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Hawaii 5-0
05-11-2012, 03:36 PM
Steelers players reaction to Todd Haley’s playbook shows how weak Arians playbook was

May 11th, 2012

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Pittsburgh+Steelers+v+Kansas+City+Chiefs+gZ8Yd8iTm zrm.jpg

Todd Haley has handed out the Steelers new playbook. From the reaction of the players it is nothing like the playbook Bruce Arians has put out in the past. Ben Roethlisberger compared it to learning “Rosetta Stone”. That is expected when a new coordinator comes in. You get his playbook rather than the one you were using.

There were two comments though that stood out to me with the players talking about the new playbook. One was from Ben Roethlisberger and the other from Emmanuel Sanders.

Roethlisberger when asked about the similarities in the playbook:

“The similarities would be on a shorter list. Off the top of my head, from what I’ve seen so far, there’s a 90 percent change.”

Emmanuel Sanders tweet about the depth of the playbook:

This new playbook is something serious!!!!! Bout to go old-school and make some flashcards.

Both liken the playbook to a completely new world. It makes this playbook seem more in depth and brand new. A playbook from a new coach should be new but not 90% new. If the Steelers had a good playbook before it would be 50-60% new. The overall scheme may change some but the plays even with new terminology should not be that different. It should not be that out of the ordinary. These two guys saying it is tells us even more about Bruce Arians.

Fans have been complaining for years about how predictable Bruce Arians was with the Steelers scheme. We all knew what type of play was coming when the Steelers would line up on offense. So did our opponents. They knew where the ball was going before the ball was even snapped. It showed in our offense. It showed in Roethlisberger’s grimace when he would get hit. We have all of these weapons and yet we can not score points. This makes sense as to why now.

People questioned the offensive line. They questioned Ben Roethlisberger. They questioned the wide receivers. The main question they asked was why does Ben hold on to the ball so long and take hits? Yes the offensive line was inconsistent. Yes Ben likes to be a hero. No the receivers did not get open. Now we understand though that the receivers may have not been able to get open because Arians playbook was so easy to figure out that it took more time for them to get open. If the defense knew what was coming they could roll the coverage to the play. If no one is open Ben had to hold the ball so he got hit more. So even though you can put some blame on the players most of it should go to Arians.

There were so many times when I sat on the couch and said that guy missed his hot read. Ben should have hit him right off the bat. The blitz was coming. Now seeing how much these guys think Haley’s playbook is so in depth it makes me wander if they did miss their hot read or not. Was there even a true hot read? Or, was a bubble screen Arians way of having a hot read?

How easy and how much lack of depth was there in Arians playbook? Roethlisberger is looking for his position coach to not throw to much at him at one time in the new playbook. That is fine this early but the fact that he needs to really take it slow shows how little was actually in Arians playbook. Sanders wanting to get flash cards to learn the plays says even more. Sanders is a film room junkie. While injured he eluded to making his friends angry because he would watch the live game like he was watching film. He is a student of the game. For him to be this taken a back by the playbook says we needed a new playbook.

So while these guys may take some time to get used to the new playbook it will help them in the end. They are going from a predictable offense which seemed to be pretty vanilla to and offense run by Haley that will play to their strengths. They will get better routes. They will read coverages and they will find holes in the defense. That will give them the ability to get open faster. It will make the line look better. It will get the ball out of Roethlisberger’s hands faster so he gets hit less. Thus we will score more points. The pressure can be taken off of the defense a little bit. They can get some rest. It will make the entire team better.

So even if it takes all summer to learn. It seems like Haley’s new playbook is going to be worth it. This offense will be better under Haley.

http://bleedblackandgold.com/blog/2012/05/11/steelers-players-reaction-to-todd-haleys-playbook-shows-how-weak-arians-playbook-was/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+BleedBlackAndGold+%28Bleed+Bl ack+and+Gold%29

Fire Arians
05-11-2012, 03:55 PM
ive been saying it for years. fire arians

it's unfortunate that he's going to ruin andrew luck's career

3rdandlong
05-11-2012, 04:34 PM
Yeah, Arians play calling was very predictable. I can't wait to play the Colts and be able to call what play they are going to run on offense

tony hipchest
05-11-2012, 06:11 PM
totally agree with the article above. arians wasnt an innovator. he believed a "gameplan" was a simple match of wits between him and the d-coord, yet the rare instances our offense was rolling it was more of a factor of our kick ass offensive weapons making kick ass plays.

rarely was it because bruce outsmarted the opponent of put the players in the position to succeed.

in defense of bruce though, there were about 3-4 instances in the game where he would absolutely guess correctly with the right call vs the right defense and ben would have 4 targets running completely wide open. this usually resulted in ben chucking up the ball deep to mike wallace for an incomplete or int (see superbowl).

todd haley seems to be the type that will always study the oponents strengths and weaknesses and devise a gameplan around that, instead of arians saying "we will do what we do regardless of opponent, impose our will, :blah:

Riddle_Of_Steel
05-11-2012, 06:21 PM
I hate to be the dissenting voice (I find myself doing this more and more often around here-- I genuinely apologize...dont want to be the rain on the parade all the time)....but....

Strangely enough, my problem with Bruce Arians was never his playbook, but his inability to pick plays in an effective manner from that playbook and to string them together into a successful drive. Ganted, I am no offensive mastermind or even a coach, I just played through high school.

Most of the Bruce Arians playbook was carried over from well back into Cowher's era. I remember some of Ben's complaints from back when Tomlin first took over-- the playbook had mushroomed up to around 1000 pages, because over the years, our different O coordinators kept adding to it, but never subtracting any obsolete plays. And out of those, we only used some 20% in any given season, supposedly.

I don't know if I agree that the whole playbook needs a revamping. We just need somebody that can pick and choose the right plays during a game so we don't end up coming out 5-wide on 3rd and 1.

It will be very interesting to see how Brucies does in Indy with Andrew Luck. What if they end up with one of the leading offenses in the NFL?

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-11-2012, 06:51 PM
Most of the Bruce Arians playbook was carried over from well back into Cowher's era.

I disagree over this completely. In the Cowher era, I remember a lot of RB screen passes, FB leads, 3rd down sprint draws and definately more trapping and pulling of the linemen.

In the Arians 5 years we saw no FB, the elimination of RB screens, the advent of bubble screens, single back sets, more empty backfield and the desire to throw the ball to Carey davis on 3rd and short instead of trying to run it.

The harbingers of doom will be out with the 90% change in playbook.

Riddle_Of_Steel
05-11-2012, 07:05 PM
I disagree over this completely. In the Cowher era, I remember a lot of RB screen passes, FB leads, 3rd down sprint draws and definately more trapping and pulling of the linemen.

In the Arians 5 years we saw no FB, the elimination of RB screens, the advent of bubble screens, single back sets, more empty backfield and the desire to throw the ball to Carey davis on 3rd and short instead of trying to run it.

The harbingers of doom will be out with the 90% change in playbook.

Those plays were still in the playbook, Numb-nuts just never called them during games, or he called those ugly bubble-screens to his slowest receiver. We sort of abandoned RB screens years ago under Cowher, because Willie Parker SUCKED as a screen back.

Kingmagyar
05-11-2012, 07:38 PM
How about that big play card BA would read from? I was convinced it was an infinite script of plays that he would go down the line and read game after game, year after year in total disregard to game situation or down and distance.

But for me his lack of developing better red zone plays to score and demanding more perfection in the execution of plays (hot reads, screen passes, etc) is why I wanted him gone. He being a stubborn mule that he was refused to change or keep an open mind.

And least he will have his handy reference book to help Andrew Luck out.

http://forums.steelersfever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1538&d=1336779363

mesaSteeler
05-11-2012, 07:57 PM
Dam fine article. My only question is how did the Airhead keep his job so long?

MACH1
05-11-2012, 08:04 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lxZNM0Lf6sw/TyCYkBktTDI/AAAAAAAABGQ/pvMNgD5xAJ0/s1600/BA2.jpg

Steelersfan87
05-11-2012, 10:01 PM
More typical speculative every-day-fan style crapola from Bleed Black and Gold. Worst Steelers fan site out there.

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-11-2012, 10:26 PM
Those plays were still in the playbook, Numb-nuts just never called them during games, or he called those ugly bubble-screens to his slowest receiver. We sort of abandoned RB screens years ago under Cowher, because Willie Parker SUCKED as a screen back.

I call BS on that. Parker scored TD's on Screen passes. The Steelers always used screens with their 3rd down backs like Huntley, Fu, Haynes, Davenport, etc.

Arians could have and would have called screen passes to Carey Davis or Mendenhall, but they were never in his playbook. I really dont recall them being heavy on them in his Cleveland OC days neither.

Either way, I am happy to see what the new chapter brings from Haley.

StainlessStill
05-11-2012, 10:41 PM
Sorry guys. I'm just SO f*ckin stoked about this entire Haley hiring! I'd just stop now while I'm ahead of myself before I start jibbering. I'm THAT excited for this season! HERE WE GO!

lloydwoodson
05-11-2012, 10:52 PM
I thought it was hilarious that a reporter asked Haley during his draft press conference if the Steelers were going to draft a fullback in the sixth round. Haley cracked up and then said the next reporter wants to move along. It was pretty jokes.

lloydwoodson
05-11-2012, 10:56 PM
Actually though, what pissed me off the most about Arians was his arrogance. I will never forget him completely dismissing Dennis Dixon by saying he didn't have the frame to withstand the NFL game. Some of you might agree with that even though I do not, but a coach saying that to the media is disgusting. I think Arians formed his own little club where Ben and the WRs were the stars of the team. I think that is why Miller and Mendenhall were used conservatively.

Dalarin
05-11-2012, 11:50 PM
My biggest problem with Arians was when he found something that was effective I.E. passing to running backs in the flat or using Miller like he did against New England, he would dismiss that and go back to things that weren't working the next week. Every down as a coordinater should be a learning experience and he never seemed to progress.

TheVet
05-12-2012, 04:22 AM
Is there anybody who thinks that Arians did anything right? I sure can't find one nice thing to say about him. What a horrible dark period that was.

TheVet
05-12-2012, 04:36 AM
I'm not sure what "Bleed Black and Gold" is, but this was a damn good article - a very accurate assessment.

Steelersfan87
05-12-2012, 05:05 AM
Yeah, lots of Steelers websites that are not run by belligerent Steeler fanboys (like Steelers Lounge, Steelers Depot, and NFL from the Sidelines) have much more sober and reasonable views on Arians that don't include pegging him as mentally handicapped or the antichrist. Nobody actually tries to argue that he's an offensive guru or doesn't have flaws, but people that act like he's the only reason the Steelers haven't won the super bowl every year since 2007 are clueless.

Bayz101
05-12-2012, 05:32 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lxZNM0Lf6sw/TyCYkBktTDI/AAAAAAAABGQ/pvMNgD5xAJ0/s1600/BA2.jpg


"Mumble into headset, see what they come up with." :rofl:

Whodis
05-12-2012, 08:34 AM
http://images.borders.com.au/images/bau/97817403/9781740311229/0/0/plain/football-for-dummies.jpg

lloydwoodson
05-12-2012, 08:41 AM
Yeah, lots of Steelers websites that are not run by belligerent Steeler fanboys (like Steelers Lounge, Steelers Depot, and NFL from the Sidelines) have much more sober and reasonable views on Arians that don't include pegging him as mentally handicapped or the antichrist. Nobody actually tries to argue that he's an offensive guru or doesn't have flaws, but people that act like he's the only reason the Steelers haven't won the super bowl every year since 2007 are clueless.

I think the reason people have such a strong reaction to Arians is because he changed the Steelers offensive identity from what it has always been. Arians and the Steelers fanbase had divergent offensive philosophies, and the sum of disappointing third and shorts and failed redzone attempts coalesced into one public opinion whereby Arians was held to be negligent of the inveterate Steeler power offense- I don't think that makes anyone a "fanboy." :toofunny:

Dalarin
05-12-2012, 09:56 PM
I think Arians was good at developing Ben and great at picking up large chunks of yardage, but hevwas predictable and bullheaded. There are coordinators that would do worse than him but i think the list is longer for those who could do better.

Steelersfan87
05-13-2012, 01:23 AM
i think the list is longer for those who could do better.

Given the number of offensive coordinators despised by their fanbase and the even greater number that are unemployed or have been reduced to college or assistant/position coach roles, I would seriously question this.

MACH1
05-13-2012, 02:05 AM
Given the number of offensive coordinators despised by their fanbase and the even greater number that are unemployed or have been reduced to college or assistant/position coach roles, I would seriously question this.

And thats why teams were lined up at arians door all those years trying to nab him away from the Steelers. :doh:

Steelersfan87
05-13-2012, 03:37 AM
Your point would be more meaningful if he was unemployed for even a week.

Whodis
05-13-2012, 08:22 AM
I guess we will know soon enough... I'll be the first to say I was wrong if BA excels in Indy.

mikeyg
05-13-2012, 09:09 AM
ive been saying it for years. fire arians

it's unfortunate that he's going to ruin andrew luck's career

ARIANS SUCKS! He should have been fired Sat night after that dispeciable loss to JAX in the 2007 playoffs - period.

He is a complete DOLT in my book - less brains and creativity than i have in my little pinky.

mikeyg
05-13-2012, 09:16 AM
I guess we will know soon enough... I'll be the first to say I was wrong if BA excels in Indy.

BA has only 'excelled' in one place - here - that is b/c he had a great QB and D to keep him in games.

he sucked............he'll fail in indy

Steel Peon
05-13-2012, 12:33 PM
Fans have been complaining for years about how predictable Bruce Arians was with the Steelers scheme.......................We have all of these weapons and yet we can not score points. This makes sense as to why now.

This looks like a job for the "No-Shit Committee."

"Ok everybody, let's all go on 3, ready? 1....2......3." "NO SHIT!!!!" :doh:

Whodis
05-13-2012, 02:34 PM
I'm more disturbed at Ben's constant jabs at the front office for not retaining him. Like you didn't see it coming for the last 3 years?

TheVet
05-13-2012, 04:33 PM
I think the reason people have such a strong reaction to Arians is because he changed the Steelers offensive identity from what it has always been. I don't think that's the reason at all. If Arians had installed a different, but effective offense, then there wouldn't have been a problem. Fans here know good football, and they know that we weren't seeing it on offense during the Arians run.

The Rooneys knew it, too. They're a patient lot, but they've been gradually signalling that things had to improve. It was embarrassing for the team. At some point, enough is enough.

I think Arians was good at developing Ben and great at picking up large chunks of yardage, but hevwas predictable and bullheaded.
Unfortunately, Arians has failed to develop Ben. One of the reasons to have a competent OC is to get Ben back on the track that he should be on. It's a crime to waste such great raw material; Ben could be an all-time great with the right coaching.

I'm more disturbed at Ben's constant jabs at the front office for not retaining him. Like you didn't see it coming for the last 3 years?
Ben's a great QB, but he has no idea what he's been missing.

Hawaii 5-0
05-13-2012, 07:42 PM
Mehno: Is Tomlin making a mistake?

Posted: Saturday, May 12, 2012
John Mehno j

Is Mike Tomlin repeating one of the legendary mistakes in Steelers history?

Tomlin hired Todd Haley as offensive coordinator in February, a big change after five years of Bruce Arians. Haley is the first coordinator in 13 years hired from outside the organization.

Tomlin is also requiring the team to learn Haley's terminology.

This is no small matter. Imagine trying to give someone directions if left was now right and vice versa. How easily could you do simple math problems if the value of six was now seven? Could you make change quickly if dimes were now called quarters?

That's what happens when new systems are installed. The simple solution is to have the new coach adapt to what the players have been using.

Chuck Noll hired Joe Walton as his offensive coordinator in 1990 and decided the Steelers would learn Walton's language.

The players, led by Bubby Brister, rebelled, and things were never quite right. Noll retired after the 1991 season.

There's always a sentiment for showing highly paid players who's the boss, but why have 25 people adapt when it would be easier to have one coach make the switch?
Change is always difficult, made even tougher when people aren't speaking the same language.

http://www.timesonline.com/sports/local_sports/mehno-is-tomlin-making-a-mistake/article_e789a748-470f-550c-a704-01e3828ef79e.html

Steel Peon
05-13-2012, 09:10 PM
The players, led by Bubby Brister, rebelled, and things were never quite right. Noll retired after the 1991 season.

First of all, Ben is no Bubby, and thank God for that. They're both bullheaded and opinionated, but that's where the similarities end. No one liked Bubby, and most people like Ben, but I don't think either of them could initiate a mutiny, and from what I remember it was Bubby who was thrown under the bus, and not Noll.

Second, this is also assuming the team, or more specifically the offense, doesn't want to change, which it seems they most certainly do. The only guy that didn't want BA to go was Ben, who we all know were/are buddies, who did what they both wanted to do, which was an attempt to turn Ben into a pocket passing, bomb dropping, gun-slinger of a QB, and that's been shown lately to simply not work out consistently enough.

Third, most fans are behind the change, and mostly all agree that the offense could be a lot better. Even the fans who aren't die-hard know exactly what play is coming next, and how to stop it, and even they're sick of looking like they're paying attention.

TheVet
05-13-2012, 09:44 PM
I'll have to remember that name, John Mehno. Don't want to waste any time on similar drivel.

Sixburgher
05-13-2012, 10:16 PM
I'll have to remember that name, John Mehno. Don't want to waste any time on similar drivel.

Like it or not, he makes some valid points.

TheVet
05-13-2012, 10:24 PM
I didn't notice any valid points. It's possible to make an argument against the change, but he didn't do it.

If we were starting from a working system, that would be one thing. But we've got a dysfunctional hodgepodge, and so his analogies are all laughably bogus.

One suspects that Mr. Mehno doesn't know the subject matter. How else to explain such a superficial article? He should do his homework first.

Sixburgher
05-13-2012, 11:22 PM
I didn't notice any valid points.

Try reading it again. Slower this time.

lloydwoodson
05-14-2012, 01:59 AM
I don't think that's the reason at all. If Arians had installed a different, but effective offense, then there wouldn't have been a problem. Fans here know good football, and they know that we weren't seeing it on offense during the Arians run.

The Rooneys knew it, too. They're a patient lot, but they've been gradually signalling that things had to improve. It was embarrassing for the team. At some point, enough is enough.

Last year the offense was 12th in total offense, 1st in TOP and 1st in 3rd down %. It was not the worst offense in the league. As a fan I did not like the way in which he got average results. I hated empty backfields on 3rd and 1. I miss the smashmouth running game, but I really don't think the offense got to the point of being embarassing.

You probably have other people to respond to for acting like a know-it-all, and claiming any offensive coordinator who can't have a top 5 offense with greatest-quarterback-of-all-time-Ben-Roethlisberger is a complete idiot... so I'll let you get to it.

VaDave
05-14-2012, 08:57 AM
These guys ( Sanders, Roethisberger) are pros and better get this system down. It's their job. I'm certain they will be productive when the time comes.

As for BA, there wasn't much of anything to indicate he was a great coach before he was hired, and after 7 years here in the burgh, there is still little evidence that he was anything more than that.

mikegrimey
05-14-2012, 09:15 AM
Last year the offense was 12th in total offense, 1st in TOP and 1st in 3rd down %. It was not the worst offense in the league. As a fan I did not like the way in which he got average results. I hated empty backfields on 3rd and 1. I miss the smashmouth running game, but I really don't think the offense got to the point of being embarassing.

You probably have other people to respond to for acting like a know-it-all, and claiming any offensive coordinator who can't have a top 5 offense with greatest-quarterback-of-all-time-Ben-Roethlisberger is a complete idiot... so I'll let you get to it.

How many times did we run a 5-wide/empty-backfield on 3 and 1?

I ask because everybody makes it sound like it was a common occurrence, but I can't remember any specific instances other than the game in Cleveland in December 2009. I recall a lot of runs on 3 and 1 in 2010 and 2011, Redman specifically took over that role.

ebsteelers
05-14-2012, 09:25 AM
consider as big a jaborni as arians was we still played in 2 super bowls with him as oc.


imagine what we could do with a oc with a clue

SteeleReign
05-14-2012, 10:44 AM
I think much of the success of this new playbook falls directly on BB. Obviously, his game performance, but more importantly, how hard he works to embrace the change in the film room & during camp.

Although our defense is nearing antique status, the offense is trending much younger. It's imperative that Ben finally grows up and shows the leadership needed to tackle this new playbook. The young o-line and receiving corp will be following his lead.

As much as I don't think BA was all to blame, I also don't see Haley as the sole fix to our offensive issues. I truly believe that Big Ben's maturity through this change will determine Haley's success.

steelfury02
05-14-2012, 02:18 PM
for me, it was responding with arrogance when asked about the utilization of the run-game that told me all I needed to know about Arians

to paraphrase, and I believe it was about their running backs in general, could be wrong but:

"They'll get more touches when they prove they can run the ball better."

A sizable chunk of Steeler nation, safe to say, believes that Arians set up this offense(more particularly the run game) to fail by calling runs that didn't play to the strengths of the running backs, or negate the weaknesses of the offensive line, nor was the running "imaginative" as many fans would have wished it to be - basically meaning there was nothing that "exposed" defenses. I saw only one instance where (yea, not an expert, no need to quantify anything on a post) I thought Arians actually called a great running game - against the Jets in the AFC champ game. Yes - players have to play - but that was the type of situational running that I think we've been missing - not necessarily more, just more useful running. Will IT always work? What is IT? IT to me means = offense scoring more from 20 yards out and I don't care how we do it. Arians is polarizing because there is a perception, backed up by some head scratching quotes by him and Ben - about the way they thought it should be - including their supposed evidence of well "we had two 1000 yard receivers and a 1000 yard back so what's wrong?" Its like trying to state something is fine when its not - highlighting stats is for losers, which is what they were doing. There was no one willing to contest the two buddies and no one asked the tough question - "Why don't you think you are scoring more often in the red zone?" Or, they ask and they get a dumb answer from Arians including but not limited to "Well we call the right plays but the players still have to execute." Aside from stone hands and whiff a block Johnson, none of our strengths were played to - unless you call a bubble screen to a speedy receiver and hope for massive YAC a reusable asset that will win us the big games.

Its not news anymore - Arians is gone for a reason, and we all saw it coming, way ahead of time at the season-ending game at Cleveland where we lost on an empty set 3rd and 1 in terrible conditions, a play everyone from their sofa saw coming. We have become stale in critical situations and a challenge to Ben and the rest of the O guys is in order if we want #7 - time for them to live up to their potential. The defense has proven, and will be top 5 again - enough so to be a playoff caliber defense. The offense needs to match it now - enough excuses.

Steel Peon
05-14-2012, 03:04 PM
calling runs that didn't play to the strengths of the running backs, or negate the weaknesses of the offensive line, nor was the running "imaginative" as many fans would have wished it to be - basically meaning there was nothing that "exposed" defenses

You win.......this is precisely the reason that Willie Parker ran into one brick wall after another (until the wheels finally came off) under Arians, and why he exploded under Whisenhunt, who ran complex plays designed for the strengths of his players and exploited the weaknesses of his opponents. Even the overall strategy of Arians' run game relegated us to short yardage impotence because it lacked any sense of timing or disguising, forcing the offense to improvise over and over. I'm sure having the Bus back in '05 certainly contributed to us having a 100% conversion rate on 4th down, but Whiz knew where to stick him, and ever since both have departed, our short yardage ability has become a laughing stock.

Sixburgher
05-14-2012, 03:16 PM
You win.......this is precisely the reason that Willie Parker ran into one brick wall after another (until the wheels finally came off) under Arians, and why he exploded under Whisenhunt, who ran complex plays designed for the strengths of his players and exploited the weaknesses of his opponents.

Yeah, it had nothing to do with Hartings retiring and Faneca's departure. No, not at all. And never mind that Parker was leading the league in rushing in 2007 until he broke his leg against the Rams.

desertsteel
05-14-2012, 03:23 PM
TBH, I'm getting a little sick of Ben's passive-aggressive remarks about Haley and the new offense...

He whines about how difficult it is learning all new stuff then follows with how he's going to do whatever it takes... blah blah blah.... OK, we got it... your buddy Arians got fired... GET OVER IT and shut up and learn the offense!

Hawaii 5-0
05-14-2012, 04:41 PM
Haley’s Offensive System

by Neal Coolong on May 14

How different will offensive coordinator Todd Haley’s offense be from where it was last year? We’ve heard QB Ben Roethlisberger say it’s 90 percent different (S.W.A.G.), but he’s also talked about going no-huddle and getting the ball to the receivers.

Haley passes to set up the run, and the most obvious difference between the success he had in Kansas City (before he lost half his starters to injury) was the heavy involvement of his running backs. Maybe this is a chicken vs. the egg thing, but the Steelers have considerably more talent at WR than Haley had in Kansas City. Is he just going to ignore that? And if he doesn’t, isn’t he just sitting on much of what they did last year?

I understand it’s early, and you have to take what Roethlisberger said with a grain of salt (if you really want to get picky, you could say the offense changing "90 percent" would probably mean the Steelers are running a wishbone this season, and removing Roethlisberger for an as-of-now-unidentified quarterback in short yardage situations). What exactly is going to be different?

One guess I would make would be less of a priority on high-to-low reads from Roethlisberger and more of an open look for him with more option routes from the receivers.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2012/5/14/3019679/Pittsburgh-steelers-news-update-todd-haley-offense-mike-wallace-ben-roethlisberger

El-Gonzo Jackson
05-14-2012, 06:14 PM
I'm interested to see what Haley does with TE's like Saunders and Paulsen when they eventually hit the field. Both are good receivers and can be used to stretch the LB's down the seams.

BKAnthem
05-14-2012, 11:32 PM
Those plays were still in the playbook, Numb-nuts just never called them during games, or he called those ugly bubble-screens to his slowest receiver. We sort of abandoned RB screens years ago under Cowher, because Willie Parker SUCKED as a screen back.

No they weren't...when Arians took over he and Ben went through the Playbook and took out plays that stopped being used, and took out others Ben didn't like...and inserted his Cleveland browns plays (the very plays that got him fired under Romeo Crennel) and Viola!

lloydwoodson
05-15-2012, 12:16 AM
How many times did we run a 5-wide/empty-backfield on 3 and 1?

I ask because everybody makes it sound like it was a common occurrence, but I can't remember any specific instances other than the game in Cleveland in December 2009. I recall a lot of runs on 3 and 1 in 2010 and 2011, Redman specifically took over that role.

Here is a quote from the Patriots game last season "One of the keys to the victory was the Steelers performance with an empty backfield. Roethlisberger went 12-for-15 in empty-set formations, with six of the completions netting at least 10 yards, and nine of them resulting in first downs. All of those were personal bests since ESPN Stats & Information began tracking such things in 2008."

So that is 15 empty-backfield plays in one game. Not sure about the down or yardage from this. The philosophy is the same. Isn't it better to at least have the threat of a run? Apparently it does not matter. Empty backfield personally pisses me off even if it works.

Steelersfan87
05-15-2012, 12:45 AM
Empty backfield personally pisses me off even if it works.

Well...that sounds like a personal problem.

Fire Arians
05-15-2012, 01:59 AM
Here is a quote from the Patriots game last season "One of the keys to the victory was the Steelers performance with an empty backfield. Roethlisberger went 12-for-15 in empty-set formations, with six of the completions netting at least 10 yards, and nine of them resulting in first downs. All of those were personal bests since ESPN Stats & Information began tracking such things in 2008."

So that is 15 empty-backfield plays in one game. Not sure about the down or yardage from this. The philosophy is the same. Isn't it better to at least have the threat of a run? Apparently it does not matter. Empty backfield personally pisses me off even if it works.

works against the pats cause their pass rush is actually sadder than the steelers o-line was

Edman
05-15-2012, 11:43 AM
And yet the Steelers Offense only scored 6 points the entire second half in that game and the game went down to the wire. 427 yards of offense and only 23 points to show for it.

Figure that out. There's no need to figure it out, because that's how the Arians Offense works. Lots of yards but paltry scoring.

TheVet
05-15-2012, 04:21 PM
And yet the Steelers Offense only scored 6 points the entire second half in that game and the game went down to the wire. 427 yards of offense and only 23 points to show for it.

Figure that out. There's no need to figure it out, because that's how the Arians Offense works. Lots of yards but paltry scoring.


Exactly. It's eye-opening to see how many here are all about the stats, while the rest of us are actually watching the games and cringing at the lack of effective schemes. Thankfully the Rooneys watch the games.

Well stat-boys, an NFL offense is coming to Pittsburgh next year, whether you like it or not!

Kingmagyar
05-15-2012, 04:44 PM
Yeah I could never figure out telling a defense it's a PASS! WE'RE GOING TO PASS! Talk about making a defense's job easier with the empty set.

Steel Peon
05-15-2012, 06:58 PM
Yeah, it had nothing to do with Hartings retiring and Faneca's departure. No, not at all. And never mind that Parker was leading the league in rushing in 2007 until he broke his leg against the Rams.

While I'm not going to totally disagree with you, because most everything you said was true, I will say that it was Willie alone who was earning all those yards, while getting barely any help at all. I remember very vividly the problems Willie was having that year with getting penetration, and having to hustle his ass off to make any yardage. In fact, even after being the rushing leader at that point, he was only able to score 2 TDs all season because of the problems with the O-line giving him any openings, especially in the red zone. At about the same time that Tomlin was answering many questions about these failings, he issued his famous "We're going to run Willie until the wheels fall off" statement. This also happened to be Arians' first year as OC, and there was already a lot of complaining about play calling, even right up to the final offensive play of the season, lovingly referred to by many as the "Arians Abortion."

http://www.stillers.com/articles/2211.aspx

Yeah, losing Hartings and Faneca had a factor in this, but I could tell immediately that something with our offense was wrong, and I actually hoped Arians would be fired after his 1st season. It seemed like practice for the O-line consisted too much of falling back to block, and not enough pushing forward in order to open up the running lanes. The advent of the empty set, and the total erasure of screen passes from the play book also stifled the offense to the point of fan bewilderment. Quite simply, the Steelers' offense looked like a giant game of vanilla grab-ass week in and week out, and I hoped I'd seen the last of that.

Now, a lot of Arians apologists will then point to the following season of 2008 as an example of his offense at it's peak, but then I'm afraid you'd be telling me that he intentionally, A) had Ben improvising on almost every play, B) wanted us to have virtually no run game, and C) planned on running the 2 min offense to save our asses every game, which doesn't sound very logical. Ben deserves most of the credit for that year's offense, with Heath's, Holmes', and Hines' YAC abilities doing the rest. Giving Arians' any credit for the things listed above actually diminishes his cred as a competent OC.

Hawaii 5-0
05-16-2012, 02:50 AM
The Pittsburgh Steelers Will Have the AFC North's Best Offense in 2012

By Andrea Hangst (AFC North Lead Blogger) on May 15, 2012

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/images/photos/001/701/979/136213451_crop_650x440.jpg?1337118996

ll four teams in the AFC North are set to have much-improved offenses in 2012, but the Pittsburgh Steelers will remain the best on that side of the ball. In both the passing and running games, the Steelers will look a bit different, but that will only serve to make one of the league's strongest offenses that much stronger.

The Steelers finished the 2011 season 10th overall in average passing yards per game and 14th overall in rushing yards. The latter number was a bit of a disappointment for a team that has historically been known for its running attack. However, their successes in the passing department mitigated that downturn well enough to help the team have yet another playoff year.

The one area in which the Steelers were even more disappointing last year was in points per game. The Steelers averaged 20.3 points per game—good for 21st in the league—while both the Cincinnati Bengals and the Baltimore Ravens outscored them by one and two points per game, respectively.

The Steelers relied a bit more heavily on their top-notch defense to keep opponents' scores low, rather than making a splash in the end zone of their own. Pittsburgh clearly struggled in the red zone last year, scoring touchdowns just over 50 percent of the time for the season. That number dips to 41 percent of the time in away games.

This downturn makes it seem like the Steelers have embarked on an offensive slide that could easily extend to their 2012 season. However, I don't see that being the case.

The Steelers' relatively minor offensive struggles last season could be blamed on a few factors—mainly the offensive line and the play-calling of coordinator Bruce Arians.

The offensive line suffered from a number of injuries that required the Steelers to field 25 different combinations of linemen last season, so it's no surprise that quarterback Ben Roethlisberger was sacked 40 times or that the run game struggled to take off. Combine that with Arians' penchant for slow-developing plays and predictable calls when in the red zone, and it's easy to see why the Steelers didn't perform as well as players' individual statistics would indicate.

Despite those issues, the Steelers have managed to build one of the best receiving corps in the league. Roethlisberger's development has been aided immeasurably by the talents of his top-two targets, Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown, who both ended the season with more than 1,000 receiving yards apiece.

If Wallace and Browns are as deadly a tandem this year, while Roethlisberger benefits from the added protection of what appears to be a much-improved offensive line (thanks to the team drafting guard David DeCastro in the first round and tackle Mike Adams in the second), the Steelers will once again end the season as a top-10, or even top-five, passing offense.

The run game should be far stronger than it was last season as well, though the Steelers will be without starting running back Rashard Mendenhall for most, if not all, of the year.

With Todd Haley as offensive coordinator, they should be able to maximize the strengths of the five backs currently on the roster, rotating them in and out as the situation warrants and ultimately being both more efficient and effective on the ground. The improvements on offensive line only help these efforts along.

In 2012, the Steelers offense should be not only stronger than it was last season, it should also be more well-balanced. Thanks to Roethlisberger, their receivers and a revitalized run game helmed by a new coordinator, Pittsburgh should emerge as the top offensive team in the AFC North.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1184577-the-pittsburgh-steelers-will-have-the-afc-norths-best-offense-in-2012

Hawaii 5-0
05-16-2012, 10:21 PM
Transition Is Hard, but the Pittsburgh Steelers Won't Miss Bruce Arians in 2012

By Andrea Hangst (AFC North Lead Blogger) on May 16, 2012


Just because Ben Roethlisberger gave Bruce Arians his continued support doesn't mean the Steelers should have kept him around.

Change is inevitable in the NFL, even for a team like the Pittsburgh Steelers that doesn't see much of it.

This has been a tumultuous offseason for the Steelers. Not only did they cut many of their veteran starters in order to get under the salary cap, the team chose to move on from long-time offensive coordinator Bruce Arians, hiring Todd Haley in his place.

While the removal of Arians had many Steelers fans sighing with relief, it's not so cut-and-dry for the players who have been relying on a familiar system since 2007, when Arians was promoted to offensive coordinator after serving as wide receivers coach.

It's especially rough for quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, who is still admittedly confused by both Haley's new playbook and Haley's plans for the offense as a whole.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/430/845/143821727_crop_340x234.jpg?1337201244

Todd Haley's coaching philosophy differs from Arians', but that doesn't mean the end product will be extremely different

Though Roethlisberger still has yet to grasp what Haley has planned—and the team has yet to really work through any of his plays or terminology on the practice field—there's little to worry about. The Steelers will ultimately be better off with Haley as their offensive coordinator than they were with Arians.

Arians fit the Steelers for a time. But the Steelers are now a different team with different needs. Arians did a good job boosting their passing game and developing Roethlisberger into the player he is now, but it's time to evolve.

Under Arians, the Steelers offense became predictable. First-down runs, bubble screens to nowhere and stalled red zone drives became more and more common and didn't fit in with the Steelers' increasingly strong passing game.

Haley's approach is less rigid than Arians'. He's been known for both his strong running offenses (in Kansas City) as much as for his big-play passing games (with the Arizona Cardinals) and crafts his plays to best fit the talent he has available.

This means that the Steelers may run the ball the same amount they did under Arians, but just in different circumstances, to different ends. The same goes for the passing game, which, according to Roethlisberger, will include increased focus on the no-huddle and overall ramping up the speed of the game.

The one major change to expect in the Steelers offense under Haley is the running backs' involvement in the passing game. Dave Bryan of SteelersDepot.com took a look at just how often Haley used running backs in the passing game as compared to Arians, and it's very clear Haley wants backs to catch more passes than Arians did.

You could see the setup for this change in the Steelers' approach to last month's draft when they selected hybrid back/receiver Chris Rainey in the fifth round. Rainey has many traits in common with a Haley product from Kansas City, Dexter McCluster, and will likely be used in a similar manner.

The bottom line is that Arians relied on the strength of his play-calling to lead the Steelers offense rather than lend more weight to the strength of the Steelers offensive roster.

Haley will take the latter approach, meaning that the passing game will continue to be a major focal point of the team's offense this year—it's just too good to reign in—but he will also try to use perhaps all five of the Steelers running backs to their full effectiveness as well.

No, the Steelers offense wasn't broke, but that doesn't mean it didn't need fixing, or changing or ratcheting up. Haley's presence on the coaching staff will require everyone to make a transition, and it's happening whether the players are comfortable with it or not.

The ultimate success or failure of the change will have to wait until the season starts. However, I don't believe the Steelers made a bad decision by moving away from Arians nor by hiring Haley. This was just the shot in the arm Pittsburgh's offense needed.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1185842-transition-is-hard-but-the-pittsburgh-steelers-wont-miss-bruce-arians-in-2012

Steelersfan87
05-17-2012, 12:46 AM
That's probably the most coherent and well-written article on the subject I've seen yet. Thanks for sharing.

Hawaii 5-0
05-17-2012, 07:15 PM
MarkKaboly_Trib via twitter:

RT “@E_Sanders88: This new playbook is something serious!!!!! Bout to go old-school and make some flashcards.”

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/

TheVet
05-17-2012, 07:40 PM
That article was far too generous to the incompetent Arians, in my humble opinion, but I suppose the blogger sees no point in piling on. We all know what happened - an old-fashioned firing for good cause after repeated warnings.

Arians did a good job boosting their passing game and developing Roethlisberger into the player he is now, but it's time to evolve.

Ugggggh, what an idiotic comment. One of the reasons for the Arians firing is the total failure to develop Ben. After 8 years, he's still excellent raw material. Imagine where he'd be with the benefit of an OC. Thankfully, the best is yet to come.

Hawaii 5-0
05-18-2012, 07:21 PM
FRIDAY, 18 MAY 2012

WRITTEN BY ED BOUCHETTE

--- After the 2009 season, in an interview with me, Art Rooney said a few things that got some notice. The one that received the most attention was him saying he felt there should be more attention paid to the running game. The one that did not get quite as much notice was him saying they should develop their young players more quickly. Since then, they have started two rookies in the offensive line, Maurkice Pouncey and Marcus Gilbert. They have quickly developed and used three young receivers – Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders. And now they’ve virtually pencilled two rookies into the starting offensive line, David DeCastro and Mike Adams.

Was someone listening to the team president? And, because he obviously felt he did not follow his wishes in the running game, coordinator Bruce Arians was fired (oops, sorry, his contract was not renewed).

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/116414-ed-steelers-all-defense-team-of-21st-c

tony hipchest
05-19-2012, 08:31 PM
FRIDAY, 18 MAY 2012

WRITTEN BY ED BOUCHETTE

--- After the 2009 season, in an interview with me, Art Rooney said a few things that got some notice. The one that received the most attention was him saying he felt there should be more attention paid to the running game. The one that did not get quite as much notice was him saying they should develop their young players more quickly. Since then, they have started two rookies in the offensive line, Maurkice Pouncey and Marcus Gilbert. They have quickly developed and used three young receivers – Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders. And now they’ve virtually pencilled two rookies into the starting offensive line, David DeCastro and Mike Adams.

Was someone listening to the team president? And, because he obviously felt he did not follow his wishes in the running game, coordinator Bruce Arians was fired (oops, sorry, his contract was not renewed).

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/116414-ed-steelers-all-defense-team-of-21st-ci actually quoted ron cook quoting this article in one of the OL threads.

arians was cocky and defiant which is exactly why his services retained. the worst was when arians tried telling the media what art II really meant when he said to run the ball more efficiently.

dont EVER speak for your boss or try to clarify what they said to the media. the owner was pretty calculated in his remarks. hes a lawyer for gods sakes.

Steelersfan87
05-19-2012, 10:39 PM
Well, I think the bottom line is that he would still be here regardless of what he said if his offense scored more points. There just wasn't enough production, for many reasons.

lloydwoodson
05-21-2012, 01:39 AM
That article was far too generous to the incompetent Arians, in my humble opinion, but I suppose the blogger sees no point in piling on. We all know what happened - an old-fashioned firing for good cause after repeated warnings.



Ugggggh, what an idiotic comment. One of the reasons for the Arians firing is the total failure to develop Ben. After 8 years, he's still excellent raw material. Imagine where he'd be with the benefit of an OC. Thankfully, the best is yet to come.

You are wrong. Ben is as good now as he will ever be. Ben was Arians biggest supporter. It does not make sense to say that Roethlisberger is better off without Arians when he clearly disagrees with you. Your argument is invalid unless you know more about football than Roethlisberger does.

Millers the sh!t
05-21-2012, 01:49 AM
Can't wait for this season to start. So many great changes being made. It's either gonna be a great season for us, or a slow painful learning from mistakes season. Steelers have a lot to learn and a pretty tough schedule to learn it on.

The Arians/playbook change has been made and can only be a change for the good. If Ben puts on the time and hard work he'll be more efficient this half of his career than in the first half. I hope he welcomes the change with open arms an doesn't try to resist it.

I'm guessing lots and lots of running plays this season to allow Ben time to learn the new system.

I haven't been more excited for a new season than I am for this

tony hipchest
05-21-2012, 01:55 AM
I hope he welcomes the change with open arms an doesn't try to resist it.


this.

QFT

+1

...and all that good stuff. :hatsoff:

MasterOfPuppets
05-21-2012, 02:08 AM
You are wrong. Ben is as good now as he will ever be. Ben was Arians biggest supporter. It does not make sense to say that Roethlisberger is better off without Arians when he clearly disagrees with you. Your argument is invalid unless you know more about football than Roethlisberger does.
apparently mr rooney thinks ben will be better of without arians...:noidea:

TheVet
05-21-2012, 02:14 AM
You are wrong. Ben is as good now as he will ever be. Ben was Arians biggest supporter. It does not make sense to say that Roethlisberger is better off without Arians when he clearly disagrees with you. Your argument is invalid unless you know more about football than Roethlisberger does.
Thanks for pointing out that I'm wrong. Can you help me to understand?

Do you believe that a strong OC can't add value by challenging a QB to move out of his comfort zone and grow as a player? You don't think that Ben would do even better in a well-designed offense?

lloydwoodson
05-21-2012, 03:33 AM
Thanks for pointing out that I'm wrong. Can you help me to understand?

Do you believe that a strong OC can't add value by challenging a QB to move out of his comfort zone and grow as a player? You don't think that Ben would do even better in a well-designed offense?

Your whole argument centers around your belief that Ben is an elite qb who has had his talent squandered by the inept Bruce Arians. The elite player you are basing your argument on is against your opinion. Ben wanted Bruce to remain his OC. You are going to be sorely disappointed next season when Ben is not league MVP.

pancake
05-21-2012, 04:18 AM
I keep hearing how Rainey will be our Dexter McCluster... I'm not sure that's a big deal. lol

Steeldude
05-21-2012, 05:30 AM
apparently mr rooney thinks ben will be better of without arians...:noidea:

The question is can BR grasp a playbook with more than 4 plays in it?

Hawaii 5-0
05-21-2012, 08:21 PM
Roethlisberger Says He’s Lost Weight, Thinks Wallace Needs To Get His Fair Market Value

Monday, May 21st, 2012 by Dave Bryan

Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger took part in the Hoge Starks Celebrity Golf Classic on Monday, put on by former Steelers Merril Hoge and Max Starks, and he talked to the media for a little while prior to the event.

Roethlisberger was asked if the OTA sessions that get underway on Tuesday are the most critical that he can remember because of the hiring of new offensive coordinator Todd Haley and Roethlisberger replied, "It is. In a way I feel like a rookie again in a veteran's body. It's kind of anxious, excited. I don't know of a time that I've been more focused on an offense because last year it was ours, me and B.A. (Bruce Arians) were tweaking things and making stuff our own, but now I'm just trying to learn something new." Roethlisberber also added, "I'm thankful to have Charlie (Charlie Batch) and Byron (Byron Leftwich) back because not only are they great players, but we coach ourselves, we help each other out. So we're all in this together and Coach Randy (Randy Fichtner), my quarterback coach, has just been tremendous. So just super excited to get out there tomorrow and get going."

Roethlisberger was also asked how he is feeling health wise right now and if he has lost any weight to which the Steelers quarterback replied, "Good. I feel really well. I have lost quite a few pounds just to help get that ankle healed up quick and the shoulder feels good and we'll get out there and see, hopefully I'm not going to get hit any time soon, so we're going to be alright."

With wide receiver Mike Wallace still unsigned, Roethlisberger was asked about how critical of situation it is that his receiver will not be present this week and if it is just part of the business. Roethlisberger defended both sides of the situation when he said, "Well its definitely part of the business. I want Mike there because for one, Mike's a great friend and he's a great player and we need him and we want him. But he's got to do what's best for him. There's no point in just jumping in to just take the first offer out there. He needs to get his fair market value and I think that it will get done and I think Mike is doing it the right way and the Rooneys and the Steelers are doing it their way."

Roethlisberger, as you can imagine, was asked about his relationship with Haley and how the two are getting along. Roethlisberger answered, "Yeah, we're great. People blew it way out of proportion. Its just something new that we're getting to know each other." Roethlisberger added, "There's no trouble between us at all."

As far as the appearance he has given that he does not like the new playbook, Roethlisberger said, "Its just something new. It's change, it's different. Doesn't mean that it is good or bad. We're just learning something new. You know when you get a comfort level of like eight years in the same thing and then you change it, its just something different. I'm not saying I don't like the playbook or anything like that. Some of the stuff, the concepts are awesome, it's just getting an understanding of something new."

After being asked about the linemen the Steelers drafted last month Roethlisberger was asked how it feels to be a college graduate now to which he quickly shot back, "I feel so smart right now." He later added that it is not helping in the classroom right now though as far as learning the new offense.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/05/roethlisberger-says-hes-lost-weight-thinks-wallace-needs-to-get-his-fair-market-value/

lloydwoodson
05-21-2012, 08:38 PM
Ben didn't say anything stupid that people could blow out of proportion.

:tt04::tt02::tt04::tt02::tt04::tt02:

TheVet
05-21-2012, 09:15 PM
Your whole argument centers around your belief that Ben is an elite qb who has had his talent squandered by the inept Bruce Arians. The elite player you are basing your argument on is against your opinion. Ben wanted Bruce to remain his OC. You are going to be sorely disappointed next season when Ben is not league MVP.

Ben has too many of the great unteachable qualities to be anything other than an elite QB. The question is whether he will be challenged to be as good as he can be. But LOL, he's certainly not an MVP without improvement. He needs an OC that will demand the growth, and then he needs to actually man up and do the work.

As for Ben wanting Arians to remain, that's understandable at this point. Let's see whether Ben grows after the enabling relationship is removed.

Blackout
05-21-2012, 10:12 PM
On Haley, "Yeah, we're great. People blew it way out of proportion. Its just something new that we're getting to know each other." Roethlisberger added, "There's no trouble between us at all."

:applaudit::applaudit:

lloydwoodson
05-21-2012, 11:34 PM
Ben has too many of the great unteachable qualities to be anything other than an elite QB. The question is whether he will be challenged to be as good as he can be. But LOL, he's certainly not an MVP without improvement. He needs an OC that will demand the growth, and then he needs to actually man up and do the work.

As for Ben wanting Arians to remain, that's understandable at this point. Let's see whether Ben grows after the enabling relationship is removed.

Roethlisberger has had a couple off years statistically but has enjoyed success since he entered the league with a variety of coaches. Roethlisberger is a probowler and an 8 year veteran. I am not sure how much better you think he can be. I do know that I find your assessment of Ben as both "an elite QB" and "not an MVP without improvement" to be a contradiction. I am a bit confused at this point.

TheVet
05-22-2012, 12:14 AM
Your whole argument centers around your belief that Ben is an elite qb who has had his talent squandered by the inept Bruce Arians. The elite player you are basing your argument on is against your opinion. Ben wanted Bruce to remain his OC. You are going to be sorely disappointed next season when Ben is not league MVP.

Ben has too many of the great unteachable qualities to be anything other than an elite QB. The question is whether he will be challenged to be as good as he can be. But LOL, he's certainly not an MVP without improvement. He needs an OC that will demand the growth, and then he needs to actually man up and do the work.

As for Ben wanting Arians to remain, that's understandable at this point. Let's see whether Ben grows after the enabling relationship is removed.

Roethlisberger has had a couple off years statistically but has enjoyed success since he entered the league with a variety of coaches. Roethlisberger is a probowler and an 8 year veteran. I am not sure how much better you think he can be. I do know that I find your assessment of Ben as both "an elite QB" and "not an MVP without improvement" to be a contradiction. I am a bit confused at this point.

Thank you for framing your question politely. Here's my best explanation:

I believe that Ben has all the great raw materials that can't be taught: athleticism, the great arm, the will-to-win, the toughness, the ability to put a team on his back and win a game by himself. In fact, his desire has been the essence of our entire offense. So, Ben has qualities that can't be ignored when discussing elite QBs. There's no QB that I'd rather have, especially on a team with a weak OL, and God knows we haven't seen anything like Ben in decades; it's wonderful to have him.

But I wouldn't put him at league MVP; I'd say he's around the edge of the top 5. The QBs ahead of him are those who have gone further in terms of their professional development, but none of them bring the raw package that Ben does.

The difference is that Ben hasn't had the benefit of an OC that will challenge him to develop his abilities further. And in fairness, Ben has to prove that he would do that work when challenged. I'm hoping that he will respond to the challenge and the opportunity; but even if he doesn't, he's an elite QB who will take us on quite a ride.

Your quote above might explain why we see the situation differently: "Your whole argument centers around your belief that Ben is an elite qb who has had his talent squandered by the inept Bruce Arians." I don't believe it's a matter of whether Ben's talent was used or squandered; it is surely being used. I believe that the OC should be nourishing it, developing it, growing it - that's the essence of coaching.

I believe that Ben could develop to the MVP level if he has the right coaching, and if he responds in the right way. I'm hoping it happens.

lloydwoodson
05-22-2012, 12:21 AM
Thank you for framing your question politely. Here's my best explanation:

I believe that Ben has all the great raw materials that can't be taught: athleticism, the great arm, the will-to-win, the toughness, the ability to put a team on his back and win a game by himself. In fact, his desire has been the essence of our entire offense. So, Ben has qualities that can't be ignored when discussing elite QBs. There's no QB that I'd rather have, especially on a team with a weak OL, and God knows we haven't seen anything like Ben in decades; it's wonderful to have him.

But I wouldn't put him at league MVP; I'd say he's around the edge of the top 5. The QBs ahead of him are those who have gone further in terms of their professional development, but none of them bring the raw package that Ben does.

The difference is that Ben hasn't had the benefit of an OC that will challenge him to develop his abilities further. And in fairness, Ben has to prove that he would do that work when challenged. I'm hoping that he will respond to the challenge and the opportunity; but even if he doesn't, he's an elite QB who will take us on quite a ride.

Your quote above might explain why we see the situation differently: "Your whole argument centers around your belief that Ben is an elite qb who has had his talent squandered by the inept Bruce Arians." I don't believe it's a matter of whether Ben's talent was used or squandered; it is surely being used. I believe that the OC should be nourishing it, developing it, growing it - that's the essence of coaching.

I think everyone would agree with your assessment- I know I do. Go Steelers!!! :tt02:

Hawaii 5-0
05-22-2012, 02:33 PM
Ben Roethlisberger: No trouble with Todd Haley

Posted by Josh Alper on May 22, 2012

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/benroethlisbergerbenroethlisbergerwifev22hbxjovqll .jpg?w=250

The Steelers gather for the start of organized team activities on Tuesday and all eyes will be on the offense.

It’s the first time new offensive coordinator Todd Haley will get to work with the entire offense on the field and the first time that we’ll see what kind of changes he plans after taking over from the fired Bruce Arians. It will also give us a chance to see how well Haley gets along with quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, a relationship that has already been heavily scrutinized.

The scrutiny started when Roethlisberger and Haley took a couple of weeks to meet for the first time after Haley got the job and continued this month when Roethlisberger said he was still “confused” about Haley’s plans for the offense. Roethlisberger spoke to KDKA TV in Pittsburgh on Monday and said that talk about a problematic relationship have been overblown.

“People blew it way out of proportion,” Roethlisberger said. “It’s something new, we’re getting to know each other … There’s no trouble between us at all. When you get a comfort level of like eight years of the same thing and then you change it, it’s just something different, so I’m not saying I don’t like the playbook or anything like that,” Roethlisberger said. “Some of the stuff is really – some of the concepts are awesome, it’s just getting an understanding of something new.”

One thing Haley did in both Arizona and Kansas City is build an offense centered around the team’s strengths. In Arizona, that was throwing the ball with Kurt Warner and Larry Fitzgerald while the Chiefs featured a run-heavy attack built around Jamaal Charles. Given the presence of Roethlisberger, Antonio Brown, Emmanuel Sanders and Mike Wallace (when he gets his contract squared away), it is hard to believe the Steelers will get too far away from the passing game they’ve employed in recent seasons.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/22/ben-roethlisberger-no-trouble-with-todd-haley/

lardlad
05-23-2012, 09:26 PM
Here is my beef. Situational football. Rarely did you come away thinking, wow great call at a key play. The safety we gave up against the Jets has to be the shiniest turd he ever came up with. Sure the lineman missed an assignment but it was a risky call. Key plays were the result of Ben pulling something out of his anus, never because BA busted up the defense, EVER.

My biggest beef is other than the NE game last year it NEVER looks like we have a plan. Every freakin play is pulled off by the skin of our teeth. And we sit there and say only Ben could have done that.

Between the 20's BA could light it up. When the field gets crowded, he is useless. How many 3rd and shorts with 5 wide receivers? And I swear, to beat BA, blitz on third down - sack, punt. Every effin play was designed to gain 30 yards.

Hawaii 5-0
05-23-2012, 11:57 PM
Players adjusting to Haley's offense

Teresa Varley - Steelers.com

Steelers’ players have gotten their first look at offensive coordinator Todd Haley’s playbook and so far they have been picking it up with ease.

“He has been making it simple for guys to understand,” said wide receiver Antonio Brown. “It’s been really fun. It was great to get out and start to run some of the plays. It’s going to be great when guys get on the same page and start executing it.”

Brown and fellow wide receiver Emmanuel Sanders have already dug deep into the playbook, and while they have work ahead of them, things are moving along well.

“It’s going to be a good year,” said Sanders. “I am loving the offense right now. It’s based off of play action. We have a lot more of the offense to put in, but right now we are heading in the right direction.”

One player who is going to be called to execute it right away is Isaac Redman, who will be the Steelers starting running back when the season opens with Rashard Mendenhall still working his way back from an ACL injury.

“For me, being in the league a couple of years now, I am picking it up faster than the younger guys,” said Redman. “It’s not too difficult for us. Everybody is out here working together, helping each other out, discussing things so that when the season comes around we should be clicking on all cylinders.”

Running back Baron Batch barely had a chance to learn Bruce Arians’offense last year before he was injured in training camp, missing the entire season. He likes the approach that Haley has brought to the offense, being a hands-on coach who is teaching as they go.

“It’s a learning process, but everyone is getting the hang of it and it almost flows easily as far as the no-huddle calls and just the way the numbering system works and the way the plays are called,” said Batch. “It’s easier for me to learn than some of the other offenses I have been in.

“I think Coach Haley does a really good job of explaining everything and being real hands on, showing what he wants done. When you have a coach like that players pick up on it quicker. He shows you how he wants it and I appreciate that.”

One noticeable change already made in the offense is moving Willie Colonfrom tackle to left guard. Colon is content with the change, and also likes the look of the new offense.

“From just being around him you can tell he is a passionate coach and strong minded,” said Colon. “I am not against change. It helps us explore different dynamics of what this offense can be. We know we can be a running team. That is our mold. We just have dynamic receivers and a great quarterback that we can throw the ball.

“He brings a great sense of balance and is going to feed to both of our strengths so it’s going to be exciting.”

http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Players-adjusting-to-Haleys-offense/bbdf40e4-c426-4c66-b1e8-57e7d8621c4f

Hawaii 5-0
05-30-2012, 03:00 PM
Rebel In The NFL: Run The Ball

Wednesday, May 30th, 2012 by Jeremy Hritz

Western Pennsylvania is a hard-nosed area, and its beloved football team, the Pittsburgh Steelers, embody that description. Traditionally, the Steelers have been known as three-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust team. Since Ben Roethlisberger has joined the team, the Steelers have slowly evolved into a pass-first offense, for better or for worse.

After the 2009 season when the Steelers finished 9-7 and missed the playoffs, Art Rooney II spoke out to the media that the team needed to make a greater commitment to the running game. The result was a rushing game that ranked 11th in the league with a little over 120 yards a game, which was eight spots better than where they finished in 2009, when they rushed for 112 yards a game. The year culminated with a spot in the Super Bowl. In 2011, the running game took a slight step back, but was very similar to the previous year at an average of 118.9 yards per game.

The ineffectiveness of the running game cannot completely be attributed to the apathy of former offensive coordinator Bruce Arians, as the ineptness of the offensive line has to be considered as well. However, the running game under Arians never provided for any rhythm, and running plays seemed to be called for their own sake rather than being part of an overall strategy to manipulate the defense.

Enter Todd Haley, a Pittsburgh native who understands the culture of the team and the city. If his inclusion of a fullback in the new offense tells us anything, it is that the Steelers are prioritizing the running game, and that Rooney may finally be getting his wish.

And refocusing on the run may be something that works in the Steelers favor in an NFL that has overdosed on the passing game.

As the majority of NFL teams play Indian and not chief, fewer and fewer teams boast an effective running game. With offensively-biased rules, the obsession with the passing game has influenced the way teams play defense, preferring personnel groupings that feature more defensive backs than defensive linemen or linebackers, potentially leaving them susceptible to the running game.

If Haley does in fact have the offense grounding and pounding, it could present many NFL defenses with a challenge that they may not be prepared for. This offense is not one dimensional, with explosive receivers like Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown, and as the running game lulls the defense to lethargy, the play action pass should be wide open for big plays.

By no means would it be safe to assume that the Steelers will be an exclusively run-first team as there is just too much offensive artillery on the field. Unlike Arians however, it is safe to assume that the prep work on the running game this summer will result in a component of the offense that can control the clock, convert third and short yardage situations, and score on the goal line, elements that have been tenuous under Arians.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/05/rebel-in-the-nfl-run-the-ball/

lardlad
05-30-2012, 07:28 PM
Arians had a play book? Wait in the pocket, scramble left scramble right throw. Or take a sack.

Fire Arians
05-30-2012, 08:14 PM
Arians had a play book? Wait in the pocket, scramble left scramble right throw. Or take a sack.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/399943_3234358735833_176464579_n.jpg

Hawaii 5-0
05-31-2012, 05:35 PM
you mean we won't be having as many 7-step drops? what a concept...

http://i.qkme.me/354bdx.jpg

Mark Kaboly ‏@MarkKaboly_Trib via twitter:

"I believe there are going to be a lot of quick-hitting passes from Haley this year to keep Ben clean. That's going to be a priority"

https://twitter.com/#!/MarkKaboly_Trib

Steelersfan87
06-05-2012, 01:41 PM
Chris Adamski ‏@BuzzsawPGH
Interesting quote, somewhat out of nowhere, from #Steelers T Marcus Gilbert: "I think this playbook is a lot better than last year's."

Fire Arians
06-05-2012, 01:45 PM
Chris Adamski ‏@BuzzsawPGH
Interesting quote, somewhat out of nowhere, from #Steelers T Marcus Gilbert: "I think this playbook is a lot better than last year's."

not surprising. to say a playbook is better than bruce arians is like saying a football team is better than cleveland

Steelersfan87
06-05-2012, 05:45 PM
Chris Adamski ‏@BuzzsawPGH
Interesting quote, somewhat out of nowhere, from #Steelers T Marcus Gilbert: "I think this playbook is a lot better than last year's."

Here's video of the quote.

http://www.steelers.com/video-and-audio/videos/Marcus-Gilbert-65/6fc22096-17e8-4d9a-bc56-b182c623cecb?SportsRoadhouse.com%2FSteelers=#?id=1 cbf17db-fa1e-43ad-b189-0159a9641087&channelName=Recent

Fire Arians
06-05-2012, 05:54 PM
if bruce arians' playbook was a turd, it would be like, the same thing.

tony hipchest
06-05-2012, 05:56 PM
if bruce arians' playbook was a turd, it would be like, the same thing.:poop::sofunny::sofunny::sofunny::poop:

FrancoLambert
06-05-2012, 06:37 PM
if bruce arians' playbook was a turd, it would be like, the same thing.

I object!

I think you guys are disrespecting turds

Hawaii 5-0
06-06-2012, 09:35 PM
Haley senses no concern in Roethlisberger over changes

Posted by Mike Florio on June 6, 2012

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/haley-e1339031144688.jpg?w=218

Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger has admitted from time to time that he was and still is concerned about the changes on offense in Pittsburgh. Offensive coordinator Todd Haley says that, if Roethlisberger is concerned, Haley hasn’t experienced it.

“I haven’t sensed any of that concern, at least me personally,” Haley said Wednesday, via the Associated Press. “He’s in here, he’s working hard. He’s into it — even the days when he hasn’t practiced, he’s over my shoulder, talking, commenting, discussing. That’s what I’ve seen out of all the good quarterbacks — really good quarterbacks — that I’ve been around act like.”

Still, Haley realizes that it’s natural to resist a new approach. “Change is not always comfortable, and we said that right out of the gate,” Haley said. “Sometimes when there are changes, that’s a way to keep guys on their toes and keep their focus on the understanding of what the goal is — and that is to win Super Bowls.”

It’s unclear how much the offense really will change. Amid reports and speculation that Roethlisberger will be expected to remain in the pocket in order to minimize the number of hits he takes, Haley says he won’t take away one of the quarterback’s strengths.

“It’s one of the best things he does, and it’s what separates him from all the other guys in the league for the most part,” Haley said. “So you don’t want to take that great ability away from him.”

More changes could be coming. Haley, who has a reputation for being a little intense (to say the least), says that he has yet to really get going. “I don’t flip that switch until a little later,” Haley said. “In training camp, we’ll pick it up a notch.”

So, basically, there’s still plenty of time for Ben to be flabbergasted.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/06/haley-senses-no-concern-in-roethlisberger-over-changes/

Atlanta Dan
06-07-2012, 12:13 PM
Chris Adamski ‏@BuzzsawPGH
Interesting quote, somewhat out of nowhere, from #Steelers T Marcus Gilbert: "I think this playbook is a lot better than last year's."

Given that Gilbert played for Urban Meyer at Florida, perhaps not surprising that he is looking forward to playing chess again after a year of playing checkers under the guidance of you know who

Hawaii 5-0
06-12-2012, 07:09 PM
Madden: Arians' firing makes little sense

By Mark Madden Times Sports Columnist
Jan. 24, 2012

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/timesonline.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/9/4a/94aac78b-0fed-5c97-88fd-3f92d8194fb7/4f1ceac1b7106.preview-300.jpg

Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, right, and offensive coordinator Bruce Arians talk on the sidelines.

Is Art Rooney II qualified to run a football team in any way that goes beyond his birthright?

That doesn’t matter. The birthright does.

That truth was held to be self-evident this past week as the Steelers president, after doing a round of media self-promotion, decided to use his thunderbolts to smite Bruce Arians, relieving the offensive coordinator of his duties.

The Steelers say Arians retired. That’s a lie. The Steelers decided to not renew his contract.

Head coach Mike Tomlin wanted Arians back, having reportedly told him that since the playoff loss at Denver. Quarterback Ben Roethlisberger is an Arians supporter and friend, having saved his job two years ago, and is said to be miffed that Arians got dismissed. Can’t wait to hear what Roethlisberger has to say at the Pro Bowl (where Arians and his wife will be Ben’s guest).

So, who’s left? General Manager Kevin Colbert? Colbert wouldn’t overrule Tomlin in this situation.

It looks like Rooney, after saying it was “Mike’s decision,” dropped the guillotine.

Why?

The Steelers’ red-zone efficiency was dismal at Denver, leaving lots of points on the table in the first quarter. But the Steelers’ defense was pathetic all day, adjusting not one bit as Tim Tebow carved them to ribbons. Arians is the scapegoat. Defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau is Teflon.

Looking at the regular season, the Steelers were 12th in the NFL in yards gained, just 21st in points. Not a good contrast. But the Steelers’ offense was doubtless hurt by a defense that collected just 15 takeaways, fewest in the league. The offense didn’t get many short fields, or easy points.

Receivers Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown each caught over 1,000 yards worth of passes. Roethlisberger threw for over 4,000. The Steelers sent four offensive players to Pro Bowl. That hadn’t happened since 2004.

You can’t knock the running game, either: It averaged 4.4 yards per carry, the best mark since 2001.

Looking at Arians’ five-year tenure, his offense helped the Steelers get to two Super Bowls, winning one. His successor will not have done that, or do that. Guaranteed.

Arians hasn’t always had the best players to work with, particularly on the line. When it comes to excellence, the Steelers spend on defense first. You can’t cook gourmet meals when half your ingredients are from 7-11. All things considered, Arians did fine.

Overachieved, even.

So why was Arians fired? For a few debatable play calls? Why not fire Tomlin for consistently poor clock management? Or LeBeau for the debacle at Denver?

Or why not leave pretty good alone? An early playoff exit aside, 12-4 is an excellent season.

This is bizarre. This seems like a decision made by a talk-show caller. Knee-jerk. Hasty. Against the grain.

In 2010, Rooney said that he wanted the Steelers to run more. This season, they ran on 43 percent of their offensive snaps. Is that enough? Arians is the man who minimized Steelers’ icon Hines Ward. Perhaps that didn’t sit well with upper management. Word is the Steelers may bring back Aaron Smith despite injuries that sidelined him for most of the last three seasons. Tradition counts.

Maybe it counts too much.

Maybe Rooney wants to pay Roethlisberger $102 million to hand off more.

Maybe Rooney wants to pound the ball on the ground, just like granddaddy’s team.

According to ESPN.com, sources say Arians was canned with an eye toward shifting “the offense back toward its blue-collar identity of years past, in line with the desires of Steelers president Art Rooney II.”

Anybody got Jerome Bettis’ number?

http://www.timesonline.com/sports/local_sports/madden-arians-firing-makes-little-sense/article_db288763-f407-5f4a-88a5-f669a8a9d08b.html

Fire Arians
06-12-2012, 07:18 PM
mark madden is stupid, and i think anyone who read that article is stupider after reading that crap

Hawaii 5-0
06-12-2012, 07:25 PM
mark madden is stupid, and i think anyone who read that article is stupider after reading that crap


believe it or not, Mark Madden has his followers who spew this crap out all of the time.

I don't really care what they think or say, I'm just glad Arians and his predictable play-calling are gone.

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/8546/ariansplaybook.jpg

StainlessStill
06-12-2012, 07:44 PM
The one major problem I had about Arians offense was actually defending it for simply waiting for it to break-out on a week to week basis. It really was a 2 steps forward, 5 steps back type offense week to week and just sitting there holding out hope we'd get consistency was frustrating. It never came. Were there some things good about Arians system? Of course, but you can't keep giving something a chance that has no proof of moving forward. Tape never lies to the regard on the field. Yards don't amount to points. Efficiency and consistency does and we had NONE of it.

Art II made the correct decision and I'll support it 100 times out of 100. I also think Tomlin picked the right guy for the job in Haley. I think we can literally be the most dangerous offense under Haley and that's just talking from an X & O's standpoint, not a personal standpoint. Our personal just has PHENOMENAL potential.

Just like the Arian days, I'll be expecting this offense to EXPLODE under Haley & say that with the utmost confidence. I could NEVER feel that within the Arians-era. That right there, is the difference.

EbonySteel86
06-12-2012, 09:05 PM
if bruce arians' playbook was a turd, it would be like, the same thing.

:applaudit::applaudit::applaudit:

TheVet
06-12-2012, 10:59 PM
Wow, that was a breathtakingly stupid article by Madden.

But I would really love to know whether Tomlin was in the "keep Arians" or "dump Arians" camp, and whether he recognized the OC incompetence problem back in 2008, where it was clearly in evidence, and whether he was applying pressure on Arians at that point.

I'm still left scratching my head wondering whether Tomlin has been part of the problem, or part of the solution, or both. But thanks to Rooney for putting an end to this embarrassing fiasco.

Steelboy84
06-13-2012, 02:28 PM
Steelers players reaction to Todd Haley’s playbook shows how weak Arians playbook was

May 11th, 2012

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Pittsburgh+Steelers+v+Kansas+City+Chiefs+gZ8Yd8iTm zrm.jpg

Todd Haley has handed out the Steelers new playbook. From the reaction of the players it is nothing like the playbook Bruce Arians has put out in the past. Ben Roethlisberger compared it to learning “Rosetta Stone”. That is expected when a new coordinator comes in. You get his playbook rather than the one you were using.

There were two comments though that stood out to me with the players talking about the new playbook. One was from Ben Roethlisberger and the other from Emmanuel Sanders.

Roethlisberger when asked about the similarities in the playbook:

“The similarities would be on a shorter list. Off the top of my head, from what I’ve seen so far, there’s a 90 percent change.”

Emmanuel Sanders tweet about the depth of the playbook:

This new playbook is something serious!!!!! Bout to go old-school and make some flashcards.

Both liken the playbook to a completely new world. It makes this playbook seem more in depth and brand new. A playbook from a new coach should be new but not 90% new. If the Steelers had a good playbook before it would be 50-60% new. The overall scheme may change some but the plays even with new terminology should not be that different. It should not be that out of the ordinary. These two guys saying it is tells us even more about Bruce Arians.

Fans have been complaining for years about how predictable Bruce Arians was with the Steelers scheme. We all knew what type of play was coming when the Steelers would line up on offense. So did our opponents. They knew where the ball was going before the ball was even snapped. It showed in our offense. It showed in Roethlisberger’s grimace when he would get hit. We have all of these weapons and yet we can not score points. This makes sense as to why now.

People questioned the offensive line. They questioned Ben Roethlisberger. They questioned the wide receivers. The main question they asked was why does Ben hold on to the ball so long and take hits? Yes the offensive line was inconsistent. Yes Ben likes to be a hero. No the receivers did not get open. Now we understand though that the receivers may have not been able to get open because Arians playbook was so easy to figure out that it took more time for them to get open. If the defense knew what was coming they could roll the coverage to the play. If no one is open Ben had to hold the ball so he got hit more. So even though you can put some blame on the players most of it should go to Arians.

There were so many times when I sat on the couch and said that guy missed his hot read. Ben should have hit him right off the bat. The blitz was coming. Now seeing how much these guys think Haley’s playbook is so in depth it makes me wander if they did miss their hot read or not. Was there even a true hot read? Or, was a bubble screen Arians way of having a hot read?

How easy and how much lack of depth was there in Arians playbook? Roethlisberger is looking for his position coach to not throw to much at him at one time in the new playbook. That is fine this early but the fact that he needs to really take it slow shows how little was actually in Arians playbook. Sanders wanting to get flash cards to learn the plays says even more. Sanders is a film room junkie. While injured he eluded to making his friends angry because he would watch the live game like he was watching film. He is a student of the game. For him to be this taken a back by the playbook says we needed a new playbook.

So while these guys may take some time to get used to the new playbook it will help them in the end. They are going from a predictable offense which seemed to be pretty vanilla to and offense run by Haley that will play to their strengths. They will get better routes. They will read coverages and they will find holes in the defense. That will give them the ability to get open faster. It will make the line look better. It will get the ball out of Roethlisberger’s hands faster so he gets hit less. Thus we will score more points. The pressure can be taken off of the defense a little bit. They can get some rest. It will make the entire team better.

So even if it takes all summer to learn. It seems like Haley’s new playbook is going to be worth it. This offense will be better under Haley.

http://bleedblackandgold.com/blog/2012/05/11/steelers-players-reaction-to-todd-haleys-playbook-shows-how-weak-arians-playbook-was/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+BleedBlackAndGold+%28Bleed+Bl ack+and+Gold%29



Hopefully we'll put up more points this year.

Hawaii 5-0
06-29-2012, 08:07 PM
this article is over 5 months old but I thought it explains very well why Arians had to go...


Consistently Average: The OC Career Of Bruce Arians

Saturday, January 21st, 2012 by Jeremy Hritz

This weekend, many Pittsburgh Steelers fans are content, not because the Baltimore Ravens and New England Patriots are on the verge of a Super Bowl appearance, but because the oft-derided offensive coordinator Bruce Arians will not be returning for the 2012 season. There seems to be two camps regarding the Arians-as-offensive-coordinator issues: those that believe in his efficacy, and those that believe he is inept.

The bottom line is that Arians is and has always been average.

Supporters of Arians will highlight the facts that he has helped to lead two Steelers’ teams to Super Bowls, including one victory. They will also point to two 4,000+ passing yard seasons for Ben Roethlisberger as indicators of success. Arians’ apologists will also make the argument that players have to execute better: Big Ben needs to get rid of the ball quicker, the line needs to do a better job at run and pass blocking, and the receivers need to hold on to the ball. These are all valid arguments. However, what cannot be denied is how offenses that Arians has led have performed over a period of time. Arians-led NFL offenses have averaged 336.3 points per NFL season, which does not even crack the top 19 in scoring from 2011. His 22 points per game career average would not even break into the top 15 in the NFL this past year.

An area of dissatisfaction of Pittsburgh fans has been the performance of the running game since Arians began his tenure as offensive coordinator in 2007, so much so that Art Rooney II publicly acknowledged it in the media after the 2009 season. While in 2011 the Steelers finished 9th overall in yards per rushing attempt, there was never any true rhythm in the running game during the season, except for the performances of Isaac Redman in consecutive games against the Browns and the Broncos. A lack of a consistent and effective running game has been a trademark of the Steelers offense over the last five years. The top five rushing attacks in 2011 averaged 4.9 or more yards per carry. Never in twelve stints as OC has Arians developed such an effective rushing attack. Over his career, his offenses have averaged 3.96 yards per rushing attempt, which is not compatible with the tradition of the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Lastly, when it comes to protecting the quarterback, there is an undeniable pattern in Arians’ history as OC. Quarterbacks are sacked on average 2.7 times per game, which over a sixteen game season amounts to 43.2 sacks. This was a trend that followed Arians to the Steelers from the Browns.

While there are many conclusions that can be drawn from the data, what cannot be ignored is that in three incredibly significant statistical offensive categories, points scored, yards per rush, and sacks allowed, throughout his career, the offenses of Arians have been average, if not somewhat less than average. While Steelers’ fans are grateful for his contributions to the success of the team over the last five years, including the Super Bowl win, a question that we all should asking is that with the strong defenses we have had during that time, with a more effective offensive coordinator, could we have won another Lombardi trophy or two?

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/01/consistently-average-the-oc-career-of-bruce-arians/

Ricco Suavez
06-29-2012, 09:33 PM
I agree it was time for Arians to go. My biggest reason is the offensive creativity had come to a halt, the red zone issues , and whether fair or not the plays left Ben too vulnerable to sacks with little to no outlets for quick hits.

But in fairness to Arians the numbers the writer posted during Arians tenure, especially the scoring average fall much in line with Steeler offenses from the past with most OCs. I will be most surprised if we score much more than 21-24 pts a game this year, this is pretty much what the Steelers have always done. I also will surprised if we run the ball much more. I believe we will continue to run and pass in similar ratio, but hopefully we run more effectively in the red zone and in obvious run situations.

VaDave
06-29-2012, 10:25 PM
I harbor no sadness with Arians departure. It may take a while for the new O to click, but when it does, look out brother....

TheVet
06-30-2012, 04:52 AM
While there are many conclusions that can be drawn from the data, what cannot be ignored is that in three incredibly significant statistical offensive categories, points scored, yards per rush, and sacks allowed, throughout his career, the offenses of Arians have been average, if not somewhat less than average.

Quoted for Truth

ricardisimo
06-30-2012, 06:20 AM
Passing on third-and-one is not a sign of creativity, but of desperation. Having the talent we have and still resorting to desperation plays is stunning, humbling, and unacceptable. Good riddance, I say.

The Lakelander
06-30-2012, 09:04 AM
So therefore, based on this article, we can all expect 30 points per game and an unstoppable offensive juggernaut ...

Ricco Suavez
06-30-2012, 09:28 AM
So therefore, based on this article, we can all expect 30 points per game and an unstoppable offensive juggernaut ...

This seems to be the consensus among the faithful, sadly I feel many will be disappointed. While we have the tools at certain positions, we do not have the mentality to put up points in bunches. This comes from years of the pound and ground and it is the current owners thought to return more to running along with the new OC. Like I stated before if the "new" offense can eliminate some turnovers, run more effective in certain situations, just score more often in the red zone, along with better special team play and turnovers created by our defense that shortens the field. We cannot be last in turnovers or last in starting field position and expect 30 points a game.

Steel95
06-30-2012, 01:55 PM
Bruce Arians had a keen offensive mind, but for some reason he didn't have a good game-plan for running the football in the Red-Zone. 3rd & 1, we throw the football? C'mon Man! We're in the Red-Zone, we hardly ever ran the football. I think the reason he was fired was largely due to him becoming too close to his QB; you just can't do it. Ken Whisenhunt? Big Ben couldn't stnd him, why? He was a Coach, not a friend. Todd Haley? He is just what the Dr. ordered and I'm going to remain optimistic that the Offense will be better, but it may take some time. Another thing, I could never figure out why they never utilized Dennis Dixon skills to run. The guy wasn't Roethlisburger, then again, he didn't need to be.

Steel95
06-30-2012, 01:59 PM
This seems to be the consensus among the faithful, sadly I feel many will be disappointed. While we have the tools at certain positions, we do not have the mentality to put up points in bunches. This comes from years of the pound and ground and it is the current owners thought to return more to running along with the new OC. Like I stated before if the "new" offense can eliminate some turnovers, run more effective in certain situations, just score more often in the red zone, along with better special team play and turnovers created by our defense that shortens the field. We cannot be last in turnovers or last in starting field position and expect 30 points a game.

Ricco, I would have to disagree; I don't think the Steelers will return to that old run, run, pass mentality (65-35). I just think more emphasis will be on the rushing attack, something Bruce Arians was reluctant to do even after his boss (Mr. Rooney) suggested that he do it. Andlets face it, when our employeer makes a suggestion that we change something, it's a polite way of letting us know you need to do it.

TheVet
06-30-2012, 03:18 PM
Bruce Arians had a keen offensive mind, but for some reason he didn't have a good game-plan for running the football in the Red-Zone.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The argument around Arians is whether he was completely incompetent or simply mediocre. "A keen offensive mind" is sort of out of the question.

fer522
06-30-2012, 03:30 PM
Arians had a play book?:huh:
That's breaking news to me :chuckle:

VaDave
07-02-2012, 10:31 PM
RE: Run Pass Ratio

That to me is not as important as the consistency of how well you do both.

I'll agree BA has historically been an average OC, but he's been an OC that has had his offense in the SuperBowl twice, and won one of those, considering most can't make that claim, but that's as much as I'm going to say for him.

I got a lot more against him, and glad he's been sent on his way.

In conclusion, good luck Luck. The man is h*ll on QBs.

PS: Everyone raise their hands if they are expecting Indianapolis's offense is going to be be just as good as when Payton and Moore were running the show....

Bayz101
07-02-2012, 10:32 PM
Arians had a play book?:huh:
That's breaking news to me :chuckle:

This was the last post before the forum went down. Arians did it.

LVSteelersfan
07-02-2012, 10:36 PM
Arians had a play book?:huh:
That's breaking news to me :chuckle:

I was thinking pretty much the same thing. I thought he just had about a dozen plays on that sheet of paper he hid behind because it seemed the plays were almost always the same. I am guessing it was one of the smallest playbooks in the league. Hopefully it wasn't because it was all Ben could decipher. If that is the case, then Haley's playbook won't be any better as Ben will audible to his favorite plays any way. I hope not.

VaDave
07-02-2012, 10:46 PM
I don't think that a lack of plays was as much of an issue as having specific personel groupings and or formations for each play, which were a sure fire tip off for the defense, and also led to a lack of cohesion as a unit.

There was something with his O that just didn't pass the eyeball test. I dunno, it alway looked kind of rag tag, like they didn't practice much, or didn't work hard to polish things up.

ricardisimo
07-02-2012, 11:28 PM
I don't think that a lack of plays was as much of an issue as having specific personel groupings and or formations for each play, which were a sure fire tip off for the defense, and also led to a lack of cohesion as a unit.

There was something with his O that just didn't pass the eyeball test. I dunno, it alway looked kind of rag tag, like they didn't practice much, or didn't work hard to polish things up.
I dunno... seemed pretty clear the plays that they were practicing, but they weren't the sort of useful, every-down type of plays. And it wasn't even so much that they passed the ball on 3rd-and-1. It was more that they did it with an empty backfield. I mean, please, make some attempt to confuse the opposition.

Could that possibly explain their goal-line and short yardage woes? Nah. Of course not.

Hawaii 5-0
07-03-2012, 02:08 AM
PFW Sees Offensive Fireworks For Steelers In 2012

Sunday, July 1st, 2012 by Jeremy Hritz

The Steelers’ point-scoring issues of a season ago don’t repeat themselves. This talented of an offense should expect to at least rank in the upper half of the NFL in points scored, and it would be a surprise if the Steelers didn’t light up the scoreboard a little more this season. Added punch on offense would make Pittsburgh all the more formidable, considering the strength of its experienced, physical defense.

While most of these sentiments are shared by Steelers fans as a result of the numerous offseason moves, will they be able to meet these expectations? On paper, the addition of young, athletic offensive lineman to the starting lineup, and the injection of youth to a few defensive positions, looks promising. Whether or not it will be able to translate to success will be unknown until training camp.

PFW is making several assumptions in their prediction for the Steelers in 2012.

The first is that Todd Haley will make this a better offense.

Outside of the change in coordinator and the addition of two rookie offensive linemen, the offense will mostly be intact for next season. So how can PFW make the claim that the Steelers will improve? I don’t think there is any greater criticism of Bruce Arians.

The rhythm-less offense underperformed under Arians. Arians was not a coordinator who made his offensive players look good; rather, it was his players that made him look good. Think about it, without Ben Roethlisberger and his knack for converting the broken play into first downs and points, would the Steelers have beaten the Cardinals for their sixth Super Bowl? Earlier in the year, I wrote an article about Arians’ career as offensive coordinator and how the statistics show that year after year, it was nothing more than average.

Haley comes to the Steelers with a history of leading explosive offenses that establish a tempo and score points, the converse of Arians, and the salient reason why the offense is expected to perform at a higher level.

The second is that the defense will continue to be dominant.

PFW says that the Steelers will be an even better team, considering the improved offense, and the “strength of its experienced, physical defense.” Last year, the Steelers finished ranked number one in overall defense, first in passing defense, and first in points allowed. However, the Steelers were shaky against the run last season, despite finishing eighth overall. While statistically it appears that the defense was dominant last season, the dearth of turnovers, sacks, and the susceptibility to the run made it somewhat of an off year. While much of the struggles on the defense last season were attributed to the age of some players (James Farrior, Aaron Smith), they have since been released. And the Steelers have made it a point this offseason to work some of their youth into the lineup at key positions. Hopefully, these changes will make a statistically strong defense a game changing defense that can force turnovers and make the big plays when needed.

The national media is starting to share the high expectations that Steelers fans have for their team in 2012, and there are no reasons to believe that they will not be fulfilled.

The pressure is on.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/07/pfw-sees-offensive-fireworks-for-steelers-in-2012/

fer522
07-03-2012, 07:35 AM
This was the last post before the forum went down. Arians did it.

That sonofabitch!!

ANDYMISIU
07-03-2012, 09:01 AM
I like change! and with the players we have on offense combined with a new offensive line unit.... I think the offense can be very dangerous in the right hands. I just hope the guys can wrap their head around it in time for opening day.

steelfury02
07-03-2012, 11:59 AM
i can see a scenario in the Denver game where we'll try running it a fair amount at first to get the line's feet wet and to set up some huge play actions - i think we'll be pleasantly surprised at the very least at how much more LOGICAL things look on offense and that there are actual reactions to the other team adjusting instead of banging head against wall time after time. I expect mistakes - but I think we'll see a breath of fresh air that will get everyone excited of where the offense is headed

plus, I believe our defense will be fired up because its Denver and no matter who is at QB they want to put on a dominant performance cause of how things ended - I'm lookin for a huge day from Woodley, Harrison and Troy and maybe even some of those youngins at CB

Steelboy84
07-03-2012, 02:15 PM
He was instrumental in the development of Manning when he first came into the league though.

Fire Arians
07-03-2012, 02:18 PM
He was instrumental in the development of Manning when he first came into the league though.

more like he was riding the coattails of manning. manning was going to be great regardless, too much talent to fail. his entire career had a track record for mediocrity, his only saving grace is but, but, but, i mentored peyton!

TheVet
07-03-2012, 04:23 PM
i think we'll be pleasantly surprised at the very least at how much more LOGICAL things look on offense and that there are actual reactions to the other team adjusting instead of banging head against wall time after time.

For sure! Thankfully this dark era is over.

He was instrumental in the development of Manning when he first came into the league though.

Not exactly. Anyway, now Andrew Luck can take his turn mentoring Arians.

Hawaii 5-0
07-09-2012, 07:39 PM
Antonio Brown: Todd Haley “seems like a real friendly guy”

Posted by Michael David Smith on July 9, 2012

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/610x32.jpg?w=250

When new Steelers offensive coordinator Todd Haley was hired, the questions in Pittsburgh were mostly about whether the famously prickly Haley could get along with the players on Pittsburgh’s offense. But Steelers receiver Antonio Brown says that’s not a concern at all.

Brown told Jim Rome on Rome that after working with Haley in minicamp and Organized Team Activities this summer, he’s come away impressed with the fact that when Haley gets on players, it’s because he genuinely cares about bringing out the best in them.

“You’ve got to respond well when coaches get up in your face,” Brown said. “He seems like a real friendly guy who’s demanding the best for you. You can’t take it personally. You’ve got to use it all for the better.”

I haven’t heard any players refer to Haley as “a real friendly guy” before (I think the closest thing to a compliment I had ever heard one of Haley’s players give him before was when Steve Breaston referred to Haley as “not always a butthole“), but Brown says that Haley’s approach is just what the Steelers need.

“Change can be great if everyone buys in. We’re accepting Todd Haley — you see his history of great wide receivers,” he said. “Getting a chance of working with him at OTAs and minicamp was something special.”

From Brown’s description, it sounds like the Steelers are getting a friendlier version of Haley. It remains to be seen whether that will last once the season starts.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/09/antonio-brown-todd-haley-seems-like-a-real-friendly-guy/

tony hipchest
07-09-2012, 08:09 PM
ben and haley are gonna get along great cause ben is "not always a butthole" either.

steelfury02
07-10-2012, 03:10 PM
before you know it, they'll be riding a 2-man bicycle, getting matching sweaters, making jams in mason-jars, and getting their portraits sketched together at Kennywood

que "You've got a friend in me . . ."

Ironman55
07-10-2012, 04:41 PM
I was never a fan of Arians playbook or play calling. I remember many games where we had a lead going into the forth quarter and he would still call pass after pass after pass. More often than not, this would get us into some form of trouble and the game would end up much closer than it should have or we would just lose completely.

You can remember the days when we would get a lead going into the fourth quarter and we would run the ball down the throats of our opponent. Running the ball late in games with even a small lead would switch the tide drmatically in our favor. The clock would run continuously, the opposing defense would get exhausted and demoralized, and our defense would get a good rest to hold off the the late desperate surges from the oppontent.

I like the addition of Haley!! I believe in his knowledge and his systems. He also expects performance and will accept no excuses. This is exactly what our offense needs.

Add that to our stellar draft (IMHO) and I think we can expect some pretty good things this year.

I love that everyone is overlooking us. We play our best ball when we get disrespected.

So bring it on and see who is left standing!!

ricardisimo
07-10-2012, 04:58 PM
Pretty sure there's a Butthole Surfers vid that should be posted here: _________

I'll investigate and edit this post as needed.

jiminpa
07-15-2012, 09:24 AM
I hate to be the dissenting voice (I find myself doing this more and more often around here-- I genuinely apologize...dont want to be the rain on the parade all the time)....but....

Strangely enough, my problem with Bruce Arians was never his playbook, but his inability to pick plays in an effective manner from that playbook and to string them together into a successful drive. Ganted, I am no offensive mastermind or even a coach, I just played through high school.

Most of the Bruce Arians playbook was carried over from well back into Cowher's era. I remember some of Ben's complaints from back when Tomlin first took over-- the playbook had mushroomed up to around 1000 pages, because over the years, our different O coordinators kept adding to it, but never subtracting any obsolete plays. And out of those, we only used some 20% in any given season, supposedly.

I don't know if I agree that the whole playbook needs a revamping. We just need somebody that can pick and choose the right plays during a game so we don't end up coming out 5-wide on 3rd and 1.

It will be very interesting to see how Brucies does in Indy with Andrew Luck. What if they end up with one of the leading offenses in the NFL?Arians threw out the old playbook, and wrote a new one in his language. He called it "streamlining." He claimed it would look like the old one from the outside. He lied.

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/arians-warms-to-task-in-a-hurry-471021/

jiminpa
07-15-2012, 09:35 AM
How many times did we run a 5-wide/empty-backfield on 3 and 1?

I ask because everybody makes it sound like it was a common occurrence, but I can't remember any specific instances other than the game in Cleveland in December 2009. I recall a lot of runs on 3 and 1 in 2010 and 2011, Redman specifically took over that role.You're joking right? It was his favorite 3rd and short play. Two or three times a game or more if they had enough third and shorts, but remember Arians doesn't believe in gaining yards, so they didn't have many 3rd and 1's.

jiminpa
07-15-2012, 10:00 AM
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The argument around Arians is whether he was completely incompetent or simply mediocre. "A keen offensive mind" is sort of out of the question.Arians came to a chess match with tiddly winks. I was going to say "marbles" but Arians didn't have any marbles.

Ricco Suavez
07-15-2012, 10:05 AM
It was time for Arians to go. Complacent play calling, no motivation for our QB and his young receivers, no plays to help protect our QB from a porous line.

With that said I will say Arians is not a bad OC, if he was then he could not find a job in the NFL. He was at Cleveland and they put up points on us pretty well. When he was let go our FO and Tomlin saw enough to pick him up. Now after we let him go the new Colts coach, a former DC of our main division rival saw enough to pick him up.

All I am saying is that while there is a lot of hate for him on this board he must have some skills that enable him to impress rivals and others to entrust him with their offense.

jiminpa
07-15-2012, 10:12 AM
It was time for Arians to go. Complacent play calling, no motivation for our QB and his young receivers, no plays to help protect our QB from a porous line.

With that said I will say Arians is not a bad OC, if he was then he could not find a job in the NFL. He was at Cleveland and they put up points on us pretty well. When he was let go our FO and Tomlin saw enough to pick him up. Now after we let him go the new Colts coach, a former DC of our main division rival saw enough to pick him up.

All I am saying is that while there is a lot of hate for him on this board he must have some skills that enable him to impress rivals and others to entrust him with their offense.What he had was a head coach who fears change, even for the better, and a whining QB who made it hard for the FO to hire the most qualified head coach when Cowher retired. His OC resume is consistent--he has been fired from every OC job he has ever had, even college, and only lasted so long with the Steelers because of said fear of change and a sometimes-too-patient ownership. The fact is that it was time for him to go, not after the playoff game against the jags, but after the regular season game against them, his first year.

Ricco Suavez
07-15-2012, 10:36 AM
I will agree with one point he is consistent, consistent in that he is hired by people who's job is to put winning teams on the field. While I understand it is easy to blame the OC for shortcomings on the offensive side of the ball it is not always so. We put up lots of yards and led the league in time of possession last year. What it did not correlate to was more points on the scoreboard. Costly penalties, turnovers, and the fact that we also led the league in longest starting field position contribute to the points as much as anything.

I agree it was time for change but in the sense of fairness I think Arians sometimes takes too much of the blame for this offense. Now what will be interesting is this, Haley returns us to a great running game yet it does not result in more points, what then my friends will be the state of the Steeler faithful?

mikegrimey
07-15-2012, 02:12 PM
You're joking right? It was his favorite 3rd and short play. Two or three times a game or more if they had enough third and shorts, but remember Arians doesn't believe in gaining yards, so they didn't have many 3rd and 1's.

Prove it, where's the stats/evidence to support that claim? I ask all the time but nobody that seems so sure that we ran 5-wides all the time on 3&1 never bother to actually show any proof, and before you bring it up, everyone remembers the instance in Cleveland 2009, but you need more to prove that it was a common occurrence.

Bayz101
07-15-2012, 02:28 PM
Prove it, where's the stats/evidence to support that claim? I ask all the time but nobody that seems so sure that we ran 5-wides all the time on 3&1 never bother to actually show any proof, and before you bring it up, everyone remembers the instance in Cleveland 2009, but you need more to prove that it was a common occurrence.

I have a hard time remembering instances where Bruce DIDN'T run a five-wide set on third and short. The reality is, if you've watched Steelers games, you've likely seen this more than once, any given Sunday. I'm not about to dig through 500 articles to look for it, and I don't blame anyone else if they decide not to as well, but I KNOW I've seen it. And I KNOW I've seen it WAY too much. His offense was predictable, and that's why he's gone. He'll do good in Indianapolis for a short time if he's altered his playbook a little bit, but even if he has, the defense's will figure it out in a short time, just as they did with us.

There was plenty of fatal flaws in the Arians offense. Plenty.

mikegrimey
07-15-2012, 03:49 PM
[QUOTE=Bayz101;1018203]I have a hard time remembering instances where Bruce DIDN'T run a five-wide set on third and short. The reality is, if you've watched Steelers games, you've likely seen this more than once, any given Sunday. I'm not about to dig through 500 articles to look for it, and I don't blame anyone else if they decide not to as well, but I KNOW I've seen it. And I KNOW I've seen it WAY too much. His offense was predictable, and that's why he's gone. He'll do good in Indianapolis for a short time if he's altered his playbook a little bit, but even if he has, the defense's will figure it out in a short time, just as they did with us.

There was plenty of fatal flaws in the Arians offense.

Relying on your own memory isn't proof, not close at all. People tend to prioritize their memories and hang onto vivid dramatic ones over the mundane which is why I think a lot of steelers fans take one or two awful memories of 5-wide sets on 3&1 (like the 09 game in Cleveland) and refuse to remember all the times we didn't line up 5-wide on 3&1. The stats won't lie or distort. If we truly ran a 5-wide on 3&1 as often as you remember it would be no trouble to pick through our play by plays from 07-11 and put some proof behind your claims.

Steelersfan87
07-15-2012, 05:41 PM
These discussions are so boring already. Everybody has a badly warped hindsight of having 9 receivers on the field on 4th and centimeters at this point. Nobody ever cites actual evidence. Except for the fact that the Steelers were above average, converting over 60% of the time, on 3rd and 3 or shorter last year.

tony hipchest
07-15-2012, 06:03 PM
It was time for Arians to go. Complacent play calling, no motivation for our QB and his young receivers, no plays to help protect our QB from a porous line.

With that said I will say Arians is not a bad OC, if he was then he could not find a job in the NFL. He was at Cleveland and they put up points on us pretty well. When he was let go our FO and Tomlin saw enough to pick him up. Now after we let him go the new Colts coach, a former DC of our main division rival saw enough to pick him up.

All I am saying is that while there is a lot of hate for him on this board he must have some skills that enable him to impress rivals and others to entrust him with their offense.he's not horrible or even bad. he's just below the standard of excellence the steelers expect. he certainly isnt as great as chuck pagano makes him out to be-

Why did Pagano, the former Baltimore Ravens defensive coordinator, turn to Arians, the former Steelers offensive coordinator?

"It wasn't his looks," Pagano said, laughing. "He's a brilliant offensive coordinator."

Arians, 59, was unemployed at the time, having been pushed into early retirement by the Steelers. He was near his offseason residence in Milledgeville, Ga., when Pagano called.

"I said, 'Hey, you retired?' " Pagano offered of his conversation with Arians. "He goes, 'Not if you're offering a job.' He was officially retired for two days. We hit a home run."http://www.indystar.com/article/20120715/NEWS05/207150343/Indianapolis-Colts-Offensive-coordinator-Arians-demands-accountability

i think arians was hired more for his familiarity w/ colts ownership and old bud pagano (going back to their days together in cleveland) than tha many times arians lit up the ravens defense for 9-13 points.

MasterOfPuppets
07-15-2012, 06:59 PM
. "He's a brilliant offensive coordinator." , Pagano said, laughing

fixed it.

Hawaii 5-0
07-15-2012, 09:57 PM
Reggie Wayne likes Bruce Arians: “He’s not going to BS you”

Posted by Michael David Smith on July 15, 2012

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/brucearianscolts-e1342400896912.jpg?w=250

New Colts offensive coordinator Bruce Arians has made a good impression on veteran receiver Reggie Wayne by not taking it easy on him.

Instead, Wayne says, Arians has impressed Wayne by getting on his case and calling him out in meetings if necessary, posting lists of mistakes players have made in practices and sparing no one.

“He’s not going to BS you,” Wayne told the Indianapolis Star. “I’ve been on there quite a few times. You know when meetings start, he’s going to put that paper up. And sometimes you’ll be afraid to look up and see how many times your number’s on there. He doesn’t care who you are. He’ll put your number up there and he’s going to correct you.”

Arians says his practice of listing players’ mistakes isn’t about embarrassing players, it’s about giving them a sense of ownership over the offense.

“It’s not my offense, it’s theirs,” Arians said. “They have to be accountable to each other. If it’s one of those young guys on that sheet a lot in September and October, you need to check into what he’s doing off the field and get him straightened out. We are collective and one guy can tear it all apart.”

Wayne is one veteran who likes to see a coach who’s going to hold him, and his teammates, accountable.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/15/reggie-wayne-likes-bruce-arians-hes-not-going-to-bs-you/

tony hipchest
07-16-2012, 01:07 AM
“It’s not my offense, it’s theirs,” Arians said. “They have to be accountable to each other.

:doh:

um, bruce, it is your offense as well and YOU need to be accountable when it fails.

( i always hated his blame shifting and lack of accountability.) :banging:

MACH1
07-16-2012, 01:14 AM
It's good they have all this time to learn all three of arians plays.

Hawaii 5-0
07-16-2012, 02:13 AM
It's good they have all this time to learn all three of arians plays.


1) RUTFM
2) bubble screen
3) everyone goes deep, QB scrambles for his life

tony hipchest
07-16-2012, 02:20 AM
if haley's playbook is the rosetta stone, then arians' was colored plastic letter magnets on the refrigerator in the breakroom.

Hawaii 5-0
07-16-2012, 02:55 AM
Indianapolis Colts Coach Chuck Pagano: 'We Hit a Home Run' with Bruce Arians

by Neal Coolong on Jul 15, 2012

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/4669919/130154253_extra_large.jpg

Indianapolis Star writer Mike Chappell has an in-depth feature geared around new Colts offensive coordinator, and former Steelers offensive coordinator, Bruce Arians.

The impression left with Chappell is Arians is looking for accountability. Not just with him, but within his offensive players.

He also writes about the process used by head coach Chuck Pagano in hiring Arians, and everything suggests Pagano and the Colts are excited to have him.

Particularly WR Reggie Wayne, who conducted a bit of a background check on his new boss.

Per Chappelle, Wayne called a few Steelers players to hear what Arians was like. His research to this point is exactly what he was told.

"Everything they said, I'm seeing with him. Everything," Wayne said. "He's not going to sugarcoat anything. He's going to try to correct you and make you the best you can be. If you're a veteran guy, you've got to understand that and take the good with the bad.

"I appreciate that. I can handle that. I'm glad he's here."

Judging by the Steelers' propensity to throw the ball in two of the last three seasons (in 2010, they ran the ball the most, and went to the Super Bowl. They missed the playoffs in 2009 and lost in the first round in 2011), it would figure Wayne would be excited.

Chappelle also writes Arians is expected to oversee "an offense that leans on a power running game and passing attack that is diverse and tight-end heavy."

The tight end part is believable. However, it seems the most logical reason Arians was brought in was due to his track record with quarterbacks. Arians was with Peyton Manning and Tim Couch, both No. 1 overall picks, in their rookie seasons, and oversaw Steelers QB Ben Roethlisberger starting in his fourth season.

Andrew Luck is Arians' third quarterback taken No. 1 overall, and fourth consecutive job in which he worked with a quarterback taken in the first 11 picks.

Considering the Colts took a quarterback and two highly rated tight ends (Coby Fleener and Dwayne Allen) in the 2012 NFL Draft, and don't have a proven feature running back older than 25, except receiving-adept Mewelde Moore, the concept of power running may not exactly be in their plans.

Manning, after all, threw 575 passes his rookie year, the highest in the league in 1998.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2012/7/15/3160504/indianapolis-colts-bruce-arians-pittsburgh-steelers-andrew-luck-ben-roethlisberger#storyjump

steelfury02
07-16-2012, 12:16 PM
The Colts would be lucky to go 7-9 this year - whatever false sense of confidence they want to give to themselves before training camp even starts, so be it

Bruce Arians won't have a job after the next couple of seasons - mark my words

Pagano had to hire SOMEONE

jiminpa
07-16-2012, 12:51 PM
The Colts would be lucky to go 7-9 this year - whatever false sense of confidence they want to give to themselves before training camp even starts, so be it

Bruce Arians won't have a job after the next couple of seasons - mark my words

Pagano had to hire SOMEONEIs there no one in Indianapolis who plays Madden? Couldn't be any worse.

Hawaii 5-0
07-16-2012, 08:50 PM
Bruce Arians won't have a job after the next couple of seasons - mark my words


http://www.planetsteelers.com/forums/image.php?u=6978&type=sigpic&dateline=1341605965

jiminpa
07-17-2012, 01:11 PM
It seems like Arians is a really good positions coach. You don't have to understand the game, just the mechanics of the position.

El-Gonzo Jackson
07-17-2012, 01:35 PM
He's a good coach. His offenses will move the football and score points, but be one dimensional. A good pass rush and pass defense will put it under pressure and he will have to resort to bubble screens as a form of extended handoffs because he has no committment to being able to run the ball.

He isnt a bad OC, but rather a guy that wants to go back to the glory days of the 80's run and shoot offenses or arena league football. I'm happy he "retired" and moved on.

steelfury02
07-17-2012, 02:06 PM
I would have liked the Arians system to have scored more than just shy of 3 touchdowns and a field goal every game over the course of his OC tenure - and that is including playoff games - it is a testament to the pure talent on offense and fantastic defenses we've had that have more than made up for his blunders

all it took was a team with one good edge rusher, - didn't even need to be solid in the secondary - just wait for the good old predictable 3rd down and send your best man - when we faced a "solid" defense with more than 1 playmaker, we struggled in red zone all day long ala v. Ravens, Colts, Texans, 49ers.

I guarantee with 100% certainty that struggles will happen again this season, but I guarantee with 100% certainty that it won't be as either painfully predictable or because there is an unwillingness to adjust or use logic lol

give Bruce possession from the 20 to the 20 and your offense will rack up stats and TOP, but where it matters, talent will have to take over and squeek it out on pure willpower - i know it is soooooo old of a topic, but man oh man am I glad he is gone :)

lloydwoodson
07-19-2012, 08:06 AM
The Colts would be lucky to go 7-9 this year - whatever false sense of confidence they want to give to themselves before training camp even starts, so be it

Bruce Arians won't have a job after the next couple of seasons - mark my words

Pagano had to hire SOMEONE

Arians will fail with the Colts and it will not be his fault. The Colts just yard saled their team losing countless starters on both sides of the ball. Andrew Luck is going to have to carry a mediocre team just like Peyton did if the Colts will have any sucess. And Peyton went 2-14 in his first season. I expect the Colts to be one of the worst teams in the league for years to come.

jiminpa
07-19-2012, 01:52 PM
Arians will fail with the Colts and it will not be his fault. The Colts just yard saled their team losing countless starters on both sides of the ball. Andrew Luck is going to have to carry a mediocre team just like Peyton did if the Colts will have any sucess. And Peyton went 2-14 in his first season. I expect the Colts to be one of the worst teams in the league for years to come.With Arians as OC, 2-14 will be the Colts glory days, if they don't have the best defense in the NFL, and we aren't giving ours up.

mistersheezy
07-20-2012, 08:01 PM
It's never a strong playbook when your offense struggles to score 3 td's a game!!!

Ricco Suavez
07-20-2012, 09:56 PM
Considering the Steelers have scored more than 400 points in a season only twice (1979 416 pts. and 1995 407 pts) and averaged over a sixteen game season comes to around 26 pts per game. I would think three tds and a FG would be pretty much in line with what we have done year in and year out.

For everyone expecting New Orleans, New England, or the old Colts type numbers get ready to be disappointed. I hope we are as good offensively this year as we were in the recent years. The only difference is I hope we finish drives, run the ball enough to keep defenses guessing and protect our QB. This team if they eliminate about a third of last years turnovers and about half of their penalites (Scott and Kemo gone should help) could do very well. But, and I will say it again, New OC may not translate into more points, I just hope it translate into as many wins as last year with a healthy squad come playoff time.

jiminpa
07-21-2012, 01:13 AM
I actually looked at the first 5 games last year, and was going to post my findings, but my browser crashed.

There were a lot of shotguns on third and short, too many, but not as many as I expected. There were very few rushes on third and short.

A couple things scream about the Steelers. They didn't have many third and shorts last year, but they did have a lot of third and another zip codes. EVERY 3-3 they lined up in shotgun.

Steelersfan87
07-21-2012, 01:21 AM
http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/05/pittsburgh-steelers-2011-down-analysis-play-report-by-pass-run-scramble/

On third down and 2 or less, the Steelers ran 19 times and passed 16 times. However, they never ran from 3rd and 3, passing on all 19 such scenarios.

Hawaii 5-0
07-21-2012, 02:44 AM
http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/05/pittsburgh-steelers-2011-down-analysis-play-report-by-pass-run-scramble/

On third down and 2 or less, the Steelers ran 19 times and passed 16 times. However, they never ran from 3rd and 3, passing on all 19 such scenarios.

that is a very interesting statistic, one that every opposing defense we played was undoubtedly very well aware of...

Steelersfan87
07-21-2012, 03:32 AM
Well...I wonder what the statistics for every other team on 3rd and 3 are. I imagine the pass to run ratio is probably like 30:1, or even significantly greater. That is just a shot in the dark. But I bet there are not too many carries on 3rd and 3 around the entire league. It's a big risk if you're not trying to run out the clock.

jiminpa
07-21-2012, 01:01 PM
Well...I wonder what the statistics for every other team on 3rd and 3 are. I imagine the pass to run ratio is probably like 30:1, or even significantly greater. That is just a shot in the dark. But I bet there are not too many carries on 3rd and 3 around the entire league. It's a big risk if you're not trying to run out the clock.It's not just that they never rushed, although that is bad enough, it's that they were all shotgun, and probably empty set. The defense can just pin their ears back and attack the QB, and not even account for a run. Arians called desperate, low percentage plays when the situation favored the Steelers. He literally called the WORST possible play for the down and distance EVERY 3rd and 3. The total yield over the course of his tenure would have been better if they punted every 3rd and medium. That's how bad that is strategically. Empty set on 3rd and 3 is so stupid that it might work the first time, and only the first time, because the defense might not even adjust to it, waiting for the shift or motion. Once every defense in the NFL realizes you are stupid enough to actually do it, it will NEVER work again. The second time he called an empty set on third and medium he should have been removed from the Steelers sideline and not allowed on the plane if they were away.

Steelersfan87
07-21-2012, 05:09 PM
You know...they were 11 for 19 converting on those 3rd and 3 plays, so...I'm thinking you're overreacting. They were also 7 for 11 on passes from 3rd and 4, 10 for 15 on passes from 3rd and 5 and 8 for 12 on passes from 3rd and 6. Also, they were 3 for 4 on passes from 3rd and 1.

jiminpa
07-21-2012, 06:21 PM
You know...they were 11 for 19 converting on those 3rd and 3 plays, so...I'm thinking you're overreacting. They were also 7 for 11 on passes from 3rd and 4, 10 for 15 on passes from 3rd and 5 and 8 for 12 on passes from 3rd and 6. Also, they were 3 for 4 on passes from 3rd and 1.That's less than a 60% conversion rate on 3rd and 3-- FAIL! 3rd and 3 is a should make down.

ricardisimo
07-21-2012, 06:34 PM
Yeah, they weren't actually that bad at it, as I recall, which is a testament to Ben's skill. And 3rd-down-and-anything last year is what made Antonio Brown such a stud. Still, given their talent level they clearly could have been better in short yardage, 4th Down especially, Red Zone and goal line. Oh, and did we mention scoring? More points helps.

Perhaps most importantly, Arians didn't need to try to get Ben killed on every 3rd down. That was stupid. Watching Ben in empty set after that Cleveland game was nothing short of criminal. What a complete doofus.

Steelersfan87
07-21-2012, 07:27 PM
The Steelers were above average on 3rd down conversion percentage under Arians. That was never his problem. It was in the red zone. And 3rd and 3 a "make"? Not a chance.

Lizard72
07-23-2012, 12:07 AM
Yeah, they weren't actually that bad at it, as I recall, which is a testament to Ben's skill. And 3rd-down-and-anything last year is what made Antonio Brown such a stud. Still, given their talent level they clearly could have been better in short yardage, 4th Down especially, Red Zone and goal line. Oh, and did we mention scoring? More points helps.

Perhaps most importantly, Arians didn't need to try to get Ben killed on every 3rd down. That was stupid. Watching Ben in empty set after that Cleveland game was nothing short of criminal. What a complete doofus.

Most definitely! Those empty sets when Ben was clearly limping around were just an invitation to destroy him.

That they were able to convert on them is a matter of talent. Ben was picking himself up and wincing in pain everytime.

Someone should teach him how to fall. He tends to get his feet tangled in some wierd angles.

MACH1
07-23-2012, 12:10 AM
Hopefully we have an OC that can adapt and not continually put him in those situations. Square peg round hole.

tony hipchest
07-30-2012, 01:33 AM
http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/2288305-85/ankle-offseason-polamalu-coordinator-guard-haley-offense-pads-pain-plays?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+tribunereviewsteelers+%28Stee lers+Stories%29• Being on the physically unable to perform list has given tackle Max Starks time to dissect new coordinator Todd Haley’s offense. Starks said Haley’s offense is actually more user-friendly once it’s learned, unlike that of former coordinator Bruce Arians’ playbook. “Sometimes we had one play that meant three different plays. Now there is a name for each one of those plays,” he said.

:doh: :dang: :banging:

one play that really means THREE different plays? That'll most certainly trick em!

bruce arians was so smart, opposing defensive coordinators were too dumb to even be fooled as designed. :dang:

Bayz101
07-30-2012, 01:42 AM
http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/2288305-85/ankle-offseason-polamalu-coordinator-guard-haley-offense-pads-pain-plays?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+tribunereviewsteelers+%28Stee lers+Stories%29

:doh: :dang: :banging:

one play that really means THREE different plays? That'll most certainly trick em!

bruce arians was so smart, opposing defensive coordinators were too dumb to even be fooled as designed. :dang:

:rofl:

tony hipchest
07-30-2012, 01:47 AM
:chuckle: if i dont laugh, i'll cry... what a freaking idiot.

TheVet
07-30-2012, 02:03 AM
“Sometimes we had one play that meant three different plays. Now there is a name for each one of those plays,” he said.

Uhhh oh, Ben is going to run out of writing room on his left forearm pad ...