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FightFan27
09-10-2012, 06:32 AM
Like Lebeau the D is old and slow . Looks like Warren Sapp wasn't wrong after all. Collinsworth said it best Manning is shredding them

Millers the sh!t
09-10-2012, 06:37 AM
Manning was surgical last night. I think he had too much time to think and learn last season... Guys out of his mind. Like you.

Ricco Suavez
09-10-2012, 06:37 AM
Chill dude. We lost first game last year but looked much worst. Have a little patience grasshopper.

AgentGold007
09-10-2012, 06:52 AM
Cortez Allen and Keenan Lewis made me miss Big Play Willie Gay.

MDSteel15
09-10-2012, 07:22 AM
Some one block this fool!

Steelers
09-10-2012, 07:47 AM
No excuses! Even if we have a couple of Pro Bowl defenders on the sideline!

steelfury02
09-10-2012, 07:51 AM
I'm trying not to get too low or too high with our chances after 1 game. Would you sit here and say the Jets are favored contenders after 1 game at home against Buffalo's D? No - are they probably a little better than people give them credit for (much like Denver)? You bet.

We aren't as bad as people want us to be. Just hang on for the long haul I say. It's monday damnit, and I just refuse to let the blues get to me:chuckle:

defence
09-10-2012, 07:53 AM
Manning was surgical last night. I think he had too much time to think and learn last season... Guys out of his mind. Like you.

I think the op is actually correct. I've been saying it all year and honestly; they should have got rid of him. His defence is predictable and like last year; they have no pass rush at all.But let's be honest here. Did you guys actually think we could beat the Broncos with Manning as qb when we couldn't do it with Teabow at qb??

isunormalil
09-10-2012, 07:56 AM
Our secondary has been terrible for years. If Ike Taylor is our best corner...we deserve all the passing yards put on us. Taylor is a stud against average receivers/QB's. The elites torch him! I miss the days of Rod Woodson! Imagine Woodson out there with Polamalu.

TRH
09-10-2012, 08:00 AM
thats true....we need to address the secondary...its horrible.

As for Manning being "surgical"...thats no excuse. They're not going to go undefeated and other teams will shut him down. We should have to.
The defense looked very, very slow last night, there seemed to be very little passion on the field.
This defense: slow, sluggish
This defense: consistently gives up the big play
This defense: I'm starting to think we'll never get another INT or fumble recovery

madtowndrunkard
09-10-2012, 09:04 AM
I think the issue has more to do with personnel then the coach. Just last year we were the #1 defense in the league. I think the coaching staff knew we would not be as good this year, this is why we are going back to "control the clock" on offense. It will help our defense because I don't think we are very good right now.

The run defense is not good.... Timmons is soft...he's fast but he can't stuff the run. Our D-line is no where near as good as we used to be. IMO this is the reason we lost... our d-line just didn't get it done... they were able to get blocks on our LB's ...our secondary is not good enough to handle that.

steelerchad
09-10-2012, 09:07 AM
Fact is precision passers usually give us a tough time. Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers. Outside of those guys they usually fare pretty well. The pressure a Harrison and Polamalu with Clark in the lineup could add would have helped.

madtowndrunkard
09-10-2012, 09:18 AM
Fact is precision passers usually give us a tough time. Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers. Outside of those guys they usually fare pretty well. The pressure a Harrison and Polamalu with Clark in the lineup could add would have helped.


Those guys give everyone a tough time... they are good..

steelfury02
09-10-2012, 09:24 AM
and the mere fact that the Packers and Saints also lost yesterday should put some things in perspective. The Giants as well.

Every team in this league is vulnerable. The Packers got cut up by Alex Smith. They have more problems on defense than we do IMHO.

Just look at last year's Bills. 5-2, then 1-8. Anything is possible.

madtowndrunkard
09-10-2012, 09:30 AM
and the mere fact that the Packers and Saints also lost yesterday should put some things in perspective. The Giants as well.

Every team in this league is vulnerable. The Packers got cut up by Alex Smith. They have more problems on defense than we do IMHO.

Just look at last year's Bills. 5-2, then 1-8. Anything is possible.

You speak the truth.... but that's not to say our O-line and D-line is not a legitimate concern. I personally expected our defense to take a step back this year...which is another reason why I am happy to see a new offensive system...that might help our defense. Arians left the defense out to dry in so many games. Arians offense was mistake prone... and still is (watch the colts game)

I think we can be SB contenders but we have to improve up front. Our offensive line is killing us. Our D-line looked almost as bad.

steelfury02
09-10-2012, 09:34 AM
yes, both lines are a concern for me, and after some thought, I'm beginning to see why people are agitated with personnel - other starters need to step it up for this team to succeed. How many of you were praying for Troy to pull off something magical at the line again? Me too. Someone else needs to step up on defense.

Anyone happy with Foote's performance? I thought he stepped it up a notch.

FanSince72
09-10-2012, 09:53 AM
I'm not sure if it was that Manning looked "surgical" or that our "Number One D" looked anesthetized.

We looked like crap out there!

I am totally liking where our running game is headed and I think that will be a thing that gets even better as the season goes on. I also like what I'm seeing in Ben's passing and our receivers look great.

But our Defense?

Let's put it this way: LeBeau turned 75 yesterday and the Defense looked just as old.

Kingmagyar
09-10-2012, 09:57 AM
No excuse for the defensive alignment they were in on the 71 yard TD by D. Thomas. That's all Lebeau, yet again calling a terrible defense. It"s 2nd and 1 and the corners are like 9-10 yards off the receiver. Giving not only Manning an easy throw for a first down but giving blockers the space to meet the DBs downfield to block them. No way does that TD happen if Taylor is in Thomas' face.

What is with playing so far off the receivers? The truth is they need that crutch because they can't cover. I saw it time and again on 3rd and 1s.. And the worst thing is they couldn't tackle when allowing the cushion. Did you notice how close the Denver CBs were to our receivers at the line? Watch next week how close the Jets DBs play.

Keenan Lewis says he is going to be an all pro corner? Has he ever watched an all pro corner play? They sure don't play ten yards off and come up to miss the tackle once the catch is made in front of them.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 10:04 AM
No excuse for the defensive alignment they were in on the 71 yard TD by D. Thomas. That's all Lebeau, yet again calling a terrible defense. It"s 2nd and 1 and the corners are like 9-10 yards off the receiver. Giving not only Manning an easy throw for a first down but giving blockers the space to meet the DBs downfield to block them. No way does that TD happen if Taylor is in Thomas' face.

What is with playing so far off the receivers? The truth is they need that crutch because they can't cover. I saw it time and again on 3rd and 1s.. And the worst thing is they couldn't tackle when allowing the cushion. Did you notice how close the Denver CBs were to our receivers at the line? Watch next week how close the Jets DBs play.

Keenan Lewis says he is going to be an all pro corner? Has he ever watched an all pro corner play? They sure don't play ten yards off and come up to miss the tackle once the catch is made in front of them.

You make valid points. When the Steelers beat the Patriots last year playing more man-to-man I had hope the coaching staff saw a new strength in the defense. But I guess changing things up hurt LeBeau too much inside.

Steelerfreak58
09-10-2012, 10:06 AM
Once again folks...


THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING!....



Steelers always look like dog crap the first game of the season. If you are a fan you should know this by now...

tony hipchest
09-10-2012, 10:13 AM
and the mere fact that the Packers and Saints also lost yesterday should put some things in perspective. The Giants as well.

.know what those 3 teams have in common? they are the last 3 superbowl champions and they all got beat at home. we are the SB champ from 4 years ago, and got beat on the road.

the league wants parity, and they certainly got it.

Steelerfreak58
09-10-2012, 10:15 AM
know what those 3 teams have in common? they are the last 3 superbowl champions and they all got beat at home. we are the SB champ from 4 years ago, and got beat on the road.

the league wants parity, and they certainly got it.

What no way? Parity? Why would anyone want that? You mean with 54 man rosters you can only get so much out of them????

It should be SB's every year man or your team is crap!

Riddle_Of_Steel
09-10-2012, 10:41 AM
Once again folks...


THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING!....

Not the alarmist, but it sure looked that way. Our once stout run defense was missing in action. Troy was a non-factor because the rest of the secondary stinks. Our defensive line got shoved around like little girls-- they ran the same run up the gut through Ziggy's hole like 6 times last night. Sadly enough, the only defensive players that looked like tha game mattered were all the Cowher-era guys-- Foote, Hampton, Kiesel. Ziggy Hood stunk. Chris Carter stunk. Keenan Lewis stunk.

On the bright side, the offense is looking to be what we were expecting, minus the freaking Oline injuries. Somehow, I knew we would be seeing Mike Adams at tackle sooner rather than later-- and not because of his great play.

All in all, losing a close one to Denver & Peyton Manning at their house, with half of our team injured or out, is not the end of the season, but some parts of the team need to get a LOT better if we hope to have a chance against teams like the 49ers or Packers in the postseason.



Steelers always look like dog crap the first game of the season. If you are a fan you should know this by now...[/QUOTE]

They do? That seems to have been a trend that started only last year with that shellacking we received from the Ravens.

Name some other years when the Steelers have come out looking like dog crap to start the year. We won the season opener in 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2002, 2001.

Riddle_Of_Steel
09-10-2012, 10:42 AM
Not the alarmist, but it sure looked that way. Our once stout run defense was missing in action. Troy was a non-factor because the rest of the secondary stinks. Our defensive line got shoved around like little girls-- they ran the same run up the gut through Ziggy's hole like 6 times last night. Sadly enough, the only defensive players that looked like tha game mattered were all the Cowher-era guys-- Foote, Hampton, Kiesel. Ziggy Hood stunk. Chris Carter stunk. Keenan Lewis stunk.

On the bright side, the offense is looking to be what we were expecting, minus the freaking Oline injuries. Somehow, I knew we would be seeing Mike Adams at tackle sooner rather than later-- and not because of his great play.

All in all, losing a close one to Denver & Peyton Manning at their house, with half of our team injured or out, is not the end of the season, but some parts of the team need to get a LOT better if we hope to have a chance against teams like the 49ers or Packers in the postseason.



[QUOTE=Steelerfreak58;1027693]Steelers always look like dog crap the first game of the season. If you are a fan you should know this by now...

They do? That seems to have been a trend that started only last year with that shellacking we received from the Ravens.

Name some other years when the Steelers have come out looking like dog crap to start the year. We won the season opener in 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2002, 2001.

SteeleReign
09-10-2012, 11:53 AM
Our secondary has been terrible for years. If Ike Taylor is our best corner...we deserve all the passing yards put on us. Taylor is a stud against average receivers/QB's. The elites torch him! I miss the days of Rod Woodson! Imagine Woodson out there with Polamalu.

There is some truth to this. Although I think Ike had a Pro-Bowl caliber year last year (until the Denver game), he's not an elite corner. He would be a #2 on most other teams.

However, the Steelers have often masked an average secondary with the ability to crush the opponents QB or at least make him throw early due to pressure from all angles (think the 2005 playoff game against Indy & Manning). Without that pressure, most DBs would have trouble covering against Manning.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 11:55 AM
Without pressure, Revis and the guy with 9 kids couldn't stop Manning....

SteeleReign
09-10-2012, 11:58 AM
All in all, losing a close one to Denver & Peyton Manning at their house, with half of our team injured or out, is not the end of the season, but some parts of the team need to get a LOT better if we hope to have a chance against teams like the 49ers or Packers in the postseason.


I agree. Considering the MASSIVE PILE OF ISSUES, the Steelers had a chance to win in Denver against Manning. Hopefully, the return of a few injured players (including Clark) will spark the D. Then, a little time to let the o-line gel & they're back in the playoffs where anything can happen!:tt03:

SteeleReign
09-10-2012, 11:59 AM
Without pressure, Revis and the guy with 9 kids couldn't stop Manning....

Shawn Kemp? Didn't know he played football? :wink02:

Twentyvalve
09-10-2012, 12:04 PM
"Shredded?" Go look at the stats, I guess Ben "shredded" their D too. I saw a close game with great drives led by 2 great QB's making great passes.

Like Lebeau the D is old and slow . Looks like Warren Sapp wasn't wrong after all. Collinsworth said it best Manning is shredding them

Steelerindc
09-10-2012, 01:30 PM
I have been on the record saying that I hate the way Dick Lebeau secondary plays. I hate the 15 yd cushion they give receivers'.

That being said it' has worked for at least two Super Bowls. I know this defense will get itself together and hopefully this was just a road bump on the way to a successful year.

On another note did anyone notice Bill Cowher's offense out there in the first half. Run, Run, and Pass on 3rd and long. I was saying to myself ..."self, I never thought that I would be missing Bruce Arians".

I wasn't too impressed with the offense last night, most of the big plays came of Ben moving out the pocket. Nothing schematically stuck out to me.

steelfan23
09-10-2012, 01:30 PM
3-4 Defense run by Lebeau has been getting toasted by good QB ever since he came here. It' a bad scheme to stop good QB period. All you need to do is dink and dunk against our corners who play off too much. Brady and Manning and even Warner in SB all showed blueprint to beat it. Dick has not been able to scheme successfully against it. We won two SB but honestly that first one we got some help and Warner destroyed us. If not for that run back by Harrison we lose big in that game. Ben played out of his mind on that last drive against arguably the worst defense in those playoffs. Why Lebeau is put up on a pedestal is beyond me. Every time we play teams with good QB and they don't do what Peyton, Brady, Warner do it is shocking to me. I never understood why EVERY single possession wasn't shotgun, hurry up, spread formation because we have NEVER stopped that attack.

Is it me or is Timmons looking big and slow? Why have Troy (best in box safety) playing 20 yards off the ball? Peyton goes into his no huddle and it looked like it caught Lebeau completely off guard. Really? Didn't see that coming?

I agree with OP. This will be Dick's last season. He hasn't adjusted to today's NFL and I wouldn't be surprised if next DC runs a 4-3.

steelfury02
09-10-2012, 02:06 PM
just no

maddog78
09-10-2012, 02:17 PM
Have to agree. In fact, we've been drafting 4-3 talent since Tomlin took over. Hood and Ta'amu are both 1-gap penetrating DTs, with Woodley and Heyward at DE. Timmons was a prototypical 4-3 OLB coming into the league and has been miscast ever since. Spence and Sly fill out the LB corps.

This soft coverage crap has got to go. Even when a drive doesn't end in a score, it usually ends up flipping field position for our offense.

Steelerfreak58
09-10-2012, 02:50 PM
Not the alarmist, but it sure looked that way. Our once stout run defense was missing in action. Troy was a non-factor because the rest of the secondary stinks. Our defensive line got shoved around like little girls-- they ran the same run up the gut through Ziggy's hole like 6 times last night. Sadly enough, the only defensive players that looked like tha game mattered were all the Cowher-era guys-- Foote, Hampton, Kiesel. Ziggy Hood stunk. Chris Carter stunk. Keenan Lewis stunk.

On the bright side, the offense is looking to be what we were expecting, minus the freaking Oline injuries. Somehow, I knew we would be seeing Mike Adams at tackle sooner rather than later-- and not because of his great play.

All in all, losing a close one to Denver & Peyton Manning at their house, with half of our team injured or out, is not the end of the season, but some parts of the team need to get a LOT better if we hope to have a chance against teams like the 49ers or Packers in the postseason.



Steelers always look like dog crap the first game of the season. If you are a fan you should know this by now...

They do? That seems to have been a trend that started only last year with that shellacking we received from the Ravens.

Name some other years when the Steelers have come out looking like dog crap to start the year. We won the season opener in 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2002, 2001.

Remember that game in Miami? What was the final score 3 to 0 I believe at the half? Or the opener against the Titans the year before that? Sure they were wins but they were pure ugly.

2011 Loss to Ravens 35-7
2010 Over time win Falcons 15-10
2009 Over time win Titans 13-10

Like I said the last few years they have come out flat and struggled.

TheDoctorBeat
09-10-2012, 02:58 PM
I'm not sure if we looked sluggish because it was week one at high altitude, or if we really are getting that old. However, our D-line can't rush worth a damn. It's not like Casey Hampton is gonna move fast, and Ziggy Hood is just atrocious.

It wasn't entirely on Lebeau, it was kind of a perfect storm last night. Peyton was playing like Peyton, and we got destroyed on the quick release passes. We should have come up with an answer, but it's week one and we have the rest of the season to learn. Give it time, and cooler heads will prevail.

jiminpa
09-10-2012, 03:05 PM
Peyton Manning in Denver will be a problem for us. Troy can beat him all night, but he has to be in the box to do so, and we don't have a good backup for Ryan Clark, so we can't afford to put Troy in the box in Denver.

We have to get homefield advantage in the playoffs.

tanda10506
09-10-2012, 04:22 PM
Remember that game in Miami? What was the final score 3 to 0 I believe at the half? Or the opener against the Titans the year before that? Sure they were wins but they were pure ugly.

2011 Loss to Ravens 35-7
2010 Over time win Falcons 15-10
2009 Over time win Titans 13-10

Like I said the last few years they have come out flat and struggled.

IMO this team hasn't been the same since that beat down game 1 last year. They pulled it together last year and got in the playoffs, but they never really seemed to have "it" and didn't go past the first round, losing to an 8-8 team who's QB is barely considered an NFL type QB. The overtime 2010 win was great IMO because we did that without Ben. They followed it up pretty well too. I'm not saying we're going to struggle all year because we lost another home opener, I just haven't seen anything showing we are championship quality since that beat down.

As for LeBeau, it may be time. I admittedly said people were ridiculous for suggesting that last year, but this is a new year and the defense had all the same problems as last year, they just weren't quite as good. Having Clark out this game was huge, as it was the last time we went to Denver, but the defense hasn't looked right since week 1 of last year, and actually started showing their weaknesses in 2010 against the Saints, Packers, and Pats.

I'm sure some of it is the players, and there's no question health has been an issue, but the things that bother me with LeBeau as of late aren't related to that. He WILL NOT make an in game adjustment. We go in with a game plan and it doesn't matter if someone is torching us, we'll keep running it. This game, the Denver game last year, and the Saints and Pats games in 2010 are great examples. Not because we lost, but because we had a failing game plan going in and we stuck with it all the way through. Another thing is that the blitz packages aren't working any more. That may be mostly on the players so I won't comment much on that, but either way it's an issue that the coaching staff needs to figure out and fix, else every elite QB will make a mockery of us. Lastly, I think it's strange and a concern that LeBeau was able to come up with a plan to shut down the Pats last year, yet we have not used it since. Not as a game plan, nor have we switched to it when an offense is picking our zone defense apart. LeBeau's the best IMO, but even the best don't beat father time. I think we'll know the answer by the end of the year.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 04:40 PM
Lastly, I think it's strange and a concern that LeBeau was able to come up with a plan to shut down the Pats last year, yet we have not used it since. Not as a game plan, nor have we switched to it when an offense is picking our zone defense apart.

Deep down, that game against the Patriots must have hurt LeBeau. His usual zone coverage never worked against Brady, but he stubbornly kept trying regardless. Word is Tomlin actually made him switch it up for the Patriot game. Can you believe that? Some 39-year old whipper-snapper telling 74-year old Dick LeBeau how to run his defense. To make it sting more, IT WORKED! That game was a huge blow to LeBeau's pride.

teegre
09-10-2012, 04:52 PM
On defense, name one player in his prime and/or a true playmaker.  

Harrison: injured too often  

Troy:  hasn't been the same since his mid-2010 injury 

Woodley:  unless Harrison is playing, he doesn't seem to consistently do well  

Timmons:  hasn't had back-to-back good games since 2009  

Casey, Foote:  way past their primes 

Clark, Keisel, Ike:  still pretty good, but not great any more  

Hood: sucks  

McClendon, Carter, Worilds, Lewis:  nothing special  

Heyward, Allen:  will eventually be good  

RE-CAP:  That is NO starters playing at a high caliber; and two promising youngsters (Heyward, Allen) who won't even start this year.  

This is not a defense that has Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, Carnell Lake, Rod Woodson, Levon Kirkland, Ray Seals, & Joel Steed.  

This is not a defense that has Joey Porter... and James Farrior, Aaron Smith, Troy, & Ike in their prime.  

SUMMATION:  One can make lemonade out of lemons... but, the Steelers might not even have lemons any more.   

mikegrimey
09-10-2012, 05:02 PM
Deep down, that game against the Patriots must have hurt LeBeau. His usual zone coverage never worked against Brady, but he stubbornly kept trying regardless. Word is Tomlin actually made him switch it up for the Patriot game. Can you believe that? Some 39-year old whipper-snapper telling 74-year old Dick LeBeau how to run his defense. To make it sting more, IT WORKED! That game was a huge blow to LeBeau's pride.

Where are you getting this info from?

It sounds fishy

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 05:06 PM
Where are you getting this info from?

It sounds fishy

Why does it sound fishy? The Steelers are an old-fashioned, stubborn team. They made it perfectly clear last night they want to play granddaddy's football from now on. Why would that be surprising at all?

mikegrimey
09-10-2012, 05:16 PM
Why does it sound fishy? The Steelers are an old-fashioned, stubborn team. They made it perfectly clear last night they want to play granddaddy's football from now on. Why would that be surprising at all?

I meant your tale about Tomlin demanding lebeau change the defense, hurting lebeaus pride

Sounds too weird that you'd know something like that friend

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 05:20 PM
I meant your tale about Tomlin demanding lebeau change the defense, hurting lebeaus pride

Sounds too weird that you'd know something like that friend

I read somewhere Tomlin had LeBeau change things. I don't remember where as it was a long time ago. As for LeBeau's pride, that's just a gut feeling I have. Why else wouldn't LeBeau use more press coverage when his DBs were obviously flourishing from it?

Oh, the next game against Baltimore, Joey had no problem finding open receivers with that cushioning space.

Buddha Bus
09-10-2012, 05:33 PM
http://r28.imgfast.net/users/2815/14/51/45/smiles/1505004552.gif

tanda10506
09-10-2012, 05:37 PM
Deep down, that game against the Patriots must have hurt LeBeau. His usual zone coverage never worked against Brady, but he stubbornly kept trying regardless. Word is Tomlin actually made him switch it up for the Patriot game. Can you believe that? Some 39-year old whipper-snapper telling 74-year old Dick LeBeau how to run his defense. To make it sting more, IT WORKED! That game was a huge blow to LeBeau's pride.

Could be true, but I kind of doubt it. He found a way to beat him, it may not be with the defense he prefers to run, but either way he found a way to beat him. If Tomlin did tell him to change it then I can see how that may have bothered him, but I doubt that happened. Tomlin let Arians call absolute stupidity for years and we haven't made a halftime adjustment to the defensive game plan in recent memory, so I highly doubt he said something to LeBeau.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 05:42 PM
Could be true, but I kind of doubt it. He found a way to beat him, it may not be with the defense he prefers to run, but either way he found a way to beat him. If Tomlin did tell him to change it then I can see how that may have bothered him, but I doubt that happened. Tomlin let Arians call absolute stupidity for years and we haven't made a halftime adjustment to the defensive game plan in recent memory, so I highly doubt he said something to LeBeau.

I'd just like to know why LeBeau doesn't use press-coverage more.

Typical Arians complaint: "He never does what works often enough!"

Perhaps LeBeau should be held to the same standard.

stiller39
09-10-2012, 05:43 PM
Lebeau had DB's 10 yards off the receivers in that zone coverage. Peyton or any good QB loves that open a receiver to throw to... throw in the young DB's not being able to tackle and you have the difference in the game. Lebeau never adjusts to what working or not at halftime....he just sticks to it. He had a great game plan for Brady last year and thats been it for him for a while.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 05:46 PM
Lebeau had DB's 10 yards off the receivers in that zone coverage. Peyton or any good QB loves that open a receiver to throw to... throw in the young DB's not being able to tackle and you have the difference in the game. Lebeau never adjusts to what working or not at halftime....he just sticks to it. He had a great game plan for Brady last year and thats been it for him for a while.

Is he still too caught up in the glory of the 2008 defense? Perhaps he can't see other teams have caught on.

Buddha Bus
09-10-2012, 05:50 PM
Psst..... you guys know we had an awesome defense last year, right?


*Cue Denver playoff game retort*

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 05:51 PM
Psst..... you guys know we had an awesome defense last year, right?


*Cue Denver playoff game retort*

Psst.... you know that defense couldn't force turnovers or get sacks last year, right?

Buddha Bus
09-10-2012, 05:58 PM
Psst.... you know that defense couldn't force turnovers or get sacks last year, right?

They were still great at the best part... keeping points off the board. And I believe the rotating injuries of both Harrison and Woodley contributed to the lack of sacks. Woodley was actually on a sack tear right before his injury.

Show me any team in the NFL who loses their top 2 pass rushers for a majority of the season and doesn't have a lack of sacks and I'll show you a figment of your imagination.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 06:00 PM
They were still great at the best part... keeping points off the board. And I believe the rotating injuries of both Harrison and Woodley contributed to the lack of sacks. Woodley was actually on a sack tear right before his injury.

Show me any team in the NFL who loses their top 2 pass rushers for a majority of the season and doesn't have a lack of sacks and I'll show you a figment of your imagination.

It was a paper defense. It may have been number one as far as yards and points go, but how many big plays did that defense give up? I thought they prided themselves on not giving up big plays.

Oh, and the NFC West and AFC South probably had something to do with that.

maddog78
09-10-2012, 06:04 PM
It was a paper defense. It may have been number one as far as yards and points go, but how many big plays did that defense give up? I thought they prided themselves on not giving up big plays.

Oh, and the NFC West and AFC South probably had something to do with that.

Last year the Steelers led the league in fewest big plays allowed. It was bend don't break, and bolstered by the number of terrible teams that they played.

This year I see them as a middle of the pack type defense. The offense will have to carry us if we're to go anywhere this season, which isn't a very enticing prospect right now.

Buddha Bus
09-10-2012, 06:06 PM
It was a paper defense. It may have been number one as far as yards and points go, but how many big plays did that defense give up? I thought they prided themselves on not giving up big plays.

Oh, and the NFC West and AFC South probably had something to do with that.

I could give a shit if they give up big plays once in awhile as long as they keep points off the board. That's all that matters.

And there is no way a defense ranked as highly as ours can be a "paper defense".

They'll regroup, readjust, and suit up for action and ready to go at home next week just like they did last year. There's no need to panic.

LayingTheWoodley56
09-10-2012, 07:07 PM
Once again folks...


THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING!....



Steelers always look like dog crap the first game of the season. If you are a fan you should know this by now...

Yeah, that's definitely not true. If anything, other than last season I've always felt that we turn in pretty solid performances Week 1 in recent years. We thrashed the Texans the first game of 08, crushed the Titans Week 1 in 05, won with Chazz Batch against the Dolphins in 06. Got taken to OT by the Titans in 09 but rallied to win it. 2010, we won with Dixon against the Falcons when Ben was suspended and our D easily stymied a decent Falcons offense.

Just some examples. And I am a fan, because I didn't look any of that up. Not trying to be a jerk, just pointing out an inaccuracy.

LayingTheWoodley56
09-10-2012, 07:09 PM
By the way, this thread and the one claiming this is Ben's last season in Pittsburgh are the two most classic examples of "post Week 1 panic" I've seen so far. It was one game that we lost to a tough team on the road. Anyone who calls for Dick Lebeau's head should be temporarily suspended from Steeler Nation. Whatever you want to say about how it ended, the man was at the helm of the league's number one defense just last season. Maybe he doesn't have the dominating unit he once did at the moment, but Dick is still better than the vast, vast majority of defensive minds out there.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 07:12 PM
The offense will have to carry us if we're to go anywhere this season, which isn't a very enticing prospect right now.

It'll be better if they actually play to the offense's current strengths instead of playing 70's football.

wera176
09-10-2012, 07:33 PM
Fire Lebeau and trade Ben? JC people, where do you people come from?

:blah::blah::blah:

zcoop
09-10-2012, 07:40 PM
D was terrible but we still should have won the game. We left a couple of TDs on the field and you just can't do that on the road especially in Mile High (With EggHead Manning).

tanda10506
09-10-2012, 08:20 PM
D was terrible but we still should have won the game. We left a couple of TDs on the field and you just can't do that on the road especially in Mile High (With EggHead Manning).

Agreed

The defense last year was not up to par, regardless of what stat they led in or which stats are most important. The point is the defense didn't show up when it mattered i.e. the 2nd Ravens game and the Denver playoff loss. They looked weak against poor teams with poor QB's, not statistically, but realistically, nearly dropping games to the likes of Tyler Palko, Blaine Gabbert, and Seneca Wallace. No stat will convince me that that defense was a Steeler quality defense, and according to comments from Woodley and LeBeau, they feel the same way.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 08:24 PM
Agreed

The defense last year was not up to par, regardless of what stat they led in or which stats are most important. The point is the defense didn't show up when it mattered i.e. the 2nd Ravens game and the Denver playoff loss. They looked weak against poor teams with poor QB's, not statistically, but realistically, nearly dropping games to the likes of Tyler Palko, Blaine Gabbert, and Seneca Wallace. No stat will convince me that that defense was a Steeler quality defense, and according to comments from Woodley and LeBeau, they feel the same way.

Pretty much this. Kool-aid drinkers won't accept that though. They only use the stats that work to their convenience.

steelfan23
09-10-2012, 08:35 PM
On defense, name one player in his prime and/or a true playmaker.  

Harrison: injured too often  

Troy:  hasn't been the same since his mid-2010 injury 

Woodley:  unless Harrison is playing, he doesn't seem to consistently do well  

Timmons:  hasn't had back-to-back good games since 2009  

Casey, Foote:  way past their primes 

Clark, Keisel, Ike:  still pretty good, but not great any more  

Hood: sucks  

McClendon, Carter, Worilds, Lewis:  nothing special  

Heyward, Allen:  will eventually be good  

RE-CAP:  That is NO starters playing at a high caliber; and two promising youngsters (Heyward, Allen) who won't even start this year.  

This is not a defense that has Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, Carnell Lake, Rod Woodson, Levon Kirkland, Ray Seals, & Joel Steed.  

This is not a defense that has Joey Porter... and James Farrior, Aaron Smith, Troy, & Ike in their prime.  

SUMMATION:  One can make lemonade out of lemons... but, the Steelers might not even have lemons any more.   

sorry but you musn't be a true fan if you don't believe our team is the greatest ever. I mean, you just criticized our defense and its players. Go cheer for the Pats or Ravens

sarc off/

jiminpa
09-10-2012, 08:57 PM
Fire Lebeau and trade Ben? JC people, where do you people come from?

:blah::blah::blah:Cleveland, of course.

Just kidding, but really, it just the first game.

jiminpa
09-10-2012, 09:00 PM
The defense has been the whole, entire team for fives years. They had two bad games since the beginning of last season, both in Denver, and we need to fire the best DC in the NFL? Really?

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 09:04 PM
The defense has been the whole, entire team for fives years. They had two bad games since the beginning of last season, both in Denver, and we need to fire the best DC in the NFL? Really?

While I don't think LeBeau should be fired, his defense has become a little too predictable since 2008. The DBs give too much cushioning, and QBs are just dinking and dunking their way down field.

jiminpa
09-10-2012, 09:15 PM
While I don't think LeBeau should be fired, his defense has become a little too predictable since 2008. The DBs give too much cushioning, and QBs are just dinking and dunking their way down field.They've been giving that much cushion for over a decade now, and people have blamed that for everything from not taking the ball away enough to the offense not being able to score points. Yeah, we haven't replaced some of the talent we lost on defense lately, and the offense will have to produce now. This was the first real game and we haven't even hit stride, against the perfect storm of Peyton Manning's comeback and the Denver atmosphere, (actually lack of atmosphere). We still have 15 more games to win.

casteeler
09-10-2012, 09:15 PM
The CBs are clueless! Manning made Taylor and the rest of those nobodys look like complete garbage, thank goodness the F.O beilieved that the inhouse CBs could handle the job! The Pass coverage was the only thin that looked worse than the protection. The Steelers need to do Steeler Nation a favor and find a couple of decent DBs!

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 09:18 PM
The CBs are clueless! Manning made Taylor and the rest of those nobodys look like complete garbage, thank goodness the F.O beilieved that the inhouse CBs could handle the job! The Pass coverage was the only thin that looked worse than the protection. The Steelers need to do Steeler Nation a favor and find a couple of decent DBs!

Blame the lack of pass rush more than the DBs.

FrancoLambert
09-10-2012, 09:18 PM
Peyton Manning in Denver will be a problem for us. Troy can beat him all night, but he has to be in the box to do so, and we don't have a good backup for Ryan Clark, so we can't afford to put Troy in the box in Denver.

We have to get homefield advantage in the playoffs.

From what was exposed last night, I'd sign right now for just making the playoffs.

lardlad
09-10-2012, 09:26 PM
Anyone happy with Foote's performance? I thought he stepped it up a notch.

Foote was real good in the first half.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 09:28 PM
Foote was real good in the first half.

Foote was the only defender with life in the 2nd half.

casteeler
09-10-2012, 09:28 PM
Blame the lack of pass rush more than the DBs.

Ha,Manning only needed 3-4 seconds to complete his passes. Go back and watch the game again if you think it was a pass rush issue

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 09:29 PM
Ha,Manning only needed 3-4 seconds to complete his passes. Go back and watch the game again if you think it was a pass rush issue

If he has 3 to 4 seconds, I would definitely say that's a pass rush problem.....

casteeler
09-10-2012, 09:35 PM
If he has 3 to 4 seconds, I would definitely say that's a pass rush problem.....

So the CBs played well and did not appear to get easily picked apart?You must have been watching a differant game

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 09:36 PM
So the CBs played well and did not appear to get easily picked apart?You must have been watching a differant game

And the pass rushers were effective in the second half?

jiminpa
09-10-2012, 09:42 PM
From what was exposed last night, I'd sign right now for just making the playoffs.Pfffffft, and face Denver in Denver again? Does anyone realize that, as much as I hate the guy, we faced the best play-calling QB of this generation, and were in the game until our own QB made a HUGE mistake, in an offensive battle.

Peyton Manning can chew up any defense, since he will find any mistake and make the most of it. It's what he does. The Steelers can actually stop him sometimes, but not always. Yes, (I hate that I'm saying this), he really is that good. Now he is in Denver where we can't even play one of our safeties, and so can't use the other one to get him muttering to himself, and Troy has lost a step, and can't show blitz and play deep safety anymore. Our offense blinked first. It's understandable. We have a QB who has been babied for the last five years, and has not been pushed to develop, so now, when he should know better, he still makes "sophomore" mistakes. All it took last night was two of them.

This is not a situation we should face very often.

It does, however, highlight exactly why so many of us were so frustrated that we spent the last five years squandering so much offensive talent. Now that we have lost some talent on both sides of the ball, we have problems. Still, we should gain more on offense than we lost on defense.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 09:44 PM
Pfffffft, and face Denver in Denver again? Does anyone realize that, as much as I hate the guy, we faced the best play-calling QB of this generation, and were in the game until our own QB made a HUGE mistake, in an offensive battle.

Peyton Manning can chew up any defense, since he will find any mistake and make the most of it. It's what he does. The Steelers can actually stop him sometimes, but not always. Yes, (I hate that I'm saying this), he really is that good. Now he is in Denver where we can't even play one of our safeties, and so can't use the other one to get him muttering to himself, and Troy has lost a step, and can't show blitz and play deep safety anymore. Our offense blinked first. It's understandable. We have a QB who has been babied for the last five years, and has not been pushed to develop, so now, when he should know better, he still makes "sophomore" mistakes. All it took last night was two of them.

This is not a situation we should face very often.

It does, however, highlight exactly why so many of us were so frustrated that we spent the last five years squandering so much offensive talent. Now that we have lost some talent on both sides of the ball, we have problems. Still, we should gain more on offense than we lost on defense.

Hey ding dong, that "babied" QB won 2 super bowls. I think he knows a thing or two about playing in the NFL. Show some respect, and admit the defense sucked ass.

casteeler
09-10-2012, 09:45 PM
And the pass rushers were effective in the second half?

The CBs didn't show up in ANY quarter! The pass rush was non-existent but I expect more from the Steelers DBs..... I expect more from Any NFL CBs

Bayz101
09-10-2012, 09:47 PM
The CBs didn't show up in ANY quarter! The pass rush was non-existent but I expect more from the Steelers DBs..... I expect more from Any NFL CBs

:cookie:

jiminpa
09-10-2012, 09:48 PM
Hey ding dong, that "babied" QB won 2 super bowls. I think he knows a thing or two about playing in the NFL. Show some respect, and admit the defense sucked ass.
One of the superbowls was before he was being babied, ding dong, and the defense dragged him to the other, and James Harrison scored almost as many points as the whole offense.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 09:50 PM
One of the superbowls was before he was being babied, ding dong, and the defense dragged him to the other, and James Harrison scored almost as many points as the whole offense.

Uh no genius, he bailed the defense out in 43 after they let FItzgerald blow by them. Remember that? Or are you incapable of accepting that Ben is a great QB and the steel curtain is far from perfect?

casteeler
09-10-2012, 09:51 PM
:cookie:

Oh it's a cookie! Ok

Bayz101
09-10-2012, 09:53 PM
Oh it's a cookie! Ok

I give cookies to those who tell it like it is. :chuckle:

Here, you may appreciate this more. :drink:

jiminpa
09-10-2012, 09:57 PM
Uh no genius, he bailed the defense out in 43 after they let FItzgerald blow by them. Remember that? Or are you incapable of accepting that Ben is a great QB and the steel curtain is far from perfect?I'm capable of accepting it, but all I really see is squandered potential. When he gets to greatness, I'll be happy to accept it. Right now he's not quite Mark Brunell in his prime.

So, if the defense makes a single mistake they suck, and if the offense has a single drive in a game they carried the game--I think I got it.

MACH1
09-10-2012, 09:57 PM
I give cookies to those who tell it like it is. :chuckle:

Here, you may appreciate this more. :drink:

And for the rest.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTZqBc6FRJcN07yj_la_pYXRf2WY3hKS AP20B8lEcjP43nVzB99QxHW3C2qZg

Bayz101
09-10-2012, 09:58 PM
And for the rest.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTZqBc6FRJcN07yj_la_pYXRf2WY3hKS AP20B8lEcjP43nVzB99QxHW3C2qZg


:cookie:

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 09:58 PM
I'm capable of accepting it, but all I really see is squandered potential. When he gets to greatness, I'll be happy to accept it. Right now he's not quite Mark Brunell in his prime.

So, if the defense makes a single mistake they suck, and if the offense has a single drive in a game they carried the game--I think I got it.

And when Ben wins, it's always because of the defense - got it. He's no better than Alex Smith.

You don't have turn off the TV during the times when Ben shines you know....

Bayz101
09-10-2012, 10:01 PM
I'm capable of accepting it, but all I really see is squandered potential. When he gets to greatness, I'll be happy to accept it. Right now he's not quite Mark Brunell in his prime.

So, if the defense makes a single mistake they suck, and if the offense has a single drive in a game they carried the game--I think I got it.

:doh::doh:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_zGnH6HWaAi0/S7kBtggIQrI/AAAAAAAAFgY/QYs7D1HWdsI/double_facepalm_tng.jpg

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 10:03 PM
:doh::doh:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_zGnH6HWaAi0/S7kBtggIQrI/AAAAAAAAFgY/QYs7D1HWdsI/double_facepalm_tng.jpg

You would think some people are hoping Ben fails.

Perhaps they are angry the style of football the Steelers played in the 90's, without a franchise QB, was never vindicated with a SB ring. So the only way to make themselves feel better about that era is to put Ben down every chance they get.

jiminpa
09-10-2012, 10:13 PM
And when Ben wins, it's always because of the defense - got it. He's no better than Alex Smith.

You don't have turn off the TV during the times when Ben shines you know....and another thing that irritates me about Roethlisberger fans. He has never single-handedly won any game yet in his career, and never will. Imagine him lining up at center, all alone with no one else on the line, or in the backfield, snapping the ball long snap style, but really high, receiving his own snap, and making a single play, let alone doing it for a whole game. Yes, I know that that means that blame can get spread around too. I'm okay with that. I don't watch the game as a Roethslisberger fan. I watch as a Steelers fan. It changes the perspective a bit. I want to see what gives the team the best long term chance for championships. Yeah, Ben is a good QB, with moments of greatness, but his ego makes him the team's biggest liability sometimes too. It is all about him, so for five years we have been playing for passing stats and expecting the defense to win the games. Last night when he needed to play the gameplan and take what was there, he left at least seven points on the field and gave the other team another seven points trying to be the hero. What did we lose by?

I don't hate him. I don't think he is a bad QB, or even just average. I also haven't seen him realize the greatness that he could have. Great QBs don't have that much talent around them and barely score more than their defenses.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 10:16 PM
and another thing that irritates me about Roethlisberger fans. He has never single-handedly won any game yet in his career, and never will. Imagine him lining up at center, all alone with no one else on the line, or in the backfield, snapping the ball long snap style, but really high, receiving his own snap, and making a single play, let alone doing it for a whole game. Yes, I know that that means that blame can get spread around too. I'm okay with that. I don't watch the game as a Roethslisberger fan. I watch as a Steelers fan. It changes the perspective a bit. I want to see what gives the team the best long term chance for championships. Yeah, Ben is a good QB, with moments of greatness, but his ego makes him the team's biggest liability sometimes too. It is all about him, so for five years we have been playing for passing stats and expecting the defense to win the games. Last night when he needed to play the gameplan and take what was there, he left at least seven points on the field and gave the other team another seven points trying to be the hero. What did we lose by?

I don't hate him. I don't think he is a bad QB, or even just average. I also haven't seen him realize the greatness that he could have. Great QBs don't have that much talent around them and barely score more than their defenses.

Don't worry, I understand you're frustration. You can't get over the Steelers of the 90's didn't with without a franchise QB. When the Steelers got one in Ben and started winning, you and others feel the need to put him down and make him seem irrelevant so yinz can justify the 25 year long drought.

jiminpa
09-10-2012, 10:39 PM
Have you seen my posts about expecting the offense to step it up this year? Yes, I would love for the Steelers to attack what no defense defends anymore, and keep pounding it out four yards at a time, but that won't quite work. Ben is a very good, and still potentially great QB, but his ego exceeds his intelligence, so he needs to feel like he is the whole team, which is why I think his fans think he is the whole team, and you can't get 4 yards a carry without ever passing, or the Steelers of the 90's would have been unstoppable. Ben needs to throw the ball or he gets both bored and cold, so we have to throw a lot. Okay, that can work. Still, we can run a lot if our backs are healthy, which will make the other team have to respect the play action, which makes it easier to pass successfully.

With our backs healthy, we can run the ball, and we can pass the ball, so we should do both. Keep the opposing defenses guessing as much as possible, and usually hammer the short yardage, but not always, again, because it keeps the opponent guessing. Offensively we have been bringing tiddly winks to the chess match way too long.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 10:46 PM
Have you seen my posts about expecting the offense to step it up this year? Yes, I would love for the Steelers to attack what no defense defends anymore, and keep pounding it out four yards at a time, but that won't quite work. Ben is a very good, and still potentially great QB, but his ego exceeds his intelligence, so he needs to feel like he is the whole team, which is why I think his fans think he is the whole team, and you can't get 4 yards a carry without ever passing, or the Steelers of the 90's would have been unstoppable. Ben needs to throw the ball or he gets both bored and cold, so we have to throw a lot. Okay, that can work. Still, we can run a lot if our backs are healthy, which will make the other team have to respect the play action, which makes it easier to pass successfully.

With our backs healthy, we can run the ball, and we can pass the ball, so we should do both. Keep the opposing defenses guessing as much as possible, and usually hammer the short yardage, but not always, again, because it keeps the opponent guessing. Offensively we have been bringing tiddly winks to the chess match way too long.

Where is this big ego Ben has? Can we maybe accept that the guy has matured since the incident in 2010?

Keep in mind Art might have some ego issues as well. Fans don't complain about that.

Ricco Suavez
09-10-2012, 10:53 PM
We will never run like the 90's with this line. We will have to blow the whole cap money on linemen. Then where will you sign bottom dollar players for the rest of the team like WR, LBers, DE's, CBs and a QB with less of an ego. Sorry while running smash mouth makes you or any other fan feel good (that is somewhat of an ego trip also) about your "bad to the bone" team. It is sadly not the formula anymore. Defenses are too good, even the bad ones to let you run over them. It takes a mix of pass, run, play action. All you have to look at is last years SB and you had two teams that were near the top in pass to run ratio. One had a good defense the other not so much. GB beat us the year before without a running game and near the bottom in run defense but they sliced up our defense and caused turnovers, something our number 1 defense has forgotten how to do.

jiminpa
09-10-2012, 10:57 PM
Where is this big ego Ben has? Can we maybe accept that the guy has matured since the incident in 2010?

Keep in mind Art might have some ego issues as well. Fans don't complain about that.Ben's got an ego, no one who has ever encountered him questions that. By all accounts he did learn from the off field incidents, but we saw his ego when Arians was not retained. He doesn't like an OC who understands the roles, and while he is more willing to deal with it, I doubt he likes it.

Art II saw a fatal flaw, identified it, gave Tomlin/Arians/BR two years to fix it, and then attempted to address the problem gracefully. The other egos shouted if from the rooftops. Art may have an ego, but his isn't the one willing to do the opposite of what the owner of the team instructs.

Bayz101
09-10-2012, 10:58 PM
Thread title: Lebeau must go
Discussion: Ben has a giant ego and will never single handedly win a game
Reaction: Facepalm.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 11:00 PM
Ben's got an ego, no one who has ever encountered him questions that. By all accounts he did learn from the off field incidents, but we saw his ego when Arians was not retained. He doesn't like an OC who understands the roles, and while he is more willing to deal with it, I doubt he likes it.

Art II saw a fatal flaw, identified it, gave Tomlin/Arians/BR two years to fix it, and then attempted to address the problem gracefully. The other egos shouted if from the rooftops. Art may have an ego, but his isn't the one willing to do the opposite of what the owner of the team instructs.

An owner who does interviews talking about how his team needs to focus more on the run has an ego. If he feels that way then he should handle it behind closed doors, and not go on a media tour. He also seemed like a big weasel lying about how Arians was released when he should have just been honest from the beginning.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 11:07 PM
Also, sometimes the owner is wrong too.

jiminpa
09-10-2012, 11:07 PM
We will never run like the 90's with this line. We will have to blow the whole cap money on linemen. Then where will you sign bottom dollar players for the rest of the team like WR, LBers, DE's, CBs and a QB with less of an ego. Sorry while running smash mouth makes you or any other fan feel good (that is somewhat of an ego trip also) about your "bad to the bone" team. It is sadly not the formula anymore. Defenses are too good, even the bad ones to let you run over them. It takes a mix of pass, run, play action. All you have to look at is last years SB and you had two teams that were near the top in pass to run ratio. One had a good defense the other not so much. GB beat us the year before without a running game and near the bottom in run defense but they sliced up our defense and caused turnovers, something our number 1 defense has forgotten how to do.Just to be clear. I understand what you are saying and agree, except that I think that it is possible to jam it down other teams' throats, maybe more now than ever. I also agree that I don't want to give up the talent we have to do it. I think that if our best backs are healthy and we actually design plays to give them holes to run through, we can have an offense that can go at a defense at its weaknesses. We have backs that can make something out of nothing, and catch the football. I hope that we give them something to work with now. Use the run to open up the pass and the pass to open up the run, lather, rinse, repeat, or reverse the order, I don't care, as long as we can see this offense really do the magic it is capable of.

jiminpa
09-10-2012, 11:10 PM
Thread title: Lebeau must go
Discussion: Ben has a giant ego and will never single handedly win a game
Reaction: Facepalm.It's a team sport, so no one will single handedly win a game, although it is possible for one player to play so badly that the rest of the team can't make it up.

But you are right about the derailing, sorry.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 11:12 PM
It's a team sport, so no one will single handedly win a game, although it is possible for one player to play so badly that the rest of the team can't make it up.

You just made fun of Ike for his performance in the Wild Card game didn't you?

jiminpa
09-10-2012, 11:25 PM
You just made fun of Ike for his performance in the Wild Card game didn't you?
I really was speaking general terms. I was really thinking more of Cliff Stout, but if you want to picture Ike having a bad game that works too.

Ehurd1021
09-10-2012, 11:27 PM
The blame needs to be put on ownership right along with Dick adjusting to times and getting some CBs who can play man press. We should of signed Carlos Rodgers 2 years ago and Tracy Porter this year

jiminpa
09-10-2012, 11:43 PM
The blame needs to be put on ownership right along with Dick adjusting to times and getting some CBs who can play man press. We should of signed Carlos Rodgers 2 years ago and Tracy Porter this year
And hope to have enough cap room to dig up Jerry Rice 3 years from now? That all sounds good, but you can only spend so much money before you have to commit to being really bad at other positions. The Steelers do well at being just good enough without breaking the cap. We had a cap crisis this year, and don't have enough depth, imagine if we had to pay some big money corners.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 11:44 PM
The blame needs to be put on ownership right along with Dick adjusting to times and getting some CBs who can play man press. We should of signed Carlos Rodgers 2 years ago and Tracy Porter this year

Uh oh..... he blamed ownership too........

We must all be Arians lovers. :coffee:

And actually, go watch the Patriots game from last year. Those CBs can play press-coverage. The problem is LeBeau makes them give receivers cushioning, hoping the QB will eventually make a mistake.

casteeler
09-11-2012, 12:48 AM
I give cookies to those who tell it like it is. :chuckle:

Here, you may appreciate this more. :drink:

Thanks:hatsoff:

Ehurd1021
09-11-2012, 12:53 AM
And hope to have enough cap room to dig up Jerry Rice 3 years from now? That all sounds good, but you can only spend so much money before you have to commit to being really bad at other positions. The Steelers do well at being just good enough without breaking the cap. We had a cap crisis this year, and don't have enough depth, imagine if we had to pay some big money corners.

Its ownership's fault and Colbert for not getting the salary cap straight its been clear for years that we need CBs the ones we have are garbage and are exposed every year by good to great QBs/WRs. The system that Dick runs is old and tired its a dame shame the 49ers and Packers have 4 CBs that could be the #1 CB for the steelers

GoFor7
09-11-2012, 12:57 AM
Its ownership's fault and Colbert for not getting the salary cap straight its been clear for years that we need CBs the ones we have are garbage and are exposed every year by good to great QBs/WRs. The system that Dick runs is old and tired its a dame shame the 49ers and Packers have 4 CBs that could be the #1 CB for the steelers

Personally, right now I think it's more of a bad pass rush and the cushioning space. Ask Revis to play 10 yards off of the receiver on 2nd&1, with no pass rush. See how he does.

tony hipchest
09-11-2012, 01:11 AM
Its ownership's fault and Colbert for not getting the salary cap straight its been clear for years that we need CBs the ones we have are garbage and are exposed every year by good to great QBs/WRs. The system that Dick runs is old and tired its a dame shame the 49ers and Packers have 4 CBs that could be the #1 CB for the steelersthe packers defense has given up an average of 36 points a game in their last 3 games. screw them guys.

Ehurd1021
09-11-2012, 01:11 AM
Personally, right now I think it's more of a bad pass rush and the cushioning space. Ask Revis to play 10 yards off of the receiver on 2nd&1, with no pass rush. See how he does.

I agree with you...And that's why Dick needs to go or change cause hes crippling this defense with bad play calling why the hell would you play 10 to 15 yards off of the Broncos WRs. You play man to force QBs to make perfect throws and when they don't its a pick or knockdown. And if the QB makes a great throw so what you move on. But you don't give QBs like Manning easy throws it gives him confidence and momentum.

Ehurd1021
09-11-2012, 01:20 AM
the packers defense has given up an average of 36 points a game in their last 3 games. screw them guys.

Yea but they get turnovers. All Dom Capers did was take the steelers D and scheme and play Man that's it. Dick is being a stubborn ass old man. You would also think with Tomlin being a ex CBs coach he would tell him to let them boys tighten up.

ricardisimo
09-11-2012, 05:42 AM
I'm going to have as much fun with all of you guys this year as I had with Warren Sapp last year.

IowaSteeler927
09-11-2012, 07:53 AM
Or we could just look at some of the cold hard facts of this game as far as the defense goes. No James Harrison, and no Ryan Clark. That's a huge talent drop off between those two and their respective backups. Dick Lebeau held the the Broncos to under 30 points, the last seven points they got, having been gift wrapped to them by Roethlisberger via a low reward high risk throw.

Pretty good missing two impact players, and going up against a future hall of famer at quarterback with a good set of receivers to throw the ball to.

I just wish people would take into consideration this is the first game of the season. You're gonna have kinks when you bring in a brand new offensive coordinator and you have injuries that affect what you can do on both sides of the ball.

gameface75
09-11-2012, 08:15 AM
As much as I like Dick Lebeau , the defense he runs is to old and very predictable. Every scheme gets figured out over a period of time ,just like the old 46 defense, blitzburg dont work anymore.The teams that rush four guys and get to the opposing QB are living proof that it can be done , if you use the talent properly.

maddog78
09-11-2012, 09:10 AM
As much as I like Dick Lebeau , the defense he runs is to old and very predictable. Every scheme gets figured out over a period of time ,just like the old 46 defense, blitzburg dont work anymore.The teams that rush four guys and get to the opposing QB are living proof that it can be done , if you use the talent properly.

Blitzburgh? Blitzburgh died in the mid-90s. Blitzburgh was corners, safeties, linebackers coming from anywhere and everywhere on any given play.

Now it's 3, 4 man rush with DL who play pattycake with the OL while DBs sit back and wait for the catch.

Zone prevent is more like it.

maddog78
09-11-2012, 09:11 AM
Or we could just look at some of the cold hard facts of this game as far as the defense goes. No James Harrison, and no Ryan Clark. That's a huge talent drop off between those two and their respective backups. Dick Lebeau held the the Broncos to under 30 points, the last seven points they got, having been gift wrapped to them by Roethlisberger via a low reward high risk throw.

Pretty good missing two impact players, and going up against a future hall of famer at quarterback with a good set of receivers to throw the ball to.

I just wish people would take into consideration this is the first game of the season. You're gonna have kinks when you bring in a brand new offensive coordinator and you have injuries that affect what you can do on both sides of the ball.

The Broncos had the ball for 25 minutes and scored 25 points on offense. That's a point a minute, and anything but "pretty good".

steelfury02
09-11-2012, 09:14 AM
the bottom line is the D needed 1 more stop, and it couldn't get it done in this 1 game. That's all I'm saying negatively. Make the stop, straight to the top. Period.

GoFor7
09-11-2012, 10:22 AM
Does anyone think Tomlin would order LeBeau to change the coverage next time they face a top 10 QB? Rumor is he made LeBeau do so against the Patriots last year, but I don't know for sure if that's true.

Darkstorm05
09-11-2012, 10:36 AM
I agree with you...And that's why Dick needs to go or change cause hes crippling this defense with bad play calling why the hell would you play 10 to 15 yards off of the Broncos WRs. You play man to force QBs to make perfect throws and when they don't its a pick or knockdown. And if the QB makes a great throw so what you move on. But you don't give QBs like Manning easy throws it gives him confidence and momentum.

This ties into other aspects of the D, IMO. When Polamalu is standing at the line, do you really trust our CBs to play physical against a WR? In Denver, with Clark out, that would mean you have to trust in Lewis or Brown to not get left in the dust, because the result would be a TD every time. IMO, it's time for Troy to stay deep and give these young CBs the safety net they need to let them confidently challenge a WR off the line, knowing that if they lose the matchup they at least have a safety behind them to help out.

That's the point of a safety, after all. Troy's days of diving over the line for a sack every other play are done. We don't have enough healthy, power rushers to complement him coming up to the line anyway, so it's a bit pointless. IF the stars align, and Troy blitzes, Timmons and Woodley run over their blockers, and Harrison breaks free, then yea, there's a sack. But how often is that really going to happen these days, vs how often we'll get dinked and dunked on with the 10 yard cushion out there?

GoFor7
09-11-2012, 06:08 PM
From Mark Kaboly..... all I have to say is yikes:

Wow, #Steelers LB LaMarr Woodley dropped into coverage how many times?

Plain and simple: The Steelers need to unshackle LaMarr Woodley. With James Harrison out, there was no question that Woodley was the most dominant pass rusher on the roster Sunday against a quarterback that HAS to be pressured -- Peyton Manning. Still, Woodley (he of 48 sacks in 57 career starts) rushed Manning only four … yes, FOUR times, up until there was 9:31 left in the game. Woodley ended up rushing Manning 10 times in the game, but was asked to drop into coverage 10 other times. That’s an unacceptable number, especially with Harrison out. To put that into perspective, Chris Carter, he of no career sacks, rushed Manning just as many times as Woodley. You can’t blame Woodley because he’s just doing what he’s told. What Woodley needs to be told is what Bill Cowher said to Greg Lloyd years ago: “Rush the quarterback.”

PhantomJB93
09-11-2012, 06:58 PM
IDK about LeBeau, but the other night was the first time I seriously doubted Polamalu. He wasn't great by any means last season but I was hoping to chalk it up to a fluke season. Against the Broncos he just looked ridiculously average, and I'm starting to wonder if his time here is almost up. Wouldn't mind seeing a safety drafted next year, I think it's time to start seriously considering his replacement.

And I agree, Woodley was severely underutilized as a rusher. I'm not surprised at all by that stat, he was quiet all game. I know Woodley is a good in coverage for a 3-4 OLB but that doesn't mean it's what we should use him for, especially against Manning, especially with Harrison out. Unlike some of the other guys on defense, Woodley is someone who should only be getting more and more dominant right now.

LeBeau showed he could still adjust when we played the Pats last year, but even then it took several years of getting our butts beat by Brady for him to do that. I don't think he's had the realization that other teams are starting to pick his D apart too and it's time to make some changes.

Millers the sh!t
09-11-2012, 07:54 PM
Once again folks...


THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING!....



Steelers always look like dog crap the first game of the season. If you are a fan you should know this by now...

Besides this year and last year didn't we have a nice streak going with winning the opening game?

GoFor7
09-11-2012, 07:54 PM
LeBeau showed he could still adjust when we played the Pats last year, but even then it took several years of getting our butts beat by Brady for him to do that. I don't think he's had the realization that other teams are starting to pick his D apart too and it's time to make some changes.

That's why some may wonder if it has more to do with LeBeau's pride than anything else.

pete74
09-11-2012, 07:56 PM
i think picking Heyward and Hood in the 1st rounds will hurt us for years. we had 2 great ends who were late picks for years and if your going to select a 3-4 DE in the 1st round he better be one of the best. he better be a game changer like the 49'ers have.

Millers the sh!t
09-11-2012, 07:58 PM
IDK about LeBeau, but the other night was the first time I seriously doubted Polamalu. He wasn't great by any means last season but I was hoping to chalk it up to a fluke season. Against the Broncos he just looked ridiculously average, and I'm starting to wonder if his time here is almost up. Wouldn't mind seeing a safety drafted next year, I think it's time to start seriously considering his replacement.

And I agree, Woodley was severely underutilized as a rusher. I'm not surprised at all by that stat, he was quiet all game. I know Woodley is a good in coverage for a 3-4 OLB but that doesn't mean it's what we should use him for, especially against Manning, especially with Harrison out. Unlike some of the other guys on defense, Woodley is someone who should only be getting more and more dominant right now.

LeBeau showed he could still adjust when we played the Pats last year, but even then it took several years of getting our butts beat by Brady for him to do that. I don't think he's had the realization that other teams are starting to pick his D apart too and it's time to make some changes.

Besides Foote, Troy seemed like the only one playing with fire under his ass.

finesward
09-11-2012, 08:10 PM
i think picking Heyward and Hood in the 1st rounds will hurt us for years. we had 2 great ends who were late picks for years and if your going to select a 3-4 DE in the 1st round he better be one of the best. he better be a game changer like the 49'ers have.

Unfortunately I agree...had such high expectations for these guys and they just straight up are not making the plays 1st rounders are expected to make. So much for ziggy's "transformation" this offseason. So far it hasn't translated to the field as he was quiet all through preseason and against the broncos. Time will tell on these two but really, we need a better push than what we are getting with our d-line.

As far as our D and ol' dick...I sure hope he has something up his sleeve, and I mean quick as the rest of the league has caught wind of how to play like the broncos played against us (and how we tried to play against them) No huddle is going to be the NFL norm this year and for years to come. Brady ran it to perfection, Manning did as well, and Flacco as much as we hate him showed off the ravens answer to the steelers defense.

Our defense, while on paper has looked great, has slowly been degrading over the years, mostly on first down. Now that offenses have had enough film to look at coverages, they simply are playing the no huddle to keep favorable match ups on the field and then taking what we give them. It's happening to a lot of teams this year so we shouldn't take it personal.

Our only hope is that our offense can win enough games for us early so that our defense can figure out a way to bring pressure without showing blitz each time...and that starts back with the D-line. We are paying these LB's like superstars when they simply are not putting any pressure on the QB. The lone bright spot is our LB who is getting paid the least and past his prime...while the other 2 are in theirs...go figure.

Rick5895
09-11-2012, 08:33 PM
I have read this thread with frustration and amusement. Lebeau must go, eh? Don't think so. It's one freakin game and we went into Denver without a probowl safety and probowl LB played Peyton in his first game back after a year with the entire Broncos Coaching staff preparing for us and with Peyton preparing for us. We lost, not because we were necessarily beaten by a better team but because when it came down to it we settled for FG's. A nine minute drive to stat the 3rd Q getting us 3 points was as much of the reason for the loss as anything else. The defense didn't play well at all, but is that Lebeau's scheme or is it execution. We tackled very poorly, we had guys in the backfield or for minimal gains but whiffed on tackles allowing larger gains...and did I mention it was Mannings 1st game in a year and he had all off season to prepare and it was in Denver.
On offense we weren't crisp. Ben missed a wide open Wallace for a TD once,whiffed on a throw to a wide open Heath in the 1st half that would have been a TD.
I think Ben is a great QB and the perfect QB for us but sometimes his throws come out flat. He seems to aim rather than throw. This was a total team loss and it was only one game we will still end up no worse than 11-5. No team is usually as good as they appear week 1 or as bad (unless you're the browns)

For those who over react and think Lebeau must go or that Ben isn't great need to go to the liquor cabinet, pour yourself a drink and relax, this is long season and we are only at week 1.

.....and for those of you that think allowing the fewest points in the NFL is a meaningless stat, take your head out of your ass, that's the only real defensive stat that matters unless your playing fantasy football.

Hawaii 5-0
09-11-2012, 09:30 PM
I have read this thread with frustration and amusement. Lebeau must go, eh? Don't think so. It's one freakin game and we went into Denver without a probowl safety and probowl LB played Peyton in his first game back after a year with the entire Broncos Coaching staff preparing for us and with Peyton preparing for us. We lost, not because we were necessarily beaten by a better team but because when it came down to it we settled for FG's. A nine minute drive to stat the 3rd Q getting us 3 points was as much of the reason for the loss as anything else. The defense didn't play well at all, but is that Lebeau's scheme or is it execution. We tackled very poorly, we had guys in the backfield or for minimal gains but whiffed on tackles allowing larger gains...and did I mention it was Mannings 1st game in a year and he had all off season to prepare and it was in Denver.
On offense we weren't crisp. Ben missed a wide open Wallace for a TD once,whiffed on a throw to a wide open Heath in the 1st half that would have been a TD.
I think Ben is a great QB and the perfect QB for us but sometimes his throws come out flat. He seems to aim rather than throw. This was a total team loss and it was only one game we will still end up no worse than 11-5. No team is usually as good as they appear week 1 or as bad (unless you're the browns)

For those who over react and think Lebeau must go or that Ben isn't great need to go to the liquor cabinet, pour yourself a drink and relax, this is long season and we are only at week 1.

.....and for those of you that think allowing the fewest points in the NFL is a meaningless stat, take your head out of your ass, that's the only real defensive stat that matters unless your playing fantasy football.

$$$$ :thumbsup:

Ehurd1021
09-12-2012, 02:39 AM
I have read this thread with frustration and amusement. Lebeau must go, eh? Don't think so. It's one freakin game and we went into Denver without a probowl safety and probowl LB played Peyton in his first game back after a year with the entire Broncos Coaching staff preparing for us and with Peyton preparing for us. We lost, not because we were necessarily beaten by a better team but because when it came down to it we settled for FG's. A nine minute drive to stat the 3rd Q getting us 3 points was as much of the reason for the loss as anything else. The defense didn't play well at all, but is that Lebeau's scheme or is it execution. We tackled very poorly, we had guys in the backfield or for minimal gains but whiffed on tackles allowing larger gains...and did I mention it was Mannings 1st game in a year and he had all off season to prepare and it was in Denver.
On offense we weren't crisp. Ben missed a wide open Wallace for a TD once,whiffed on a throw to a wide open Heath in the 1st half that would have been a TD.
I think Ben is a great QB and the perfect QB for us but sometimes his throws come out flat. He seems to aim rather than throw. This was a total team loss and it was only one game we will still end up no worse than 11-5. No team is usually as good as they appear week 1 or as bad (unless you're the browns)

For those who over react and think Lebeau must go or that Ben isn't great need to go to the liquor cabinet, pour yourself a drink and relax, this is long season and we are only at week 1.

.....and for those of you that think allowing the fewest points in the NFL is a meaningless stat, take your head out of your ass, that's the only real defensive stat that matters unless your playing fantasy football.
Not true at all... Getting turnovers is more important than points allowed. all give teams a 21 point spot with how good are O is going to be. All take 3 or 4 turnovers not only from a game changing standpoint but momentum

Rick5895
09-12-2012, 04:10 AM
Not true at all... Getting turnovers is more important than points allowed. all give teams a 21 point spot with how good are O is going to be. All take 3 or 4 turnovers not only from a game changing standpoint but momentum

Not true??!! I always thought that allowing less points than your opponent was the way to win. Thanks for clearing that up.

ricardisimo
09-12-2012, 07:10 AM
i think picking Heyward and Hood in the 1st rounds will hurt us for years. we had 2 great ends who were late picks for years and if your going to select a 3-4 DE in the 1st round he better be one of the best. he better be a game changer like the 49'ers have.
I don't agree with this idea as a whole, but certainly with one or the other, especially, I guess, Heyward. Two first rounders out of three for a unit that only consist of three members is odd, to say the least. We could have used a corner or an O-lineman that year, as this last game would seem to suggest. I don't know about setting us back for years... that seems hyperbolic. Watching suck-ass teams like the 49ers and Atlanta turn things around in one year shows that any team can recover immediately.

TRH
09-12-2012, 12:17 PM
there are those around here.......that no matter how s***y the defense plays (and they were utter putrid garbage), they'll still blame it on the offense. Funny...

The defense better shape up. Can they at least look alive out there instead of looking like sleepwalkers?? Is that too much to ask? They looked as if they were napping standing up.

SteelersFever
09-12-2012, 12:21 PM
there are those around here.......that no matter how s***y the defense plays (and they were utter putrid garbage), they'll still blame it on the offense. Funny...

The defense better shape up. Can they at least look alive out there instead of looking like sleepwalkers?? Is that too much to ask? They looked as if they were napping standing up.

I agree it was bad, but I believe we'll look better with Ryan Clark in coverage, and (hopefully) Harrison in the quarterbacks face.

casteeler
09-12-2012, 12:34 PM
I agree it was bad, but I believe we'll look better with Ryan Clark in coverage, and (hopefully) Harrison in the quarterbacks face.

Will that change the fact that the Steelers have ONE decent CB?

jiminpa
09-12-2012, 02:56 PM
Not true??!! I always thought that allowing less points than your opponent was the way to win. Thanks for clearing that up.Apparently, you're still stuck in the 70s.

OX1947
09-12-2012, 04:02 PM
What sucks about the NFL today is the same thing that makes it interesting. A 9-7 team won the Super Bowl last year. Not only that but they beat the Packers, Niners and Pats in consecutive games. I have no idea what to think of this team, none. Going to have to ride the wave until it crashes or not.

Steel_Bus_24
09-12-2012, 04:13 PM
Have to find a way to get pressure on the qb....not necessarily sacks but just something to alter the QBs rhythm a bit

preferably with a 4-Man rush

Rick5895
09-12-2012, 04:37 PM
Apparently, you're still stuck in the 70s.

How am I stuck in the '70's? Simply because I make the obvious point that allowing less points than your opponent gets a win 100% of the time. C'mon man!!

FanSince72
09-12-2012, 05:34 PM
there are those around here.......that no matter how s***y the defense plays (and they were utter putrid garbage), they'll still blame it on the offense. Funny...

The defense better shape up. Can they at least look alive out there instead of looking like sleepwalkers?? Is that too much to ask? They looked as if they were napping standing up.

Not me, the D sucked and that's that.

I guess "Steel Curtain" really doesn't apply anymore.

Maybe the Shower Curtain...The Lace Curtain...

...Drapes?

Ehurd1021
09-13-2012, 04:49 AM
How am I stuck in the '70's? Simply because I make the obvious point that allowing less points than your opponent gets a win 100% of the time. C'mon man!!

The steelers secondary is ass period. Troy has in my opinion took 3 or 4 solid years off of his carer because Dick and Colbert wouldn't go out and get a CB that could lock down one side of the field so Troy wouldn't have to run around like a chicken with his head cut off. Old ass Harrison and Clark are not going to make this a elite D again it took me a long time to come to grips with it but management hurt this team bad. Not the players fault but it is what it is.

jiminpa
09-13-2012, 12:18 PM
How am I stuck in the '70's? Simply because I make the obvious point that allowing less points than your opponent gets a win 100% of the time. C'mon man!!It was satire. There are those on this board who hold the position that passing yards and points are more valuable than rushing yards and points and that anyone who understands football basics is stuck in the 70s.

jiminpa
09-13-2012, 12:22 PM
Not me, the D sucked and that's that.

I guess "Steel Curtain" really doesn't apply anymore.

Maybe the Shower Curtain...The Lace Curtain...

...Drapes?How many points did the Defense give up? How many points did the offense give up?

jim brown
09-13-2012, 12:41 PM
I responded to a comment about Lebeau on the 11th. what happen to it ?? Thank You!!

TheDude
09-13-2012, 12:41 PM
How many points did the Defense give up? How many points did the offense give up?

We talked about this very thing on the last RRPodcast....Not only did Ben's pick put points on the board for Denver, but we also sputtered in the red zone (Ben's under thrown ball to Heath) but also did not capitalize when given a short field after the defense forced a fumble early in the ball game .

The offense did a great job moving the chains and keeping our defense fresh on the sidelines. Ben was masterful moving the chains on 3rd down...we just couldnt put 7's on the board.

Simple as that

Rick5895
09-13-2012, 04:54 PM
It was satire. There are those on this board who hold the position that passing yards and points are more valuable than rushing yards and points and that anyone who understands football basics is stuck in the 70s.

Sorry, I was up early when I saw that and wasn't fully awake, LOL.

jiminpa
09-13-2012, 11:03 PM
Sorry, I was up early when I saw that and wasn't fully awake, LOL.
Cool.

Darthslayrr
09-14-2012, 09:23 AM
With injuries to linebackers maybe time to switch to 4-3

steelfury02
09-14-2012, 09:34 AM
pressure from the amoeba

FanSince72
09-14-2012, 10:33 AM
How many points did the Defense give up? How many points did the offense give up?



The defense gave up 25 points and the offense gave up 6

Is this a trick question or something? :confused:

jiminpa
09-14-2012, 11:36 AM
The defense gave up 25 points and the offense gave up 6

Is this a trick question or something? :confused:No trick, just something to keep it in perspective. You see the people who have been blaming the defense for having such a talented offense that hadn't done its job for five years like to include the blame for the points scored against the offense in their indictment against the defense. We played a very good team, and one key mistake less by either side of the ball for the Steelers and we would have won. That's not bad. It came down to the team with the fewest key mistakes--wasn't us. Pretty much sums up Tomlin's Steelers.

steelfury02
09-14-2012, 11:40 AM
I think the source of Steeler Nation's frustrations is that we'd like to see both sides of the ball dominate - and in today's NFL - that is pretty rare. You are either completely bad, a bubble team, or are great enough on 1 side of the ball. When it all comes down to it, we want to have a playoff spot (pref at home) and be the hottest team no one wants to face

There is always finger pointing in losses (like how I'd like to point out we need a game v. Denver in HEINZ for ONCE GOSH DARNIT!)

"it was a total team effort, if you will"

I won't start gettin pissy unless we lose this Sunday, then you'll see me revert to sky is falling mode . . .

jiminpa
09-14-2012, 11:56 AM
I think the source of Steeler Nation's frustrations is that we'd like to see both sides of the ball dominate - and in today's NFL - that is pretty rare. You are either completely bad, a bubble team, or are great enough on 1 side of the ball. When it all comes down to it, we want to have a playoff spot (pref at home) and be the hottest team no one wants to face

There is always finger pointing in losses (like how I'd like to point out we need a game v. Denver in HEINZ for ONCE GOSH DARNIT!)

"it was a total team effort, if you will"

I won't start gettin pissy unless we lose this Sunday, then you'll see me revert to sky is falling mode . . .Exacty! If we drop to just a top five defense, but the offense starts living up to its potential, we will still be a force to be reconned with.

It just burns me that with an offense for the last five years that was so inexcusably under-reaching, people were blaming the defense, which is the only reason we have succeeded at all for the last five years, and somehow crediting the offense for the once or twice a game that they actually did something product for our side, rather than the other team.

How many times in the last five years did the defense have to push another team out of field goal range because the offense turned the ball over in the other team's red zone? Yet, if the defense allowed even a field goal Ben fans were blaming the defense for not making a crucial stop. For these Ben and Arians fans it didn't matter that the defense scored twice in a game, but the offense had more turnovers than points, the defense sucked and cost us the game if the other team won by a field goal in the fourth quarter.

steelfury02
09-14-2012, 12:09 PM
hrumph, the offense is overdue to carry this team in a big game, hrumph

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_7nQCnPaagKA/TQq7DmT1K3I/AAAAAAAAAII/93gZTx5BYxI/s1600/blazing-saddles-355.jpg

Atlanta Dan
09-14-2012, 12:27 PM
I think the source of Steeler Nation's frustrations is that we'd like to see both sides of the ball dominate - and in today's NFL - that is pretty rare. .You are either completely bad, a bubble team, or are great enough on 1 side of the ball.

I agree with these comments by LeBeau that the league wanting higher scores is something all teams have to deal with are spot on

“If you go back to when I played the points scored have done nothing but go up,” defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau said. “I think it will continue to do so. Those of us who make our living on the defensive side of the ball just have to grin and bear that.

“Everyone is playing with the same rules. That’s the good thing. In the end, it will all figure out. They’re not playing with any different rules in Los Angeles that they’re playing with in New York. It’s all the same throughout the league. If you’re going to ask me if it favors the offense a little bit… I’ll point to that stat right there. That’s not a coincidence. But it’s a good game. People seem to like to watch it. I kind of liked it in the old days when they ran 80 times a game and threw three.”

The Steelers had one of the best defenses of all-time in 2008. The rules haven’t changed all that much since then except for the way the league is cracking down on helmet-to-helmet hits.

LeBeau said that team was special and bucked the ongoing trend of offensive football.

“That’s why I said you won’t get numbers like that again,” he said. “That was very much atypical. Those guys had a fantastic year. They turned the clock back, literally, 25 years. You have to go back 25 years before the league numbers of the leading defenses was where those guys were. I was aware of it because I’m a stat guy. You’re not going to see those kinds of numbers again.

“What you want to do is be competitive and keep your offense in the game. It doesn’t matter what the numbers are. The wins and losses matter and whether you’re keeping your offense in the football game, holding that score down so we can get one more point than the other guy.”

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/118048-ray-lebeau-says-defenses-have-to-qgrin-and-bear-itq

Football is becoming like tennis - you need to hold serve and assume you need to score on every possession - long drives ending in 3 points like the steelers had to staret the second half in Denver are not going to get it done

I won't start gettin pissy unless we lose this Sunday, then you'll see me revert to sky is falling mode . . .

:iagree:

A loss at home to the Jets is when I will start to wonder if we are setting up for a 2003 or 2006 crash and burn

teegre
09-14-2012, 12:58 PM
Exactly.

This is not the 2008 defense, nor the 90s defense, nor the 70s defense. This defense is smack dab in the middle of rules that clearly benefit the offense. A record number of teams (5) scored 40+ points this past weekend. [In comparison, giving up 24 points isn't as bad as first deemed.]

Expecting the Steelers' defense (or ANY team's defense) to be like 2008 will only lead to frustration.

This team will win via their QB.

As far as the sky is falling... if that does occur, I want a top ten LT. Then... watch out!!! This offense would be amaaazing. That said, I expect the 32nd pick.

steelfury02
09-14-2012, 01:04 PM
great to hear bout the 08' defense again, the "clutchness" of that team as a whole was really something special

Even the offense, they scored when they had to.