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View Full Version : Ravens have better defense than Steelers, even without Suggs...


GoFor7
08-02-2012, 11:19 AM
More offseason love for yinz Stillers. This time from Adam Schein.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82af7ec8/article/busting-preseason-myths-about-steelers-broncos-jets-more

The Myth: Pittsburgh is Pittsburgh, and will be a top-tier contender.

The Truth: The Steelers have issues and look like a third-place team.

I respect coach Mike Tomlin. But the Pittsburgh Steelers have some major question marks. First of all, I'm not convinced the shotgun marriage between new offensive coordinator Todd Haley and quarterback Ben Roethlisberger will work. What do you think NFL Network's cameras will capture on Thursday, Oct. 11, when Big Ben gets to the sideline after holding onto the ball too long against the Tennessee Titans? Have you studied the combustible Haley and Roethlisberger through the years?

Meanwhile, receiver Mike Wallace isn't in training camp. He wants Larry Fitzgerald-type money. The Steelers (wisely) won't give it to him. This situation can't be spun with the argument that Wallace knows the Steelers' system and won't be hurt by missing time -- Haley is implementing a new offense, after all.

Furthermore, running back Rashard Mendenhall is hurt. Do you trust Isaac Redman and Jonathan Dwyer? I loved the selections of guard David DeCastro and offensive tackle Mike Adams in April's draft, but can you bank on two rookie offensive linemen?

Receiver Hines Ward is on TV. Linebacker James Farrior has left the building. Safety Troy Polamalu is older.

The Baltimore Ravens are the team to beat in the AFC North. Baltimore has a more imposing defense (even with the injury to Terrell Suggs) and a better running attack than its arch rivals in Pittsburgh.

The Cincinnati Bengals are legit. Retaining both coordinators (Jay Gruden on offense and Mike Zimmer on defense) in the offseason was huge for growth and continuity. Zimmer always gets his units to overachieve. Quarterback Andy Dalton and receiver A.J. Green will continue to blossom in Year 2. Right now, on Aug. 1, the Steelers have more issues than the Bengals.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-02-2012, 11:28 AM
Ive never heard of Schein before, but he seems like a Skip Bayless wannabe that writes something controversial to get press. I think he is leapfrogging the bungles ahead of the steelers a bit too quickly.

teegre
08-02-2012, 11:28 AM
So... Ray Ray got younger?... and Ed Reed's concussion problems are all cleared up?  How is their defense any younger & healthier?  

Atlanta Dan
08-02-2012, 11:28 AM
Consider the source of this flame bait - until he joined NFL.com this is his background

Adam Schein hosts the "Sirius Blitz" on Sirius NFL Radio from 11-3 ET. He also co-hosts "Loudmouths" on Sports Net New York every weeknight at 6 ET. He is a weekly columnist, files weekly video reports and makes NFL picks "video style" for FOXSports.com.

http://msn.foxsports.com/writer/Adam_Schein

No explanation how he can ignore Suggs being out while Reed and Lewis have the same age issues that are always thrown at the Steelers

StainlessStill
08-02-2012, 11:35 AM
I like how they are NOW using our "old guy" departures AGAINST US! Last year, it was "The Steelers are too old. Hines Ward is too slow and needs to retire. James Farrior is 36, a shell of what he once was. Old and slow...." but yet, NOW it's "The Steelers lose veterans Hines Ward and James Farrior, what ever would they do!"

I love the part where this author is reaching for STRAWS to make Pittsburgh look ill in every sense of the word. For no apparent reason: "Troy Polamalu is older." Lmao, Ed f*cking Reed is not only an injury MACHINE, but he didn't even show his FACE one time in Ravens camp and is practically the SAME AGE as Troy and been in the league longer (drafted in 2002; Troy in 2003.)

The Steelers lose aging LB Farrior and will now become the 32nd ranked defense because of it, but the Ravens lose THEE most fierce defensive competitor in the NFL with Terrell Suggs and everything is just FINE in Ratbird land?

Not to mention we rolled, thumped and ABUSED Cincinnati in our second meeting last year at Heinz Field, yet, WE have more issue's than the Bungholes with their marquee players only entering their SECOND season with the team. All a CROCK...

....a CROCK OF SHIT. I can't take these articles and reading training camp notes anymore. It's time to rip faces. Severely disrespected in every way, shape or form in that article.

Get ready for a Lombardi run, boys. We're going to go about it the NASTY way....

GoFor7
08-02-2012, 11:40 AM
No explanation how he can ignore Suggs being out while Reed and Lewis have the same age issues that are always thrown at the Steelers

I think one reason the Raven's issues on defense are being dismissed or downplayed is because people in the media can't get over the fact that Flacco statistically outplayed Brady in the AFCCG. In their minds, Flacco will win high-scoring shootouts and will offset any problems the Raven's defense have. Personally, I'm not sure why the best QB ever would let it come down to a dropped pass and a missed FG. If Flacco is so great, why didn't he just drop 35 points on that crappy Patriot defense? And with Brady having a bad game, there was no pressure on Flacco to keep up with him. Also keep in mind they barely made it past the Texans the week before.

Look at the first half of the Raven's 2012 schedule. What are the chances they are a game or two below .500 going into their week 8 bye?

StainlessStill
08-02-2012, 11:50 AM
I think one reason the Raven's issues on defense are being dismissed or downplayed is because people in the media can't get over the fact that Flacco statistically outplayed Brady in the AFCCG. In their minds, Flacco will win high-scoring shootouts and will offset any problems the Raven's defense have. Personally, I'm not sure why the best QB ever would let it come down to a dropped pass and a missed FG. If Flacco is so great, why didn't he just drop 35 points on that crappy Patriot defense? And with Brady having a bad game, there was no pressure on Flacco to keep up with him. Also keep in mind they barely made it past the Texans the week before.

Look at the first half of the Raven's 2012 schedule. What are the chances they are a game or two below .500 going into their week 8 bye?

I truly do feel that the Baltimore Ravens are one of the most OVERRATED teams entering a season in quite some time. We were said to have a "down year" and it's "over" for us, yet, we STILL finished 12-4 and had every bit of a chance to win the AFC NORTH despite getting swept by the Raturds.

That's what's so hysterical to me. The Ravens SWEEP the entire AFC North but yet, it took them to Week 17 to finally win the division. Why? Because they were as inconsistent as ANY OTHER bad football team in the league.

They go out and look like straight sissies against teams like the Titans, Seahawks and Chargers (even Arizona kicked their ass at one point before Baltimore got every yellow flag in their favor....) If it wasn't for a BLATANT Torrey Smith pushoff against William Gay, the Steelers get the first round BYE and things could have been different.

Flacco's performance against the Texans in the Divisional Playoffs was so embarrassing that even I winced a handful of times judging by how PUTRID Flacco rounded up his troops.

I know, I know, he's the best QB in the league and deserves elite money. He couldn't even out-perform Mark Sanchez in week 2 of the 2010 season. That was ANOTHER disastrous performance. He had plenty. Yet, the media CROWNS him.

wera176
08-02-2012, 12:06 PM
Well, I for one LOVE seeing this stuff in print. :wink02:

Keep printing it boys, we'll keep hanging it in the locker room.....


The Steelers never seem to do well when they are supposed to, but when they get disrespected and looked-over, all they do is get rings. Really big ones, oh, and that trophy named after some coach from Green Bay...

:hatsoff:

Bayz101
08-02-2012, 12:20 PM
In order for them to have a better defense than us now, they'd of had to of had one before hand. I'm pretty sure there defensive coordinator was smarter than our offensive coordinator, and that's why we struggled. Besides, who was number one?

Steelerfreak58
08-02-2012, 12:34 PM
SPORTS NEWS 24 hours a day 7 days a week on multiple channels, web, satellite radio, blogs, phones, tweets, txts.... They have to come up with bullshit to talk about if they didn't they wouldn't have jobs.

INFORMATION (what the "NEWS" used to be) is educational and informative the shit they throw out now is just plain silly.

Fire Arians
08-02-2012, 12:42 PM
he's only saying that because ray lewis will stab him for saying the steelers D is better.

StainlessStill
08-02-2012, 12:56 PM
Besides, who was number one?

We were #1 in total defense but yet, ranked in the BOTTOM HALF of the leauge in the turnover ratio. How does that happen? That's how GOOD we are as a unit. Mix in the fact that we lost most of our fierce outside linebackers for more than half of the season and we STILL ranked #1.

Imagine having Woodley (who won't be stopped) at full strength to go along with the rest of our defense and then actually being Pittsburgh-like and creating turnoers and getting after the QB with tallied sacks? If we can do that, we'd be even MORE dangerous than the 2008 squad and they were seemingly UNSTOPPABLE.

Only this time around, it looks like the Steelers offense has had enough. They are going to RIP PEOPLE APART.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-02-2012, 01:00 PM
I still question how tough the Steelers will be up the middle. Timmons I am confident in, but Foote and an aged and injured Hampton I think can be upgraded. Hopefully McLendon and Ta'amu can solve 1 issue.

I still defer to the Ravens until we prove it on the field this season. They got us 2 times last year. The Bengals are improved, but Andy Dalton is now going to outduel Ben ????

StainlessStill
08-02-2012, 01:13 PM
I still question how tough the Steelers will be up the middle. Timmons I am confident in, but Foote and an aged and injured Hampton I think can be upgraded. Hopefully McLendon and Ta'amu can solve 1 issue.

I still defer to the Ravens until we prove it on the field this season. They got us 2 times last year. The Bengals are improved, but Andy Dalton is now going to outduel Ben ????

I'm not worried about our backers WHATSOEVER. Our 3-4 is built from the inside out. If you ask me, we have one of the best young core of a defensive line in the leauge. Ziggy looks PRIMED for a breakout. McClendon is an absolute monster. Keisel is coming off one of his best seasons as a Steeler and Ironhead Heyward is bulldozing people left and right in camp, let alone Ta'amu and Hampton in rotation. I'm telling you, if this d-line lives up to its potential, then guys like Timmons is going to BLOW SHIT UP. Watch it.

TRH
08-02-2012, 01:21 PM
funny how you keep seeing stories about OUR defense's age........while Ed Reed and Ray Lewis are nearing senior citizen status. At least keep the stories fair and say they're both aging.

The Haley/Ben thing just keeps getting blown up and flamed by the media only. Its absurd.

I do agree that the Ravens running back attack is better than ours. As a main back, Rice wipes the floor with an even healthy Mendenhall. As a number two, i like Isaac Redman. I even think he can shine as a number 1.

GoFor7
08-02-2012, 01:21 PM
I still question how tough the Steelers will be up the middle. Timmons I am confident in, but Foote and an aged and injured Hampton I think can be upgraded. Hopefully McLendon and Ta'amu can solve 1 issue.

I still defer to the Ravens until we prove it on the field this season. They got us 2 times last year. The Bengals are improved, but Andy Dalton is now going to outduel Ben ????

I would agree with you if Suggs wasn't injured. Offenses have to use two or three guys to stop him when the Ravens rush the passer. Paul Kruger is a high school player compared to Suggs.

They have to face a lot of pro-bowl caliber QBs this year. Regardless of how good Webb and Smith are in the backfield, if the Ravens defense can't establish a pass rush they're going to be picked apart. And a lighter Ray-Ray up front won't help them stop the run.

stb_steeler
08-02-2012, 01:33 PM
More offseason love for yinz Stillers. This time from Adam Schein.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82af7ec8/article/busting-preseason-myths-about-steelers-broncos-jets-more

And yet he fails to mention Bens shoulder injury....:doh:

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-02-2012, 01:48 PM
I'm not worried about our backers WHATSOEVER. Our 3-4 is built from the inside out. If you ask me, we have one of the best young core of a defensive line in the leauge. Ziggy looks PRIMED for a breakout. McClendon is an absolute monster. Keisel is coming off one of his best seasons as a Steeler and Ironhead Heyward is bulldozing people left and right in camp, let alone Ta'amu and Hampton in rotation. I'm telling you, if this d-line lives up to its potential, then guys like Timmons is going to BLOW SHIT UP. Watch it.

Larry Foote is now in his 11th season and backup caliber ILB. Sylvester is still unproven and a project. I think we are hoping that Brandon Johnson shows something at ILB or they can move Timmons and Spence in as a tandem by next season.

pancake
08-02-2012, 01:55 PM
I will give them the better running game, that's it.

StainlessStill
08-02-2012, 02:11 PM
Larry Foote is now in his 11th season and backup caliber ILB. Sylvester is still unproven and a project. I think we are hoping that Brandon Johnson shows something at ILB or they can move Timmons and Spence in as a tandem by next season.

I'm confident in Foote. He knows this defense inside and out and has incredible timing. What he lacks in physical demeanor, he makes up for it in smarts. He times the blitz better than most of our backers ever did.

Worlids is starting to REALLY piss me off. He's becoming the next Alonzo Jackson and is still injured for what it seems to be forever. He's missing his chance to make an impact and is entering bust status.

Watching that New England game last year, Carter stood out to me. I liked what I saw. His first step is very quick and cat-like so I'm eager to see him in action with a bigger body at work. Looks like they are even using Sylvester as a project at OLB so the more work for favorites like Sylvester, the more he can see the field and give him his shot. I'd like for Harrison and Woodley to keep our rush edge in tact.

I'd hate to see Timmons being shoved out to the outside of his natural position and be used as a depth player if Harrison or Woodley get injured. Worlids or Carter NEED to provide us with solid depth. Timmons MUST solidify the middle and make it his niche and his home. If he does, big things could happen.

Vis
08-02-2012, 02:16 PM
I love Adam Schein. He's entertaining on Sirius. I don't agree with him on this but so what? At the end of each season he mocks his own incorrect opinions. It's all entertainment.

Fire Arians
08-02-2012, 02:21 PM
Worlids is starting to REALLY piss me off. He's becoming the next Alonzo Jackson and is still injured for what it seems to be forever. He's missing his chance to make an impact and is entering bust status.


same here, 2 years in a row he's had golden opportunities to show the coaching staff what he has, and he's always out with a sore vagina. im about ready to say cut his ass if he can't play

LVSteelersfan
08-02-2012, 03:01 PM
Worilds has a very good chance of getting cut if what I hear from camp is true. I am glad to hear that Carter is kicking butt. Worilds just may be the odd man out if he can't get his injured butt on the field. I had high hopes for him when he was drafted but not every player is going to make it in the NFL. Doesn't matter what team you get drafted on. It is anyone's best guess if someone will be a star or a bust.

GoFor7
08-02-2012, 03:06 PM
Does Worlids do stupid stuff in the offseason that causes all these injuries or is he just one of those players that always has an injury bug?

Fire Arians
08-02-2012, 03:41 PM
wrist injury, maybe he was jacking it too hard

Edman
08-02-2012, 04:05 PM
The Ravens have been the media darling of the AFC North for a while now. Now that they've finally won the division last year, Raven mania is in full gear. So it doesn't really surprise me. I probably go so far to say they are the new San Diego Chargers. A team with consistently overblown talent/ability (Five Players in the Top 22 in 2012's Top 100) but constantly falls on it's face. Not saying the Ravens don't have ability, but they are choke artists. Good enough to win, not good enough to win big.

They think sweeping the Steelers last year magically legitimizes them and erases the fact that 'Grandpa Lewis is still the only player on that team with a ring... from over a Decade ago. I hope they hold onto that. Because as long as Average Joe is there, they're not sniffing the Super Bowl.

As for Jason Worilds, I've given up on the bum. He's Alonzo Jackson II. He's done after this camp. Chris Carter is really stepping up and working, though. So it's not a complete loss.

Edman
08-02-2012, 04:11 PM
As for the article...seen and heard it all before. Our boys will do their usual thing and respond accordingly.

GoFor7
08-02-2012, 04:28 PM
The Ravens have been the media darling of the AFC North for a while now. Now that they've finally won the division last year, Raven mania is in full gear. So it doesn't really surprise me. I probably go so far to say they are the new San Diego Chargers. A team with consistently overblown talent/ability (Five Players in the Top 22 in 2012's Top 100) but constantly falls on it's face. Not saying the Ravens don't have ability, but they are choke artists. Good enough to win, not good enough to win big.

They think sweeping the Steelers last year magically legitimizes them and erases the fact that 'Grandpa Lewis is still the only player on that team with a ring... from over a Decade ago. I hope they hold onto that. Because as long as Average Joe is there, they're not sniffing the Super Bowl.

As for Jason Worilds, I've given up on the bum. He's Alonzo Jackson II. He's done after this camp. Chris Carter is really stepping up and working, though. So it's not a complete loss.

In 2007, the Dallas Cowboys were the #1 seed in the NFC with a 13-3 record. At the time, the media hyped them up as favorites to represent the NFC in Super Bowl 42. Since then, they've only made the playoffs once in 2009. But did that stop the media from hyping them up and calling them contenders? Even today while there isn't as much Cowboy hype, they still get overrated.

Case in point is that it takes the media a long time to let go of a perceived "darling," even when that team falls flat on its face time and time again. Expect Raven hype to continue for a while even if they miss the playoffs this year.

Steelersfan87
08-02-2012, 04:31 PM
Following the bye week, Jason Worilds started 5 of the last 6 games. He had 3 sacks, a forced fumble, and 27 tackles in those 5 games. Including a 9 tackle, 2 sack, 1 forced fumble game against the Browns. Some of that time including playing through the wrist injury that he's still recovering from right now.

There's no way he gets cut. At worst he starts on the PUP list, but if I were to guess, I'd think he would be ready to go at least by the start of the season.

jiminpa
08-02-2012, 04:37 PM
In 2007, the Dallas Cowboys were the #1 seed in the NFC with a 13-3 record. At the time, the media hyped them up as favorites to represent the NFC in Super Bowl 42. Since then, they've only made the playoffs once in 2009. But did that stop the media from hyping them up and calling them contenders? Even today while there isn't as much Cowboy hype, they still get overrated.

Case in point is that it takes the media a long time to let go of a perceived "darling," even when that team falls flat on its face time and time again. Expect Raven hype to continue for a while even if they miss the playoffs this year.! Let them hype the purple crows, as if they aren't the dirtiest team in the NFL, and continue to treat us like they always have. We do better that way. Even in the 70's we were never supposed to win, because we didn't do it in the air, like all of the media favorites. But even when we were passing in running situations and when did run it was designed to fail, they loved our horrible OC, but still hated the team. Now we are probably moving back to dominating both sides of the ball, and we are worse than the Clowns. I don't want the idiots at Sports Center to like us. I want to win.

austinfrench76
08-02-2012, 04:44 PM
There being 3 pages of responses here on a Steelers forum gets him what he wanted. To be inflamatory for the sake of being imflamatory. No real reasoning and his own reasoning not being used against Baltimore's age issue proves it. Worked though. Bravo, sir.

Buddha Bus
08-02-2012, 04:49 PM
Another couple of things this guy missed is the fact that the Ravens' o-line is a shambles. Ben Grubbs left in free agency (arguably their best o-lineman). Bryant McKinnie is overweight, uninspired, and injured. Oher is inconsistent (hardly worthy of a movie about him as it turns out). Matt Birk is old.

They also lost a damn good linebacker to free agency in Jarrett Johnson who left for the Chargers. He will be sorely missed. Factor in the loss of Suggs and the continued aging/injuries of Ray Lewis and Ed Reed also and you have an extremely vulnerable defense in the making.

And don't forget that the Ravens are debuting yet another defensive coordinator this year (their 3rd in three years). How many times can you go to the coaching well before it comes up dry?

This "writer" has no clue what he's talking about. He comes across as a Baltimoron homer with their yearly delusions of grandeur. I can't wait till the Steelers prove how completely uninformed this asshat is.

LET'S KICK IT OFF ALREADY!!!!!

steelfury02
08-02-2012, 05:59 PM
ah yes, the annual "We're going to get the Steelers this year . . ."

The Ravens beat em' twice - congrats to you. Are you finished celebrating yet or do you need more Gatorade for your November shower?

Listen - will you please make it to a Super Bowl before you come around here? Until then - I just can't relate to some of you Ravens fans with your Napoleon complex . . .

Buddha Bus
08-02-2012, 06:06 PM
Are you finished celebrating yet or do you need more Gatorade for your November shower?

Just wait till we give 'em a Black and Golden shower this year. :monkey:

:sofunny:

GoFor7
08-02-2012, 07:05 PM
There being 3 pages of responses here on a Steelers forum gets him what he wanted. To be inflamatory for the sake of being imflamatory. No real reasoning and his own reasoning not being used against Baltimore's age issue proves it. Worked though. Bravo, sir.

I wonder how they determine which teams to overanalyze and shout doom and gloom and which teams to ass kiss.

pittpete
08-02-2012, 07:52 PM
I have to change the radio channel when this hater comes on.
He's just a whiny biatch

TRH
08-02-2012, 11:15 PM
Worilds has a very good chance of getting cut if what I hear from camp is true. I am glad to hear that Carter is kicking butt. Worilds just may be the odd man out if he can't get his injured butt on the field. I had high hopes for him when he was drafted but not every player is going to make it in the NFL. Doesn't matter what team you get drafted on. It is anyone's best guess if someone will be a star or a bust.



Worilds. Sweed. Sepulveda. These guys were supposed to all rule the world for years at their respective positions at some point....just f-in dominate the competition.
Then look what happened. Technically, nothing's happened "yet" to Worilds...but its looking more and more like it could be "bust" then "he's going to get shown the door".

Steelersfan87
08-02-2012, 11:52 PM
He had wrist surgery and is recovering. The team knew about the injury last season and he played through it and had surgery on it in the offseason. Nothing that is happening with Worilds right now is a surprise to the team. He stepped up when they needed him with Woodley out last year (yes, I know he was injured while Harrison was out), and I see no reason to believe that he will regress from his run at the end of the regular season last year. I think people need to give him a break and remember that he has Pro Bowlers in front of him. At this point it really doesn't make a different where he was drafted.

StainlessStill
08-02-2012, 11:59 PM
He had wrist surgery and is recovering. The team knew about the injury last season and he played through it and had surgery on it in the offseason. Nothing that is happening with Worilds right now is a surprise to the team. He stepped up when they needed him with Woodley out last year (yes, I know he was injured while Harrison was out), and I see no reason to believe that he will regress from his run at the end of the regular season last year. I think people need to give him a break and remember that he has Pro Bowlers in front of him. At this point it really doesn't make a different where he was drafted.

Disagree. He was drafted in the second round to give us that sense of security to be our man of the future. To be that, you must convince the coaching staff that you could stay healthy, and take on every single repetition that is needed to grow into a role.

Worlids has been quite the opposite and it's CERTAINLY glowing right now. We are very, very thin at outside linebacker with depth concerns and that position has quickly become a black spot. Worlids was drafted for this specific reasoning if this dilemma ever presented itself. Instead of being the next guy in line, he's a contributor to our weak outside line-backing backbone.

I have ZERO faith that he's going to do anything spectacular to earn a position longterm. That honor thus far is obviously going to Chris Carter, who is doing what Worlids was expected to do in the first place.

Play ferocious, turn some heads and be ready to be inserted in the staring lineup whenever your number is called. So far, Worlids has shown to do nothing but miss practice and game time. As a second rounder, you expect more.

I'll be giving him the benefit of the doubt, but his time is running out.

Steelersfan87
08-03-2012, 12:22 AM
Based on your posts it doesn't sound like you are giving him the benefit of the doubt.

We're just a week into training camp...why start worrying now? He's missing some valuable practice reps - fine. But other than that, there's no need for "bust" talk right now when the last time he was in a position to do something that mattered to the team, he did exceedingly well.

It's funny once a guy gets injured a couple times it's assumed he's going to constantly be injured and miss more time than not. Curtis Martin was plagued by injuries in college, yet started over 100 consecutive games in the pros.

Hawaii 5-0
08-03-2012, 12:55 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if Worilds gets put on the Reserve PUP list to start the regular season and ends up missing the first six weeks of the season in order to let his wrist heal properly.

the good news is that Chris Carter is looking very good in camp so far and is providing us with some much needed depth at OLB behind Harrison and Woodley in Worilds' absence.

steelers33
08-03-2012, 03:59 AM
Ehh thats talking as if the worst would happen to our football team. This year will be a transition year no doubt but we still have a solid chance to win the division. Its going to depend on how everything comes together at the start of the season through the middle of the season. If offense can get clicking under Hailey, and new younger guys step up on defense and Harrison and Troy are able to stay healthy, than I think we are in prime position. Its wait and see at this point, but we'll find out who this squad is soon enough.

steelfury02
08-03-2012, 09:27 AM
Ideally these two rooks on o-line and the two for olb will be ready to carry on "the standard" by the last quarter of the season (hopefully before then) - then as Ben and co. always tell the rooks come playoff run time - "you're not rookies anymore - time to step it up . . . "

I don't give a crap what the talking heads say - its just the idea of being able to rub everyone's face in the dirt that would be soooooo satisfying.