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Hawaii 5-0
05-26-2012, 03:56 PM
Are The Steelers Set At Kicker And Punter?

May 26th, 2012 by DomSteelers

http://nicepickcowher.com/files/2012/05/57490201-300x199.jpg?e98d57

While the Steelers’ Kicking and Punting games were not by any means the “Achilles heels’” of the team in 2011, they were not what you would call “elite” or something to write home about either. Nevertheless, both Kicker Shaun Suisham and Punter Jeremy Kapinos, the duo which held the starting spots at Kicker and Punter when the 2011 season ended, currently have their names etched at the top of the depth chart at their respective positions. I must however ask the following questions in regards to Suisham and Kapinos: Are the Steelers really comfortable with both Suisham and Kapinos entering 2012? Does the franchise have any legitimate competition for the projected starters as the summer rolls along? Will the competition be able to push or overtake the starters? With those questions in mind, today I will be sharing my thoughts and musings on Pittsburgh’s Kicker and Punter situations:

Punter Situation

Before I begin, I must say that liked Daniel Sepulveda as a Punter, and during his tenure in Pittsburgh he did a solid enough job. The unfortunate part about Sepulveda though was the fact that he missed so much time with injuries and the team was forced to call on mid-season signees three times in six years to replace him (I take a cold shower and cry when I think about Mitch Berger and Paul Ernster and their 30 yard shank boots). Because of Sepulveda’s knee injuries, Pittsburgh’s brass made the sensible financial and football move and showed him the door after the 2011 season ended. Now that Sepulveda is gone, his mid-season replacement in the last two seasons, Jeremy Kapinos, appears to have his best chance to win the full-time job.

To his credit, Kapinos chipped in and did an adequate job after Sepulveda went down with his injuries down the stretch in 2010 and 2011. Over 12 regular season games with the Steelers, Kapinos logged 48 Punts for 2106 Yards for a 43.9 Yards Per Punt average. In 2011, Kapinos averaged a career high 45.0 Yards Per Punt and tied his career long with a 59 Yard boot. Still, Kapinos has yet to prove himself over a full season with the club (not his fault because he was called up at mid-season both times, and he did start all 16 games with Green Bay during the 2009 season), and will face a stiff challenge for his job from Rookie UDFA Drew Butler over the coming months.

Butler, whose Father was long-time Chicago Bears Kicker and Bulldog alum Kevin Butler, had himself a fine career at Georgia where he started for three years. Butler’s best season came as a Sophomore when he won the Ray Guy Award in 2009. During that season, Butler logged 56 Punts for 2,691 Yards, and led the nation with a 48.1 Yards Per Punt clip. Over his next two seasons, Butler’s Yards Per Punt statistics sank just a bit (2010: 44.5 (19th) and 2011: 44.2 (18th) as well), but he produced on an efficient basis and established himself as one of the best and most consistent Punters in the nation. Butler did such a fine job for the Bulldogs that he was named to the Georgia’s All-Decade Team for his accomplishments on the field, and was also recognized for his work in the classroom when he earned a National Football Foundation (NFF) Scholar Athlete Award.

http://nicepickcowher.com/files/2012/05/4916866-188x300.jpg?e98d57

It should be an interesting competition between Kapinos and Butler because of the fact that Butler was a bit of a shock to go undrafted. I am glad that the Steelers picked up a quality Punter like Butler who has potential, and did not have to use a draft pick to do it. I am at least comfortable with Kapinos shouldering the load, and he has a decent amount of experience. Nevertheless, I would like to see what Butler can do when given his chance. If Butler ends up panning out, it would be a huge steal for the club which was able to add depth in Rounds 5-7 to other positions of need. I really do not mind who steps up and takes the job, I just want the club to find an answer and gain some stability at the Punter position.

Kicker Situation

While I am at least comfortable with Kapinos as the Punter if he indeed wins the job outright, I cannot feel the same way about Shaun Suisham entering this season. Let me first start off by saying that Steelers were a bit spoiled by the consistency of Jeff Reed from the 2007-2009 seasons. During that three-year stretch, there were few, if any, Kickers that were able to produce and produce as well as Skippy did. I for one was able to ignore Reed’s odd behavior towards bathroom towel dispensers and “Doc Brown” hairdo because of his (77 of 87) 88.5% Field Goal percentage, and his ability to hit clutch kicks. Reed for whatever reason tanked bad in 2010, and was cut after hitting only 15 of 22 (68.1%) Field Goals through the first 9 games of the season.

After being almost money when he was signed at midseason for the then-erratic Reed, Suisham did a terrific job. Over 2010′s final 7 weeks, Suisham went 14 of 15 on Field Goal Attempts (93.3%), and nailed 8 of 9 from 40+ Yards away. Then however, the postseason began, and Suisham began to have some consistency issues as he missed two Field Goals in the three Playoff games.

Then during 2011, Suisham’s accuracy remained a tad off, and it really showed on Field Goals from 30+ Yards as well. Suisham went 23 for 31 (74.2%) on his Field Goals during his first full year with the Steelers, and most shockingly went 13 for 21 (61.9%) on Field Goals from 30+ Yards away. To be fair, Suisham’s career Field Goal average is (124 of 156) 79.5%, and in his combined career with the Steelers he has performed at just about that level at a (37 of 46) 80.4% clip. Yet with Suisham’s recent struggles, the team signed Undrafted Rookie Danny Hrapmann from Southern Mississippi to put some heat on him over the coming months.

http://nicepickcowher.com/files/2012/05/5553778-236x300.jpg?e98d57

Hrapmann showed flashes of being a terrific Kicker at Southern Mississippi during his career, and was even named a 1st Team All-American by the Walter Camp Foundation in 2010. That season, Hrapmann went 26 of 31 (83.9%) on Field Goals, 55 of 55 on PAT’s, which gave him 133 Points overall. His Points totals ranked him 3rd in the country in Scoring, 3rd in the country in Field Goals, and he made 8 of his 11 Field Goals from 40+ Yards away.

Unfortunately for Hrapmann, his Senior campaign was marred by some inconsistency, and his Draft stock slipped so much that he was not even selected by a team last month. Hrapmann’s Field Goal percentage slipped greatly down to 67.6% (23 of 34) and was a tad off from long distance as he went 7 for 16 on Field Goals from 40+ Yards away. Yet that is not to say that Hrapmann’s 2011 season was terrible. He ranked 3rd in total Field Goals again with 23, ranked tied for 10th overall in total Points with 130, and made 61 of his 62 Extra Points on the year. Hrapmann even played hero in a couple of games last season, as he most notably went 5 for 5 in a 30-29 win over Central Florida, and three of his Kicks were from over 40 Yards (42, 44, 48) as the Eagles triumphed that night.

For a smaller guy (5’9″ 164 lbs.), Hrapmann has a pretty big leg (15 Field Goals of 40+ Yards over the last two seasons), which should help him kick in cold and wintery conditions. The question will be whether or not he is the 2010 version of himself accuracy-wise not the 2011 version of himself accuracy-wise. Thus, Hrapmann will have to be at his best to unseat the veteran Suisham will really have to have a bad Training Camp and Preseason to lose the Kicker job. Like the Punter position, I do not mind who wins the job, I just want the Steelers to find a consistent answer at said spot.

Final Thoughts

So what will end up happening with the Kicker and Punter positions? I believe that Kapinos and Butler will probably battle until the final days of the preseason until a clear victor emerges. I am sure the Steelers are well aware of what Kapinos can do, but it will be intriguing to see if Butler can overtake him for the job and the roster spot. In regards to Suisham and Hrapmann, I hope at least one of them rekindles the consistency which they both possessed in 2010. Either guy I am fine with having, just as long as one can prove they can do the job on a regular basis and kick in the muck come late in the season.

Heinz Field’s turf is a complete and total slop-fest come the end of November, and steady Special Teams play will be needed on all fronts. Probably the place it will be needed most is in the Kicking Game, and especially when the Steelers head towards the open end of the stadium. I will be keeping my fingers crossed for the next few months, and hope that some long-term answers emerge. The Steelers can ill-afford to have shoddy Special Teams play, and it would be nice if two of these four players stepped up their games in 2012 and beyond.

http://nicepickcowher.com/2012/05/26/are-the-steelers-set-at-kicker-and-punter/

steeltheone
05-26-2012, 04:06 PM
Its always a plus to have an NFL pedigree!..... Butler

tanda10506
05-26-2012, 06:16 PM
Either way we will be fine at Punter, very few punters actually make a difference in the game. Some can really help like Shane Lechler, some can hinder you like Mitch Berger, but most punters make decent kicks consistently. As for the kicker, we need Hrapmann to succeed. It's not just consistency, we pass on FG's that could add points because Suisham has poor accuracy at 40+ and can barely even get it there at 50. When we are on the opponents 35 and we are stuck between going for 4th and 15 or punting, it would help to be able to put 3 points on the board instead, or at least be able to take a confident shot at it.

Kingmagyar
05-27-2012, 11:22 AM
It will be very hard for Butler to unseat Kapinos. Kapinos has that 45 yard avg and has kicked in a super bowl and cold weather playoff games without an error. I suppose it would have to do with hang time if Butler could overtake him.

The real question is will Hrapman get enough shots in the preseason to make an incredible impression? If he misses just one he's done.

Bayz101
05-27-2012, 11:59 AM
I like our punter situation, but S.S. scares the piss out of me from 25+ :chuckle:

wyn50
05-29-2012, 04:46 PM
Ditto that on S.S.
I hope steelers score so much that it won't matter on coming down to field goals. :)

TheVet
05-30-2012, 12:11 AM
After watching the Steelers hire a real Offensive Coordinator, upgrading our OL from a weakness to a strength, and generally scoring so well in the draft, it almost seems too greedy to hope for an upgrade at kicker.

On the other hand, the Steelers really owe us fans for making us put up with all those years of Arians. So we're even. Lets go get a kicker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TRH
05-30-2012, 08:07 AM
I like our punter situation, but S.S. scares the piss out of me from 25+ :chuckle:


exactly.
If i was going to nail it down, i'd say anything over, lets say 37, 38, i'm 100% zero confident.
I hope they put a little more work into finding a great kicker. Look how many games are decided by FG's....some guys make 3, 4 a game and its the difference between a W and a loss.

Hawaii 5-0
05-31-2012, 11:57 PM
looks like the Ravens may not be all that thrilled with their kicker either: :sign02:


AFC North Notes: Ravens sign a kicker

May 31, 2012
Bob Labriola - Steelers Digest

ITEM: Cundiff will have competition for job

The Baltimore Ravens had a chance to send last season’s AFC Championship Game into overtime, but when Billy Cundiff missed a 32-yard field goal attempt it was the New England Patriots who advanced to Super Bowl XLVI.

The team has signed undrafted rookie Justin Tucker on May 29, and while the former Texas Longhorns placekicker is a bit of a long shot to unseat Cundiff, he will bring a strong leg to the competition.

Tucker was something of a star at the Ravens rookie minicamp. He hit a 55-yard field goal to end one practice and then was perfect in four attempts inside the 50-yard line on another day. When asked about Tucker at that time, Ravens Coach John Harbaugh said, “He gets really good lift on the ball, very accurate. He had a very good camp.”

Tucker was 40-for-48 on his field goal attempts in college.

“I look forward to it, coming in and competing against a guy that’s had success in the league,” Tucker told Ravens.com. “It’ll be a challenge, but it will be fun.”

http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/AFC-North-Notes-Ravens-sign-a-kicker/efbd6a99-1033-41f0-bfe1-b0e6a1760c75

Hawaii 5-0
06-28-2012, 03:41 PM
Butler Likes His Chances Of Beating Out Kapinos For The Steelers Punting Job

Wednesday, June 27th, 2012 by Dave Bryan

Undrafted free agent punter Drew Butler likes his chances of beating out Jeremy Kapinos in training camp and he said as much in an interview last week on 680 The Fan.

Butler of course is the son of former Chicago Bears kicker Kevin Butler, who kicked for 13 seasons in the NFL. Drew, like his dad, played at the University of Georgia, where he won the Ray Guy Award in 2009.

Butler was asked last week if he was pleased to land with the Steelers. "Without a doubt. I mean the Pittsburgh Steelers are/is the best organization in the National Football League. There's no doubt about it," said Butler. The city of Pittsburgh is fantastic. The fans are obsessive over the Steelers and that's the way it should be. I am very pleased and honored to be part of the organization."

Butler continued on about the off-season thus far for him. "Organized team activities went well. The mandatory mini camp went well two weeks ago and now I'm back in Duluth (Georgia) preparing for training camp," said Butler. "So it's been a huge honor. Its been a great learning curve the past month and a half, but it's something that expected to happen and I think I gained a lot of knowledge and I'm going to go into training camp knowing what to expect to some degree. And I'm just going to keep my head down, keep working hard and give my best to make sure I achieve my goals."

Butler was asked if he thought that he has a legitimate chance to make the team this year. "I think without a doubt. They had a punter there the past couple of years, his name was Daniel Sepulveda, who won the Ray Guy Award twice and he ran into some injury issues and they didn't resign him in free agency," said Butler. "So the guy that finished the season last year is still there and it's him and I. I think that it's definitely a good opportunity for me to start or else I wouldn't have gone there in the first place. So I'm thrilled with the opportunity. I know that it's going to be up to me and that's the way I like it."

The other guy that Butler refers to is of course Kapinos, who finished with a 45 yard average on 34 punts last season after taking over for the injured Sepulveda. Butler had a 45.2 yard average on 168 punts during his college career with 58 of them over 50 yards. Like Kapinos, Butler also is able to hold on placekicks.

This battle figures to be wide open in training camp and Butler does have youth on his side. If it is close, the nod will likely go to Butler.

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/butler_likes_his_chances_of_beating_out_kapinos_fo r_the_steelers_punting_job/11101223

Hawaii 5-0
07-03-2012, 12:36 AM
2012 Pittsburgh Steelers Training Camp Roster Battles: Kickers

Monday, July 2nd, 2012 by Dave Bryan

The calendar has now flipped over to July and that means that as of today that there is only 23 days left until the Pittsburgh Steelers report to Latrobe for training camp. Today we continue on with our look at the training camp roster battles for the Steelers by looking at the kicking position.

The Steelers currently have just two kickers on the roster in the form of Shaun Suisham and Danny Hrapmann, and by the looks of things right now that won't change from now until training camp begins. Let's now have a look at both.

Shaun Suisham - Suisham was given a four-year deal prior to the start of the 2011 season and proceeded to go 23-of-31 in field goal attempts in the regular season for a 74.2 percentage. 2 of his 8 misses came inside 39 yards and it included a blocked 30-yard attempt against the Houston Texans in week 4 that would have resulted in a touchdown had the Texans not been penalized for an illegal block in the back during the return. Suisham also was 7-of-12 from 40-49 yards and 1-of-2 from 50 plus yards out. To his credit he was perfect on all of his extra point attempts last season. Of his 72 kickoffs last season Suisham averaged a distance of 66.5 yards and had just 28 touchbacks. The deal the Steelers gave Suisham means absolutely nothing at this point as he can be released at any time prior to the start of the regular season and it would result in just a $337,500 dead money hit in 2012 and a $675,000 dead money hit in 2013. Unless better competition is signed between now and the start of training camp to challenge him, he is the favorite to be the Steelers kicker once again this season.

Danny Hrapmann - The Steelers initially signed Missouri kicker Grant Ressel as an undrafted free agent following the draft, but released him right after the rookie camp. Hrapmann, a 2010 Lou Groza Award finalist out of Southern Miss, was signed to replace Ressel after beating out veteran Dave Rayner and former East Carolina kicker Michael Barber in an early May try-out. In his career at USM, Hrapmann made 130-of-132 extra points and connected on 53-of-71 field goals for a 74.6 percentage.

Is this really a wide open kicker battle? I guess anything can happen, but Suisham would have to tank and Hrapmann would have to make every kick opportunity he gets in the preseason and excel on kickoffs. Several teams carry two place kickers in training camp, so if neither Suisham nor Hrapmann prove to be reliable, the Steelers very well could wind up watching the waiver wire for another option. Former Steelers kicker Jeff Reed is currently still a free agent as well and is hoping for one last shot. Reed says he has stayed in contact with General Manager Kevin Colbert this off-season, but nothing seems imminent on that front. One thing is for certain with the kicker situation this season and that is another sub 80% year can't be tolerated from a kicker.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/07/2012-pittsburgh-steelers-training-camp-roster-battles-kickers/

Hawaii 5-0
07-19-2012, 04:39 PM
Pittsburgh Steelers training camp battle: Jeremy Kapinos versus Drew Butler

Submitted by Syndicated sources on July 19, 2012

As the Pittsburgh Steelers move toward training camp, there is one battle position battle that may fly under the RADAR for many fans, punter. The Steelers have two players in camp and as of now the only thing, separating them is game experience.When training camp opens, a familiar face for Steelers fans, Jeremy Kapinos, returns and will sit atop the depth chart. The exclusive rights free agent has been solid in his short stints with the team, but is by no means a lock for the opening day roster.For his career, the former undrafted rookie free agent from Penn State, has been in and out of the league since 2007 when he signed with the New York Jets. In all he has played with four NFL teams kicking 136 punts, for a 43.2-yard average (37.5 net).

During training camp, he will find potentially stiff competition from another undrafted rookie free agent in Drew Butler from the University of Georgia. Butler, who has NFL bloodlines being the son of former NFL kicker Kevin Butler, was a three-year starter and effective punter for the Bulldogs. During his career, he was a two-time All-America selection and the 2009 winner of the Ray Guy Award for the nation’s top punter.

More of more of a technician than a naturally athletic punter, he does not have elite leg strength and may struggle in the elements. However, he is technically sound and has adequate leg strength and accuracy. In fact, the 6-2, 214-pound punter may be one of the more consistent punters to hit the league this year, averaging 44.35 yards per punt with an average of 20 punts per season downed inside the 20-yard line over the past two seasons.

In the end, Butler is a talented punter with the bloodlines to make it in the NFL. If he can stay consistent and not go into slumps, he has a chance to stick. One thing is certain, this will definitely be one of the more interesting training camp battles at Latrobe in August.

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/pittsburgh_steelers_training_camp_battle_jeremy_ka pinos_versus_drew_butler/11253427

Steelboy84
07-20-2012, 07:09 AM
Sepulveda was a rare weapon at the punter position.

FrancoLambert
07-20-2012, 07:37 AM
I can live with Kapinos, he's done well for us, and I can't remember a "Mitch Berger moment" with him.
Suisham is mediocre. I don't have any confidence in him hitting a 45 yarder to tie or win a game.
An upgrade at PK would be a nice bonus with all of the other anticipated improvement.

jiminpa
07-21-2012, 05:33 PM
"Doink" Suisham needs to get on with his life's work, and it's not football. Seriously, the guy makes me long for Kris Brown.

Ironman55
07-22-2012, 09:21 PM
I like our punter situation, but S.S. scares the piss out of me from 25+ :chuckle:

I second that one Bayz!! I don't have confidence in him at all!! Hopefully we just score TD's and don't have to worry about FG's :-)

Atlanta Dan
07-22-2012, 09:30 PM
Sepulveda was a rare weapon at the punter position.

Rare as in rarely not injured

Ed.B. of the P-G, who was out front on the lack of wisdom on trading up in the draft to pick Sepulveda, thought Kapinos shoudl have won the job in training camp to start the 2011 season. Steelers were fortunate Kapinos was around when Sepulveda broke down again.

Punter position seems fine. I agree with other posters who have no confidence in Suisham to make a money kick

Steelersfan87
07-22-2012, 09:55 PM
I'm not all that worried about Suisham. He's better than his reputation. I also don't see any affordable improvements lying about either.

Hawaii 5-0
07-22-2012, 10:08 PM
I'm not all that worried about Suisham. He's better than his reputation.

Suisham's field-goal percentage was 31st in the league last season...

Steelersfan87
07-22-2012, 10:25 PM
And? In 2010 he was 14 out of 15. In one game he went 4 for 4 from 40+. The Steelers put him in a few bad positions early in the season last year that resulted in some missed field goals. I believe they also even had one blocked. He really settled down later on in the season.

I'm not exactly arguing for him to receive a Pro Bowl nod. He's just an average kicker. He's not really an asset nor a liability on a consistent basis.

Steelersfan87
07-22-2012, 11:18 PM
Shaun Suisham's misses in 2011:

Week 1: no attempts
Week 2: Seahawks in Pittsburgh. 41 yarder wide right from left hashmark in the 4th quarter, score 24-10. (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d8225b8f9/Suisham-41-yd-missed-FG) Made a 20 yarder.
Week 3: At Indianapolis. 36 yarder off the left post from the left hash mark late in the third, score 10-13. (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d82292890/Suisham-36-yd-missed-FG). He kicked a 38 yarder to win the game with 4 seconds left. (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d82292718/Winning-is-a-kick-for-Pittsburgh) He also made a 44 yarder and a 48 yarder.
Week 4: At Houston. 30 yard field goal attempt BLOCKED. Made a 26 yarder.
Week 5: 1 for 1 (19)
Week 6: Jaguars in Pittsburgh. Misses a 46 yarder wide left with the score 17-3 late in the second. (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d8232b5db/Suisham-46-yd-missed-FG) Made a 21 yarder.
Week 7: 3 for 3 (41, 42, and 39)
Week 8: Patriots in Pittsburgh. Missed just right from the left hash mark from 44 yards out, with the score 23-20 late in the 4th. (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d823a0db0/Suisham-43-yd-missed-FG) Also good from 23, 33, and 21.
Week 8:
Week 9: 2 for 2 (30 and 36)
Week 10: 1 for 1 (39)
Week 11: 2 for 2 (21 and 49)
Week 12: Bengals in Pittsburgh. Missed badly right from 50, early in the 4th and up 35-7. (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d824babae/Suisham-50-yd-missed-FG)
Week 13: no attempts
Week 14: at SF. Missed a 48 yarder near the end of the 3rd, down 13-3. (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d8253ba01/Suisham-48-yd-missed-FG) He also made a 51 yarder. (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d8253b959/Suisham-51-yd-FG)
Week 15: 2 for 2 (21 and 49)
Week 16: at Cleveland. Missed a 45 yarder wide left from the right hash mark 5 minutes into the second, score 0-0. (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d8259f5a4/Suisham-45-yd-missed-FG) Made 19 and 29 yarders.

He also went 3 for 3 against Denver from 37, 45, and 38. Only one miss from within 40 and that was from 36. Not too bad.

Hawaii 5-0
07-22-2012, 11:33 PM
And?


And?

okay, Suisham went 7 out of 13 on FGs over 40 yards last season which is under 54%.

he is a below average NFL kicker who ranked 31st in FG% last season, that means only one NFL kicker was worse than him.

Steelersfan87
07-22-2012, 11:43 PM
Some of those attempts were stupid decisions to attempt, while most were exceedingly inconsequential with respect to the score and the time of the kick.

Suisham was 8 out of 9 from 40+ in 2010. Obviously he's somewhere in between 88% and 54% from 40+. He's about 70% from 50+ so far in his season and a half here.

Edit: For his career, he's 76.5% from 40-49. From 40+ including 50+ yarders, he's still 69%.

Bayz101
07-23-2012, 12:47 AM
There's been several times where Suisham would make his way onto the field to attempt a crucial field-goal, and i'd be covering my eyes. I've NEVER had any confidence in him, especially when the game is on the line.

The thing is, I can't say he didn't pull through, because usually, he does. I seen what he did to the Cowboys, and because of that, I've always had a clouded judgment. I have confidence in Suisham, for now. I do think we need to go after the next stud kicker that comes out of college, however. If anything, for the future.

Wallace108
07-23-2012, 01:15 AM
I can't get this out of my mind ...

t-5jmEqiBCY

Steelersfan87
07-23-2012, 02:35 AM
That was such an idiotic decision to attempt a field goal there. Tomlin has to (and did, I believe), take responsibility there. You know what kind of kicker you have, you make decisions based on that. Attempting a 52 yarder that would not even tie the game while it's still in the third quarter is a bad idea.

Bayz101
07-23-2012, 02:41 AM
Yeah...That was an odd decision to kick it there. S.S. isn't Jeff Reed. He may have the leg, but i'd hold all bets.

Atlanta Dan
07-23-2012, 11:21 AM
It is pretty clear Suisham is a caretaker who cannot be counted on

Remember the nonsense at the end of the Ravens game in Pitttsburgh last November when Tomlin could not decide whether to allow Suisham to try a 47 yard FG with around 2 minutes left? Steelers ended up taking a delay of game, punted, and the Ravens drove the length of the field to win. Without that loss IMO the Steelers would have earned a bye and home field for the playoffs.

Suisham did not lose that game but even in Heinz Field if you do not trust your kicker to try a 47 yard FG in the last few minutes you need a new kicker

Steelersfan87
07-23-2012, 02:07 PM
Well, you can't fire your kicker if you don't have anybody to replace him with, can you? There are not a ton of 45+ yarders kicked in Heinz Field either.

Atlanta Dan
07-23-2012, 02:21 PM
Well, you can't fire your kicker if you don't have anybody to replace him with, can you? There are not a ton of 45+ yarders kicked in Heinz Field either.

Well - yeah you can

Steelers canned Jeff Reed after he blew up for the last time at Heinz in 2010, which is how Suisahm got his current job

And you certainly can bring in a new kicker and start over - Steelers got tired of Gerela's inconsistency in the late 70s and after his erratic 2001 season did not much Houston's offer for Kris Brown

Steelersfan87
07-23-2012, 03:09 PM
The Steelers knew that kickers like Suisham were sitting on couches when they cut Reed. He was also chastising fans and assaulting towel dispensers and pissing on buildings. Who are the free agent kickers right now? Is there somebody better than Shaun Suisham out there right now looking for a job? If not, why the hell would you cut Shaun Suisham? He's currently made 8 of of his last 9 field goals btw, including 45, 49, and 51 yarders.

jiminpa
07-23-2012, 03:32 PM
SS is to Jeff Reed what Todd Peterson(sp?) was to Kris Brown. The FO cut off their nose to spite their face. There has to be somebody out there who can at least kick at the college level, which I can't say for SS.

Steelersfan87
07-23-2012, 04:12 PM
A lot of your responses to players seem to be really emotional and reactionary, I've been noticing the past few days. Perhaps you should know that David Akers, who is universally regarded as one of the greatest kickers in the modern NFL has a career 68% completion average for field goals between 40 and 49 yards. That's worse than Suisham, who averages over 76% in that range over his career. From 40+ overall, he's a 65% kicker, ALSO worse than Suisham.

tanda10506
07-23-2012, 04:17 PM
I don't see why the rookie can't take the spot. Based off his stats he has a lot more power which is a big advantage over Suisham. The thing with Suisham is it's not just the stats, it's the fact that we pass up FG attempts because we don't think Suisham will have a chance at making them. I think the rookie can win the spot if he kicks consistent through camp and pre-season, especially if he gets game opportunities in pre season to kick some 45+ yarders.

Steelersfan87
07-23-2012, 04:20 PM
Swayze Waters had a bigger leg and that didn't help him beat Suisham last year. It'd be great if the Steelers can find a better kicker, but it's unlikely to happen right now. Their last chance to find a better kicker will come at final roster cuts, but it's unlikely that they would take a kicker into the season that that pick up right before the season starts. Most likely they'll wait at least until next year to find a new kicker unless this rookie has a superb camp.

Bayz101
07-23-2012, 05:52 PM
A lot of your responses to players seem to be really emotional and reactionary, I've been noticing the past few days. Perhaps you should know that David Akers, who is universally regarded as one of the greatest kickers in the modern NFL has a career 68% completion average for field goals between 40 and 49 yards. That's worse than Suisham, who averages over 76% in that range over his career. From 40+ overall, he's a 65% kicker, ALSO worse than Suisham.

Well, if that's the case, i'm backing off on defending him for missing the 52 yarder in the Super Bowl. He should at least kicked it in the same Zip code.

Steelersfan87
07-23-2012, 06:50 PM
No doubt it was a terrible kick, but it also never should've happened.

Bayz101
07-23-2012, 07:09 PM
No doubt it was a terrible kick, but it also never should've happened.

Well, if he's as good as said from long range, going for it can't really be determined as a bad call.

jiminpa
07-23-2012, 09:43 PM
Well, if he's as good as said from long range, going for it can't really be determined as a bad call.Yeah, because he's iffy at any range. He's just not that good, and the truth is we all know it. And guess what, SS at his best is comparable to Jeff Reed at his worst, but someone had to be sacrificed to try to divert attention from the fact that our offense has been pathetic for five years, okay four years at that point.

Steelersfan87
07-23-2012, 11:49 PM
Jeff Reed was playing terribly, had a terrible temper, and trouble with the law. He insulted the fans and ran away from his responsibilities in kick coverage. There's a reason the 49ers got rid of him after us. There's a reason he's STILL looking for a job. He's not, and hasn't been, the same kicker for the last few years.

Suisham is 4 out of 10 [in the regular season] from 50+, including 1 for 2 with the Steelers.

TheVet
07-24-2012, 04:10 AM
We're talking about the 31st kicker out of 32 teams. This has got to be a solvable problem. There are certainly kickers out there who could do better; hopefully we'll find one.

Suisham is my single biggest worry about this year's team. An unreliable kicker could easily cost us an important game.

jiminpa
07-24-2012, 08:49 AM
We're talking about the 31st kicker out of 32 teams. This has got to be a solvable problem. There are certainly kickers out there who could do better; hopefully we'll find one.

Suisham is my single biggest worry about this year's team. An unreliable kicker could easily cost us an important game.Exactly. He is as likely to get the other team's game ball as he is ours.

jiminpa
07-24-2012, 08:51 AM
Jeff Reed was playing terribly, had a terrible temper, and trouble with the law. He insulted the fans and ran away from his responsibilities in kick coverage. There's a reason the 49ers got rid of him after us. There's a reason he's STILL looking for a job. He's not, and hasn't been, the same kicker for the last few years.

Suisham is 4 out of 10 [in the regular season] from 50+, including 1 for 2 with the Steelers.I agree that Reed was in decline, yet he still hasn't fallen to Suisham's level, as a kicker.

Steelersfan87
07-24-2012, 02:05 PM
Why is it so difficult to understand that Suisham is NEITHER the kicker that went 23 for 31 last year NOR the kicker that went 14 for 15 in 2010, but somewhere in between? Combine those two years and his average is over 80%, and that includes a kick that was blocked. If you take out the block, he's 82.2%. THAT IS DAVID AKERS' CAREER AVERAGE.

TheVet
07-24-2012, 10:31 PM
Doddens - You seem angry about something (the shouting)? When people do the all-caps thing online, it means shouting (not everyone knows that, so I'm not sure if you're really upset or not).

Here's the thing - Some of us aren't completely comfortable going out for battle with a below-mediocre kicker, but that doesn't mean we lack understanding. And we certainly don't intend it as an insult against the mother of anyone who might disagree with us...!

It would be wonderful if Suisham stays and has a surprisingly great year, but would you mind terribly much if the Steelers just take a quiet little peek around to see whether we might be able to do a wee bit better? Thanks (in advance)!

Steelersfan87
07-24-2012, 10:49 PM
Capital letters = emphasis.

You should probably read the rest of what I've said in this thread, since it answers your question.

My point is to help people not overreact to things. It is a fact that Shaun Suisham's field goal percentage in his time with the Steelers is identical to David Akers' career average. He's not as good as he was in 2010 (14 out of 15) and he's not as bad as he was in 2011 (23 out of 30, plus a blocked kick). Shaun Suisham is not the best kicker in the league. He's also not "below-mediocre" (how can you be less than mediocre if your average for your current team rival's David Akers' career average?). But that doesn't mean they have a better option this year. They can look, but they likely won't find a better kicker. And that's okay, because Suisham is neither an asset nor a liability.

Billy Cundiff was an All-Pro kicker in 2010. Did you see what he did in the AFC Championship game? Kicking a field goal is a tricky thing. It doesn't matter how good of a kicker you are, any one can cost you a game.

TheVet
07-24-2012, 11:19 PM
Thanks, I've already read the entire thread, and it's still very clear to me that Suisham is a below mediocre kicker. I could ask you to reread the thread to see if your opinion would change once your questions have been answered, but that would be insulting, no?

Regarding typing in all caps - best to learn this before offending people. Just google for the topic, here's an example article (http://www.hoax-slayer.com/do-not-use-all-capitals.html) - just one of the first that came up in my google. You'd be surprised to learn how many business (and other) relationships have been damaged by this faux pas.

Regarding Billy Cundiff - unexpectedly good and bad outcomes can happen to anyone, but that doesn't mean that the odds should be ignored.

Steelersfan87
07-24-2012, 11:40 PM
I'd hate to break this to you, but if you take Shaun Suisham's average with the Steelers thus far (excluding the blocked kick), which is 82.222222222%, that would place him 17th all time in the history of all kickers ever in the history ever of the NFL ever ever ever ever ever. If you would like to review the all-time list, here it is:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/fg_perc_career.htm

Your classification of Suisham as "below mediocre" is therefore patently absurd and completely out of touch with reality. Suisham is 37 out of 45 in the regular season with the Steelers on kicks that were not blocked.

Insulting? No, it wouldn't be insulting at all to suggest that somebody reread a thread if a question asked has already been answered. It would be insulting to demand a person answer a question he's already answered.

Regarding capital letters - capitals letters mean what you intend them to mean. I intended them to mean EMPHASIS.

Also:

It'd be great if the Steelers can find a better kicker, but it's unlikely to happen right now. Their last chance to find a better kicker will come at final roster cuts, but it's unlikely that they would take a kicker into the season that that pick up right before the season starts. Most likely they'll wait at least until next year to find a new kicker unless this rookie has a superb camp.

The bottom line is that Shaun Suisham is not Robbie Gould, Stephen Gostkowski, Nate Kaeding, Rob Bironas, or Adam Vinatieri, but he's also not Graham Gano, Nick Novak, Nick Folk, or Matt Prater.

Interestingly, Shaun Suisham has a higher CAREER field goal percentage than Josh Scobee, who just signed a 4 year, $13.8 million contract.

TheVet
07-25-2012, 12:16 AM
I knew that I was going to lose this debate; I couldn't even convince you that Bruce Arians wasn't a great OC! So let's just agree to call the 32nd NFL kicker mediocre, and then we can all agree that Suisham at #31 is a cut above.

SUISHAM IS A CUT ABOVE THE MEDIOCRE #32 KICKER.

Doddens I love you man, but I still can't budge on Arians, sorry!!!

Steelersfan87
07-25-2012, 12:47 AM
If you accept that Shaun Suisham in 2011 is the 32nd kicker in the league, then you also have to accept that Shaun Suisham in 2010 is the 2nd kicker in the league when his field goal percentage was 93.3% (trailing only Ryan Longwell at 94.4%).

MasterOfPuppets
07-25-2012, 12:59 AM
This battle figures to be wide open in training camp and Butler does have youth on his side. If it is close, the nod will likely go to Butler.

the other thing butler has going for him is a rookie salary. don't know what kapinos wages will be , but i'm sure butler would be a few hundred thousand less.

Hawaii 5-0
07-25-2012, 02:05 AM
Thanks, I've already read the entire thread, and it's still very clear to me that Suisham is a below mediocre kicker. I could ask you to reread the thread to see if your opinion would change once your questions have been answered, but that would be insulting, no?

Regarding typing in all caps - best to learn this before offending people. Just google for the topic, here's an example article (http://www.hoax-slayer.com/do-not-use-all-capitals.html) - just one of the first that came up in my google. You'd be surprised to learn how many business (and other) relationships have been damaged by this faux pas.


I also find it very annoying when posters capitalize entire sentences and/or paragraphs, no one likes being shouted at when they are trying to read something on a Steelers message board.

and when you are the 31st ranked kicker out of 32 kickers you are definitely considered to be below average. the NFL stands for Not For Long, and that's exactly how long Suisham will remain a Steeler if he doesn't improve on last season's 6 for 11 accuracy rate from 40-49 yards out.

Steelersfan87
07-25-2012, 02:27 AM
I used capital letters because I didn't feel like using italics. Get over it.

It's important not to have such a short term memory when talking about players. Unless you mean to tell me that Suisham went from being the second best kicker in the league in 2010 to being the second worst kicker in 2011. Or is it perhaps possible that it makes no sense to view a single season as a player's be all, end all?

Suisham is 14 out of 20 with the Steelers from 40-49. That's 70%.

Bayz101
07-25-2012, 02:52 AM
Please keep things civil, gentleman. Thank you :drink:

Bayz101
07-25-2012, 02:58 AM
While I disagree that S.S. is a mediocre kicker, I understand why many people, including myself, have problems putting trust in him: He's missed some clutch kicks in his career, and that's something we didn't see out of Jeff Reed a lot, especially in his prime. I'd imagine a new kicker would be hard for ANY team in this league, especially when the new guy has to live up to the last kicker, who was pretty damn good.

pancake
07-26-2012, 08:03 PM
This is the one area that didn't seem the FO tried to upgrade, I hope ot doesn't bite us in the butt later...

zsheik22
07-29-2012, 11:23 PM
Either way we will be fine at Punter, very few punters actually make a difference in the game. Some can really help like Shane Lechler, some can hinder you like Mitch Berger, but most punters make decent kicks consistently. As for the kicker, we need Hrapmann to succeed. It's not just consistency, we pass on FG's that could add points because Suisham has poor accuracy at 40+ and can barely even get it there at 50. When we are on the opponents 35 and we are stuck between going for 4th and 15 or punting, it would help to be able to put 3 points on the board instead, or at least be able to take a confident shot at it.




Yeah, but saying some "can really help" is a colossal understatement. The AFC north plays field position football. The Ravens punter is tremendous in helping out his defense with those punts. He is as every bit as good as almost any punter i've ever seen and I hate to admire those punts.