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Vis
06-05-2012, 01:36 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/football/ncaa/06/05/jerry-sandusky-trial.ap/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a13&eref=sihp

BELLEFONTE, Pa. (AP) -- Three of the 16 jurors and alternates needed for former Penn State football coach Jerry Sandusky's child sex abuse trial were selected Tuesday morning, a defense attorney told The Associated Press.
The jurors were picked during the opening hours of jury selection, defense attorney Karl Rominger said during a midday break.
Prospective jurors also learned at the start of jury selection that the wife and son of Sandusky's former boss, Joe Paterno, were among the potential defense witnesses.
The names of Sue and Jay Paterno and members of Sandusky's family were on a list shown to the prospective jurors, along with assistant coach Mike McQueary and his father, John McQueary. Mike McQueary, on leave from the team, has said he saw Sandusky naked in a team shower with a young boy more than a decade ago and reported it to Penn State football coach Joe Paterno.
Mike McQueary is also on the prosecution's list, along with young men who have accused Sandusky of abusing them.
Sandusky, 68, faces 52 criminal counts and potential penalties that could result in an effective life prison sentence for alleged abuse involving 10 boys. The former Penn State assistant football coach has denied the allegations.
Judge John Cleland told the more than 220 potential jurors he would not sequester them, meaning they can spend nights at home during the trial that is expected to last several weeks.
While about a dozen TV news trucks and more than 50 reporters waited outside the courthouse for updates, Cleland urged the jury pool to avoid news accounts or social media postings.
"No one in the world will know as much about this trial as the people sitting in the jury box," Cleland told them.
Sandusky is attending jury selection, and laughed at some of Cleland's humorous remarks to potential jurors. But when Cleland told the pool the nature of the charge, Sandusky put his head down.
More than 600 summonses were sent out to residents in Centre County, the home of Penn State University's main campus. The process of finding the 12 jurors and four alternates could take days.
Cleland addressed the prospective jurors in a somber, packed courtroom. The prospective jurors were to be taken in groups of 40 for more questions and, ultimately to face one-on-one questioning in a third phase, for those who were not dismissed beforehand.
The fact that jurors are being chosen from among people who live in the State College area was a victory for the defense, which had argued against bringing in jurors from elsewhere in the state.
Early in the process, jurors were asked to indicate through a system in which they held up cards whether they had connections to Penn State.
About a dozen signaled that they worked or had retired from the university; another half-dozen said they had spouses who worked for the school.
Four indicated they knew Sandusky. Two said they knew his wife, Dottie, who was not in court on Tuesday.
Two potential jurors indicated they had previously volunteered with the youth charity Sandusky had founded.
Of the first group of 40 to be questioned Tuesday morning, Cleland dismissed five for medical reasons or vacation plans.
Looking worn out and concerned, Sandusky didn't say anything during that phase of jury selection, in contrast to the polite "good mornings" exchanged by attorneys to potential jurors.
Cleland said he hoped to get through all the potential jurors on Tuesday, but that prospect appeared highly unlikely.
Some of the alleged victims are expected to testify during the trial, the opening of which is likely to begin on Monday morning. Cleland said the trial may last three weeks.
Prosecutors have claimed that Sandusky groomed boys he met through the charity he founded for at-risk youth in 1977, then attacked them, in some cases in his own home or inside university athletic facilities.
Among the challenges for jury selection are the extraordinarily heavy news coverage of the scandal and the wide reach of the charity, The Second Mile.

Vis
06-05-2012, 01:44 PM
I still think McQueary should have taken that boy to the hospital immediately, pausing only for a quick pummeling of Sandusky. Assuming, of course, that his story is true, i don't know how you walk away from the rape of a child.

Vincent
06-05-2012, 04:10 PM
I still think McQueary should have taken that boy to the hospital immediately, pausing only for a quick pummeling of Sandusky. Assuming, of course, that his story is true, i don't know how you walk away from the rape of a child.

Where is the line between the homosexual rape of a child and them merely being a "couple"?

Atlanta Dan
06-05-2012, 04:23 PM
Where is the line between the homosexual rape of a child and them merely being a "couple"?

Probably about the same place it is for heterosexual child rape

Vincent
06-05-2012, 04:35 PM
Probably about the same place it is for heterosexual child rape

Its a murky world with blurry boundaries, ergo the question.

"According to a (Mayo) study of 2429 adult male pedophile sex offenders in the U.S., only 7% identified themselves as “exclusive.” This suggests that the majority of pedophiles, or at a minimum pedophiles prone to acting on their urges, are attracted sexually to both children and adults."

HALL, MD, RYAN C. W.; AND RICHARD C. W. HALL, MD, PA.. “A Profile of Pedophilia: Definition, Characteristics of Offenders, Recidivism, Treatment Outcomes, and Forensic Issues“ (PDF). MAYO CLIN PROC 82:457-471 2007. MAYO FOUNDATION FOR MEDICAL EDUCATION AND RESEARCH.

hicksfan
06-08-2012, 12:27 PM
Where is the line between the homosexual rape of a child and them merely being a "couple"?

i'd say that somewhere around the legal age of consent? not sure of your implication but homosexuality and pedophilia are not synonymous.

Vincent
06-08-2012, 05:15 PM
i'd say that somewhere around the legal age of consent?

Academia is moving the frontier. Seems that they take issue with this "legal age of consent" thing as "agism". They wish to dismiss it altogether so gays can leave their families and "begin their lives".

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/9/23/94446.shtml
Academics Defend Pedophilia
Daniel J. Flynn
Thursday, Sept. 23, 2004

Are pedophiles the next campus “victim” group? A tiny but vocal group of academics are working to make the answer yes.

New York University Press’s Lavender Culture calls to demolish the “archaic” notions of “the innocence of children” and “the potential harmfulness of sex.” To do this, an essayist in the text advises readers to “proselytize” to “young gay people with the message that…they should get out of their families as soon as they can.” The danger of not doing this, the author explains, is having “future generations of gay people who wait until their twenties before they start to live.” The essay seeks the repeal of “repressive, ageist legislation.”

How did this rant against age of consent laws wind up in an ostensibly scholarly publication? Since the piece cites famed sex researcher Alfred Kinsey, New York University Press transforms it from screed to scholarship. The piece claims, for instance, that “the myth that children are not sexual beings . . . is maintained, after all, in the face of massive evidence to the contrary. . . . Infants in their cribs have orgasms — Kinsey documented them in babies less than a year old.”

UC-Santa Cruz Professor Gayle Rubin calls the government’s crackdown on child molesters “a savage and undeserved witch hunt.” Intolerance of pedophilia, she claims, has “more in common with ideologies of racism than with true ethics.” Rubin advances these opinions in the first essay of The Lesbian and Gay Studies Reader, where she writes: “boy lovers are so stigmatized that it is difficult to find defenders for their civil liberties, let alone erotic orientation. Consequently, the police have feasted on them. Local police, the FBI and watchdog postal inspectors have joined to build a huge apparatus whose sole aim is to wipe out the community of men who love underaged youth.”

Rubin, too, cites Kinsey’s scholarship. She writes, “Alfred Kinsey approached the study of sex with the same uninhibited curiosity he had previously applied to examining species of wasp. His scientific detachment gave his work a refreshing neutrality.”

In a piece once used in a Cornell University course called “The Sexual Child,” Pat Califa writes, “Culturally induced schizophrenia allows parents to make sentimental speeches about the fleeting innocence of childhood and the happiness of years unbroken by carnal lust — and exhaust themselves policing the sex lives of their children. Children are celibate because their parents prevent them from playing with other little kids or adults.”

Public Sex, the tome where this essay resides, leans on Kinsey to grant science’s imprimatur to child-adult sex. Califa states, “Even though many prominent sex researchers have documented the existence of sexual capacity in children (for instance Kinsey verified the occurrence of orgasm in girls and boys at less than six months of age), our society is fanatically determined to deny it.”

Actually, Kinsey didn’t verify anything. Child molesters with whom he corresponded with supposedly “documented the existence of sexual capacity in children.” Kinsey took them at their word, and dressed up their findings as his, as “science.”

Aversion to child-adult sexual contacts, Kinsey’s Sexual Behavior in the Human Male maintained, is “culturally conditioned.” Pedophiles don’t harm children in most cases, the Indiana University professor argued, but the “hysteria” caused by police, parents, and others in authority does. According to Kinsey’s pedophiles, who became “trained observers” in his reports, signs of “orgasm” for children as young as infants included “violent cries,” “loss of color,” and an “abundance of tears.” This wasn’t science. This was perverts rationalizing their criminal behavior.

It took more than 30 years for academics to mount a serious challenge to Kinsey. In 1981, when Judith Reisman exposed Kinsey’s pseudoscience, other academics who found Kinsey’s scholarship politically useful ignored Reisman’s revelations. As shown by the rhetoric of Gayle Rubin and other academics, they still do.

The free ride Alfred Kinsey received from intellectuals more than a half-century ago has left us with a valuable lesson: When you don’t rebut junk science the first time around, it begets more junk science.

Daniel J. Flynn is the author of Intellectual Morons: How Ideology Makes Smart People Fall for Stupid Ideas (Crown Forum, 2004).

Atlanta Dan
06-08-2012, 07:23 PM
Academia is moving the frontier. Seems that they take issue with this "legal age of consent" thing as "agism". They wish to dismiss it altogether so gays can leave their families and "begin their lives".

So what does this have to do with Sandusky,, who as far as we know is an alleged pedophile but also in a long term heterosexual marriage

I was unaware that "academia" was attempting to move back the age of consent to promote the "gay agenda" but you never know:noidea:

As long as we are citing scholarly studies here is one for you

Homophobes Might Be Hidden Homosexuals
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=homophobes-might-be-hidden-homosexuals

Vincent
06-08-2012, 08:21 PM
So what does this have to do with Sandusky,, who as far as we know is an alleged pedophile but also in a long term heterosexual marriage

Where is the line between the homosexual rape of a child and them merely being a "couple"?

Well Dan, if you follow the thread you might note that there is a nexus between and individual being ground up by a society that is trying to eliminate "ageist" barriers to youngsters engaging in gay sex. I asked a simple, relevant question.

I was unaware...

:noidea:

Oh. That was your point.

As long as we are citing scholarly studies here is one for you

Homophobes Might Be Hidden Homosexuals
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=homophobes-might-be-hidden-homosexuals

Why would that interest me?

hicksfan
06-11-2012, 10:11 AM
Academia is moving the frontier. Seems that they take issue with this "legal age of consent" thing as "agism". They wish to dismiss it altogether so gays can leave their families and "begin their lives".

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/9/23/94446.shtml
Academics Defend Pedophilia
Daniel J. Flynn
Thursday, Sept. 23, 2004

Are pedophiles the next campus “victim” group? A tiny but vocal group of academics are working to make the answer yes.

New York University Press’s Lavender Culture calls to demolish the “archaic” notions of “the innocence of children” and “the potential harmfulness of sex.” To do this, an essayist in the text advises readers to “proselytize” to “young gay people with the message that…they should get out of their families as soon as they can.” The danger of not doing this, the author explains, is having “future generations of gay people who wait until their twenties before they start to live.” The essay seeks the repeal of “repressive, ageist legislation.”

How did this rant against age of consent laws wind up in an ostensibly scholarly publication? Since the piece cites famed sex researcher Alfred Kinsey, New York University Press transforms it from screed to scholarship. The piece claims, for instance, that “the myth that children are not sexual beings . . . is maintained, after all, in the face of massive evidence to the contrary. . . . Infants in their cribs have orgasms — Kinsey documented them in babies less than a year old.”

UC-Santa Cruz Professor Gayle Rubin calls the government’s crackdown on child molesters “a savage and undeserved witch hunt.” Intolerance of pedophilia, she claims, has “more in common with ideologies of racism than with true ethics.” Rubin advances these opinions in the first essay of The Lesbian and Gay Studies Reader, where she writes: “boy lovers are so stigmatized that it is difficult to find defenders for their civil liberties, let alone erotic orientation. Consequently, the police have feasted on them. Local police, the FBI and watchdog postal inspectors have joined to build a huge apparatus whose sole aim is to wipe out the community of men who love underaged youth.”

Rubin, too, cites Kinsey’s scholarship. She writes, “Alfred Kinsey approached the study of sex with the same uninhibited curiosity he had previously applied to examining species of wasp. His scientific detachment gave his work a refreshing neutrality.”

In a piece once used in a Cornell University course called “The Sexual Child,” Pat Califa writes, “Culturally induced schizophrenia allows parents to make sentimental speeches about the fleeting innocence of childhood and the happiness of years unbroken by carnal lust — and exhaust themselves policing the sex lives of their children. Children are celibate because their parents prevent them from playing with other little kids or adults.”

Public Sex, the tome where this essay resides, leans on Kinsey to grant science’s imprimatur to child-adult sex. Califa states, “Even though many prominent sex researchers have documented the existence of sexual capacity in children (for instance Kinsey verified the occurrence of orgasm in girls and boys at less than six months of age), our society is fanatically determined to deny it.”

Actually, Kinsey didn’t verify anything. Child molesters with whom he corresponded with supposedly “documented the existence of sexual capacity in children.” Kinsey took them at their word, and dressed up their findings as his, as “science.”

Aversion to child-adult sexual contacts, Kinsey’s Sexual Behavior in the Human Male maintained, is “culturally conditioned.” Pedophiles don’t harm children in most cases, the Indiana University professor argued, but the “hysteria” caused by police, parents, and others in authority does. According to Kinsey’s pedophiles, who became “trained observers” in his reports, signs of “orgasm” for children as young as infants included “violent cries,” “loss of color,” and an “abundance of tears.” This wasn’t science. This was perverts rationalizing their criminal behavior.

It took more than 30 years for academics to mount a serious challenge to Kinsey. In 1981, when Judith Reisman exposed Kinsey’s pseudoscience, other academics who found Kinsey’s scholarship politically useful ignored Reisman’s revelations. As shown by the rhetoric of Gayle Rubin and other academics, they still do.

The free ride Alfred Kinsey received from intellectuals more than a half-century ago has left us with a valuable lesson: When you don’t rebut junk science the first time around, it begets more junk science.

Daniel J. Flynn is the author of Intellectual Morons: How Ideology Makes Smart People Fall for Stupid Ideas (Crown Forum, 2004).

your age of consent disagreement is a silly notion at best. this article is almost 8 years old. how far has this "group" gotten with their argument? regardless of what gets published about what a small number of people think, we still have a flat-earth society in this day and age as well as creationists. what if we went by the opinions of the kkk about race relations? and again, i see you equating homosexuality with pedophilia and the two are not related anymore than heterosexuality and pedophilia. do you have any other intention than to misrepresent what's factual?

MasterOfPuppets
06-11-2012, 03:15 PM
bring back the good ole lynch mobs and do away with these drawn out trials....:tt03:

http://top5s.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/1116.jpg

SteelCityMom
06-11-2012, 03:33 PM
Man, my gay friends are going to be pissed when they find out they're most likely pedo's too. Oh well, they'll just have to live with it.

MasterOfPuppets
06-11-2012, 04:08 PM
Man, my gay friends are going to be pissed when they find out they're most likely pedo's too. Oh well, they'll just have to live with it.
you mean wally and buddha ? nah, they know they ain't pedo's :noidea:

Vincent
06-11-2012, 05:02 PM
your age of consent disagreement is a silly notion at best. this article is almost 8 years old. how far has this "group" gotten with their argument?

Well, the reason I went with the older article was knowing that it would draw fire, it set the stage for where we are today - repeating the history of 40 years ago when academia was petitioning the APA to declassify homosexuality.

Interesting, huh?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/nov/17/normalizing-penn-state-pedophilia/

Normalizing Penn State pedophilia
While children suffer, activists push to mainstream abuse

By Janice Shaw Crouse - The Washington Times - Thursday, November 17, 2011

The vast majority of Americans are outraged at the recent accusations of child rape by a former member of the football coaching staff at Penn State University and the seeming cover-up by the university’s president and legendary head football coach. At the same time, a small, radical organization, B4U-ACT, is lobbying under the radar to convince the American Psychiatric Association (APA) - publisher of the bible for identifying abnormal behaviors, the Diagnostic&StatisticalManualofMental Disorders (DSM) -to declare that pedophilia should not be included in the list of abnormal behaviors.

Members of the APA need to listen to the public outcry and disregard members of B4U-ACT. Raping a child, sexually exploiting a child, destroying a child’s innocence, and psychologically and physically damaging a child are abhorrent crimes. Media coverage has downplayed the physical trauma abused children often suffer from sexual assaults. Contrary to the views of some on the radical fringe, the criminal is not the victim; nor is that person to be protected and the crime covered up while the abused and sexually exploited children are left to suffer the consequences and later, endure the years of psychological rehabilitation that is required before they can be restored to normality.

B4U-ACT is a small group of mental health professionals and pedophile activists who seek greater tolerance for “minor-attracted persons” (pedophiles). Indeed, those involved in the lobbying want to decriminalize, even normalize, pedophilia. They are working to change public perceptions so that raping children is acceptable behavior. Among the academics lending respectability to these efforts by speaking at the recent conference in Baltimore were researchers from Harvard University, Johns Hopkins University and the universities of Louisville and Illinois. The fringe activists promise to disrupt future meetings of the APA until they are successful in normalizing pedophilia, a strategy successfully employed in the 1970s to get homosexuality removed from the DSM - not because of new scientific evidence, but because of political pressure by a small group of activists. For instance, in 1990, the JournalofHomosexuality published a special double issue devoted to adult-child sex, calling it “male intergenerational intimacy.”

All of this reminds me of Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s warnings about “defining deviancy down” and cultural disintegration. I paraphrase his advice this way: Win the battles over language and you win the culture war.

Now the pedophilia activists are flexing their political muscles and with some success, changing the culture through changing the language of social science and medical terminology. To be released in 2013, the DSM proposes subtle yet significant revisions to its featured section on “paraphilic” disorders. The term “paraphilia” encompasses a wide range of aberrant sexual urges and behaviors, including but not limited to pedophilia, exhibitionism, fetishism, sexual sadism and masochism. In every version of the DSM, such forms of sexual deviance have been classified as paraphilic disorders. But now, radical fringe groups with a bully pulpit are arguing that people with “atypical, culturally forbidden or religiously proscribed sexual interests” should not be labeled ill, and they are putting tremendous pressure on the APA to comply.

The proposed changes to the DSM paraphilia section seek to make a distinction between “paraphilias” and “paraphilic disorders,” and in order to meet the criteria for the disorder, the person who is “minor-attracted” must experience significant “distress or impairment” or cause “harm to others.” So, essentially, a grown man who engages in sex with a consenting 12-year-old and sleeps soundly at night does not have a disorder. Pedophilia is only a problem when it falls within certain narrowly specified criminal categories.

We’ve all heard the nonsensical expression, “I’m just a little pregnant.” Now it seems one can be “just a little pedophilic.” As part of the paraphilia changes, the “pedophilia” subgroup will be given a new name: “pedohebephilic disorder.” In order to qualify, one must experience sexual stimulation from at least two prepubescent children - or at least three children, if one is pubescent. All this must take place for at least a period of six months and must involve the repeated use of porn.

Under such conditions, a person who molests the same child for years - exclusively - is not a pedophile. A person who sexually assaults different children for less than half a year is nota pedophile. Clearly, as Allan Bloom and Gertrude Himmelfarb said, “Sturdy virtues are being diluted into shallow values.”

Surely, the skeptic in all of us wants to cry out, “This can never happen. Pedophilia can never be normalized.” After all, it doesn’t take a medical or theological degree to know that child rape is wrong. But as David Brooks noted in a NewYorkTimes column, “Morality was once revealed, inherited and shared, but now it’s thought of as something that emerges in the privacy of your own heart.”

Due to our human sensitivities and American values of fairness and equality, our nation has been duped into accepting the unacceptable, all because the lies have been packaged for us so nicely. We were told that morality is relative and that right and wrong are simply cultural preferences. We were told that adhering to an absolute truth that judges between good and evil is narrow-minded. We were told we needed to alter our language to become more politically correct - that pedophiles are simply “minor-attracted persons” who are the victims of societal stigma, bigotry and intolerance. We are told that our children are sexual from birth and have the capacity to be willing participants in intercourse from their infancy.

The time has come when we can no longer casually dismiss fringe radicals as irrelevant. Instead, we must take seriously those who want to steer our nation into a moral morass. We are not powerless; we can serve as watchdogs, monitoring institutions such as the APA and keeping them accountable. If we’ve learned nothing else from the Jerry Sandusky scandal, we have learned that pedophilia involves real people, and little children are the victims when a trusted adult perpetrator exploits their innocence and takes sexual advantage of their trust.

Janice Shaw Crouse, author of “Children at Risk” (Transaction, 2010), is director of Concerned Women for America’s Beverly LaHaye Institute.

regardless of what gets published about what a small number of people think, we still have a flat-earth society in this day and age as well as creationists. what if we went by the opinions of the kkk about race relations? and again, i see you equating homosexuality with pedophilia and the two are not related anymore than heterosexuality and pedophilia. do you have any other intention than to misrepresent what's factual?

I realize that drawing any parallel between homosexuality and pedophilia makes “modern” folk edgy. But there are common elements that need to be explored and addressed, and I submit that to not do so would qualify one for “flat Earth society” membership more so than raising the questions.

I started by asking essentially what age separates pedophilia from "mere" homosexuality. It bears noting that there is a distinction to be made between "heterosexual" pedophilia and "homosexual" pedophilia.

As one might expect, Mayo has extensive research that helps answer some of these questions. As it happens, there are indeed not "just pedophiles", but categories of pedophiles that cut across my questions. Interestingly "of adult male pedophiles, only 7% identified themselves as exclusively sexually attracted to children", indicating that the vast majority carried their "orientation" into the abuse of children. The research further indicated that there is male "heterosexual" pedophilia and male "homosexual" pedophilia. A particularly revealing statistic is that "the percentage of homosexual pedophiles ranges from 9% to 40%, which is approximately 4 to 20 times higher than the rate of adult men attracted to other adult men (using a prevalence rate of adult homosexuality of 2%-4%)". But you'll be relieved to know that the research "does not imply that homosexuals are more likely to molest children, just that a larger percentage of pedophiles are homosexual or bisexual in orientation to children." That's certainly good news for the homosexual community. Otherwise folks would think of them as perverts or something. Oh, and the research points out that "homosexual" pedophiles are nearly eight times more prolific than "heterosexual" pedophiles, but I doubt that that reflects on the homosexual community that much. Well, because there is absolutely no relationship whatsoever between homosexuality and pedophilia, and certainly anybody that thinks so must be a flat Earther or Creationist Right?

http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.com.../82/4/457.full

CATEGORIES OF PEDOPHILES

Pedophiles are subdivided into several classifications. One of the first distinctions made when classifying pedophiles is to determine whether they are “exclusively” attracted to children (exclusive pedophile) or attracted to adults as well as children (nonexclusive pedophile). In a study by Abel and Harlow15 of 2429 adult male pedophiles, only 7% identified themselves as exclusively sexually attracted to children, which confirms the general view that most pedophiles are part of the nonexclusive group.

Pedophiles are usually attracted to a particular age range and/or sex of child. Research categorizes male pedophiles by whether they are attracted to only male children (homosexual pedophilia), female children (heterosexual pedophilia), or children from both sexes (bisexual pedophilia).3,6,10,29 The percentage of homosexual pedophiles ranges from 9% to 40%, which is approximately 4 to 20 times higher than the rate of adult men attracted to other adult men (using a prevalence rate of adult homosexuality of 2%-4%).5,7,10,19,29,30 This finding does not imply that homosexuals are more likely to molest children, just that a larger percentage of pedophiles are homosexual or bisexual in orientation to children.19 Individuals attracted to females usually prefer children between the ages of 8 and 10 years.3,5,31 Individuals attracted to males usually prefer slightly older boys between the ages of 10 and 13 years.3,5 Heterosexual pedophiles, in self-report studies, have on average abused 5.2 children and committed an average of 34 sexual acts vs homosexual pedophiles who have on average abused 10.7 children and committed an average of 52 acts.15 Bisexual offenders have on average abused 27.3 children and committed more than 120 acts.15 A study by Abel et al32 of 377 nonincarcerated, non-incest-related pedophiles, whose legal situations had been resolved and who were surveyed using an anonymous self-report questionnaire, found that heterosexual pedophiles on average reported abusing 19.8 children and committing 23.2 acts, whereas homosexual pedophiles had abused 150.2 children and committed 281.7 acts. These studies confirm law enforcement reports about the serial nature of the crime, the large number of children abused by each pedophile, and the underreporting of assaults.1 Studies that used self-reports and polygraphs show that pedophiles currently in treatment underreport their current interest in children and past behaviors.33,34

If you follow the link for that article, you’ll see it was taken down. Must have ruffled some feathers. The study is available at cost to professionals at these sites…

http://pdn.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=MiamiImageURL&_cid=280963&_user=10&_pii=S0025619611612937&_check=y&_origin=browse&_zone=rslt_list_item&_coverDate=2007-05-31&wchp=dGLbVlk-zSkWb&md5=5d9561a814d6a01553d593d0f27a7854&pid=1-s2.0-S0025619611612937-main.pdf

http://www.mdconsult.com/das/article/body/337782904-194/jorg=journal&source=&sp=19473561&sid=0/N/1002695/1.html?issn=00256196&_returnURL=http%3A//linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0025619611610744%3Fshowall%3Dtrue#h1161074402

Vincent
06-11-2012, 05:17 PM
Further to the previous... watch the Megyn Kelly video at the end at the link.

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/08/24/group-of-psychiatrists-wants-to-redefine-pedophilia-to-promote-tolerance/

Group of psychiatrists wants to redefine pedophilia to promote tolerance
posted at 5:25 pm on August 24, 2011 by Tina Korbe

When I wrote about an objectionable spread of photographs in Paris Vogue – a spread that featured 10-year-old fashion model Thylane Blondeau styled in provocative ways — I fretted that such a magazine feature might, in some way, normalize the concept of sexual attraction to minors:

It’s often said, but bears repeating, that the TV, magazine and advertising images we absorb train our minds as to what is considered attractive — and, yes, specifically sexually attractive — in our culture. So, what does a magazine feature like this say? That it’s OK, even encouraged, to look at a child in a sexual way. …

But it’s adamantly not OK to look at a child in a sexual way, as harsh laws against pedophilia and child pornography attest. Maybe it seems like a leap of logic to move from provocative pictures to pornography and pedophilia, but again, images train the mind’s eye. The more readers and viewers see children in adult poses and in adult clothes, the less jarring it will be to those readers and viewers to see children in adult roles. It’s all highly inappropriate — and in territory better avoided entirely.

What’s crazy is, at the time, I thought we were still years away from any sane person seriously suggesting such a distorted disposition of attraction to minors — i.e. pedophilia — should be repackaged as less a problem and more a disorder to be understood and, yes, tolerated. But one group of psychologists is calling for such a redefinition even now. Megyn Kelly and Shannon Bream were just talking about this appalling push on “America Live.”

B4U-Act is a 501(c)(3) organization in Maryland that was established “to publicly promote services and resources for self-identified individuals (adults and adolescents) who are sexually attracted to children and seek such assistance, to educate mental health providers regarding the approaches helpful for such individuals, to develop a pool of providers in Maryland who agree to serve these individuals and abide by B4U-ACT’s Principles and Perspectives of Practice, and to educate the citizens of Maryland regarding issues faced by these individuals,” according to the group’s website.

Perhaps that sounds innocent enough (although I don’t think so). Let’s give them the benefit of the doubt for a second: What’s wrong with psychiatrists seeking to help those attracted to children better understand why they have that tendency? Perhaps those psychiatrists could even be an instrument of crime prevention or of after-the-fact justice. But no. Consider: At least one psychiatrist in the bunch has been known to treat child molesters without reporting them, Bream said.

Last week, the group hosted a scientific symposium to discuss a proposed new definition of pedophilia in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) of the American Psychiatric Association. Presenters expressed a wide range of views — but the thrust of the B4U-Act movement appears to be, ultimately, to decriminalize pedophilia, Bream said.

As all too often happens with any kind of push for political correctness, with a twist of language, the blameless are forgotten. Let’s remember whom both the social stigma against “minor-attracted persons” and the outlawing of sexual activity between an adult and a minor aim to protect. Yes, I’m talking about children, whose innocence deserves to be preserved, whose minds and bodies haven’t fully developed yet, who depend upon adults for their moral formation. Advocacy on this issue must be on behalf of those who cannot advocate for themselves — not on behalf of those who, however troubled and however tempted, still bear ultimate responsibility for their actions.

Update: At least one reader wondered my justification for the assertion that the B4U-Act movement appears to be headed in the direction of pushing to decriminalize pedophilia. According to Shannon Bream’s report on Fox News, some — although not all — of the presenters at the symposium expressed the view that some level of sexual activity between adults and children should be permissible. That sounds like the decriminalization of pedophilia to me.

Update: B4U-Act is not alone in the effort to normalize pedophilia. Big Hollywood’s John Nolte has reported on the entertainment industry’s attempt to glamorize sex with children, as well.

Update: Here’s the video from the “America Live” segment that tipped me off: http://video.foxnews.com/v/1127278818001/

And more... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4cai2wGqEE

Buddha Bus
06-12-2012, 10:33 AM
you mean wally and buddha ? nah, they know they ain't pedo's :noidea:

Gee, thanks for the vote of confidence, MOP.

Sonofabitch. http://r28.imgfast.net/users/2815/14/51/45/smiles/2625562446.gif

Vincent
06-12-2012, 06:23 PM
Gee, thanks for the vote of confidence, MOP.

Fret not Buddha. Soon you will be free to be “minor-attracted".

SteelersinCA
06-13-2012, 02:21 AM
Why not cite some articles about allowing women to vote, or African Americans, or "declassifying" women as property? There is no logical nexus between homosexuality and pedophilia. You can post as many articles as you want about groups trying to "decriminalize" it, it doesn't mean there is any connection to homosexuality.

Vincent
06-14-2012, 08:32 AM
Why not cite some articles about allowing women to vote, or African Americans, or "declassifying" women as property?

You may be too young to remember the campaign to normalize homosexuality. The campaign to normalize pedophilia is following the exact script. Why not? It worked. I think the window will be shorter this time, like 3-5 years. Watch for it.

There is no logical nexus between homosexuality and pedophilia. You can post as many articles as you want about groups trying to "decriminalize"...

Recall that homosexual behavior was criminal until the mid 70s and remains so in some states.

it doesn't mean there is any connection to homosexuality.

How do you say that when "only 7% (of homosexual pedophiles) identified themselves as exclusively sexually attracted to children", indicating that the vast majority carried their "orientation" into the abuse of children."...And "a particularly revealing statistic is that "the percentage of homosexual pedophiles ranges from 9% to 40%, which is approximately 4 to 20 times higher than the rate of adult men attracted to other adult men"?

Just because such a nexus is distasteful to you doesn't negate its existence.

Atlanta Dan
06-14-2012, 08:42 AM
You may be too young to remember the campaign to normalize homosexuality.

Recall that homosexual behavior was criminal until the mid 70s and remains so in some states.

Just because such a nexus is distasteful to you doesn't negate its existence.

Recall that slavery was "normal" in this country until 1865 and that outlawing interrracial marriage was not held to be unconstitutional until the mid-1960s - care to drive down the road yoiu are traveling a little farther and equate the "normalization" of interracial marriage to pedophiia?

Just because you have obvious issues with homosexuality does not equate it to pedophilia

But mad props to you for hijacking the thread:drink:

Vincent
06-14-2012, 05:23 PM
Recall that slavery was "normal" in this country until 1865 and that outlawing interrracial marriage was not held to be unconstitutional until the mid-1960s - care to drive down the road yoiu are traveling a little farther and equate the "normalization" of interracial marriage to pedophiia?

Now Dan, my posts in this thread have all descended from the same premise that there is a direct and active relationship (no pun) between homosexuality and pedophilia of the homosexual variety, which by the way dwarfs it's counterpart. And my posts are in response to Vis' snit about Sandusky. He knows why.

The homosexual community, the psychobabblers, and academia are all colluding to normalize pedophilia, just as they did homosexuality for the simple reason that lots of homosexuals like little boys and know full that molesting them gives them instant gratification, as well as restocks their pond, if you will. After all, they can't procreate, and they're dropping like flies.

I would urge you to read "Homosexual Activists Work To Normalize Sex With Boys" http://us2000.org/cfmc/Pedophilia.pdf

But one quote... "Kevin Bishop, an admitted pederast (pedophile), is promoting the work of the North American Man - Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) in South Africa. Bishop, who was molested at the age of six, is also an admitted homosexual who is blunt about the relationship between homosexuality and pedophilia. “Scratch the average homosexual and you will find a pedophile,” said Bishop in an interview with the Electronic Mail & Guard i a n ( June 30, 1997) .

That makes several key points, but one that I believe is essential to understanding the relationship between peds and moes - many homosexuals are homosexual because they were molested as children.

http://home60515.com/3.html
Sexual Abuse: A Major Cause Of Homosexuality?

It is a well-documented fact that many many homosexuals were sexually abused when young. (This paper will conclude with a list of some books which support that statement.)

In other words, there is an abundance of evidence that many homosexuals were born heterosexual but were disoriented by sexual abuse.

Indeed, there are many more cases of sexual abuse than there are cases of homosexuality. As one large study discussed in a 1997 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association found, on average 12.8% of women and 4.3% of men recall being sexually abused.1 (How many do not recall it?)

According to Dr. James E. Soukup, author of a book which deals with several subjects including sexual abuse: "In one national study in 1985, 27 percent of the females interviewed and 16 percent of the males reported to have been sexually abused as children. Other studies indicate that these figures are too low. It is suggested that eighty percent of all sexual abuse is not reported."2

The Associated Press noted in late 1998 that, according to an analysis of 166 studies covering the years 1985-97: "As many as one in five boys is sexually abused....It [also] concluded that sexual abuse of boys is underreported and undertreated....Earlier studies have shown that 25 percent to 35 percent of girls are sexually abused."3

(According to a JAMA review of literature re the sexual abuse of boys, only 10%-33% of male abuse victims ever tell anyone about that abuse.4 The review also found that: "Abused [male] adolescents, particularly those victimized by males, were up to 7 times more likely to self-identify as gay or bisexual than peers who had not been abused."5 And regarding female abuse victims, one study found that 38% of adult women ages 18-31 who were sexually abused when young did not remember that they were sexually abused when young.6)

Whatever the true percentages are of male and female sex abuse victims, considering how high the suggested/reported numbers are compared to the percentage of the population that is homosexual (only 1%-2%), we can see that sexual abuse can theoretically account for every case of homosexuality.

Too, there currently is no definitive proof that anyone is born homosexual. Several studies by homosexual researchers claimed to find some possible biological bases for homosexuality. But other scientists easily pointed out the flaws in those studies, and the results of those studies have yet to be replicated by others. In the words of pro-homosexual Newsweek magazine: "In the early '90s, three highly publicized studies seemed to suggest that homosexuality's roots were genetic....More than five years later the data have never been replicated."7 (This fact has been almost totally ignored by the biased, untrustworthy, dominant liberal media.) And in the May/June 2008 issue of Psychology Today we have this: "No one has yet identified a particular gay gene....There is no all-inclusive explanation for the variation in sexual orientation, at least none supported by actual evidence....[T]here are many different mechanisms , not a single one, for producing homosexuality."8

So how can anyone claim, in good conscience, that homosexuals are born that way and have no choice? When someone says they are homosexual, our first response should be to try and find out if he/she was sexually abused and, if so, to then punish the abuser. Our next response should be to provide therapy to homosexuals to help them cope with their problems.

Those who push the born-homosexual line are effectively ignoring the sexual abuse of children. What kind of "people" want to let pedophiles get away with sexually abusing little kids?

(If sexual abuse happens to a one-year or two-year old child, he or she may not remember it later in life because it happened at such a young age. However, the trauma can govern the rest of the victim's life. Some homosexuals will swear they were never sexually abused, but they have no way of knowing for sure.)

Skilled psychologists and psychiatrists like Masters and Johnson, Charles Socarides, Joseph Nicolosi, Benjamin Kaufman, Elizabeth Moberly, Jeffrey Satinover, and Gerard van den Aardweg, have had success changing homosexuals into heterosexuals. (They have been successful because most if not all homosexuals were probably born heterosexual.)

Dr. Reuben Fine, Director of the New York Center for Psychoanalytic Training: "It is paradoxical that even though the politically active homosexual group[s] denies the possibility of change, all studies from Schrenk-Notzing on have found positive effects, virtually regardless of the kind of treatment used....If the homosexual patients were motivated, whatever procedure [i.e., treatment] is adopted, a large percentage will give up their homosexuality."9

Those who oppose using therapy to change homosexuals into heterosexuals are, in effect, trying to keep homosexuals locked into homosexuality. Those who oppose such therapy do not want homosexuals to have a choice, a way out of homosexuality. That's un-American, inhumane, intolerant, and meanly oppressive.

In addition, considering all the solid scientific evidence that many homosexuals are mentally disturbed to one degree or another because of sexual abuse (or dysfunctional parents or other negative developmental influences many homosexuals experienced), it is clear that those psychiatrists and psychologists who say homosexuality should NOT be on the officially approved list of mental illnesses are seemingly incompetent malpractitioners. They appear to be more interested in being "politically correct" than in the truth. Incompetent malpractitioners should have their licenses to ply their professions revoked.

(A book written by Dr. Ronald Bayer, a pro-homosexual psychiatrist, titled Homosexuality and American Psychiatry: The Politics of Diagnosis, explains how the decision to remove homosexuality from the officially approved list of mental disorders was based on power politics and intimidation by homosexual groups NOT science.)

One last note: Homosexuals do not want you to know that many of them were sexually abused when young, because many people who were so abused go on to molest others. And homosexuals do not want you to know that they are more likely to molest children than heterosexuals are.10 (Note of clarification: While that is a fact, there is no proof at this time that it is because of their homosexuality, but rather because so many of them were sexually abused themselves.)

Scads of footnotes in the article


http://www.theinterim.com/2002/sept/02study.html
[B][I]Study shows link between homosexuality and pedophilia
By Interim Staff

A new study by Dr. Timothy J. Dailey and the Washington D.C.-based Family Research Council recently confirmed what police and psychiatrists have known for decades: a definitive link exists between male homosexuality and pedophilia.

The report entitled Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse, shows that while homosexual men make up less than three per cent of the adult male population, they commit a disproportionate number (one third or more) of child sexual molestations. Dailey's report is being sent to parents, youth groups, school administrators, Catholic bishops, and religious organizations.

Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse presents a number of controversial findings. The first is that a significant percentage of child sexual abuse victims are boys. The second finding of Dailey's report contradicts the "inaccurate but widely accepted claims of sex researcher Alfred Kinsey" that homosexuals comprise at least 10 per cent of the population. Based upon a study of three large data sets, the General Social Survey, the National Health and Social Life Survey, and the U.S. Census, "a recent study in demography estimates the number of exclusive male homosexuals in the general population at 2.5 per cent, and the number of exclusive lesbians at 1.4 per cent," writes Dailey.

The FRC study also demonstrates, with a wealth of anecdotal evidence, that pedophile themes can be found throughout "mainstream" gay literature, including fiction anthologies such as: The Penguin Book on International Gay Writing, The Gay Canon: What Every Gay Man Should Read, and A History of Gay Literature:The Male Tradition. Interestingly, the late gay Beat poet Allen Ginsberg was a pedophile, and wrote articles for publications associated with the North American Man-Boy Love Association. "I reread Collected Poems and Ginsberg's two subsequent collections, surprised by the pattern of reference to anal intercourse and to pederasty that emerged," writes Dailey.

According to Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse, pedophiles have long existed as a subculture within the gay rights movement. Dailey quotes David Thorstad, a homosexual activist and founding member of NAMBLA, to demonstrate that by 1985, pedophilia had gained acceptance within the homosexual movement, as it was in that year that NAMBLA was admitted as a member in New York's council of Lesbian and Gay Organizations and the International Gay Association. In the words of Jim Kepner, at one time the curator of the International Gay and Lesbian Archives in Los Angeles: "A point I've been trying to make is that if we reject the boylovers in our midst today, we'd better stop waving the banner of the ancient Greeks, of Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, Oscar Wilde, Walt Whitman, Horatio Alger, and Shakespeare. We'd better stop claiming them as part of our history unless we are broadening our concept of what it means to be gay."

The link between homosexuality and pedophilia is rejected by many mainstream research groups, which have even begun to view pedophilia in value-neutral terms. The American Psychiatric Association removed pedophilia from its list of sexual perversions in 1994, while in 1999 the American Psychological Association published a report, "A Meta-Analytic Examination of Assumed Properties of Child Sexual Abuse Using College Samples," which "claimed child sexual abuse could be harmless and beneficial," according to a 1999 WorldNetDaily column by noted researcher Dr. Judith Reisman.

"None of this is news in the sense that this information (the link between pedophilia and homosexuality) was fundamentally proven a long time ago," Canada Family Action head Brian Rushfeldt told The Interim, "but I'm glad to see the FRC reiterating it, especially at a time when the Catholic church is struggling with the pedophile priest issue."

Rushfeldt stresses that pedophiles come in both homosexual and heterosexual forms, but there are differences between the two that need to be understood. "Do you treat the cocaine addict the same way you treat the alcoholic? If a priest abuses young boys, that's a homosexual act, and we have to recognize it as such if we want to help him."

Asked why the link exists in the first place, Rushfeldt, a former addiction counsellor, says part of the answer lies in the availability of sex. "Sex addicts generally need instant gratification. They have a very low threshold for delaying gratification, and it's much easier to manipulate a young boy into having sex than it is to manipulate another man." He adds that homosexual pedophilia is influenced by other factors as well.

"There's a distinct quality about male homosexuality that gay men tend to be attracted to young, good-looking guys. Another part of pedophilia's appeal is the power the pedophile feels in manipulating the boy. It's a combination of things."

Just because you have obvious issues with homosexuality does not equate it to pedophilia

My issues with homosexuality are manyfold, but they all descend from the lies that "support" its promotion. I have a low threshold of tolerance to bull#$%^.

Calling people that disagree with homosexuality "homophobes" is every bit as infantile as calling people that disagree with bho racists.

But mad props to you for hijacking the thread:drink:

:drink:

Lady Steel
06-14-2012, 11:04 PM
There's a special place in Hell waiting for Jerry Sandusky. What he did is NOT okay. :mad:

SteelersinCA
06-14-2012, 11:11 PM
How do we go from this....

a small, radical organization...Contrary to the views of some on the radical fringe...B4U-ACT is a small group of mental health professionals and pedophile activists who seek greater tolerance for “minor-attracted persons” ...The fringe activists ... fringe radicals as irrelevant.

To this? Small and radical, to entire communities????

The homosexual community, the psychobabblers, and academia are all colluding to normalize pedophilia, just as they did homosexuality for the simple reason that lots of homosexuals like little boys and know full that molesting them gives them instant gratification, as well as restocks their pond, if you will. After all, they can't procreate, and they're dropping like flies.

You may be too young to remember the campaign to normalize homosexuality. The campaign to normalize pedophilia is following the exact script. Why not? It worked. I think the window will be shorter this time, like 3-5 years. Watch for it.

As Dan has pointed out, it follows about the same campaign plan to abolish slavery, suffrage and various other social movements. Those all led us to pedophilia too?

How do you say that when "only 7% (of homosexual pedophiles) identified themselves as exclusively sexually attracted to children", indicating that the vast majority carried their "orientation" into the abuse of children."...And "a particularly revealing statistic is that "the percentage of homosexual pedophiles ranges from 9% to 40%, which is approximately 4 to 20 times higher than the rate of adult men attracted to other adult men"?

Just because such a nexus is distasteful to you doesn't negate its existence.

I'm not sure you understand statistics at a scientific level. A range of 9%-40% is hardly anywhere close to a typical 95% confidence level that most scientists would rely on to stand behind their findings. Saying that 7% of a group are only attracted to children doesn't mean there is a causal link between pedophilia and homosexuality. How many heterosexual pedophiles say they are only attracted to children? Here's a hint:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/666571?dopt=Abstract The possibility emerges that homosexuality and homosexual pedophilia may be mutually exclusive and that the adult heterosexual male constitutes a greater risk to the underage child than does the adult homosexual male.

It says girls are assaulted more than double boys, oh no, look out Vincent, you're on the road to pedophilia!!!!!!!

SteelCityMom
06-15-2012, 12:00 AM
Our increasingly permissive culture is not equally permissive in all directions. You are ignoring certain clear trends.

For one thing, it has become increasingly more 'shameful' for a man to date a woman much younger than him. For another, our culture has increasingly pedestalized children; the idea that we are now going to do an aboutface and legalize child rape seems a huge stretch.

I also have to ask, if more females are abused as children, and being abused as a child directly leads to homosexuality and pedophilia, why are there more male pedophiles than female? Doesn't that one statistic blow the rest out of the water? (I'm not stating that there are no female pedophiles, just that more are male.)

Also, I have to wonder if so many different species of animals were sexually abused in prepubescence as to make them often display homosexual behaviors.

Homosexual behaviour has been observed in 1,500 animal species.

"We're talking about everything from mammals to crabs and worms. The actual number is of course much higher. Among some animals homosexual behaviour is rare, some having sex with the same gender only a part of their life, while other animals, such as the dwarf chimpanzee, homosexuality is practiced throughout their lives."

Animals that live a completely homosexual life can also be found. This occurs especially among birds that will pair with one partner for life, which is the case with geese and ducks. Four to five percent of the couples are homosexual. Single females will lay eggs in a homosexual pair's nest. It has been observed that the homosexual couple are often better at raising the young than heterosexual couples.

When you see a colony of black-headed gulls, you can be sure that almost every tenth pair is lesbian. The females have no problems with being impregnated, although, according to Petter Boeckman they cannot be defined as bisexual.

"If a female has sex with a male one time, but thousands of times with another female, is she bisexual or homosexual? This is the same way to have children is not unknown among homosexual people."

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/20718.aspx

But nothing like this could ever be natural of course, or even mostly natural. Sure, abuse plays a part for some, just like if you are physically abused or live with alcoholism or a smoker, chances are higher that you'll display the same behaviors than those who weren't...but it's not an absolute.

Those are interesting articles, but they're basically just guessing as much as the studies they denounce. They're not proof or fact. Studying a couple thousand homosexuals and pedophiles does not prove anything even close to concrete.

MasterOfPuppets
06-15-2012, 02:02 AM
http://scottthong.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/cartoonbrokeback.gif

hicksfan
06-15-2012, 04:16 PM
Well, the reason I went with the older article was knowing that it would draw fire, it set the stage for where we are today - repeating the history of 40 years ago when academia was petitioning the APA to declassify homosexuality.

Interesting, huh?

I realize that drawing any parallel between homosexuality and pedophilia makes “modern” folk edgy. But there are common elements that need to be explored and addressed, and I submit that to not do so would qualify one for “flat Earth society” membership more so than raising the questions.

I started by asking essentially what age separates pedophilia from "mere" homosexuality. It bears noting that there is a distinction to be made between "heterosexual" pedophilia and "homosexual" pedophilia.

As one might expect, Mayo has extensive research that helps answer some of these questions. As it happens, there are indeed not "just pedophiles", but categories of pedophiles that cut across my questions. Interestingly "of adult male pedophiles, only 7% identified themselves as exclusively sexually attracted to children", indicating that the vast majority carried their "orientation" into the abuse of children. The research further indicated that there is male "heterosexual" pedophilia and male "homosexual" pedophilia. A particularly revealing statistic is that "the percentage of homosexual pedophiles ranges from 9% to 40%, which is approximately 4 to 20 times higher than the rate of adult men attracted to other adult men (using a prevalence rate of adult homosexuality of 2%-4%)". But you'll be relieved to know that the research "does not imply that homosexuals are more likely to molest children, just that a larger percentage of pedophiles are homosexual or bisexual in orientation to children." That's certainly good news for the homosexual community. Otherwise folks would think of them as perverts or something. Oh, and the research points out that "homosexual" pedophiles are nearly eight times more prolific than "heterosexual" pedophiles, but I doubt that that reflects on the homosexual community that much. Well, because there is absolutely no relationship whatsoever between homosexuality and pedophilia, and certainly anybody that thinks so must be a flat Earther or Creationist Right?

http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.com.../82/4/457.full

CATEGORIES OF PEDOPHILES

Pedophiles are subdivided into several classifications. One of the first distinctions made when classifying pedophiles is to determine whether they are “exclusively” attracted to children (exclusive pedophile) or attracted to adults as well as children (nonexclusive pedophile). In a study by Abel and Harlow15 of 2429 adult male pedophiles, only 7% identified themselves as exclusively sexually attracted to children, which confirms the general view that most pedophiles are part of the nonexclusive group.

Pedophiles are usually attracted to a particular age range and/or sex of child. Research categorizes male pedophiles by whether they are attracted to only male children (homosexual pedophilia), female children (heterosexual pedophilia), or children from both sexes (bisexual pedophilia).3,6,10,29 The percentage of homosexual pedophiles ranges from 9% to 40%, which is approximately 4 to 20 times higher than the rate of adult men attracted to other adult men (using a prevalence rate of adult homosexuality of 2%-4%).5,7,10,19,29,30 This finding does not imply that homosexuals are more likely to molest children, just that a larger percentage of pedophiles are homosexual or bisexual in orientation to children.19 Individuals attracted to females usually prefer children between the ages of 8 and 10 years.3,5,31 Individuals attracted to males usually prefer slightly older boys between the ages of 10 and 13 years.3,5 Heterosexual pedophiles, in self-report studies, have on average abused 5.2 children and committed an average of 34 sexual acts vs homosexual pedophiles who have on average abused 10.7 children and committed an average of 52 acts.15 Bisexual offenders have on average abused 27.3 children and committed more than 120 acts.15 A study by Abel et al32 of 377 nonincarcerated, non-incest-related pedophiles, whose legal situations had been resolved and who were surveyed using an anonymous self-report questionnaire, found that heterosexual pedophiles on average reported abusing 19.8 children and committing 23.2 acts, whereas homosexual pedophiles had abused 150.2 children and committed 281.7 acts. These studies confirm law enforcement reports about the serial nature of the crime, the large number of children abused by each pedophile, and the underreporting of assaults.1 Studies that used self-reports and polygraphs show that pedophiles currently in treatment underreport their current interest in children and past behaviors.33,34

If you follow the link for that article, you’ll see it was taken down. Must have ruffled some feathers. The study is available at cost to professionals at these sites…

http://pdn.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=MiamiImageURL&_cid=280963&_user=10&_pii=S0025619611612937&_check=y&_origin=browse&_zone=rslt_list_item&_coverDate=2007-05-31&wchp=dGLbVlk-zSkWb&md5=5d9561a814d6a01553d593d0f27a7854&pid=1-s2.0-S0025619611612937-main.pdf

http://www.mdconsult.com/das/article/body/337782904-194/jorg=journal&source=&sp=19473561&sid=0/N/1002695/1.html?issn=00256196&_returnURL=http%3A//linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0025619611610744%3Fshowall%3Dtrue#h1161074402

It took so long to remember just what happened.
I was so young and vestal then,
you know it hurt me,
but I'm breathing so I guess I'm still alive
even if signs seem to tell me otherwise.
I've got my hands bound,
my head down, my eyes closed,
and my throat wide open.

Do unto others what has been done to you

I'm treading water,
I need to sleep a while.
My lamb and martyr, you look so precious.
Won't you come a bit closer,
close enough so I can smell you.
I need you to feel this,
I can't stand to burn too long.
Released in this sodomy.
For one sweet moment I am whole.

Do unto you now what has been done to me.

You're breathing so I guess you're still alive
even if signs seem to tell me otherwise.
Won't you come just a bit closer,
close enough so I can smell you.
I need you to feel this.
I need this to make me whole.
There's release in this sodomy.
For I am your witness that
blood and flesh can be trusted.
And only this one holy medium brings me piece of mind.

Got your hands bound, your head down,
your eyes closed.
You look so precious now.

(Show me something
Thought I could make it end
Thought I could wash the stains away
Thought I could break the circle if I
Slipped right into your skin
So sweet was your surrender
We have become one
I have become my terror
And you my precious lamb and martyr.)

I have found some kind of temporary sanity in this
shit blood and cum on my hands.

I've come round full circle.
My lamb and martyr, this will be over soon.
You look so precious.

tool - prison sex
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

by and large pedophilia is learned behavior, you'll be hard-pressed to find many pedophiles that weren't victims when they were young. not all who are abused turned into pedophiles, but those that do become pedophiles were once victims. to me, that's one point you neglect to assert in your campaign against homosexuality. you immediately equate physical acts (whether sexual or abuse) with orientation. are those that use "prison sex" to establish hierarchy in prison homosexual? in all acts, consequences dictate the course of our actions. to me it's incorrect to label all of these acts simply as "homosexuality" and use that to dismiss categorically. the assertion that homosexuality begets pedophilia is a gross oversimplification of the overall situation. you use that to validate to yourself that homosexuality in itself is immoral. that supports that belief, right? that's the overall rub, isn't it? you don't have a true argument to what consenting adults can do with each other so you lump in with those that truly have moral issues with their actions. just like flat-earthers and creationists, you ignore several critical points to keep your stance intact.

if you have an argument as to why homosexuality amongst consenting adults is immoral, i'm all ears.

hicksfan
06-15-2012, 04:18 PM
You may be too young to remember the campaign to normalize homosexuality. The campaign to normalize pedophilia is following the exact script. Why not? It worked. I think the window will be shorter this time, like 3-5 years. Watch for it.

jesus won't you ****ing whistle something but the past and done? there will be no normalization of physical abuse. i'll gladly come back in 5 years to revisit your assertion and claims.

hicksfan
06-15-2012, 04:22 PM
My issues with homosexuality are manyfold, but they all descend from the lies that "support" its promotion. I have a low threshold of tolerance to bull#$%^.

Calling people that disagree with homosexuality "homophobes" is every bit as infantile as calling people that disagree with bho racists.

:drink:

do you have any arguments that ring true as to why you should concern yourself with what consenting adults do amongst themselves? if you don't, then it's not infantile to assert your notions are bigoted, which you amusingly refer to as a "low threshold of tolerance to bullshit". you're a ****ing comic genius.

hicksfan
06-15-2012, 04:24 PM
and moving forward, please start formulating arguments in your own words rather than the daisy-chain of cut and paste articles. i'd like to see the actual substance of thought process.

tony hipchest
06-15-2012, 07:00 PM
geeze vincent... next thing we know, you will be telling us necrophilia, beastiality, sex with roadklill, and coprophagia is immoral.

i know its not immoral to go poop :poop:, but is it immoral to shove the same food up ones own rectum? :banana:

by these standards some may consider abstinence and celibacy immoral. it is certainly unnatural. even the bible directs us to be "fruitful" :banana: and multiply.

teh only difference is that the advocacy groups fro homosexuality and celibacy are actually relevant. i put the pedophilia advocacy right up there with the banana shover up assers, and skull****ers.

MACH1
06-15-2012, 07:33 PM
What about the gerbil stuffers?

MasterOfPuppets
06-16-2012, 01:30 AM
http://larrysfunnybone.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Gerbil-KY.jpg

Vincent
06-16-2012, 12:22 PM
geeze vincent... next thing we know, you will be telling us necrophilia, beastiality, sex with roadklill, and coprophagia is immoral.

i know its not immoral to go poop :poop:, but is it immoral to shove the same food up ones own rectum? :banana:

by these standards some may consider abstinence and celibacy immoral. it is certainly unnatural. even the bible directs us to be "fruitful" :banana: and multiply.

teh only difference is that the advocacy groups fro homosexuality and celibacy are actually relevant. i put the pedophilia advocacy right up there with the banana shover up assers, and skull****ers.

All relevant, lucid, and as always, eloquently made points Tony. And how is the Little Mrs (http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/ob/monkeys/monkey_makeup.jpg)?

To those that it may have eluded, my posts in this here thread focused on two points - that the same elements that worked to normalize homosexuality are now using the same script to normalize pedophilia, which BTW is protected along with the other 548 APA identified paraphilias by the 2008 hate crimes legislation. Society's acceptance just hasn't caught up... yet. And second that there is a direct documented relationship between homosexual pedophilia and homosexuality. If that upsets you in some way, take a Pirin tablet.

What about the gerbil stuffers?

Yes, I think we can all agree that gerbils close the case that Homo-Americans are just regular folks..

That reminds me of when we lived in the Bay Area. We had a friend that was EMS. Some of the stories were incredible. Our fave was the one when they rushed a guy to the hospital that had shattered a fluorescent tube in ...:ouch: Yessir. Normal as the Green Bay Packers (http://i13.tinypic.com/2nvclkz.jpg). Oh dear, that was a regrettable analogy.

and moving forward, please start formulating arguments in your own words rather than the daisy-chain of cut and paste articles. i'd like to see the actual substance of thought process.

I'm sorry... and you are?:jerkit:

hicksfan
06-16-2012, 12:40 PM
I'm sorry... and you are?:jerkit:

nice dodge. if my shit were that weak i'd check down to a bullshit reply as well. i'll take this as concession you don't have a real point. continue to play with cut and paste, blind assertions and red herrings. it's funny how piss-ants like you have all the answers until someone asks a real question and then you zip your lip.

typical....

hicksfan
06-16-2012, 12:57 PM
Yes, I think we can all agree that gerbils close the case that Homo-Americans are just regular folks..

yes yes, only homos indulge in erotophonophilia, zoosadism, pedophilia, mecanophilia, flatulophilia, emetophilia, coprophilia, biastophilia, apotemnophilia and necrophilia. heteros are above fetishes, as any scat lover website will certify.

hicksfan
06-16-2012, 01:57 PM
if anyone would like to assume mr vincent's assertion of homosexuality's inherent immorality, since he chose to bow out of the conversation with me, i am still all ears as to the rationalization as he never attempted to answer (typical).

if anyone agrees with his assertion pedophilia will be normalized in 5 years, i have a tin foil hat for you. you've earned it.

Wallace108
06-16-2012, 03:44 PM
I already had this debate, and I really don't feel like getting into again. But against my better judgment, I want to make one point.

if anyone would like to assume mr vincent's assertion of homosexuality's inherent immorality, since he chose to bow out of the conversation with me, i am still all ears as to the rationalization as he never attempted to answer (typical).

if anyone agrees with his assertion pedophilia will be normalized in 5 years, i have a tin foil hat for you. you've earned it.

The way most Americans view homosexuality today isn't the way it used to be viewed. There was a time in our society when homosexuality was viewed no differently than pedophilia. I'm not suggesting a link between the two. I'm just saying that both were viewed as disgusting, immoral, and just wrong by the standards of our society. Homosexuality is now viewed as "normal" by most Americans because we've become desensitized to it.

Nothing about the act itself changed. What changed is how we view it. And that change didn't happen overnight, or in 5 years. It took years and years of groups pushing for it to be normalized and for us to become desensitized to it. And now most of us accept it as normal. Fifty years ago, if any of us would have suggested that by 2012, homosexuality would largely be viewed as normal, we would have been called crazy.

As Vincent has pointed out, there are already groups who are pushing for the normalization of pedophilia, just as there were groups pushing for the normalization of homosexuality. And if you don't think that underage children are already starting to be sexualized in our society and that to some degree we're already starting to become desensitized to it, then you haven't been paying attention. Right now, it's impossible for any of us to accept the idea of pedophilia being viewed as "normal." But it has been viewed as normal in other societies. And there was a time when no one would have thought it possible for homosexuality to be viewed as normal.

Atlanta Dan
06-16-2012, 04:01 PM
Whether it is a matter of being "desensitized" or "enlightened" I suppose depends on your view of the practice under discussion

Vincent's initial post in the thread tossed this chum into the water

Where is the line between the homosexual rape of a child and them merely being a "couple"?

Forgive some of us for concluding that was not posted for purposes of opening up an objective discussion of changing sexual and social mores over time

Wallace108
06-16-2012, 04:43 PM
Whether it is a matter of being "desensitized" or "enlightened" I suppose depends on your view of the practice under discussion

Vincent's initial post in the thread tossed this chum into the water



Forgive some of us for concluding that was not posted for purposes of opening up an objective discussion of changing sexual and social mores over time

I got mad respect for Vincent and agree with him more times than not. But yeah, I had no idea where this thread was going when it started. I'm still not sure. :chuckle: I should know better and just sit this one out. This can be a tiring debate.

MasterOfPuppets
06-16-2012, 04:53 PM
bu...bu...bush...

Bob Chapman: Kissinger & the Bushes Are Famous Pedophiles

IC8-Gzy-Qcs

Vincent
06-16-2012, 05:28 PM
nice dodge.

That wasn't a dodge Hicks. It was disrespect. 2200+ posts say that I'll cross swords with anybody, on any subject.

Mr Wallace here readily grasps the simple point I was making, and expands on it very nicely. My point is simply that history is repeating itself.

The way most Americans view homosexuality today isn't the way it used to be viewed. There was a time in our society when homosexuality was viewed no differently than pedophilia. I'm not suggesting a link between the two. I'm just saying that both were viewed as disgusting, immoral, and just wrong by the standards of our society. Homosexuality is now viewed as "normal" by most Americans because we've become desensitized to it.

Nothing about the act itself changed. What changed is how we view it. And that change didn't happen overnight, or in 5 years. It took years and years of groups pushing for it to be normalized and for us to become desensitized to it. And now most of us accept it as normal. Fifty years ago, if any of us would have suggested that by 2012, homosexuality would largely be viewed as normal, we would have been called crazy.

Bulls eye.

As Vincent has pointed out, there are already groups who are pushing for the normalization of pedophilia, just as there were groups pushing for the normalization of homosexuality. And if you don't think that underage children are already starting to be sexualized in our society and that to some degree we're already starting to become desensitized to it, then you haven't been paying attention. Right now, it's impossible for any of us to accept the idea of pedophilia being viewed as "normal." But it has been viewed as normal in other societies. And there was a time when no one would have thought it possible for homosexuality to be viewed as normal.

Exactly. IMHO, we're about 5-10 years out.

Vincent's initial post in the thread tossed this chum into the water.

Vincent's initial post was unambiguously "Where is the line between the homosexual rape of a child and them merely being a "couple"?" The responses hovered around consent.

If Jerry's Kids had consented, would there have been the furor?

As this society moves toward acceptance of pedophilia and the Sanduskys of the world are freer to operate, more will be drawn in. It's self-proliferating (http://forums.steelersfever.com/showpost.php?p=1016129&postcount=21).

Its interesting that this Sandusky affair was cloistered within academia, isn't it? There are some that fear that this isn't even the tip of the iceberg. Can you imagine the furor if its breadth were known? I can see why academia would want to push that envelop a little.

Atlanta Dan
06-16-2012, 06:29 PM
I got mad respect for Vincent and agree with him more times than not. But yeah, I had no idea where this thread was going when it started. I'm still not sure. :chuckle: I should know better and just sit this one out. This can be a tiring debate.

When it comes to posting in threads like this I am like a recovering alcoholic who thinks he can take one drink and wakes up in the gutter after anotherr binge:chuckle:

I really need to remember to stick to the NFL threads
:drink:

MasterOfPuppets
06-16-2012, 06:49 PM
When it comes to posting in threads like this I am like a recovering alcoholic who thinks he can take one drink and wakes up in the gutter after anotherr binge:chuckle:

I really need to remember to stick to the NFL threads
:drink:
the board is no longer run by the self righteous nazis... put the gloves on and indulge amigo ...:thumbsup:

http://www.jesseshunting.com/images/mills-lane-lets-get-it-on.jpg

Wallace108
06-16-2012, 10:25 PM
When it comes to posting in threads like this I am like a recovering alcoholic who thinks he can take one drink and wakes up in the gutter after anotherr binge:chuckle:

I really need to remember to stick to the NFL threads
:drink:

I find myself getting into just as much hot water in those threads. :sofunny:

This thread can make for a great debate. But it won't be pretty.

MasterOfPuppets
06-16-2012, 11:55 PM
I find myself getting into just as much hot water in those threads. :sofunny:

This thread can make for a great debate. But it won't be pretty.
me and scmom stood up for you and buddaha ....:thumbsup:

ricardisimo
06-17-2012, 03:22 AM
I'm missing something, I guess. How could anyone have read something debatable in Vinny's original post? It didn't even make any sense. :noidea:

hicksfan
06-18-2012, 12:16 PM
I already had this debate, and I really don't feel like getting into again. But against my better judgment, I want to make one point.



The way most Americans view homosexuality today isn't the way it used to be viewed. There was a time in our society when homosexuality was viewed no differently than pedophilia. I'm not suggesting a link between the two. I'm just saying that both were viewed as disgusting, immoral, and just wrong by the standards of our society. Homosexuality is now viewed as "normal" by most Americans because we've become desensitized to it.

Nothing about the act itself changed. What changed is how we view it. And that change didn't happen overnight, or in 5 years. It took years and years of groups pushing for it to be normalized and for us to become desensitized to it. And now most of us accept it as normal. Fifty years ago, if any of us would have suggested that by 2012, homosexuality would largely be viewed as normal, we would have been called crazy.

As Vincent has pointed out, there are already groups who are pushing for the normalization of pedophilia, just as there were groups pushing for the normalization of homosexuality. And if you don't think that underage children are already starting to be sexualized in our society and that to some degree we're already starting to become desensitized to it, then you haven't been paying attention. Right now, it's impossible for any of us to accept the idea of pedophilia being viewed as "normal." But it has been viewed as normal in other societies. And there was a time when no one would have thought it possible for homosexuality to be viewed as normal.

the way most americans view race and women's equality (among several other issues) today isn't the way it used to be viewed either and nothing about those acts have changed either. i don't think you have a very strong point unless you can connect homosexuality with being immoral at a base level. adding pedophilia to the mix is a red herring as well as a slippery slope fallacy, as we already understand pedophilia occurs heterosexually as well. until someone can validate the immorality at a base level, i think we chalk it up to another life lesson about judging without merit. if it's truly immoral on it's own, it should be explainable. "because that's how it's always been" is weak reconciliation for why we shouldn't learn from our mistakes. it's been proven way too man times man didn't start with all the answers, many have had to be learned along the way.

hicksfan
06-18-2012, 12:18 PM
That wasn't a dodge Hicks. It was disrespect. 2200+ posts say that I'll cross swords with anybody, on any subject.

i guess it's when people ask you to validate your claims, that's when you clam up? all i'm asking for is proof that homosexuality has moral implications at a base level as you've insinuated and practically boasted. i just want to see where the rubber meets the road on the issue. otherwise, you're all hot air. 2200+ posts of it. you love your opinion, that's about it. no proof behind it, but obviously why bother with that?

hicksfan
06-18-2012, 12:21 PM
anyone else want to try? these arguments so far have been paltry at best. this must be how galileo felt with the catholic church all up his ass about heliocentrism.

Vincent
06-18-2012, 02:58 PM
i guess it's when people ask you to validate your claims, that's when you clam up? all i'm asking for is proof that homosexuality has moral implications at a base level as you've insinuated and practically boasted. i just want to see where the rubber meets the road on the issue. otherwise, you're all hot air. 2200+ posts of it. you love your opinion, that's about it. no proof behind it, but obviously why bother with that?

I didn't comment on the morality of homosexuality. You inferred. In fact there were but two comments on morality in even the articles I posted...

“Morality was once revealed, inherited and shared, but now it’s thought of as something that emerges in the privacy of your own heart.”

“We were told that morality is relative and that right and wrong are simply cultural preferences.”

... homosexuality wasn't mentioned.

Perhaps there's some point you'd like to make.

Buddha Bus
06-18-2012, 04:04 PM
Fret not Buddha. Soon you will be free to be “minor-attracted".

I'm not fretting. It will not happen.... PERIOD.


The argument that the "pedophile agenda" is following the same script as the "homosexual agenda" in gaining acceptance and tolerance rings extremely hollow at best. It doesn't mean there is any more correlation between the two than if I had an agenda to push following the same path to societal acceptance, like say to have sex with dead bodies and devour them in front of pre-schoolers on Sunday outside of a church. Just because a "cause" follows a specific successful blueprint by which another unrelated cause gained societal acceptance does not make it the same or similar.

The argument I have always made in regards to this issue has been boiled down to 2 simplistic points in my view.

1) Is the activity in question between 2 consenting adults? If yes, proceed to point 2.

2) Is the activity in question directly violating another person's/animal's civil rights or harming them in any way? If no, bugger away!

Those are the 2 simple criteria that need to be met in my eyes for it to be OK. All else is just bullshit flowery wordsmithing to try to obfuscate the truth or muddy the waters in favor of one's opinion. It shouldn't matter to anyone what 2 consenting adults do with (or to) each other in the privacy of their own home as long as they are consenting and not harming anyone else.

hicksfan
06-18-2012, 04:52 PM
I didn't comment on the morality of homosexuality. You inferred. In fact there were but two comments on morality in even the articles I posted...

“Morality was once revealed, inherited and shared, but now it’s thought of as something that emerges in the privacy of your own heart.”

“We were told that morality is relative and that right and wrong are simply cultural preferences.”

... homosexuality wasn't mentioned.

Perhaps there's some point you'd like to make.

foot in mouth and head up ass. you can't dance around the issue until you pull one of them out. you've inferred, you've directly replied "bulls eye" to wallace108's comment "I'm just saying that both were viewed as disgusting, immoral, and just wrong by the standards of our society."

care to try any more passive-aggressive bullshit? you equate homosexuality with pedophilia, a completely immoral act. the inference is automatic, no? morality is based upon an ethic of reciprocity, regardless of the twist implied in your articles.

what exactly is your axe to grind, then? if you're not gay what the **** does it matter to you if other people are (outside of your ****ed up equation homo = pedo)? and what exactly is the rub if two people, same-sex, share a relationship that makes them feel loved and appreciated? just wondering where the hate comes from, it's a valid question. it's your inability to even try to answer that makes you look that much more silly.

grow a set and try to rationally explain your point. i'll wait.

Steelboy84
06-18-2012, 06:31 PM
foot in mouth and head up ass. you can't dance around the issue until you pull one of them out. you've inferred, you've directly replied "bulls eye" to wallace108's comment "I'm just saying that both were viewed as disgusting, immoral, and just wrong by the standards of our society."

care to try any more passive-aggressive bullshit? you equate homosexuality with pedophilia, a completely immoral act. the inference is automatic, no? morality is based upon an ethic of reciprocity, regardless of the twist implied in your articles.

what exactly is your axe to grind, then? if you're not gay what the **** does it matter to you if other people are (outside of your ****ed up equation homo = pedo)? and what exactly is the rub if two people, same-sex, share a relationship that makes them feel loved and appreciated? just wondering where the hate comes from, it's a valid question. it's your inability to even try to answer that makes you look that much more silly.

grow a set and try to rationally explain your point. i'll wait.


The same place it comes from towards minorities, non-Christians, and pretty much anyone that doesn't represent their idea of a straight, Aryan-male, Christian dominated society.

SteelersinCA
06-18-2012, 06:45 PM
I'd still like an explanation as to the connection between homosexuality and pedophilia when there are far more heterosexual pedophiliacs than homosexual. I won't hold my breath.

MasterOfPuppets
06-18-2012, 07:12 PM
SICA are you considering the fact that there's far more hetero's than homo's ? the real tell tale is the percentages of offenders within each group ... take the below article with a grain of salt considering it was written by a biased source , but they do sight their study source.

thought i'd throw some fuel on the fire .....:chuckle:

Gay activists have strenuously argued that there is no connection between homosexuality and the sexual abuse of children. They point out that the majority of child molestation cases are by heterosexuals. But they neglect a pivotal fact: Homosexuals comprise only a small percentage of the population, yet account for an extraordinarily high percentage of offenses against children.
A recent study in Demography estimated the number of exclusive male homosexuals in the general population at 2.5 percent, and the number of exclusive lesbians at 1.4 percent. The study took into account three large data sets, including the all-encompassing U.S. Census.
Now consider a report from the Journal of Sex Research which noted that homosexual pedophiles commit about one-third of the total number of child sex offenses, even though they are outnumbered by heterosexuals 20 to one. Less than four percent of the population commits one-third of the offenses against children!
In The Gay Report, homosexual researchers report data showing that better than 7 out of 10 homosexuals surveyed had at some time had sex with boys 16 to 19.
Or consider a study in Archives of Sexual Behavior, which found that of 229 convicted child molesters surveyed, “85 percent of offenders against males described themselves as homosexual or bisexual.”
The evidence is clear. Homosexuals have an overwhelming propensity towards child molestation. This is not to say that all homosexuals act out with pedophile tendencies. But the percentage of those who do is so disproportionately high it would be irresponsible and costly to ignore. Just ask the Roman Catholic Church.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Sodomy/pedophile_connection.htm

Vis
06-18-2012, 07:52 PM
SICA are you considering the fact that there's far more hetero's than homo's ? the real tell tale is the percentages of offenders within each group ... take the below article with a grain of salt considering it was written by a biased source , but they do sight their study source.

thought i'd throw some fuel on the fire .....:chuckle:


http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Sodomy/pedophile_connection.htm

That's not from a site with a dog in the fight, huh.

Vincent
06-18-2012, 08:41 PM
Its live the remake of a movie. Different actors. Same script.

http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=11517
Oct 15, 2011
Pedophiles want same rights as homosexuals
Claim unfair to be stigmatized for sexual orientation

by Jack Minor –

Using the same tactics used by “gay” rights activists, pedophiles have begun to seek similar status arguing their desire for children is a sexual orientation no different than heterosexual or homosexuals.

Critics of the homosexual lifestyle have long claimed that once it became acceptable to identify homosexuality as simply an “alternative lifestyle” or sexual orientation, logically nothing would be off limits. “Gay” advocates have taken offense at such a position insisting this would never happen. However, psychiatrists are now beginning to advocate redefining pedophilia in the same way homosexuality was redefined several years ago.

In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association declassified homosexuality from its list of mental disorders. A group of psychiatrists with B4U-Act recently held a symposium proposing a new definition of pedophilia in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Health Disorders of the APA.

B4U-Act calls pedophiles “minor-attracted people.” The organization’s website states its purpose is to, “help mental health professionals learn more about attraction to minors and to consider the effects of stereotyping, stigma and fear.”

In 1998 The APA issued a report claiming “that the ‘negative potential’ of adult sex with children was ‘overstated’ and that ‘the vast majority of both men and women reported no negative sexual effects from childhood sexual abuse experiences.”

Pedophilia has already been granted protected status by the Federal Government. The Matthew Shephard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act lists “sexual orientation” as a protected class; however, it does not define the term.

Republicans attempted to add an amendment specifying that “pedophilia is not covered as an orientation;” however, the amendment was defeated by Democrats. Rep. Alcee Hastings (D-Fl) stated that all alternative sexual lifestyles should be protected under the law. “This bill addresses our resolve to end violence based on prejudice and to guarantee that all Americans, regardless of race, color, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability or all of these ‘philias’ and fetishes and ‘isms’ that were put forward need not live in fear because of who they are. I urge my colleagues to vote in favor of this rule.”

The White House praised the bill saying, “At root, this isn’t just about our laws; this is about who we are as a people. This is about whether we value one another – whether we embrace our differences rather than allowing them to become a source of animus.”

Earlier this year two psychologists in Canada declared that pedophilia is a sexual orientation just like homosexuality or heterosexuality.

Van Gijseghem, psychologist and retired professor of the University of Montreal, told members of Parliament, “Pedophiles are not simply people who commit a small offense from time to time but rather are grappling with what is equivalent to a sexual orientation just like another individual may be grappling with heterosexuality or even homosexuality.”

He went on to say, “True pedophiles have an exclusive preference for children, which is the same as having a sexual orientation. You cannot change this person’s sexual orientation. He may, however, remain abstinent.”

When asked if he should be comparing pedophiles to homosexuals, Van Gijseghem replied, “If, for instance, you were living in a society where heterosexuality is proscribed or prohibited and you were told that you had to get therapy to change your sexual orientation, you would probably say that that is slightly crazy. In other words, you would not accept that at all. I use this analogy to say that, yes indeed, pedophiles do not change their sexual orientation.”

Dr. Quinsey, professor emeritus of psychology at Queen’s University in Kingston, Ontario, agreed with Van Gijseghem. Quinsey said pedophiles’ sexual interests prefer children and, “There is no evidence that this sort of preference can be changed through treatment or through anything else.”

In July, 2010 Harvard health Publications said, “Pedophilia is a sexual orientation and unlikely to change. Treatment aims to enable someone to resist acting on his sexual urges.”

Linda Harvey, of Mission America, said the push for pedophiles to have equal rights will become more and more common as LGBT groups continue to assert themselves. “It’s all part of a plan to introduce sex to children at younger and younger ages; to convince them that normal friendship is actually a sexual attraction.”

Milton Diamond, a University of Hawaii professor and director of the Pacific Center for Sex and Society, stated that child pornography could be beneficial to society because, “Potential sex offenders use child pornography as a substitute for sex against children.”

Diamond is a distinguished lecturer for the Institute for the Advanced Study of Human Sexuality in San Francisco. The IASHS openly advocated for the repeal of the Revolutionary war ban on homosexuals serving in the military.

The IASHS lists, on its website, a list of “basic sexual rights” that includes “the right to engage in sexual acts or activities of any kind whatsoever, providing they do not involve nonconsensual acts, violence, constraint, coercion or fraud.” Another right is to, “be free of persecution, condemnation, discrimination, or societal intervention in private sexual behavior” and “the freedom of any sexual thought, fantasy or desire.” The organization also says that no one should be “disadvantaged because of age.”

Sex offender laws protecting children have been challenged in several states including California, Georgia and Iowa. Sex offenders claim the laws prohibiting them from living near schools or parks are unfair because it penalizes them for life.

ricardisimo
06-18-2012, 11:36 PM
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html

I'm still at a loss as to why we are wasting ink on this.

Vis
06-19-2012, 03:37 AM
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html

I'm still at a loss as to why we are wasting ink on this.

Reread the big inning of your article. It explains why.

Vincent
06-19-2012, 06:41 AM
Retread the big inning of your article. It explains why.

That's not from a site with a dog in the fight, huh.

I hear you Vis.

Notes

1. The survey was conducted under the auspices of the Kinsey Institute (Klassen, Williams, & Levitt, 1989). (return to text)

They who lead us down that path to begin with.

SteelersinCA
06-19-2012, 07:32 AM
Geez Ric you can't quote scientific studies from academia because they're in on the child molester movement. You see nothing is credible unless Vincent says so because otherwise they are biased. Unless rush limbaugh says it or he supports it, it's not valid in this debate. Know the rules you liberal hippie.

Somehow Vincent has made the logical leap that pedophilia is the same as child molesting. If that were the case these right wing moon bats wouldn't still be 40 year old virgins.

Vis
06-19-2012, 08:03 AM
Maybe a Mod can spin off a thread for the people who hate gays. Back to the trial of the accused rapist.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/19/us-usa-crime-sandusky-idUSBRE85F0LC20120619

The defense for accused child sex offender Jerry Sandusky resumes on Tuesday after a first day of testimony in which witnesses for the former Penn State football coach vouched for his good character.

The high-profile trial is in its final stages, with Judge John Cleland telling jurors on Monday he expected closing arguments to take place on Thursday.

The jury of seven women and five men then will be sequestered at a local hotel, he said.

Sandusky, 68, the former defensive coordinator for Pennsylvania State University's high-powered football program, is accused of abusing 10 boys over a 15-year period, some at university facilities.

The charges focused renewed national attention on child sexual abuse and prompted the firing in November of university President Graham Spanier and legendary head football coach Joe Paterno.

Eight of the alleged victims, now men aged 18 to 28, offered sometimes-graphic testimony last week for the prosecution. The testimony included accounts of molestation ranging from groping and bear hugs in football showers to oral and anal sex.

With defense attorney Joe Amendola seeking a more upbeat assessment of Sandusky, two former Penn State assistant coaches, Booker Brooks and Richard Anderson, testified that it was not unusual for men to shower with boys in Penn State locker rooms.

Anderson said he had seen Sandusky in the showers with children, but never saw anything inappropriate. Brooks told jurors he had also showered with children and he considered Sandusky "a great guy."

"A LOT OF GOOFING AROUND"

Another witness, political campaign strategist David Pasquinelli, testified he had worked with Sandusky on a fundraising campaign from October 2007 to spring 2009 for the Second Mile charity, a group Sandusky had founded for at-risk youth.

Asked by Amendola to characterize the interaction between Sandusky and children, he said: "I saw a lot of goofing around. Jerry had a very unique way, and many of us were inspired by this, to relate to youth" on several levels.

Amendola has said he will call Sandusky to testify, but Tom Kline, a lawyer for one of the alleged victims, told Reuters there probably was not enough time for the former coach to take the stand.

The judge said the defense planned to conclude at midday on Wednesday, and Sandusky alone would probably take a half day to a full day for testimony, Kline said.

Earlier Monday, the final prosecution witness testified that her son, who told jurors last week he bled from being anally raped, was often missing his underwear when he returned from visits with Sandusky.

When she noticed her son did not have his underwear when he came home, the boy would tell her he had an accident and threw them out.

Sandusky had faced 52 counts of child molestation, but the prosecution dropped one charge of unlawful contact with minors on Monday.

Two university officials also face charges of perjury and failure to report suspected abuse in an alleged incident involving Sandusky and a boy at a Penn State locker room.

ricardisimo
06-19-2012, 08:55 AM
Well, as long as we're back on topic, I hasten to point out that I hope Sandusky can get a fair trial. He won't, but it would be nice if he could. :noidea:

Atlanta Dan
06-19-2012, 10:29 AM
Well, as long as we're back on topic, I hasten to point out that I hope Sandusky can get a fair trial. He won't, but it would be nice if he could. :noidea:

?????

Due to pre-trial publicity?

SteelersinCA
06-19-2012, 10:50 AM
It is awfully fast for a case like this to go to trial.

MasterOfPuppets
06-19-2012, 11:22 AM
That's not from a site with a dog in the fight, huh.
i believe i covered that...:noidea:

take the below article with a grain of salt considering it was written by a biased source , but they do sight their study source.

Vis
06-19-2012, 11:26 AM
It is awfully fast for a case like this to go to trial.

over 7 mos

Atlanta Dan
06-19-2012, 12:48 PM
Today's sound bite

[Sandusky's attorney Joe] Amendola told reporters to "stay tuned" to find out if Sandusky would take the stand himself, comparing the case to a soap opera. Asked which soap opera, defense attorney Joe Amendola initially said "General Hospital," then "All My Children."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/football/ncaa/06/19/sandusky.testify.trial.ap/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a4

Stay classy Joe :mad:

SteelersinCA
06-19-2012, 02:01 PM
over 7 mos

That's fast for a case of this scope and the media scrutiny. Look at other high profile cases, 7 months is quick.

SteelersinCA
06-19-2012, 02:04 PM
Today's sound bite

[Sandusky's attorney Joe] Amendola told reporters to "stay tuned" to find out if Sandusky would take the stand himself, comparing the case to a soap opera. Asked which soap opera, defense attorney Joe Amendola initially said "General Hospital," then "All My Children."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/football/ncaa/06/19/sandusky.testify.trial.ap/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a4

Stay classy Joe :mad:

I never thought he was taking the stand. Figured it was a poor tactic to attempt to get in the head of the prosecutor, make them think the defendant will testify. Maybe a young prosecutor would fall for it but I doubt it makes a difference here because he won't testify.

Atlanta Dan
06-19-2012, 02:33 PM
I never thought he was taking the stand. Figured it was a poor tactic to attempt to get in the head of the prosecutor, make them think the defendant will testify. Maybe a young prosecutor would fall for it but I doubt it makes a difference here because he won't testify.

I cannot imagine Sandusky would take the stand, but who knows what his thought processes are by this point

Since Sandusky presumably did not enter a plea because any sentence would be for the rest of his life he may go all in and be delusional enough to think he can charm one juror into not convicting him because he is such a great guy:noidea:

Vis
06-19-2012, 02:34 PM
That's fast for a case of this scope and the media scrutiny. Look at other high profile cases, 7 months is quick.

They got the discovery done quick. The defense wanted to go forward.

Vis
06-19-2012, 02:36 PM
I cannot imagine Sandusky would take the stand, but who knows what his thought processes are by this point

Since Sandusky presumably did not enter a plea because any sentence would be for the rest of his life he may go all in and be delusional enough to think he can charm one juror into not convicting him because he is such a great guy:noidea:

I wouldn't put him on the stand but I haven't heard him tell the story. If they feel like they're cooked anyway they might have to go for it.

Wallace108
06-19-2012, 02:52 PM
I wouldn't put him on the stand but I haven't heard him tell the story. If they feel like they're cooked anyway they might have to go for it.

That's kind of what I'm thinking. But I'm not a lawyer.

Atlanta Dan
06-19-2012, 03:28 PM
I wouldn't put him on the stand but I haven't heard him tell the story. If they feel like they're cooked anyway they might have to go for it.

They are putting his wife on the stand:noidea:

Dottie Sandusky takes the stand in Sandusky trial
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/news/education/defense-continues-its-case-in-sandusky-trial-641014/

Prosecutors presumably will tread carefully with any cross of Ms. Sandusky - what an awful moment for her

ricardisimo
06-19-2012, 05:54 PM
?????

Due to pre-trial publicity?
Yeah, everyone in the country knows who he is, and absolutely none of the commentary that I have seen even pretends to presume innocence, or even allow for that possibility. Mind you, I only watch TV while I'm at the gym, lots of ESPN there, maybe they're more biased than other news sources. :noidea:

Dude's going to jail... long sentence, short stay. He won't make it out alive is my guess. Can I pick Jerry Sandusky in the death pool?

SteelersinCA
06-19-2012, 08:14 PM
They got the discovery done quick. The defense wanted to go forward.

They tried twice to continue it. http://www.pjstar.com/free/x624596018/Judge-in-Jerry-Sandusky-case-won-t-delay-sex-abuse-trial

Vis
06-20-2012, 05:40 AM
They tried twice to continue it. http://www.pjstar.com/free/x624596018/Judge-in-Jerry-Sandusky-case-won-t-delay-sex-abuse-trial

Theiyre in trouble if a they can't give grounds for a delay. Its not hard to get if legitimate. Anyone know this attorney?

SteelersinCA
06-20-2012, 12:43 PM
I don't know him, or anyone that does but I am completely unimpressed by him. Contrast him with Clemens' attorney and it's night and day.

Atlanta Dan
06-20-2012, 01:01 PM
This is a bio of Sandusky's attorney - he apparently has a pretty good reputaton as an a attorney

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/06/jerry_sanduskys_defense_attorn.html

As far as his personal reputation - not so good

Joe Amendola, the State College, Pa., attorney representing accused child molester Jerry Sandusky, has an interesting back story himself: He got a teen-age client pregnant during the mid-1990s.

Amendola, 63, married the girl several years after the birth of their child, The Daily reported Monday night, citing documents filed at the Centre County, Pa., courthouse.

Amendola represented a 16-year-old girl then known as Mary Iavasile when she filed an emancipation petition in September 1996. The emancipation petition said the girl had graduated from high school in two years with a 3.69 GPA and held a fulltime job at Amendola's law office.

The girl gave birth to Amendola's child when she was 17 years old, her mother, Janet Iavasile, said. Amendola would have been about 49 years old at the time. The age of consent in Pennsylvania is 16

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/jerry-sandusky-lawyer-joe-amendola-a-16-year-old-client-pregnant-married-article-1.977873

Vis
06-21-2012, 08:37 AM
Sandusky Case Ending; More Activity Looms
By RICHARD PÉREZ-PEÑA

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. — With the news that the child sexual abuse trial of Jerry Sandusky will go to the jury Thursday, after just nine days of testimony and arguments, whatever sense of relief people here feel is matched by the knowledge that the ordeal of the scandal that rocked the major institutions in this corner of Pennsylvania is far from over.

Defense lawyers rested their case Wednesday morning, ruling out a prospect that people here had viewed with a mix of fascination and dread: that Sandusky, a former Penn State assistant football coach, would take the witness stand to answer charges that he sexually abused 10 boys. The prosecution and the defense will make closing arguments Thursday.

But lurking ahead are the pending criminal charges against two former top Penn State officials, the possibility of further revelations leading to more indictments, potential lawsuits by Sandusky’s accusers, and an investigation commissioned by the university’s board of trustees, conducted by a former F.B.I. director, Louis J. Freeh.

In a region where emotions and livelihoods rise and fall with the university, people voiced eagerness to put the trial and the entire scandal behind them, but they are in for more news coverage, more accusations, more court cases.

“This trial is the big thing that people want to have resolved,” said Eddie Magulick, owner of Eddie’s, a bicycle shop across College Avenue from the Penn State campus. “It’s been devastating for this region, no question.”

Eric Silver, a sociology professor, said: “My sense of the situation is that the community is following the trial quietly but intently, and that folks here will be relieved when it is all over. I would guess that most people also are worried about what might come next.”

While some people here wanted Sandusky to testify and endure cross-examination by prosecutors, others were grateful to be spared that spectacle — in his few media interviews, he has been awkward and ineffectual in defending himself — or just glad that the trial might wrap up that much sooner.

“Let justice be done, and let’s get past it as soon as possible,” said Lynn McCoy, a hair stylist.

When the charges against Sandusky were made public last fall, several university officials were accused of not taking action to stop him when they should have. Graham B. Spanier, Penn State’s president, and Joe Paterno, the legendary head football coach who died in January, lost their jobs. Gary Schultz, a senior vice president, and Tim Curley, the athletic director, were indicted on charges of failing to report one episode to law enforcement, and lying to a grand jury about it.

On Wednesday, in the Centre County courthouse in nearby Bellefonte, Sandusky’s defense team called its final witnesses, still trying to sow doubt among jurors about the prosecution’s case on 51 criminal charges.

One of the most dramatic prosecution witnesses last week was Mike McQueary, the only witness aside from the accusers who said he saw Sandusky sexually assaulting a boy. McQueary testified that in 2001, when he was a young graduate assistant coach, he saw Sandusky pinning a young boy against the wall of a locker room shower at Penn State, his arm wrapped around the boy’s midsection, and claimed, “He was having sex with a minor.”

But on Wednesday, a McQueary family friend, Jonathan Dranov, testified that on the night of the incident, McQueary told him a somewhat different story. At the request of McQueary’s father, John, Dranov said, he drove to their home and found Mike McQueary “visibly shaken and upset.”

“His voice was trembling; his hands were shaking,” said Dranov, who is a doctor.

He said Mike McQueary told him that in the locker room, “he heard some sexual sounds,” but did not claim to see any physical contact. He said McQueary told him that a boy stepped out of the shower, not seeming upset, and then “an arm reached out and pulled the boy back.” A little later, he saw Sandusky step from the shower.

Asked by a prosecutor, Joseph McGettigan, if McQueary was someone who was easily shaken, Dranov said, “Certainly not.”

A defense lawyer, Karl Rominger, asked, “Did he describe any particular sex act?”

“No, he did not,” Dranov said. “He implied that it had gone on with what he had heard, sexual sounds,” but, he said, McQueary was too upset to elaborate on what kinds of sounds he meant.

The defense called as a witness Sara Ganim, the reporter for The Patriot-News of Harrisburg who won a Pulitzer Prize for breaking the story of the scandal. But after her lawyer conferred with both sides in the case and Judge John M. Cleland, she did not take the stand.

Instead, McGettigan explained to the jury that all sides agreed on two things: first, that Ganim would have been asked whether she spoke to the mother of one accuser before any charges were filed against Sandusky and told her how to contact law enforcement authorities; and second, that she would have answered “yes.”

The defense has repeatedly suggested that the abuse stories were suggested to the accusers by others, or that they were motivated by hopes of lawsuit payouts.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/21/sports/ncaafootball/defense-rests-in-sandusky-case.html

Vis
06-21-2012, 02:02 PM
Jerry Sandusky's adopted son ready to testify against him



Bellefonte — Matt Sandusky, Jerry Sandusky’s adopted son, was prepared to testify against his father Wednesday, according to NBC’s “Today Show” this morning.

Citing unnamed sources “close to the case,” NBC said prosecutors warned Jerry Sandusky’s defense team that if the defendant took the stand, prosecutors would call Matt Sandusky as a rebuttal witness. According to the sources, Matt Sandusky contacted prosecutors after the trial began with “damaging testimony” about his father’s behavior.

Jerry Sandusky did not testify, and Matt Sandusky left the courthouse accompanied by state troopers.

NBC said a “source close to the defense” maintained that there was not a single factor that led to Jerry Sandusky’s not testifying.

Sandusky faces 48 counts of child sexual abuse after three counts were dropped this morning. The jury is hearing closing arguments today, and is expected to begin deliberations this afternoon.

Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/2012/06/21/3237097/nbc-sanduskys-adopted-son-ready.html#storylink=cpy

Vis
06-21-2012, 02:06 PM
Sandusky Prosecutor Cites 'Overwhelming Evidence' in Closing


Thursday, June 21, 2012


June 21 (Bloomberg) -- A prosecutor cited "overwhelming evidence" against Jerry Sandusky, the former Pennsylvania State University assistant football coach charged with molesting young boys, while the defense questioned the motives of his accusers.

Both sides presented closing arguments today in state court in Bellefonte, Pennsylvania, where Sandusky, 68, has been on trial since June 11, charged with sexually abusing 10 boys over a 15-year period. The former coach, who has denied the allegations, rested his defense yesterday without taking the witness stand.

Prosecutors say Sandusky used the charity he founded in 1977, the Second Mile, to recruit victims, "grooming" them with gifts, trips to football games and money, and luring them into university athletic shower rooms, hotels and his house. Some of his accusers took the witness stand to recount what Sandusky allegedly did to them as children.

"When there's overwhelming evidence, the defendant does a number of things: He admits what he must, he denies what he can, calls everyone a liar, makes counter-charges," the prosecutor, Joseph McGettigan, told the jury. "You always have to accuse the victims, you always have to allege a conspiracy, and that's what you saw here."

Sandusky faces 47 counts related to the alleged assaults, including claims that he engaged in involuntary deviate sexual intercourse with children under 16. Each of those counts carries a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison. Judge John Cleland today threw out four counts.

Defense Questions

"All of these alleged charges only go back to the 1990s. So out of the blue, after all these years, when Mr. Sandusky is in his mid-50s, he decides to become a pedophile?" Joseph Amendola, the lead defense lawyer, asked the jury. "Does that make sense to anybody?"

During most of a week of defense testimony, Amendola presented witnesses who attested to his client's good character. Sandusky's wife, Dottie, testified June 19 that she never had any indication of the misconduct attributed to her husband.

The prosecutor displayed pictures of the alleged victims.

"I don't want to tug on your heartstrings," McGettigan said. "I want to remind you of the substance of what this is about."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2012/06/21/bloomberg_articlesM5Z0ZF6VDKI501-M5Z8P.DTL

Steelboy84
06-21-2012, 06:11 PM
According to the PA State Department, he's also a registered Republican.

GERALD SANDUSKY (Date of Birth: 01/26/1944) is registered to vote in CENTRE County

Status : ACTIVE

Party : REPUBLICAN

https://www.pavoterservices.state.pa.us/Pages/VoterRegistrationStatus.aspx


Well, it certainly fits.


http://scottystarnes.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/not-my-fault-republican-congress-are-shopaholics-4c2c59_2_21.jpg

:drink:

MACH1
06-21-2012, 06:38 PM
And what the f*** does that have to do with anything?

Atlanta Dan
06-21-2012, 07:02 PM
And what the f*** does that have to do with anything?

Seems pretty obvious - being a Republican leads to pedophilia:chuckle:

Maybe someone should start a thread that links to studies that establish the same type of campaign that has been seeking to "normalize" being a Republican is now being used to "normalize" pedophilia

Where is the line between the homosexual rape of a child and being a Republican? :wink02:

MACH1
06-21-2012, 07:25 PM
Democrat Pedophiles and Sex Offenders Outnumber Repubs, many Dems re-elected.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f4c_1254342072

:noidea:

MasterOfPuppets
06-21-2012, 07:25 PM
Matt Sandusky says he was abused by father, Jerry Sandusky

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/matt-sandusky-says-abused-father-jerry-sandusky-214145968.html


hang him , put his head on a spike for public display , and quit wasting tax payer money on the case...:popcorn:

MACH1
06-21-2012, 07:27 PM
Matt Sandusky says he was abused by father, Jerry Sandusky

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/matt-sandusky-says-abused-father-jerry-sandusky-214145968.html


hang him , put his head on a spike for public display , and quit wasting tax payer money on the case...:popcorn:


:applaudit:

MasterOfPuppets
06-21-2012, 07:30 PM
http://www.republicansexoffenders.com/header2.gif

http://www.republicansexoffenders.com/

Atlanta Dan
06-21-2012, 07:32 PM
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f4c_1254342072

:noidea:

Good Lord

i guess I will need to spell it out

I WAS BEING SARCASTIC:flap:

Contending any particular political affiliation has a relationship to pedophilia is ludicrous, but given how this thread took a turn into the ditch on the first page with a rhetorical question about "where to draw the line" I suppose I can see how it is hard to see what is a joke and what is being advanced as a serious proposition in this thread

FWIW I have at various times voted for the Gipper and both Bushes for President
:drink:

MACH1
06-21-2012, 07:39 PM
Good Lord

i guess I will need to spell it out

I WAS BEING SARCASTIC:flap:

Contending any particular political affiliation has a relationship to pedophilia is ludicrous, but given how this thread took a turn into the ditch on the first page with a rhetorical question about "where to draw the line" I suppose I can see how it is hard to see what is a joke and what is being advanced as a serious proposition in this thread

FWIW I have at various times voted for the Gipper and both Bushes for President
:drink:

Yes I know. :toofunny:

Vincent
06-21-2012, 08:42 PM
According to the PA State Department, he's also a registered Republican.

Yours is a big tent Steeltwink. Are you going to make room for him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V3F80r3h7Y

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f4c_1254342072

http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=2269

http://thestateofamerica.wordpress.com/2009/04/29/congressional-democrats-attempts-to-legalize-gay-pedophilia/

http://www.fdfny.org/blog/2012/06/11/the-pedophile-wing-of-the-democrat-party-is-at-it-again/

Steelboy84
06-21-2012, 09:20 PM
Seems pretty obvious - being a Republican leads to pedophilia:chuckle:

Maybe someone should start a thread that links to studies that establish the same type of campaign that has been seeking to "normalize" being a Republican is now being used to "normalize" pedophilia

Where is the line between the homosexual rape of a child and being a Republican? :wink02:



lol

Steelboy84
06-21-2012, 09:22 PM
http://www.republicansexoffenders.com/header2.gif

http://www.republicansexoffenders.com/



oh my.................


:couch:

Steelboy84
06-21-2012, 09:31 PM
And what the f*** does that have to do with anything?


:binky:


Had I said something about a Democrat or liberal, you'd be the first to agree, so spare me the tears.


:coffee:

Bayz101
06-21-2012, 11:04 PM
:doh:

Tell me again how pointing out the guy's political part contributes to the discussion other than to bait people into arguments?

Wait a minute. Continue. :popcorn:

MACH1
06-22-2012, 12:17 AM
Had I said something about a Democrat or liberal, you'd be the first to agree, so spare me the tears.




Thats because it too easy to do. :noidea:

I'm still waiting for an answer to the question, what does politics have to do with this thread other than stirring up shit?

:jerkit:

Vis
06-22-2012, 08:33 AM
Jerry Sandusky Trial, Day Eight: Adopted Son Drops a Bombshell
by Diane Dimond Jun 21, 2012 5:10 PM EDT

Moments after sexual-abuse charges against his father went to jury, Jerry Sandusky's adopted son came out and said he had been molested. Diane Dimond on the trial's gripping finale.


The prosecutor crossed the courtroom, stood behind Jerry Sandusky, and said of the 10 alleged sexual-abuse victims, “Their childhoods have been incinerated by this serial pedophile.”

A bewildered-looking Sandusky turned awkwardly in his chair and looked up at Joe McGettigan, whose gaze stayed locked on the jury.
Jerry Sandusky


“He knows he did it, you know he did it. Find him guilty of everything!” At that, McGettigan quickly took his seat, and the jury began deliberations at 1:12 p.m.

Because the jury is sequestered, they will not hear of the explosive revelation that came out just moments later: One of Sandusky's adopted sons has reportedly just revealed to prosecutors that he, too, was a sexual molestation victim of the former Penn State football coach. According to the Patriot-News, the newspaper that won a Pulitzer Prize for first reporting the Sandusky scandal, 33-year-old Matt Sandusky had agreed to testify if called, but apparently the judge denied the prosecution's last-minute request. The Daily Beast spoke to Matt's biological mother, Debra Rose Long, in the courtroom today, but she declined to comment on the record. Long has always said she believes the Sanduskys "stole" her son from her, officially adopting him when he turned 18.

A statement released by attorneys Andrew Shubin and Justine Andronici reads in part: "During the trial, Matt Sandusky contacted us and requested our advice and assistance in arranging a meeting with prosecutors to disclose for the first time in this case that he is a victim of Jerry Sandusky's abuse...This has been an extremely painful experience for Matt and he has asked us to convey his request that the media respect his privacy. There will be no further comment at this time."

McGettigan's closing argument came to a crescendo when McGettigan spoke of his days as a homicide prosecutor and the night he says he emptied his pockets at home and thought, I got one too many souls in my pocket—lives that are gone. Now acting as the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania’s lead prosecutor on the Sandusky case, McGettigan told the jury, “I feel like I have ... 10 pieces of souls in my pocket.” He asked the jury, composed of seven women and five men, to find justice for the alleged victims.

The arguments ended seven days of often explicit testimony from young men who accused the former Penn State football coach of grooming them, groping them, and manipulating them into oral and anal sex acts. The activity took place, according to the accusers, in Penn State showers, a basement bedroom at the Sandusky home, and in various hotel rooms.

Some of the charges were dropped as the trial progressed, leaving the jury to come to an agreement on 48 charges including involuntary deviate sexual intercourse, indecent assault of a child, corruption of minors, and endangering the welfare of a child.

Defense attorney Joe Amendola went first. Striking a thoughtful pose, hands stuck in his pants pockets, he admitted to the jury that he had a daunting task.

“How could eight individuals and Mike McQueary and a janitor come in and say these things happened if they didn’t happen?” he asked with a shrug of his lean shoulders. He then launched into a presentation that could best be described as an “it-doesn’t make-sense” defense, punctuated often with the phrase, “Use your common sense, folks.”

Amendola asked the jurors to think about the timing of the charges, coming after one 15-year-old boy made allegations in 2008. Police then spent three years trying to find other victims before filing charges in November 2011.

“If they thought he was such a monster, why didn’t they arrest him [in 2008] and take him off the streets?” Amendola asked, nearly shouting although he stood just a few feet in front of the jury box.

“So, out of the blue, after all these years, when Jerry Sandusky’s in his mid-50s, he decides to become a child molester?” After a dramatic pause Amendola added, “Does that make any sense to anybody?”

The defense spent considerable time attempting to plant seeds of the doubts in the jury’s minds. The jury had heard from Cpl. Joseph Leiter and Cpl. Scott Rossman, state troopers and lead investigators on the Sandusky case, who both testified they never tell potential sex-abuse victims about what other suspected victims have told them. However, the defense had discovered a tape recording of the two officers doing exactly that with alleged victim No. 4. Amendola interpreted the troopers’ statements to the young man—in which they said “about nine victims” had already revealed oral sex and rape—as unethical coaching of a witness. He implied they were part of a conspiracy to bring down Sandusky, a famous Penn State coach.

“They were going to get him come hell or high water—even if they had to coach the witnesses!” Amendola shouted with dramatic wave of his arm. But he also admitted his client had “made dumb decisions, stupid decisions.”

The defense attorney also made much of the argument that as a Penn State coach working up to “17 hours a day during football season,” Sandusky wouldn’t have had time to rotate so many young boys in and out of his house.

Amendola slammed assistant Penn State coach Mike McQueary who testified about stumbling across Sandusky and a young boy engaged in what he believed was anal sex in a locker room shower in 2001.

“Mike McQueary didn’t do one thing to stop what he says he saw!” Amendola said. “Use your common sense. They presented no victim and...no emergency medical report...no one even called the police.”

And finally, Amendola pointed to the spectator section and spoke of all the plaintiffs' lawyers in the room, representing the alleged victims. “You have to decide if they are sitting in this courtroom without having been paid a penny, out of the goodness of their hearts.” And then the familiar refrain. “It just doesn’t make any sense, folks!”

The jury was afforded a 20-minute break to “clear their heads,” as Senior Judge John Cleland described it. Then it was the prosecution’s turn.

Joe McGettigan immediately set about to address some of the defense attorney’s points. First, the so-called Trooper Tape.

“The thing I heard on that that was most important was, ‘You are not alone,’” he said, referring to a frequent mantra of Corporal Leiter’s as he spoke to the young man who would come to be known as victim No. 4. “And, they didn’t let you hear the rest of that tape or you would have heard of all the things that man did to [name redacted.]”

As to the idea that there had been some conspiracy to get Sandusky, McGettigan scoffed. Any such scheme, he said, would have had to include too many people: state troopers; agents of the attorney general’s office; the office of Child and Youth Services; and members of the grand jury, “23 citizens just like yourself.” He added, motioning to his co-counsel: “Oh, yeah, and me and Mr. Fina here too.The idea collapses under its own weight.”

When childhood photos of eight alleged victims were projected on the courtroom’s big screen, members of the jury alternated their gaze from the monitor to the four grown men sitting in the front rows, now ages 18 to 28. McGettigan asked jurors to “have some sympathy and compassion” for the accusing witnesses, “as they tried to tell you about things they had long buried.”

In the jury box, No. 7, a Penn State student, No. 6, an alternate who recently replaced another who was taken ill, and juror No. 4 stared intently at the witnesses, many of whom were seated next to their mothers. One of the young men, a recent Bible College graduate, sat with his arms tightly wrapped around himself. The others jiggled their legs nervously as they listened to McGettigan.

At the defense table, Jerry Sandusky sat with his mouth opened slightly and his eyes blinking at a rapid pace. He too was listening closely.

“They will say, but look at all the good he’s done,” the prosecutor continued, referring to Sandusky’s Second Mile charity for disadvantaged youth. “Is that supposed to be some dispensation” to molest, he asked.

McGettigan used the phrase “predatory pedophile” several times in referring to the defendant and spoke of the phases a child molester goes through while cultivating a child. He then reminded jurors of what happened to each of the victims.

“The predatory pedophile thinks, I’ve done no wrong,” the attorney said, and pointing over at Sandusky he said in an incredulous tone, “He thinks these are relationships ... relationships that [others] wouldn’t understand. That’s what’s known as the denying pedophile.”

McGettigan defended Mike McQueary, saying, “Can you imagine the sheer shock he felt? He’s not perfect and may deserve some criticism,” McGettigan continued, “but he stepped up, took the oath, and told you what he saw.”

He saved any mention of the testimony of Mrs. Sandusky for the end.

“The one question that spoke volumes ... do you remember what it was?” he asked the jury, standing not three feet away from the jury box. “I asked her, Why would all these people lie? Remember her answer? ‘I don’t know,’” he said, quoting Dottie Sandusky. “I could have said, ‘You know. You know they’re not lying.’”

At the end of the closing arguments, the jury was sent out to begin deliberations, but the attorneys lingered. Both sides accepted congratulations from their respective camps, and then people began to disperse. McGettigan and his team lingered with the four young accusers. Moms hugged prosecution investigators, and McGettigan playfully hugged alleged victim No.9 and ruffled his hair. After shaking hands all around, he turned to the 18-year-old whose statements to police sparked the Sandusky investigation so many years ago. The boy with the haunted eyes shook hands with the prosecutor. Then they shared a nice long hug.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/21/jerry-sandusky-trial-day-eight-use-your-common-sense.html

Atlanta Dan
06-22-2012, 10:04 AM
What an awful story that just keeps getting worse

Given the statement of the adopted son yesterday that he had been molested, it makes me wonder if Ms. Sandusky was as clueless as she claims to be

As was posted earlier, someone needs to take Jerry Sandusky in the death pool - he will either kill himself or be taken out in prison

Vis
06-22-2012, 01:37 PM
What an awful story that just keeps getting worse

Given the statement of the adopted son yesterday that he had been molested, it makes me wonder if Ms. Sandusky was as clueless as she claims to be



She's a Republican

Vis
06-22-2012, 01:42 PM
Will new charges be brought for abusing his son?

Atlanta Dan
06-22-2012, 02:19 PM
Will new charges be brought for abusing his son?

Could be - but the son apparently denied being abused in prior grand jury testimony and Sandusky presumably will get enough time for conviction on the current charges to go away forever, so why bother?

Vis
06-22-2012, 02:24 PM
Could be - but the son apparently denied being abused in prior grand jury testimony and Sandusky presumably will get enough time for conviction on the current charges to go away forever, so why bother?


I guess it depends on the results in this one. Remember in the Dead Zone, the mother knew. Mrs. Sandusky reminds me of her.

Vis
06-22-2012, 10:39 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-06-22/sandusky-verdict/55768640/1

Guilty

Bayz101
06-22-2012, 11:16 PM
Is this the part where I act surprised?

Lady Steel
06-22-2012, 11:33 PM
Justice has been served. He will die in a state prison either of old age or at the hands of inmates because child molesters are the lowest of the low. Sandusky should be afraid. Very afraid.

Bayz101
06-22-2012, 11:36 PM
Justice has been served. He will die in a state prison either of old age or at the hands of inmates because child molesters are the lowest of the low. Sandusky should be afraid. Very afraid.

Considering his age, and the fact that he's facing spending the remainder of his life behind bars, I wouldn't be surprised if he killed himself with the first chance he gets, if he gets the chance.

Lady Steel
06-22-2012, 11:41 PM
That very well could happen, too, Bayz. I'm sure he will be placed into protective custody immediately, but that won't last forever.

MasterOfPuppets
06-23-2012, 12:52 AM
Considering his age, and the fact that he's facing spending the remainder of his life behind bars, I wouldn't be surprised if he killed himself with the first chance he gets, if he gets the chance.
lets hope so...
take the TV's out of prison cells and install a noose and a stool in every cell.......:thumbsup:

IowaSteeler927
06-23-2012, 04:24 AM
That wasn't a dodge Hicks. It was disrespect. 2200+ posts say that I'll cross swords with anybody, on any subject.

Mr Wallace here readily grasps the simple point I was making, and expands on it very nicely. My point is simply that history is repeating itself.



Bulls eye.



Exactly. IMHO, we're about 5-10 years out.



Vincent's initial post was unambiguously "Where is the line between the homosexual rape of a child and them merely being a "couple"?" The responses hovered around consent.

If Jerry's Kids had consented, would there have been the furor?

As this society moves toward acceptance of pedophilia and the Sanduskys of the world are freer to operate, more will be drawn in. It's self-proliferating (http://forums.steelersfever.com/showpost.php?p=1016129&postcount=21).

Its interesting that this Sandusky affair was cloistered within academia, isn't it? There are some that fear that this isn't even the tip of the iceberg. Can you imagine the furor if its breadth were known? I can see why academia would want to push that envelop a little.

There is no such thing as consent with children and there shouldn't be. Children are innocent, and we as human beings have evolved enough that we should understand this simple truth. Children should be able to live out their childhood in an appropriate fashion and should be allowed to grow and flourish without disgusting adults trying to have sex with them. I do believe that history repeats itself in some respects but I don't believe that it will be repeating itself in this manner.

Humans will always war, humans will always disagree, everyone has their own opinion, everyone has their own ideals, but nobody should be able to enter into a relationship with a child. Jerry Sandusky is a digusting human being, and I hope that he enjoys his prison stay although I feel that the punishment for his lascivious acts doesn't fit the crime.

Atlanta Dan
06-23-2012, 08:46 AM
Is this the part where I act surprised?

aBTpjkPiVyg

Atlanta Dan
06-23-2012, 05:56 PM
Its interesting that this Sandusky affair was cloistered within academia, isn't it? There are some that fear that this isn't even the tip of the iceberg. Can you imagine the furor if its breadth were known? I can see why academia would want to push that envelop a little.

It was cloistered within the Penn State football program, not the English department - with regard to big time college sports having anything to do with academics, that ship sailed some time ago

What sure looks like a conspiracy took place at Penn State for at least the past 15 years, and it will repeat itself. It is occurring right now in different ways at institutions across the country. It is the conspiracy of power, and now it is up to us to decide whether once and for all to crush the runaway culture of the coach, the outsized elevation of mortal institutions, and to demand accountability and responsibility. If these institutions are so important, so worthy and vital, they do not need to be protected by their followers from themselves or from the truth. Penn State and Joe Paterno should have been protecting their community, not the other way around.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8087426/jerry-sandusky-crimes-failure-stop-hang-penn-state

Vincent - since this may just be the tip of the iceberg, how many top 25 football programs do you estimate are shielding serial pedophiles within their ranks?:noidea:

Supe
06-23-2012, 06:30 PM
anyone who thinks/believes pedophilia can or will be legalized is greatly discounting the collective intelligence of the entire adult population on the planet. As Atlanta Dan said above, children can not give consent. While the age of consent varies from state to state, it should never dip below the teens. In fact, it should not be below 18, when the majority of the country considers a person to be legally liable for their actions.

MasterOfPuppets
06-23-2012, 06:36 PM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m61vwwyUzb1qaxmyeo1_500.jpg

MasterOfPuppets
06-23-2012, 06:47 PM
looks like pedophilia is legal in mexico....

http://s15.postimage.org/uix8oi4d7/image.jpg
http://s18.postimage.org/jy1pv0qk9/image.jpg

Bayz101
06-23-2012, 07:34 PM
The fact that there's a color for 12 and even worse, puberty, makes me want to nuke some countries.

MasterOfPuppets
06-23-2012, 09:01 PM
Jerry Sandusky on Suicide Watch, Undergoing Evaluations

http://news.yahoo.com/jerry-sandusky-suicide-watch-undergoing-evaluations-185635924--abc-news-topstories.html




:doh: my idea of suicide watch for these scumbags is an internet webcam and a noose in the cell .... vegas could give odds on when he'll hang himself...:thumbsup:

Bayz101
06-23-2012, 09:28 PM
"Don't give him any bedsheets. You'll find him hanging if you do, i'll about guarantee it".

http://www.steelersxtreme.com/t2660-jerry-sandusky-guilty-on-45-of-48-counts

Posted that yesterday. I seen it coming from a mile away. If he's not watched closely, he'll kill himself.

I want him to suffer in prison, and not in special care either. A low-profile pedophile wouldn't be put in special care, he'd go straight to GP.

MasterOfPuppets
06-24-2012, 09:32 PM
"Don't give him any bedsheets. You'll find him hanging if you do, i'll about guarantee it".

http://www.steelersxtreme.com/t2660-jerry-sandusky-guilty-on-45-of-48-counts

Posted that yesterday. I seen it coming from a mile away. If he's not watched closely, he'll kill himself.

I want him to suffer in prison, and not in special care either. A low-profile pedophile wouldn't be put in special care, he'd go straight to GP.
if i thought he'd get traded for jello everyday and abused like a goat in the middle east and get shanked every couple weeks, i'd be all for it. but i doubt he'll ever be put in gen pop. he most likely will never get a cell mate. if he does it'll be another sick old pedo. all he'll do till its time for the long dirt nap is cost tax payers money.

At $32,000. A Year Per Inmate, PA Auditor Calls For Alternatives

http://rouletterebel.com/wp/at-32000-a-year-per-inmate-pa-auditor-calls-for-alternatives

Vis
06-25-2012, 06:00 AM
if i thought he'd get traded for jello everyday and abused like a goat in the middle east and get shanked every couple weeks, i'd be all for it. but i doubt he'll ever be put in gen pop. he most likely will never get a cell mate. if he does it'll be another sick old pedo. all he'll do till its time for the long dirt nap is cost tax payers money.

At $32,000. A Year Per Inmate, PA Auditor Calls For Alternatives

http://rouletterebel.com/wp/at-32000-a-year-per-inmate-pa-auditor-calls-for-alternatives

Let everyone out who's in there for possession of pot.

Vis
06-25-2012, 09:04 AM
Fellow Inmates Reportedly Sang “Hey, Teacher, Leave Those Kids Alone” To Jerry Sandusky

Following guilty verdicts on 45 of 48 counts, Jerry Sandusky was shipped off to Centre County Correctional Facility, the same facility he was initially held in December. According to a fellow inmate at the time, known only as Josh, Sandusky was on the receiving end of some a cappella ridiculing.

Other prisoners were barred from communicating directly with Sandusky, but they could see him. And when the lights went out, inmates serenaded the disgraced coach with a famous line from Pink Floyd's "The Wall."

"At night, we were singing ‘Hey, teacher, leave those kids alone,' " Josh said, adding that everyone knew who Sandusky was because inmates had access to television and newspapers.


http://deadspin.com/5920864/fellow-inmates-reportedly-sang-hey-teacher-leave-those-kids-alone-to-jerry-sandusky

Bayz101
06-25-2012, 02:13 PM
That's funny shit.

MasterOfPuppets
06-25-2012, 03:28 PM
Let everyone out who's in there for possession of pot.
25% of NJ Prison Inmates are Nonviolent Drug Offenders

http://johnsaddiction.com/4216-25-of-nj-prison-inmates-are-nonviolent-drug-offenders/

Twenty five per cent of the prison inmates are non-violent drug offenders. That is a big number. The costs of keeping an inmate in prison are considerable — $44 thousand per year in New Jersey. And according to Levy, 50 per cent of those will re-offend and return to prison.

In 2009, New York adopted legislation that decreased its nonviolent prison population by 13 percent. The state saved more than $250 million by diverting nonviolent offenders to alternative sentencing, drug treatment and mental health programs.

Atlanta Dan
07-12-2012, 09:42 AM
The report by former FBI Director Louis Freeh on the Sandusky scandal is out

The most senior officials at Penn State University failed for more than a decade to take any steps to protect the children victimized by Jerry Sandusky, the longtime lieutenant to head football coach Joe Paterno, according to an independent investigation of the sexual abuse scandal that rocked the university last fall.

“Our most saddening and sobering finding is the total disregard for the safety and welfare of Sandusky’s child victims,” said Louis J. Freeh, the former federal judge and director of the F.B.I. who oversaw the investigation. “The most powerful men at Penn State failed to take any steps for 14 years to protect the children who Sandusky victimized.” ...

One new and central finding of the Freeh investigation is that Paterno knew as far back as 1998 that there were concerns Sandusky might be behaving inappropriately with children. It was then that the campus police investigated a claim by a mother that her son had been molested by Sandusky in a shower at Penn State.

Paterno, through his family, insisted after Sandusky’s arrest that he never knew anything about the 1998 case. But Freeh’s report asserts that Paterno not only knew of the investigation, but followed it closely. Local prosecutors ultimately decided not to charge Sandusky, and Paterno did nothing.

Paterno failed to take any action, the investigation found, “even though Sandusky had been a key member of his coaching staff for almost 30 years and had an office just steps away from Mr. Paterno’s.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/13/sports/ncaafootball/13pennstate.html?hp

Joe Pa's knowledge of these crimes in 1998 makes sense - Sandusky suddenly "retired" as defensive coordinator in 1999 and withdrew his name from consideration as HC at Virginia after having been told by Paterno he would never be the HC at Penn State.

Link to the full report here

http://thefreehreportonpsu.com/

I can now see Penn State getting clobbered for this by the NCAA since the motive to cover this up apparently included the Penn State HC's interest in shielding his program. That falls under lack of institutional control over the program.

This is the initial response to the Freeh report by the NCAA

NCAA statement on Penn State
Statement by Bob Williams, Vice President of Communications

“Like everyone else, we are reviewing the final report for the first time today. As President Emmert wrote in his November 17th letter to Penn State President Rodney Erickson and reiterated this week, the university has four key questions, concerning compliance with institutional control and ethics policies, to which it now needs to respond. Penn State’s response to the letter will inform our next steps, including whether or not to take further action. We expect Penn State’s continued cooperation in our examination of these issues.”

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/resources/latest%20news/2012/june/ncaa%20statement%20on%20penn%20state

Vincent
07-30-2012, 03:45 PM
I was unaware that "academia" was attempting to move back the age of consent to promote the "gay agenda" but you never know

You can always count on the unions to be "progressive".

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443437504577547313612049308.html?m od=wsj_share_tweet
Teachers Unions Go to Bat for Sexual Predators
The system to review misconduct is rigged so even abusive teachers can stay on the job.

By CAMPBELL BROWN

By resisting almost any change aimed at improving our public schools, teachers unions have become a ripe target for reformers across the ideological spectrum. Even Hollywood, famously sympathetic to organized labor, has turned on unions with the documentary "Waiting for 'Superman'" (2010) and a feature film, "Won't Back Down," to be released later this year. But perhaps most damaging to the unions' credibility is their position on sexual misconduct involving teachers and students in New York schools, which is even causing union members to begin to lose faith.

In the last five years in New York City, 97 tenured teachers or school employees have been charged by the Department of Education with sexual misconduct. Among the charges substantiated by the city's special commissioner of investigation—that is, found to have sufficient merit that an arbitrator's full examination was justified—in the 2011-12 school year:

• An assistant principal at a Brooklyn high school made explicit sexual remarks to three different girls, including asking one of them if she would perform oral sex on him.

• A teacher in Queens had a sexual relationship with a 13-year old girl and sent her inappropriate messages through email and Facebook.

If this kind of behavior were happening in any adult workplace in America, there would be zero tolerance. Yet our public school children are defenseless.

Here's why. Under current New York law, an accusation is first vetted by an independent investigator. (In New York City, that's the special commissioner of investigation; elsewhere in the state, it can be an independent law firm or the local school superintendent.) Then the case goes before an employment arbitrator. The local teachers union and school district together choose the arbitrators, who in turn are paid up to $1,400 per day. And therein lies the problem.

For many arbitrators, their livelihood depends on pleasing the unions (whether the United Federation of Teachers in New York City, or other local unions). And the unions—believing that they are helping the cause of teachers by being weak on sexual predators—prefer suspensions and fines, and not dismissal, for teachers charged with inappropriate sexual conduct. The effects of this policy are mounting.

One example: An arbitrator in 2007 found that teacher Alexis Grullon had victimized young girls with repeated hugging, "incidental though not accidental contact with one student's breast" and "sexually suggestive remarks." The teacher had denied all these charges. In the end the arbitrator found him "unrepentant," yet punished him with only a six-month suspension.

Another example from 2007: Teacher William Scharbach was found to have inappropriately touched and held young boys. "Respondent's actions at best give the appearance of impropriety and at worst suggest pedophilia," wrote the arbitrator—before giving the teacher only a reprimand. The teacher didn't deny the touching but denied that it was inappropriate.

Then there was teacher Steven Ostrin, who in 2010 was found to have asked a young girl to give him a striptease, harassed students by text, and engaged in sexual banter. The arbitrator in his case concluded that since the teacher hadn't actually solicited sex from students, the charges—all of which the teacher denied—warranted only a suspension.

Michael Loeb, a middle school teacher in the Bronx and UFT member, calls this a "horrible situation," telling me "if you keep these people in the classroom, you are demeaning our profession."

Parents I spoke with described their tremendous fear about what is happening in the classroom. Maria Elena Rivera says her 14-year-old daughter was stalked by one of her Brooklyn high school teachers (who resigned from his position before the Department of Education decided whether to send the case to arbitration). Today her daughter is in counseling, says Ms. Rivera, and doesn't trust anyone: "It so messed her up. I can't protect her."

Local media have begun to get the word out, yet the stories come and go with trifling consequences or accountability. New York City's schools chancellor and districts statewide must have the power to fire sexual predators—and the final say cannot be that of an arbitrator with incentives to lessen the punishment.

Fortunately, state Sen. Stephen Saland has proposed legislation in Albany to do just this, removing arbitrators' final say while still giving teachers due process and the opportunity to appeal terminations in court. But the buck would stop with those officials in charge of our schools and tasked with protecting our kids: the chancellor in New York City, and school districts elsewhere in the state.

Mr. Saland's initiative has little chance of success without union support—which is hardly assured. "I don't understand how they think this could be a gray area," says Natalie Harrington, who teaches English at New Day Academy in the Bronx. "I worry that if the union goes to bat [against] this, it makes it seem like they will do anything to keep anyone in the classroom."

Michael Loeb still supports his union but says it "treats teachers like interchangeable widgets"—defending all teachers no matter what they have done.

The union has reached a moment of truth. With responsible legislation on the table, the right course of action is obvious. At stake is the safety of kids, the reputation of the unions, and the standing of every good and responsible teacher throughout the state.

Ms. Brown, a former news reporter and anchor at CNN and NBC, recently testified on this issue before the New York governor's Education Reform Commission.

Vis
10-09-2012, 03:42 PM
Sandusky's sentence: 30 to 60 years in prison
October 9, 2012 12:20 pm
By Paula Reed Ward / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Less than a day after Jerry Sandusky gave a statement in which he continued to proclaim his innocence and blame others for his conviction on 45 child sex abuse charges, the former Penn State University assistant football coach was sentenced to between 30 and 60 years in prison.

"That has the unmistakable effect of saying you will spend the rest of your life in prison," Senior Judge John M. Cleland said.

Sandusky will remain at the Centre County Correctional Facility for 10 days before being transported to state prison.

PG VIDEO

His attorney, Joe Amendola, has said his client would like to be placed in a general population.

Sandusky spoke for 15 minutes, repeating much of a statement released Monday on a Penn State student radio station.

"Others can take my life and make me out as a monster," Sandusky said. "They can't take away my heart. In my heart I know I did not do these alleged, disgusting acts."

He questioned how his conviction occurred and said often that he continues to have hope and that the truth will eventually come out.

"We're starting the fourth quarter now," he said.

He became emotional only when talking about his family standing by him, and how unbearable his life would become if that were to stop.

"You find out who's committed, who will stand by you," Sandusky said.

Three of Sandusky's victims read statements, and Mr. McGettigan read one from another and from the mother of one more.

The prosecution did not make any request for a specific sentence.

"He will complain there wasn't time enough to prove his innocence," Senior Deputy Attorney General Joe McGettigan said. "There's not time enough in the world for him to prove that lie."

Sandusky was the only one to speak on his behalf. He called no witnesses, although a number of letters in support had previously been submitted to Judge Cleland.

Penn State president Rodney Erickson issued a statement via email after the sentencing.

"Our thoughts today, as they have been for the last year, go out to the victims of Jerry Sandusky's abuse," Mr Erickson said in the statement. "While today's sentence cannot erase what has happened, hopefully it will provide comfort to those affected by these horrible events and help them continue down the road to recovery."

Gov. Tom Corbett, who as attorney general supervised the early stages of the investigation, released his own statement this afternoon.

"These cases are difficult in the best of circumstances," Mr. Corbett said in his statement. "It is to the credit of these investigators, along with the resilience of the victims, resulting in an airtight case, the conviction of 45 crimes -- and now, today's sentence."

Investigators and prosecutors weren't the only people the governor mentioned.

"I want to especially commend the victims in the case, who had the courage to come forward and testify in open court, in spite of tremendous pressure and national publicity," Mr. Corbett said in hiss statement.

In Sandusky's radio statement Monday, the former coach continued to declare his innocence and blamed his conviction on a vast conspiracy.

"A young man who is dramatic and a veteran accuser and always sought attention started everything," he said in the statement. "He was joined by a well-orchestrated effort of the media, investigators, the system, Penn State, psychologists, civil attorneys and other accusers. They won. I've wondered what they really won. Attention, financial gain, prestige will all be temporary."

Even having said that, this morning Sandusky admitted fond thoughts for his accusers.

"These are people I cared about and still do," he said.

Mr. McGettigan called the radio statement "an insult."

"It is an insult to human decency," he said. "The defendant was and is the most insidious of criminals."

Courtroom No. 1 was largely packed by 8:30.

Sandusky's wife, Dottie, entered the room at 8:49 a.m. followed eight minutes later by the victims and their families.

Sandusky entered with his defense team a 8:58, wearing a red jail jumpsuit stamped with "Centre County" on the back. He appeared to be much thinner than during his trial.

A jury found Sandusky guilty on all but three of 48 counts in June following a two-week trial before Judge Cleland.

The most serious among them were involuntary deviate sexual intercourse, indecent assault and endangering the welfare of children.

Prosecutors with the Pennsylvania attorney general's office accused Sandusky of abusing 10 boys across 15 years, sometimes in Penn State facilities.

His conviction included counts related to all 10.

In the months leading up to trial, Mr. McGettigan called Sandusky's charity for youth, Second Mile, "a victim factory."

In the months since being found guilty, Sandusky has remained in the Centre County Correctional Facility in segregation.

Sandusky said he spends his time in jail reading, meditating, writing and exercising.

While the Sandusky criminal case has concluded -- although he has said he will appeal -- prosecutors are now gearing up to try two former Penn State administrators for perjury, accusing them of lying to a grand jury about their knowledge of the accusations against Sandusky.

Athletic director Tim Curley and retired senior vice president for finance Gary Schultz are scheduled for trial Jan. 7 in Harrisburg.

cubanstogie
10-09-2012, 07:57 PM
they should give him one bullet and save tax payers some cash. I expect him to hang himself within a year.