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siss
07-29-2006, 08:37 PM
Thats what im gunna start calling Holmes. I want to like him. But he just does't get it. He does'nt know what it means to be a steeler. And he really doens't know the fans. He hasn't proven a damn thing yet. Other then he can get arrested.

Holmes doesn't apologize for multiple arrests

LATROBE, Pa. (AP) - Pittsburgh Steelers rookie Santonio Holmes offered no apologies. No excuses, either.

Holmes, arrested twice since being the first wide receiver selected during the NFL draft in April, doesn't think the incidents have affected his status with the Steelers or their fans and declined Saturday to say he was sorry.

"I haven't gotten any negative feedback from any fan I have seen around the city since I've been here, which is about a month and a half," Holmes said after completing the team's annual camp-opening run test. "So I don't think I have anything to say to those guys. They know what I can do on the field, what type of person I am on and off the field."
Holmes faces an Aug. 15 trial in Columbus, Ohio, for domestic violence, an incident that involves the mother of one of his three children. He also pleaded innocent to disorderly conduct charges filed in Miami in May.

Even if Holmes thinks differently, the two arrests troubled the Steelers, and director of football operations Kevin Colbert said the team will closely monitor his situation. Holmes faces possible discipline by the NFL if any more problems occur.

However, the Steelers did not feel it was necessary to include any extra language in Holmes' $8.11 million, five-year contract protecting them if he could not play as the result of any off-field problems. Colbert said the team felt the standard NFL player contract offers sufficient protection. Holmes' deal guarantees him $5.42 million.

"He set himself back with a couple of incidents. ... Now, it's up to him to take the next step," Colbert said. "We're comfortable he will take all the necessary corrective steps on and off the field."

Coach Bill Cowher said he will talk to Holmes about the player's troubled summer, but first wanted to see what Holmes said during his news conference Saturday.

Holmes also hasn't endeared himself to at least one Steelers player, and it's an important one - Ben Roethlisberger, the man who will throw Holmes' passes. The quarterback said he tried to call Holmes several times during the summer, but Holmes never returned his calls.

Asked Saturday if the two ever talked, Roethlisberger said, "Yeah, when he showed up yesterday (Friday) we said 'Hi' to each other."

Holmes didn't seem to think there was a problem with the Super Bowl-winning quarterback, saying, "I didn't get any calls from him."

Less than a day since signing his contract, Holmes took part in the mandatory series of 14 40-yard sprints that each uninjured Steelers player must complete before the team begins practicing. Before reporting to camp Friday, Holmes spent the week working out with Hines Ward, the Steelers' Super Bowl MVP receiver.

"I wouldn't say it was a piece of cake. It was pretty tough, but I prepared myself well during the time I was in Pittsburgh, training on my own and then training with Hines," Holmes said.

Nine players skipped the runs because of medical concerns, the most of any recent Steelers camp. Among those not running were quarterback Charlie Batch, center Jeff Hartings, running back Duce Staley, nose tackle Casey Hampton, linebacker Joey Porter, right tackle Max Starks, defensive end Shaun Nua and tight end Walter Young.

Porter had knee surgery two months ago, and Cowher said he likely will begin camp on the physically unable to perform list.

Hampton, a Pro Bowl lineman whose listed weight is 325 pounds, had problems with the run test three years ago. On Saturday, he took part in several 100-yard runs that weren't part of the Steelers' prescribed running test and trailed badly in his group.

"Casey tweaked a hamstring last week running for the test," Cowher said. "I was surprised. He said he tweaked it, but I didn't know he could run fast enough to tweak it."

SteelersMongol
07-29-2006, 08:59 PM
Thats what im gunna start calling Holmes. I want to like him. But he just does't get it. He does'nt know what it means to be a steeler. And he really doens't know the fans. He hasn't proven a damn thing yet. Other then he can get arrested.



1. Pittsburgh Steelers rookie Santonio Holmes offered no apologies. No excuses, either.

2. "I haven't gotten any negative feedback from any fan I have seen around the city since I've been here, which is about a month and a half," Holmes said after completing the team's annual camp-opening run test. "So I don't think I have anything to say to those guys. They know what I can do on the field, what type of person I am on and off the field."

3. Asked Saturday if the two ever talked, Roethlisberger said, "Yeah, when he showed up yesterday (Friday) we said 'Hi' to each other." Holmes didn't seem to think there was a problem with the Super Bowl-winning quarterback, saying, "I didn't get any calls from him."

4. "I wouldn't say it was a piece of cake. It was pretty tough, but I prepared myself well during the time I was in Pittsburgh, training on my own and then training with Hines," Holmes said.


Hmmm. One IS beginning to wonder. Really. Wasn't that suppose to be "I trained with Hines first, then I trained on my own?" Well I guess we'll see what we bargained.

83-Steelers-43
07-29-2006, 09:01 PM
While I'm going to keep an eye on Holmes and wait until he proves to me that he is worthy enough to sport a Steeler jersey, I'm not going to state he is another Plaxico Burress. The kid hasn't played a down in the NFL to this date. He's in camp. That's the first step. Now let him prove himself instead of pegging the kid as the next trouble maker on this roster.

As for the phone call to Ben. At first I shook my head at the action. Then I thought it over. How do we know what went down? Were we there when Ben called? Do we know where Holmes was when Ben called. Hell, de we even know for sure that Ben called? Holmes stated that Ben did not call. Ben stated that he did call. So unless your were standing next to Ben or Holmes, your opinion is pure assumption. Then again, I'm sure some will give Ben the benefit of the doubt out of pure homerism. Not surprising there. Get over the phone call story. There are bigger concerns.

I'm willing to give the kid a chance at the pro level. At the same time, he's a on short leash in my book.

siss
07-29-2006, 09:12 PM
I hope he proves me wrong. But we don't need another cancer in the locker room. Bettis would not approve. These two need to sit down and talk away from the media and get on the same page.

BlackNGold203
07-29-2006, 09:14 PM
"Coach Bill Cowher said he will talk to Holmes about the player's troubled summer, but first wanted to see what Holmes said during his news conference Saturday."


Well..based on this news conference...should be an interesting discussion

siss
07-29-2006, 09:21 PM
"Coach Bill Cowher said he will talk to Holmes about the player's troubled summer, but first wanted to see what Holmes said during his news conference Saturday."


Well..based on this news conference...should be an interesting discussion
I'd like to be a fly on the wall for that one!

83-Steelers-43
07-29-2006, 09:22 PM
Here's a hypothetical question.......

Even if Ben did call and Santonio did not call him back. So what? They are going to see each other in camp. They are going to get to know each other whether they like it or not. If Ben see's the kid open he will throw him the ball. What's the big deal here?

Sorry. Clean slate. Start of the new season. I'm willing to give the kid a chance during his pro-career before I start pegging him the next "Plax" simply because he supposedly didn't call back the starting QB.

SteelersMongol
07-29-2006, 09:26 PM
Here's a hypothetical question.......

Even if Ben did call and Santonio did not call him back. So what? They are going to see each other in camp. They are going to get to know each other whether they like it or not. If Ben see's the kid open he will throw him the ball. What's the big deal here?

Sorry. Clean slate. Start of the new season. I'm willing to give the kid a chance during his pro-career before I start pegging him the next "Plax" simply because he supposedly didn't call back the starting QB.

Could he (Holmes) have called Ben himself and said "I heard you called me, I don't see nothing on my message machine, those damn kids must've deleted them all. But thanks for the concern anyways" something like that? :smile: You know, to save his and Ben's face. :bouncy:

slashsteel
07-29-2006, 09:27 PM
43 I agree very good post..............

Why don't we take a wait and see on Holmes, a lot of conjecture at this point................

BlackNGold203
07-29-2006, 09:29 PM
Here's a hypothetical question.......

Even if Ben did call and Santonio did not call him back. So what? They are going to see each other in camp. They are going to get to know each other whether they like it or not. If Ben see's the kid open he will throw him the ball. What's the big deal here?

Sorry. Clean slate. Start of the new season. I'm willing to give the kid a chance during his pro-career before I start pegging him the next "Plax" simply because he supposedly didn't call back the starting QB.


Agreed 83...the phone thing is such a non issue....

Look..he's our #1 pick....if he's the real deal...this will all be forgotten

I trust Cowher and Colbert...they see something in this kid....and Im anxious to see this kid on the field

83-Steelers-43
07-29-2006, 09:31 PM
Could he (Holmes) have called Ben himself and said "I heard you called me, I don't see nothing on my message machine, but those damn kids must've deleted them all. But thanks for the concern anyways" something like that? :smile: You know, to save his and Ben's face. :bouncy:

Well he stated Ben never called him. Which is my point. Who knows what happened? "Coulda?" "Woulda?" "Shoulda?"

Then again I keep thinking to myself even if Ben did call him, "IT'S ONLY A PHONE CALL!!!". So what do I know? :sofunny:

It just amazes me that one could get so worked up over a phone call and a press conference. When the regular season comes around and if he starts becoming a trouble maker, then I will voice my final opinion on the kid. But some are chewing out the kid and pegging him as the next "Plax" when he hasn't even played a down of pro ball.

SteelersMongol
07-29-2006, 09:35 PM
Well he stated Ben never called him. Which is my point. Who knows what happened?

Then again I keep thinking to myself even if Ben did call him, "IT'S ONLY A PHONE CALL!!!". So what do I know? :sofunny:

It just amazes me that one could get so worked up over a phone call and a press conference. When the regular season comes around and if he starts becoming a trouble maker, then I will voice my final opinion on the kid. But some are chewing out the kid and pegging him as the next "Plax" when he hasn't even played a down of pro ball.

I agree. I've said it before, everyman deserves a chance a or two. Let's watch him for couple of seasons, and then we'll know for sure. :bouncy: But somebody must teach the kid something about the condom and how to use it or something that sort. :smile:

83-Steelers-43
07-29-2006, 09:38 PM
I agree. I've said it before, everyman deserves a chance a or two. Let's watch him for couple of seasons, and then we'll know for sure. :bouncy: But somebody must teach the kid how to use a condom. :smile:

Seasons? Hell, your more generous than me....lol. If this kid starts making trouble this season I would strongly debate on giving him the boot. I'm just willing to give the kid a chance to prove himself through training camp (see how he handles the talks with Cowher and Co.) and how he handles himself during the regular season.

As for the condom.........I agree 100%. :sofunny:

siss
07-29-2006, 10:01 PM
Plax 2.0 not calling Ben back is the equivalent of landing your dream job and then getting a call from the CEO and not calling him back. I would think that Holmes would have called Ben anyway. Seeing as how he was just in a life altering accident the week before. But thats just me.
Look no one was more excited about Holmes then me. Go back and look at some of my post from the draft. I gave him a pass on the kids. I gave him a pass on the first arrest (sounded like a lot of people were arrested that weekend) but I'm sorry there is no exuse for domestic violence. I dont care who you are. Something obvioulsy happend for him to be arrested. And him not calling ben back just adds to my beleif that he lacks maturity. By the way Plax 2.0 is my age.
Plus if you read his comments he is in total denial about the situation. He has'nt done a damn thing yet. Ben at least apologized several times to the media and his teamates and his coaches for his trangresions. I havnt seen that from Holmes. He may turn out to be the best wide out we have ever had, and if Im wrong then I will gladly eat crow, but he's not starting off very well in my book.

LambertLunatic
07-29-2006, 10:35 PM
Why make an issue out of him not apologizing? Had he apologized, he'd have been conceding that he had something to] apologize for. This wouldn't be a wise thing to do before going to court. I'd assume that his lawyer told him not to make any public apologies.

BIGBENFASTWILLIE
07-29-2006, 10:50 PM
hopefully he gets the whole.."TEAM" in his head during preseason.....If not then willie reid will be taking his place

BBC
07-29-2006, 11:02 PM
Super Bowl MVP Hines Ward said he worked out with Holmes all week in Pittsburgh before camp and doesn't believe the Steelers drafted a troubled player.

"I don't make much out of it. It doesn't bother me," Ward said of Holmes' two arrests. "He's here now, and we can't worry about what he did, only (about) his growth and maturity once he's around all the veteran guys who know what it takes. He's eager to learn and he's always asking questions."

I'm with Hines on this one...

I really don't see how Santonio is even close to Plaxico. He hasn't demanded to leave Pittsburgh, hasn't called our fans racist, and hasn?t even dropped a pass yet. Let's see what the kid can do before we chastise him.

siss
07-29-2006, 11:35 PM
Why make an issue out of him not apologizing? Had he apologized, he'd have been conceding that he had something to] apologize for. This wouldn't be a wise thing to do before going to court. I'd assume that his lawyer told him not to make any public apologies.
I would like him to apolgize for the disruption to the team. Like Ben did.

BB2W
07-30-2006, 12:29 AM
I have a feeling all the Holmes bashers will think differently of him once he has the ball in the open field.

MasterOfPuppets
07-30-2006, 01:47 AM
i don't feel he owes the fans an apology no more than ben did. what the man does in his personal life is his own damn business just like us.if you got into trouble ,do you feel a need to go to work and call a meeting to make an apology to your fellow employees or customers? hell no! it ain't nobodys business but your own. now the whole phone call thing is a different matter. holmes is basically calling ben a liar,saying he never called him. why would ben go on record saying he's tried to get in touch with him when he didn't? you and knew about it weeks ago,so why did holmes not?

83-Steelers-43
07-30-2006, 08:12 AM
Why make an issue out of him not apologizing? Had he apologized, he'd have been conceding that he had something to] apologize for. This wouldn't be a wise thing to do before going to court. I'd assume that his lawyer told him not to make any public apologies.

Good point.

Bottomline in my book is patience. Let them sit this kid down and have a talk with him, see how he handles camp and at least let the kid prove himself during the regular season. If he becomes a pain in the butt he will be gone. The Rooney's will not put up with this kid.

LambertIsGod58
07-30-2006, 08:15 AM
Why make an issue out of him not apologizing? Had he apologized, he'd have been conceding that he had something to] apologize for. This wouldn't be a wise thing to do before going to court. I'd assume that his lawyer told him not to make any public apologies.


This couldn't be more true....As far as the new job/CEO scenerio....Ben is not God. Ben is the starting QB, that's all. Holmes doesn't need to answer to Ben...He owes Ben nothing. And I also think that the Rooneys would have something to say about who the CEO is. I, for the life of me, can not understand why we have "fans" already convicting this kid. He hasn't even gone to court yet. And if you are saying it's not the legal charges, it's his attitude....You are still convicting him without giving him a chance....My God, he's been here SIX WEEKS....Just because you don't like how he conducts himself, doesn't make him a cancer to the team.

83-Steelers-43
07-30-2006, 09:31 AM
Not meaning to go off topic from our public hanging of this kid before he actually plays a down of NFL football, I found this interesting..................

From the Trib:

Holmes agreed to a five-year deal valued at $8.11 million, including $4.25 million in bonus dollars.

From the PPG:

"Holmes became the final piece in place when he signed a five-year contract last night for $8.11 million, including $5.25 million in bonuses."

:huh:

Eitherway, I think the PPG has the correct numbers. Strange though.

83-Steelers-43
07-30-2006, 09:50 AM
Also, please correct me if I'm wrong..........

Holmes already apologized for the arrests and the negative attention to the Steelers after both arrests. Did he not?

If that is the case, Is that not enough? Or are some also expecting Santonio to get down on both knees in front of the camera and apologize for supposedly not returning GODS phone calls?

tony hipchest
07-30-2006, 12:49 PM
arent there enough bengals players with true problems who are true cancers that we could be slamming? holmes is not a bungle. i see no reason some want to treat him like he is. he hasnt brought the steelers to their knees, nor will he

Koopa
07-30-2006, 01:18 PM
he doesn't need to apologize for anything, all he did was get arrested while being black and now famous, and his bitch was acting a fool. and if he isn't getting any negative feedback from the fans in pitt. he must either not have met any of the ppl on this forum or y'all so two face motherf'kers lol.

and to compare holmes to plax is just plain out stupid, holmes hasn't even played a game. so you can't compare him. and i liked plax, just didn't like that the way he acted when he left. so i guess i'll like holmes if he is infact "Plax 2.0"

Haiku_Dirtt
07-30-2006, 01:44 PM
While I'm going to keep an eye on Holmes and wait until he proves to me that he is worthy enough to sport a Steeler jersey, I'm not going to state he is another Plaxico Burress. The kid hasn't played a down in the NFL to this date. He's in camp. That's the first step. Now let him prove himself instead of pegging the kid as the next trouble maker on this roster.

As for the phone call to Ben. At first I shook my head at the action. Then I thought it over. How do we know what went down? Were we there when Ben called? Do we know where Holmes was when Ben called. Hell, de we even know for sure that Ben called? Holmes stated that Ben did not call. Ben stated that he did call. So unless your were standing next to Ben or Holmes, your opinion is pure assumption. Then again, I'm sure some will give Ben the benefit of the doubt out of pure homerism. Not surprising there. Get over the phone call story. There are bigger concerns.

I'm willing to give the kid a chance at the pro level. At the same time, he's a on short leash in my book.

That's the level headed way to look at it. You right about the pure assumption. Is Big Ben a big liar? We don't know. With a gun to my head I'd bet the house that it's Holmes.

More importantly right now and what I'd really like to know is why the Steelers Organization let this mini-drama unfold in the media. It doesn't take a Madison Avenue executive to know that his first press conference after making a healthy bank deposit could be trouble.

What in the hell were they thinking? Did they ask him what his responses would be in advance? Could they have told him that maybe he should answer a LITTLE differently?

What's most shocking about his first interview is not what Holmes said but what the Steelers allowed him to say.

tony hipchest
07-30-2006, 02:11 PM
"More importantly right now and what I'd really like to know is why the Steelers Organization let this mini-drama unfold in the media. It doesn't take a Madison Avenue executive to know that his first press conference after making a healthy bank deposit could be trouble."

i dont think its the steelers organizations responsibility to monitor the mini-dramas its overly sensitive fans create. too many people are trying to create smoke where theres not even fire. phone calls? psycho analyzing every word said in an openning camp press conference? c'mon people. its the fans fault for looking at our steelers players as Gods instead of regular people. better get used to the fact that holmes and any perceived attitude he may have is a steeler. the front office isnt gonna micro manage his life or be cutting their 1st rounder anytime soon.

83-Steelers-43
07-30-2006, 02:15 PM
I've been to three different Steeler boards since this "story" broke. To tell you the truth, I listened to his PC three different times and I really wasn't offended or surprised by what he stated. Am I the only one? Am I missing something here? Were there subliminal messages installed during the original PC that I missed?

Maybe if I put down half a bottle of jack, take a bad hit of LSD and watch it for the fourth time I can find something to get pissed about and join the group that are blowing this up beyond all imagination?

It's amazing that phone call that was supposedly not returned and the fact that he did not apologize during this past PC (even though he already apologized for his two arrests) can be made into such a big deal.

Haiku_Dirtt
07-30-2006, 02:37 PM
"More importantly right now and what I'd really like to know is why the Steelers Organization let this mini-drama unfold in the media. It doesn't take a Madison Avenue executive to know that his first press conference after making a healthy bank deposit could be trouble."

i dont think its the steelers organizations responsibility to monitor the mini-dramas its overly sensitive fans create. too many people are trying to create smoke where theres not even fire. phone calls? psycho analyzing every word said in an openning camp press conference? c'mon people. its the fans fault for looking at our steelers players as Gods instead of regular people. better get used to the fact that holmes and any perceived attitude he may have is a steeler. the front office isnt gonna micro manage his life or be cutting their 1st rounder anytime soon.

Yes and no. The sports media is a big big machine for better or worse. No. For worse. I don't need to go back to far into history to find an example of how 'perception' in the media can effect what happens in the locker and on the field.

Eagles.

I hate soap opera. I love football. Now I'm not suggesting they micro-manage because they can't. A Bull Durham sit down like Costner did with Meat would have been just fine for his first press conference.

The fans didn't splash the story on every sports front page around the globe. The press did. The NFL is a juggernaut. And public relations is part of the business - for the teams and the players - because that's what the league wants.

Those same reporters are going to go running to Ben and shove microphones in his face and ask him if he lied. That to me is very much part of the front office's job to prevent. And this story will not go away because come Monday morning it will be a top story on ESPN all day and perhaps all week.

Instead of talking about footbal we have this crap.

Haiku_Dirtt
07-30-2006, 02:39 PM
I've been to three different Steeler boards since this "story" broke. To tell you the truth, I listened to his PC three different times and I really wasn't offended or surprised by what he stated. Am I the only one? Am I missing something here? Were there subliminal messages installed during the original PC that I missed?

Maybe if I put down half a bottle of jack, take a bad hit of LSD and watch it for the fourth time I can find something to get pissed about and join the group that are blowing this up beyond all imagination?

I haven't seen it and I don't want too. I'm taking your word for it.

Somewhere. And somehow. The reporters saw and amber. And they couldn't stop themselves from fanning it into a fire. A-holes!

BB2W
07-30-2006, 02:44 PM
I agree 83-Steelers-43, I was not offended either... I don't see what the big deal is.

Once he starts making plays, all will be forgotten. :smile:

83-Steelers-43
07-30-2006, 02:45 PM
What about discussing camp battles? How certain players are coming along? The 56 other players in camp besides Ben (im sure that's impossible for a certain few) and Santonio Holmes?

Hopefully the media will let this die down now that he's in camp. The non-stop reports on Ben Roethlisberger is already driving me insane.

tony hipchest
07-30-2006, 02:46 PM
Instead of talking about footbal we have this crap.it would be far to easy to discuss that the Christian, ultimate citezen, and team player that holmes was drafted to replace only had 30 something catches and a few td's last season. it is the steelerfans expectations of expecting EVERY player on their team to be a demigod that has created this supposed media circus.

if the fans think hating this pick is gonna do the team good they are mistaken. good guy, or bad guy, holmes is not the answer and our teams success doesnt rely on him. if he cant get the job done, nate washington and willie reid are eagerly waiting. this is the same wether holmes is perfect off the field or not.

ben and the coaches, hines, arent gonna hold grudges against this rookie. why are the fans so hell bent on doing so?

tony hipchest
07-30-2006, 02:52 PM
What about discussing camp battles? How certain players are coming along? The 56 other players in camp besides Ben (im sure that's impossible for a certain few) and Santonio Holmes?

Hopefully the media will let this die down now that he's in camp. The non-stop reports on Ben Roethlisberger is already driving me insane.
if its good enough for colbert, its good enough for me: http://news.steelers.com/article/66201/

"It's always great to have all of your players here and focused and ready to go," said Colbert, who recently signed a four-year contract extension himself. "It's good for everybody to get off to a good start together, and it's no different for Santonio. It's especially good because he fell behind, because of the school requirements. He and Mike Kudla didn't get into the OTAs, and he missed a lot of football learning. Every practice is important, as we always say. It's one less distraction."

With one distraction behind him, Holmes faces another possible one on Aug. 15 when he has a court appearance as a result of being charged in Ohio with domestic violence.

"That's something he'll deal with, and I can't answer whether he will or not stay focused (though it)," said Colbert.

"Our opinion hasn't changed. Santonio has had some incidents that are being dealt with legally, they're being dealt with on a league basis as well. He has done everything he's supposed to do, to this point. Those situations will take care of themselves."

In the recent past, some NFL teams have sought to recoup bonus money from players who jeopardize their playing status by running afoul of the law, but Colbert said the new extension of the league's Collective Bargaining Agreement makes that more difficult. But even so, Colbert said there is no special language contained in Holmes' contract.

"It's a very complicated issue, even more complicated with the extension of the CBA," said Colbert. "It's not our intention to have anything like that. We are where we are with the player, and it's up to him to make the next step. We are confident he will make all the necessary steps forward from this point, both on the field and off the field.

"All players who have incidents are subject to a league review and a league suspension, and that's totally up to the NFL. The player has done everything to this point to meet any requirements. He is totally in compliance."

Even so, Holmes' image has taken a bit of a beating following those two arrests, and the fact he's signed and in camp on time only can help repair some of the damage.

"When you get some negative attention, no matter how you get it, you want to see something positive," said Colbert. "We all wanted to see something positive. We did as an organization, and his agent, Joel Segal, has worked very well with us to make sure the player was here on time. Santonio himself was very proactive to make sure he was here. He wants to do well. He'll have his opportunities, and we'll see how it unfolds over the next few weeks.

"When we made the pick, we were comfortable with the player. There have been situations that have arisen, and that will play itself out. He has done all the right things since the incidents, and we feel good that he's going to do everything correctly. Our beliefs haven't changed, even though he set himself back with a couple of incidents. He has the opportunity to make good, and we think he'll make good."

BB2W
07-30-2006, 02:52 PM
If this was already posted, I apologize...

LATROBE - Quincy Morgan has been asked to try a new position: role model.

The 28-year-old Morgan is rooming with rookie Santonio Holmes during Steelers training camp at Saint Vincent College where the two receivers share a dorm in Rooney Hall. Morgan, now entering his sixth season, says he's fine with the living arraignment.

"They didn't want to put him with another rookie," Morgan said. "... They know I'm not going to lead a guy the wrong way."

And Morgan is quick to defend the 22-year-old Holmes, despite two arrests since being drafted in April.

"(Holmes) got into a little trouble," Morgan said, "but that's not who you are when you get into trouble. Obviously, if the kid went out and slaughtered 16 people then you could pass judgment. But everybody had done things to get them in trouble. ... He's a good guy. He's a quiet guy. That's what I've seen since I met him."

link: http://www.timesonline.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16986220&BRD=2305&PAG=461&dept_id=478568&rfi=6

Atlanta Dan
07-30-2006, 03:04 PM
There is a lot of suppressed resentment by many fans regarding what pro athletes make these days that the media enjoys exploiting. Because the media cannot explicitly blame the players for making too much money (we live in a free markert economy, who would turn that money down with a chance to get it, etc.), the way the media gets to play to the fans' resentment is when a player is a jerk.

T.O. of course is the primary example of this, but over the years we have had other examples such as Michael Irvin and Randy Moss. For whatever reason (and I do not discount race being a factor), the WR has become the diva position that draws the media's fire.

In Pittsburgh, Plax brought down a lot of justified fire with his attitude (which the New York media has been blasting since the Giants' playoff loss last January) despite flashes of big time talent and the Steelers said see ya.

Holmes currently fits the role of arrogant punk athlete and will continue to give the media a recurring story to write until he cleans up (or at least hides) his attitude. A lot of posters claim if Holmes performs on the field all will be forgiven, but keep in mind that T.O. still is trashed for playing the diva even after an awesome performance in the Super Bowl when coming back from a broken leg.

83-Steelers-43
08-01-2006, 03:27 PM
As it is, Holmes is trying to catch up on the work he missed in the spring drills. He did stay 30 minutes after practice to catch passes spun out of a portable machine on the field, as Hines Ward watched.

"I talked to Hines and he told me to catch about 50 balls after practice if you don't catch enough in practice," Holmes said. "I caught about 70. I'm just trying to stay in shape and trying to catch the ball from different angles."

Ward has taken a key interest in Holmes.

"Every little thing I do, whether it's right or wrong, he's always there to correct me, tell me to keep working on this or that was a great job making a catch here or a move here and there," Holmes said. "Just a lot of little things that a great receiver will do to help young guys. Just teach them all the things he's learned." - PPG

I think this kid going to be alright. Seems like he's doing a good job of getting his mind off of petty stories that the media and some fans are blowing up (supposedly not calling Ben back) and getting ready for the season. Mentally and physically. It also seems he's taking well to Hines and I believe he is rooming with Quincy Morgan. I have complete faith in both Quincy and Hines to get this kid where he needs to be and from what I'm hearing out of camp it seems like Santonio is working hard on where he needs to be by the start of the season.

If Holmes was on a team with shady characters who don't give a damn what their teammates are like on and off the field (Bengals), then I would be more concerned, but I think he's going to pan out just fine.

DiggetyDank
08-01-2006, 03:46 PM
It sounds like the team is doing exactly the right thing by surrounding him with positive role models (Morgan and Hines). The statement by Santonio that he's staying after and working with Ward is a relief. I think he'll be fine.

83-Steelers-43
08-01-2006, 03:56 PM
Plax 2.0 not calling Ben back is the equivalent of landing your dream job and then getting a call from the CEO and not calling him back.

No, it would be like not calling Rooney or Cowher back.

I would think that Holmes would have called Ben anyway. Seeing as how he was just in a life altering accident the week before.

Did Reid call Ben? Did Philip call Ben? Did Harris call Ben? Did Humes call Ben? Did Colon call Ben? Did Davis call Ben? Did Smith call Ben? Did Jacobs call Ben?

I gave him a pass on the kids. I gave him a pass on the first arrest (sounded like a lot of people were arrested that weekend) but I'm sorry there is no exuse for domestic violence.

Nobody is stating that domestic abuse is a good thing. Many are simply stating that before you start pegging this kid as the next Plaxico, let him play a down of NFL football.

Plus if you read his comments he is in total denial about the situation. He has'nt done a damn thing yet.

He's not in denial, but his lawyer told him to watch what he says in front of the cameras. You do realize that his court date is coming up? You do realize he can incriminate himself if he doesn't watch what he says? The other night on Sports Beat he made that point very clear during an interview.


Ben at least apologized several times to the media and his teamates and his coaches for his trangresions. I havnt seen that from Holmes.

Once again, how many times do you want the kid to apologize? Once isn't enough? http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?p=854567

but he's not starting off very well in my book.

Not many are denying that. That's why many are keeping an eye out on the kid but at the same time realizing you have to give him a chance to prove himself in camp and during the regular season before you can state he's a cancer (Plax).

siss
08-01-2006, 04:53 PM
83-steelers-43 and I are not gunna agree on this topic or many others. Thats fine. I have my thoughts and he has his. Its cool.
But Holmes isnt starting out well with the fans either. Yesterday my friends were at training camp and they are both huge Ohio state fans. They asked Holmes for his Autograph he said "I can't sign them all" and then proceeded to sign everyone around him except for my friend. My friend was wearing the guys jersey. Soem lady in front of him took his football and tried to give it to Holmes to sign and he dtill wouldnt do it.
I'm sorry but thats another strike on his already bad record. Its Plax 2.0 until further notice!

83-Steelers-43
08-01-2006, 05:06 PM
83-steelers-43 and I are not gunna agree on this topic

Nothing wrong with that even though I'm not the only who disagreed with your premature comparison. I'm honored that you chose me out of the twelve other posters who also disagreed. :smile:

or many others.

I can't read the future, so I wouldn't know.

Yesterday my friends were at training camp and they are both huge Ohio state fans. They asked Holmes for his Autograph he said "I can't sign them all" and then proceeded to sign everyone around him except for my friend. My friend was wearing the guys jersey. Soem lady in front of him took his football and tried to give it to Holmes to sign and he dtill wouldnt do it.

I wasn't there to see it. Still don't see how that makes him our future Plaxico, but okay..lol.

I'm sorry but thats another strike on his already bad record.

There's a shocker....lol. Over an autograph supposedly. :rolleyes:

Its Plax 2.0 until further notice!

Which goes back to my first response in this post. :smile:

siss
08-01-2006, 05:16 PM
Nothing wrong with that even though I'm not the only who disagreed with your premature comparison. I'm honored that you chose me out of the twelve other posters who also disagreed.

Oh but you are the most vocal by far!

I really really really want him to prove me wrong on the field...but I also want to cheer for the good guys and im not convinced he's a good guy. Is that so bad?

I promise that when im convinced that his little 'tude has changed and he makes a couple of touchdowns and goes for a couple first downs I will come on here and admitt to how wrong I was. The title of the thread will be Siss eats crow . But until then it's Plax 2.0!

83-Steelers-43
08-01-2006, 05:24 PM
Oh but you are the most vocal by far!

And I'm only one of thirteen who disagreed with your premature statement.

but I also want to cheer for the good guys

Don't we all?

Is that so bad?

Never said it was. I just don't agree with comparing him to a player that has been in the NFL for seven years to a kid who has not played a down of pro-ball yet. Hence, premature judgement.

he makes a couple of touchdowns and goes for a couple first downs I will come on here and admitt to how wrong I was.

The domestic abuse (supposedly) and supposedly not giving your friend an autograph will automatically be erased and forgotten after he "makes a couple of touchdowns and goes for a couple first downs"? Now I see. :sofunny:

siss
08-01-2006, 05:36 PM
Never said it was. I just don't agree with comparing him to a player that has been in the NFL for seven years to a kid who has not played a down of pro-ball yet. Hence, premature judgement.
I'm comparing attitudes not ability!


Ohhhh, I see. But wait, he's "not a good guy". The domestic abuse, supposedly not giving your friend an autograph will automatically be erased and forgotten after he "makes a couple of touchdowns and goes for a couple first downs"? Now I see.

You took what I said out of context. Read the whole post. I did say that when I thought his attitude improves as well. You must have missed taht part of it!

And we're arguing again and its annoying!

83-Steelers-43
08-01-2006, 05:46 PM
I'm comparing attitudes not ability!

So am I. Has Holmes been a cancer in the lockerroom? Has he moaned and complained after a playoff loss in which he dropped an important pass? No.

Know why? Because he hasn't played a down of pro-ball, let alone seven years.


You took what I said out of context. Read the whole post. I did say that when I thought his attitude improves as well. You must have missed taht part of it!

He supposedly did not sign a few autographs and he supposedly did not call Ben back!!! Oh no!!! The sky is falling!!! How dare he!!!

Every statement Holmes has made since he entered camp has been positive. On top of that and most importantly, every statement I have heard and read from Quincy Morgan and Hines Ward pertaining to Holmes has been positive.

And we're arguing again and its annoying!

We are? Strange. I thought it was simple conversation involving two people who happen to not see eye to eye on a certain topic. Should we all agree on every topic and make this board really interesting? I'm sorry that you find it annoying.

Koopa
08-01-2006, 05:55 PM
83-steelers-43 and I are not gunna agree on this topic or many others. Thats fine. I have my thoughts and he has his. Its cool.
But Holmes isnt starting out well with the fans either. Yesterday my friends were at training camp and they are both huge Ohio state fans. They asked Holmes for his Autograph he said "I can't sign them all" and then proceeded to sign everyone around him except for my friend. My friend was wearing the guys jersey. Soem lady in front of him took his football and tried to give it to Holmes to sign and he dtill wouldnt do it.
I'm sorry but thats another strike on his already bad record. Its Plax 2.0 until further notice!


why do fans automaticly think they have to sign stuff? maybe your friends shouldn't have been so pushy and just wait till he got to them........... if i was him i'd tell the ppl to get the f'k off my jock and i'll sign what i want. damn i like holmes more and more, i hope the spurs can get an ass like him on the team. maybe we can be a more likeable team...........and again comparing him to plax is ****ing stupid but good, cause plax was good on the field, sure he had some brain farts in the clutch but i still liked him..........HOLMES FOR R.O.Y.!!

siss
08-01-2006, 05:56 PM
Every statement Holmes has made since he entered camp has been positive. On top of that and most importantly, every statement I have heard and read from Quincy Morgan and Hines Ward pertaining to Holmes has been positive.

Of course those guys are gunna say positive things about him. There team mates. And there talking to the media. They want ot make every thing seem all happy and rosy.

He supposedly did not sign a few autographs
If I remember correctly Ben Roethlisberger signed autographs for 3 hours when he was a rookie. I'm not saying that the sky is falling because he wouldn't sign my friends football...but it doens't look good either. When your a rookie you can't cause drama. You havn't earned that right yet. Its not looking good for Holmes.

siss
08-01-2006, 05:58 PM
why do fans automaticly think they have to sign stuff? maybe your friends shouldn't have been so pushy and just wait till he got to them........... if i was him i'd tell the ppl to get the f'k off my jock and i'll sign what i want. damn i like holmes more and more, i hope the spurs can get an ass like him on the team. maybe we can be a more likeable team
He doesnt have to sign everything. But when you sign everyone around him but him then thats just rude. My friend was not pushy. He was wearing the guys jersey. Its just disapointing thats all.

Koopa
08-01-2006, 06:01 PM
Of course those guys are gunna say positive things about him. There team mates. And there talking to the media. They want ot make every thing seem all happy and rosy.


If I remember correctly Ben Roethlisberger signed autographs for 3 hours when he was a rookie. I'm not saying that the sky is falling because he wouldn't sign my friends football...but it doens't look good either. When your a rookie you can't cause drama. You havn't earned that right yet. Its not looking good for Holmes.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

cause drama??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, omg you crack me up. i think you're just being a drama queen over a small issue. he doesn't have to sign autographs for pushy fans.


He doesnt have to sign everything. But when you sign everyone around him but him then thats just rude. My friend was not pushy. He was wearing the guys jersey. Its just disapointing thats all.


well if he would've waited he might have got one, but noooooooo he has to ask the dude. and that's what he gets for being an OSU fan lol

83-Steelers-43
08-01-2006, 08:24 PM
Of course those guys are gunna say positive things about him. There team mates. And there talking to the media. They want ot make every thing seem all happy and rosy.


If I remember correctly Ben Roethlisberger signed autographs for 3 hours when he was a rookie. I'm not saying that the sky is falling because he wouldn't sign my friends football...but it doens't look good either. When your a rookie you can't cause drama. You havn't earned that right yet. Its not looking good for Holmes.

Who cares what Ben Roethlisberger did! Here's some breaking news for you: Just because Ben did it doesn't mean the rest of the team has to follow. Your obsession with one player is obvious and it shows in your arguments. Sad as that may be, it's very evident.

Haiku_Dirtt
08-02-2006, 05:41 AM
Who cares what Ben Roethlisberger did! Here's some breaking news for you: Just because Ben did it doesn't mean the rest of the team has to follow. Your obsession with one player is obvious and it shows in your arguments. Sad as that may be, it's very evident.

I agree but what COULD complicate matters is that it's not just any player. He's the newly annoited leader but WTF...I'd say bury this whole f---ing discussion. It's getting as pathetic as (fill in the blank) Whether or not our first rounder is an impact player matters less if a guy like Nate or Reid steps up into stardom.

Santonio Holmes is not and will not be the reason this team plays in January and February. And if that is the obsession then it is fruitless. Maybe he'll rock Heinz Field.

Which draft doesn't have a bust? Why piss and moan? Be happy about a 7th rounder from BYU starting. Or 4th rounders starting at linebacker.

Self-imposed moratorium. I'm guilty of perpetuating this distraction. I just want football. I'm jones-ing live games. And then something worthwhile will be a discussion.

tony hipchest
08-02-2006, 06:20 PM
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06213/710093-66.stm

As it is, Holmes is trying to catch up on the work he missed in the spring drills. He did stay 30 minutes after practice to catch passes spun out of a portable machine on the field, as Hines Ward watched.

"I talked to Hines and he told me to catch about 50 balls after practice if you don't catch enough in practice," Holmes said. "I caught about 70. I'm just trying to stay in shape and trying to catch the ball from different angles."

Ward has taken a key interest in Holmes.

"Every little thing I do, whether it's right or wrong, he's always there to correct me, tell me to keep working on this or that was a great job making a catch here or a move here and there," Holmes said. "Just a lot of little things that a great receiver will do to help young guys. Just teach them all the things he's learned."

:cool: