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View Full Version : Ed Bouchette- others in org hated Bruce Arians offense


tony hipchest
05-23-2012, 11:26 AM
...haters.

--- I am learning more about Bruce Arians and the dislike for his style now that he’s gone. You might remember Joe Greene’s comments to me the week of the Super Bowl; he was pretty worked up about how bad the offense was and the lack of commitment to the running game. My question is, if Joe Greene and Art Rooney and others could see it, why couldn’t Mike Tomlin, who said at his opening press conference when he was named coach that he was committed to the running game and that football was a game of “attrition?’’


what ed is saying is that we still dont know to what level this man and his shitty playcalling was despised within the organization.

hater.

i give tomlin a pass as every HC is going to make mistakes, as long as he learns from them.

Atlanta Dan
05-23-2012, 11:36 AM
...haters.

--- I am learning more about Bruce Arians and the dislike for his style now that he’s gone.

Sounds like everyone at the mean girls table in the high school cafeteria saying they never liked someone only after that person transferred to another school:chuckle:

Sixburgher
05-23-2012, 11:37 AM
Which kind of begs the question of why it took five years to make a change if he was so universally despised.

Merchant
05-23-2012, 11:43 AM
Which kind of begs the question of why it took five years to make a change if he was so universally despised.

Ben seemed to have liked him a lot. And keep in mind there were two superbowls in that five year time span. So it's difficult to fire a member of your coaching staff following a championship season.

Sixburgher
05-23-2012, 11:49 AM
Sounds like everyone at the mean girls table in the high school cafeteria saying they never liked someone only after that person transferred to another school:chuckle:

Yes, it does. And for a so-called professional who writes this stuff for a living, that's not really a good thing.

tony hipchest
05-23-2012, 11:51 AM
Which kind of begs the question of why it took five years to make a change if he was so universally despised.

loaded question :jerkit:

read the last line in post #1. actually ed asks the question as well.

it is WAY to melodramatic and overexaggerated to suggest he was universally despised for the ENTIRE 5 years he was OC.

its an oversimplistic argument barely worth entertaining.

OF COURSE a brand new rookie HC wasnt going to fire the OC after their first year on the job (a year they made the playoffs but offensively shit the bed).

they WON the superbowl their 2nd year.

it is my belief arians didnt begin to become "universally despised" (your LOADED words and question, not mine), until that 09 game in cleveland where he thought tossing the ball 50 times in a frozen hurricaine was a good idea.

the same stretch of games (5 game losing streak) where his offense struggled to score on 3 of the worst teams/defenses in the entire NFL.

:hunch:

Steelers>NFL
05-23-2012, 11:52 AM
Ben seemed to have liked him a lot. And keep in mind there were two superbowls in that five year time span. So it's difficult to fire a member of your coaching staff following a championship season.

Yeah, but they won 2 SB despite of the inept offense. Maybe could have won more, maybe? :noidea: But I am SO glad BA is GONE......:wave:
Anyone who is fired from the Browns should not we working for the Steelers. :mad:

Sixburgher
05-23-2012, 11:54 AM
loaded question :jerkit:

read the last line in post #1. actually ed asks the question as well.

it is WAY to melodramatic and overexaggerated to suggest he was universally despised for the ENTIRE 5 years he was OC.

its an oversimplistic argument barely worth entertaining.

OF COURSE a brand new rookie HC wasnt going to fire the OC after their first year on the job (a year they made the playoffs but offensively shit the bed).

they WON the superbowl their 2nd year.

it is my belief arians didnt begin to become "universally despised" (your LOADED words and question, not mine), until that 09 game in cleveland where he thought tossing the ball 50 times in a frozen hurricaine was a good idea.

the same stretch of games (5 game losing streak) where his offense struggled to score on 3 of the worst teams/defenses in the entire NFL.

:hunch:

Yeah, I know. He's the worst coordinator in NFL history. :blah: :blah: :blah:

For all the folks bitching that Ben needs to stop bitching and get over Arians being gone and move on already, it seems to me they need to take their own advice.

tony hipchest
05-23-2012, 11:55 AM
Yes, it does. And for a so-called professional who writes this stuff for a living, that's not really a good thing.that so called professional owner, art rooney II shoulda given arians an extension because ben and a hand full of fans really, really liked him. mean joe green, needs to keep his mout shut as well.

as for the "others"... well, i guess they are just haters too.

tony hipchest
05-23-2012, 12:00 PM
For all the folks bitching that Ben needs to stop bitching and get over Arians being gone and move on already, it seems to me they need to take their own advice.

all them folks (fans) need to quit taking so many sacks as well.

Atlanta Dan
05-23-2012, 12:13 PM
Yes, it does. And for a so-called professional who writes this stuff for a living, that's not really a good thing.

I agree that if players (and, although I doubt it, coaches) are telling Ed. B. of the P-G of their dislike for Arians methods it is unprofessional of those players and other sources to trash someone only after they are gone. But I do not see how Ed. B. is being unprofessional by reporting what he is told.

Fire Arians
05-23-2012, 12:40 PM
i hated his offense too

Atlanta Dan
05-23-2012, 01:38 PM
i hated his offense too

But you got in on the ground floor as opposed to the recent converts cited by Ed.B.:chuckle:

MACH1
05-23-2012, 04:12 PM
loaded question :jerkit:

read the last line in post #1. actually ed asks the question as well.

it is WAY to melodramatic and overexaggerated to suggest he was universally despised for the ENTIRE 5 years he was OC.

its an oversimplistic argument barely worth entertaining.

OF COURSE a brand new rookie HC wasnt going to fire the OC after their first year on the job (a year they made the playoffs but offensively shit the bed).

they WON the superbowl their 2nd year.

it is my belief arians didnt begin to become "universally despised" (your LOADED words and question, not mine), until that 09 game in cleveland where he thought tossing the ball 50 times in a frozen hurricaine was a good idea.

the same stretch of games (5 game losing streak) where his offense struggled to score on 3 of the worst teams/defenses in the entire NFL.

:hunch:

Things probably went further south after the meddling owner told his OC to run the ball more effectively and that didn't exactly happen.
I know, I know it's all the o lines fault. :rolleyes:

Steelersfan87
05-23-2012, 04:52 PM
In fairness, I do believe that Arians did meet his own interpretation of Rooney's words about running the ball more effectively; in 2010, for example, Mendenhall did have a fair amount of success scoring touchdowns in the red zone, and putting Redman in the short yardage role significantly increased their 3rd and 4th and short conversion rate.

Ricco Suavez
05-23-2012, 09:31 PM
Steelers are about defense. But to say the Steelers won two SB with defense is far from the truth. Sure the defense is the glue throughout the season but come playoff time, you have got to have the offense step up and and win big game. Both seasons we won the SB the offense stepped up at the right time. First win in 05 Cowher turned a second year QB lose in the playoffs and he responded with almost perfect play against Cincy, Indy, and Denver. Yea, yea, yea, let me stop you I have heard this before, "but he sucked in the SB and the defense bailed him out". No argument from me there, but to win the big one you got to get there first, and as a second year QB and the youngest Winning SB QB ever BEn did more than his share that playoff season. Fast forward to our last SB win and after our defense gave up two late scores, it was the offense that moved the ball 90+ yds to score in the last two minutes.

I LOVE our defense, I repeat I LOVE our defense , yet the offense gets too much blame and not near the credit it deserves. Our offense did some things very well last year, led the league in Time of Possesion and third down conversions. I thought we did a LOT of things well, yet I think it was time for Arians to go, and I am anxious to see the NEW and hopefully "improved" version this year, but lets not forget it may take some time for everything to gel. Personally I hope we start steady and improve as the season progresses peaking come playoff time. The key to any playoff run is PEAKING at the right time, just ask the NY Giants.

lipps83
05-23-2012, 09:44 PM
Which kind of begs the question of why it took five years to make a change if he was so universally despised.

Ben and Bruce were best friends. Arians' had Ben convinced that his totally awesome offensive playbook was going to put the both of them in the hall of fame.

1st and 10. Throw it deep.
2nd and 10. WR bubble screen.
2nd and inches. Throw it deep.
3rd and 10. Throw it deep.
3rd and inches and just in Field Goal range? Take a sack.

lloydwoodson
05-24-2012, 12:42 AM
Yeah, I know. He's the worst coordinator in NFL history. :blah: :blah: :blah:

For all the folks bitching that Ben needs to stop bitching and get over Arians being gone and move on already, it seems to me they need to take their own advice.

Agreed.

TheVet
05-24-2012, 01:17 AM
Steelers are about defense. But to say the Steelers won two SB with defense is far from the truth. Sure the defense is the glue throughout the season but come playoff time, you have got to have the offense step up and and win big game. Both seasons we won the SB the offense stepped up at the right time. First win in 05 Cowher turned a second year QB lose in the playoffs and he responded with almost perfect play against Cincy, Indy, and Denver. Yea, yea, yea, let me stop you I have heard this before, "but he sucked in the SB and the defense bailed him out". No argument from me there, but to win the big one you got to get there first, and as a second year QB and the youngest Winning SB QB ever BEn did more than his share that playoff season. Fast forward to our last SB win and after our defense gave up two late scores, it was the offense that moved the ball 90+ yds to score in the last two minutes.

I don't think that folks are criticizing the offense of the 2005 SB team. That offense was vanilla and limited, but it was quite solid, perfectly professional, competently coached and well-executed.

It was the 2008 SB team that had the incoherent offense and the startlingly inept Offensive Coordinator. That 2008 SB was a miracle delivered by a defense for the ages, and Ben's ability to make something from nothing.

Steelersfan87
05-24-2012, 02:34 AM
In fairness, the 2008 season was the bottom of the barrel in terms of offensive line play. A lot of the bad offense that year had to do with how bad the o-line was except in the last 2 minutes of the game when the other team was in prevent mode.

bornaSteelersfan
05-24-2012, 04:01 AM
I don't think that folks are criticizing the offense of the 2005 SB team. That offense was vanilla and limited, but it was quite solid, perfectly professional, competently coached and well-executed.

It was the 2008 SB team that had the incoherent offense and the startlingly inept Offensive Coordinator. That 2008 SB was a miracle delivered by a defense for the ages, and Ben's ability to make something from nothing.

I definitely agree about that defense. Of course if Silverback doesn't get the TD to end the first half, The Cards win with Fitz holding up the trophy as MVP.

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/1208/pg2_2009harrison_576.jpg

TheVet
05-24-2012, 04:14 AM
Nice picture! That's on the short list of the very best Super Bowl plays ever, in my opinion.

TRH
05-24-2012, 08:11 AM
Nice picture! That's on the short list of the very best Super Bowl plays ever, in my opinion.


damn right it is. That play doesn't get nearly the respect it deserves. Can you imagine if it was the Ravens and Ray Lewis makes the exact same play?? It would still be shown on ESPN now 12 times a day.

steelfury02
05-24-2012, 08:59 AM
^Don't give me those kind of nightmares, please! I respect Ray Lewis, but enough with the stupid entrance dance and somewhere, there is a video montage to show his "number of tackles" where he is just piling on after the guy is already going to the ground.

Anywho - the 05 team had a possessed Joey Porter and an efficient, balanced offense, was still known to be a run-only team, and basically rope-a-doped everyone with the sudden suprise attack through the air all through the playoffs with trick plays that stuck a dagger through the heart. That about sums it up for me.

The 08' defense to me, was the best defense since the Steel Curtain days, ever (even more so than the 2000 Ravens). Yes, statistically the 00' Ravens D looks better on paper - but they did not have the outside pressure of Harrison and Woodley, along with one Troy P who was at the right place, every...single...time. Everyone was getting turnovers on that team. I remember Deshea intercepting Romo to win the game and knew at that point they weren't going to be denied. The offense that year, with all of its 3 quarters of inability, was C_L_U_T_C_H and thats all they needed to be that year with that defense. The 00 Ravens didn't have to face the QBS and WRs that the Steelers did so to me it was more impressive.

That is all.

Steelers>NFL
05-24-2012, 09:34 AM
^Don't give me those kind of nightmares, please! I respect Ray Lewis, but enough with the stupid entrance dance and somewhere, there is a video montage to show his "number of tackles" where he is just piling on after the guy is already going to the ground.

Anywho - the 05 team had a possessed Joey Porter and an efficient, balanced offense, was still known to be a run-only team, and basically rope-a-doped everyone with the sudden suprise attack through the air all through the playoffs with trick plays that stuck a dagger through the heart. That about sums it up for me.

The 08' defense to me, was the best defense since the Steel Curtain days, ever (even more so than the 2000 Ravens). Yes, statistically the 00' Ravens D looks better on paper - but they did not have the outside pressure of Harrison and Woodley, along with one Troy P who was at the right place, every...single...time. Everyone was getting turnovers on that team. I remember Deshea intercepting Romo to win the game and knew at that point they weren't going to be denied. The offense that year, with all of its 3 quarters of inability, was C_L_U_T_C_H and thats all they needed to be that year with that defense. The 00 Ravens didn't have to face the QBS and WRs that the Steelers did so to me it was more impressive.

That is all.

But the 2000 Ravens did not have a good QB. Steelers had Big Ben. Big difference. Steelers could and did rely on Big Ben to win the SB in the end. Ravens D did not have to rely on the offense at all. Just sayin...

lipps83
05-24-2012, 10:51 AM
But the 2000 Ravens did not have a good QB. Steelers had Big Ben. Big difference. Steelers could and did rely on Big Ben to win the SB in the end. Ravens D did not have to rely on the offense at all. Just sayin...

Absolutely. The Ravens pitched 4 shutouts. The Steelers had one meaningless one in the last game of the season against the lowly Browns.

The Ravens did not have a QB and did not need one. They gave up the fewest points ever in a 16 game season, by a long shot too. 60 fewer points than the 2008 Steelers.

I like the Steelers as much as anyone, but to say that the 2008 defense is better than the 2000 Ravens is about as biased as one can get.

You can run a poll of all NFL fans which defense was better and the only people that would pick the Steelers defense are Steelers fans, and most of them are smart enough as well to know that there hasn't been a defense better than the 2000 Ravens.

The only defense that comes close is the Steelers 76 defense, but they did not win a Super Bowl so are not really in the running.

mikeyg
05-24-2012, 11:18 AM
you can't believe anything Douchette says - he is a cool aid drinking homer.

he is a steelers apologist, homer - we all knew ARIANS sucked! for years

Sixburgher
05-24-2012, 01:50 PM
Ben and Bruce were best friends. Arians' had Ben convinced that his totally awesome offensive playbook was going to put the both of them in the hall of fame.

Sorry, that explanation doesn't cut any ice after what happened in Georgia in the Spring of 2010.

Sixburgher
05-24-2012, 01:52 PM
you can't believe anything Douchette says - he is a cool aid drinking homer.

he is a steelers apologist, homer - we all knew ARIANS sucked! for years

Reading comprehension much?

Edman
05-24-2012, 02:15 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxAr_p99_uU&feature=related

Case In Point, why the Arians Offense is garbage. 429 yards of Offense. Only 23 points. Only 6 in the second half.

The game was still in doubt because the Offense couldn't score.