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View Full Version : Where has our stout run D gone?


LayingTheWoodley56
09-10-2012, 07:19 AM
Since I've been a diehard Steeler fan ('01 when I was like 11 years old), I've never known our run defense to be anything less than an impenetrable wall of defenders. Because of that mindset, I was stunned to see how powerless the guys were last night to stop McGahee or Moreno at the line, behind it, or for minimal game. It's partially because Hood/Heyward/McClendon/old Case/Keisel aren't Smith/Keisel/Hoke/young Case, at least not yet. Who knows if they will ever achieve the stellar level of their predecessors, though.

Chris Carter didn't seem to be much of a factor. Timmons whiffed and took bad angles on a number of big plays. I really don't know what to think of him anymore. Foote actually seemed to be one of our more effective defensive players last night.

That being said, we looked a helluva lot better than we did week 1 last year, and though it ended prematurely we still managed to win 12 ballgames last year. Let's hold off on any snap judgements before we all have to be talked off the ledge. Another game next week, let's get 'em then.

Bayz101
09-10-2012, 07:32 AM
I agree. We certainly seem to be fizzling out defensively. Maybe our Super Bowl defense of '08 has spoiled us? THAT was the Steelers defense that I learned to love. Give it a couple weeks. Once Woodley is heated up and Harrison is back, we should be better.

Fire Haley
09-10-2012, 07:33 AM
Weakest DL we've had in the last 10 years, they got punked, couldn't stop the run or pass and Peyton made LeBeau his bitch. Blitzburgh my ass.

vball
09-10-2012, 08:03 AM
I thought Chris Carter played a poor game. I saw a few plays where I thought if Harrison was in, that would have been stopped for no gain. He was out of position and not in his gap on those plays.

was expecting hood to be a monster from the preseason reports but it didn't happen.

steelfury02
09-10-2012, 08:19 AM
Peyton was able to attack at will, and as the analysts said, I think people can stop questioning if he is his old self or not - he was the field general out there, plain and simple. I would tell any fan of team on their schedule to not take them lightly. That team and its fans have a right to be excited. They'll have a few bumps like any other team, which is why I'm trying so hard not to summarize our Steelers just yet.

You are right, coming into the lion's den, it could have been worse. Bayz - that 08' defense set the bar ridiculously high. I think we can all agree that we would love to have the clutchness and splash-play making abilities of that squad. That is a top 5 Steelers D of all time IMHO.

There are going to be plenty of teams looking at last night's tape and feeling like they might have a shot at attacking a potentially soft middle, and around the edges. I'm a little concerned, but just going to call them a work in progress.

BRING ON WEEK 2.

tony hipchest
09-10-2012, 08:37 AM
denver had 27 rushes for 94 yards. about 3 yards per carry. longest run was 12 yards with another for 11 yards.

our run defense was stout against one of the best running teams from last year.

demaryius thomas beat us, then we beat ourself with an interception trying to play catch up.

Steelers>NFL
09-10-2012, 08:41 AM
On the flip side, I thought Foote played well. Not great. But well. Better than Farrior has played the last 2 years.
Foote is a solid player.

cubanstogie
09-10-2012, 08:42 AM
Run D was fine until the last 2 or 3 series. Altitude could have been factor as well as injuries.

tburhans
09-10-2012, 08:55 AM
There is no excuse for the defense to have played so poorly. The offend had long drives so they had plenty of time to rest and come out and give up a td in two plays is pathetic. I know they played without james and clark but we have several other good players who made no plays last night. Woodley and troy did nothing. Timmons missing tackles and taking bad angles. Dline didn't move an olinemen back all night. Ike got beat by thomas again and lewis got beat by everybody he covered. Cortez allen not much better than lewis. Back to the drawing board for lebeau. hopefully they make some adjustments and play with some pride

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-10-2012, 10:14 AM
Run D wasnt bad, but it really looked weak at the end of the game. I still believe the triangle of Hampton, Foote, Timmons up the middle is a weakness. Foote played well in coverage and rushing, but isnt consistently strong to plug those gaps. Timmons was non-existant and Hampton/McLendon were OK, but the Broncos got angles on them.

SPUTZSTER
09-10-2012, 11:22 AM
Run D wasnt bad, but it really looked weak at the end of the game. I still believe the triangle of Hampton, Foote, Timmons up the middle is a weakness. Foote played well in coverage and rushing, but isnt consistently strong to plug those gaps. Timmons was non-existant and Hampton/McLendon were OK, but the Broncos got angles on them.
Not only was Timmons non-existant, you can add Keisel to the mix. Keisel had one tackle the entire game and that was nine yards down field - forget about any pass rush! I acknowlege there was free substitution for the d-line but he's a starter. How many of Denver's O-line are pro bowl material! Keisel lines up 1 to 1and 1/2 yards off the ball and is consistantly the last d-lineman off the snap. Did you notice his new stance (ass low - looks like he's taking a crap).

stiller39
09-10-2012, 11:43 AM
Foote played stiller D and the rest not. Seems like our D has not been as good since A. Smith left. Lebeau absolutely will not make half time adjustments....

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-10-2012, 11:47 AM
Not only was Timmons non-existant, you can add Keisel to the mix. Keisel had one tackle the entire game and that was nine yards down field - forget about any pass rush! I acknowlege there was free substitution for the d-line but he's a starter. How many of Denver's O-line are pro bowl material! Keisel lines up 1 to 1and 1/2 yards off the ball and is consistantly the last d-lineman off the snap. Did you notice his new stance (ass low - looks like he's taking a crap).

O line doesnt have to be "pro bowl material". Clady is, JD Walton and Beadles are solid players, while Orlando Franklin is a mauler of a RT. Cam Heyward looked good, but Hood and Keisel got handled. Hampton was solid, but not the player he was 5 years ago.

TRH
09-10-2012, 12:10 PM
our defensive backfield was utter crap......our LB'ing corp w/out Harrison (who knows if he'll EVER come back the same) looked lazy and slow (what the hell was Timmons doing out there?)....and our DL is putrid.
Add that all up and other teams can run on us all day, therefore setting up their pass game to succeed. I'd like to be positive, but man...things don't look good at all on the defense side.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-10-2012, 01:32 PM
our defensive backfield was utter crap......our LB'ing corp w/out Harrison (who knows if he'll EVER come back the same) looked lazy and slow (what the hell was Timmons doing out there?)....and our DL is putrid.
Add that all up and other teams can run on us all day, therefore setting up their pass game to succeed. I'd like to be positive, but man...things don't look good at all on the defense side.

I actually think Taylor and Lewis had good coverage most of the night. Problem is that Mundy was barely noticeable as the replacement to Cark. Also, not much pressure on the QB will get you picked apart.

Missing Clark and Harrison is bigger than many think. Sad thing is neither of them have a decent replacement on the roster right now.

tanda10506
09-10-2012, 02:15 PM
I'm not the "sky is falling" type, but I think this team is far away from what they were just a few years ago. It's not "just the first game", it's all of last season and this first game. The defense looked exactly the same as last year, no QB pressure, running defense was mediocre, big plays were given up, huge defensive cushions, no real big plays or key turnovers. That's why I'm concerned, not just because the team wasn't prepared AGAIN on opening day, but because it's the same decline as they were on last year.

The entire D line was mediocre at best, Timmons is looking below average lately, and Woodley for some reason STILL needs time to warm up. I love Woodley, but for the spot he's playing and the contract he has, he shouldn't need multiple games to "warm up". He was a non-factor last night. And maybe the biggest concern is our defensive strategy and scheme. I can't understand why LeBeau thought it was a good idea to give Manning's WR's such big cushions so often. Also, the blitz schemes of the past are no longer working. They didn't last year and they didn't tonight. It would be nice if we could get someone on the D line who at least occasionally beats his man one on one and gets pressure on his own, but either way, when he "sends the house" nothing happens anymore.

I still think they have what it takes to be the best defense in football. A lot of the players from that 2008 defense are still on the team. As some of the vets age or leave, it's obvious that some of our high round draft picks on defense were not that great of picks. That said, they are still serviceable and they are still young, so they definitely still have the opportunity to rise to the occasion. If they do, then we should still be a really solid defense when Harrison is back and Woodley is "warmed up". We didn't have a healthy Woodley/Harrison combo last year with the exception of 2 or 3 games, and we didn't have it last night, so maybe that is a bigger problem then some of us think. Clark was our leading tackler last year, that alone is a huge loss. When you factor in how much he helps Troy and the usually solid play we get from him in coverage on top of that, and it's clear why we look weaker without him. With him and Harrison back I think the defense will be much better, let's hope they step up instead of stepping back like they seemed to do last year.

lloydwoodson
09-10-2012, 02:22 PM
The run D was amazing because Casey Hampton was amazing at playing the run. Not to mention James Farrior. When those two guys were in their prime they made the difference in stopping the run.

Steeldude
09-11-2012, 12:46 AM
Since I've been a diehard Steeler fan ('01 when I was like 11 years old), I've never known our run defense to be anything less than an impenetrable wall of defenders. Because of that mindset, I was stunned to see how powerless the guys were last night to stop McGahee or Moreno at the line, behind it, or for minimal game. It's partially because Hood/Heyward/McClendon/old Case/Keisel aren't Smith/Keisel/Hoke/young Case, at least not yet. Who knows if they will ever achieve the stellar level of their predecessors, though.

Chris Carter didn't seem to be much of a factor. Timmons whiffed and took bad angles on a number of big plays. I really don't know what to think of him anymore. Foote actually seemed to be one of our more effective defensive players last night.

That being said, we looked a helluva lot better than we did week 1 last year, and though it ended prematurely we still managed to win 12 ballgames last year. Let's hold off on any snap judgements before we all have to be talked off the ledge. Another game next week, let's get 'em then.

The run defense has been shaky for quite awhile. Don't let stats fool you.

Steeldude
09-11-2012, 01:07 AM
I love Woodley, but for the spot he's playing and the contract he has, he shouldn't need multiple games to "warm up". He was a non-factor last night

According to some it's ok if he shows up just for a few games. Woodley isn't great. IMO, he is playing in a LB friendly system. I have yet to see anything to justify his huge contract.

The only consistent LB on the Steelers is Harrison. The rest are either average, or they suck or they make a few splash plays once in awhile to keep the gullible fooled. I have defended Timmons too many times. Timmons has not shown he is worth the money he was given either. He should be making things happen. If not for the oldest LB, Harrison, the crew would be very average.

Think about it...Foote is a starter. What does that say?

xbroughneck
09-11-2012, 01:25 AM
If you think the run defense was bad you must have thought we had Scott Shields playing in pass coverage.

Folks...Steelers are going to see why Aaron Smith was so underrated. You couldn't double Harrison or Woodley with a healthy Aaron. The Steelers pass rush hasn't been nearly as consistent without him.

It doesn't help that over the past two years there has been very little game time where both Harrison and Woodley were both 100%.

The Steelers pass coverage has never been good. The past several years the Steelers have been ok giving up the under 10 yard routes because they could get pressure on the QB.

Run D is AVERAGE.

Pass defense and tackling by anyone in our secondary not named Troy and Ryan Clark has been average at best (looking at you ike, Keenan, Ryan Mundy, Cortez )

Steeldude
09-11-2012, 02:05 AM
Folks...Steelers are going to see why Aaron Smith was so underrated. You couldn't double Harrison or Woodley with a healthy Aaron. )

Harrison was consistently doubled and even tripled(at times) with Smith in the lineup. I rarely saw Woodley being doubled with or without Smith in.

IMO, I think they should let Harrison attack from Woodley's side more often. A TE can't handle Harrison. It may be better for Harrison's back and/or knee too.

ricardisimo
09-11-2012, 04:39 AM
I'd like to know why a still gimpy Hampton got the start (as well as what looked to me like the vast majority of the snaps) over supposed wunderkind Steve McLendon. He looked like an absolute beast this preseason... so let's start the guy we nearly cut instead. :noidea:

Fire Haley
09-11-2012, 07:09 AM
Missing Clark and Harrison is bigger than many think. Sad thing is neither of them have a decent replacement on the roster right now.

truth

and it affects the passing D too when you have to bring up safeties to stop the run

Cheatin' Troy got caught with his pants down on the LOS again and left Mundy holding the shit pot again.

Them old of days of tricking offenses with the LeBeau magic are gone...the good QB's have seen it all

steelfury02
09-11-2012, 08:12 AM
If we want the division, you better take a look at the highlights from the Ravens game last night, and see where exactly this team needs to improve - the Ravens looked scary good on both sides of the ball

I think we have what it takes to improve, just saying - they look to be, at least after 1 performance - better than expected IMHO

TRH
09-11-2012, 08:53 AM
According to some it's ok if he shows up just for a few games. Woodley isn't great. IMO, he is playing in a LB friendly system. I have yet to see anything to justify his huge contract.

The only consistent LB on the Steelers is Harrison. The rest are either average, or they suck or they make a few splash plays once in awhile to keep the gullible fooled. I have defended Timmons too many times. Timmons has not shown he is worth the money he was given either. He should be making things happen. If not for the oldest LB, Harrison, the crew would be very average.

Think about it...Foote is a starter. What does that say?



I agree but i'm not so sure we'll ever see a healthy Harrison again.

And is there 2 more LB's more GROSSLY overpaid than Timmons/Woodley in the league?? . It makes me shudder to even think about the gazillions we're paying those 2 and what they're doing on the field to (not)earn it.

steeltheone
09-11-2012, 09:06 AM
I dont think you will see Harrison healthy again, either. It's a shame, probably the last player left with any attitude.