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Hawaii 5-0
04-15-2012, 11:15 PM
Is Big Ben the best QB drafted in the last 10 years?

By Marc Sessler NFL.com
Published: April 13, 2012


Twenty-seven quarterbacks have been selected in the first round of the draft over the past 10 years.

Around the League ranked them from top to bottom. The core criteria is a mix of career achievement and future potential (for instance, Cam Newton at No. 5? You bet, based on what we've seen and what we expect to see).


You're an NFL general manager. Who do you want leading your team? Here's our list:

1. Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers (No. 11, 2004)
2. Aaron Rodgers, Packers (No. 24, 2005)
3. Eli Manning, Chargers (traded to Giants) (No. 1, 2004)
4. Philip Rivers, Giants (traded to Chargers) (No. 4, 2004)
5. Cam Newton, Panthers (No. 1, 2011)
6. Matt Ryan, Falcons (No. 3, 2008)
7. Matthew Stafford, Lions (No. 1, 2009)
8. Jay Cutler, Broncos (No. 11, 2006)
9. Carson Palmer, Bengals (No. 1, 2003)
10. Sam Bradford, Rams (No. 1, 2010)
11. Joe Flacco, Ravens (No. 18, 2008)
12. Mark Sanchez, Jets (No. 5, 2009)
13. Alex Smith, 49ers (No. 1, 2005)
14. Josh Freeman, Buccaneers (No. 17, 2009)
15. Jason Campbell, Redskins (No. 25, 2005)
16. Vince Young, Titans (No. 3, 2006)
17. Tim Tebow, Broncos (No. 25, 2010)
18. Rex Grossman, Bears (No. 22, 2003)
19. David Carr, Texans (No. 1, 2002)
20. Byron Leftwich, Jaguars (No. 7, 2003)
21. Matt Leinart, Cardinals (No. 10, 2006)
22. Kyle Boller, Ravens (No. 19, 2003)
23. Brady Quinn, Browns (No. 22, 2007)
24. Joey Harrington, Lions (No. 3, 2002)
25. Patrick Ramsey, Redskins (No. 32, 2002)
26. J.P. Losman, Bills (No. 22, 2004)
27. JaMarcus Russell, Raiders (No. 1, 2007)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82848a6c/article/is-big-ben-the-best-qb-drafted-in-the-last-10-years

tanda10506
04-15-2012, 11:37 PM
Based on stats per season, no not quite. Based on championships, hell yeah. Ben is THEE playoff QB and will probably go down as the best playoff QB in history. Rodgers and Rivers may have more in the raw talent category, but Ben is a winner, more than Rodgers and way more than Rivers.

Pa Yankee
04-16-2012, 12:03 AM
I don't think Ben will ever be the best playoff qb thanks to his super bowl 40 performance.

MACH1
04-16-2012, 12:24 AM
I don't think Ben will ever be the best playoff qb thanks to his super bowl 40 performance.

Remind me again what he did to get to the sb?

stb_steeler
04-16-2012, 12:34 AM
Your list is a bit off...According to Flacco, hes number 1.....:flap:

stb_steeler
04-16-2012, 12:35 AM
Remind me again what he did to get to the sb?

He promised Bettis 4 gameballs.......:toofunny:

OX1947
04-16-2012, 01:11 AM
If Big Ben had led the Steelers on that last drive in SB 45 to a TD, I would have said yes 100%.

lloydwoodson
04-16-2012, 04:32 AM
To not put Aaron Rodgers at the top of that list is absurd and nullifies any claim to credibility this list might have from the outset. Rodgers had one of the best seasons of any quarterback ever last year. No other qb on that list has been an NFL MVP, and only Manning has also been a Superbowl MVP (not once but twice). This list defines stupidity.

Kingmagyar
04-16-2012, 07:03 AM
As much as I am a Home town guy I still would put Ben right now behind Eli and Rogers who both are far superior in Xs and Os then Ben. However if a team coaches the Xs and Os better then Rogers and Eli they can be stymied with Ben and his street ball type of play a defense usually can never get him completely shut down.

I would say Ben needs to step some things up however as he more then likely is descending that list now more then rising.

MDSteel15
04-16-2012, 08:09 AM
To not put Aaron Rodgers at the top of that list is absurd and nullifies any claim to credibility this list might have from the outset. Rodgers had one of the best seasons of any quarterback ever last year. No other qb on that list has been an NFL MVP, and only Manning has also been a Superbowl MVP (not once but twice). This list defines stupidity.

Rogers has 1, that's right 1 ring, in how many seasons? The all mighty Eli finally got his 2nd and he was the number 1 pick! Ben has 2, been to 3 and was the number 11 pick... Put those number together and he has been the better QB!

He lead them to the first SB, no thanks to Bettis' fumble...
He should have been the MVP, NOT Santonio, against Arizona!!!
And he still had a chance to beat Green Bay, despite 5 team TOs, in the final 2 minutes of SB 45...
All with an o-line and OC that were worth about 2 cents!!! :banging:

Curtain_of_Steel
04-16-2012, 08:16 AM
Flacco's #11? Sanchez 12? Obviously they were not a contributing part of this ranking, lol.

Obviously I would not want anymore other than Ben. Rogers makes a great case. But we played so bad that game and still almost pulled it off if it wasn;t for the fumble. Of course the 2 int's didn;t help. But at the ed of the day despite 3 TO's we still had a shot.

Don't like Eli, never have, never will. Hopefully he is on the all madden cover this year.

I agree with MDSteel on all points, how does Ben with that drive and not 1 but 2 perfectly positioned endzone passes not get the SB MVP? Some body had to pass the balls for 90 yards, lol Thats why Disney invoted him as well.

Sixburgher
04-16-2012, 10:35 AM
As much as I am a Home town guy I still would put Ben right now behind Eli and Rogers who both are far superior in Xs and Os then Ben.

I can see the case for Rodgers, but not Manning. Over their respective careers, Ben has a higher TD per attempt ratio, a lower INT per attempt ratio, a higher YPA, and a substantially higher completion percentage than Eli Manning.

GMU Steeler
04-16-2012, 10:45 AM
I can see the case for Rodgers, but not Manning. Over their respective careers, Ben has a higher TD per attempt ratio, a lower INT per attempt ratio, a higher YPA, and a substantially higher completion percentage than Eli Manning.

Same. I've started to warm to Eli but I can't put him over Ben just yet even if he has the same number of SB wins as Ben. I'll put it this way. Happy to have Ben.

LayingTheWoodley56
04-16-2012, 10:56 AM
Kills me to say it, but you can't rank Ben above Eli anymore. Eli has become the superior pocket passer (as evidenced by the monster numbers he threw up this year), he has the same number of championships as Ben and he won the MVP in both of them (whereas Ben didn't win the MVP in either Super Bowl. Beating the Patriots twice (once when they were gunning for the title of Greatest Team of All Time) is also more impressive than beating the Seahawks and Cardinals.

Now, I'm not trying to take anything away from Ben. We know he is an excellent quarterback and a big-game player. I live in New York and while I still tell all the Giant fans that I know that I would take my guy over theirs (and I would, because Ben has been fabulous for his entire time in Pittsburgh), objectively speaking Eli is the better quarterback right now. That being said, you really can't go wrong with either Ben, Eli or Rodgers.

Steel Peon
04-16-2012, 11:02 AM
I used to have a higher opinion of Jay Cutler, but now I think he's WAY too high on that list.......I'd even take Sanchize over him.

Millers the sh!t
04-16-2012, 11:15 AM
To not put Aaron Rodgers at the top of that list is absurd and nullifies any claim to credibility this list might have from the outset. Rodgers had one of the best seasons of any quarterback ever last year. No other qb on that list has been an NFL MVP, and only Manning has also been a Superbowl MVP (not once but twice). This list defines stupidity.

100% agreed with ur comments. This list is a joke.

Someone commented that Ben is better cause it took Eli X amount of years to win his 2nd superbowl. what they failed to mention is that Eli is CLEARLY getting better at his job in all dimensions and that Ben has settled and remained the same. Eli has surpassed Ben, and is a much better playoff stable qb than Ben.

Rogers is the best on the list. He's the best in the NFL. Guys nothing but lights out. Had one bad game in 2 full seasons.

TRH
04-16-2012, 12:43 PM
Eli has not "surpassed" Ben. They're both great in very different ways. Yet....once again..Eli has a much better OL and still has a tendency to get rattled. I'd like to see Ben play behind a better line.
For me, i'd take Ben over Eli.
And what did he do to get us a SB win? Well...he played the part of leader and general to perfection. In this stat-happy world we live in now, those intangibles get criminally overlooked. Plenty of times when the QB in recent years has been so generically handed the MVP award, it clearly should have gone to someone else. I'm not buying most of the arguments in this thread, they're ridiculous.

jb500ex
04-16-2012, 08:25 PM
Eli has not "surpassed" Ben. They're both great in very different ways. Yet....once again..Eli has a much better OL and still has a tendency to get rattled. I'd like to see Ben play behind a better line.
For me, i'd take Ben over Eli.
And what did he do to get us a SB win? Well...he played the part of leader and general to perfection. In this stat-happy world we live in now, those intangibles get criminally overlooked. Plenty of times when the QB in recent years has been so generically handed the MVP award, it clearly should have gone to someone else. I'm not buying most of the arguments in this thread, they're ridiculous.

eli had the worst rushing offense and defense this season. his line hasnt been good for a couple years yet he alone carried his team through the regular season. he was far superior this season to any year ben has had eli is clearly better then ben now only a homer would say otherwise. ben has had so many bad playoff games in recent years his playoff numbers are only average now. future hof'er like mark sanchez have number that are far better in the playoffs for only being in the league 3 years. one qb has shined in 2 super bowls 1 qb has been terrible in 2 superbowls. eli is better now

55BaileyFan
04-16-2012, 08:46 PM
No.

Ben has had off field issues and I don't care what he did to get to a Super Bowl...in XL we won in spite of him...in XLIII he made that big pass but the final drive was incompletions and two 4th downs (Santonio got that one) and in XLV he looked like he didn't know how to run a two minute drill.

He is a great quarterback but wants to do it all himself and doesn't want to run the ball. Eli and Aaron understand team efforts. I know they don't run like we do but thats not their game plan. He is in the top three but not a 1, 2.

NSMaster56
04-16-2012, 09:15 PM
It's between BB, Eli and Raaaadgers. That's the gold-silver-bronze in some order.

Rodgers may have the most pure talent, but since rings arguably matter most Big Ben and Eli probably have the most claim to #1.

It all depends on one's subjective interpretation of 'best' concerning the QB position.

If I had to rank based on a combined talent/merits to date scale:

1. Raaaaadga's
2. Big Ben
3. Eli

I put BB #2 because his OL has been terrible since 07/08 and he's still been very successful. Granted, he's got a great D to help, but Eli would be throwing more picks than Rick Mirer behind the Steelers OL.

Millers the sh!t
04-17-2012, 01:26 AM
Rogers has 1, that's right 1 ring, in how many seasons? The all mighty Eli finally got his 2nd and he was the number 1 pick! Ben has 2, been to 3 and was the number 11 pick... Put those number together and he has been the better QB!

He lead them to the first SB, no thanks to Bettis' fumble...
He should have been the MVP, NOT Santonio, against Arizona!!!
And he still had a chance to beat Green Bay, despite 5 team TOs, in the final 2 minutes of SB 45...
All with an o-line and OC that were worth about 2 cents!!! :banging:


Rogers got a ring in his 3rd season as a starter. I'll extrapolate Rogers' stats over 8 seasons and compare them to Ben.

Ben/Aaron -pass % 63.1/65.6 yards 26,579/34,074 TD 165/262 int. 100/74 Rat. 92/105.2

We could do the same with SB wins. Ben 2 Aaron a season away from getting #3. I could care less about rings deciding who's a better qb. Teams earn the rings, not qb's.

Rogers is physically and mentally superior than Ben.


Enough said.

Kingmagyar
04-17-2012, 06:58 AM
As Ben gets older his ace in the hole (his escape ability) is going to decrease and he will become more injury prone so he must get smarter as a QB. I thought last year was very evident that he lacked a lot of football smarts with the bad interceptions he would throw into double or triple coverage instead of taking the more logical choice underneath that in fact was open. Even in the last superbowl there were many receivers open and he would often choose the wrong throw. Lack of red zone production is on Ben as well. Notice the best red zone teams have cerebral QBs (Brady, Brees, Rogers, etc) or at least cerebral Offensive Coordinators.

That is why I believe Arians was fired because he wasn't advancing Ben's thought processes enough. Enter Todd Haley and hopefully a better higher IQ Ben. But for right now Eli's play is smarter and it's winning super bowls. If Eli played behind the Steeler's line he would not get sacked as much because the ball would be out quicker something Ben is going to change in his game this year or he will steadily decline every year from here on out as the other QBs advance.

Sixburgher
04-17-2012, 08:24 AM
eli had the worst rushing offense and defense this season. his line hasnt been good for a couple years yet he alone carried his team through the regular season. he was far superior this season to any year ben has had eli is clearly better then ben now only a homer would say otherwise. ben has had so many bad playoff games in recent years his playoff numbers are only average now. future hof'er like mark sanchez have number that are far better in the playoffs for only being in the league 3 years. one qb has shined in 2 super bowls 1 qb has been terrible in 2 superbowls. eli is better now

Sure, never mind Manning throwing 25 picks in 2010. The closest Roethlisberger has come to that was in 2006, when he had 23 on the season and arguably had no business playing in a number of games that year, after damn near dying in the offseason. Manning is also one Asante Samuel and one Wes Welker drop away from being ringless himself. Roethlisberger's entire body of work still outshines Manning's to this point.

MDSteel15
04-17-2012, 09:31 AM
Rogers got a ring in his 3rd season as a starter. I'll extrapolate Rogers' stats over 8 seasons and compare them to Ben.

Ben/Aaron -pass % 63.1/65.6 yards 26,579/34,074 TD 165/262 int. 100/74 Rat. 92/105.2

We could do the same with SB wins. Ben 2 Aaron a season away from getting #3. I could care less about rings deciding who's a better qb. Teams earn the rings, not qb's.

Rogers is physically and mentally superior than Ben.


Enough said.

2 totally different offenses! Go back a couple years and when Ben was slinging it around he had the same stupid ass statistics as every othere gunslinger that wasn't winning! If what you want are stats, bring back Tommy Maddox!!!

Millers the sh!t
04-17-2012, 11:54 AM
2 totally different offenses! Go back a couple years and when Ben was slinging it around he had the same stupid ass statistics as every othere gunslinger that wasn't winning! If what you want are stats, bring back Tommy Maddox!!!

Steelers are a pass first offense, so isn't green bay. Each pass attempt is a decision made by the qb. Rogers clearly makes better decisions than Ben.

If green bay came with a deal that involves trading Ben for Aaron 99% of you would be saying welcome aboard Aaron. Don't kid yourself. Eeryones defense on hear is so lame. Just cause Benz a steeler don't mean you have to stick up for him.

Millers the sh!t
04-17-2012, 11:56 AM
Sure, never mind Manning throwing 25 picks in 2010. The closest Roethlisberger has come to that was in 2006, when he had 23 on the season and arguably had no business playing in a number of games that year, after damn near dying in the offseason. Manning is also one Asante Samuel and one Wes Welker drop away from being ringless himself. Roethlisberger's entire body of work still outshines Manning's to this point.

How many td's were thrown in those years?

Millers the sh!t
04-17-2012, 12:05 PM
As Ben gets older his ace in the hole (his escape ability) is going to decrease and he will become more injury prone so he must get smarter as a QB. I thought last year was very evident that he lacked a lot of football smarts with the bad interceptions he would throw into double or triple coverage instead of taking the more logical choice underneath that in fact was open. Even in the last superbowl there were many receivers open and he would often choose the wrong throw. Lack of red zone production is on Ben as well. Notice the best red zone teams have cerebral QBs (Brady, Brees, Rogers, etc) or at least cerebral Offensive Coordinators.

That is why I believe Arians was fired because he wasn't advancing Ben's thought processes enough. Enter Todd Haley and hopefully a better higher IQ Ben. But for right now Eli's play is smarter and it's winning super bowls. If Eli played behind the Steeler's line he would not get sacked as much because the ball would be out quicker something Ben is going to change in his game this year or he will steadily decline every year from here on out as the other QBs advance.

Beautiful: glad someone else notices that bens greediness to try and get the big play every down (pad his stats) is hurting the team. It was also clearly noticeable in the Denver game.

One of bens games that really impressed me was the pats game of 2011. Hitting the open man, not being selfish, not trying to hit the HR every play. If he were like that every game I'd really really be behind the guy, and our offense would be putting up more points and giving up less int's. Only thing that needed improvement was the redzone offense. That's where the ground and pound should be coming into play. C'mon Haley!!!!!

Rogers bread and butter in the redzone are simple back shoulder throws in the endzne. Happen every game and they are simply executed. Steelers should at least TRY it once or twice. Patriots bread and butter are two players doing in routes from oposite sides. Steelers do try it but Ben always yhrows it too high.

austinfrench76
04-17-2012, 01:09 PM
I just happen to completely agree with the list. I take Ben over every other one of these QB's, YES, inlcuding Rodgers! Ben's a winner and I truly believe that not one of these other QB's would have had ANY success behind our OLine. NONE.

austinfrench76
04-17-2012, 01:10 PM
Maybe Cam. Or Russell becasue he was so fat that people bounced off of him. But no one else.

jb500ex
04-17-2012, 05:46 PM
I just happen to completely agree with the list. I take Ben over every other one of these QB's, YES, inlcuding Rodgers! Ben's a winner and I truly believe that not one of these other QB's would have had ANY success behind our OLine. NONE.

you could also say that any other qb would have better stats with our defense and ben wouldnt win anywhere near the games he has with his 14 to 22nd ranked offense in points scored. those guys put up points we dont

Twentyvalve
04-17-2012, 07:51 PM
I will take Ben. Every other QB on the list relies on the receiver to get just a little bit open to deliver a precision pass that only few could make. Their personnel and schemes are built around this. These QB's don't make plays, they execute them.

Ben however, has the talent to do this. But, not quite at the Rodgers level - however, it is a small enough difference that it would be negligible in the overall dynamic of he game. Ben's strength is making the play. Nobody open? Step out of the pocket and reassess the situation. Getting blitzed? Shirk off that 240 pound linebacker and make a play. Need a few yards for a first down on third down? No problem, QB sneak. And all of that while injured most of the time.

Rogers can out-shoot Ben. But, when it comes to sheer dynamic QB play, Ben is the winner. Easily.

Not to take anything away from Manning, I just find it weird he is in this conversation. I am sure he earned his status, I just feel like he disappears for a few years at a time. My guess is we see or hear very little of him next year.

Millers the sh!t
04-18-2012, 02:27 AM
I will take Ben. Every other QB on the list relies on the receiver to get just a little bit open to deliver a precision pass that only few could make. Their personnel and schemes are built around this. These QB's don't make plays, they execute them.

Ben however, has the talent to do this. But, not quite at the Rodgers level - however, it is a small enough difference that it would be negligible in the overall dynamic of he game. Ben's strength is making the play. Nobody open? Step out of the pocket and reassess the situation. Getting blitzed? Shirk off that 240 pound linebacker and make a play. Need a few yards for a first down on third down? No problem, QB sneak. And all of that while injured most of the time.

Rogers can out-shoot Ben. But, when it comes to sheer dynamic QB play, Ben is the winner. Easily.

Not to take anything away from Manning, I just find it weird he is in this conversation. I am sure he earned his status, I just feel like he disappears for a few years at a time. My guess is we see or hear very little of him next year.

So in other words... Ben ain't good enough to be a precision passer, Our WR's suck and can't get open so Ben has to scramble to make the play. Ummm.... Maybe our WR's are open but Ben ain't cerebral or precise enough to hit the target when he is supposed to. Rogers makes PLENTY of plays with his feet out of the pocket or running for first downs or TD's. Rogers is the best in the league. No question about it. Guys a stud.

Millers the sh!t
04-18-2012, 02:36 AM
you could also say that any other qb would have better stats with our defense and ben wouldnt win anywhere near the games he has with his 14 to 22nd ranked offense in points scored. those guys put up points we dont


I could also say this.

Cmon guys, Bens good and exciting to watch, no doubt. But, he ain't a god like u think. Just like what was written above if he was elite he'd be scoring more points and less int's than he does. Take away our top defense and we = the bengals. Wouldn't be making the playoffs EVER. Rogers can make the playoffs and beat quality teams while letting the opponent score 30 points. If any team scores 24 points on us....... We lose.

Twentyvalve
04-18-2012, 11:04 AM
No, not in "other words." I did even hint at that. I think you missed the part, and I quote "Ben however, has the talent to do this. But, not quite at the Rodgers level - however, it is a small enough difference that it would be negligible in the overall dynamic of he game. ."

You come across as upset for some reason?

I agree, Rodgers does make plays with his feet. But nowhere near to the effect that Ben has. And Rodgers is by far the best "executer" of plays in the league.

So in other words... Ben ain't good enough to be a precision passer, Our WR's suck and can't get open so Ben has to scramble to make the play. Ummm.... Maybe our WR's are open but Ben ain't cerebral or precise enough to hit the target when he is supposed to. Rogers makes PLENTY of plays with his feet out of the pocket or running for first downs or TD's. Rogers is the best in the league. No question about it. Guys a stud.

Millers the sh!t
04-18-2012, 07:23 PM
No, not in "other words." I did even hint at that. I think you missed the part, and I quote "Ben however, has the talent to do this. But, not quite at the Rodgers level - however, it is a small enough difference that it would be negligible in the overall dynamic of he game. ."

You come across as upset for some reason?

I agree, Rodgers does make plays with his feet. But nowhere near to the effect that Ben has. And Rodgers is by far the best "executer" of plays in the league.

Yep.... Ben is capable of being truely elite, but just doesn't do it. Hmmmmmm......
Sounds a little far fetched.

You know I can run 65 mph.?? I'd show ya, but I just don't want to do it.

Twentyvalve
04-18-2012, 08:15 PM
Now you are saying I said he could be elite? I never even used the word, and I did not even elude to that. And you said I just about stated the opposite in my initial reply to this thread? I am not being sarcastic, or pointed, but I have no idea where you are coming from. I am saying this:

1. Ben is capable of making precision throws, not the the extent of Rogers who is off the charts.
2. Ben makes plays happen. He does not rely on his receivers as do most other QB's. He can scramble, throw on the run, etc.
3. I would rather have Ben than any other QB as a result of my own opinion.

Are we even discussing the same thread? This is really odd. :noidea:

QUOTE=Millers the sh!t;1006685]Yep.... Ben is capable of truely elite, but just doesn't do it. Hmmmmmm......
Sounds a little far fetched.

You know I can run 65 mph.?? I'd show ya, but I just don't want to do it.[/QUOTE]

Millers the sh!t
04-18-2012, 09:39 PM
Well as a fan. I'd want the best team possible. And based on yes and mine opinion about Rogers, I'd take him over Ben.

That's all I'm saying.....

Twentyvalve
04-19-2012, 07:13 AM
I can see that. The good thing is he would probably put up more points. The bad is that he is going to get pounded as the likes of Suggs waltz through the line break his nose, roll his ankle, break his toe, etc. I would not wish that on anybody! :chuckle:


Well as a fan. I'd want the best team possible. And based on yes and mine opinion about Rogers, I'd take him over Ben.

That's all I'm saying.....

kan_t
04-19-2012, 09:04 AM
If you go for rings, it's Eli who has two rings (same as Ben) AND two SB MVP (Ben has none).

If you go for stats, it's Rogers who destroys everyone (and he also has a ring and a SB MVP).

So the answer is NO. I can see Ben the No.2 QB in both measures, but definitely not the best.

kan_t
04-19-2012, 09:05 AM
I can see that. The good thing is he would probably put up more points. The bad is that he is going to get pounded as the likes of Suggs waltz through the line break his nose, roll his ankle, break his toe, etc. I would not wish that on anybody! :chuckle:
Rogers' mobility actually is better than Ben. And by the time Suggs tries to break his nose, Rogers has likely thrown the ball already.

Twentyvalve
04-19-2012, 11:09 AM
I am not sure about that. A mountain of stats would have to determine that out either way. I would say that Rogers is more graceful and fluid, and maybe "moblie" but does not keep plays alive as well.

Rogers makes things too easy, that is for sure.

Rogers' mobility actually is better than Ben. And by the time Suggs tries to break his nose, Rogers has likely thrown the ball already.

Millers the sh!t
04-19-2012, 12:05 PM
Watching Ben is like watching an edge of your seat action movie. My heart can't handle it too much, but I love it.

Watching Rogers is like watching an opera. Sit back and enjoy the beauty, and perfection that you know is coming.

Watching Eli is like watching a magic show. Ur not sure what's coming, or exactly how they do it but u leave feeling curious and satisfied.

Watching Sanchez is like watching a dog drag his ass against the carpet. Down right hilarious....

NSMaster56
04-19-2012, 08:23 PM
Watching Ben is like watching an edge of your seat action movie. My heart can't handle it too much, but I love it.

Watching Rogers is like watching an opera. Sit back and enjoy the beauty, and perfection that you know is coming.

Watching Eli is like watching a magic show. Ur not sure what's coming, or exactly how they do it but u leave feeling curious and satisfied.

Watching Sanchez is like watching a dog drag his ass against the carpet. Down right hilarious....

This is quite possibly the best explantion of said QB's I've ever heard.

Take a bow!

Riddle_Of_Steel
04-19-2012, 09:25 PM
I would still take Ben's intangibles over Aaron Rodgers' Phillip Rivers-esque stats. Rodgers and Ben have both been surrounded by good to great teams, and so far, Ben has delivered twice, almost three times, Rodgers has only managed to get to the big dance once.

No other QB in the NFL has yet to demonstrate the ability to succeed behind such a patchwork and sub-par offensive line. We can't really assess Ben against any of the other guys on that list realistically because his first read always has to be over his left shoulder to see who he is about to be squashed by. None of the other QBs on that list would survive half a season behind Chris Kemoeatu and #72. Heck Byron Leftwich, Dennis the Interception Dixon, and Charlie Batch have not surivived 4 consecutive games behind our Oline since pre-2006.

When you don't even have enough time to hand the ball off on simple dive plays before being sacked, you cannot really judge the QB's inconsistent performance and put it all on him. A QB's best friend is his blocking unit. A QB with lots of time and no pressure can find open guys, even if they aren't Randy Moss. A QB with no protection is likely to put on what appears to be, an inconsistent and unreliable performance.

Ben got us to SB XL with the likes of Nate Washington and Cedric Wilson as his top receivers. Aaron Rodgers has enjoyed a top protection unit (not surprisingly, like most QBs that are considered elite), some of the best receivers, the best tight ends, and some of the best pass defense units and all he has managed to produce is one superbowl and some gaudy stats.

Based on that, Ben should be #1A, and Rodgers #1B.

Steelerindc
04-20-2012, 07:36 AM
Sorry for the late response and I love Ben, but I'm going to keep it simple.....No.

FanSince72
04-20-2012, 10:12 AM
I don't think Ben will ever be the best playoff qb thanks to his super bowl 40 performance.

I am sick and tired of hearing about SB40.

Once again:


11-5 for the season (averaging 24 ppg)
Wiped the floor with Cincy
Dominated Peyton and the Colts (which was clouded by the bad call on Troy's pick and Bettis' fumble)
Put on a clinic in Denver


I think the reason why Ben was shaky in the SB was because Cowher (Mr. Cautious, Mr. Martyball, Mr. "protect the lead") had two-weeks to get into Ben's head about "playing not to lose" and it almost cost us the title.

As you may recall Ben's comments to Cowher during that game: "Coach, let's play to win; let's not play not to lose, OK?"

When a second-year QB (did you know that that was only his second year?) says that to his coach during a SB, there's something wrong.

Look at it another way:
The "Big Three" QB's drafted in '04 were Ben, Manning and Rivers. (J.P. Losmann was actually the fourth but who cares?). Ben was the first to earn two titles and play in three title games. Manning and Ben are now equal in terms of rings, but can Manning do what Ben does?

I don't think so.

Overall, I think Ben is one helluva find.
He'll never be great as far as statistics go, but neither was Bradshaw (and he worked out pretty well as I recall).

lloydwoodson
04-26-2012, 09:27 PM
Rodgers has been sacked the most in the NFL for the last several years. He is responsible for his own success.Rodgers threw 45 touchdowns and 6 interceptions last year. That ends the conversation. No other quarterback on that list will approach those numbers. Anyone who disagrees should be doubted on any other opinion they have on football matters because they are completely biased and aren't living in reality.

JCPsteelers
04-26-2012, 10:13 PM
I think Ben and Eli are basically tied. Ben a little better in regular season, Eli a little better in playoffs. Both are probably headed to Canton


Rodgers only has played 4 years but he's off to a good start.

Rivers is good just not elite.

Cam Newton going to be a stud

wootawnee
04-26-2012, 10:41 PM
Bens a warrior....Ely takes hits too...
Rodgers is soft.....And does not make things happen if the system isnt workin.....
Thats why I would take Ben.......Ely....Then Rodgers......

TheVet
04-27-2012, 02:21 AM
Very few QBs could have have kept their team competitive with the awful O-line and simplistic offensive schemes that we've had here at Pitt in recent years. Ben makes things happen out of nothing; he's a born whatever-it-takes winner. He has that rare quality that cannot be taught.

Having said that, his development has stagnated, and he's not fulfilling his potential. Much of that can be attributed to a weak Offensive Coordinator. Firing Arians will be the best thing that has ever happened for Ben's career.

Ben is a great QB, but he can be better. Lets see what happens when he's challenged to grow. I think he could still separate himself from this group.

Rick5895
04-27-2012, 08:29 AM
Very few QBs could have have kept their team competitive with the awful O-line and simplistic offensive schemes that we've had here at Pitt in recent years. Ben makes things happen out of nothing; he's a born whatever-it-takes winner. He has that rare quality that cannot be taught.

Having said that, his development has stagnated, and he's not fulfilling his potential. Much of that can be attributed to a weak Offensive Coordinator. Firing Arians will be the best thing that has ever happened for Ben's career.

Ben is a great QB, but he can be better. Lets see what happens when he's challenged to grow. I think he could still separate himself from this group.



Right on the money. The discussion is good but the qbs mentioned all bring something different to the field.
Ben is the right QB for our team right now. So yes I will say he's the best in the last 10. Stats are for fantasy football guys. You can't measure toughness and heart.

Millers the sh!t
04-27-2012, 11:37 AM
Rodgers has been sacked the most in the NFL for the last several years. He is responsible for his own success.Rodgers threw 45 touchdowns and 6 interceptions last year. That ends the conversation. No other quarterback on that list will approach those numbers. Anyone who disagrees should be doubted on any other opinion they have on football matters because they are completely biased and aren't living in reality.



Ha ha ha ha ha........ It's funny cause it's true!

Millers the sh!t
04-27-2012, 11:43 AM
Bens a warrior....Ely takes hits too...
Rodgers is soft.....And does not make things happen if the system isnt workin.....
Thats why I would take Ben.......Ely....Then Rodgers......

How many times has Rogers been injured? A concussion here an there that's it. Gets sacked just as many times as big Ben. Rogers ain't soft bro...

Rogers is so good that the system don't have the opportunity to fall apart. And if it does fall apart he's great at making something with his legs or scrambling to the outside and rifling it to wherever it's got to be. That's a great qb in my eyes.

kan_t
04-27-2012, 11:44 AM
How many times has Rogers been injured? A concussion here an there that's it. Gets sacked just as many times as big Ben. Rogers ain't soft bro...

Rogers is so good that the system don't have the opportunity to fall apart. And if it does fall apart he's great at making something with his legs or scrambling to the outside and rifling it to wherever it's got to be. That's a great qb in my eyes.
Couldn't agree more.

vogaman
04-27-2012, 03:54 PM
Not that its a big deal, but Rodgers has never been sacked more than Ben in any of his first four seasons.

Times sacked:

2008 season: Roethlisberger: 46 / Rodgers: 34
2009 season: Roethlisberger: 50 / Rodgers: 50
2010 season: Roethlisberger: 32 / Rodgers: 31
2011 season: Roethlisberger: 40 / Rodgers: 36

It's pretty tough to put Ben over Rodgers on this list, though. Don't really understand the Eli love, at all, though. It's like saying Deion Branch is a better receiver than Greg Jennings because he was Super Bowl MVP.

lloydwoodson
04-27-2012, 11:05 PM
Not that its a big deal, but Rodgers has never been sacked more than Ben in any of his first four seasons.

Times sacked:

2008 season: Roethlisberger: 46 / Rodgers: 34
2009 season: Roethlisberger: 50 / Rodgers: 50
2010 season: Roethlisberger: 32 / Rodgers: 31
2011 season: Roethlisberger: 40 / Rodgers: 36

It's pretty tough to put Ben over Rodgers on this list, though. Don't really understand the Eli love, at all, though. It's like saying Deion Branch is a better receiver than Greg Jennings because he was Super Bowl MVP.

Yeah I didn't look up the stats. I used my comment as bait to get someone to do it for me. Thanks for the help. :applaudit: Now, someone was saying something funny about how great the Packers O-line has protected Rodgers...

kwpit79
04-28-2012, 08:57 AM
It's between BB, Eli and Raaaadgers. That's the gold-silver-bronze in some order.

Rodgers may have the most pure talent, but since rings arguably matter most Big Ben and Eli probably have the most claim to #1.



I'm sorry but this "count the rings" argument doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Because Ben played with what I would argue is the defense of the decade in the (00's Steelers), Ben better have more rings! The Steelers ranked number 1 in total defense something like 6 times in the past 9 years. That's insane.

Did Elway become a better QB at 35 when he won his first ring (after being absolutely destroyed in his first three SBs)? No, he had a much better team/coaching staff around him.

Is Dilfer better than Marino? Of course not, he had the 2000 Ravens defense and a great o-line/running game to manage.

Is Eli Manning all of a sudden an amazing QB because that backup kick returner for the 49ers muffs two punts leading to their loss?

I do think if a QB, who consistently plays great in the regular season, stinks it up in the postseason you can downgrade him, like Payton did in his earlier career. That's why Montana is still the greatest QB ever imo. He was just as dominant in the post-season as he was in the regular season.

plenewken
04-28-2012, 09:30 AM
Watching Ben is like watching an edge of your seat action movie. My heart can't handle it too much, but I love it.

Watching Rogers is like watching an opera. Sit back and enjoy the beauty, and perfection that you know is coming.

Watching Eli is like watching a magic show. Ur not sure what's coming, or exactly how they do it but u leave feeling curious and satisfied.

Watching Sanchez is like watching a dog drag his ass against the carpet. Down right hilarious....

:applaudit::applaudit::applaudit:

Best comment I've read on the subject.

NSMaster56
04-28-2012, 01:04 PM
I'm sorry but this "count the rings" argument doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Because Ben played with what I would argue is the defense of the decade in the (00's Steelers), Ben better have more rings! The Steelers ranked number 1 in total defense something like 6 times in the past 9 years. That's insane.

I do think if a QB, who consistently plays great in the regular season, stinks it up in the postseason you can downgrade him, like Payton did in his earlier career. That's why Montana is still the greatest QB ever imo. He was just as dominant in the post-season as he was in the regular season.

Your point is absolutely valid.

The 'count the rings' case is not a defining factor, just another to consider.

I would say, however, that both in the case of BB and Eli, while their team D's were quite good and a large part of their [championship] success, that the offensive deficiencies on their teams were also quite evident.

So by overcoming those shortcomings and leading their teams to a championship twice (and in the case of Eli's G-men, over the 18-0 Pats!!!), I think each QB has established themself as an elite talent.

I mean, the Packers looked downright invincible most of last year and then crapped out vs. the Giants, so... sometimes 'team talent' doesn't trump all either.

The ability to lead a team to victory in pressure situations matters and both BB and Eli have delivered moreso than Rodgers (thusfar).

So, thusfar, both have a claim to #1.

I don't think any is the 'wrong' choice so long as the logic behind the pick isn't pure homerism.

Hawaii 5-0
04-28-2012, 10:54 PM
how much better can Ben be behind a good OL?

NFL Draft Winners

Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger Roethlisberger has been sacked at least 40 times in five of the past six seasons. It would likely be all six for six if not for his four-game suspension to start 2010 (he was sacked 32 times in 12 games that year). The big problem for most of that stretch has been the offensive line's absurdly awful play. The Steelers worked hard to address that by taking Stanford guard David DeCastro in the first round at No. 24 overall and then Ohio State offensive tackle Mike Adams in the second round. DeCastro was projected by some people to go as high as No. 11 and Adams was projected as a first-round draft pick until it was revealed he tested positive for marijuana at the combine. Adams agreed to several stipulations with the Steelers since the combine after lying to the team about his drug use. If Adams gets his act together, he, DeCastro, Marcus Gilbert and Maurkice Pouncey could form the best line the Steelers have had in the Roethlisberger era.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--nfl-draft-winners-losers-redskins-qualify-as-both-after-taking-robert-griffin-iii--kirk-cousins.html

Bayz101
04-28-2012, 11:30 PM
Watching Ben is like watching an edge of your seat action movie. My heart can't handle it too much, but I love it.

Watching Rogers is like watching an opera. Sit back and enjoy the beauty, and perfection that you know is coming.

Watching Eli is like watching a magic show. Ur not sure what's coming, or exactly how they do it but u leave feeling curious and satisfied.

Watching Sanchez is like watching a dog drag his ass against the carpet. Down right hilarious....

:applaudit: