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Buddha Bus
07-25-2012, 05:45 PM
Wallace a no-show; Steelers suspend negotiations
July 25, 2012 5:31 pm
By Ed Bouchette / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Mike Wallace took another stand when he did not report to training camp on time, and now apparently the Steelers will take one of their own as the contract impasse between the two sides takes a new turn.

The Steelers will suspend negotiations on a multiple-year contract until Wallace signs his one-year tender and reports to the team, a club source said. As a restricted free agent, Wallace was offered a one-year contract worth $2.472 million last March but he remains the only RFA in the NFL who has not signed.

Wallace, who made the Pro Bowl in his third season last year, cannot practice until he is under contract, either by signing the one-year tender or by signing another contract offered by the team that has now been basically rescinded.

The stance of ending negotiations for a holdout has been taken by the team before, most recently when Hines Ward held out for the first two weeks of the 2005 training camp. However, Ward had one year left on his contract at the time and was pressing for a new one. After ending his holdout, negotiations resumed and he received a four-year extension three weeks later.


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/wallace-a-no-show-steelers-suspend-negotiations-646152/#ixzz21fn7vCTz

__________________________________________________ _____________


Aw hell...... :doh:

MACH1
07-25-2012, 05:47 PM
Just when I was getting my hopes up. :banging:

pancake
07-25-2012, 05:53 PM
Just when I was getting my hopes up. :banging:

I look for Wallace to sign his one year tender next week and get in camp.

Buddha Bus
07-25-2012, 06:00 PM
I look for Wallace to sign his one year tender next week and get in camp.

I hope you're right, but why make things even more difficult? Both sides need to cut out the dick wagging and get a deal done already.


EDIT: Yes, I know it's not just that easy, but dammit, I'm sick of the drama already! :chuckle:

tanda10506
07-25-2012, 06:23 PM
It was starting to sound like a deal was getting close, now that Wallace took the low road I wouldn't be surprised if this situation just turns into a total pain in the ass like DeShean Jackson's did last year. Wallace is a great deep threat, but we've been playing without a deep threat like that for a LONG TIME. If he want's to screw around and hold out I say we look to trade him. Wallace's deep threat ability is unlike many others, nearly nobody is that fast, but we've won championships without that deep threat before.

Steelersfan87
07-25-2012, 06:27 PM
Holding out a few days isn't really much of a big deal. We all knew this was a fairly likely possibility. Maybe he just wanted to confirm that the Steelers would cut off negotiations if he didn't show up. Now he knows. I suspect he'll be in camp by next week at some point.

ETL
07-25-2012, 06:36 PM
I don't want them to give a contract to Wallace paying him $8 mil a year. That's too much to have locked into a WR in our team. I would be happy with a $4-5 mil/yr contract ($6 at the most) and if that is what the Rooneys are offering - great.

If Wallace wants more, there is nothing we can do. It is his perogative to want more. I just don't want the Steelers to be the ones to give it to him.

I'm with the Rooneys on this. They have a long standing policy not to negotiate with holdouts and if they started doing it with Wallace - they will open a pandora's box that they will never be able to close again.


Top Paid WRs in 2011

1. Lary fitzgerald - $120 mil / 8 yrs (last yr salary : $21 mil)
2. Calvin Johnson - $55 million / 6 yrs (last yr: $12.6 mil)
3. Brandon Marshall - $47 mil / 5 years (last yr: $10.6 mil)
4. Andre Johnson - $62 mil / 7 yr ($8.8 mil)
5. Steve Smith - $43 mil / 6 yrs ($8.5 mil)
6. Miles Austin - $57 mil / 7 yrs ($8.5 mil)
7. Reggie Wayne - $40 mil / 6 yrs ($8.0 mil)
8. Roddy White - $48 mil / 6 yrs ($6.5 mil)
9. Greg Jennings - $27 mil / 4 yrs ($6.5 mil)
10. Anquan Boldin - $28 mil / 4 yrs (6.0 mil)

Justin Otstott
07-25-2012, 06:49 PM
I just reported the same thing...this is bad news :(

http://talkgridiron.com/2012/07/25/mike-wallace-steelers-might-suspend-talks/

teegre
07-25-2012, 06:57 PM
Holding out a few days isn't really much of a big deal. We all knew this was a fairly likely possibility. Maybe he just wanted to confirm that the Steelers would cut off negotiations if he didn't show up. Now he knows. I suspect he'll be in camp by next week at some point.

I wish that I shared your optimism, brother.

Did I miss something?  When did the Steelers state that they would cut off negotiations, if Wallace didn't report???  Then...BLAMO!!! they cut off negotiations.  What!?!  

While it is their right (& to a degree, expected), to me, it still seems like a "bully" move (that came out of nowhere).  

Because, now... I expect Wallace to play hardball, and not report until he gets a new contract.  

Why not just continue negotiations???... & have faith that a deal will get done soon.   I know, I know: the flip side is that Wallace could simply report & have faith that a deal will get done soon.  

I just don't like this.  Again, I know that the Steelers hold a few trump cards, and maybe they "had" to play one of them (to make a point)... but, I fear a huge stand-off.   

TRH
07-25-2012, 07:09 PM
i like how everybody before....said "ah, don't worry, he'll be there the first day when camp comes..".

Now, some are saying "ah, don't worry, he'll be here in a couple days". And i'm seeing "ah, he'll be here soon...". I'm not seeing ANYthing positive so far in this situation whatsoever... And i'm not seeing anything that would change one's mind otherwise.
He should have been here first day. No reason to think "he'll be here in a couple days". I'm glad the Steelers suspended negotiations. Good for the b*st**d. I hope they cut his pay like they are entitled to do (although i don't think they will unless this goes into games...).

The HInes Ward situation quoted in the article was different. Different in that Hines seems like a much more "stand-up" kind of guy and truly liked playing here and wanted to be here. He proved that right through the retirement. Wallace isn't that guy. To me, he could care less if he's here or somewhere else.

Steelers......move the team on.......and just worry about locking down a long-termer on Antonio Brown. Try to do it sooner than later...the more we wait on that one, the higher the price point will get.

Steelersfan87
07-25-2012, 07:11 PM
I don't want them to give a contract to Wallace paying him $8 mil a year. That's too much to have locked into a WR in our team. I would be happy with a $4-5 mil/yr contract ($6 at the most) and if that is what the Rooneys are offering - great.

If Wallace wants more, there is nothing we can do. It is his perogative to want more. I just don't want the Steelers to be the ones to give it to him.

I'm with the Rooneys on this. They have a long standing policy not to negotiate with holdouts and if they started doing it with Wallace - they will open a pandora's box that they will never be able to close again.


Top Paid WRs in 2011

1. Lary fitzgerald - $120 mil / 8 yrs (last yr salary : $21 mil)
2. Calvin Johnson - $55 million / 6 yrs (last yr: $12.6 mil)
3. Brandon Marshall - $47 mil / 5 years (last yr: $10.6 mil)
4. Andre Johnson - $62 mil / 7 yr ($8.8 mil)
5. Steve Smith - $43 mil / 6 yrs ($8.5 mil)
6. Miles Austin - $57 mil / 7 yrs ($8.5 mil)
7. Reggie Wayne - $40 mil / 6 yrs ($8.0 mil)
8. Roddy White - $48 mil / 6 yrs ($6.5 mil)
9. Greg Jennings - $27 mil / 4 yrs ($6.5 mil)
10. Anquan Boldin - $28 mil / 4 yrs (6.0 mil)

Who is "we"? The Steelers can afford to give Wallace a big contract, so I don't know what you're talking about. Also, here's a more thorough list of what receivers are worth in 2012:

$10M for a legitimate #1 receiver is becoming the norm today, and it increases every year.

Here are some contracts of note:

Calvin Johnson: $16.5M
Larry Fitzgerald: $15M
Vincent Jackson: $11.11M
Brandon Marshall: $10M
Steve Smith: $9.5M
Wes Welker: $9.5M
Dwayne Bowe: $9.5M
DeSean Jackson: $9.4M
Santonio Holmes: $9.05M
Miles Austin: $9M
Roddy White: $8
Anquan Boldin: $7M
Stevie Johnson: $7.25M

The majority of the top receivers on other teams are either 1) no really #1 receivers (Cleveland, Seattle, Minnesota, Miami, Washington), are too old for a big contract (Indianapolis, San Francisco), or haven't had their big contract yet (New York (Giants), Cincinnati, Denver, Green Bay, Tennessee). Others have had their worth diminished due to injuries. Also, many of these large contracts were signed a few years ago, and thus by this past offseason's standards are somewhat dated. For example, Greg Jennings signed a 4 year, $27M contract in 2009. If he was a free agent in 2012, he would have easily netted Vincent Jackson's contract or better. He is in a contract year this season, so he should have a big offseason in 2013.

Admittedly some of these numbers have changed since I originally posted this, but these were per year averages of their most recent contracts, including franchise tags.

TRH
07-25-2012, 07:12 PM
I wish that I shared your optimism, brother.


Because, now... I expect Wallace to play hardball, and not report until he gets a new contract.  

  


Good. Let him play hardball. And he can sit out the entire *#!&4 year. He's not the one who gets to play hardball here.
If he tries to play "hardball"...i guarantee you he ain't gettin' no contract in this city.

TheVet
07-25-2012, 07:23 PM
The business side of the NFL can get ugly, and it puts both players and teams in tough positions. But we do have a collective bargaining agreement that spells out the rules. For every Mike Wallace who plays way above his contract, there are quite a few Limas Sweeds who walk away with unearned money. That's just the way it is in the first few years, by agreement between players and owners.

Wallace has made his point. But now he's crossed a line, and his actions are negatively impacting the team. The longer it takes, the more damage will be done, and the more fan support he will lose.

For me personally, I'll be fine if Wallace shows up in the next few days. But after that, I can see myself moving over to the "who needs him?" camp. I'm not sure how fast that will happen, but this guy is being offered $2.7 million to play for a chance at $10 million yearly afterwards to play a game - and he's hurting our favorite team. He needs to get his butt to work in short order.

Steelersfan87
07-25-2012, 07:27 PM
i like how everybody before....said "ah, don't worry, he'll be there the first day when camp comes..".

Now, some are saying "ah, don't worry, he'll be here in a couple days". And i'm seeing "ah, he'll be here soon...". I'm not seeing ANYthing positive so far in this situation whatsoever... And i'm not seeing anything that would change one's mind otherwise.
He should have been here first day. No reason to think "he'll be here in a couple days". I'm glad the Steelers suspended negotiations. Good for the b*st**d. I hope they cut his pay like they are entitled to do (although i don't think they will unless this goes into games...).

The HInes Ward situation quoted in the article was different. Different in that Hines seems like a much more "stand-up" kind of guy and truly liked playing here and wanted to be here. He proved that right through the retirement. Wallace isn't that guy. To me, he could care less if he's here or somewhere else.

Steelers......move the team on.......and just worry about locking down a long-termer on Antonio Brown. Try to do it sooner than later...the more we wait on that one, the higher the price point will get.

I will never understand this type of reaction to athletes from sports fans. It's as if they don't realize sports are businesses an athletes are employees.

1) I don't think anybody said he'll be here the first day of camp. Pretty much everybody knew this was a likely possibility.

2) The Steelers' opportunity to reduce his tender has LONG since passed.

LVSteelersfan
07-25-2012, 07:27 PM
You can bet that his agent is the one pushing this. 9 times out of ten those rat bas***ds are just trying to line their own pockets because they also get a cut. Sorry Wallace, but you can go take a freakin hike for all I care. If he holds out too long he is still a RFA in the same boat next year.

Millers the sh!t
07-25-2012, 07:30 PM
**** Wallace, he ain't that great. I can live without seeing him on the field. No tears from me...

Bayz101
07-25-2012, 07:32 PM
It's a business, and don't act like we didn't know this possibility was there. Not only was it likely that Wallace would hold out, based on what's he's done already, it was damn near written in stone. That doesn't mean the Rooney's will like it, but that's not something we could really predict. It pisses me off that he's sitting out training camp, even if just for a few days, but he wants paid. What can you do?

Bayz101
07-25-2012, 07:38 PM
The Steelers will stop negotiations on a long-term deal until Wallace signs his $2.7 million restricted free-agent tender and reports to training camp, a team source told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

This is really the team's only resort to get Wallace to training camp. The Steelers can't fine him because he hasn't signed his tender and officially isn't under contract.

As the Post-Gazette points out, this is a tactic that the Steelers have used before. Pittsburgh halted contract talks with wide receiver Hines Ward in 2005 when he missed the first two weeks of camp.

Steelers president Art Rooney II declined comment on the situation Wednesday, and coach Mike Tomlin said he hasn't spoken to Wallace in about two weeks.

There's still reason to believe the sides will work out a deal before the regular season begins. It just seems now that Wallace will have to show up to get it.


http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/pos...medium=twitter

pete74
07-25-2012, 07:41 PM
wallace is worth 8million a year and i bet that is close to what he gets. everyone seems down but im willing to bet we have him signed within 1 week from today

Steelersfan87
07-25-2012, 07:47 PM
http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/07/mike-wallace-contracts-the-steelers-you/

Dave Bryan over at Steelers Depot, as always, does great work in breaking down contracts.

The TL;DR version of this article is basically that Bryan can see a realistic deal being in the 5 year, $40-50 million range with $20-25 guaranteed. It's really worth reading if you want to actually understand how contracts work though, and why guaranteed money, signing bonuses, roster bonuses, option bonuses, amortized money, etc., are just as, if not more, important than the mere per year breakdown of the full contract.

Atlanta Dan
07-25-2012, 07:57 PM
I will never understand this type of reaction to athletes from sports fans. It's as if they don't realize sports are businesses an athletes are employees.

1) I don't think anybody said he'll be here the first day of camp. Pretty much everybody knew this was a likely possibility.

2) The Steelers' opportunity to reduce his tender has LONG since passed.

I agree with TRH

Of course it's a business and athletes want to get paid

But two players can have similar salary expectations while one appears interested in preferring to stay put while the other one will go wherever the $$$ are higher

For example - Ward and Burress - I always thought Burress just wanted the $$$ and had no real identification with the Steelers. I was not surprised when he left and I get the same vibe with Wallace.

But life will go on with or without #17

"Obviously, we have a desire for him to be here," Steelers coach Mike Tomlin said. "We want him to be part of this thing, both short term and long term. We've been in negotiations with him. He's not here today. That's unfortunate for him."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8199991/source-pittsburgh-steelers-wide-receiver-mike-wallace-break-contract-talks

Indeed

Fire Haley
07-25-2012, 08:36 PM
I don't believe any of these rumors, but I'm fully conditioned to not seeing him in camp, I could smell this coming

as Tomlin would say, next man up, we go with who we have

Steelersfan87
07-25-2012, 08:50 PM
Wallace A Holdout (http://burgh.us/f5q)

Wallace’s oldest and best friend on the team, Keenan Lewis, thinks that time will come soon.

“He’s a football player. He loves playing the game,” said Lewis. “I’m pretty sure he doesn’t want to sit out. We worked all off-season. He’s in shape. He’s ready to go.”

Lewis said the two worked out “extremely hard” together back home in New Orleans every day during the off-season, and that Lewis filled

Wallace in on the new offense as best he could. Lewis said he’s been in daily contact with his friend since then.

“That’s my brother,” Lewis said. “He asked me questions about how the new system fit in, how he’s playing a role. I told him a couple things, a couple tips to make sure he’s ready to go.

“He just wants to be here. He’s anxious to get here. He’s ready to work. I think he’s in the best shape that he’s ever been in, as far as conditioning and running routes and stuff like that.”

stb_steeler
07-25-2012, 09:10 PM
I agree with TRH

Of course it's a business and athletes want to get paid

But two players can have similar salary expectations while one appears interested in preferring to stay put while the other one will go wherever the $$$ are higher

For example - Ward and Burress - I always thought Burress just wanted the $$$ and had no real identification with the Steelers. I was not surprised when he left and I get the same vibe with Wallace.

But life will go on with or without #17

"Obviously, we have a desire for him to be here," Steelers coach Mike Tomlin said. "We want him to be part of this thing, both short term and long term. We've been in negotiations with him. He's not here today. That's unfortunate for him."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8199991/source-pittsburgh-steelers-wide-receiver-mike-wallace-break-contract-talks

Indeed

QUESTION: Why would a guy hold out knowing he wasnt offered anything from other teams want to hold out?....He could possibly be shooting himself in the foot.

Bayz101
07-25-2012, 09:11 PM
QUESTION: Why would a guy hold out knowing he wasnt offered anything from other teams want to hold out?....He could possibly be shooting himself in the foot.

If the front office wants him bad enough, he's got them by the balls.

stb_steeler
07-25-2012, 09:14 PM
Yeah but it doesnt seem that way

Steelersfan87
07-25-2012, 09:23 PM
He's not missing much right now. They're just packing into dorm rooms and making the rookies do silly things.

Hawaii 5-0
07-25-2012, 09:25 PM
If the front office wants him bad enough, he's got them by the balls.


seems to me that the Steelers have all the leverage, if Wallace wants a long-term contract he will need to sign his RFA tender and report to camp or the Steelers FO won't negotiate with him.

and the Steelers won't waver, history has proven that...

stb_steeler
07-25-2012, 09:30 PM
seems to me that the Steelers have all the leverage, if Wallace wants a long-term contract he will need to sign his RFA tender and report to camp or the Steelers FO won't negotiate with him.

and the Steelers won't waver, history has proven that...

I agree, guess we'll have to wait n see how it pans out.

pancake
07-25-2012, 09:37 PM
95% of the players hate camp, so I could see him waiting till next week to sign the one year tender. I don't remember anyone giving Hines this much crap when he held out 2 weeks, its only been one day. lol

He will sign and steelers will work a long term deal. Even if they don't reach a deal, he will play his butt off to get one next year.

Atlanta Dan
07-25-2012, 09:39 PM
QUESTION: Why would a guy hold out knowing he wasnt offered anything from other teams want to hold out?....He could possibly be shooting himself in the foot.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different outcome - Wallace (with encouragement from his agent) has overestimated his value the entire offseason - why would he stop now?:noidea::chuckle:

Steelersfan87
07-25-2012, 09:41 PM
A line from Mark Kaboly's latest article that sums up what I also think is actually happening here:

http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/2012/07/25/wallace-cant-win/#.UBCBBh2EL24.twitter

It’s likely that Wallace will show up by the beginning of the week meaning that his mini-holdout was just to reinforce his displeasure.

stb_steeler
07-25-2012, 09:43 PM
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different outcome - Wallace (with encouragement from his agent) has overestimated his value the entire offseason - why would he stop now?:noidea::chuckle:

I think you said the magic dirty word Dan, Agent!......:toofunny:

teegre
07-25-2012, 10:07 PM
A line from Mark Kaboly's latest article that sums up what I also think is actually happening here:

http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/2012/07/25/wallace-cant-win/#.UBCBBh2EL24.twitter

Again, brother, I hope that you are right...because, I don't share your optimism.

I see Wallace digging in his heels...

I just don't understand why the Steelers felt the need to do this. They were in negotiations...why not just allow Wallace to miss the first few days, as the sides hash out a deal??? Now, it feels like a pi$$ing contest.

I hope that you're right...I hope that you're right...

ETL
07-25-2012, 10:27 PM
Who is "we"? The Steelers can afford to give Wallace a big contract, so I don't know what you're talking about. .

Well please FCKEN excuse me for using the word "we"

As for my point, I have no idea what you didn't understand. I don't want the Steelers to overpay for Wallace. If this was the MLB - I don't give a shite but there is a fcken salary cap in football. So that means that if you pay one guy a lot of money - you will have less to pay your other guys.

Is that concept too complex for you to understand.

ETL
07-25-2012, 10:31 PM
Then...BLAMO!!! they cut off negotiations.  What!?!  

While it is their right (& to a degree, expected), to me, it still seems like a "bully" move (that came out of nowhere).  
  

Dude, this is not new. The Steelers have always had a policy not to negotiate with holdouts if they already have a contract. I like the policy. The players may hate it but they respect it.

teegre
07-25-2012, 10:34 PM
Dude, this is not new. The Steelers have always had a policy not to negotiate with holdouts if they already have a contract. I like the policy. The players may hate it but they respect it.

I hear you... but, this didn't have the feel of a "hold out."

Rod Woodson held out.
Hines Ward held out.
And, I guess that Wallace is holding out... but, again, it feels very, very different**.

**(they were in the MIDDLE of negotiations).

Steelersfan87
07-25-2012, 10:50 PM
Well please FCKEN excuse me for using the word "we"

As for my point, I have no idea what you didn't understand. I don't want the Steelers to overpay for Wallace. If this was the MLB - I don't give a shite but there is a fcken salary cap in football. So that means that if you pay one guy a lot of money - you will have less to pay your other guys.

Is that concept too complex for you to understand.

Maybe I misread what you meant to say, but it sounded like you were saying that "we" (the Steelers) couldn't afford to pay Wallace more than $6 million a year. That's a patently wrong claim, which is why I said I didn't know what you're talking about. What you said is "if Wallace wants more, there's nothing we can do", so I hope you understand how I read into your statement what I just outlined.

I do hope you realize how archaic and antiquated a $5 million a year contract for a Pro Bowl wide receiver is in 2012, by the way.

Kingmagyar
07-26-2012, 12:10 AM
Each day of camp he misses his value to us this year decreases to the point where would he even be the starter week 1 if he reported that late?

One Scenario?

Wallace holds out most of camp and reports to get a deal done before the season, but since he is so behind learning the offense he has a lousy year and gets paid like 20 million up front to do so.

or

Wallace holds out most of camp signs his tender and plays for that amount and still has a lousy season because he doesn't know the offense.

or

How many times have we seen a big money signing followed by a season ending injury?

A lot more bad can happen then good in signing him this year to big money. Franchise him next year then work out a long term deal with him if you can. He won't want to hold out two summers in a row will he?

tanda10506
07-26-2012, 12:25 AM
Who is "we"? The Steelers can afford to give Wallace a big contract, so I don't know what you're talking about.

Maybe I misread what you meant to say, but it sounded like you were saying that "we" (the Steelers) couldn't afford to pay Wallace more than $6 million a year. That's a patently wrong claim, which is why I said I didn't know what you're talking about. What you said is "if Wallace wants more, there's nothing we can do", so I hope you understand how I read into your statement what I just outlined.

I do hope you realize how archaic and antiquated a $5 million a year contract for a Pro Bowl wide receiver is in 2012, by the way.

This ^ is why you piss everybody off. Nearly everyone on this forum uses "we" when referring to the Steelers and you know that's the case, yet you tried to be pompous and talk down like he doesn't know what he's talking about. Weather your wrong or right it's irritating as f***, and your usually wrong, by your own admittance in previous posts when you stated that you will argue for something that you don't even think is true if you think it has to many other people arguing against it. On top of that you use a condescending overtone while trying to explain why you didn't understand what he meant, when everyone else on this entire forum knows what he was talking about. Then, as if all the arrogance wasn't enough already, you top that off by using words that you don't think other people know to describe a simple thing like average pay while implying that he may be to stupid to already have checked up on WR contracts. And that's after you posted a chart of top payed WR's which would have already showed him that and actually contradicts your argument of the Steelers being able to sign Wallace to a big contract, because if the contract is big enough to be mentioned with that list, it's more then the Steelers can/will/should do. All I'm saying is take it easy on us, we already know you are all knowing and we are all stupid.:nw::nw:

Steelersfan87
07-26-2012, 01:15 AM
tanda, this is hardly the place for these absurd accusations. I responded to your post via private message, as it doesn't belong here.

Hawaii 5-0
07-26-2012, 02:08 AM
tanda, this is hardly the place for these absurd accusations. I responded to your post via private message, as it doesn't belong here.

maybe you should think about why you rub so many people the wrong way and stop being so damn condescending. you're not the only knowledgeable poster on this forum...

Steelersfan87
07-26-2012, 02:13 AM
If you'd like to start a thread in whichever forum is appropriate for it explaining the ways in which I'm condescending and an asshole, go right ahead. Otherwise, there's no reason to throw insults at me at every opportunity when you don't like something I say, in the process taking the discussion off-topic.

TheVet
07-26-2012, 02:37 AM
tanda only said what everyone is thinking. When I first joined, I thought you were following me around taking shots. But then I saw that you do the same thing to everyone, even arguing both sides of a question on different threads. It's a strange hobby you have.

Steelersfan87
07-26-2012, 02:52 AM
If you'd like to start a thread in whichever forum is appropriate for it explaining the ways in which I'm condescending and an asshole, go right ahead. Otherwise, there's no reason to throw insults at me at every opportunity when you don't like something I say, in the process taking the discussion off-topic.

Also, you may be surprised to find how many "supporters" I have on this forum who congratulate me for sticking up for myself when I'm subjected to attacks and accusations such as these.

With regard to the claim that I routinely argue both sides of a question, or argue things that I don't believe, I just explained this to tanda in a private message.

This is what I actually said. It comes from the first thread that I made about an article that I wrote for Examiner.com:


Here's the story, and I explained this before: sometimes on this forum I'm forced to defend people and ideas that I don't necessarily think are great because I feel they're being unfairly denigrated in some way. When I'm writing these articles, I'm writing exactly what I think without the bias of having to contextualize it within a debate relative to other people's positions.

I did not say that I argue things that I don't believe. I said that I am forced to defend people and ideas that I don't think are great. A perfect example just arose. I defended kicker Shaun Suisham because people were accusing him of being "below mediocre", despite his career field goal average with the Steelers being over 80%, which is far from below mediocre. Suisham is not a great kicker, and is therefore not a player that I would normally defend if the Steelers wanted to replace him, but because so many people think he's absolutely horrible and should be cut immediately despite not having a replacement for him, I decided to stick up for him and point out that he's better than he's being given credit for.

That is not arguing something I don't believe or taking two sides of the same question. It's the difference between saying "Shaun Suisham is not an ideal option at kicker for the Steelers, though he has been adequate over his one and a half years" (as I would write in an article) and "Shaun Suisham may not be great, but he's not as bad as you say" (as I would write here in response to somebody demanding he be cut immediately because he's terrible). If you feel the need to discuss this further, PM me.

pancake
07-26-2012, 03:41 AM
I am willing to bet that Wallace will be in camp next week.

Bayz101
07-26-2012, 03:44 AM
Okay, this topic is derailing quickly, and I can't rightly let it live on if the arguments continue . If you have any other questions or comments about the forum, please create a topic in the Feedback and Support forum, or send a moderator a message.

Also, put yourselves back in the kindergarten frame of mind for a second, if you will. If someone says something to you that you don't like, you tell a teacher, or in this case, report it to a moderator. This goes for ANYTHING, as ANY kind of abuse on this forum is unacceptable. If you have beef, report it to a moderator. Getting involved in arguments on the open board isn't going to help anything.

If you need anything, feel free to message me. But PLEASE, for the LOVE OF ALL THINGS HOLY. Get back on topic, and drop all the jib jab. Thank you.

Bayz101
07-26-2012, 03:47 AM
I am willing to bet that Wallace will be in camp next week.

And i'm willing to pray for that very outcome :sofunny:

ricardisimo
07-26-2012, 04:17 AM
There are three, four posters on these boards that need to tone it down. Period. You know who you are. I'm going to keep this friendly and informal as long as I can. Let's work it out on our own.

The regular season is coming up. You know we're going to beat Denver, so let's focus on that positive.

Bayz101
07-26-2012, 04:22 AM
There are three, four posters on these boards that need to tone it down. Period. You know who you are. I'm going to keep this friendly and informal as long as I can. Let's work it out on our own.

The regular season is coming up. You know we're going to beat Denver, so let's focus on that positive.

I sure hope you're right :tt03:

Rick5895
07-26-2012, 04:28 AM
I have said this before on "the Mike Wallace "thread. He needs to show the same good faith shown to him, sign the tender and report to camp. It is then my guess something gets done,. The Steelers showed him good faith by not reducing the tender June 15, like they could have. This tactic of Wallace's will not work.
I like Wallace, but make no mistake, probowl or not, he is NOT, IMO, a top flight reciever in the mold of Fitzgerald (which is the money his agent appears to think he deserves) Mikes numbers deteriorated over the 2nd half because of the double teams, to be paid as a top reciever he needs to be able to beat the double team.
If Wallace wants to be here he will sign his tender, if not then Steelers should offer him in trade out of conference for a 2nd or 3rd round pick.
I sincerely hope he's here for the long term, but not at the expense of the team. Just because other teams have paid big money or offerd franchise tags to recievers in the "2nd" tier (like Bowe) doesn't mean the Steelers will to Wallace.

Galax Steeler
07-26-2012, 05:13 AM
I like Wallace and hope he signs and gets into camp. I am not going to loose any sleep if he don't sign with the team don't get me wrong I would like to have him. We can't afford to over pay him and put ourselves in a bad situation down the road. I have faith in the receivers we have on the team and believe they will do a good job.

steelfury02
07-26-2012, 09:24 AM
if I was Wallace the only thing that should be rubbing me wrong is guys like Miles Austin getting paid that absurd amount

He is most DEF better than that guy

You're absolutely correct - the Steelers could have really hung him out to dry and reduce his pay and they didn't because essentially it was "You don't have to worry about that Mike, we'll make sure you at least get A - come on in and get things started and we'll work out the details together while you're here with your teammates . . ."

Meanwhile, back at Mike's place:

"Yeah Mikey, like I told Brett, just show up and make up your mind when you feel like it. You don't need to be doing anyone any favors but yourself, Xcough,cough and meX. Don't worry about it, no one showed interest in you but it'll be ok for you to keep paying me a percent for awful advice that will keep dragging this out . . ."

Steelerfreak58
07-26-2012, 12:10 PM
Would have been nice to have him but we really don't need to break the bank with the dude. The line up of receivers we have without him is still pretty damn potent. If he doesn't sign the tender and doesn't show up the rest of the year I am fine with that. Don't break the bank on this one guy.

Vis
07-26-2012, 02:48 PM
Mike Wallace contract offers pulled, Steelers GM says



The Pittsburgh Steelers aren't messing around with wide receiver Mike Wallace.

General manager Kevin Colbert confirmed Thursday the team will not progress with contract negotiations until Wallace signs his $2.7 million first-round tender and reports to training camp.

Additionally, the team has pulled any prior offers its made to Wallace.

"I think once we made that decision we're in a different mode and we would have to address any new negotiation if we get to that point," Colbert said, via Scout.com.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82ad400f/printable/mike-wallace-contract-offers-pulled-steelers-gm-says

The message is clear: You want a new deal? Get in the building. Only then does the conversation continue. Since Wallace isn't under contract, he can't be fined for missing time. And, unlike the case with players under the franchise tag, there's no deadline to negotiate a long-term pact.

The Steelers still have the right to slash Wallace's tender at this point, but it appears they've drawn the line there.

"We never planned on using the tender or reducing the tender as leverage," Colbert said. "I think that just shows what you think about the player and it gives you a launching point for a long-term deal. But again we weren't able to conclude that, so we move on."

Wallace led the Steelers with 72 catches for 1,193 yards and eight touchdowns last season, and is easily Ben Roethlisberger's most dynamic target. The Steelers need him, but they also run their business in a specific and unflinching way. This isn't a stalemate Wallace can win.

Steelersfan87
07-26-2012, 03:02 PM
"The Steelers still have the right to slash Wallace's tender at this point, but it appears they've drawn the line there."

I'm pretty sure this is not true. There was a cut-off date for that long ago, I believe June 15.

Also, it's amusing to me how outside media write about this situation with such surprise. "What? The Steelers are not bowing to the demands of their top receiver? ...Can they do that? I thought they were supposed to just give him money and shut up!"

steelfury02
07-26-2012, 03:09 PM
Mike, please do the following:

1. Sign your tender
2. Have some patience that your new deal will get done before or shortly after start of reg season
3. Fire your agent

finesward
07-26-2012, 03:17 PM
They need to handle the wallace situation the way they've handled others and that's "no comment on players who aren't at camp, but we'd be happy to talk about the players that are"

If wallace wants to carry on like vincent jackson then let him. Let some other perennial loser club pick him up for 11 mil a year.

teegre
07-26-2012, 03:19 PM
I'm pretty sure this is not true. There was a cut-off date for that long ago, I believe June 15.!"

Actually, I believe that you have it backwards. As of June 15th, the Steelers have right to reduce his tender to $550,000 (or so). The Steelers have never chosen to do so... for which I am thankful, because I think that it would really make Wallace dig in his heels... and both sides are so close to a new deal (no need to play that trump card).

But, it is at their disposal...

pete74
07-26-2012, 03:22 PM
They can no longer cut his salary. That time has come and gone

Steelersfan87
07-26-2012, 03:27 PM
They can no longer cut his salary. That time has come and gone

Right, I just looked it up:

Steelers receiver Mike Wallace, who reportedly won’t sign his $2.7 million restricted free agency tender until he has to, likely will have to in the next week or so.

If he doesn’t by June 15, the Steelers can replace his current offer with a tender in the amount of 110 percent of Wallace’s base salary in 2011. And since he received a base salary of $525,000 as a third-year pro in 2011, the Steelers will be able to retain his rights for all of 2012 for a mere $577,500.

The authority comes from Article 9, Section 2(f)(i) of the CBA. Though the reduction wouldn’t happen automatically, the Steelers would have the right to do it, if the Steelers so choose. And the window is open for only one day, so they can’t hold it over Wallace’s head in the hopes of getting him to sign a long-term deal.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/07/steelers-can-put-the-screws-to-mike-wallace-in-eight-days/

pancake
07-26-2012, 03:45 PM
He will be in next week, he is just coming in late to show his displeasure on his current status and to have a few less days in camp...

Vis
07-26-2012, 03:45 PM
Right, I just looked it up:



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/07/steelers-can-put-the-screws-to-mike-wallace-in-eight-days/


The actual language of the CBA isn't that clear.

Steelersfan87
07-26-2012, 04:08 PM
Possibly, but the interpretation of it seems to be pretty consistent. In fact this is the first I can recall seeing a source state that the cut-off date to reduce the tender offer goes beyond June 15.

If the player's Qualifying Offer is greater than 110% of the player's prior-year Paragraph 5 Salary (with all other terms of his prior year contract carried forward unchanged), the Club may withdraw the Qualifying Offer on June 15 and retain its rights under the preceding sentence, so long as the Club immediately ten­ders the player a one year Player Contract of at least 110% of his prior-year Paragraph 5 Salary (with all other terms of his prior year contract carried forward unchanged) (the "June 15 Tender").

I take the phrase "may withdraw the Qualifying Offer on June 15" to mean specifically on June 15, not simply beginning with June 15. I interpret the use of "immediately" to mean a very finite period of time in which the action can be taken, namely on June 15.

teegre
07-26-2012, 04:35 PM
I stand corrected.

Egad... so, that loop-hole only lasts for one day!?! That makes the teams/owners have very little leverage with the tenders. Odd... It seems that the window would be larger (e.g. June 15th until the start of training camp... or, something along those lines).

[At least now I do not have to worry about "that" trump card being played, and in turn, stalemating the negotiations even further.]

Wallace!!!report... and your deal WILL get done by next week. Please, do not sit around (a la VJ).

Hawaii 5-0
07-26-2012, 05:10 PM
I stand corrected.

Egad... so, that loop-hole only lasts for one day!?! That makes the teams/owners have very little leverage with the tenders. Odd... It seems that the window would be larger (e.g. June 15th until the start of training camp... or, something along those lines).




teams have UNTIL June 15th to reduce the tender, so there was plenty of time to do so. however, the Steelers are a classy organization and bargain in good faith and said all along they were not going to reduce Wallace's tender.

TheVet
07-26-2012, 05:28 PM
I just don't understand this approach by Wallace; it's hard to see how it helps him in any scenario. It would have been better to make his point by waiting until the last minute to sign, and then to sign and show up. This just creates bad feelings and bad faith all around, and it doesn't help Mike get to where he wants to be.

teegre
07-26-2012, 05:35 PM
the Steelers are a classy organization and bargain in good faith and said all along they were not going to reduce Wallace's tender.

Which is why I find this recent act (breaking off negotiations) so puzzling. They were in the middle of negotiations... so close to a deal... and then this. I get it...but I don't (make sense?).

TheVet
07-26-2012, 05:55 PM
teegre, it's because Wallace's latest move was an act of bad faith. The Steelers didn't reduce the tender as they could have, and the natural expectation would be for Wallace to sign it and continue the negotiations in good faith. If both parties want a long-term contract, they need to cooperate in good faith.

teegre
07-26-2012, 06:03 PM
teegre, it's because Wallace's latest move was an act of bad faith. The Steelers didn't reduce the tender as they could have, and the natural expectation would be for Wallace to sign it and continue the negotiations in good faith. If both parties want a long-term contract, they need to cooperate in good faith.

Until this very second, I was very confused. Now, I get it.

I was irritated at the Steelers... but, as you stated: it was in fact Wallace who made the first "move" (not showing up to camp). Pittsburgh responded by breaking off negotiations. I had not though about it that way... at all... I was merely "faulting" the Steelers, but I had somehow overlooked Wallace's initial act of "defiance."

Steelersfan87
07-26-2012, 06:05 PM
Ed Bouchette writes that it's Wallace instructing his agent, not the other way around. The sooner he shows up the better for him. Everyone knows it but him apparently, unless he's just sitting out the first few days to further cement his displeasure.

Bayz101
07-26-2012, 06:23 PM
Ed Bouchette writes that it's Wallace instructing his agent, not the other way around. The sooner he shows up the better for him. Everyone knows it but him apparently, unless he's just sitting out the first few days to further cement his displeasure.

We all know he's butthurt, and now he's got Rooney butthurt by the sounds of it all.

http://moonwalkerwiz.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/butt-hurt.jpg?w=371&h=279

pancake
07-26-2012, 08:46 PM
I just don't understand this approach by Wallace; it's hard to see how it helps him in any scenario. It would have been better to make his point by waiting until the last minute to sign, and then to sign and show up. This just creates bad feelings and bad faith all around, and it doesn't help Mike get to where he wants to be.

Those bad feelings will be a distant memory the first time he blows the top of a defense. I have total confidence this will be just a small speed bump in Wallace's career with the Steelers...

El-Gonzo Jackson
07-26-2012, 08:50 PM
Only guys that I really regret the Steelers letting go in the modern era were Rod Woodson and Mike Vrabel. If they let wallace go next season, no big deal................one WR is not bigger than the team.

I hope they can get a long term deal done, but meh...........he's just a WR.

ricardisimo
07-26-2012, 09:24 PM
Only guys that I really regret the Steelers letting go in the modern era were Rod Woodson and Mike Vrabel. If they let wallace go next season, no big deal................one WR is not bigger than the team.

I hope they can get a long term deal done, but meh...........he's just a WR.
Agreed. When you look at a list of highest-paid receivers, it seems the higher up the list you go, the lower you go in terms of team success. Maybe they sell tickets, and it's as simple as that.

Mike Wallace's gamble is that the passing game will suffer without him. If it thrives, his value drops dramatically. He should really think about that.

That said, if he signs the tender and gets seriously hurt, he will be out many, many millions of dollars. It's not completely unsound to think about it that way.

tony hipchest
07-27-2012, 02:04 AM
the good news is that if wallace is gone, miller may finally start to look like a $7mil/year TE.

Vis
07-27-2012, 02:19 AM
the good news is that if wallace is gone, miller may finally start to look like a $7mil/year TE.

Wallace doesn't influence Miller as much as decastro and company will. Miller needs to be sent out on patterns more but only if Ben can survive without his blocking.

zcoop
07-29-2012, 09:31 AM
the good news is that if wallace is gone, miller may finally start to look like a $7mil/year TE.

You're right about that. I'm beginning to understand why some want MW gone now. 7 mil huh?

steelfury02
07-29-2012, 10:47 PM
best $7 mil you can spend on a TE - I give Miller a lot of credit for coming up with the catch under Arians system considering he had no way of getting into any rhythm

I think we'll see him back into the fold:chuckle:

Hawaii 5-0
08-16-2012, 03:24 PM
By Ray Fittipaldo / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Aug. 16, 2012

A 'real buzz' on Wallace

Second-year receiver Emmanuel Sanders is the latest player to hint that Mike Wallace could be reporting to the team soon. Wallace has been absent from training camp because he is unhappy with his contract situation.

"I know I'm ecstatic about him saying he's going to come back," Sanders said. "For the longest [time], we didn't know when he was going to come back. It's starting to look really good. There is light at the end of the tunnel with training camp and Mike coming back. The puzzle is starting to come together."

When asked why he feels so confident that Wallace will report and sign his $2.7 million tender, Sanders said: "That's what I'm hearing. He's staying down at Ike Taylor's house [in Orlando while training]. He and Ike talk almost every day. We don't know 100 percent if he's going to be back, but there's hope. There's a real buzz around the team that he's going to be coming back pretty soon. "

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/comfort-level-improves-for-heyward-649123/#ixzz23jLSgvsB

teegre
08-22-2012, 03:50 PM
Question:
Does Mike Wallace know the playbook?

[Two down; five to go...]

Steelersfan87
08-22-2012, 06:09 PM
Roethlisberger said today that Wallace told him he's been in the playbook.

teegre
08-22-2012, 06:11 PM
Roethlisberger said today that Wallace told him he's been in the playbook.

[Psst... I was being facetious. I "moved" all of the Wallace threads to the top... with asinine & redundant questions.]

Steelersfan87
08-22-2012, 06:17 PM
I just got on the forum and have been working my way up from the bottom of the threads with new posts in them, so excuse me. :noidea:

Fire Arians
08-22-2012, 06:17 PM
enough wallace threads, can we move on to dick jokes now?

Hawaii 5-0
08-22-2012, 06:19 PM
enough wallace threads, can we move on to dick jokes now?

okay, do you know any good LeBeau jokes? :wink02:

teegre
08-22-2012, 06:23 PM
I just got on the forum and have been working my way up from the bottom of the threads with new posts in them, so excuse me. :noidea:

No worries. I just figured that I'd save you from replying to the other five or six random posts I made...

Hawaii 5-0
08-23-2012, 01:48 AM
Mike Wallace will report to Pittsburgh Steelers this weekend

Posted by Ricky Brisse on August 21, 2012


Pittsburgh Steelers wide receiver Mike Wallace informed his teammates that he will show up and sign his restricted free agent tender, according to theNFL.com.

Wallace will still miss the third preseason game on Aug. 25 against Buffalo and may sit out the fourth game. He still needs to learn the new offense put in place by coordinator Todd Haley.

If Wallace signs his tender, he'll earn $2.742 million this season. The Steelers signed Antonio Brown to a five-year, $42.5 million extension while they waited to hear from Wallace.

Wallace recorded 72 catches for 1,193 yards and eight touchdowns for the Steelers last year.

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/mike_wallace_plans_to_join_steelers_this_weekend/11515822