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tanda10506
06-15-2012, 02:14 AM
Found this article on NBC via Yahoo, but I watched the "interview" on NFL Network. To my surprise the NFL Network crew was actually giving the Steelers some respect, even Sapp a few times.

Ben Roethlisberger: I don’t know how to avoid taking hits

Posted by Michael David Smith on June 13, 2012, 6:18 PM EDT

AP
Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger says that for anyone who wants him to change the way he plays to avoid taking hits and stay healthier, he has some bad news: He doesn’t know how.

Roethlisberger spoke to reporters in the Steelers’ locker room today and said that the key to staying healthy is to avoid getting hit. But the only way he knows how to play the quarterback position is the way he’s always played it, and sometimes contact is part of that.

“I don’t think there’s this big revelation, like I need to do this or I need to do that,” Roethlisberger said. “It’s, ‘Don’t take hits.’ But I don’t know how to do that.”

Of course, it could be on the Steelers’ coaches — specifically new offensive coordinator Todd Haley — to teach Roethlisberger how. But Roethlisberger said that all the coaches can do is change the Steelers’ protections, because he has no intention of changing the way he plays.

“I’m not going to change my game,” Roethlisberger said. “Coach can do what he wants to add protection and do things like that, but I’m going to play the game the way I know how. It’s worked OK for me so far.”

It’s easy to see why Roethlisberger would think he doesn’t need to change: He’s been awfully successful the way he is. But three months after he turned 30 years old, it may be time for him to think about how he can keep playing well for years to come, by finding a way to take fewer hits.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/13/ben-roethlisberger-i-dont-know-how-to-avoid-taking-hits/

I have never thought his "style of play" was to blame because his "style of play" is avoiding a sack due to our poor O line play and O play calling. I don't think he needs to try and find a way to change his game, the additions to the O line and proper play calling will change it enough on their own. I also could see why he wouldn't want to change much due to his success as the article mentions. That said, (and you can look through all 1200+ posts of mine and you will be lucky to find 2 that are negative about Ben), he had ANOTHER ridiculous answer. To say "the coach can do what he's going to do but I'm not changing" will be interpreted by many as "the coach can f*ck off because I know how to win". Everybody has talked about Haley getting in players faces and I have been saying since day 1 that with as much as Ben has accomplished Haley doesn't need to be "getting in his face" since he has never won anything. But you don't go off saying things to the media about it that sound disrespectful. Also, this is the second time he has admitted to not knowing how to do something, first he said he would just now have to start learning where protections are coming from, and now about not getting hit. He just makes himself sound stupid. To be clear, I don't think Ben is stupid, it makes him SOUND stupid IMO. I love Ben but he just doesn't seem to get how to deal with the press, he either reads a proper speech off of a paper or he freelances it and sounds like a dumb ass.

TRH
06-15-2012, 09:19 AM
I completely see where he's coming from as far as "he don't know how to avoid taking hits"...thats the way he's played for years.
At this point, its not a matter of him learning how to avoid hits.....its the new system (and new lineman) helping him avoid hits unnecessarily.

Wallace108
06-15-2012, 10:34 AM
That said, (and you can look through all 1200+ posts of mine and you will be lucky to find 2 that are negative about Ben), he had ANOTHER ridiculous answer. To say "the coach can do what he's going to do but I'm not changing" will be interpreted by many as "the coach can f*ck off because I know how to win". Everybody has talked about Haley getting in players faces and I have been saying since day 1 that with as much as Ben has accomplished Haley doesn't need to be "getting in his face" since he has never won anything. But you don't go off saying things to the media about it that sound disrespectful. Also, this is the second time he has admitted to not knowing how to do something, first he said he would just now have to start learning where protections are coming from, and now about not getting hit. He just makes himself sound stupid. To be clear, I don't think Ben is stupid, it makes him SOUND stupid IMO. I love Ben but he just doesn't seem to get how to deal with the press, he either reads a proper speech off of a paper or he freelances it and sounds like a dumb ass.

And if the comment was disrespectful to anyone, it's Rooney. He's the one who said Ben needs to "tweak" his game.

Tanda, your response to Ben's comment is similar to what a few of us have been arguing in the "get over it" thread. Ben's latest comment isn't just an isolated remark. It's yet another in a growing list of jabs and defiant comments. I won't rehash that argument here ... we've done enough of that in the the other thread.

Regarding Ben's comment, I don't understand why he's so resistant to change. He obviously loves his image of the big, tough quarterback usually playing on one leg and willing his team to victory. And most fans love that image as well. But that style of play quite possibly cost us the division title and a first-round bye last season. Regardless of the O-line protection, Ben has a tendency to hold onto the ball too long. There's nothing wrong with learning to make quick reads and getting rid of the ball. Ben and fans (myself included) love his tough-guy image, but it's not all about Ben. It's about the team. And what's best for the team is for Ben to avoid hits and stay healthy. He can be a hero without playing with injuries that would sideline most other quarterbacks.

TRH
06-15-2012, 01:17 PM
And if the comment was disrespectful to anyone, it's Rooney. He's the one who said Ben needs to "tweak" his game.

Tanda, your response to Ben's comment is similar to what a few of us have been arguing in the "get over it" thread. Ben's latest comment isn't just an isolated remark. It's yet another in a growing list of jabs and defiant comments. I won't rehash that argument here ... we've done enough of that in the the other thread.

Regarding Ben's comment, I don't understand why he's so resistant to change. He obviously loves his image of the big, tough quarterback usually playing on one leg and willing his team to victory. And most fans love that image as well. But that style of play quite possibly cost us the division title and a first-round bye last season. Regardless of the O-line protection, Ben has a tendency to hold onto the ball too long. There's nothing wrong with learning to make quick reads and getting rid of the ball. Ben and fans (myself included) love his tough-guy image, but it's not all about Ben. It's about the team. And what's best for the team is for Ben to avoid hits and stay healthy. He can be a hero without playing with injuries that would sideline most other quarterbacks.

He's not being "resistant to change". He just said its his style....the new offense will take care of as much of it that it can and the rest will work itself out. And apparently he's taking to the new playbook faster than expected.
Stopped reading into things so much and super-overanalyzing so much.

Riddle_Of_Steel
06-15-2012, 01:38 PM
I still think the Ben vs Haley thing is being way over-analyzed. It is a dull offseason, so the press is looking to scare up a story at any costs.

Ricco Suavez
06-15-2012, 01:42 PM
Ben plays with passion and purpose. In the heat of the game he is going to revert to "his" style. It has been quite evident since his college days this is his way to play, if Rooney is not happen with two Superbowls using this style then they should not of drafted him.

Now if Haley can put him at ease in a new set where he is able to get rid of the ball quicker and utilize some more of his weapons, i.e. RB and TEs then he can avoid some contact that has been on him in past years, but like I said if pressure is coming he will fall back into his way of play, it is only natural.

I do not understand why Ben is vilified for playing the game the way he always has yet James Harrison is taken an entirely different way in his approach to tackling. The fines and penalties come James way yet he refuses to change and play the way he has always played. I happen to find very little wrong with James approach and I also find little wrong with Ben, and if Haley tries to completely change him then we have lost a big advantage with Ben as a QB.

Wallace108
06-15-2012, 02:28 PM
He's not being "resistant to change".
Huh? Direct quote from Ben:

ďIím not going to change my game.Coach can do what he wants to add protection and do things like that, but Iím going to play the game the way I know how. Itís worked OK for me so far.Ē

That's not being resistant to change?

Stopped reading into things so much and super-overanalyzing so much.
What am I "super-overanalyzing"? Rooney said that Ben needs to "tweak" his game, and Ben said he isn't going to do it. That's not MY analysis. Those are comments made by Rooney and Ben. :noidea:

Ben plays with passion and purpose. In the heat of the game he is going to revert to "his" style. It has been quite evident since his college days this is his way to play, if Rooney is not happen with two Superbowls using this style then they should not of drafted him.
Ricco, I agree with you that even if Ben did try to change, there's a good chance he'd revert back to his old style in the course of a game. We saw that with Tebow last season. He worked on his throwing motion, and it was much improved ... until he got into games and reverted back to his old style. Change is difficult, but it isn't impossible.

I do not understand why Ben is vilified for playing the game the way he always has yet James Harrison is taken an entirely different way in his approach to tackling. The fines and penalties come James way yet he refuses to change and play the way he has always played. I happen to find very little wrong with James approach and I also find little wrong with Ben, and if Haley tries to completely change him then we have lost a big advantage with Ben as a QB.
I don't think anyone, including myself, is vilifying Ben for playing the way he does. I like Ben and hope he is our QB for years to come. But his style of play is going to shorten his career. That's why Rooney wants him to "tweak" his style of play ... not because he isn't happy with the results, but because he isn't happy with all the punishment he takes.

I don't buy the argument that Ben can be effective only when he's scrambling around and making something out of nothing. He's a damn good QB, and he can be just as effective, if not MORE effective, if he learns to get rid of the ball quicker. And fewer hits means fewer chances of serious injury. No professional athlete, including Ben, should ever believe that they're so good that they don't need to improve their game.

Ricco Suavez
06-15-2012, 03:17 PM
I agree Bens career could be shorten if he continues to take hits, but is that not an NFL career in a nutshell. One hit, one injury and any players career is over. While I will hate to see it happen to any player, I would rather he keep playing the way he does. I know that my mindset was to play wide open. that is one reason I love to watch Ben play QB (even if he was not ours) , he plays with that instinct that he will do anything to make the play. Is he a smart QB, likely, is he one of the smartest, less likely. Is he a warrior on the field, yea without a doubt. Can Haley make him even better, likely so. Could Haley also in his zealous fashion do things that could make Ben less effective, yea he could. I just think all this chatter about whos pulling whos string is over the top, both Ben and Haley will have to compromise to make this work, if either one draws a line in the sand then this could be a disaster waiting to happen. I for one think it is going to be OK and both will work to a common goal. But to those who place all the blame on Bens inability to adapt to Haley, should be a little forthcoming in the concept that Haley should adapt some to his new QB.

tanda10506
06-15-2012, 03:51 PM
Tanda, your response to Ben's comment is similar to what a few of us have been arguing in the "get over it" thread. Ben's latest comment isn't just an isolated remark. It's yet another in a growing list of jabs and defiant comments. I won't rehash that argument here ... we've done enough of that in the the other thread.

I know, I've contributed a few posts to that thread too, but I've been arguing "in favor" of Ben, until now. Again, I don't want him to change his game it all, he will stop getting hit with this new O line and with an occasional FB or HB to pick up blitzes. Actually, since his "style" is running from a bunch of guys trying to smash him, and now those guys won't be able to chase him anymore, his style will change by default. Ben doesn't step out of good pockets so he will, by default, "change his game". But as we talked about in the other thread, that's not the point. The point is, however you feel about it, don't sound stupid or disrespectful to the media, better yet, stay away from the damn media!!!

StainlessStill
06-15-2012, 03:54 PM
Point blank, Ben's not going to change. Shame on anybody who literally thinks that in the heat of battle and when defenders are barreling down on him to think that he's literally going to stop, think and "avoid the hit." He's going to continue being Ben. He's Ben for a reason. I think he said it perfectly. It's Haley's job to call the formation and protection but when the time comes, there's no way to "avoid a hit" at full speed. There just isn't.

Steelersfan87
06-15-2012, 08:59 PM
Whenever a coach asks an elite athlete to alter his game, it almost always fails. It happens in baseball all the time. Look at Derek Jeter last year. He got off to a horrible start because he changed his swing. Then when he got injured, her reverted back to what he's been doing his entire career and he ended up hitting like .350 for the rest of the season and has continued that this season. Kevin Colbert just said today that there's basically nothing wrong with Ben not changing his game, by the way.

teegre
06-16-2012, 12:28 PM
They continually asked Earl Campbell to "change his style" (go put of bounds, avoid direct hits). But, Earl was Earl...and Earl was GREAT.

Honestly, his style shortened his career, but when Mean Joe Greene admits that he hated playing against you, you're doing something right.

Give me six amazing years of Earl Campbell...and 12* amazing years of BR.

*(BR retires after winning three SuperBowls in a row.)

Kingmagyar
06-16-2012, 12:39 PM
Ben has to walk that fine line this year of when to be the new improved Ben and the old keep a play alive Ben. If we are behind in a game and need a comeback then Ben needs to extend the play at all costs and risks to get a big play made. The entire 2008 season on the way to and including the super bowl was Ben playing his kind of ball. The last three years we've seen that style at times hurt the team when leads have been blown by costly intereptions trying to force a big play down the field. If the team gets a lead this year then they need to run the ball and dink and dunk a defense to death and boredom until they get set up for a big bomb down the field. Smart Logical football is all the team is really asking of Ben.

OX1947
06-16-2012, 03:25 PM
Not asking Ben to change his game, asking him to throw the ball away after 6 seconds instead of 12. He can still scramble, just limited the chances of mistakes. Ben getting injured cost us high seed. I believe if he was healthy in the SF game, we win the game.

Hawaii 5-0
06-19-2012, 02:18 AM
Ben Roethlisberger shrugs off hits, suggestions to change style

By Aditi Kinkhabwala NFL Network
June 18, 2012

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/catch_all/nfl_image/ben-roethlisberger-120618-wide.jpg

Steelers QB Ben Roethlisberger has been sacked 314 times in 114 career starts, an average of 2.75 per game.

PITTSBURGH -- In the NFL, quarterbacks have the million-dollar arms and the protect-at-all-costs bodies. So in practice, quarterbacks wear red jerseys, ones that scream, "Do not touch!"

Except at Pittsburgh Steelers practice. There, there are only white jerseys and black jerseys. And a quarterback who thinks he's a hockey player.

"I don't think we could ever have a -- I don't want to say prissy -- but I don't think we could ever have that style of quarterback here," safety Troy Polamalu said.

"Ben," safety Ryan Clark said, "is a real football player."

Ben, of course, is Ben Roethlisberger, the 6-foot-5, two-time Super Bowl-winning signal caller who, in the ninth year of his career, still doesn't understand the concept of saving his body.

Roethlisberger was a regular on the injury report last year. A shot to the knee, a sprained foot, a broken thumb, a high ankle sprain ... On it went, a badge of honor to his teammates -- "He's beat up like everybody else is beat up," Polamalu said -- but a (broken) bone of contention for Steelers president Art Rooney II.

Rooney suggested Roethlisberger "tweak" his game back in January, after a beat-up Roethlisberger wasn't at his best both at the end of the season and in an unpleasant, opening-round playoff loss in Denver. So the question this year becomes: Is a smarter, more productive Roethlisberger one who goes down, runs out of bounds and does all those things his mom begs him to?

"Oooh," receiver Jerricho Cotchery said.

"Um," tight end Heath Miller said.

Cotchery hemmed, Miller hawed. Cotchery called it a good question and then said he's glad he's not a coach. Miller chuckled and then said there are plenty of times he watches tape of his quarterback scrambling under, past and just plain over tacklers and says, "What was Ben thinking?"

And then both said they wouldn't want a more careful, less reckless Roethlisberger on their football field. Miller said Roethlisberger's toughness trickles through every part of the Steelers' roster. Cotchery said without the hell-bent crazy, Roethlisberger wouldn't be, well, Roethlisberger.

"I think the way Ben plays is what makes him special," Cotchery said. "You never want to take that away."

Most quarterbacks, if they get hit enough, see their numbers slide. Swarm them enough, bother them enough, their accuracy slips. Not Roethlisberger. He keeps coming, staying upright after hits that would pancake a lineman. The flip side? Does he really need to be taking hits that would pancake a lineman?

"It's just: Don't take hits," Roethlisberger said of his advice to himself. And then, "But I don't know how to do that."

"Of course you don't want him to get hurt," Clark said. "You take the good with the bad. That's like me telling Troy, 'Hey Troy, I want you to do exactly what the book says every play.' You take away someone's greatness when you limit what they can do with their athletic ability or their God-given talent."

And yet, Clark acknowledged, "We need Ben on the field. We need a healthy Ben Roethlisberger to be a healthy Super Bowl contender."

Roethlisberger has been sacked fewer than 40 times in season exactly once in the past six years, in 2010, when he spent the first four games of the year suspended. He's been taken down more than any other quarterback in that span and conventional wisdom says a signal caller that rash with his body gets defensive players salivating. A guy who insists on extending plays extends time to get walloped, right?

"No," Ravens nose tackle Haloti Ngata said, shaking his head, smiling politely and yet all the while saying: Take that conventional wisdom under some other center.

"That's a hard quarterback to get down. When people actually hit Ben, he's moving in different ways," Ngata said.


Right, but all that moving around makes him extra vulnerable. Sure, Eli Manning looks like a goober when he does his slide thing, but a defensive player can't (legally) hit him if he's down. And that caution means the Giants know he'll be there, the next series, the next quarter and the next week.

"Yeah, maybe, but that's the thing about Ben," Ngata said. "He's a big guy himself. For DBs, safeties, smaller linebackers -- it probably hurts them more than it hurts him. ... If I was him, I wouldn't change anything."

And as far as Roethlisberger is saying now, he won't. In fact, he was almost defiant in promising, "I'm going to play the game the way I know how."

So yes, he can be en route to becoming a father later this year. Yes, he can be 30 and find aches don't ease as fast as they did at 20. Yes, his boss can offer a directive, masked as a suggestion. But change?

That's for the offensive line, refashioned with the Steelers' first- (David DeCastro) and second-round (Mike Adams) picks. That's for new offensive coordinator Todd Haley's playbook, which has new protections. That's for the running backs, who will chip more, and for the receivers, who have to be better about getting into their hot routes on time. What it's not for is Roethlisberger, who patiently answered my every question, never conceded that there may be power in prudence and ultimately said this:

"I don't think I'm prissy."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d829ed477/article/ben-roethlisberger-shrugs-off-hits-suggestions-to-change-style

tanda10506
06-22-2012, 02:41 AM
That's for the offensive line, refashioned with the Steelers' first- (David DeCastro) and second-round (Mike Adams) picks. That's for new offensive coordinator Todd Haley's playbook, which has new protections. That's for the running backs, who will chip more, and for the receivers, who have to be better about getting into their hot routes on time. What it's not for is Roethlisberger, who patiently answered my every question, never conceded that there may be power in prudence and ultimately said this:

"I don't think I'm prissy."

This^. Ben's "style" is just running from defenders that have blown by the offensive line. If the offensive line plays well and Haley has the right protections in place Ben's "style" will change by default. Ben doesn't leave good pockets, look how he stayed in the pocket and picked apart Tennessee and New England, so if the pocket is good his game will change on it's own. If all goes well, the O line plays well, the protections are correct, and the running game is effective, Ben will get very little pressure. The blitz won't be brought often when the quick pass and toss sweep are a threat, and when they do bring it I am confident in our O line to pick it up most every time. I can't wait for this season to start!!!:tt::tt04::tt02::tt03:

Steelersfan87
06-22-2012, 03:21 AM
This^. Ben's "style" is just running from defenders that have blown by the offensive line. If the offensive line plays well and Haley has the right protections in place Ben's "style" will change by default. Ben doesn't leave good pockets, look how he stayed in the pocket and picked apart Tennessee and New England, so if the pocket is good his game will change on it's own. If all goes well, the O line plays well, the protections are correct, and the running game is effective, Ben will get very little pressure. The blitz won't be brought often when the quick pass and toss sweep are a threat, and when they do bring it I am confident in our O line to pick it up most every time. I can't wait for this season to start!!!:tt::tt04::tt02::tt03:

Well stated. What is perceived as his "style" is indeed largely a result of more than average pressure. Also, the Greg Cosell article posted the other day supports your assertion that Roethlisberger is not one to vacate a clean pocket for no reason:

One part of Roethlisbergerís improvement for which he does not get enough credit is his ability to make throws consistently from the pocket. It sounds strange to say that, because thatís the essence of NFL quarterbacking: delivering from the pocket. Yet the continued emphasis on his distinctive style has led many to disregard his pocket passing. I charted all 60 of Roethlisbergerís pass plays of 20 yards or more in 2011. Only five of them came outside the pocket. Time and again, Roethlisberger exhibited one of the most essential attributes necessary to play at a consistently high level: the ability to stand in the pocket in the face of pressure and deliver the ball with accuracy. Thatís an element of his play that often gets overlooked. It shouldnít.

Fire Arians
06-22-2012, 04:03 AM
This^. Ben's "style" is just running from defenders that have blown by the offensive line. If the offensive line plays well and Haley has the right protections in place Ben's "style" will change by default. Ben doesn't leave good pockets, look how he stayed in the pocket and picked apart Tennessee and New England, so if the pocket is good his game will change on it's own. If all goes well, the O line plays well, the protections are correct, and the running game is effective, Ben will get very little pressure. The blitz won't be brought often when the quick pass and toss sweep are a threat, and when they do bring it I am confident in our O line to pick it up most every time. I can't wait for this season to start!!!:tt::tt04::tt02::tt03:

agree. he's proved he can surgically pick apart defenses when he doesn't have defenders in his face 1-2 seconds after he snaps the ball. adams and decastro will be huge additions

California-Steel
06-22-2012, 03:54 PM
Ben is dumb. If you can't read between the lines then maybe you are too. What Ben has said and is saying is that he can't read defenses and he does not understand protections. He needs 5 or more seconds to do what other good QB's can do in 2-3 seconds. It's like a smart kid doing a math problem really fast and a dumb kids needing to count on his fingers.

Ben is big, strong, and athletic, but he is not smart. The best athletes are not the best QB's. There have been many great athletes that played QB and almost all of them don't have rings or are even in the league long. But the smart ones last a long time and make bad teams look good.

Ben has rings yes but he had great teams as well. Ben plays best when the Steelers run the ball well, has a ton of time in the pocket, and when the D is ranked in the top 5.

Again not a smart QB but a very big and athletic QB.

To say I don't know how to not take hits even sounds stupid. Any smart QB understands that means read the coverage, see the protection, understand what the play is and get the ball to the best read as fast as possible. If not then get rid of the ball by throwing it away. Not Dhuuu...I don't know how. That just sounds caveman-ish.

pancake
06-22-2012, 09:06 PM
A better running game will help and quicker throws. I don't mind Ben's game, he is a play maker...

Fire Arians
06-22-2012, 10:02 PM
Ben is dumb. If you can't read between the lines then maybe you are too. What Ben has said and is saying is that he can't read defenses and he does not understand protections. He needs 5 or more seconds to do what other good QB's can do in 2-3 seconds. It's like a smart kid doing a math problem really fast and a dumb kids needing to count on his fingers.

Ben is big, strong, and athletic, but he is not smart. The best athletes are not the best QB's. There have been many great athletes that played QB and almost all of them don't have rings or are even in the league long. But the smart ones last a long time and make bad teams look good.

Ben has rings yes but he had great teams as well. Ben plays best when the Steelers run the ball well, has a ton of time in the pocket, and when the D is ranked in the top 5.

Again not a smart QB but a very big and athletic QB.

To say I don't know how to not take hits even sounds stupid. Any smart QB understands that means read the coverage, see the protection, understand what the play is and get the ball to the best read as fast as possible. If not then get rid of the ball by throwing it away. Not Dhuuu...I don't know how. That just sounds caveman-ish.

Tom Brady holds the ball forever too, but he doesn't have defenders in his face right when the ball is snapped

MasterOfPuppets
06-23-2012, 01:49 AM
Ben is dumb. If you can't read between the lines then maybe you are too. What Ben has said and is saying is that he can't read defenses and he does not understand protections. He needs 5 or more seconds to do what other good QB's can do in 2-3 seconds. It's like a smart kid doing a math problem really fast and a dumb kids needing to count on his fingers.

Ben is big, strong, and athletic, but he is not smart. The best athletes are not the best QB's. There have been many great athletes that played QB and almost all of them don't have rings or are even in the league long. But the smart ones last a long time and make bad teams look good.

Ben has rings yes but he had great teams as well. Ben plays best when the Steelers run the ball well, has a ton of time in the pocket, and when the D is ranked in the top 5.

Again not a smart QB but a very big and athletic QB.

To say I don't know how to not take hits even sounds stupid. Any smart QB understands that means read the coverage, see the protection, understand what the play is and get the ball to the best read as fast as possible. If not then get rid of the ball by throwing it away. Not Dhuuu...I don't know how. That just sounds caveman-ish.
:jerkit:
yep he's too dumb...
did you by any chance watch the steeler / patriot game 2011 ?
remember how the media morons kept repeating the same stupid phrase over and over ? ..."ben out bradyed the brady"
incase you missed the game , i'll translate... ben and the offense ran brady and the pats dink and dunk offense to PERFECTION.
on the other side of the ball the steelers defense took away brady's dink and dunk game.
could it be that maybe the douchebag calling the plays might have had something to do with it ? calling plays that have the receivers running 20-40 yd routes take a bit more time to develop than the 5-15 yard routes those "smart" qb's have called.

Steelersfan87
06-23-2012, 03:10 AM
Pittsburgh passers threw a total of just 65 stretch vertical passes (those thrown 20-plus yards downfield), a total that ranked 18th in the NFL. If the additions of DeCastro and Adams can shore up the pass blocking, Ben Roethlisberger should be able to improve his stretch vertical attempts (passes thrown 20 or more yards downfield) total to the 80-90 range. If the Steelers gain 15 yards per attempt on those aerials, it would equal between 1,200-1,350 stretch vertical passing yards, a big leap from last year's 787 yards on deeper throws.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/50034/browns-steelers-offenses-should-improve

Ricco Suavez
06-23-2012, 08:57 AM
[QUOTE=Dodens Grav;1016995]http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/50034/browns-steelers-offenses-should-improve[/Quote

This figure shows passes actually attempted, not plays that were called and then scraped because of a line break down resulting in a sack. But even so these figures show that Arians offense was not as deep ball happy as some would lead you to believe. With threats like Wallace and Brown the deep ball should be in play often to "open" up the underneath plays, of course some will say you establish the run to "open" up the passing game. It is the never ending question, which comes first?

wera176
06-23-2012, 11:10 AM
Ben is dumb. If you can't read between the lines then maybe you are too. What Ben has said and is saying is that he can't read defenses and he does not understand protections. He needs 5 or more seconds to do what other good QB's can do in 2-3 seconds. It's like a smart kid doing a math problem really fast and a dumb kids needing to count on his fingers.

Ben is big, strong, and athletic, but he is not smart. The best athletes are not the best QB's. There have been many great athletes that played QB and almost all of them don't have rings or are even in the league long. But the smart ones last a long time and make bad teams look good.

Ben has rings yes but he had great teams as well. Ben plays best when the Steelers run the ball well, has a ton of time in the pocket, and when the D is ranked in the top 5.

Again not a smart QB but a very big and athletic QB.

To say I don't know how to not take hits even sounds stupid. Any smart QB understands that means read the coverage, see the protection, understand what the play is and get the ball to the best read as fast as possible. If not then get rid of the ball by throwing it away. Not Dhuuu...I don't know how. That just sounds caveman-ish.

You watching the same games the rest of us are? Ben can't throw in 2-3 seconds to receivers that haven't completed their routes yet. BA rarely called quick-hit routes. Ben has pretty damn decent numbers considering how poor his OL has been the last few years, and the OC inability to call a game worth a crap.

Brady writes a novel in the pocket with the protection he has. Peyton is pretty good at throwing the quick throw, but he can't run so he has to! :sofunny:

MasterOfPuppets
06-23-2012, 08:18 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/50034/browns-steelers-offenses-should-improve
as ricco pointed out , the stat only shows the passes that were actually thrown...
here's a look at how what cali steel labeled a "smart qb" distributes his passes...
2011
%.........................0-10 yds...........15-20 yds.................20 yds+
tom brady..............70.9....................21.7... .......................7.4

http://www.patspulpit.com/2012/2/15/2798883/new-england-patriots-links-2-15-12

Since 2007, Wes Welker has 554 receptions in the regular season. But only 11 of those receptions have been caught on passes thrown 20+ yards in the air, such as this pass was. Thatís only 1.99% of his receptions. One of those passes was by Matt Cassel in 2008, leaving just 10 career connections between Brady and Welker on passes over 20 yards down the field in the regular season.

In seven playoff games together, Welker doesnít have a reception longer than 19 yards no matter where the pass was thrown to.

Why would anyone expect Welker to make a play like that 100 times when heís never done it anywhere close to 100 times in his career? Heís the underneath slot machine. All the bread and butter plays between Welker and Brady are on short routes (under 8 yards). Itís not a surprise they would be out of sync on a pass and catch they practically never make together.

as i pointed out before , ben can play the role of the "smart qb" when the dipshit OC has a "smart" game plan...

Playing efficiently and working almost exclusively on short, safe, underneath routes, Roethlisberger completed 36 of 50 passes for 365 yards and two touchdowns as the Steelers won their fourth straight following a 2-2 start.

"We can be as good as we want to be," Roethlisberger said. "When we don't kill ourselves and stop ourselves, we can be pretty dangerous."

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/gameflash/2011/10/30/4489_recap.html#ixzz1yfKMdivA

Roethlisberger has built a career and won two Super Bowls by chucking it deep with abandon. On Sunday he didn't complete a pass over 26 yards. He didn't have to.

Roethlisberger consistently found Antonio Brown (a career-high nine receptions), Heath Miller (a season-high seven grabs) and speedster Mike Wallace (seven catches) on short and intermediate routes.

The West Coast-style approach worked perfectly.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/gameflash/2011/10/30/4489_recap.html#ixzz1yfKeXd8l

Fire Haley
06-24-2012, 05:01 PM
Ben Roethlisberger: I don’t know how to avoid taking hits

actual headline

Ben Roethlisberger: I can't avoid taking hits because my O-line has been dogshit for years, but I can't say that

Bayz101
06-24-2012, 05:23 PM
Ben Roethlisberger: I donít know how to avoid taking hits

actual headline

Ben Roethlisberger: I can't avoid taking hits because my O-line has been dogshit for years, but I can't say that

+1.

tanda10506
06-24-2012, 05:48 PM
Ben Roethlisberger: I donít know how to avoid taking hits

actual headline

Ben Roethlisberger: I can't avoid taking hits because my O-line has been dogshit for years, but I can't say that

Exactly^


Ben plays best when the Steelers run the ball well

We haven't ran the ball well in a while but he's been playing pretty good:noidea:

has a ton of time in the pocket

That's when every QB plays his best

and when the D is ranked in the top 5.

Of course the team is more successful with a higher ranked defense, but that doesn't really directly affect Ben's play. Yes the situations he's put in may be better with a good defense, but when it comes down to making plays that doesn't really have anything to do with it.

Ben has shown that he can pick apart defense's just as good as Brady when that's the game plan and the O line plays at least somewhat decent, he did it to Brady's team after all. He's not stupid he just doesn't understand how to properly handle the media. He says things that make him look stupid and sometimes disrespectful. Saying that he didn't know how to avoid the hits sounds stupid, but in reality it's not because the hits are due to a bad O line. It's a little uncomforting to hear him say he is going to have to "learn where the protections are". Although he should know where the protections are, it's likely that Arians offense did not require that, thus no time was spent practicing it. Sounds like a lame excuse but that's how lame Arians offense was. DeCastro, Adams, and a healthy Colon will be huge additions to the O line this year and if the starting 5 stay healthy Ben may be one of the least sacked QB's in the league this year. He also might be the most efficient QB this year. He won't have a 5,000 yard season because we will be running the ball more often, but with our targets, proper play calling, and some time to throw, I can see him having the highest completion percentage in the NFL.

Ricco Suavez
06-24-2012, 05:59 PM
Defense has and will always be the cornerstone of any championship quality team in Pittsburgh. Now while last years defense was remarkable in nearly every way they were near the bottom in creating turnovers. You do not create turnovers you do not get short field situations. While the defense excelled in scoring and total yardage defense they also allowed the other team to at least punt often yet that results in longer fields for your offense. I believe our offense rated last in the league in average starting field position, this cannot happen this year. Our defense needs to create some turnovers, our offense needs to eliminate about a third of our own turnovers and in turn we should score more.

Sean95m
06-25-2012, 04:17 AM
The thing to think about is Ben got "his style of play" from lack of a line! He hasn't had a good O Line since he was young and learning the system. Now that it is finally getting some love the sacks should go down.

wera176
06-25-2012, 12:46 PM
The thing to think about is Ben got "his style of play" from lack of a line! He hasn't had a good O Line since he was young and learning the system. Now that it is finally getting some love the sacks should go down.

Ben played like that in college too though. My wife is a Miami Alumni and we live near Oxford, so I spent a number of Saturdays watching him. One game against Marshall, in a crazy wind stands out: some LB or DL came leeping in at him, he just kinda calmly tossed the guy to the side and launched a strike... I called my dad after that game telling him the Steelers needed to draft this Roethlisberger kid. My dad was like a "Rothless-what?" :sofunny:

Anyhow, I agree with you about the sacks going down and that he won't vacate a good pocket, but it's always been in his nature to try to make a play when it gets all wooly and stuff... And I love that about him...:thumbsup:

Hawaii 5-0
06-25-2012, 11:25 PM
NFL's 10 Biggest Jerks: Wideouts rule, but plenty of nasty to go around

By Mike Freeman | National NFL Insider
June 24, 2012

Nos. 10-9: (tie) San Francisco 49ers coach Jim Harbaugh and Detroit Lions coach Jim Schwartz: This is a tough one. Went to high school with Schwartz. Love him. Excellent coach, but his overreaction to a hard handshake from Harbaugh is a classic jerk reaction from a guy with a serious sideline temper.

Harbaugh is arrogant and just as sideline-angered as Schwartz, and his story about how the 49ers didn't really pursue Peyton Manning is actually hilarious. That's like saying you look at Rihanna and appreciate her eyes.

No. 8: Chicago Bears quarterback Jay Cutler: If ever there was a jerk face prototype, it would be Cutler. Plays the part well with the best smirk in the NFL. His defenders say he's not so jerkish -- that his reactions are more because he despises the media. Yes, jerks are always misunderstood. I actually believe Cutler is maturing and one day will break free of his jerk chains, but for the moment, there's this NSFW moment.

No. 7: New York Jets defensive back Antonio Cromartie: Now has an amazing 12 kids: four from his wife and eight others with seven different women. Let that marinate and we will move on. (But first: that's a starting offense with a backup quarterback.)

There is a not-so-funny message here. It is impossible for a man to be a good father to his children in this kind of situation unless Cromartie has cloned himself. Thus the repercussions of jerkdom aren't just about football. They can be far more reaching.

No. 6: Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver DeSean Jackson: Benched in fourth quarter of a game last year. Benched for missing team meeting. Celebrates before scoring. More than once. Mad talented, crazy fast, super smart and a jerk.

This will be an interesting situation to watch. The Eagles just rewarded Jackson with a long-term deal. Historically, jerks don't handle this kind of thing well. Jerks are to fat contracts what a Kardashian is to ... oh, never mind. Jackson also is now the CEO of a rap label called Jaccpot Records. Nothing wrong with that. The problem, as always with a situation like this, is money. Someone has to fund this venture and it will probably be Jackson. Athletes funding their own business ventures never go wrong, right? And speaking of broke jerks.

No. 5: Chicago Bears wide receiver Brandon Marshall: You may notice this list is strong at wide receiver. Jerk has apparently spread to the position and locked on like a Borg tractor beam. In some ways Marshall exemplifies this phenomenon. Multiple accusations of woman beating but no convictions. One of the most talented wide receivers in football who was run out of Denver, run out of Miami and, if his jerk chromosomes kick in again (and they will), he'll be gone from Chicago in the near future, too.

No. 4: Special Brett Favre dispensation for Terrell Owens: T.O. checks in here, which is technically a violation of the jerk charter since Owens, you know, isn't currently in the NFL. He's been booted from the NFL, IFL, USFL, CFL, AFL, the AFL-CIO. UFOs and IPOs don't want him either. Owens is a lifetime jerk award winner, future Hall of Famer (should be at least) who was nasty, petulant and turbulent. His jerkiness is so pervasive that despite having some ability remaining no one will touch him. People fear catching jerk cooties. Love me some jerk.

No. 3: New Orleans Saints: A collective award. And who knows if they even did what they're accused of doing. If they're guilty, they belong in this spot. If they're innocent, then this is where Ndamukong Suh , leg stomper, dirty player, shall go. So ordered.

No. 2: Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger: Two sexual assault allegations (no convictions) but a four-game suspension for violation of the NFL's personal conduct policy. A well-earned jerk ranking.

No. 1: Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Michael Vick: This question was put to Twitter: does Vick deserve to be forgiven for what were atrocities against defenseless animals? Hundreds of responses came in and it was overwhelming there are still a great many people who haven't forgiven Vick for actions of his own making.

But that is the question: When is Vick allowed to move on? When is that threshold from criminal to forgiven criminal crossed? To some, it already has. But to many, like me, though it's clear that Vick has changed, the crime was so disgraceful, more time is still needed to make sure the change I've seen in him is not an act but permanent. There's almost a simple formula here to follow. The worse the crime, the more time it takes for the re-evaluation.

This is an arrogant approach for me and others, particularly since everyone judging Vick has made their own errors. But there are mistakes and then there are mistakes. For Vick, it will still take more time.

A few honorable mentions: James Harrison, Randy Moss, Donte Stallworth (pled guilty to DUI manslaughter), Ray Lewis, O.J. Simpson (eternal nominee, Mount Jerkmore candidate), and no jerk list would be complete without Pacman Jones.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/19415365/nfls-10-biggest-jerks-wideouts-rule-but-plenty-of-nasty-to-go-around

Bayz101
06-25-2012, 11:37 PM
Are people getting paid to write this shit? Cromartie may have a lot of kids, but is he really a jerk? Vick and Ben both made stupid, young mistakes, but I can name people who should be WAY ahead of them both on this list. If anything this list should be renamed Top Ten Screw-Up's...

Where the hell is Cortland Finnegan? That guy's the biggest arrogant idiot in the game?? I think a lot of the players in his honorable mentions should have been in the main list.

Steel95
06-27-2012, 11:14 PM
I'm really beginning to dislike this idiot; after your boss brings you in and talks to you after you requested to speak with him; after he informs you that you need to tweak your game; and most of all, going public with a stupid comment like that? Sounds to me he's just plain arrogant. I wouldn't be suprise to see this guy end up getting hurt, seriously hurt. The guy is hard headed! A hard head always brings about a soft A$$. If the Steelers don't go deep in the playoffs this year, it will be because of number 7 refusing to buy into the new system.

Steel95
06-27-2012, 11:16 PM
Are people getting paid to write this shit? Cromartie may have a lot of kids, but is he really a jerk? Vick and Ben both made stupid, young mistakes, but I can name people who should be WAY ahead of them both on this list. If anything this list should be renamed Top Ten Screw-Up's...

Where the hell is Cortland Finnegan? That guy's the biggest arrogant idiot in the game?? I think a lot of the players in his honorable mentions should have been in the main list.

I could care less about any of those idiots! Lets stick with the Black N Gold!

teegre
06-28-2012, 08:45 AM
Why is James Harrison even mentioned!?! He just plays tough. Are they going to say the same thing about Mean Joe Greene, Jack Lambert, Deacon Jones, Earl Campbell, Greg Lloyd, Lester Hayes...and all of the other "tough" players??? So dumb.

wera176
06-28-2012, 12:15 PM
Why is James Harrison even mentioned!?! He just plays tough. Are they going to say the same thing about Mean Joe Greene, Jack Lambert, Deacon Jones, Earl Campbell, Greg Lloyd, Lester Hayes...and all of the other "tough" players??? So dumb.

Well, he did smack his baby-momma once. :noidea:

teegre
06-28-2012, 04:41 PM
Well, he did smack his baby-momma once. :noidea:

Oh yeah...

Regardless, if that was the criterion being used, then, alas, 99% of the NFL players would be guilty. [It is truly shocking, the number of domestic violence cases (reported & unreported) in the NFL.]