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View Full Version : "Mike Wallace is not available for trade."


Vis
07-29-2012, 05:02 AM
Responding to trade rumors involving multiple teams, Steelers GM Kevin Colbert flatly tells me, "Mike Wallace is not available for trade."

Ed Werder

Vis
07-29-2012, 05:03 AM
Steelers G.M.: Wallace not available for trade

Posted by Evan Silva on July 29, 2012, 1:34 AM EDT

Reuters
The scribes in Pittsburgh have suggested that a likely outcome to unsigned restricted free agent receiver Mike Wallace’s training camp holdout is a trade out of town. The Steelers on Friday signed fellow wideout Antonio Brown to a lucrative, long-term contract. They will not be satisfying Wallace’s contractual demands.

But Steelers G.M. Kevin Colbert tapped the brakes Saturday on the Wallace trade speculation. Colbert says Wallace isn’t going anywhere.

“Mike Wallace is not available for trade,” Colbert told ESPN’s Ed Werder.

The Steelers appear to be digging in for a potentially lengthy, ugly holdout with their best wide receiver. In an ideal world from an organizational standpoint, Wallace would cave, report to camp after signing his one-year, $2.742 million restricted tender, and play his tail off in a contract season.

That’d be an awfully feeble course of action on the player’s part, however. If Wallace is making this a business decision, he’ll sit out the first ten regular season games and report thereafter, only to gain an accrued year toward 2013 unrestricted free agency.

Colbert is talking tough now, but you can be sure he’s still fielding phone calls. As is always the case in these kinds of scenarios, it’s going to be interesting to see which side becomes the first to budge.

Vis
07-29-2012, 05:07 AM
It's not a good. Usiness decision to sit out. He can't impress other teams, teams who didn't offer anything this year, if he joins the team for six games without knowing the new offense. Practice won't be in teaching mode at that point and he would have had no preseason. He cannot think he will be effective enough to return to the stating lineup and if the Steelers are sailing into the playoffs when he might play after gaining some understanding of the play book, it makes him look less important that they got there without him.

Galax Steeler
07-29-2012, 06:31 AM
Colbert is talking tough now, but you can be sure he’s still fielding phone calls. As is always the case in these kinds of scenarios, it’s going to be interesting to see which side becomes the first to budge.

My bet is that Wallace will budge before the Steelers organization does.

Vis
07-29-2012, 09:09 AM
On the other hand:

Sunday column: Upgrade talent, get Mike Wallace!

The Dolphins added talent to their list of players practicing today by signing first-round pick Ryan Tannehill.

But as I write in my Sunday column, they need more talent.

And I suggest they chase a trade for Pittsburgh Steelers unsigned receiver Mike Wallace. Now, understand, ESPN's Ed Werder was told by Steelers GM Kevin Colbert that Wallace is "not available in trade."

Sorry, I've covered this league too long to know that often a "no" means "not now" and sometimes it transitions to "yes, absolutely." Flatly, the Steelers know they are going to lose Wallace after this season and get practically nothing (probably a compensatory pick) in return. They may well decide to cut their losses and actually get something for Wallace instead.

I understand making a move such as this would be expensive on multiple levels. The Dolphins would have to pay the Steelers draft choice compensation and then pay Wallace a hefty contract that averages between $11-$12 million per season.

But that's the cost of doing business, folks, when the receivers you drafted (Cylde Gates, for one) did nothing as rookies and aren't exactly doing great things the first few days of this training camp when there's been no hitting and receivers should be dominating the action.

So I say the Dolphins should be in the queue (British term in honor of the Olympics) for some major upgrade at receiver and a major talent addition to the roster.

Will they be? I believe they will at least make the call.

By the way, since my writing of the column, rumors are swirling that the draft compensation for Wallace has dropped -- with talk of a third or fourth-round pick for him being the commonly used price. Are you kidding? That's a bargain.

Think about it ... a 26-year-old ready-made game breaker for a third round pick?

If Wallace was in next year's draft, knowing what we know about him, he'd be a top 10 pick.

Anyway, read the column, please.

Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2012/07/sunday-column-upgrade-talent-get-mike-wallace.html#storylink=cpy

teegre
07-29-2012, 09:39 AM
As far as trading him goes, I mentioned this in the "Antonio Brown" thread (which has disappeared):  
The Steelers HAVE to get a R2 (or R1) pick for Wallace.  

SCENARIO 1:  
Trade Wallace for a R3 pick.  
[Only a R3 pick.]  

SCENARIO 2:  
Wallace sits out.  But, he plays the final six games AND the play-offs... AND the Steelers would receive a R3 compensatory pick.  
[Six games, play-offs, & a R3 pick.]  

SUMMATION: Of course, there a few other viable scenarios (Wallace sits out & then gets franchise tag; and, of course, re-signing Wallace), but since we're talking about trades, getting "only" a R3 pick for Wallace makes little sense; it HAS to be a R2 (or R1) pick.  Otherwise, it makes more sense to keep him.  

El-Gonzo Jackson
07-29-2012, 10:09 AM
I hope Miami makes a play for Wallace. Get something for him and see what Matt Moore or Ryan Tannehill can do for his receiving stats.

MasterOfPuppets
07-29-2012, 11:13 AM
I hope Miami makes a play for Wallace. Get something for him and see what Matt Moore or Ryan Tannehill can do for his receiving stats.
same here. i hate keeping a player for just one more year when you know the chance of getting them signed are low. i mean for god sakes detroit got a 1st for roy williams and the pats got a 1st for branch ...:doh:

why didn't they fix this "holdout" clause when they negotiated the new CBA ? not showing up for camp is one thing but being allowed to miss over half the games is another.

zcoop
07-29-2012, 11:51 AM
As far as trading him goes, I mentioned this in the "Antonio Brown" thread (which has disappeared):  
The Steelers HAVE to get a R2 (or R1) pick for Wallace.  

SCENARIO 1:  
Trade Wallace for a R3 pick.  
[Only a R3 pick.]  

SCENARIO 2:  
Wallace sits out.  But, he plays the final six games AND the play-offs... AND the Steelers would receive a R3 compensatory pick.  
[Six games, play-offs, & a R3 pick.]  

SUMMATION: Of course, there a few other viable scenarios (Wallace sits out & then gets franchise tag; and, of course, re-signing Wallace), but since we're talking about trades, getting "only" a R3 pick for Wallace makes little sense; it HAS to be a R2 (or R1) pick.  Otherwise, it makes more sense to keep him.  

I also wonder what happened to the thread.

zcoop
07-29-2012, 11:54 AM
same here. i hate keeping a player for just one more year when you know the chance of getting them signed are low. i mean for god sakes detroit got a 1st for roy williams and the pats got a 1st for branch ...:doh:

why didn't they fix this "holdout" clause when they negotiated the new CBA ? not showing up for camp is one thing but being allowed to miss over half the games is another.

I guess during bargaining the league didn't want to trade any more horses. They would have to give up something to get something.

Kingmagyar
07-29-2012, 12:11 PM
Miami's 2nd round pick next year would still more then likely be a top 40 pick.

College games are emphasizing the passing game more then ever meaning every year now there will be deep drafts for receivers and cornerbacks. The Steelers have a knack for getting WRs the last few years.

TheDude
07-29-2012, 12:43 PM
While I dont fear trading Wallace (as I think our offense will be strong enough with or without him), The Dude just sees no reason to move him.

I get that he doesnt like the RFA tender. I get that he has WAY outperformed his rookie contract. I really do.

The fact remains that he has yet to gain UFA status. And that FACT makes Mike's productivity so far completely IRRELEVANT.

These arent the Rooney's rules...its the CBA. Which, by the way, the Rooneys (only ones) voted against this CBA.

Mike not being here is kinda pissin me off a little...gotta admit.

The way I look at it....he owes the steelers one more year, then he can control his destiny. Until he does the Rooney control it.

I think they are thinking the same way when they negotiate a long term extension with Bus Cook. I also think they would keep it in mind when negotiating a trade.

So I am not sure if they would take anything less than what they assumed to be an early Rd 2...but even that seems low to me.

jiminpa
07-29-2012, 06:45 PM
No matter what he does, he is no longer in control of his own destiny now. If he tries to come in for the last 6 games the Steelers can just throw 3 passes over his head in each of the first two of those games and then bench him, and the best that he will be able to do is go to one of those eternally bad teams that always overpays for flash and never has any substance for actually playing the game. At that point he will just be another loser on a loser team--a Terrel Owens attitude on the downside of a short career.

The only way he can take control of his career now is to be in camp in the morning, (Monday), and bust his rear for the whole season. I don't think he has the brains to do that. At this point I hope he holds out until the last 6 games and can't learn the plays. I'm sure Brucie will pay big money for him to be the feature WR in Bruce's second consecutive 0-16 season before getting fired again.

pete74
07-29-2012, 06:50 PM
i dont see why so many people hate wallace all of the sudden. he didnt do anything wrong. Ward held out for 2 weeks before. as for us not needing him, remember that Sanders has a better chance at getting injured then not getting injured.

jiminpa
07-29-2012, 06:56 PM
i dont see why so many people hate wallace all of the sudden. he didnt do anything wrong. Ward held out for 2 weeks before. as for us not needing him, remember that Sanders has a better chance at getting injured then not getting injured.Ward did not hold out with a new offense to learn, and it had better be a new offense. Like Tunch or Wolf, (I don't remember which one) said, he needs to be developing muscle memory at this point. And I think that once the offense moves on, they should move on.

Steelersfan87
07-29-2012, 08:03 PM
NFL plays are not rocket science. He's had the playbook this entire time and has been asking Keenan Lewis questions. It's not really a big deal at all.

steelfury02
07-29-2012, 09:27 PM
i really don't want someone that for all intensive purposes will be packing it in for next season - why trust him if the game is on the line? How the heck would his head ever be in the right place for that type of situation at the rate he is going?

By the last 1/4 of the season Ben and co. will have already been in the groove and forcing a lame duck into the picture will make no sense.

Way to go Mike - at least Santonio Holmes had the whole XLIII MVP going for him before he started to piss on his own boots . . .

fer522
07-29-2012, 09:31 PM
NFL plays are not rocket science. He's had the playbook this entire time and has been asking Keenan Lewis questions. It's not really a big deal at all.

Who the hell is Keenan Lewis the WR coach? No! the NEW OC? No!
Wallace needs to show up Monday sign his tender and Play football or he will end up like Holmes playing for a mediocre team at best

steelfury02
07-29-2012, 09:40 PM
yea, here's to hopin that Keenan Lewis's attitude isn't cut from the same cloth as Mike - he hasn't proven all that much and already he is callin the spot opposite Ike Taylor and a Pro Bowl

Before you know it, Lewis is goin to be demanding top CB money after a half of an impressive season . . .

zsheik22
07-30-2012, 11:59 AM
This was just the same position the penguins were in with J. Staal.


Trade him and hopefully get some good compensation, or let him walk next year for nothing.

pancake
07-30-2012, 01:59 PM
i dont see why so many people hate wallace all of the sudden. he didnt do anything wrong. Ward held out for 2 weeks before. as for us not needing him, remember that Sanders has a better chance at getting injured then not getting injured.

I'm with you pete... I really worry about our offense without Wallace. If we don't have MW and Brown misses a game, I have no confidence in Sanders and cotch getting it done...

pancake
07-30-2012, 02:04 PM
NFL plays are not rocket science. He's had the playbook this entire time and has been asking Keenan Lewis questions. It's not really a big deal at all.

Players have been saying that the playbook is about the same, just different terminology.

Vis
07-30-2012, 02:34 PM
Players have been saying that the playbook is about the same, just different terminology.


All playbooks are close to the same. Except oregon

Riddle_Of_Steel
07-30-2012, 02:59 PM
NFL plays are not rocket science. He's had the playbook this entire time and has been asking Keenan Lewis questions. It's not really a big deal at all.

Not rocket science? Then why aren't the Steelers trying to draft you?:doh::doh:

Steelersfan87
07-30-2012, 04:02 PM
Because I'm afraid of flying.

FrancoLambert
07-30-2012, 04:09 PM
But, would you make him available in a one for one trade to the Jags for Maurice Jones-Drew? Trade a problem for a problem? Think of what MJD brings to the table. We're deeper at WR than RB and say what you will about Redman, he hasn't been the lead horse for an entire season. Just saying and trying to provoke some discussion until we get some solid returns from camp. And please, don't jump down my throat because "it'll never happen, :blah: :blah: :blah:." Have some fun with it. :hatsoff:

TRH
07-30-2012, 04:28 PM
i dont see why so many people hate wallace all of the sudden. he didnt do anything wrong. Ward held out for 2 weeks before. as for us not needing him, remember that Sanders has a better chance at getting injured then not getting injured.


true...although there's a difference. Ward wanted to live, eat, breathe, retire, and die a Steeler. He really wanted to be here...even if he did do the 'hold out'.
Wallace doesn't appear to care if he's a Pittsburgher or not - as long as he gets a "big check"

ETL
07-30-2012, 08:36 PM
I see Dan Snyder opening his checkbook for Wallace next year and strapping the Redskins with salary cap problems for years to come ... again.

Don't worry Mike - you will get paid - even if you "play" only half the season. It just won't be as a Steeler and it seems that you are ok with that. I can't begrudge a man for wanting to get paid what he believe he is worth. Just know that you will be choosing the few extra millions for a SB ring and one day, when you look back, I wonder if you would trade those millions for that ring.

ricardisimo
07-30-2012, 08:47 PM
i dont see why so many people hate wallace all of the sudden. he didnt do anything wrong. Ward held out for 2 weeks before. as for us not needing him, remember that Sanders has a better chance at getting injured then not getting injured.
True. And if Wallace gets seriously hurt during camp he could lose many, many millions of dollars. Last I checked we lived in a capitalist society, where self-interest somehow expands the public good. Why should this particular player suddenly take one for the team?
Ward did not hold out with a new offense to learn, and it had better be a new offense. Like Tunch or Wolf, (I don't remember which one) said, he needs to be developing muscle memory at this point. And I think that once the offense moves on, they should move on.
Who cares when Ward held out? He held out well into the season, and he got rewarded for it with a contract extension unlike any the Steelers have given a wide receiver before or since.
Not rocket science? Then why aren't the Steelers trying to draft you?:doh::doh:
Uncalled for. Let's tone it down before it gets turned up.

OX1947
07-30-2012, 10:33 PM
True. And if Wallace gets seriously hurt during camp he could lose many, many millions of dollars. Last I checked we lived in a capitalist society, where self-interest somehow expands the public good. Why should this particular player suddenly take one for the team?

Who cares when Ward held out? He held out well into the season, and he got rewarded for it with a contract extension unlike any the Steelers have given a wide receiver before or since.

Uncalled for. Let's tone it down before it gets turned up.

Can't compare Ward and Wallace hold outs the same. The big difference is Hines loved the Steelers, Wallace doesn't give two craps about them.

Steelersfan87
07-30-2012, 11:15 PM
Until liking your team makes you run faster, jump higher, catch better, block harder, or throw more accurately, I'm not overly concerned with how dedicated Wallace is to the Steelers or how much he loves the organization, as long as he has a contract and is getting open.

pete74
07-31-2012, 04:34 AM
Can't compare Ward and Wallace hold outs the same. The big difference is Hines loved the Steelers, Wallace doesn't give two craps about them.

says who? why are people putting words into his mouth? he is the guy who stood up and saved our offense when Holmes was traded.

all you people talking crap on Wallace now will be the first to buy his jersy if he get a new contract and has another great year.

I wish he would sign for a discounted price and get out there and play as well but im not going to say he hates pittsburgh just because he wants to get paid his market value.

Rick5895
07-31-2012, 06:05 AM
says who? why are people putting words into his mouth? he is the guy who stood up and saved our offense when Holmes was traded.

all you people talking crap on Wallace now will be the first to buy his jersy if he get a new contract and has another great year.

I wish he would sign for a discounted price and get out there and play as well but im not going to say he hates pittsburgh just because he wants to get paid his market value.

I have no issue with a player asking for market value, however, his value is no where near 9-10 mil a year (IMO) My issue is the stance he's taking. The Steelers have done everything in good faith in regards to him. Gave him the highest tender they could, didn't reduce the tender June 15, all they have asked is he sign the tender and report to camp then they can hopefully work something out.
I don't think he hates Pittsburgh, I think he's young and foolish and playing hardball with an organization you can't do that with. When/if he leaves he will realize what most players realize when they leave the Burgh. That the Steelers are a first class organization. Usually always in contention for playoff and superbowls. This is because they don't put one player above the team. Mike, I don't think, gets that yet.

ricardisimo
07-31-2012, 06:48 AM
I happen to think that WRs are way overpaid in todays NFL. But the market is the market. What are you going to do about that? And again, he is evidently seeking VJax money, not Fitzgerald, so you're talking about money that even he agrees he agrees he's not getting.

jiminpa
07-31-2012, 08:45 AM
NFL plays are not rocket science. He's had the playbook this entire time and has been asking Keenan Lewis questions. It's not really a big deal at all.Is learning how to run the play automatically, so that he doesn't have to consciously think about his route, or assignment, while adjusting to the defense? Is committing the plays to muscle memory?

Do we know that the plays really are that similar? I doubt they are. At the very least the formations are different enough that multiple plays and types of plays can be run from the same formation, something most of the offense has never seen at the NFL level before.

Look, I think that he would have added a dimension to the offense, and spread defenses out too far to cover everything, but the dimension he is adding to the offense now is the wrong one. Thanks, Mike, for your past contributions, now don't let the door hit you.

jiminpa
07-31-2012, 08:59 AM
...and I am consistent. I've been saying all along that all he has is mutant speed, but as soon as he loses just one step he's done. There's no way he'll see six more productive years in the NFL, including this one. He wants a contract past his NFL lifespan, let him be dead weight against some loser team's cap. There are teams out there who love the dead cap weight of retired players, and he's a perfect fit with one of them.

I love what he has brought to the offense, but we don't need to mortgage the future, for a guy who will probably be retired in three years.

ricardisimo
07-31-2012, 06:21 PM
He has more than speed. He has hands. He catches the ball very well, with very few drops. Limas Sweed had speed as well, if you'll recall, along with size and a resume. Lot of good it does him if he can't hold onto the ball.

TheVet
07-31-2012, 09:59 PM
I happen to think that WRs are way overpaid in todays NFL. But the market is the market. What are you going to do about that?

Totally agree, it's having a high-quality QB that makes the difference. All we need to do is look at how the teams with the highest paid WRs are doing, and we realize that model doesn't work. A great QB can make his solid wide receivers look great.

But as to what to do about it - we're doing it! It's a great opportunity for a team with quality management; the idea is to zig when everyone else zags. Running a 3-4 when everyone else is 4-3, reintroducing a competent running game into a passing league, it all fits.

I love how the Steelers always focus on the team as a whole, and how they stay a step ahead of their competition.

austinfrench76
07-31-2012, 10:59 PM
This is not a new stance from the Steelers. That's what makes this odd. In the past few years it didn't work for Faneca, it didn't work for Hines (2 probable HOF'ers) and Wallace thinks HE will be the one to break the Steelers? ??? Especially not with some other very good receivers on the team! Get into camp, get your deal done. I just don't get his stance. Whatever, got Brown locked up-Go Steelers! !!!

OX1947
08-01-2012, 12:22 AM
says who? why are people putting words into his mouth? he is the guy who stood up and saved our offense when Holmes was traded.

all you people talking crap on Wallace now will be the first to buy his jersy if he get a new contract and has another great year.

I wish he would sign for a discounted price and get out there and play as well but im not going to say he hates pittsburgh just because he wants to get paid his market value.

Who you calling you people?

Steel_Bus_24
08-01-2012, 01:48 AM
r6vaR0nobrU

Man I want to get past this so we can enjoy many more moments like that

:tt02:

pete74
08-01-2012, 03:46 AM
Who you calling you people?

obviously the people who are posting what i stated.

BGSU A Dub
08-01-2012, 06:51 AM
r6vaR0nobrU

Man I want to get past this so we can enjoy many more moments like that

:tt02:


Watching that gave me goosebumps. I am ready for some Steelers football.

(and Mike does need to get his head out of his rear, get to camp, and help the Steelers win the 7th ring)

fer522
08-01-2012, 09:27 AM
Wallace who?!?!?!?!?
1-3lIHIyXLs

StainlessStill
08-01-2012, 09:49 AM
I've been hearing a lot of talk about Plax coming back to Pittsburgh if Wallace doesn't show his mug. Burress back to being high on the Steelers radar.

OX1947
08-01-2012, 11:01 AM
obviously the people who are posting what i stated.

So, basically, we are a bunch of aholes, is that what your saying?

Bayz101
08-01-2012, 11:10 AM
So, basically, we are a bunch of aholes, is that what your saying?

You know. Maybe it's just me, but, where did he say that? Come on man. You're putting words into his mouth, and that's dumb. Wallace isn't on my list of favorites right now either, but I wouldn't go as far to say he hates the team, or doesn't care about the team. He wants to stay here long-term. That's why he was holding out.

No real point in him holding out now, I think that ship has sailed, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care about the team. He's misguided. And lastly, Pete never called anyone an asshole, and the reality is, if Wallace comes back and lights things on fire, a lot of the naysayers will be lined up at Champ. Sports and NFL Shop ready to buy his jersey.

pete74
08-01-2012, 05:55 PM
So, basically, we are a bunch of aholes, is that what your saying?

Were did I call you or anyone for that matter an ass hole? I understand your mad at mike Wallace but don't take it out on me. If it was up to me no player in the NFL would be allowed to make over $10 million a year and if you hold out you would automatically lose half your pay for the season. With that said please relax. Things will work themselves out. They always do

Vis
08-01-2012, 06:23 PM
Were did I call you or anyone for that matter an ass hole? I understand your mad at mike Wallace but don't take it out on me. If it was up to me no player in the NFL would be allowed to make over $10 million a year and if you hold out you would automatically lose half your pay for the season. With that said please relax. Things will work themselves out. They always do

If we limit what the players make can we limit what the league makes or the owners make?

pete74
08-01-2012, 07:06 PM
I would like that. Then they can lower the advertising cost and in return we could purchase products cheaper.

zcoop
08-01-2012, 07:51 PM
I would like that. Then they can lower the advertising cost and in return we could purchase products cheaper.

Don't hold your breath.

OX1947
08-01-2012, 09:51 PM
You know. Maybe it's just me, but, where did he say that? Come on man. You're putting words into his mouth, and that's dumb. Wallace isn't on my list of favorites right now either, but I wouldn't go as far to say he hates the team, or doesn't care about the team. He wants to stay here long-term. That's why he was holding out.

No real point in him holding out now, I think that ship has sailed, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care about the team. He's misguided. And lastly, Pete never called anyone an asshole, and the reality is, if Wallace comes back and lights things on fire, a lot of the naysayers will be lined up at Champ. Sports and NFL Shop ready to buy his jersey.

Sarcasm is "a sharp, bitter, or cutting expression or remark; a bitter jibe or taunt", usually conveyed through irony or understatement
Most authorities distinguish sarcasm from irony; however, others argue that sarcasm may or often does involve irony or employs ambivalence. Sarcasm may be appropriate or inappropriate, though this is generally a function of one's point of view.

Some of you need to chilax and humor yourselves a little more. No need to take things so seriously on a message board.

TRH
08-02-2012, 12:24 PM
You know. Maybe it's just me, but, where did he say that? Come on man. You're putting words into his mouth, and that's dumb. Wallace isn't on my list of favorites right now either, but I wouldn't go as far to say he hates the team, or doesn't care about the team. He wants to stay here long-term. That's why he was holding out.

No real point in him holding out now, I think that ship has sailed, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care about the team. He's misguided. And lastly, Pete never called anyone an asshole, and the reality is, if Wallace comes back and lights things on fire, a lot of the naysayers will be lined up at Champ. Sports and NFL Shop ready to buy his jersey.


I do agree with you...Wallace has never said "he hates it here" or anything like that. And he's DEFINITELY being misguided by greedy and foolish representation.

But that said....he's absolutely doesn't seem like a HInes Ward or Antonio Brown either. Those 2 love being Steelers, wanted to be here, showed it (even with Ward's one-time minor hold out), and just lived and breathed black and gold.
Wallace doesn't. I don't believe he cares where he plays - as long as he gets a big check.

pancake
08-02-2012, 02:30 PM
I read today that Big Ben has talked with Wallace and that he expects for him to be in camp soon...

Definitely some good news. :thumbsup:

Atlanta Dan
08-02-2012, 02:35 PM
With regard to a trade, Gerry Dulac says in his chat that still might happen

My prediction has been this: Wallace will report after the first preseason game and sign his tender. But, even if he does, that doesn't mean the Steelers will sign him to a long-term extension. Wallace has alienated several people with his approach to this holdout, including Mike Tomlin. If he hasn't reported by the second preseason game, it wpouldnt surprise me if the Steelers traded him while they can still get something for him.

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/117464-gerry-dulacs-steelers-chat-transcript-8212

But for now, this video that was purged during last week's crash of the forum continues to ask an important question:chuckle:

VcgvFEdhq-I

Steelersfan87
08-02-2012, 03:16 PM
Dulac also said Colon would never move to guard.

Bayz101
08-02-2012, 03:48 PM
Dulac also said Colon would never move to guard.

:chuckle:

pancake
08-02-2012, 05:32 PM
Dulac also said Colon would never move to guard.

Never say never...

pancake
08-02-2012, 05:39 PM
I still holdout hope that the two sides can come to a long term agreement.

steelfury02
08-03-2012, 08:30 AM
hilarious video -

totally off topic but has anyone heard anything recently about Tony Clemons? A post-gazette article interviewing AB asked him if there was anyone to be watching in camp and he brought up Clemons. Thought I heard somewhere that he has the dropsies - am I wrong or is he looking promising?

43Hitman
08-03-2012, 12:56 PM
hilarious video -

totally off topic but has anyone heard anything recently about Tony Clemons? A post-gazette article interviewing AB asked him if there was anyone to be watching in camp and he brought up Clemons. Thought I heard somewhere that he has the dropsies - am I wrong or is he looking promising?

From what I've heard, he's been up and down. Typical for a rook.

Vis
08-03-2012, 01:24 PM
Antonio Brown ‏@AntonioBrown84

Decisions made today affect life tomorrow!


Who's he talking to?

Vis
08-03-2012, 01:40 PM
Chris Adamski ‏@BuzzsawPGH

Ike Taylor: "Emmanuel Sanders has gotten a whole lot better than last year. A whole lot better. 360 degrees. Day and night."

GoFor7
08-03-2012, 01:42 PM
Chris Adamski ‏@BuzzsawPGH

Ike Taylor: "Emmanuel Sanders has gotten a whole lot better than last year. A whole lot better. 360 degrees. Day and night."

I wonder how well Ike did in Geometry...

Hawaii 5-0
08-03-2012, 01:43 PM
totally off topic but has anyone heard anything recently about Tony Clemons? A post-gazette article interviewing AB asked him if there was anyone to be watching in camp and he brought up Clemons. Thought I heard somewhere that he has the dropsies - am I wrong or is he looking promising?


I have read numerous reports that Toney Clemons has the "Sweeds" and is dropping lots of passes and is being outplayed by both Derrick Williams and Marquis Maze.

Bayz101
08-03-2012, 01:47 PM
Chris Adamski ‏@BuzzsawPGH

Ike Taylor: "Emmanuel Sanders has gotten a whole lot better than last year. A whole lot better. 360 degrees. Day and night."

Lol. So he went from good, to great, to excellent, and ended right back at good again?

Bayz101
08-03-2012, 01:48 PM
I have read numerous reports that Toney Clemons has the "Sweeds" and is dropping lots of passes and is being outplayed by both Derrick Williams and Marquis Maze.

Well, that kind of sucks.

Vis
08-03-2012, 01:50 PM
I have read numerous reports that Toney Clemons has the "Sweeds" and is dropping lots of passes and is being outplayed by both Derrick Williams and Marquis Maze.


That gives him 3 years with the team, right?

BGSU A Dub
08-03-2012, 01:53 PM
Saw on ESPN today where they were doing "Fact or Fiction" and the statement was made: The Steelers are less of a playoff contender without Mike Wallace. It was deemed "Fiction" as it was pointed out we still have a great defense, Antonio Brown, and Ben Roethlisberger.

I agree that not having Mike around doesn't make us any less of a playoff contender, he would just be very helpful for us in the playoffs (assuming he gets his ass to camp and practice).

GoFor7
08-03-2012, 02:02 PM
Saw on ESPN today where they were doing "Fact or Fiction" and the statement was made: The Steelers are less of a playoff contender without Mike Wallace. It was deemed "Fiction" as it was pointed out we still have a great defense, Antonio Brown, and Ben Roethlisberger.

I agree that not having Mike around doesn't make us any less of a playoff contender, he would just be very helpful for us in the playoffs (assuming he gets his ass to camp and practice).

What? ESPN saying something positive about the Steelers? I'm calling bullshit...:chuckle:

In all seriousness, Wallace's absence may not boot us out of the playoff picture, but it makes life more difficult for the offense. Even when Wallace doesn't do anything, he does a lot. He's probably the most dangerous deep threat in the game today, and defenses have to account for that by keeping the safeties back. That opens up the middle of the field for the other receivers and also makes it easier to run the ball.

I think there are going to be times this season when the offense has to bail out the defense (similar to the latter part of the 70's dynasty). Without Mike Wallace, that becomes a lot harder.

Hawaii 5-0
08-03-2012, 02:04 PM
That gives him 3 years with the team, right?

yup, and Clemons can use that time to get his vision checked and then undergo psychiatric evaluation for clinical depression...:chuckle:

teegre
08-03-2012, 02:21 PM
I wonder how well Ike did in Geometry...

LMFAO

pancake
08-03-2012, 02:49 PM
I wonder how well Ike did in Geometry...

Lmao!!! My first thought was from anchorman, when Ron burgundy counldn't figure out the phrase "when in Rome"...lol

Steelersfan87
08-03-2012, 03:13 PM
Clemons would not be the first rookie to have the dropsies in his rookie year and turn it around. Nate Washington for example. Or Terrell Owens. But he should have plenty of time to work on his hands since he probably won't be seeing the field on offense too much this year.

TheDude
08-03-2012, 03:53 PM
The Dude was at practice yesterday.
Toney looked really bad. Way too many drops!!

But thats....just like my opinion, man.

Hawaii 5-0
08-03-2012, 04:26 PM
The Dude was at practice yesterday.
Toney looked really bad. Way too many drops!!

But thats....just like my opinion, man.

it's not just your opinion, daily reports out of camp have Toney Clemons dropping balls repeatedly. bad hands are why a guy with great measurables like Clemons was still available in the 7th round.

both Derrick Williams and Marquis Maze are playing better and are ahead of Clemons on the depth chart right now, if Clemons doesn't start catching balls in practice and plays well in the early pre-season games he will be hard-pressed to make the roster.

Bayz101
08-03-2012, 04:32 PM
The Dude was at practice yesterday.
Toney looked really bad. Way too many drops!!

But thats....just like my opinion, man.

Alright, el duderino. How are you getting into almost every practice??? :flap:

Steel95
08-03-2012, 05:35 PM
same here. i hate keeping a player for just one more year when you know the chance of getting them signed are low. i mean for god sakes detroit got a 1st for roy williams and the pats got a 1st for branch ...:doh:

why didn't they fix this "holdout" clause when they negotiated the new CBA ? not showing up for camp is one thing but being allowed to miss over half the games is another.


I love the Steelers Organization and everything it stands for. I also commend the organization for not caving in to a player or players who think they are bigger than the team or organization. But I have to agree, why keep a player around if he doesn't want to be here? Of course, we don't know if Mike wants to be traded or not; but the organization has to realize at some point this kid wants more than what they are willing to give. If he doesn't want to contribute or be a part of the team, why not trade him provided you get a high draft pick in return?

Bayz101
08-03-2012, 05:58 PM
Now, i'm a moderator, and i'm supposed to PREVENT a thread from being derailed, but here's a note from yesterday's practice:

"Clemons did not have the best day. While he is an excellent physical specimen and can get open, he lacks concentration. He allowed one perfectly thrown ball to go through his hands on a drill.

Later, Clemons would burn Walter McFadden and dropped what should have been a touchdown, but failed to adjust. Haley was not impressed and did not hide it. He got behind the defense one more time and failed to adjust to the ball.

Not to pile on, but Clemons had one thrown behind him on what should have been a comeback route, but he failed to turn to look back for the ball."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1283372-pittsburgh-steelers-observations-from-thursdays-training-camp-practice

It's in one of the later slides on that article.

Fire Arians
08-03-2012, 06:16 PM
Now, i'm a moderator, and i'm supposed to PREVENT a thread from being derailed, but here's a note from yesterday's practice:

"Clemons did not have the best day. While he is an excellent physical specimen and can get open, he lacks concentration. He allowed one perfectly thrown ball to go through his hands on a drill.

Later, Clemons would burn Walter McFadden and dropped what should have been a touchdown, but failed to adjust. Haley was not impressed and did not hide it. He got behind the defense one more time and failed to adjust to the ball.

Not to pile on, but Clemons had one thrown behind him on what should have been a comeback route, but he failed to turn to look back for the ball."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1283372-pittsburgh-steelers-observations-from-thursdays-training-camp-practice

It's in one of the later slides on that article.

sounds like limas sweed

Steelersfan87
08-03-2012, 07:46 PM
It really does, unfortunately. Let's see what he does in the preseason first though.

xbroughneck
08-03-2012, 07:54 PM
Chris Adamski ‏@BuzzsawPGH

Ike Taylor: "Emmanuel Sanders has gotten a whole lot better than last year. A whole lot better. 360 degrees. Day and night."

If he's only healthy for 3 games (and I don't think Ike is talking about him being physically STRONGER) I don't care that he got a whole lot better. Well, I do...but it means nothing to me unless he plays at least 10 games. Steelers need reliable receivers.

43Hitman
08-03-2012, 07:58 PM
It really does, unfortunately. Let's see what he does in the preseason first though.

It does seem that way. You never know though, once a guy gets a little more comfortable in the system and with game speed, he can flourish. However, that doesn't mean we have to waste as much time with him as we did with Sweed.

steelfury02
08-03-2012, 09:22 PM
I apologize for derailing things,

TO get somewhat back on topic, think the Cowgirls would be interested in Wallace, especially with their Dez Bryant situation?

fastscirocco
08-03-2012, 10:49 PM
I hope we don't lose Wallace!

Rick5895
08-04-2012, 05:39 AM
I hope we don't lose Wallace!

I don't want to lose him either, but right now we really don't have him. If he returns, will his mindset be team oriented? He doesn't want to risk injury and sign the tender and play for a "paltry"2.5 or whatever. When/if he does come back and has that thought about injury how effective will he really be? These are questions the Steelers FO must asnwer.
If we can get a team to give us a 1st or 2nd for him it would be foolish at this point not to.

fastscirocco
08-04-2012, 06:36 AM
I don't want to lose him either, but right now we really don't have him. If he returns, will his mindset be team oriented? He doesn't want to risk injury and sign the tender and play for a "paltry"2.5 or whatever. When/if he does come back and has that thought about injury how effective will he really be? These are questions the Steelers FO must asnwer.
If we can get a team to give us a 1st or 2nd for him it would be foolish at this point not to.

That's true, if he doesn't have the right attitude he shouldn't don the black n gold.

BGSU A Dub
08-04-2012, 07:45 AM
I apologize for derailing things,

TO get somewhat back on topic, think the Cowgirls would be interested in Wallace, especially with their Dez Bryant situation?

The Cowgirls are always interested in talent and Jerry Jones will open up that pocket book to get them.

How about we trade Wallace to the Lions for Megatron, straight up. They both should get paid the same, right? :chuckle:

Bayz101
08-04-2012, 08:40 AM
The Cowgirls are always interested in talent and Jerry Jones will open up that pocket book to get them.

How about we trade Wallace to the Lions for Megatron, straight up. They both should get paid the same, right? :chuckle:

Bam! So. A lot of people have been arguing that Wallace and Megatron should be paid around the same, because they put up the same numbers. Are you telling me that trying to trade Wallace for Johnson WOULDN'T result in us being laughed at accordingly?

teegre
08-04-2012, 09:07 AM
Bam! So. A lot of people have been arguing that Wallace and Megatron should be paid around the same, because they put up the same numbers. Are you telling me that trying to trade Wallace for Johnson WOULDN'T result in us being laughed at accordingly?

That clarifies & crystallizes everything.  

Would anyone HONESTLY believe that ARIZ would trade Fitzgerald straight up for Wallace???  

Actually, Wallace is younger... so, ARIZ  would probably have to give up a R5 draft pick, as well.  

To be clear: I want Wallace here, and I've stated that he is still attainable (for a realistic $9-$10 million per year).  BUT, the Fitzgerald comparisons need to stop.  "Numbers never lie"... but they don't mention that Fitzgerald got his numbers (1,400 yards, 8 TDs) with JOHN SKELTON throwing him the ball. 

steelfury02
08-04-2012, 10:04 AM
I would love to have him back, not sure I agree with the idea that he has the kind of love for the Steelers that Hines or Brown supposedly has - but that is all speculative

Some people say it is only a matter of a 2 to 3 weeks now - if that is true, to me, that is the best case scenario at this point. Do you think the damage in the relationship is already done? If he holds out even until right before beginning of regular season, he is behind IMHO - having read through playbook or not - not the same as practicing and creating chemistry to me

I agree - will his head be in the right place? Even if all he does is pose a threat as decoy and open things up (which is a very valuable asset) - could we have already lost him? Will he truly be committed to helping this team win games, and big games as well. Or, will he make some business decisions that will affect blocking, route running, play calling? It might not be noticeable to the point of pulling him and having him riding the pine - but yes, these are all things the FO should consider.

I'm 50/50 he is with this team after this season and pretty sure he won't be given much room to breathe both attitude and performance wise. Who knows - they could already have their minds made up for this guy based on evolving attitude.

GoFor7
08-04-2012, 10:10 AM
I agree - will his head be in the right place? Even if all he does is pose a threat as decoy and open things up (which is a very valuable asset) - could we have already lost him? Will he truly be committed to helping this team win games, and big games as well. Or, will he make some business decisions that will affect blocking, route running, play calling? It might not be noticeable to the point of pulling him and having him riding the pine - but yes, these are all things the FO should consider.

That reason alone should be enough for them to dress him assuming he shows up before week 1. Can an opposing defense risk letting Wallace run free even if he's in an offense he's not entirely familiar with? It only takes one throw to blow the top off of a defense.

steelfury02
08-04-2012, 10:13 AM
well, for the sake of our favorite team's success, if all Mikey does is decoy and is still willing to work for the long bomb TD on occasion, even if its for only 1 last season, then fine by me :thumbsup:

After that, I do question his long-term stability here

GoFor7
08-04-2012, 11:48 AM
If Wallace does not end up signing long term, the Steelers will need to find another deep threat in the 2013 draft. It'll be easier for defenses to shut down both the passing and running attack if the Steelers don't have someone that can stretch the field.

pancake
08-04-2012, 06:01 PM
I think if MW gets into camp, the FO with still try and sign him to long term. They might be upset right now, but once a deal is struck both parties will be happy. Then the first time BB hits him for a long TD, then everyone will be glad he stayed...


Winning cures all...

Blitzburghfan
08-04-2012, 06:21 PM
Don't get me wrong, I hope/wish Wallace signs long term with the team, but I've just got this gut feeling that after this year he won't be a Steeler. If I were in the FO, and I'm not, I would trade him after/if he didn't show up for the first regular season game. Because obviously he wants more than we would be willing to give and at least we would get something for him.....even if it's a tuna fish sandwich...kidding of course

Ricco Suavez
08-04-2012, 09:37 PM
Don't get me wrong, I hope/wish Wallace signs long term with the team, but I've just got this gut feeling that after this year he won't be a Steeler. If I were in the FO, and I'm not, I would trade him after/if he didn't show up for the first regular season game. Because obviously he wants more than we would be willing to give and at least we would get something for him.....even if it's a tuna fish sandwich...kidding of course

Hard to work out a trade when all the other teams know we are having a hard time signing him. I mean why give up a high draft choice and then HOPE you can reach an agreement long term.

The Steelers best bet is to play this season out, try in good faith to work out a new deal. If no deal is in place use him this season and then after he is signed by another team take our compensatory pick the next year, possibly as high as a third round.

pancake
08-04-2012, 10:03 PM
Hard to work out a trade when all the other teams know we are having a hard time signing him. I mean why give up a high draft choice and then HOPE you can reach an agreement long term.

The Steelers best bet is to play this season out, try in good faith to work out a new deal. If no deal is in place use him this season and then after he is signed by another team take our compensatory pick the next year, possibly as high as a third round.

Or franchise tag him next year...

teegre
08-05-2012, 11:14 AM
Or franchise tag him next year...

Exactly.  Wallace is "stuck."  

In order to become a FA, he has to play the final six games... for a reduced amount from $2.7 million (a little over $1 million).  

So... he earns his FA status... only to to FRANCHISE TAGGED ($7 million).  

At that point, in order to reclaim the millions he has lost from this holdout (he could gave had $50 million), his best hope is to get $42 million for 3 years ($50 million minus the aforementioned $1 million & $7 million), which comes out to $14 million per year... which is a very high figure, especially since at the age of 28, he would be considered "old" for a speed receiver.  

His best (& only smart option) is to resign now.  

BGSU A Dub
08-05-2012, 01:04 PM
Here's what I see: Wallace either continues to be a diva and want more money and has a career similiar to a T.O. or Chad Johnson or he takes a lesson in maturity and has a great career with the Steelers where he has a chance to become one of the best. The ball is in his court.

OX1947
08-05-2012, 01:19 PM
I think if MW gets into camp, the FO with still try and sign him to long term. They might be upset right now, but once a deal is struck both parties will be happy. Then the first time BB hits him for a long TD, then everyone will be glad he stayed...


Winning cures all...

Steelers do not negotiate during the season. My guess is, if Wallace signs an extension, it would have to come from him going the front office and saying he will sign the new contract.

pancake
08-05-2012, 04:34 PM
Exactly.  Wallace is "stuck."  

In order to become a FA, he has to play the final six games... for a reduced amount from $2.7 million (a little over $1 million).  

So... he earns his FA status... only to to FRANCHISE TAGGED ($7 million).  

At that point, in order to reclaim the millions he has lost from this holdout (he could gave had $50 million), his best hope is to get $42 million for 3 years ($50 million minus the aforementioned $1 million & $7 million), which comes out to $14 million per year... which is a very high figure, especially since at the age of 28, he would be considered "old" for a speed receiver.  

His best (& only smart option) is to resign now.  

This years tag was 9.5 million, next year it should be around 10.

teegre
08-06-2012, 07:51 AM
This years tag was 9.5 million, next year it should be around 10.

True. It alters my point only slightly,..

At that point, in order to reclaim the millions he has lost from this holdout (he could gave had $50 million), his best hope is to get $39 million for 3 years ($50 million minus the aforementioned $1 million & $10 million), which comes out to $13 million per year... which is a very high figure, especially since at the age of 28, he would be considered "old" for a speed receiver.  

His best (& only smart option) is (still) to resign now.  

TheDude
08-06-2012, 10:29 AM
I think the Rooneys had a gameplan for 17 prior to the offseason and I dont think they "wanted" or "planned" to use the Franchise Tag in 2013.

Then the offseason played out as it did.

We heard "Fitz numbers" were 17's expectations. The FO said things like "we're still hopeful to keep him in Pittsburgh" and "we're still confident an extension is possible".

Then trade season/draft came around. The compensation required for a deal to take place scared other teams off i guess, b/c no trade took place.

No bridges were burned. Wallace came across like an amateur who refused to listen to his agent or was getting HORRIBLE advice.

The FO, it was almost like they were trying to keep the convince themselves that he would eventually smarten up. Also they could keep the fanbase cool and remind 17 that his options were limited.

But when camp broke and he didnt show....the whole game changed.

IMO the only real value the Franchise Tag serves (especially for those who want 17 to stay a steeler long term) is for leverage it provides during extension negotiations. Which wont take place until he reports.

I dont think the Rooneys will want him as part of their locker room in 2013 on a 1 yr deal.

steelfury02
08-06-2012, 11:11 AM
to me, it seemed like they shot an arrow across his bow with the Brown signing (even though some press/fans say its "unrelated") - if that wasn't a signal to "get here to get deal done" then I don't know what is

Steelerfreak58
08-06-2012, 12:54 PM
The young man is just being foolish at this point.

ricardisimo
08-06-2012, 02:50 PM
True. It alters my point only slightly,..

At that point, in order to reclaim the millions he has lost from this holdout (he could gave had $50 million), his best hope is to get $39 million for 3 years ($50 million minus the aforementioned $1 million & $10 million), which comes out to $13 million per year... which is a very high figure, especially since at the age of 28, he would be considered "old" for a speed receiver.

His best (& only smart option) is (still) to resign now.
Why? Some extremely foolish team will throw Fitzgerald money at him. You know it, I know it, and he knows it. Why does everyone talk as if his only option is to sign his tender right now with the Steelers? Why shouldn't he sit out ten games, then use the last six to show his stuff to the rest of the league? It's highly doubtful that an athlete with Wallace's skills will somehow wither on the vine. Ain't gonna happen.

pancake
08-06-2012, 03:34 PM
Steelers do not negotiate during the season. My guess is, if Wallace signs an extension, it would have to come from him going the front office and saying he will sign the new contract.

True, but we still have a month before the season starts and if gets his butt in camp, then we could possibly see a long term contract.

Vis
08-06-2012, 03:43 PM
Update - not update:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/61204/steelers-still-not-trading-mike-wallace


Steelers still not trading Mike Wallace
August, 6, 2012

General manager Kevin Colbert reiterated the Steelers are standing firm on a couple of issues: the team won't negotiate with wide receiver Mike Wallace until he signs his restricted free-agent tender and the team isn't interested in trading him.

"Mike’s not available," Colbert told 93.7 The Fan in Pittsburgh, via sportsradiointerviews.com. "We have as big a need for a big-play receiver as anybody. We want him to be here and Mike wants to be here long term. So he’s not available.”

Although Wallace remains a holdout, the Steelers hold all the cards in this situation. Wallace can miss the first 10 games and still become eligible for unrestricted free agency by being on the roster for the last six weeks. But the Steelers could keep Wallace next year by placing the franchise tag on him, or at least use the threat of the tag.

It's true that the tag is prohibitive because Pittsburgh will be tight against the salary cap next season. But the Steelers could get Wallace for the 2012 and 2013 seasons for a total of $14 million ($2.7 million RFA tender plus $11 million franchise tag), which is a decent value for a No. 1 wide receiver for two years. Just compare that figure to the $26 million guaranteed that the Buccaneers are paying Vincent Jackson over two seasons.

Of course, Wallace could get a bigger payday if he reports to training camp.

"Mike knows where things stand," Colbert said. "The next step for him really is to report and to sign his tender, and until that happens, there won’t be anything else. And if that happens, nobody knows where it will go from there. So that’s where it is and has been, and hopefully it comes to an end sooner rather than later because it will be good for us, but it will also be good for Mike.”

The signing of wide receiver Antonio Brown to a long-term deal was seen as a message to Wallace. But Colbert said Brown's contract was "unrelated" to Wallace's situation.

“We had actually talked with Antonio’s representatives as far back as the combine [in February] because he was entering his third year, and we said, ‘Look, listen, during the summer, sometimes during training camp we take care of guys entering the third year of their contract, but we do it in an order,'" Colbert said. "We try to take care of guys that are going to be unrestricted free agents, restricted free agents, and then we always move into that next group, which Antonio is in. That had been in the works for awhile and really the two are unrelated.”

steelfury02
08-07-2012, 08:35 AM
what, the PR department didn't tell him to say ?

"Yea Mike, that was a hint, mmmmkay."

teegre
08-07-2012, 10:16 AM
Why? Some extremely foolish team will throw Fitzgerald money at him. You know it, I know it, and he knows it. Why does everyone talk as if his only option is to sign his tender right now with the Steelers? Why shouldn't he sit out ten games, then use the last six to show his stuff to the rest of the league? It's highly doubtful that an athlete with Wallace's skills will somehow wither on the vine. Ain't gonna happen.

True. Daniel Snyder comes to mind.

But, my point is that in order to recoup from holding out this year (& being franchised next year), Wallace would HAVE to get $13 million per year just to make up the difference.

Ergo, unless Snyder pays him (which, you are correct, is a realistic possibility), he'd be making less money. Thus, why not just take the $10 million per year now??? In the end, it'll be the same $50 million.

blackandgoldsc
08-07-2012, 10:50 AM
I am one that is done with Wallace. Whether they have a right to hold out for more money or not is irrelevant to me. Any pro athlete (in my mind) needs to realize that they are not bigger than the team or the sport for which they play.

I was hoping someone would sign Wallace to the first round tender this offseason so we could get a first round pick for him, obviously that did not happen. I do not believe Wallace will ever sign a long term deal with Pittsburgh.

If Wallace chooses to sit out the first 10 weeks then that is fine but I think we should cut his pay so it isn't the regular $2.7 mil that he was going to get, instead pay him the 110% of last years salary. He has his rights, so does Pittsburgh. If he drags this out then I don't think we should pay him but the bare minimum we have to because he will be gone next year anyway.

Fire Haley
08-07-2012, 11:17 AM
Mike Wallace vs. Antonio Brown

For the first time ever, the NFL has made All-22 Coaches Tape available to the public, as part of its Game Rewind package. The Coaches Tape is called "All 22" because it allows us to see all 22 offensive and defensive players in one picture. NFL.com's package provides two shots of each snap, the first from a higher sideline angle and the second from the end zone. We can actually see the safeties, and receivers' full routes. You can't see those things watching the games on T.V.

I took my first crack at the All-22 Tape last night, watching three Steelers games: Week 8 versus New England, Week 15 at San Francisco, and Pittsburgh's Wild Card round loss to the Broncos. I wanted to learn more about Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown. Wallace wanted big money this offseason. Brown got it, and the Steelers are letting unsigned holdout Wallace twist in the wind.

I wound up viewing about 225 snaps and 30 targets of Wallace, and 180 snaps and 30-something targets of Brown. (Brown wasn't quite an every-down player, even during his hot stretch run.) And I think the Steelers are going to sorely miss their best offensive weapon, if they continue to play hardball with him.

Though sometimes billed as a one-trick pony deep threat, Wallace beat the defense in the three games on a variety of patterns. He ran comebacks, drags, and screens in addition to fly routes, and regularly looked like the best player on the field. Wallace is a skinny receiver, but he runs well after the catch, and that was particularly evident in the 49ers game. The Broncos primarily used top cornerback Champ Bailey in coverage of Wallace in the playoffs, while Brown squared off with Andre’ Goodman. Denver released Goodman this offseason. Against New England, the Pats consistently placed two to three defenders in Wallace's vicinity. Bill Belichick was worried about him.

I can't speak responsibly to route running because I don't know the play calls and assignments, but Wallace did seem to round off his patterns and freelance on occasion. I think the bottom line is that Wallace got open downfield more than any other Steelers receiver. It's probably safe to say that's a good thing.

Wallace is a dynamic player -- much more so than Brown. I really don't even think it's close between the two. "60 Minutes" keeps the defense on its heels. Because Wallace so often requires two or even three defenders in his area, the field opens up for others. Brown is a good player, a really good receiver who plays at a crisp pace and has earned Ben Roethlisberger's trust. Brown has sure hands and is capable of highlight-reel catches.

But Wallace is a great player. An every-snap difference maker, schooling defenders with the ball in his hands and taking away coverage even when his number isn't called. And here's guessing that's why the Steelers are refusing to trade him.


The Pittsburgh offense won't be the same without him.

http://rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/41062/77/we-have-football?pg=2

steelfury02
08-07-2012, 11:33 AM
My response to that article:

A. Yes, no one is denying he is a great WR that commands double teams
B. He is special
C. We've won 2 SBs without him, with the best deep threat being 1 Nate Washington.
D. Steelers want Wallace. They don't need him to win a Super Bowl.
E. Ask New England how all of there weapons of late have helped them win a Super Bowl?
F. Ask the Steelers how much they miss Burress or Holmes? Not much.

43Hitman
08-07-2012, 02:27 PM
My response to that article:

A. Yes, no one is denying he is a great WR that commands double teams
B. He is special
C. We've won 2 SBs without him, with the best deep threat being 1 Nate Washington.
D. Steelers want Wallace. They don't need him to win a Super Bowl.
E. Ask New England how all of there weapons of late have helped them win a Super Bowl?
F. Ask the Steelers how much they miss Burress or Holmes? Not much.

Exactly. Wallace is not bigger than the whole. If he wants to rot at home, then so be it.

Fire Haley
08-07-2012, 02:48 PM
I'd be happier using Wallace up this year then chucking him over the wall....Ben likes his receivers

fastscirocco
08-07-2012, 05:41 PM
The Steelers Offense won't be the same without him (assuming he doesn't sign) but th offense will move forward and adapt.

Steelersfan87
08-07-2012, 06:00 PM
If Wallace chooses to sit out the first 10 weeks then that is fine but I think we should cut his pay so it isn't the regular $2.7 mil that he was going to get, instead pay him the 110% of last years salary. He has his rights, so does Pittsburgh. If he drags this out then I don't think we should pay him but the bare minimum we have to because he will be gone next year anyway.

The Steelers only had one day (June 15th) to reduce his tender. Obviously that has long passed. However, Wallace won't earn money for any time that he holds out anyway. If he holds out until the last 6 game, he will only earn around $1 million this year.

fastscirocco
08-07-2012, 06:04 PM
The Steelers only had one day (June 15th) to reduce his tender. Obviously that has long passed. However, Wallace won't earn money for any time that he holds out anyway. If he holds out until the last 6 game, he will only earn around $1 million this year.

I would like to have my income "reduced" and "only" eary $1 million this year. ;-)

steelfury02
08-07-2012, 09:30 PM
that's what I love about professional athletes, "they gotta get what they deserve"

I guess 2.7 million, for all intensive purposes, a temporary, deflated figure should he show up and work out a deal, is not "fair"

I'd love to not show up for work for days/weeks at a time, only getting 2.7 million but hey we shouldn't blast the poor wittle fella . . .

TheVet
08-07-2012, 09:58 PM
that's what I love about professional athletes, "they gotta get what they deserve"

I guess 2.7 million, for all intensive purposes, a temporary, deflated figure should he show up and work out a deal, is not "fair"

I'd love to not show up for work for days/weeks at a time, only getting 2.7 million but hey we shouldn't blast the poor wittle fella . . .

That phrase is "intents and purposes" - if you think about it, it makes sense. Not to be a spelling/grammar guy, but I noticed you using it a few times now, so I thought I'd help out! :drink:

steelfury02
08-07-2012, 10:02 PM
thank you - you'll find me mucking up to, its, and there a lot as well, my most recent mistake being "foilage," errr, I mean foliage

TheVet
08-07-2012, 10:43 PM
foilage - I like it! Foilage is what we're gonna do to Peyton Manning's best-laid plans on opening day in Denver!!

Steelersfan87
08-07-2012, 11:17 PM
I understand the point that fans regularly make regarding fans and their exorbitant pay, and I also don't mean to imply that the people who say this are not aware of these facts, but I think it's important to keep in mind a few things about professional athletes and their pay.

To begin with, they are at the pinnacle of their profession, and accordingly get paid better than everybody else. And the pay scale is dictated by the popularity of the sport, so it's kind of the fans' fault for pumping so much money into the game, allowing team owners to offer players more money to keep them from going to other teams.

Another thing to keep in mind is that, for the vast majority of players, they have probably already dedicated a decade or so of their lives to improving themselves athletically before they even enter the league. They strive for years and years to earn a payday that they don't reach until they finish with college football, jeopardizing their bodies (aka their earning potential) for no pay for 2-5 years. And then the window for that pay day itself is narrow, especially with new rookie wage scales. At best, a player probably has about a 10-15 year window during which to earn as much as possible for their life's work.

Not to generalize, but many NFL players have come up from troubled backgrounds where the only means of escape from a life of poverty is the pursue professional sports, and I definitely think that that plays a major role in the financial decisions of professional athletes. They seek to secure the financial future of not only themselves, and not only their immediate family, but their entire extended family, because they want to remove their entire family out of that troubled environment. Obviously this is far from universal among athletes, but it is a factor for many.

Now, with all of that said, yes, $2.7 million is a lot of money, and more than a lot of people will ever see in their entire lives. And yes, athletes should have a secondary skill to fall back on if they can't make it in the NFL or suffer a career ending injury. You can offer up a dozen other counter arguments that I would say "yes, I agree" to as well. But it's also important to understand that professional athletes, like actors and any other person in the entertainment business, function on a completely different compensation paradigm than us mere citizens, so it's not entirely fair to compare your salary to a professional athlete's and conclude that the athlete is just being selfish and greedy.

Are a lot of them selfish and greedy? Undoubtedly. Is Mike Wallace in particular selfish and greedy? Perhaps. But that's certainly far from the case for all athletes, especially the ones that take care of not only their own families, but their communities and charities.

Anyway, that's just my two cents on that topic, so take it as you will.

Bayz101
08-07-2012, 11:34 PM
It may be your two cents, but it's certainly worth more. Good point, and I agree thoroughly.

teegre
08-07-2012, 11:45 PM
It may be your two cents, but it's certainly worth more. Good point, and I agree thoroughly.

And, of I may add a quote from Chris Rock that puts everything in perspective:  

"Shaq is rich; the guy writing him checks is wealthy."  

Billionaires not giving money to millionaires... is equivalent to millionaires not taking $2.7 million (when Joe Schmo would gladly take it)... which is equivalent to a dude in the USA complaining about his job (when people are being enslaved and/or slaughtered in many third-world countries, for genocidal reasons).  

Perspective... is relative.  

We all have reasons to complain... and reasons to be thankful.  

ricardisimo
08-08-2012, 01:17 AM
I understand the point that fans regularly make regarding fans and their exorbitant pay, and I also don't mean to imply that the people who say this are not aware of these facts, but I think it's important to keep in mind a few things about professional athletes and their pay.

To begin with, they are at the pinnacle of their profession, and accordingly get paid better than everybody else. And the pay scale is dictated by the popularity of the sport, so it's kind of the fans' fault for pumping so much money into the game, allowing team owners to offer players more money to keep them from going to other teams.

Another thing to keep in mind is that, for the vast majority of players, they have probably already dedicated a decade or so of their lives to improving themselves athletically before they even enter the league. They strive for years and years to earn a payday that they don't reach until they finish with college football, jeopardizing their bodies (aka their earning potential) for no pay for 2-5 years. And then the window for that pay day itself is narrow, especially with new rookie wage scales. At best, a player probably has about a 10-15 year window during which to earn as much as possible for their life's work.

Not to generalize, but many NFL players have come up from troubled backgrounds where the only means of escape from a life of poverty is the pursue professional sports, and I definitely think that that plays a major role in the financial decisions of professional athletes. They seek to secure the financial future of not only themselves, and not only their immediate family, but their entire extended family, because they want to remove their entire family out of that troubled environment. Obviously this is far from universal among athletes, but it is a factor for many.

Now, with all of that said, yes, $2.7 million is a lot of money, and more than a lot of people will ever see in their entire lives. And yes, athletes should have a secondary skill to fall back on if they can't make it in the NFL or suffer a career ending injury. You can offer up a dozen other counter arguments that I would say "yes, I agree" to as well. But it's also important to understand that professional athletes, like actors and any other person in the entertainment business, function on a completely different compensation paradigm than us mere citizens, so it's not entirely fair to compare your salary to a professional athlete's and conclude that the athlete is just being selfish and greedy.

Are a lot of them selfish and greedy? Undoubtedly. Is Mike Wallace in particular selfish and greedy? Perhaps. But that's certainly far from the case for all athletes, especially the ones that take care of not only their own families, but their communities and charities.

Anyway, that's just my two cents on that topic, so take it as you will.
This argument comes up every year. We did the math in one of these threads last year and figured out that the average NFL player, playing an average number of years in the league, was making less than teachers once you spread their big bucks over the course of their productive years. They play four years, make a ton of dough, then coach high school for $25,000 if they're lucky.

Pay them their money.

Atlanta Dan
08-08-2012, 07:34 AM
This does not sound promising

Gerry Dulac / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The Steelers do not expect Mike Wallace to report to training camp before they depart St. Vincent College Aug. 18, but they have no intention of trading their Pro Bowl wide receiver at any point this season, a team source told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

Wallace has yet to sign a one-year tender worth $2.7 million and the Steelers have not heard from him since training camp began July 25. However, several players remain in contact with him.

The source also said the Steelers will wait several weeks before they decide if they need to sign a veteran free-agent receiver.

The Steelers feel as though they have been more than fair with Wallace because they did not rescind or reduce his one-year tender in June -- which they were entitled to do under the guidelines of the collective bargaining agreement.

But they told Wallace they will not have any further discussions on a potential long-term contract until he signs his tender and reports to the team.

The Steelers are not overly optimistic they can sign Wallace to a long-term deal, but he can still play for them this season and then be labeled a "franchise" or "transition" player in 2013.

Wallace's holdout has upset Coach Mike Tomlin, who is no longer supportive of his big-play receiver, a team source said.

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/source-wallace-not-on-trading-block-for-steelers-647985/

lotas
08-08-2012, 07:34 AM
(In Teddy KGB voice)
"Pay that man his money!" :tt02:

steelfury02
08-08-2012, 08:23 AM
sorry, but there are plenty of people that come from troubled backgrounds that "make it" and that doesn't equate to 2.7 million dollars

there are plenty of people that are at the pinnacle of their professions, i.e. 40 years in education and still not ever seeing six figures

there are plenty of people that slave in steel mills, coal mines, railroads, and work in conditions that cut their life short, and will cause them suffering and pain because of the toxins they are exposed to day in and day out - and they won't ever see the money they have. And that is just in hopes of paying the bills for a family of four.

Do I think all athletes are greedy? No - and I respect the fact they made it from a troubled background - more power to them. But to sit out of work over this type of money, having zero patience - is maddening to the everyday working man. Agree to disagree.

FrancoLambert
08-08-2012, 09:10 AM
sorry, but there are plenty of people that come from troubled backgrounds that "make it" and that doesn't equate to 2.7 million dollars

there are plenty of people that are at the pinnacle of their professions, i.e. 40 years in education and still not ever seeing six figures

there are plenty of people that slave in steel mills, coal mines, railroads, and work in conditions that cut their life short, and will cause them suffering and pain because of the toxins they are exposed to day in and day out - and they won't ever see the money they have. And that is just in hopes of paying the bills for a family of four.

Do I think all athletes are greedy? No - and I respect the fact they made it from a troubled background - more power to them. But to sit out of work over this type of money, having zero patience - is maddening to the everyday working man. Agree to disagree.

:applaudit: Well said, and I agree.

TRH
08-08-2012, 04:42 PM
sorry, but there are plenty of people that come from troubled backgrounds that "make it" and that doesn't equate to 2.7 million dollars

there are plenty of people that are at the pinnacle of their professions, i.e. 40 years in education and still not ever seeing six figures

there are plenty of people that slave in steel mills, coal mines, railroads, and work in conditions that cut their life short, and will cause them suffering and pain because of the toxins they are exposed to day in and day out - and they won't ever see the money they have. And that is just in hopes of paying the bills for a family of four.

Do I think all athletes are greedy? No - and I respect the fact they made it from a troubled background - more power to them. But to sit out of work over this type of money, having zero patience - is maddening to the everyday working man. Agree to disagree.


absolutely true and very well said.

There are many, many people who've came from troubling or poor backgrounds who are working decent jobs, many of whom have gotten more than a few promotions and are doing better than good at living a good and prosperous life.
It kills me to see people on sports forum saying "pay him", " he's only got a few years to make money........", blah, blah, blah.....

You report to camp and take your pay that is offered you when there's no more negotiation left. (which, by the way, is almost 3 freak-in million dollars....we're not talking 12 dollars an hour here...). Then....if you're "not happy" or feel "not appreciated" (i love that one that the agents made up and force upon the media), you go elsewhere next year or play out a huge franchise tag.
There is no "poor baby" here.

Also......you're free to take that 4-year degree and enter the business work force and complete with hundreds for those "standard" jobs, while working stressful 55 hour a week jobs. No one's stopping you from doing that.
Don't worry....your 50, 60, 70K a year job, whatever you find (if your lucky) will eventually add up to a couple mil that you didn't get this year (maybe). Again...thats one year.
If i was Tomlin, i wouldn't be happy either.

fer522
08-08-2012, 05:27 PM
sorry, but there are plenty of people that come from troubled backgrounds that "make it" and that doesn't equate to 2.7 million dollars

there are plenty of people that are at the pinnacle of their professions, i.e. 40 years in education and still not ever seeing six figures

there are plenty of people that slave in steel mills, coal mines, railroads, and work in conditions that cut their life short, and will cause them suffering and pain because of the toxins they are exposed to day in and day out - and they won't ever see the money they have. And that is just in hopes of paying the bills for a family of four.

Do I think all athletes are greedy? No - and I respect the fact they made it from a troubled background - more power to them. But to sit out of work over this type of money, having zero patience - is maddening to the everyday working man. Agree to disagree.

:applaudit: :thumbsup:

Vis
08-08-2012, 05:59 PM
Wallace is as entitled to use any legal free market device at his disposal without worrying about us. Whether his ploy is effective or not isn't the issue.

GoFor7
08-10-2012, 11:13 PM
Seems Wallace is training hard with a personal trainer...

Trainer says Mike Wallace return “has got to be pretty soon”
Posted by Darin Gantt on August 10, 2012, 3:59 PM EDT
St. Louis Rams v Pittsburgh Steelers Getty Images

Mike Wallace isn’t just sitting around, and apparently he’s about to make a move.

The Steelers wide receiver, who hasn’t reported while unhappy with the $2.7 million restricted free agent tender the team put on him, may be close to breaking the stalemate.

Conditioning coach Tom Shaw, who is working with Wallace in Orlando, told Alan Robinson of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review that Wallace wasn’t going to talk to reporters until he showed up at camp.

That, he said, “has got to be pretty soon. [The Steelers] aren’t just going to let him sit out there.”

So far, they have. And they signed fellow wideout Antonio Brown to a $42.5 million spite contract.

But Shaw said the money part of the equation wasn’t as much of an issue as some assume.

Shaw said Wallace’s silence was: “because he gets mad when people write things that are totally false. He doesn’t want a $100 million contract, a $50 million contract. He’s never told anybody that. He knows the Steelers aren’t talking, and he’s not talking.”

“He’s been holding out because he feels he’s given three good years to the Steelers, and you have only so much time to make money [in the NFL],” Shaw added.

The news that Wallace is “fast as lightning right now,” and staying in good condition is good news for the Steelers. But until he actually shows up and these two kiss and make up, it’s little consolation, or help for an offense that could use him.

I also heard somewhere that the 49ers told the media Wallace wanted Fitzgerald money for fan appeasement. Make it look like they were trying to get a high-end receiver when they really had no intention of giving up their first-round pick. Just a rumor though. Can't confirm it.

Does this change anyone's views on Wallace?

Twentyvalve
08-10-2012, 11:28 PM
I agree. But while he does that all of us sub 2 Mill wagers can talk about what he does do. That is why I joined my favorite football forum!

No worries though - Mike Wallace will do what he needs to do. He knows what is best for him more than I. He does not need to worry about me. I sincerely wish him the best with whatever decision he makes.

Wallace is as entitled to use any legal free market device at his disposal without worrying about us. Whether his ploy is effective or not isn't the issue.

zcoop
08-11-2012, 12:29 AM
I agree. But while he does that all of us sub 2 Mill wagers can talk about what he does do. That is why I joined my favorite football forum!

No worries though - Mike Wallace will do what he needs to do. He knows what is best for him more than I. He does not need to worry about me. I sincerely wish him the best with whatever decision he makes.

He'll be in soon.

Atlanta Dan
08-11-2012, 08:52 AM
Seems Wallace is training hard with a personal trainer...

Thanks for the story:drink:

Trib-Review also has the conditioning coach putting out the update on Wallace - maybe the coach set up a conference call in # to get the statement out

Shaw, ending several weeks of silence by the Wallace camp, told the Tribune-Review on Friday that Wallace knows “it’s not a good thing to be out of camp. … The Steelers want him to come to camp. They’re a great organization.”.,..

http://triblive.com/sports/2388632-85/wallace-steelers-shaw-camp-contract-million-receiver-conditioning-report-talking

I was unaware that Wallace's conditioning coach is psrt of his "camp." It used to be the agent was the mouthpiece for the player, but apparently agent Bus Cook has taken contract negotiation media relations to the next level by having the conditioning coach get out the player's story to the media.:noidea:

Assuming coach Shaw has not gone rogue and is speaking for Wallace these quotes are a promising indiaction this mess may be winding down

fastscirocco
08-11-2012, 09:35 AM
Seems like everyone wants to be a "mouthpiece", I think Wallace should speak.

GoFor7
08-11-2012, 10:27 AM
Seems like everyone wants to be a "mouthpiece", I think Wallace should speak.

He won't speak until he reports and gets a long-term extension.

sluggermatt15
08-11-2012, 01:26 PM
He won't speak until he reports and gets a long-term extension.

I'm tired of Wallace acting like a cry baby. Just SHUT UP and do your job.

What would happen if I "sat out" from work after performing well for 12 months straight and not getting a raise?........

I would get FIRED.

GoFor7
08-11-2012, 01:33 PM
I'm tired of Wallace acting like a cry baby. Just SHUT UP and do your job.

What would happen if I "sat out" from work after performing well for 12 months straight and not getting a raise?........

I would get FIRED.

Don't blame Wallace for that, blame the CBA. He's not under contract, so the Steelers can't fine him.

It's probably a good thing he's not talking to the media. Yes there's been a lot of speculation, but imagine how ugly it could get if Wallace opened his mouth and said things like "they don't respect me" or some other garbage.

sluggermatt15
08-11-2012, 02:51 PM
Don't blame Wallace for that, blame the CBA. He's not under contract, so the Steelers can't fine him.

It's probably a good thing he's not talking to the media. Yes there's been a lot of speculation, but imagine how ugly it could get if Wallace opened his mouth and said things like "they don't respect me" or some other garbage.

Even if he complains, there's nothing the Steelers can really do as far as a new contract is concerned. They are up against the salary cap and cannot offer him the $ he wants. Pitt could trade him or have another team make an offer. If Wallace leaves to another team, the Steelers would receive a 1st round pick.

Yes Mike Wallace is being a baby. He refuses to show up to work because he does not have a raise. He is letting all of his teammates down. When a key player is not practicing, that is a problem for the team, let alone the offense. What about all the players who are working VERY hard in practice and in camp? Is it fair to them?

How about to all of the Steelers fans? We want to see our team play at its optimum level. It's sad to see one player potentially drag the entire team down. I just hope Pitt can prove they don't need Wallace to win.

GoFor7
08-11-2012, 03:17 PM
Even if he complains, there's nothing the Steelers can really do as far as a new contract is concerned. They are up against the salary cap and cannot offer him the $ he wants. Pitt could trade him or have another team make an offer. If Wallace leaves to another team, the Steelers would receive a 1st round pick.

All depends on how the deal is structured. I'm no expert on the NFL cap, but Omar Khan will likely find a way to get it done, assuming the deal is reasonable. Remember, so far it's just speculation on what Wallace wants. We've yet to hear exact numbers from him, his agent, or the Steelers and we won't hear them until something gets done.

As for trading Wallace, won't happen. It sets a terrible example that you can just whine and pout your way out of Pittsburgh. As for the return, the Steelers are not guaranteed a first-round pick. That deadline passed a week before the draft. They would get whatever the best offer is in return. If you trade Wallace, you have to get something in return that can help the team right now. For a player that is under a one year tender, that won't happen. If Wallace does not end up signing a long-term deal, the Steelers will have to draft another deep threat next year.

Steelersfan87
08-11-2012, 05:29 PM
sluggermatt, how exactly can Wallace shut up if he's not talking?

Also, the Steelers have plenty of room to offer Wallace big money as far as the 2012 salary cap is concerned. $10 million a year would not be a problem. The salary cap is a tricky thing, but the Steelers have one of the best in the business working out contracts in Omar Khan.

As far as letting his teammates down, nobody has said that publicly. In fact, they've all been very supportive of him.

Finally, there's no way the Steelers will get a 1st round pick for Wallace. If they were going to get a 1st round pick for him, it would have been back in March or April when teams could have signed him. If he signs in free agency next year, the highest compensatory pick is only a 3rd rounder.

pancake
08-11-2012, 07:02 PM
sluggermatt, how exactly can Wallace shut up if he's not talking?

Also, the Steelers have plenty of room to offer Wallace big money as far as the 2012 salary cap is concerned. $10 million a year would not be a problem. The salary cap is a tricky thing, but the Steelers have one of the best in the business working out contracts in Omar Khan.

As far as letting his teammates down, nobody has said that publicly. In fact, they've all been very supportive of him.

Finally, there's no way the Steelers will get a 1st round pick for Wallace. If they were going to get a 1st round pick for him, it would have been back in March or April when teams could have signed him. If he signs in free agency next year, the highest compensatory pick is only a 3rd rounder.

I was wanting to say something, but you covered it completely. :thumbsup:

To go along with the cap, AB's contract counts less than 2 mil under this years cap?

Steelersfan87
08-11-2012, 07:37 PM
I don't recall the exact total figure, but his new extension only added $1.7 million to this year's cap value. When it comes to Wallace, it's also important to keep in mind that his tender is already accounted for in the salary cap, so if he were to sign a new contract, the tender would be torn up and that value would be negated.

Hawaii 5-0
08-11-2012, 09:24 PM
To go along with the cap, AB's contract counts less than 2 mil under this years cap?


Antonio Brown Contract Breakdown

Friday, July 27th, 2012 by Dave Bryan

The believed final numbers are now in on the new 5 year, $42.5 million contract extension that Pittsburgh Steelers wide receiver Antonio Brown agreed to today courtesy of PFT. The numbers are a testament to how good of a contract negotiator that Omar Khan is.

The reported signing bonus of the deal is a very manageable $8.5 million. That breaks down to a $1.7 per year amortized schedule for that alone. Brown also will have a $540,000 base salary in 2012. Left over from his rookie contract is a signing bonus amortized hit of $24,359.00, which means that the 2012 cap hit for Brown should be just $2,264,359 million. Brown was scheduled to count $564,359.00 against the cap this year, so that means that is new cap number increased just $1.7 million on Friday.

In 2013, Brown is scheduled to earn a base salary of $2 million and he also has another $2.5 million roster bonus due as well. This means that his 2013 cap number will be $6.2 million. In 2014 and 2015, Brown is scheduled to earn a base salary in each of those two years of $6 million. That means that his cap hits in both of those years will be $7.7 million. In 2016, his base salary jumps to $8.25 million and he will have a $9.95 million cap hit. In 2017, the final year of the deal, Brown is scheduled to earn a base salary of $8.71 million and that will be the cap hit as well should there not be any restructuring done between now and then.

There is a missing amount of $250,000 that PFT is not accounting for if indeed the contract totals out at $42.5 million. That could be workout bonus in year three or so and I will try to track that down.

The low cap in 2012, means that the Steelers still have enough cap space to get a long-term deal done with restricted free agent Mike Wallace, but the deal will certainly be on their own terms and structure.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/07/antonio-brown-contract-breakdown/

GoFor7
08-11-2012, 10:26 PM
Antonio Brown Contract Breakdown

Friday, July 27th, 2012 by Dave Bryan

The believed final numbers are now in on the new 5 year, $42.5 million contract extension that Pittsburgh Steelers wide receiver Antonio Brown agreed to today courtesy of PFT. The numbers are a testament to how good of a contract negotiator that Omar Khan is.

The reported signing bonus of the deal is a very manageable $8.5 million. That breaks down to a $1.7 per year amortized schedule for that alone. Brown also will have a $540,000 base salary in 2012. Left over from his rookie contract is a signing bonus amortized hit of $24,359.00, which means that the 2012 cap hit for Brown should be just $2,264,359 million. Brown was scheduled to count $564,359.00 against the cap this year, so that means that is new cap number increased just $1.7 million on Friday.

In 2013, Brown is scheduled to earn a base salary of $2 million and he also has another $2.5 million roster bonus due as well. This means that his 2013 cap number will be $6.2 million. In 2014 and 2015, Brown is scheduled to earn a base salary in each of those two years of $6 million. That means that his cap hits in both of those years will be $7.7 million. In 2016, his base salary jumps to $8.25 million and he will have a $9.95 million cap hit. In 2017, the final year of the deal, Brown is scheduled to earn a base salary of $8.71 million and that will be the cap hit as well should there not be any restructuring done between now and then.

There is a missing amount of $250,000 that PFT is not accounting for if indeed the contract totals out at $42.5 million. That could be workout bonus in year three or so and I will try to track that down.

The low cap in 2012, means that the Steelers still have enough cap space to get a long-term deal done with restricted free agent Mike Wallace, but the deal will certainly be on their own terms and structure.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/07/antonio-brown-contract-breakdown/

Some people in the media must not be aware of this. I've heard some of those morons say that because of Brown's contract they won't be able to pay Wallace. They think Brown's cap hit this year is around $8 mil.

pancake
08-12-2012, 02:52 PM
Thanks Hawaii for the breakdown, and it shows there is room for both AB and MW under the cap.

Hawaii 5-0
08-12-2012, 05:46 PM
Thanks Hawaii for the breakdown, and it shows there is room for both AB and MW under the cap.

there is room under the cap for Mike Wallace also, especially when we have Omar Khan of the best contract negotiators and salary-cap experts working for us.

however, Wallace needs to get his behind into camp as the window is closing everyday since the Steelers will not negotiate a new long-term contract once the season begins.

TRH
08-12-2012, 06:54 PM
Some people in the media must not be aware of this. I've heard some of those morons say that because of Brown's contract they won't be able to pay Wallace. They think Brown's cap hit this year is around $8 mil.



I think what a number of people mean is that its not that we can't sign Wallace too.........the issue is that since we signed Brown, will the Steelers want to give all that money to 2 WR's when there's a whole lot of other places they could use to spend the money. We'll be looking at a number of positions where we'll have to come up with ALOT of money.

GoFor7
08-12-2012, 06:59 PM
I think what a number of people mean is that its not that we can't sign Wallace too.........the issue is that since we signed Brown, will the Steelers want to give all that money to 2 WR's when there's a whole lot of other places they could use to spend the money. We'll be looking at a number of positions where we'll have to come up with ALOT of money.

That doesn't explain why they think Browns cap hit is close to $8 mil. I think Clayton even mentioned the Steelers have only around $2.5 mil in cap space left this year. :noidea:

Steelersfan87
08-12-2012, 07:57 PM
That cap space number is actually probably pretty close to where they are, but it doesn't factor in a number of things, such as Wallace's $2.7 million tender or the $1.5 million in veteran cap credits that Kevin Colbert has already made clear that they will use this year. That's actually plenty of room for a wisely structured 5 year, $50 million contract or so. Consider that Antonio Brown's cap hit for this year is less than Wallace's tender alone.

BGSU A Dub
08-13-2012, 10:43 PM
At this point, who's Mike Wallace?

He sure isn't the guy I thought he was.

stuck_in_VA
08-14-2012, 09:28 AM
Per Adam Schefter, Mike Wallace to return by Week 1.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp12/story/_/id/8267770/mike-wallace-pittsburgh-steelers-back-week-1-sources-say

Doesn't give him much, if any, time to negotiate a deal before the season starts.

Lokki
08-14-2012, 10:26 AM
Hopefully that is true. I'm ready for the distraction to end.

jasonpirkle
08-14-2012, 11:15 AM
Coming in week one makes no sense. Wont have a firm grasp of the new offense. And won't be able to negotiate a new deal as the steelers won't once the reg season starts. I don't get it.

GoFor7
08-14-2012, 11:44 AM
Coming in week one makes no sense. Wont have a firm grasp of the new offense. And won't be able to negotiate a new deal as the steelers won't once the reg season starts. I don't get it.

Wallace might not need to have a firm grasp of the new offense to play in week 1. The only thing he will need to do is go deep. That opens up the short passing game and makes it easier to run the ball. The opposing defense cannot ignore Wallace, even in an offense he's not completely familiar with. Only takes one deep throw to blow the lid off a defense.

As for negotiations, that all depends on when he comes in and how long it would take to work out a deal. You also have to consider that Wallace may want to test the free agent market next year and doesn't want a new deal from the Steelers.

Steelersfan87
08-14-2012, 01:01 PM
If he shows up for the first practice after the next preseason game (when camp is over), that will give him abour 3 weeks to acclimate himself to the offense and to negotiate a contract.

teegre
08-14-2012, 01:55 PM
Coming in week one makes no sense. Wont have a firm grasp of the new offense. And won't be able to negotiate a new deal as the steelers won't once the reg season starts. I don't get it.

True: the Steelers don't negotiate during the season.  

BUT... he needs 30 seconds to sign his tender; 30 more seconds to sign his new deal (5 years, $50 million); and another 30 seconds to learn his set of plays for game one (deep, deep, deep again, repeat).  Thus, as long as he shows up 2 minutes before game one, all shall be fine.  

rcoplien
08-14-2012, 02:03 PM
We need Wallace. Please put the money in and sign him!!!!!

Hawaii 5-0
08-14-2012, 04:22 PM
We need Wallace. Please put the money in and sign him!!!!!

I think everyone agrees that we are a better team with Mike Wallace, the question becomes how much of the salary cap should we allot to him?

the Steelers are currently offering him $10 million/year for 5 years, would you want to pay him even more than that?

Steelersfan87
08-14-2012, 04:47 PM
The dollar value is less important to the salary cap impact than other aspects of the contract like signing bonuses and guaranteed money. Long term deals are typically structured with the largest cap hits coming in the 3rd and 4th years of 5 year deals with the actual dollar value of the first two years being small. For example, Antonio Brown's base salary for 2012 is only $540,000. But he got an $8.5 million signing bonus, so he's actually getting $9 this year, but because the signing bonus is distributed for cap purposes over the length of the contract, his cap hit this year is only around $2.25 million. In the second year, his base salary will be $2 million, but he'll also be getting a $2.5 million roster bonus.

If Clayton's suggestion that Wallace is looking for $11.5 million per year is true, they could give him that under a wisely planned contract, but I don't know if they would be willing to. After the holdout, especially, I don't know.

Hawaii 5-0
08-14-2012, 05:03 PM
If Clayton's suggestion that Wallace is looking for $11.5 million per year is true, they could give him that under a wisely planned contract, but I don't know if they would be willing to.

looks like the Steelers are not willing to give him that $ figure to me...

GoFor7
08-14-2012, 05:17 PM
Was just watching NBC Sports Talk - Mike Florio seems to think Wallace will hold out into the regular season. Not sure if he doesn't care about the ESPN report or if he's just trolling. He's another personality that doesn't think the Ravens will miss a beat without Suggs, so take his word with a grain of salt.

pancake
08-14-2012, 05:18 PM
looks like the Steelers are not willing to give him that $ figure to me...

Maybe somewhere in the middle...

I know a lot of people don't want that much money tied up in WR, but face it we are a Passing team...

sluggermatt15
08-14-2012, 07:29 PM
sluggermatt, how exactly can Wallace shut up if he's not talking?

Also, the Steelers have plenty of room to offer Wallace big money as far as the 2012 salary cap is concerned. $10 million a year would not be a problem. The salary cap is a tricky thing, but the Steelers have one of the best in the business working out contracts in Omar Khan.

As far as letting his teammates down, nobody has said that publicly. In fact, they've all been very supportive of him.

Finally, there's no way the Steelers will get a 1st round pick for Wallace. If they were going to get a 1st round pick for him, it would have been back in March or April when teams could have signed him. If he signs in free agency next year, the highest compensatory pick is only a 3rd rounder.

"Put up or shut up". I mean he needs to quit his pouty attitude and show up to work. Yes it hasn't been made public, but honestly, he is still hurting his teammates. They haven't publicly complained about it because that would draw a lot of attention and controversy. I really wouldn't like the media all over the Steelers camp for another story that gets blown out of proportion...

GoFor7
08-14-2012, 07:31 PM
"Put up or shut up". I mean he needs to quit his pouty attitude and show up to work. Yes it hasn't been made public, but honestly, he is still hurting his teammates. They haven't publicly complained about it because that would draw a lot of attention and controversy. I really wouldn't like the media all over the Steelers camp for another story that gets blown out of proportion...

That's like asking a baby not to cry....

sluggermatt15
08-14-2012, 07:37 PM
That's like asking a baby not to cry....

Not trying to butt heads with you. It's just my opinion that Wallace is acting a little selfish by holding out. I'm not hating on him. Guy's a great player on a great team. Does he deserve more $? Yes he certainly does. I have no problem with that. I want Wallace to show up and do what he does best, kick some butt on the field!

pancake
08-14-2012, 09:10 PM
Not trying to butt heads with you. It's just my opinion that Wallace is acting a little selfish by holding out. I'm not hating on him. Guy's a great player on a great team. Does he deserve more $? Yes he certainly does. I have no problem with that. I want Wallace to show up and do what he does best, kick some butt on the field!

I want him in camp too, but I can't blame him for wanting to get the most money he can...

Steelersfan87
08-14-2012, 09:18 PM
Nobody is arguing that he is not being selfish, but this is the one primary opportunity for athletes to BE selfish; namely, their second contract, typically their highest earning potential.

sluggermatt15
08-15-2012, 07:59 PM
Nobody is arguing that he is not being selfish, but this is the one primary opportunity for athletes to BE selfish; namely, their second contract, typically their highest earning potential.

I understand and agree. Wallace deserves the $. At some point he will have to show up. I hope he's aware of that one.

ricardisimo
08-16-2012, 01:39 AM
He's going to get his money whether he shows up or not. V-Jax is not exactly in the poor house right now, and neither will Wallace be.

pete74
08-16-2012, 03:41 AM
he will be here and he will get his contract. as long as he will agree on a good fair price i belive he will be signed before the start of the season

Galax Steeler
08-16-2012, 04:27 AM
he will be here and he will get his contract. as long as he will agree on a good fair price i belive he will be signed before the start of the season

This, he will get in here and get his reps in before week one.

teegre
08-16-2012, 09:23 AM
He's going to get his money whether he shows up or not. V-Jax is not exactly in the poor house right now, and neither will Wallace be.

True.  
But, VJ was a free agent who was franchise tagged.  Thus, he didn't lose nearly as much money by holding out.  Conversely, Wallace is a RFA... so, he is losing out on more money, and will take longer (or a bigger contract) in order to recoup it.  

VJ
Played the final six games: $3.75 million (a loss of $6.25 million from not signing the $10 million per year deal).  

5 years, $55 million.  

Total after six years:  $58.25 million.  

Average after six years:  $9.7 million.  

Summation:  A loss of $300,000 per year... not too bad.  ($9.7 versus $10)

WALLACE
Plays the final six games: $1 million (a loss of $1.7 million from the RFA tender, but also a loss of $9 million from not signing the $10 million per year deal).  

5 years, $55 million.  

Total after six years:  $56 million.  

Average after six years:  $9.3 million.  

Summation:  A loss of $700,000 per year... not bad, but not great ($9.3 versus $10)

BUT, if he only gets 5 year, $50 million...  

Total after six years:  $51 million.  

Average after six years:  $8.5 million.  

Summation:  A loss of $1.5 million per year... huge loss ($8.5 versus $10)

ricardisimo
08-16-2012, 02:22 PM
Look, it's come up numerous times already in this thread: Dan Snyder could easily give him Fitzgerald money, and then all of your calculations mean squat. Not only could it happen, but I say it's highly likely. We grow wide receivers on trees here, while other teams can't even buy them... but they can certainly try. Mike Wallace will be a coveted prize next year for some WR-hungry team.

Steelersfan87
08-16-2012, 03:07 PM
Not if he's franchised.

teegre
08-16-2012, 04:29 PM
Look, it's come up numerous times already in this thread: Dan Snyder could easily give him Fitzgerald money, and then all of your calculations mean squat. Not only could it happen, but I say it's highly likely. We grow wide receivers on trees here, while other teams can't even buy them... but they can certainly try. Mike Wallace will be a coveted prize next year for some WR-hungry team.

But the point is still the same:  

In order to recoup the money he's going to lose, he will HAVE to have someone pay him a "Snyder" amount. Otherwise, in the long run, he will LOSE money.  

[You seem annoyed and/or tired of this discussion, and you need not read further: I've stated my point, and can end here.  But, just in case... I shall go on.]

Wallace will HAVE to get AT LEAST $12 million per year to recoup the money that he'll lose by sitting out.  I am more of a "bird in the hand" type of person... meaning that in the long run, he can get the same amount of money by signing NOW with Pittsburgh, as he would by singing a "Snyder" deal next year.  Plus, there are fewer & fewer Snyder types of owners out there... and Snyder already signed Garçon to a mega-deal.  

Remember, VJ actually makes $300,000 less than he would have made if he had accepted SD's offer.  

Re-cap:  
Sign now.  Happy.  [Up to him]

Sign for a little more next year.  Loses money.  A la VJ.   [Most likely]

Sign for a "Snyder" deal next year.  Very happy.  [Not nearly as likely, but quite possible.]  

pete74
08-16-2012, 06:54 PM
wallace will be playing for the steelers for a while. there is no way the steelers are letting him go, he will be signed for 5 years

pancake
08-16-2012, 07:04 PM
wallace will be playing for the steelers for a while. there is no way the steelers are letting him go, he will be signed for 5 years

I like the way you think! :applaudit:

pancake
08-20-2012, 02:15 PM
This is the week mike shows up...

pete74
08-20-2012, 04:14 PM
Ike says next week andsince Wallace is staying at his house in Florida I'm going to belive he probably knows best. I can't wait to get him back. Our offense will be scary good with Wallace and Brown

Hawaii 5-0
08-22-2012, 02:02 PM
This is the week mike shows up...


have you heard, mike wallace is almost back? :applaudit: :chuckle:

TRH
08-22-2012, 02:04 PM
....yeah. The lazy a** will skip all practice and pre-season to come sign a check and play in the games. Mike....you better watch out for the bad karma that will surely be coming your way

pancake
08-22-2012, 02:06 PM
have you heard, mike wallace is almost back? :applaudit: :chuckle:

What??? I haven't heard... :chuckle:

steelpower12
08-22-2012, 02:07 PM
I think there is a thread on this?

pancake
08-22-2012, 02:13 PM
I think there is a thread on this?

Come on Dude, just let it go...

Lets talk about some Steeler football... :tt04:

MACH1
08-22-2012, 02:16 PM
I think there is a thread on this?

Maybe you should run off and start another one on the very same shit. Oh wait :doh:

pete74
08-22-2012, 02:50 PM
....yeah. The lazy a** will skip all practice and pre-season to come sign a check and play in the games. Mike....you better watch out for the bad karma that will surely be coming your way
No he held out so he wouldn't get hurt and wouldn't get his long term contract in Pittsburgh. He will be back next week and he will get his contract.

pancake
08-22-2012, 03:11 PM
No he held out so he wouldn't get hurt and wouldn't get his long term contract in Pittsburgh. He will be back next week and he will get his contract.

:thumbsup: :tt02:

Buddha Bus
08-22-2012, 04:42 PM
Maybe you should run off and start another one on the very same shit. Oh wait :doh:

http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/2645-brilliant.jpg


It'll be a few moments though. His Head Start class only has one computer from 1986.

Hawaii 5-0
08-23-2012, 12:55 AM
Steelers: Mike Wallace’s Quiet Holdout was Completely Overblown

http://steelblitz.com/wp-content/themes/u-design/scripts/timthumb.php?src=http://steelblitz.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Mike-wallace.jpg&w=570&h=172&zc=1&q=90

Many fans have had their opinion on Mike Wallace changed over this off-season. Wallace has held out for the entire 2012 Steelers training camp in an effort to get a new long-term contract. Wallace’s contract has held plenty of headlines during the off-season. Howver, Wallace did almost exactly what we want an athlete do if things come to a holdout situation. There are the athletes that talk about what is going on and complain about not getting a new deal; Wallace didn’t talk at all. There are the players that demand to be traded and do so in the media; Wallace didn’t do this either. In fact, Wallace didn’t do much of anything during his holdout other than stay quiet and workout.

Now I know what you are thinking: Wallace did talk, he wanted Larry Fitzgerald money, right? Wrong. Matt Barrows of the Sacramento Bee reported that Wallace was looking for “Larry Fitzgerald money.” Barrows runs a 49ers blog for the Sacromento Bee, so what does he know about Wallace? Probably nothing. What was his source for this information? An un-named NFL source. Un-named, to protect their identity, but likely more so because they don’t exist. If Ed Bouchette, of the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, said Wallace wanted “Fitz Money” it would be believeable, but that’s because Bouchette is a Steelers beat reporter. When an unknown reporter from Sacremento talks about Steelers players it should, in my opinion, go unnoticed.

Then we had the franchise tag talk. The only reason Wallace would holdout is if he felt the Steelers contract offer was unfair. That offer was reported to be in the area of 5 years $50 million (guaranteed money unknown, but speculated in the $15 million range). So why would the Steelers franchise Wallace by giving him a 1 year contract worth $12 million completely guranteed. Remember the Steelers cap issues could stretch into the 2013 offseason and there is no way they would have the money to give Wallace $12 million next season. The only reason for the Steelers to discuss franchising Wallace right now would be as leverage in negotiations. The likely-hood of it actually happening is about as close to zero percent as you can get.

Next there was the trade rumors. First, the Steelers were trading Mike Wallace for fellow holdout Dwayne Bowe. Then they were looking to swap Wallace for yet another holdout in runningback Maurice Jones-Drew. Jones-Drew was the leading runner in 2011, but is 27 and wants a deal close to Chris Johnson’s 4 year $53 million contract. Thats, likely, more money than Wallace would get and Jones-Drew is older and plays a position with a shorter shelf-life than wide receiver. Next, the Steelers were ready to trade Wallace for a fourth round pick, reported again by someone no one has ever heard of, but again that makes absolutely no sense. Wallace is one of the best young player in the NFL and if he leaves as a restricted free agent next year the Steelers will get a third round compensatory pick. So why would they trade him for a fourth? They wouldn’t. There were fans clammoring for a first round pick in exchange for Wallace, but while he was an unrestricted free agent any team in the league could have had him for a first round pick and no one gave him a contract offer. Many people forget the value of first round picks in the NFL.

It had just got to the most intense part of Wallace’s holdout, in terms of fans turning on the receiver, when it was reported that Wallace had signed a 5 year $42.5 million deal. However, that report was correct, but they had the wrong receiver’s name. Antonio Brown inked a deal with those exact terms just a few days after these rumors.

Yesterday reports came out that Wallace would be in to sign his tender this weekend. That report was from Ed Bouchette which means it should be compltely believed by all of Steeler Nation and is great news for an offense that needs more playmakers (especially with injuries plaguing the team already). However, another rumor spread like wild fire yesterday. First that Wallace was back in Pittsburgh, Ike Taylor says that is incorrect and has been in contact with Wallace all off-season so I’ll take his word for it. Then that Wallace had already signed, also false.

For having one of the queiter holdouts in NFL, maybe even Pro-Sports, history Wallace has sparked hundreds of rumors. Most of them have been completely untrue; the problem for Wallace, however, is that most of these rumors were seen and discussed in such detail that most fans seen them as 100% truth. Fans have turned their backs on Wallace and a lot of reasoning has been generated by untrue or made-up rumors.

When it comes down to it Wallace’s holdout was completely overblown by the national media who uses even the smallest story to drum up drama and make a headline. Wallace has done exactly what he wanted to do with this holdout. He avoided training camp and getting injured. He will now have a few days (depending when he arrives at the Steelers team facilities) to sign a long-term deal before his first practice. I’ve speculated this entire time that Wallace’s reason for holding out was to play 2012 under a long-term contract rather than playing under a one year deal where an injury could derail his career and lose him millions of dollars. Could it be that Wallace held out, a bit for money, but also to make sure he would ink a long-term deal in Pittsburgh? Yes it’s possible, but by most fan’s accounts Wallace is a selfish, bad teammate, who is all about the money. I guess I just don’t see it that way, but thats the great thing about sports we all have our opinions hence why sports banter shows like PTI and Around the Horn have done as well as they have.

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/steelers_mike_wallaces_quiet_holdout_was_completel y_overblown/11521063