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Vis
08-09-2012, 10:04 AM
Todd Haley has heard plenty about needing to run the ball more since being hired as Steelers offensive coordinator six months ago.
While agreeing with the premise, Haley would rather focus on something more precise than simply needing to call more runs.

Haley is adamant the Steelers run the ball better in the most critical situations — when the opposition knows they will.

“That’s the name of the game offensively,” Haley said. “You need to be able to get the yards that you need on the ground when the defense knows you are running, wherever that falls in the game — if it is a critical short-yardage or if it is a four-minute situation.”

That’s what Haley hopes to see starting at 7:30 p.m. Thursday, when the Steelers open the preseason against Philadelphia at Lincoln Financial Field.

The Steelers weren’t able to run when they wanted last season, which led to an offense ranking in the bottom third in scoring.

It was partly because former offensive coordinator Bruce Arians fancied passing over running in third-down, short-yardage and four-minute situations. But it also was that the Steelers weren’t very good in those scenarios.

The Steelers faced third-and-2 or less 35 times last season. They ran 19 times (converting 68 percent) and passed 16 times (converting 50 percent).

When the situation was third-and-3, the Steelers threw all 19 times (converting 58 percent).

Tackle Max Starks blamed the struggles on the offensive line not getting the job done and Arians’ offensive philosophy.

“At the points they called certain plays, we might not exactly have been prepared for it, or we were expecting something else to be called, or we weren’t physically ready,” Starks said.

“To be honest, we weren’t doing enough before then to make the defense respect the run. If we are passing the entire game, then when four minutes hit and we have to run it, it’s not going to happen.”

The Steelers ran 29 percent of the time on first down last season, down nearly 12 percent from the year before, and ran 42 percent of the time overall (down 15 percent from 2007, Tomlin’s first season).

Haley doesn’t necessarily want to run more than the Steelers did last season but would like to be more balanced to go with being effective in critical run situations.

“We want to be able to run the ball when we have to throw it and throw it when we have to throw it,” Haley said. “That’s really a key in being a successful offense.”

Haley put an emphasis on physicality within the offensive line so the unit would be more prepared for situations like short yardage and the final four minutes of the game.

“Anytime the defense knows you are going to pound the ball and you are successful, that kind of takes away their heartbeat,” guard Willie Colon.

“That’s what we want to do better this year, and we will do better this year.”


http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/2364526-85/steelers-haley-percent-run-season-offensive-game-running-situations-ball

tony hipchest
08-09-2012, 10:35 AM
:banging:

The Steelers faced third-and-2 or less 35 times last season. They ran 19 times (converting 68 percent) and passed 16 times (converting 50 percent).

68%>50%= simple

When the situation was third-and-3, the Steelers threw all 19 times (converting 58 percent).

other teams watch and chart film. part of an offensive coordinators job is to do the same and self scout, or ATLEAST have a quality control assistant do it. = Arians wasnt doing his job.:dang:

Tackle Max Starks blamed the struggles on the offensive line not getting the job done and Arians’ offensive philosophy.

HATER!

“At the points they called certain plays, we might not exactly have been prepared for it, or we were expecting something else to be called,

:nerd:

“To be honest, we weren’t doing enough before then to make the defense respect the run. If we are passing the entire game, then when four minutes hit and we have to run it, it’s not going to happen.”

The Steelers ran 29 percent of the time on first down last season, down nearly 12 percent from the year before, and ran 42 percent of the time overall (down 15 percent from 2007, Tomlin’s first season).

When the Steelers DID run on first down they gained over 5 yards per carry. :thumbsup:


Haley put an emphasis on physicality within the offensive line so the unit would be more prepared for situations like short yardage and the final four minutes of the game.

"We're talking about practice, man... PRACTICE"

“Anytime the defense knows you are going to pound the ball and you are successful, that kind of takes away their heartbeat,” guard Willie Colon.

“That’s what we want to do better this year, and we will do better this year.”


http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/2364526-85/steelers-haley-percent-run-season-offensive-game-running-situations-ball

i cant wait to see a competent, explosive, and legitimate offense this year that isnt constantly tripping over their own dicks.

MACH1
08-09-2012, 10:42 AM
So glad the colts have to deal with the arians ineptitude and not us.

Of course it all could have been due to lack of execution. :rolleyes:

steelfury02
08-09-2012, 11:18 AM
to paraphrase the Airhead approach when asked about the running game and running backs:

"I'll start running the ball when they prove to me they can."

Well Airhead, when you aren't even letting them practice it, its not gonna come out so hot during the game. Of course, that isn't your fault - they didn't practice it because they couldn't prove to you they could. Or wait, wasn't it that you just wouldn't practice it?

Quite the wordsmith Arians. And quite the finger pointer.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-09-2012, 11:41 AM
“To be honest, we weren’t doing enough before then to make the defense respect the run. If we are passing the entire game, then when four minutes hit and we have to run it, it’s not going to happen.”

]

What? Starks didnt think the offense ran enough?? That makes Joe Greene, Art Rooney, Polamalu, Willie Parker, Mendenhall and countless others that didnt think the run game was used enough to make teams respect it???

But, but, but ......."this is a passing league", this aint your dads steelers team, 3 yards and a cloud of dust Cowherball. :blah: Why do so many fans not understand that you need to be able to run the ball in the game of football.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-09-2012, 11:44 AM
So glad the colts have to deal with the arians ineptitude and not us.

Of course it all could have been due to lack of execution. :rolleyes:

...:rofl:

GoFor7
08-09-2012, 12:12 PM
What? Starks didnt think the offense ran enough?? That makes Joe Greene, Art Rooney, Polamalu, Willie Parker, Mendenhall and countless others that didnt think the run game was used enough to make teams respect it???

But, but, but ......."this is a passing league", this aint your dads steelers team, 3 yards and a cloud of dust Cowherball. :blah: Why do so many fans not understand that you need to be able to run the ball in the game of football.

Might have something to do with the fact the team that was dead last in rushing won the Super Bowl.

I don't think anyone is saying "don't run the ball." Just don't run the ball because you feel like you have to in order to please the fans stuck in the 70's. Quality is more important that quantity when running.

lardlad
08-09-2012, 12:15 PM
Haley is adamant the Steelers run the ball better in the most critical situations — when the opposition knows they will.

This is it! You know, I love running the ball, I loved the 3 yards and a cloud of dust. Mostly I loved running the ball, the other team knew we were going to run, and they couldn't do anything about it.

But hat is all a personal thing and I realize it is not the only way to win, as the Steelers were able to show with Arians (mostly). I do not insist that we run 80% of the time. In fact I was fine with the balance we had last year. But MF-er if we needed two yards, we had/chose to line up in shotgun. If you can't line 'em up and at least make it look like you MIGHT run, get off the freakin' field. Arians fit the golf cliché, drive for show, putt for dough. Our short game has SUCKED for at least 5 years.

Fire Arians
08-09-2012, 12:34 PM
tonight should be good for both teams. philly can't ever stop the run and prolly made it their #1 priority on defense to stop the run. and the steelers want to run better so we're gonna dial up some running plays

Fire Arians
08-09-2012, 12:36 PM
"We're talking about practice, man... PRACTICE"

not the game, not the game that i play every one like it's my last, we talkin bout practice, man.

steelfury02
08-09-2012, 12:50 PM
The mere fact that Ben and Haley are thinking of the same play in certain situation is a really, REALLY good sign of where things are heading . . .so stoked.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-09-2012, 01:06 PM
Might have something to do with the fact the team that was dead last in rushing won the Super Bowl.

I don't think anyone is saying "don't run the ball." Just don't run the ball because you feel like you have to in order to please the fans stuck in the 70's. Quality is more important that quantity when running.

So living by statistical exceptions is the way to go I guess. Better run out and get lightning strike insurance.:applaudit:

The Arians offense devalued the running game. It made the team relatively one dimensional on offense. It made teams not respect the run, so they focused on pass rush and put hits on the QB. Then, when the team needed to close out games with a run game they could not.

The 2002 Cleveland Browns offensive issues in the AFC Wildcard game was a microcosiim for the last 5 years of Steelers offensive inefficiency. I am happy and hopeful that we have moved on from that.

GoFor7
08-09-2012, 01:36 PM
So living by statistical exceptions is the way to go I guess. Better run out and get lightning strike insurance.:applaudit:

The Arians offense devalued the running game. It made the team relatively one dimensional on offense. It made teams not respect the run, so they focused on pass rush and put hits on the QB. Then, when the team needed to close out games with a run game they could not.

The 2002 Cleveland Browns offensive issues in the AFC Wildcard game was a microcosiim for the last 5 years of Steelers offensive inefficiency. I am happy and hopeful that we have moved on from that.

I guess you didn't read the rest of my post after my reference to last year's Giants.

Oh well, back to Cowherball then! Why step on a team's throat when you can play for field goals and put all the pressure on your defense!

http://www.almightyphilly.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/bill-cowher12.jpg

That chin itself would make a good fullback!

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-09-2012, 02:28 PM
I guess you didn't read the rest of my post after my reference to last year's Giants.

Oh well, back to Cowherball then! Why step on a team's throat when you can play for field goals and put all the pressure on your defense!

http://www.almightyphilly.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/bill-cowher12.jpg

That chin itself would make a good fullback!

And I guess you didnt read my reference to an offense being one dimensional.

Oh well, back to scapegoating the Steelers coach of the 90's and your hate for "Cowherball".

GoFor7
08-09-2012, 02:38 PM
And I guess you didnt read my reference to an offense being one dimensional.

Oh well, back to scapegoating the Steelers coach of the 90's and your hate for "Cowherball".

This is where some in Steeler Nation have me confused. They want three yards and a cloud of dust offense, but they also want less pressure on the defense to win games. That kind of football puts TREMENDOUS pressure on the defense.

And yes, I did read you're reference to an offense being one dimensional, my response was this:

I don't think anyone is saying "don't run the ball." Just don't run the ball because you feel like you have to in order to please the fans stuck in the 70's. Quality is more important that quantity when running.

tony hipchest
08-09-2012, 03:16 PM
This is where some in Steeler Nation have me confused. They want three yards and a cloud of dust offense, but they also want less pressure on the defense to win games. That kind of football puts TREMENDOUS pressure on the defense:

Wrong. Polamalu even says "wrong".

3 and out puts tremendous pressure on the defense.

in the 4 minute offense when you are trying to win the game, 3 yds and a cloud of dust erases 2.25 minutes off the clock WITHOUT a first down. get a first down = game over.

wasnt cowher like 100-1-1 with a 10 point lead and pretty much undefeated taking a lead into the 4th quarter?

compare that to all the 4th quarter leads we have lost when arians decides to air it out and ben throws an interception or gets sacked and fumbles (or we simply go 3 and out four times in a row. the defense is GASSED.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-09-2012, 03:34 PM
This is where some in Steeler Nation have me confused. They want three yards and a cloud of dust offense, but they also want less pressure on the defense to win games. That kind of football puts TREMENDOUS pressure on the defense.

And yes, I did read you're reference to an offense being one dimensional, my response was this:

Honestly, I think you have assumed that a majority of Steeler Nation wants 3 yards and a cloud of dust. I havent seen anybody on this board or SU that has said they want that.

And if you want to take pressure off the defense to win games, then have a team that can run a 4 minutes offense and close out games, instead of one that throws incomplete passes to give the ball right back to the opposition.

Seriously G....why the Cowher hate?? Did he spit on you at a game one day??

teegre
08-09-2012, 03:43 PM
Deja vu.  Are we reeeally discussing this AGAIN???  

Running for running's sake is not what anyone is advocating.  

Running when the Steelers need to and/or should run is what people are advocating.  

3rd & 1:  try running everyone once in a while.  

1st & goal from inside the 1:  try running everyone once in a while.  

Two minutes left, in FG range, trying to secure a lead & run out the clock (eg the Denver play-off game from last season):  try running everyone once in a while.

And, about Cowher: 

1994: Poorest of luck in the AFCCG (a game wherein passing yard records were broken, and the league's two leading rushing attacks never eclipsed 70 yards... and, from the 3 yard-line, they pass... knocked down... ugh).  

1995:  The "N" (a nameless, bearded QB) throws two INTs, directly at Larry Brown (setting up 10 easy points).  

1997:  Kordell throws three INTs in the red-zone.  

2001:  Specisl teams snafu.  

2004:  BB was a rookie.  Throws three INTs (two of which were returned for TDs).  

GoFor7
08-09-2012, 04:02 PM
Wrong. Polamalu even says "wrong".

3 and out puts tremendous pressure on the defense.

in the 4 minute offense when you are trying to win the game, 3 yds and a cloud of dust erases 2.25 minutes off the clock WITHOUT a first down. get a first down = game over.

wasnt cowher like 100-1-1 with a 10 point lead and pretty much undefeated taking a lead into the 4th quarter?

compare that to all the 4th quarter leads we have lost when arians decides to air it out and ben throws an interception or gets sacked and fumbles (or we simply go 3 and out four times in a row. the defense is GASSED.

Arians called for too many high-risk passes in those situations IMO. You can ice a game with lower risk passes when the other team isn't letting you ice it on the ground. In this situation Arians should've used the TEs more (along with many other situations).

Remember the first Raven game in 2010? Steelers pinned deep in their own zone, but could ice the game with a first down. Run run run punt. You don't think a short, safe pass should have been attempted? Tomlin shouldn't coach scared. Remember 3rd and 19? Remember the end of the AFCCG against the Jets? I doubt Troy was disappointed in those outcomes. It's not just run or bust.

Time of possession is important, but scoring point is much more helpful in taking the pressure off a defense.

The mentality seems to be if the defense is rested then it's invincible. Wrong. Absolutely wrong. Oh sure you can take a lot of time off the clock, but if you end up punting away because you didn't want to pass on a 3rd&6, or you settle for a FG because you're scared to let your QB take a shot at the endzone you're still putting tremendous pressure on that defense.

If it comes down to another 3rd & 6 with the choice between playing scared and running or trusting Ben, I'll trust Ben. I hope to see this offensive line control the line of scrimmage and minimize those situations, but I also hope Haley creates some short passing plays just in case.

GoFor7
08-09-2012, 04:05 PM
Deja vu.  Are we reeeally discussing this AGAIN???  

Running for running's sake is not what anyone is advocating.

Agreed. El-Gonzo seems to think I want Ben to break Brees' record from last year. :chuckle:

tanda10506
08-09-2012, 04:11 PM
Wrong. Polamalu even says "wrong".

....that's when you know your wrong

As far as the "3 yards and a cloud of dust", nobody is asking for that. What everybody want's is efficient running. "Cowherball" is definitely not efficient enough for what we now need, but with a good defense it's still a winnable strategy, just not as much now as it used to be.

Cowher never had a QB and went a while without a real #1 WR, let alone a viable #2 or #3 option. Yet we always had a RB that was effective, especially when we got the Bus, so what else was he expected to do. If Neil O'Donnel or Kordell threw as much as Ben has the last few years the turnover ratio and 3rd down conversion % would be so terrible that the defense would not have been able to make up for it. Even if they went 50/50, you don't really wan't Kordell or O'Donnel throwing that much.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-09-2012, 05:01 PM
Agreed. El-Gonzo seems to think I want Ben to break Brees' record from last year. :chuckle:

Again, an incorrect assumption.

The only thing that I seem to know your thoughts on this topic is that you hate Cowher and his teams offenses of the 1990's.

Hawaii 5-0
08-09-2012, 05:37 PM
....that's when you know your wrong




yup, that's when you just have to immediately shut up and admit you're wrong.

GoFor7
08-09-2012, 10:35 PM
I hate Cowher? Not sure I ever said that. Some of you must be bad at sensing sarcasm. He did good considering what he had, and back then the NFL wasn't as offensively-oriented as it was today. Still, there were some times I would've liked to seem him keep his foot on the pedal instead of playing not to lose. Steeler fans didn't need the stress. If he coached today I don't think he would be as conservative, especially if he had an established QB. Today he even admits the offense's strength is their QB and receivers.

My main point isn't about Cowher, my point is about not playing scared. Did you see those high-percentage passes Ben threw in the first series against the Eagles? THAT'S what I'm talking about. You can mix that in with the ground game to help ice a win at the end.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go sit in a corner and grumble about Cowher since I hate him so much while simultaneously hoping Ben is the first QB to have a 6000 yard season. :chuckle:

lardlad
08-10-2012, 05:40 AM
I guess you didn't read the rest of my post after my reference to last year's Giants.

Oh well, back to Cowherball then! Why step on a team's throat when you can play for field goals and put all the pressure on your defense!

http://www.almightyphilly.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/bill-cowher12.jpg

That chin itself would make a good fullback!

and what was the record under Cowherball with a lead? When we got a lead and ran the ball we hardly ever lost. There was nothing better than a 10pt lead going into the second half. Almost guaranteed a win.

and with the running game, quantity does matter. this ties back getting the lead and finishing the game. You lead going into the 4th qtr, you ran the ball sufficiently all day, the defense is tired and you control the clock.

lardlad
08-10-2012, 05:42 AM
....that's when you know your wrong

As far as the "3 yards and a cloud of dust", nobody is asking for that. What everybody want's is efficient running. "Cowherball" is definitely not efficient enough for what we now need, but with a good defense it's still a winnable strategy, just not as much now as it used to be.

Cowher never had a QB and went a while without a real #1 WR, let alone a viable #2 or #3 option. Yet we always had a RB that was effective, especially when we got the Bus, so what else was he expected to do. If Neil O'Donnel or Kordell threw as much as Ben has the last few years the turnover ratio and 3rd down conversion % would be so terrible that the defense would not have been able to make up for it. Even if they went 50/50, you don't really wan't Kordell or O'Donnel throwing that much.

good points.

jiminpa
08-10-2012, 08:00 AM
This is where some in Steeler Nation have me confused. They want three yards and a cloud of dust offense, but they also want less pressure on the defense to win games. That kind of football puts TREMENDOUS pressure on the defense.

And yes, I did read you're reference to an offense being one dimensional, my response was this:
Huh? You have that backwards. "3 yards and a cloud of dust" really needs to be 3.5 yards and a cloud of dust, all the way down the field until the endzone. It takes time off of the clock while the defense and the opponent's offense are off of the field. Cowher had Donahoe for a GM for most of his tenure, and so never had all of the players he needed. It's the touchdown or bust philosophy that puts tremendous pressure on a defense, even when it works, and it usually doesn't. The BEST case scenario in TD or bust is that the defense gets to the sideline gets a sip of water and goes back out with one more TD on the board. The worst case is that the defense barely gets to sideline, doesn't even get water before having to go back out after the interception in the shadow of their own goal post. There's no time in that to breathe, no time to make adjustments, no time to clear your head, you just play until you drop, and then get blamed for being worn down in the fourth quarter after a game of superhuman heroics, mostly on your own side of the field.

Does any of that sound familiar to you? It should. Any other defense in the NFL, including the Purple Crows, would have imploded years ago. It is a testament to LeBeau and the defensive players that the Steelers have not only been above mediocre, but in the championship hunt under Tomlin and Arians.