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Hawaii 5-0
05-18-2012, 06:37 PM
LaMarr Woodley Named NFLís 63rd Best Player :tt02:

May 17th, 2012

http://www.everyjoe.com/emqb/files/2009/01/lamarr-woodley_upiphotos908605-nfl-afc-championshi.jpg

The NFL Top 100 countdown was down to the top 61-70 this week. There had been no Steelers on the list up until this point. The first Steeler showed up at number 63. Steelers OLB LaMarr Woodley was selected to be on the list. He is more than deserving.

Woodley came in at number 82 last season. I thought there would be a chance Woodley would be snubbed from this list. He missed 6 games due to injury and only played in parts of 3 other games. I thought that might push him off the list. It is nice to see that I was wrong. The fact that Woodley moved up 19 spots shows how much other players respect his game. Woodley was on his way to a possible defensive player of the year before the injury. Woodley had compiled 9 sacks in his first 8 games. He was in the middle of a 4 game multi sack streak.

Woodley was asked to do more while James Harrison was out four games with injury. He did just that and more. While Harrison was out Woodley compiled 7.5 sacks. The team was excited to get Harrison and Woodley back together. Woodley went down with injury the game before Harrison returned.

The two never really got to play together the rest of the season. One or the other was out in every game after that. Even when Woodley was in he was not 100%. Woodley did not record a sack the rest of the season. He was missing some strength and some burst with the hamstring injury.

Woodley deserved to be on this list. I am glad he made it. If he would have had a whole season without injury he probably would have been a whole lot higher.

http://bleedblackandgold.com/blog/

Kingmagyar
05-19-2012, 05:14 AM
I thought Woodley was on his way to a Defensive MVP year and probably would have surpassed Terrell(Ooow my F@#king Achilles!) Suggs in sacks.

5 more Steelers somewhere else on this list.

A guess would be Ben, Troy, James Harrison, Pouncey, and Wallace.

Galax Steeler
05-19-2012, 06:47 AM
Would Ward be on the list are is it players playing now.

Bayz101
05-19-2012, 07:04 AM
Would Ward be on the list are is it players playing now.

I'm pretty sure it's players playing now. Not sure if Woodley would be #63 on an all-time list.

finesward
05-19-2012, 10:47 AM
Meh, not really impressed with Woodley tbh. He can disappear for entire games, make the occasional sack when the QB runs into him, and often loops way too far around the tackle and leaves his running lane wide open. Don't get me wrong, he's a good LB but not great. James Harrison is a great LB. He does it all, and does it all well. He's much more stout vs. the run, has a better pass rush, and is by far a much bigger force than Woodley. When Woodley was out there wasn't much difference in play in Worilds. So does Worilds belong at #63? Wood gets the benefit of never leaving the field.

steelbelieve
05-19-2012, 12:37 PM
Meh, not really impressed with Woodley tbh. He can disappear for entire games, make the occasional sack when the QB runs into him, and often loops way too far around the tackle and leaves his running lane wide open. Don't get me wrong, he's a good LB but not great. James Harrison is a great LB. He does it all, and does it all well. He's much more stout vs. the run, has a better pass rush, and is by far a much bigger force than Woodley. When Woodley was out there wasn't much difference in play in Worilds. So does Worilds belong at #63? Wood gets the benefit of never leaving the field.

wow, simply no where near to being true. He's either lead, tied for or been within one or two sacks of the team lead annually. Meanwhile, he's held the strong-side edge on the number one rated rushing defense since he came into the leage.

finesward
05-19-2012, 02:45 PM
wow, simply no where near to being true. He's either lead, tied for or been within one or two sacks of the team lead annually. Meanwhile, he's held the strong-side edge on the number one rated rushing defense since he came into the leage.

Ok, well that's my opinion. So just because you hold a different one doesn't make yours true and mine not. He is adequate in run support but its not like he's a tackling machine either. Sacks are overrated as a stat imo. I'm looking at tackles, passes defended, qb pressures and everything else an olb is asked to do and he isn't at the top of any of those categories. Most of his sacks are coverage sacks where he had enough time to disengage from the blocker, he has one move at his disposal and that's a straight up bullrush. His wide looping attempts are very poor and almost always never work. Look at his stats if you want but I stand by my opinion that he can disappear from games. If you play the whole game you should have more than one tackle and an assist on average.

pancake
05-19-2012, 04:05 PM
I hope Woodley and Harrison have a healthy and productive year.

Steelersfan87
05-19-2012, 04:08 PM
Woodley has typically gotten off to slow starts and really turned it up as the postseason approaches. Last year obviously was a different story with his hamstring injury, but he still had 9 sacks while being more or less impotent for the second half of the season.

mikeyg
05-20-2012, 07:09 AM
Ok, well that's my opinion. So just because you hold a different one doesn't make yours true and mine not. He is adequate in run support but its not like he's a tackling machine either. Sacks are overrated as a stat imo. I'm looking at tackles, passes defended, qb pressures and everything else an olb is asked to do and he isn't at the top of any of those categories. Most of his sacks are coverage sacks where he had enough time to disengage from the blocker, he has one move at his disposal and that's a straight up bullrush. His wide looping attempts are very poor and almost always never work. Look at his stats if you want but I stand by my opinion that he can disappear from games. If you play the whole game you should have more than one tackle and an assist on average.

"where's waldo woodley" is what I call him many times - you are correct - he just disappears and takes until game 3 or 4 each season even to make his first appearance. would not be 63 on my top 100 - maybe 63 in LB's, but not the whole league :wink02:

steeltheone
05-20-2012, 09:37 AM
wow, simply no where near to being true. He's either lead, tied for or been within one or two sacks of the team lead annually. Meanwhile, he's held the strong-side edge on the number one rated rushing defense since he came into the leage.

An OLB for the Steelers should have many sacks! The last few years, thats the only QB pressure we get!

Dalarin
05-20-2012, 11:38 AM
Ok, well that's my opinion. So just because you hold a different one doesn't make yours true and mine not. He is adequate in run support but its not like he's a tackling machine either. Sacks are overrated as a stat imo. I'm looking at tackles, passes defended, qb pressures and everything else an olb is asked to do and he isn't at the top of any of those categories. Most of his sacks are coverage sacks where he had enough time to disengage from the blocker, he has one move at his disposal and that's a straight up bullrush. His wide looping attempts are very poor and almost always never work. Look at his stats if you want but I stand by my opinion that he can disappear from games. If you play the whole game you should have more than one tackle and an assist on average.

1. Teams run right far more than they run left meaning that Harrison sees the run less
2. Harrison is generally coming on the blindside of the quarterback making him far harder to locate and more likely to gain a sack
3. Most long runs on us have been to the left, not to say Harrison is inferior in stopping the run, but it certainly should make you question your belief in just that

These positions are entirely different and are played as such. I really love Woodley and Harrison both and you should just be damn proud to be a Steelers fan and have the best damn bookends in the league together on one team!

finesward
05-20-2012, 12:50 PM
1. Teams run right far more than they run left meaning that Harrison sees the run less
2. Harrison is generally coming on the blindside of the quarterback making him far harder to locate and more likely to gain a sack
3. Most long runs on us have been to the left, not to say Harrison is inferior in stopping the run, but it certainly should make you question your belief in just that

These positions are entirely different and are played as such. I really love Woodley and Harrison both and you should just be damn proud to be a Steelers fan and have the best damn bookends in the league together on one team!

Harrison sees the run less yet consistently has more tackles....hmmmm

Harrison is rarely ever left solo on a lineman and woodley almost always is yet Harrison consistently has more sacks and pressures...hmmmmm

Like I said he is good but not great by any means. He has had the luxury of.playing opposite of Harrison his whole career. He can at times though turn it on and I wish he would be more.consistent with his play. I'm very grateful he's on the team but I don't think if he was out we would be lost for the season

mikegrimey
05-20-2012, 01:38 PM
Harrison sees the run less yet consistently has more tackles....hmmmm

Harrison is rarely ever left solo on a lineman and woodley almost always is yet Harrison consistently has more sacks and pressures...hmmmmm

Like I said he is good but not great by any means. He has had the luxury of.playing opposite of Harrison his whole career. He can at times though turn it on and I wish he would be more.consistent with his play. I'm very grateful he's on the team but I don't think if he was out we would be lost for the season

Do you have numbers/facts on how often Harrison or Woodley are left 1-on-1 vs a single lineman, that doesn't seem to be an easy stat to compile

Kingmagyar
05-20-2012, 02:32 PM
Meh, not really impressed with Woodley tbh. He can disappear for entire games, make the occasional sack when the QB runs into him, and often loops way too far around the tackle and leaves his running lane wide open. Don't get me wrong, he's a good LB but not great. James Harrison is a great LB. He does it all, and does it all well. He's much more stout vs. the run, has a better pass rush, and is by far a much bigger force than Woodley. When Woodley was out there wasn't much difference in play in Worilds. So does Worilds belong at #63? Wood gets the benefit of never leaving the field.

I would never utter one disparaging thing about Lamarr Woodley. We are very lucky to have him. Any team would feel very fortunate to have a guy who can get double digit sacks from the OLB position. Teams are desperate for a outside pass rusher and can't find them which makes Woodley special.

It's just my opinion also but, any team in this league would grab Woodley from us if they could in a second. Now that's an opinion bordering on actual fact. Woodley doesn't come anywhere near a "meh" to describe. You want to utter the word "meh" a lot get rid of Woodley.

Steelersfan87
05-20-2012, 03:21 PM
Woodley proved that he can stand on his own merits when he had 7 1/2 sacks and a safety in the 4 games Harrison missed last year before pulling his hamstring. Everybody knows about his slow starts. That's nothing new. But when he gets going, he is among the best in the league at what he does. And he obviously has more than just a bull rush...all you have to do is watch the games to know that.

tony hipchest
05-20-2012, 04:09 PM
These positions are entirely different and are played as such. I really love Woodley and Harrison both and you should just be damn proud to be a Steelers fan and have the best damn bookends in the league together on one team!

:applaudit:

i love me some woodley and harrison.

its just gravy that they both are great (yes, i said "great" in regards to woodley) players, but both seem to be great and charitable steelers off the field as well.

Steeldude
05-20-2012, 04:45 PM
Do you have numbers/facts on how often Harrison or Woodley are left 1-on-1 vs a single lineman, that doesn't seem to be an easy stat to compile

From what I have seen it's Harrison getting double or tripled. Woodley is usually solo-blocked by either the RT, TE or RB. It seems to me a lone TE is usually blocking Woodley. Putting a TE on Harrison would be a disaster for an offense.

Steelersfan87
05-20-2012, 05:00 PM
Woodley does get his fair share of double teams. I recall in the Tennessee game, he got past the RT and the RB was trying to block him, so he just reached beyond the RB and sacked him along with the QB.

steelerchad
05-20-2012, 05:31 PM
1. Teams run right far more than they run left meaning that Harrison sees the run less
2. Harrison is generally coming on the blindside of the quarterback making him far harder to locate and more likely to gain a sack
3. Most long runs on us have been to the left, not to say Harrison is inferior in stopping the run, but it certainly should make you question your belief in just that

These positions are entirely different and are played as such. I really love Woodley and Harrison both and you should just be damn proud to be a Steelers fan and have the best damn bookends in the league together on one team!

Harrison is going against the best blocker on the team usually in the LT and he still gets double teamed or chip help from a back or TE. Harrison is also held on almost every play as we all know and it's rarely called. Harrison should be a top 10 guy, but I doubt he will be.
I'm OK with Woodley where he is, but he is not dominant like Harrison has been. When is the last time we have had an OLB that hasn't been very good?

I mean Jason Gildon, Joey Porter, Kevin Greene, Greg Lloyd, Mike Merriweather, Jack Hamm. There is a long list of very productive OLBer's. The OLBer's in our system are suppossed to clean up with the front 3 holding up the other teams front 5. Some of this is system generated.

pancake
05-20-2012, 06:18 PM
I agree that Harrison is better than Woodley, but Woodley is younger and we haven't seen the best of him yet.

dyce23
05-20-2012, 08:42 PM
I think you guys are underestimating how good of a player Woodley is. I know a lot of Steeler faithful are huge fans of Harrison, and I agree that he brings an energy that Woodley doesn't. I also know that what I'm about to say isn't a popular opinion around Steeler Nation, but I actually feel that Woodley has a higher ceiling than Harrison. They're neck and neck in terms of talent at the moment, in my opinion, but Woodley has a better arsenal of pass rushing moves, along with the same type of bull rush that Harrison provides, and he is better in coverage (of course, James still has one of the greatest coverage plays in the history of the game to his credit!). I saw a couple posters mention that Woodley isn't as good in run stopping situations, so I'll have to keep an eye on that to see if it's true or not. I haven't noticed Woodley make many mistakes in the past though. Both guys are dominant at their positions, but Woodley does tend to start slow. Hopefully we don't have to worry about injuries to either one of our OLBs this year though, so that should help a little.

steeltheone
05-20-2012, 11:05 PM
It really makes no difference to me who is better...The problem is no interior pass rush!

dyce23
05-21-2012, 06:28 AM
It really makes no difference to me who is better...The problem is no interior pass rush!

Agreed. As long as we're healthy this year, I don't think we'll have any problems getting to the QB though. I hope I'm right! :tt02:

finesward
05-21-2012, 06:44 AM
Wow woodley a better pass rusher than Harrison? Scratching my head on that one. Harrison has speed to go around and the size to get leverage. He can go around u or through you, which makes him so dangerous. Woodley has no speed pass rush. He loops wide and the qb simply steps up to avoid him. It's no coincidence woodley got all those sacks last year.when we played with a #1 pass defense. Like I said coverage sacks... As far as stats there are game analysis on him out there at other steeler sites breaking down his snaps and who is blocking.him.

dyce23
05-21-2012, 07:01 AM
Yeah, I know it isn't a popular opinion, but I truly feel Woodley has the higher ceiling. I don't know how anyone can say either doesn't have a speed or a bull rush, but, in my opinion, Woodley has better hands when battling and has spin/swim moves that are very effective. It's rare that I see Harrison use moves to get by blockers. Usually, he bull rushes them, but sometimes he'll loop around. When he does speed rush, he is one of the best at gaining leverage, but I hardly ever see James shed blocks with an arsenal of moves. He's just completely DOMINANT at what he does, though, so there's no need in having a huge move set. Woodley does everything Harrison does, but with a little less leverage on his speed rushes and a much larger move set. At least that's my opinion. I really am looking forward to watching some game film to see if Woodley is indeed only average against the run, though. I've never really paid much attention to which of the two stuffs the run better, but I'll keep an eye on it this year. I'm just glad we have both of them, because I honestly think they're the two most complete OLBs in the league.

Kingmagyar
05-21-2012, 09:23 AM
Wow woodley a better pass rusher than Harrison? Scratching my head on that one. Harrison has speed to go around and the size to get leverage. He can go around u or through you, which makes him so dangerous. Woodley has no speed pass rush. He loops wide and the qb simply steps up to avoid him. It's no coincidence woodley got all those sacks last year.when we played with a #1 pass defense. Like I said coverage sacks... As far as stats there are game analysis on him out there at other steeler sites breaking down his snaps and who is blocking.him.

I do believe James Harrison is the better overall linebacker healthy, but you can't compare Woodley to him because Harrison is one of those special guys that is heads above everyone else. But to say Woodley gets coverage sacks because we were ranked the number one pass defense is ludicrous.

Woodley in 70 career regular season games has 48 sacks. I guess we don't need to pay him so much when we could get a guy like Jarret Johnson who's had 20 career sacks in 143 games. I'm sure our pass coverage will be so good he'll turn into Woodley!

Harrison has only 10 more career regular season sacks then Woodley at 58 but it's taken him 47 more games to do so.

Woodley also has 11 sacks in the playoffs to Harrison's 6.5 during that same span.

OLBs are judged first and foremost by sacks, that's how they make probowls and that's how they get in the hall of fame. Woodley is an elite sack artist and Harrison is the real deal overall outside linebacker. And we got them both.

Jason Gilden holds the Steelers' all time record with 77. I think it's safe to say barring any kind of major injury for Woodley he will be the all time Steeler sack leader at the end of his career. and he will demolish that 77 sack record.

MDSteel15
05-21-2012, 09:31 AM
Meh, not really impressed with Woodley tbh. He can disappear for entire games, make the occasional sack when the QB runs into him, and often loops way too far around the tackle and leaves his running lane wide open. Don't get me wrong, he's a good LB but not great. James Harrison is a great LB. He does it all, and does it all well. He's much more stout vs. the run, has a better pass rush, and is by far a much bigger force than Woodley. When Woodley was out there wasn't much difference in play in Worilds. So does Worilds belong at #63? Wood gets the benefit of never leaving the field.

Are you insane??? WTH :doh:

finesward
05-21-2012, 10:09 AM
Are you insane??? WTH :doh:

Look at the almighty stats! His numbers were about the same as woodley. He may of even had a few more tackles than ol #63.

Woodley gets way too much credit because of his sack numbers imo. I just don't think he is this awesome player many of you think he is. His highest quality to me is his high motor, when he chooses to use it. To me it looks like he takes too many plays off.

finesward
05-21-2012, 10:12 AM
I do believe James Harrison is the better overall linebacker healthy, but you can't compare Woodley to him because Harrison is one of those special guys that is heads above everyone else. But to say Woodley gets coverage sacks because we were ranked the number one pass defense is ludicrous.

Woodley in 70 career regular season games has 48 sacks. I guess we don't need to pay him so much when we could get a guy like Jarret Johnson who's had 20 career sacks in 143 games. I'm sure our pass coverage will be so good he'll turn into Woodley!

Harrison has only 10 more career regular season sacks then Woodley at 58 but it's taken him 47 more games to do so.

Woodley also has 11 sacks in the playoffs to Harrison's 6.5 during that same span.

OLBs are judged first and foremost by sacks, that's how they make probowls and that's how they get in the hall of fame. Woodley is an elite sack artist and Harrison is the real deal overall outside linebacker. And we got them both.

Jason Gilden holds the Steelers' all time record with 77. I think it's safe to say barring any kind of major injury for Woodley he will be the all time Steeler sack leader at the end of his career. and he will demolish that 77 sack record.

Go back and look at all those sacks and count how many of them occurred longer than 3-4 seconds after the ball was snapped. :drink:

MDSteel15
05-21-2012, 11:53 AM
Go back and look at all those sacks and count how many of them occurred longer than 3-4 seconds after the ball was snapped. :drink:

That means he keeps working! Others would have given up... He's young and already a factor! Harrison took forever to figure it out and is about done. So I would say Woodley is definately in the running to be the better player overall.... Besides, it takes more than just those 2 to create a sack!

finesward
05-21-2012, 12:04 PM
That means he keeps working! Others would have given up... He's young and already a factor! Harrison took forever to figure it out and is about done. So I would say Woodley is definately in the running to be the better player overall.... Besides, it takes more than just those 2 to create a sack!

I completely agree, my point was he dismissed my claim that having a #1 pass defense influenced or inflated Woodley's sack #'s. He can be disruptive, especially when healthy.

Maybe I'm like most and just think back to what he's done recently. But even years when he's been healthy he has started off very slow for some reason. I'll stand by Harrison being the better at this point. Woodley I don't think has what it takes to rush from the other side going up against 2 blockers. He's best when he can loop around or go up against a mismatch like a TE of RB. When he gets locked up vs. any capable RT he struggles to win those battles.

MDSteel15
05-22-2012, 07:15 AM
But if the guys next to him are doing their job, he doesn't have to work as hard because he also is getting double teamed....