, but also because he simply did not prefer the aggressive playing style that Lake obviously does. Could LeBeau have told Horton to coach that way? Of course. Is it possible that he did tell him that, and Horton couldn't, either because he wasn't good at it or because the players just weren't getting it? Yes.

Do you know why LeBeau liked Lake so much as a coach? It's because he emulates LeBeau's style (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_754445.html). Because he knew that Lake would be doing basically what he would be doing if he was the secondary coach. Because coordinators cannot watch prospect tape as much as position coaches can, and he knows that Lake sees what he sees. Like when Lake said this about Curtis Brown after they drafted him: "I think that's what we were looking for, I think that is one of the things that Dick LeBeau liked about him as well, is that he's just a solid cover corner". This is not really surprising considering Lake always had a reputation as a player, like Jack Ham, of being cerebral and being a tape hound.

Regarding the fact that you keep referencing the fact that I noted that Lake had some input on the draft, here is Lake in his own words:

Lake told us that on other teams the coaches don't necessarily get much, if any, input into who is drafted. "I know a lot of coaches in Green Bay. They just coach—they don't have any input in who comes in to play. You get what you get. Somebody else—the office, the scouting department, those are the people that do all the work to find the talent. Fortunately I was able to throw my two cents in, and together with the other coaches and the scouting department we chose two rookies this year. We got got very lucky."

Obviously Lake specifically was not hired to add his two cents to the draft. Whoever the Steelers hired would have had his two cents to put in, because that's how the Steelers scout. They rely heavily on their position coaches for feedback, even though it's not their pick to make. Obviously the fact that Lake is a young coach and a new coach who they wanted to give every chance to success likely influenced the Steelers drafting two defensive backs in the mid rounds of the draft as well, but it's reasonable to conclude, based on the videos of his press conferences about the two players, which I told you where to find them yet I doubt you watched them, that these are two players that BOTH he and LeBeau liked a fair bit and he was glad to get. Obviously it would have been "frankly absurd" if I said that " Dick Lebeau needed Lake...to advise him that he needed to draft Cortez Allen and Curtis Brown". But fortunately I didn't say that. Besides, it's not LeBeau's decision on who they pick either. Neither is it Tomlin's. Nor Colbert's. It's Rooney's decision, ultimately. How many more claims are you going to make for me? Maybe you can try to say that Lake is also coaching the linebackers, because he played linebacker in college.

LeBeau knows what kind of players he needs to play the scheme he wants. That doesn't mean that he had those players, or that if he did have those players, that their secondary coach properly coached them up. Once again, Dick LeBeau wanted Lake after Horton left because he knew that Lake could aid him in rebuilding the secondary that he envisioned for his defensive schemes. And that's exactly what Lake did. He did what LeBeau needed him to do to give LeBeau the players that he wanted. Just like the other assistant coaches do. By the way, the fact that LeBeau was a Hall of Fame CB doesn't qualify him as a great coach. The fact that he's a great coach is due to the fact that he's simply a great coach. And great coaches, like Tomlin, rely on their own coaches.

You don't even get your facts right. Lake coached UCLA in 2009. He did not coach anywhere officially in 2010. He also played cornerback more than just in the season in which Woodson tore his ACL.

I dont think Dick LeBeau wanted to hire Carnell Lake so he could run coverages that he could not run before or draft guys for his system.

I can't believe that you can read what I've written and come to the conclusion that this is what I was saying. You so misrepresent my arguments that it's infuriating. You apparently think that I think last year would have been impossible without Lake. Of course it would have, as long as LeBeau had a defensive backs coach that taught his players what LeBeau wanted them to learn and was as good of a coach as Lake is, based on the half dozen player and coach testimonials that I've already posted. LeBeau can't put in the same time that Lake can working with Gay and Lewis. Coordinators simply don't have that kind of time. It's amazing how little credit you give to position coaches, and it's unjust that you refuse to acknowledge the impact that Lake has had on the defense.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-22-2012, 07:44 AM
Sorry, dont have the time to wade thru all that.

I took what you are saying as that Dick Lebeau wanted a specific coach (Carnell Lake) so that he could run more man coverages. also, that we are shifting to more man coverages because of the addition of Carnell Lake. I think that is absurd, if that is what you are getting at.

Coaches hire guys they have coached because they will reinforce the philosophy that you originally coached into them. Especially the ones that were good at absorbing what the coach was saying and can be good communicators themselves. Not because they can do something that you dont teach or coach.

As for valuing position coaches. You could not be more wrong. I myself am an accredited youth football coach and have been for the past 20+years. I understand the heirarchy of an organization of coaches and what each does quite well.

micraydim
03-22-2012, 08:09 AM
admit it... you all knew it was just a matter of time.

http://arizonasports.com/40/1516497/Cardinals-bring-DB-William-Gay-in-for-a-visit

Yes . until now all shows that

Steelersfan87
03-22-2012, 01:10 PM
I took what you are saying as that Dick Lebeau wanted a specific coach (Carnell Lake) so that he could run more man coverages. also, that we are shifting to more man coverages because of the addition of Carnell Lake. I think that is absurd, if that is what you are getting at.

This is not what I said.

Coaches hire guys they have coached because they will reinforce the philosophy that you originally coached into them. Especially the ones that were good at absorbing what the coach was saying and can be good communicators themselves. Not because they can do something that you dont teach or coach.

This is what I said. Evidently you vastly misunderstood me.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-22-2012, 07:28 PM
You said that Lake's contributions lead to them playing more man coverage. I think that is a bit of a reach to think that a DB coach that didnt play a lot of man coverage himself, somehow coached up a group to play more man defense.

If the Steelers played more man coverage, its because they thought it matched up against offenses like the Patriots and Ravens, etc. Not because Carnell Lake can teach the secondary to play man better than Ray Horton did.

Steelersfan87
03-22-2012, 08:13 PM
Their new personnel and Lake's coaching gave LeBeau the option to use more man coverage. Don't you think they would have played more man against the Patriots the year before if they had the personnel and coaching?

OX1947
03-25-2012, 11:05 AM
Steelers are Gay no more, Gay signs with the Cardinals.

kan_t
03-25-2012, 11:20 AM
I'm confident that one of the young players (Lewis/Brown/Allen) can step up. Wish Gay the best with the Cardinals.

austinfrench76
03-25-2012, 11:23 AM
Didn't the Cardinals do this a few years ago by signing a very average Steeler corner (McFadden) only to give him back to us for a 5th rounder??? Good luck, Gay.

ShutDown24
03-25-2012, 11:24 AM
Gay Signs With Arizona

Posted by Mike Huff, March 25th 2012, 12:22 pm EST

William Gay is a Cardinal.

In a move that was forshadowed by Twitter, the ex-Steelers veteran has decided to sign on with Arizona in a move that should surprise no one.

......

http://pittsburghfootballreport.com/2012/03/25/william-gay-to-cardinals-2/

Darthslayrr
03-25-2012, 11:54 AM
Steeler fans rejoice there is no longer a scapegoat on blown coverage

steeltheone
03-25-2012, 12:09 PM
Steeler fans rejoice there is no longer a scapegoat on blown coverage

I think he will do fine...We may even miss him?

GMU Steeler
03-25-2012, 12:11 PM
I wish him luck. Another former Steeler signed by Arizona though. There's a shock.

Steelersfan87
03-25-2012, 12:23 PM
I think he will do fine...We may even miss him?

Indeed we may, though hopefully not. The Steelers do need another CB now. They typically carry 6, and now have 4. That guy everybody loved last year, Donovan Warren, seems to be on the Bears right now, so it certainly seems plausible that they draft at least one more CB. They could carry only 5 and have Da'Mon Cromartie-Smith (or possibly Myron Rolle) as the 5th safety/10th DB. I can't imagine them riding with Anthony Madison another year.

Millers the sh!t
03-25-2012, 12:23 PM
DAMN IT!!! I just went out and bought his jersey..........,,

Buddha Bus
03-25-2012, 01:57 PM
DAMN IT!!! I just went out and bought his jersey..........,,

Does this make you Gay when you wear it? :sofunny:

Steel Peon
03-25-2012, 03:18 PM
Keenan Lewis almost certainly will be starting this year opposite Taylor, while Curtis Brown and Cortez Allen will be given every opportunity to compete for the nickel spot.
Man, I sure hope we get some serious competition for starting CB from those other 2, because I don't feel Lewis is quite ready for primetime yet. I saw him make a couple'a great plays at the beginning of the season, but then later on saw him commit some real bonehead ones that kinda deflated my confidence. Maybe he'll get better, who knows?

Millers the sh!t
03-25-2012, 03:19 PM
Does this make you Gay when you wear it? :sofunny:



A man can dream, can't he?

FrancoLambert
03-25-2012, 03:40 PM
Good for him. Now let's see what Lewis, Brown, and Allen really have.
Time to play them, live with their growing pains, and see if they are the future.
Maybe jumbles our draft strategy a bit.

The Gay Meter......is there an NFC West version?

Bayz101
03-25-2012, 03:43 PM
Damn, that stung a little...

PhantomJB93
03-25-2012, 03:58 PM
Well, let's hope Allen or Lewis is finally ready to step up. I'm more optimistic about Allen I guess because Lewis seems to blow every opportunity he is given, but as long as one of these guys can be a competent starter I'll be happy. I'd be prepared for a significant drop-off in pass defense again though.

fred
03-25-2012, 04:18 PM
Are we surprised? AZ always waits to see which Free Agents from the Steelers they're gonna jump on......
.......Whiz still wishes he was Steelers coach..........

Bayz101
03-25-2012, 04:22 PM
Are we surprised? AZ always waits to see which Free Agents from the Steelers they're gonna jump on......
.......Whiz still wishes he was Steelers coach..........

I agree, also, 808 is Hawaii, right?

Steelersfan87
03-25-2012, 05:03 PM
Man, I sure hope we get some serious competition for starting CB from those other 2, because I don't feel Lewis is quite ready for primetime yet. I saw him make a couple'a great plays at the beginning of the season, but then later on saw him commit some real bonehead ones that kinda deflated my confidence. Maybe he'll get better, who knows?

Well, let's hope Allen or Lewis is finally ready to step up. I'm more optimistic about Allen I guess because Lewis seems to blow every opportunity he is given, but as long as one of these guys can be a competent starter I'll be happy. I'd be prepared for a significant drop-off in pass defense again though.

Man, I don't know what you guys are talking about. He's been playing the outside corner position all season because when they went to the nickel, Gay moved to the slot, so he's been sort of a starter all year, it's really not much of an adjustment. Of course he made some mistakes, but so did Ike, and so did Revis. I have full confidence in Lewis as the #2 CB. Does that mean fans aren't going to foam at the mouth every time somebody catches a pass near him? Of course not, but that's just what some people do. I only expect him to improve on last year with a full offseason of coaching from Carnell Lake as well. He seems to have overcome the mental hurdle, like in the Chiefs game, when he slipped and allowed a first down on the last drive, but a few plays later, sealed the game with his first career interception. I'm really liking the possibilities of the team's top 4 CBs, but they do need more numbers, period.

StainlessStill
03-25-2012, 05:11 PM
William Gay= Bryant McFadden cira 2009:toofunny:

For what it's worth, I'll NEVER forget Gay's fierce 1st pre-season performances in his rookie season. The dude played balls out and was all over the place. He defiantly stuck out. I liked him. My girl actually took a liking to him too, then he was overexposed as a "bad corner" in that HORRENDOUS defensive effort (from EVERYBODY) in 2009. In '10, he played better but I believe he had one helluva year last season in '11 so we're going to have to replace a solid starter/Nickel-Dime package player.

dbsfgyd1
03-25-2012, 05:56 PM
The FO is really high on Allen, and say he's the real deal. If Lewis has his program together, and indications are his season under Lake has been a positive development, we will be fine.

Steel95
03-25-2012, 06:01 PM
William Gay signs with Pittsburgh West? Oh, I meant the Arizona Cardinals, lol. Well, good for him, no big loss for the Steelers, they will miss his experience no doubt. But lets be realistic, the Steelers need an upgrade in the secondary. Lets give credit to Carnell Lake, he did an outstanding job last year with that corps of young DB's. I think the Steelers will draft two DB's in the later rounds of the draft. :tt03:

dbsfgyd1
03-25-2012, 06:12 PM
Could very well happen.

LVSteelersfan
03-25-2012, 06:51 PM
No big deal here. Never liked him. Easily replaceable.

Steel_Bus_24
03-25-2012, 07:25 PM
Really kinda sucks that we have to lose him when he finally gets to be an above mediocre player

As long as he isn't hurting us, best wishes to em though

Steelers are still in a decent position with our CBs.....Lewis,Brown, and Allen are all twice the physical specimens Gay is, they just need to gain the type of awareness and field smarts Gay learned.....and I feel more confident that that will happen now with Lake coaching em up

fujirama24
03-25-2012, 07:47 PM
This will probable be a good move for us. I have never been real high on this guy. He did improve last year but that isn't saying a whole lot. And since he started 15 games this season we should get a good comp pick out of him for the 2013 draft. Maybe as high as a 4th rounder. I'd take that any day.

El-Gonzo Jackson
03-25-2012, 07:56 PM
Keenan Lewis, Cortez Allen, Curtis Brown. Younger, better and less expensive.

I cant understand the fan base that gets upset when we dont sign a mediocre free agent........then cries the sky is falling when we are in cap hell and dont have the $$ to sign a guy like Wallace??:doh:

CA Black & Gold
03-25-2012, 08:16 PM
Hallelujah!!!!!!

ETL
03-25-2012, 09:33 PM
Gay Meter: at -100. If he is no longer wearing the black and gold, he is of no value to us ... (except when he is playing the Ravens, Bengals, Browns and the Pats)

TRH
03-25-2012, 09:48 PM
We don't have enough DB's as it is....

Steelersfan87
03-25-2012, 10:03 PM
Gay Meter: at -100. If he is no longer wearing the black and gold, he is of no value to us ... (except when he is playing the Ravens, Bengals, Browns and the Pats)

I personally hope that he has an excellent season, and not just because the better he does, the better compensatory pick the Steelers get. I think he will fare better with the Cardinals that McFadden did, because they have adopted a scheme now that is similar to the Steelers' after adding Ray Horton and Deshea Townsend to their coaching staff. I hope he gets to start along with Patrick Peterson and does well. He deserves it.

Rick5895
03-26-2012, 04:17 AM
I liked the way Willie played last season, but as the season wore on it became apparent to me that as well as he played Lewis surpassed him in ability. Anything that can get Allen and brown on the field more is a benefit. The only problem we have now at CB is Lewis is currently a RFA if I'm not mistaken, so we nest get him locked up or we will certainly lose him next season.
I wish Gay all the best, he came a long way with the Steelers and it's nice to see him capitalize on it, albeit with another team.

ETL
03-26-2012, 09:15 AM
i think if we miss Gay, it will be in the slot. he was good at quick reads and limiting the YAC. he was weak at covering the speed guy on the outside.

tunes4life
03-26-2012, 10:18 AM
meh :coffee:

stb_steeler
03-26-2012, 10:28 AM
Good riddance
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/AngelofthePhoenix/fez_ISaidGoodDay.png

Steelerfreak58
03-26-2012, 10:30 AM
He was a good CB did a great job for us last year. Steelers west has him now he won't do much there and he will miss the organization just like McFadden and Foote did. We have some good young guns to fill the spot.

casteeler
03-26-2012, 11:14 AM
Good riddance
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/AngelofthePhoenix/fez_ISaidGoodDay.png

Thank goodness, I was starting to think I was the only one who felt like that.

Fire Arians
03-26-2012, 11:29 AM
i think if we miss Gay, it will be in the slot. he was good at quick reads and limiting the YAC. he was weak at covering the speed guy on the outside.

curtis brown will be able to do what gay did, but even better. dude is quick and good at shadowing receivers

ike, lewis, allen, and brown should be a good 1-4.

would like to see if myron rolle can land a #5 spot

Lokki
03-26-2012, 12:19 PM
R.I.P. Gay Meter.

:tombstone

FanSince72
03-26-2012, 02:02 PM
What?
A Steeler player went to Arizona?

Jeez! How weird is THAT?

Fire Arians
03-26-2012, 02:15 PM
im surprised they haven't signed dennis dixon yet lol

SteelKid212
03-26-2012, 03:09 PM
thanks gay for all those years of pissing me off with your poor defending and horrid coverage, and making me hate you even more than i thought possible each time you would get smoked one on one.

yes thanks for all the "memories". NOT :coffee:

Steelersfan87
03-26-2012, 04:51 PM
I liked the way Willie played last season, but as the season wore on it became apparent to me that as well as he played Lewis surpassed him in ability. Anything that can get Allen and brown on the field more is a benefit. The only problem we have now at CB is Lewis is currently a RFA if I'm not mistaken, so we nest get him locked up or we will certainly lose him next season.
I wish Gay all the best, he came a long way with the Steelers and it's nice to see him capitalize on it, albeit with another team.

The interesting thing about Lewis is that he is childhood friends with Wallace. Their futures may be tied to one another. Maybe keeping Lewis around would be a notch in favor of the Steelers for Wallace's ultimate decision.

tony hipchest
03-26-2012, 05:22 PM
I personally hope that he has an excellent season, and not just because the better he does, the better compensatory pick the Steelers get. I think he will fare better with the Cardinals that McFadden did, because they have adopted a scheme now that is similar to the Steelers' after adding Ray Horton and Deshea Townsend to their coaching staff. I hope he gets to start along with Patrick Peterson and does well. He deserves it.i feel the same way as well. i aqlways thought he kinda got a raw deal with the fans and was made a scapegoat.

even ike taylor was a young cb benched by cowher in this system. fact of the matter is no cb's have really found success in the steelers system since rod woodson (including high round picks such as chard scott, choke cochlough, and mcfadden).

even though gay finally seemed to come into his own last season, fans still wanna run his ass out of town. i hope he continues a long career with the cards.

zcoop
03-26-2012, 05:49 PM
i feel the same way as well. i aqlways thought he kinda got a raw deal with the fans and was made a scapegoat.

even ike taylor was a young cb benched by cowher in this system. fact of the matter is no cb's have really found success in the steelers system since rod woodson (including high round picks such as chard scott, choke cochlough, and mcfadden).

even though gay finally seemed to come into his own last season, fans still wanna run his ass out of town. i hope he continues a long career with the cards.

Good point, it also puzzles me how guys are expected to excel at CB, yet they aren't here long enough to gel. That break in continuity with McFadden threw him and us out of sync on the D side of the ball.

Steelersfan87
03-26-2012, 10:48 PM
In fairness to McFadden, I think his first stint with the Steelers was above the line, right up through the super bowl run, even though he missed a lot of that season due to injury.

ricardisimo
03-27-2012, 03:41 AM
Damn.

tony hipchest
03-27-2012, 01:04 PM
i also agree with craig wolfley, who is one not elated to see gay leave-

http://craigwolfley.com/2012/03/big-play-william-gay/

Big Play William Gay

I know that there are a number of Steelers fans who will see the signing of William Gay by the Arizona Cardinals as a boost to the Steelers secondary. I am not among the number that believe that to be so, but i do know that there is a faction out there that really wasn’t fan-friendly to seeing #22 line up on Sundays.

Regardless of your take on his skill-set, this i do know, Pittsburgh is losing a good dude.

William is a survivvor, a man who has risen above the catastrophic loss of his murdered mother at a very young age. Raised by his grandmother, William is a testament to hard work, dedication to his education and profession, and the love of a grandmother who would not let William become a statistic.

Not content to bury the burden of that experience in the recesses of his noodle and just move forward, William has been proactive in the fight against domestic abuse violence and has spoken out on the issue. William has mentored other young men who suffered as he did, and the biggest plays of his career may well be in the rear-view mirror of life and the impact that he has had on others.

William caught my eye early on as a rookie. In his very first appearance in a Steelers uniform, at the Hall-of-Fame game in Canton 2007 against the New Orleans Saints, he intercepted a pass. I remember interviewing William after the game for the Steelers Radio Network. I came away very impressed with his composure, humble-yet confident tone and his innate ability to comprehend my jumbolaya mind-set.

In ’09 William got the starting role at corner opposite Ike Taylor after Bryant McFadden left for Arizona. To be candid, William struggled, as many young men do when they first become a 1-16 guy. Anybody worth his NFL salt can fill in short term as a starter, it’s so much more difficult to “Be the man” week-in/week-out over the course of 20-some games a season.

Yet during that entire season, William, who took much public guff, never hid or faded under the hot light of public scrutiny. He always carried himself well, and was a stand-up guy throughout.

Fast forward to Saint Vincent College of 2010, and on the first day of camp, as i was enjoying the 5-star smorgasboard that the Steelers enjoy in today’s NFL version of training camp, i came face-to-face with William.

I was intrigued after all the negative press in the off-season about Will and had been wondering how he would handle the demotion with B-Mac brought back from Arizona to take the starting job. Sportswriters were writing him off as if he was already gone. Fans had made their voice apparent throughout the draft and OTA’s and i was more than a little curious to see if he folded up like a tent, or would he stand his ground and battle back?

After saying hi to William, i went straight to the heart of the matter.

“Are you ready to fight for a spot, or are you just playing it out?” i asked as i shook his hand and looked him close in the eye.

He didn’t blink, didn’t act offended nor did he offer excuse. William didn’t bluster in bravado, or over-reach in his assessment of where he was in his career. William didn’t respond as so many do in his situation by denying the obvious either. He simply re-affirmed his commitment to contend for a role in the secondary with a determined look in his eye that let me know i was getting the true spirit of the man.

William Gay, a fighter, an over-comer, a man who has been in tough times before and knew his way around a set-back or two.

Against all odds, William made the team, fought his way back to playing time, and eventually worked his way into a Deshea Townsend-type role. And in true Steelers fashion, William served as a great role model for the young up and coming corners who sought his tutelage.

Somebody else will wear William’s #22 this year for the Steelers, but i for one, am gonna miss a young man who it has been my privilege to watch battle for his career, and do so with a sense of humility and class that is all too lacking in today’s NFL.

And for the more important battle of mentoring young men to become over-comers, “Big Play William Gay” is a super-star in my book.


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Fire Arians
03-27-2012, 01:26 PM
gay is a good #3-#4 corner, i would have preferred we kept him, but we can count him as a cap casualty.

but I am optimistic that lewis is a better option at #2 and that either cortez allen or curtis brown will step up and be a solid #3

such is life in the nfl, one person leaves, someone else steps up.

rcoplien
03-29-2012, 12:07 AM
I do hope the Steelers retain Gay. He could be the most valuable 4th or 5th CB in the league, and an amazing insurance policy.

Are you serious? He is one of the worst CB's I have ever seen. Blows coverage all the time and cost us atleast 4 games in the last 2 years! You are totally out to lunch.
This is the BEST NEWS I have seen all year!! Thank god the Gay is gone!! Now lets get some good CB's that won't blow coverage and actually cover tightly!!

Bayz101
03-29-2012, 12:12 AM
Are you serious? He is one of the worst CB's I have ever seen. Blows coverage all the time and cost us atleast 4 games in the last 2 years! You are totally out to lunch.
This is the BEST NEWS I have seen all year!! Thank god the Gay is gone!! Now lets get some good CB's that won't blow coverage and actually cover tightly!!

Settle down, lol. He's a far cry better than McFadden was and he's improved a lot since '09. We seen that disaster of a year.

tony hipchest
03-29-2012, 01:14 AM
Are you serious? He is one of the worst CB's I have ever seen. Blows coverage all the time and cost us atleast 4 games in the last 2 years! You are totally out to lunch.
This is the BEST NEWS I have seen all year!! Thank god the Gay is gone!! Now lets get some good CB's that won't blow coverage and actually cover tightly!!

"CATCH PHRASE!!!

:rolleyes:

if only we had players like asomughua, samuels, or revis and cromartie, we would have the #1 rated pass defense in the league.

:cool:

ricardisimo
03-29-2012, 03:44 AM
"CATCH PHRASE!!!

:rolleyes:

if only we had players like asomughua, samuels, or revis and cromartie, we would have the #1 rated pass defense in the league.

:cool:
But... wait a second... :huh: But I thought that... but you said that... :scratchchin: but what about... ? :noidea:

rcoplien
03-29-2012, 10:55 AM
Settle down, lol. He's a far cry better than McFadden was and he's improved a lot since '09. We seen that disaster of a year.

True Mcfadden wasn't much better.:applaudit:

Fire Arians
03-29-2012, 11:50 AM
True Mcfadden wasn't much better.:applaudit:

toast mcfadden was a bum, there's a reason why he was benched after the 1st game