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GoFor7
09-10-2012, 07:51 PM
Fans said Ben needed to stop being selfish. They were thumping their chests that the team was going back to "real Steeler football." Well, you saw it Sunday night. Run, run, pass. Art Rooney II's tribute to his granddaddy. Ben's ego uninvolved.

But was Ben's ego really the problem, or was it Art's ego? Is it his stubborn desire to make sure the 2012 Steelers resemble the 1972 Steelers as much as possible that's really the problem?

So Ben wants to throw more - so what? He has the weapons, and it's an up-tempo passing league. Any QB would want to pass a lot in this offense. Steelers' fans, look around the NFL. Running more does not mean winning more. You're seeing more and more offenses going up-tempo, and defenses are currently having a hard time adjusting.

No, the season is not over because of the loss to Denver. This offense has the weapons to put up points. But the Steelers organization has to come into the 21st century. I said in another thread that this outdated style of football will result in an 8-8 season - I now realize I was being nice. They're sub-.500 if that's Art's game plan every week.

They can correct it though. They can unleash Ben and his weapons early and often in no-huddle, then play ground-n-pound when it's time to close things out. No longer is it about possession (how long did Manning possess in the second half?), it's about scoring touchdowns as much as possible.

Twentyvalve
09-10-2012, 07:58 PM
I don't get it - by all means the offense did outstanding. They controlled the clock, made big 3rd down plays, and scored well against a stout defense. The defense was to fault. We do need big help at the line.

Fans said Ben needed to stop being selfish. They were thumping their chests that the team was going back to "real Steeler football." Well, you saw it Sunday night. Run, run, pass. Art Rooney II's tribute to his granddaddy. Ben's ego uninvolved.

But was Ben's ego really the problem, or was it Art's ego? Is it his stubborn desire to make sure the 2012 Steelers resemble the 1972 Steelers as much as possible that's really the problem?

So Ben wants to throw more - so what? He has the weapons, and it's an up-tempo passing league. Any QB would want to pass a lot in this offense. Steelers' fans, look around the NFL. Running more does not mean winning more. You're seeing more and more offenses going up-tempo, and defenses are currently having a hard time adjusting.

No, the season is not over because of the loss to Denver. This offense has the weapons to put up points. But the Steelers organization has to come into the 21st century. I said in another thread that this outdated style of football will result in an 8-8 season - I now realize I was being nice. They're sub-.500 if that's Art's game plan every week.

They can correct it though. They can unleash Ben and his weapons early and often in no-huddle, then play ground-n-pound when it's time to close things out. No longer is it about possession (how long did Manning possess in the second half?), it's about scoring touchdowns as much as possible.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 08:01 PM
I don't get it - by all means the offense did outstanding. They controlled the clock, made big 3rd down plays, and scored well against a stout defense. The defense was to fault. We do need big help at the line.

Umm.... what were you watching? The play-calling was too conservative and predictable.

How long will it take some of you to realize time of possession isn't that important anymore? Did you not see Peyton Manning score quickly in the no-huddle? It's about SCORING, not possessing.

lardlad
09-10-2012, 08:02 PM
Man... Really the defense got tore up as soon as Denver went no huddle. The offense left points on the board and settled for 3. But cripes man, the defense got owned. It's not Haley's fault. Just like it wasn't Arians' fault in January.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 08:05 PM
Man... Really the defense got tore up as soon as Denver went no huddle. The offense left points on the board and settled for 3. But cripes man, the defense got owned. It's not Haley's fault. Just like it wasn't Arians' fault in January.

I'm not blaming Haley - I'm not sure if that was really want he wanted to do or if Art gave him a mandate to play that way. Considering what Haley did in Arizona, I would think he's not afraid to open it up.

My original post is saying the owner is the problem, not Haley.

Bayz101
09-10-2012, 08:14 PM
Umm.... what were you watching? The play-calling was too conservative and predictable.

How long will it take some of you to realize time of possession isn't that important anymore? Did you not see Peyton Manning score quickly in the no-huddle? It's about SCORING, not possessing.

Umm...what we're you watching? Every time our offense scored, Manning scored in less than half the time. Time of possession IS important because if your defense is worth a SHIT the opposing offense may not have time to score. PERIOD.

Our defense sucked. Bottom line. Offense was fine. Every time the offense punched it in, the defense shit in it's hands. We had TWO sacks on Manning, both of which the offensive line COMPLETELY ignored our rush. They got FIVE sacks on Ben, most of which he was COMPLETELY unblocked and we STILL managed to go into the half with a lead.

If you're blaming the offense for this loss, you need to go back and watch the game again. The DEFENSE is to blame, and I believe the loss of Ryan Clark and lack of Harrison we're BIG contributors.

Bayz101
09-10-2012, 08:16 PM
And as for Art: He hired Haley because Arians sucked, and Haley won't run to please him, he'll run because his last team was a #1 running team.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 08:22 PM
And his team before Kansas City was top five in passing. Do you remember that or are you too busy drinking 40 year old kool-aid? Like it or not, the way this offense is built more-so resembles the 2008 Cardinals than the 2010 Chiefs.

Umm...what we're you watching? Every time our offense scored, Manning scored in less than half the time. Time of possession IS important because if your defense is worth a SHIT the opposing offense may not have time to score. PERIOD.

They should've started earlier in the first-half when the defense actually was effective against Manning. And that's the thing, the defense isn't worth a shit. They need to score more points. IT'S A SCORING LEAGUE, NOT A TIME OF POSSESSION LEAGUE! GET YOUR HEADS OUT OF THE 70'S.

Oh and yes, that defense gets more blame than the offense, but that's exactly why the offense cannot play this outdated style.

Hawaii 5-0
09-10-2012, 08:25 PM
My original post is saying the owner is the problem, not Haley.

Art Rooney II wants to win just as badly as you do, just because you misinterpreted what Art II really said doesn't mean he is the problem why we lost last night.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 08:28 PM
Art Rooney II wants to win just as badly as you do, just because you misinterpreted what Art II really said doesn't mean he is the problem why we lost last night.

Then explain why this team's offense isn't using it's main weapons more and is playing run, run, pass?

Steelersfan87
09-10-2012, 08:32 PM
How about just calming the **** down after one game? I swear, I can't even read message boards the day after a loss.

Hawaii 5-0
09-10-2012, 08:36 PM
How about just calming the **** down after one game? I swear, I can't even read message boards the day after a loss.

then don't...

CargoJon
09-10-2012, 08:38 PM
Then explain why this team's offense isn't using it's main weapons more and is playing run, run, pass?

I was swearing at the TV in the first 2 quarters for just this.

"2 yard Redman" in a cloud of dust. Past on 3rd and 6th. Maybe convert, maybe not. But it was so predictable and bad.

Dwyer should be starting over Redman. Dwyer looked 200x better than Redman.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 08:40 PM
Honestly, I think all of last night's problem on offense are fixable - but they need to understand they aren't a ground-n-pound team, that they are a passing team. Once they do, I think they'll be alright.

The defense..... only time and health will tell.

CargoJon
09-10-2012, 08:42 PM
Honestly, I think all of last night's problem on offense are fixable - but they need to understand they aren't a ground-n-pound team, that they are a passing team. Once they do, I think they'll be alright.

The defense..... only time and health will tell.
No Harrison, no Clark.

Frankly I think Clark's presence was missed more than anything.

I hate Denver. That is all.

Steelersfan87
09-10-2012, 09:03 PM
then don't...

Yeah, I get it, you don't like me. It's still true that message boards are bloated with overreaction every time the team loses, and unless you're one of the people overreacting, it's nauseating for everybody. Timmons sucks, Redman sucks, Ben sucks, Ike sucks, Troy sucks, Woodley sucks, Ziggy sucks, McLendon sucks, Sanders sucks, Starks sucks, Gilbert sucks, Colon sucks, Lewis sucks, Mundy sucks, Haley sucks, LeBeau sucks, Tomlin sucks, Rooney sucks...

lardlad
09-10-2012, 09:06 PM
Then explain why this team's offense isn't using it's main weapons more and is playing run, run, pass?

It does seem that way, but they actually threw the ball 40 times to 26 rushes. The running games was not strong, but Ben could have easily been picked 4 times. Ben tore it up on third down, but left big plays on the field. When the field shortened, they started throwing and had to kick field goals. Maybe our biggest weapons aren't quite that big, or at least we don't have the line to take advantage of our biggest weapons.

Honestly, the run did more than leave you in third and long. Look what happened in the end of the game. When they knew it was passing situations, our line got murdered. The run kept Ben clean most of the night, and was enough to get first downs and even got some points.

95% of the time when you are able to keep Manning off the field for an hour, and get 7 you have a good shot at winning.

This game, IMO, came down to two plays. When the D choked on 70+ yd td, and the pick 6 at the end.

SteelMusic
09-10-2012, 09:12 PM
Fans said Ben needed to stop being selfish. They were thumping their chests that the team was going back to "real Steeler football." Well, you saw it Sunday night. Run, run, pass. Art Rooney II's tribute to his granddaddy. Ben's ego uninvolved.

But was Ben's ego really the problem, or was it Art's ego? Is it his stubborn desire to make sure the 2012 Steelers resemble the 1972 Steelers as much as possible that's really the problem?

So Ben wants to throw more - so what? He has the weapons, and it's an up-tempo passing league. Any QB would want to pass a lot in this offense. Steelers' fans, look around the NFL. Running more does not mean winning more. You're seeing more and more offenses going up-tempo, and defenses are currently having a hard time adjusting.

No, the season is not over because of the loss to Denver. This offense has the weapons to put up points. But the Steelers organization has to come into the 21st century. I said in another thread that this outdated style of football will result in an 8-8 season - I now realize I was being nice. They're sub-.500 if that's Art's game plan every week.

They can correct it though. They can unleash Ben and his weapons early and often in no-huddle, then play ground-n-pound when it's time to close things out. No longer is it about possession (how long did Manning possess in the second half?), it's about scoring touchdowns as much as possible.

http://cdn.styleforum.net/2/27/27c8ea74_archon68_do-not-feed-the-troll.jpg

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 09:13 PM
It does seem that way, but they actually threw the ball 40 times to 26 rushes. The running games was not strong, but Ben could have easily been picked 4 times. Ben tore it up on third down, but left big plays on the field. When the field shortened, they started throwing and had to kick field goals. Maybe our biggest weapons aren't quite that big, or at least we don't have the line to take advantage of our biggest weapons.

The point isn't about how many times they passed vs how much they ran, it's about how ineffective they were running it on early downs. They should have passed more often and not make it so predictable.

Honestly, the run did more than leave you in third and long. Look what happened in the end of the game. When they knew it was passing situations, our line got murdered. The run kept Ben clean most of the night, and was enough to get first downs and even got some points.

That's why they need to go no huddle more. It makes it easier on the offensive line by keeping the other team's defense gassed.

95% of the time when you are able to keep Manning off the field for an hour, and get 7 you have a good shot at winning.

Doesn't matter when you're defense is that bad. Manning showed why time of possession is not as important as it once was. The Broncos are playing in the 21st century, the Steelers should join them soon.

FrancoLambert
09-10-2012, 09:36 PM
Yeah, I get it, you don't like me. It's still true that message boards are bloated with overreaction every time the team loses, and unless you're one of the people overreacting, it's nauseating for everybody. Timmons sucks, Redman sucks, Ben sucks, Ike sucks, Troy sucks, Woodley sucks, Ziggy sucks, McLendon sucks, Sanders sucks, Starks sucks, Gilbert sucks, Colon sucks, Lewis sucks, Mundy sucks, Haley sucks, LeBeau sucks, Tomlin sucks, Rooney sucks...

Truth be told......many of the players you listed DID suck last night.
How'd Redman do? Hmmm....he tiptoes too. Timmons, had a little trouble clogging the middle. Ziggy, did he play? Mundy? Ben admiited he sucked, the underthrow to Heath, the pick six, not seeing Wallace wide open. You forgot Adams, he looked real good for a second round pick, displayed good footwork.

Some people definitely go overboard with their negative analysis but not all criticism is unjustified.

Bayz101
09-10-2012, 09:38 PM
How about just calming the **** down after one game? I swear, I can't even read message boards the day after a loss.

Dodens, what the **** are you doing? Don't your know your supposed to duck? The sky is falling, man!

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 09:42 PM
Anybody watching what the Ravens are doing to the Bengals?

Being that the Steelers have the better QB, I'm pretty sure they can do that too if they stop clinging to the 70's.

Hawaii 5-0
09-10-2012, 10:03 PM
Yeah, I get it, you don't like me. It's still true that message boards are bloated with overreaction every time the team loses, and unless you're one of the people overreacting, it's nauseating for everybody. Timmons sucks, Redman sucks, Ben sucks, Ike sucks, Troy sucks, Woodley sucks, Ziggy sucks, McLendon sucks, Sanders sucks, Starks sucks, Gilbert sucks, Colon sucks, Lewis sucks, Mundy sucks, Haley sucks, LeBeau sucks, Tomlin sucks, Rooney sucks...

you forgot to list Chris "Mr. Great Preseason" Carter. he ended up with one tackle and sucked so badly the Steelers subbed him out late in the 1st quarter.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 10:13 PM
Anybody watching what the Ravens are doing to the Bengals?

Being that the Steelers have the better QB, I'm pretty sure they can do that too if they stop clinging to the 70's.

I'm not asking anyone to slobber over the Ravens, but it should piss you off that the Steelers aren't doing the same, or even better with the talent they have. They aren't worrying about time of possession or how rested their defense is, they're scoring.

If the Ravens, the team that everyone says mirrors the Steelers, are playing in the 21st century, then you know it's time for the Steelers to wake up.

SteelMusic
09-10-2012, 10:19 PM
I'm not asking anyone to slobber over the Ravens, but it should piss you off that the Steelers aren't doing the same, or even better with the talent they have. They aren't worrying about time of possession or how rested their defense is, they're scoring.

If the Ravens, the team that everyone says mirrors the Steelers, are playing in the 21st century, then you know it's time for the Steelers to wake up.

Did you really just quote yourself?

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 10:21 PM
Did you really just quote yourself?

Because I'd like to get other people's thoughts on it. Are you still mad because I dare criticize Art Rooney II?

Anyways, thoughts on my previous post anyone?

defence
09-10-2012, 10:39 PM
Because I'd like to get other people's thoughts on it. Are you still mad because I dare criticize Art Rooney II?

Anyways, thoughts on my previous post anyone?

Man; you should really lighten up and i am saying that not in a bad way. First off; I don't think any of our Steeler fans were pleased with the results last night but shit happens. It's game 1 and to tell you the truth we were very much in position to steal that game last night. As for the play calling; relax; when you have a plan sometimes you got to keep going with it and if it didn't work last night; you keep plugging away. It's an identity change and i believe this will be a good offence when we get mendy back. How about we stop beating up our team and tip our hats to Peyton and the Broncos. He outplayed Ben yesterday and really the pick 6 was the difference no?? The Bronco defence was much better than ours. So we lick our wounds and get ready for the Jets. Hopefully my concerns with the defence will be resolved when we play a qb who is not as good as Manning.

Ricco Suavez
09-10-2012, 10:42 PM
Go For, the points i will concede right away to you.

1. Our play calling last night was not to our strengths.
2. The run game was ineffective.
3. Time of possession was not important. (at least not in last nights game)
4. 19 points last year would of had Arian haters up in arms.

Now for what I think, my opinion, so call me on it.

1. While it looks more and more like the "new" NFL is a scoring bonanza and a pass happy league, the run game is still vital. We just have to use it wisely and timely.
2. The play calling was not great but there was some signs of promise, such as Heath being used more.
3.Our offense was like you said average at best, our defense had me worried more than the offense. We had no answer for Peyton and the Bronco's hurry up.
4. I love me some Ben, But he is going to have to progress in this new offense in seeing his receivers better out of their routes. He is going to have to make quicker decisions. Honestly our best plays were much like last year and that was Ben extended plays and coverage was blown.
5. We had two very important people out on defense, both in places that could of made a big impact. JH to put pressure on Peyton and Clark in the secondary that was toast. We still need some younger guys to step up and be the new "studs" on defense.


Finally I will say just take a deep breath and take a relaxed stance of waiting this week out and see how we react from this opening game. I have posted several times I expect growing pains from this new offense, I was leery of a possible bad start. Its how our team responds now that will dictate our season.

jiminpa
09-10-2012, 10:43 PM
Man; you should really lighten up and i am saying that not in a bad way. First off; I don't think any of our Steeler fans were pleased with the results last night but shit happens. It's game 1 and to tell you the truth we were very much in position to steal that game last night. As for the play calling; relax; when you have a plan sometimes you got to keep going with it and if it didn't work last night; you keep plugging away. It's an identity change and i believe this will be a good offence when we get mendy back. How about we stop beating up our team and tip our hats to Peyton and the Broncos. He outplayed Ben yesterday and really the pick 6 was the difference no?? The Bronco defence was much better than ours. So we lick our wounds and get ready for the Jets. Hopefully my concerns with the defence will be resolved when we play a qb who is not as good as Manning.
Yep!

I think we're looking at a good year. It was Peyton Manning, with the Broncos. His former team went 2-14 as soon as he was gone, and now he is on the team that beat us in the playoffs last year. They deserve credit. It's no shame to lose a close game to a good team playing a good game.

EbonySteel86
09-10-2012, 10:43 PM
The offence did outstanding! You don't wanna go toe to toe with Payton if you don't have to. U keep him off the field as much as possible! The miss td to Miller hurt but the D sucked big time.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 10:55 PM
Go For, the points i will concede right away to you.

1. Our play calling last night was not to our strengths.
2. The run game was ineffective.
3. Time of possession was not important. (at least not in last nights game)
4. 19 points last year would of had Arian haters up in arms.

Now for what I think, my opinion, so call me on it.

1. While it looks more and more like the "new" NFL is a scoring bonanza and a pass happy league, the run game is still vital. We just have to use it wisely and timely.
2. The play calling was not great but there was some signs of promise, such as Heath being used more.
3.Our offense was like you said average at best, our defense had me worried more than the offense. We had no answer for Peyton and the Bronco's hurry up.
4. I love me some Ben, But he is going to have to progress in this new offense in seeing his receivers better out of their routes. He is going to have to make quicker decisions. Honestly our best plays were much like last year and that was Ben extended plays and coverage was blown.
5. We had two very important people out on defense, both in places that could of made a big impact. JH to put pressure on Peyton and Clark in the secondary that was toast. We still need some younger guys to step up and be the new "studs" on defense.


Finally I will say just take a deep breath and take a relaxed stance of waiting this week out and see how we react from this opening game. I have posted several times I expect growing pains from this new offense, I was leery of a possible bad start. Its how our team responds now that will dictate our season.

Ricco, I mostly agree with you on everything. It's not like running is completely dead, but it's complementary to passing. I agree in certain areas there was promise (ala Heath), but it felt like they were holding back on purpose - as if they didn't want to show everything. Yo, when you're in a game, don't hold back, go win.

As for the play calling; relax; when you have a plan sometimes you got to keep going with it and if it didn't work last night; you keep plugging away. It's an identity change and i believe this will be a good offence when we get mendy back.

How about when something isn't working you adjust. Arians took blame for it last year. What identity change do you want? Ground and pound? The strength of the team is the passing - the QB, 3 fast WRs, and Heath Miller. Not Redman, not Dwyer, not even Mendenhall whenever he comes back. Some of you desperately need to accept that.

The offence did outstanding! You don't wanna go toe to toe with Payton if you don't have to. U keep him off the field as much as possible! The miss td to Miller hurt but the D sucked big time.

They did better in the second half, not enough in the first. The first possession was run run pass punt. The second possession, after a turnover forced by the defense around mid-field, was once again run run pass punt.

As for time of possession, Peyton proved that's not as important as you think.

defence
09-10-2012, 11:27 PM
Ricco, I mostly agree with you on everything. It's not like running is completely dead, but it's complementary to passing. I agree in certain areas there was promise (ala Heath), but it felt like they were holding back on purpose - as if they didn't want to show everything. Yo, when you're in a game, don't hold back, go win.



How about when something isn't working you adjust. Arians took blame for it last year. What identity change do you want? Ground and pound? The strength of the team is the passing - the QB, 3 fast WRs, and Heath Miller. Not Redman, not Dwyer, not even Mendenhall whenever he comes back. Some of you desperately need to accept that.



They did better in the second half, not enough in the first. The first possession was run run pass punt. The second possession, after a turnover forced by the defense around mid-field, was once again run run pass punt.

As for time of possession, Peyton proved that's not as important as you think.

Obviously you are correct about everything and I believe you should be inline for the next coaching position in a few weeks when the coaching staff is fired. Just fyi; i never aked for any changes and i can assure you had i asked i doubt anyone would listen to me. With all due respect; it sound like you miss Bruce a bit; you can always flip the channel over to the Colts and watch him destroy Mr Luck!! Take a breath and relax; I'm sure we will be a better balanced offence once everything starts to click. :drink:

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 11:37 PM
Obviously you are correct about everything and I believe you should be inline for the next coaching position in a few weeks when the coaching staff is fired. Just fyi; i never aked for any changes and i can assure you had i asked i doubt anyone would listen to me. With all due respect; it sound like you miss Bruce a bit; you can always flip the channel over to the Colts and watch him destroy Mr Luck!! Take a breath and relax; I'm sure we will be a better balanced offence once everything starts to click. :drink:

Actually, if you've read previous posts of mine in other threads, then you would know I don't think very highly of Arians, but not for the same reasons yinzers do. The yinzers with their heads stuck in the 70's hate Arians because he dared passed more than he ran it. That's acceptable in today's NFL. Balance is meaningless. The Steelers moved the ball between the 20's. Where Arians crapped the bed and horribly underachieved was in the redzone.

But no, don't listen to what I'm saying. Just call me "Airhead Jr." because I don't think run, run, pass, punt is the way the offense should go. How dare I recognize the QB and WRs are the strength of the team and not the RB out of Bowie State! :doh:

By the way, did I mention enough times the offense squandered the opportunity in the first half after a turnover with vanilla play-calling? Maybe unleashing Ben in that area would've changed the dynamic of the game early on.

Nah.... gotta play Stiller Football.

defence
09-10-2012, 11:48 PM
Actually, if you've read previous posts of mine in other threads, then you would know I don't think very highly of Arians, but not for the same reasons yinzers do. The yinzers with their heads stuck in the 70's hate Arians because he dared passed more than he ran it. That's acceptable in today's NFL. Balance is meaningless. The Steelers moved the ball between the 20's. Where Arians crapped the bed and horribly underachieved was in the redzone.

But no, don't listen to what I'm saying. Just call me "Airhead Jr." because I don't think run, run, pass, punt is the way the offense should go. How dare I recognize the QB and WRs are the strength of the team and not the RB out of Bowie State! :doh:

By the way, did I mention enough times the offense squandered the opportunity in the first half after a turnover with vanilla play-calling? Maybe unleashing Ben in that area would've changed the dynamic of the game early on.

Nah.... gotta play Stiller Football.

As i said before. You are right and believe you will be the next coach. You have many options as a fan and some are better than sitting on a computer and bashing your team. Did it ever cross your mind that maybe Denver deserves some credit?? Maybe?? Have you even ever played any sport to understand it?? Bud; I'm not gonna argue with you. You have your beliefs and go with it. Just keep in mind; it's one game; get over it and move on i can assure you the players and coaches already have. Done with this one; cheers and chill; all will be good:tt04:

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 11:54 PM
As i said before. You are right and believe you will be the next coach. You have many options as a fan and some are better than sitting on a computer and bashing your team. Did it ever cross your mind that maybe Denver deserves some credit?? Maybe?? Have you even ever played any sport to understand it?? Bud; I'm not gonna argue with you. You have your beliefs and go with it. Just keep in mind; it's one game; get over it and move on i can assure you the players and coaches already have. Done with this one; cheers and chill; all will be good:tt04:

Sure, Denver deserves credit. Tough place to play, Peyton Manning. But the Steelers wasted opportunities early on. Besides, I've said that the Steelers can fix their issues on offense - if they can let go of past and focus on the present. Got the QB and receivers for it, now the organization has to realize it and accept it.

tony hipchest
09-11-2012, 12:06 AM
[lots of angry stuff].

so what you are saying is the reason the giants, packers, and saints won in week 1 is because they are passing teams who know how to use their weapons and dont try to win with 2 yards and a cloud of dust?

BRILLIANT!!!!

:rolleyes:

GoFor7
09-11-2012, 12:12 AM
yinz yinz yinz run da ball yinz yinz

You're right. They suck just like Ben does. Everyone should go back to three-yards-and-a-cloud of dust. How many teams scored over 40 points in week 1 though?

Say, no one said anything about what the Ravens did to the Bengals. They didn't seemed concerned with balance or time of possession, and with a QB that isn't as good as Ben scored 44 points. Don't any of you think the Steelers are capable of doing the same? Is no one the slightest bit pissed off that the offense was wasting time and possessions in the first half considering the talent they have?

tony hipchest
09-11-2012, 12:28 AM
Is no one the slightest bit pissed off that the offense was wasting time and possessions in the first half considering the talent they have? you mean like mike wallace who finally decided to show up a week ago, just in time to get a few practices in? :jerkit:

it was ONE ****ing gameplan dude, and it was the wrong one. you will get over it eventually. in the meantime, you can take the "yinzer" crap and shove it back up your ass.

conventional wisdom said you play it safe, take the air out the ball, controll the clock and keep peyton manning off the field ESPECIALLY when some of the "talent" they have has been a sack taking turnover machine the past year and a half, known to throw boneheaded interceptions at the most inopportune time (as we witnessed).

unfortunately for the steelers they were not facing manning in the conventional setting. they did him a favor by giving him so much rest.

i was pissed yesterday. im over it now. its not like we just got knocked out of the playoffs by tebow or anything.

GoFor7
09-11-2012, 12:45 AM
you mean like mike wallace who finally decided to show up a week ago, just in time to get a few practices in?

Yeah, Wallace had a real bad game... :jerkit:

conventional wisdom said you play it safe, take the air out the ball, controll the clock and keep peyton manning off the field ESPECIALLY when some of the "talent" they have has been a sack taking turnover machine the past year and a half, known to throw boneheaded interceptions at the most inopportune time (as we witnessed)

You mean the "go into a scared defensive shell" game plan the Steelers always used against the Patriots before 2011? Yeah, that always worked. :coffee:
Say, what happened when they changed up the game plan against the Patriots last year?

Of course you want to highlight the bad more than the good of Ben's career to justify playing yinzer smashmouth more often. But perhaps after the defense forces a turnover at mid-field they should put the pedal to the medal with their two-time SB champ QB?

So no one wants to give their thoughts about the Ravens tonight? I'm not asking anyone to worship Flacco or pet his unibrow. I just want to know what many of you prefer as an offense: what the Steelers did in Denver - worrying about balance and time of possession, or what the Ravens did to the Bengals - using their overall talent to the highest extent and scoring touchdowns, not worrying about time of possession.

Hawaii 5-0
09-11-2012, 12:46 AM
Is no one the slightest bit pissed off that the offense was wasting time and possessions in the first half considering the talent they have?

the Steelers were winning at halftime 10-7.

so no, i wasn't pissed off. unlike you, I don't care how we win...

SteelMusic
09-11-2012, 12:50 AM
you mean like mike wallace who finally decided to show up a week ago, just in time to get a few practices in? :jerkit: ...

It's not like we just got knocked out of the playoffs by tebow or anything.

:hug:

GoFor7
09-11-2012, 12:54 AM
the Steelers were winning at halftime 10-7.

so no, i wasn't pissed off. unlike you, I don't care how we win...

Wow, no one besides me seems to remember the turnover the defense forced at mid-field in the first half? They wasted a possession with run, run, sack on 3rd & long. They could have been up 17-7 going into the half.

For some reason, some of you seem satisfied that they were trying to establish the run instead of taking advantage of a turnover and scoring a TD for a bigger halftime lead.

MACH1
09-11-2012, 12:58 AM
Wow, no one besides me seems to remember the turnover the defense forced at mid-field in the first half? They wasted a possession with run, run, sack on 3rd & long. They could have been up 17-7 going into the half.

For some reason, some of you seem satisfied that they were trying to establish the run instead of taking advantage of a turnover and scoring a TD for a bigger halftime lead.

Why don't you go put your app in for the head coaching position since you seem to know so much about how to score 7 on every possession. :doh:

FIRE TOMLIN

GoFor7
09-11-2012, 01:01 AM
Why don't you go put your app in for the head coaching position since you seem to know so much about how to score 7 on every possession. :doh:

FIRE TOMLIN

Wouldn't matter, Art wouldn't let me pass in that situation anyways. :chuckle:

Seriously guys, do you really want run, run, pass, punt? Can we accept ground-and-pound is no longer the strength of the offense? That it is instead the passing game?

GoFor7
09-11-2012, 01:07 AM
Perhaps Mr. Kaboly can put it better than I can:

Haley needs to adjust

It's one thing to have a balanced attack, but when you have a quarterback like Ben Roethlisberger, you have to put the ball in his hands at all times. And, eventually, Todd Haley is going to realize that. Haley tried to establish a run game early on with Jonathan Dwyer and Isaac Redman against the Broncos and did well putting together long and time-consuming drives. But those drives didn't take advantage of the best athletes on the team -- Roethlisberger, Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders. Until Haley comes to the realization that Roethlisberger playing pickup-style ball is the best way to go, the offense is going to put up 19-point efforts.

SteelMusic
09-11-2012, 01:08 AM
“You need to be able to get the yards that you need on the ground when the defense knows you are running, wherever that falls in the game — if it is a critical short-yardage or if it is a four-minute situation."

- Todd Haley

You'll be glad he's working on that once we get everything running on all cylinders. It'll make Ben's job much easier. :coffee:

GoFor7
09-11-2012, 01:11 AM
You'll be glad he's working on that once we get everything running on all cylinders. It'll make Ben's job much easier. :coffee:

Okay.... but in the meantime they can't let games slip away by wasting downs trying to establish a running game when you already have a great QB. You need to get the old-school mentality out of your heads.

tony hipchest
09-11-2012, 01:21 AM
You're right. They suck just like Ben does. Everyone should go back to three-yards-and-a-cloud of dust. How many teams scored over 40 points in week 1 though?

Say, no one said anything about what the Ravens did to the Bengals. They didn't seemed concerned with balance or time of possession, and with a QB that isn't as good as Ben scored 44 points. Don't any of you think the Steelers are capable of doing the same? Is no one the slightest bit pissed off that the offense was wasting time and possessions in the first half considering the talent they have?

you are clueless. flacco had 29 passes. ben had 40. the ravens had 23 rushes. ray rice scored 2 td's and averaged 6.8 ypc. the ravens were WAY more balanced than the steelers were.

flacco didnt score 44 points. he didnt toss a pick six like ben did either. their defense scored on a pick six.

they settled for 1 fewer fg's than offensive td's.

go press the panic button elsewhere... like on a ravens board. :popcorn:

SteelMusic
09-11-2012, 01:25 AM
Okay.... but in the meantime they can't let games slip away by wasting downs trying to establish a running game when you already have a great QB. You need to get the old-school mentality out of your heads.

I don't think you'll see us running that much against other teams.

Look man, Denver is a good team on both sides of the ball and we were very short handed and still in it until Ben threw a pick six to end the game.

We lost to a damn good team. If Peyton stays healthy they are going to be a problem for the league. We'll be fine, the offense executed it's gameplan, the D didn't. It's as simple as that.

tony hipchest
09-11-2012, 01:35 AM
I don't think you'll see us running that much against other teams.

Look man, Denver is a good team on both sides of the ball and we were very short handed and still in it until Ben threw a pick six to end the game.

We lost to a damn good team. If Peyton stays healthy they are going to be a problem for the league. We'll be fine, the offense executed it's gameplan, the D didn't. It's as simple as that.noble effort trying to talk Gofor7 off the ledge but he is hellbent on dragging this entire board onto the ledge with him. it is his mission (and im starting to think his obsession).

he obviously doesnt remember when todd haley was hired and how he said he would tailor specific gameplans around each and every opponent.

Gofer is paranoid that we will be using the exact same gameplan next week and then the 14 games after that.

but when haley devises a gameplan where ben chucks it all over the field (which he will) gofer will be the one to take credit for the coaching staff listening to him and say he was right all along. :jerkit:

these message board jockeys think they got it all figured out. :coffee:

Hawaii 5-0
09-11-2012, 01:45 AM
You need to get the old-school mentality out of your heads.

:deadhorse:

GoFor7
09-11-2012, 09:43 AM
you are clueless. flacco had 29 passes. ben had 40. the ravens had 23 rushes. ray rice scored 2 td's and averaged 6.8 ypc. the ravens were WAY more balanced than the steelers were.

flacco didnt score 44 points. he didnt toss a pick six like ben did either. their defense scored on a pick six.

they settled for 1 fewer fg's than offensive td's.

go press the panic button elsewhere... like on a ravens board. :popcorn:

Wow, you guys really can't let go of "OMG THREW 40 TIMES DIDN'T WORK!!!!!"

The Ravens didn't waste time and early downs trying to establish the run - they went right to work in attacking the Bengals. There wasn't any predictable play-calling, nor were they obsessed with time of possession. They mixed in the run to keep the Bengals off-based.

Flacco didn't have to worry about tossing picks because they actually handled things earlier on in the game. Perhaps if the Steelers unleash Ben early on they don't have to worry about him tossing a pick six at the end. But no, yinzers want Ben to do nothing all game except hand off. When that doesn't get the job done, and he fails to lead a comeback drive, it's "OMG WHY DIDN'T BEN STEP UP!?"

Also, if running the ball is supposed to keep Ben safe, why was he in so many 3rd & long situations? That's putting him at more risk.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-11-2012, 10:59 AM
The gameplan was a ball possession offense that would keep Manning off the field. That happened, but the Steelers didnt cash in as many TD's as they should have and the Defense without Clark and Harrison was porous.

This offense is far from complete and the O line is already down DeCastro, Gilbert and Foster. Relax people, I didnt expect us to win this game, but was hopefull we would. Things will improve.

GoFor7
09-11-2012, 12:00 PM
This offense is far from complete and the O line is already down DeCastro, Gilbert and Foster. Relax people, I didnt expect us to win this game, but was hopefull we would. Things will improve.

They don't have much time to stay on the learning curve. What happened to not being predictable like Arians? What happened to not putting Ben at risk in 3rd&long situations? If you want to put the pedal to the medal, you gotta unleash Ben early and often. It's a scoring league, not a possession league anymore.

cubanstogie
09-11-2012, 01:10 PM
They don't have much time to stay on the learning curve. What happened to not being predictable like Arians? What happened to not putting Ben at risk in 3rd&long situations? If you want to put the pedal to the medal, you gotta unleash Ben early and often. It's a scoring league, not a possession league anymore.

Bottom line is Haley has the same problems BA had. Below average line and no dominant RB. Don't get me wrong, I am happy for the change in OC.But people who blamed every loss or non scoring drive on BA were in denial. Same line and same RB's mean we aren't going to dominate running game or convert 3rd and 2 by running up the gut no matter who is calling the plays. With that said the Steelers were on the road against a great QB and a solid team and had a chance to win on the last drive. It was a good game and Ben just didn't finish it off like he has many times in the past. Blame it on the injuries to D, or the altitude but the last few drives they had , we were far from the number 1 rated D. Manning won the chess match the last few series. It was a team loss. D didn't play well but Ben missed a bunch of chances.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-11-2012, 01:21 PM
They don't have much time to stay on the learning curve. What happened to not being predictable like Arians? What happened to not putting Ben at risk in 3rd&long situations? If you want to put the pedal to the medal, you gotta unleash Ben early and often. It's a scoring league, not a possession league anymore.

What....does the season end this weekend?? Its a 17 week regular season, so just slowly climb off the ledge and you may be OK. To be safe, please give your shoelaces to a family member.

Steelers dominated the time of possession and kept Manning off the field. They then give up 70 yard runs to Thomas on a flanker screen. Ben throws a pick-6 to Porter when Miller was open over the middle. Go ahead and let Ben throw it 50 times a game and get sacked 8 times a game instead of 5.

I still maintain that the Steelers secondary is painfully weak with Ryan Mundy starting there and if he isnt so much a liability, the Steelers can defend the pass better.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-11-2012, 01:27 PM
D didn't play well but Ben missed a bunch of chances.

How dare you question the chosen one :jawdrop:

You mean the pass Ben short armed on the goal line that ended up a FG??
Do you mean the INT Ben threw instead of hitting Heath Miller over the middle??
Do you mean the open Cotchery on the 10 yard line he threw at the goal post??

Ben is the best QB in the NFL and not even Peyton Manning could make those throws. (or did he :noidea: )

You are missing the point, this is clearly a Todd Haley "3 yards and a cloud of dust" offensive nightmare. We should bring in Mouse Davis and play the Run n' Shoot offense because we have an O-line that is injured, weak and Mike Wallace is worth $12million a season WR.

:sarcasm:

GoFor7
09-11-2012, 01:33 PM
Steelers dominated the time of possession and kept Manning off the field. They then give up 70 yard runs to Thomas on a flanker screen. Ben throws a pick-6 to Porter when Miller was open over the middle. Go ahead and let Ben throw it 50 times a game and get sacked 8 times a game instead of 5.

What part about PREDICTABLE play-calling aren't people understanding? The Steelers did nothing to mix up on first and second down. Art's obsession with run, run, pass put Ben in those 3rd & long situations. Peyton Manning just proved TIME OF POSSESSION MEANS NOTHING IN TODAY'S NFL.

You don't have Ben play game manager early on, then ask him to win the game late when scared defensive shell mode doesn't work. You go up-tempo, no-huddle. Have some more faith in your two-time SB champ QB - I know I have more faith in him than the RB from Bowie State.

The reason Ben got sacked so often before (besides poor o-line play) is that Arians hardly let him run the no-huddle. That tends to tire out the other defense and make it easier on the o-line (just ask the Steelers defense). And when you do mix in running plays, they go for more yardage. Did you not see how Manning was mixing in running plays when he used the no-huddle, after the Steelers defense was gassed? Perhaps instead of running to set up the pass, the Steelers should pass to improve the run.

Nah, too 21st century. :coffee:

MACH1
09-11-2012, 02:29 PM
http://www.demotivationalposters.org/image/demotivational-poster/0810/just-put-a-cork-in-it-demotivational-poster-1223325479.gif

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-11-2012, 03:16 PM
What part about PREDICTABLE play-calling aren't people understanding? The Steelers did nothing to mix up on first and second down. Art's obsession with run, run, pass put Ben in those 3rd & long situations. Peyton Manning just proved TIME OF POSSESSION MEANS NOTHING IN TODAY'S NFL.

You don't have Ben play game manager early on, then ask him to win the game late when scared defensive shell mode doesn't work. You go up-tempo, no-huddle. Have some more faith in your two-time SB champ QB - I know I have more faith in him than the RB from Bowie State.

The reason Ben got sacked so often before (besides poor o-line play) is that Arians hardly let him run the no-huddle. That tends to tire out the other defense and make it easier on the o-line (just ask the Steelers defense). And when you do mix in running plays, they go for more yardage. Did you not see how Manning was mixing in running plays when he used the no-huddle, after the Steelers defense was gassed? Perhaps instead of running to set up the pass, the Steelers should pass to improve the run.

Nah, too 21st century. :coffee:

OK, so you are saying that you could predict the plays?? great, what are the powerball numbers ?

Did you predict Ben throwing it 40 times and Manning throwing it 26 times in the game?? I think the Steelers did pass it quite a bit more than running it.

Are you also saying that the professional athletes on the Steelers defense was tired from spending 11 minutes of the on the field in the 2nd half while the Broncos defense spent almost 2x on the field?

I think you should keep hoping for a Tommy Maddox type offense to come back to Pittsburgh, but don't hold your breath. Steelers will try and run a balanced offense that is not one dimensional.

steelersforever58
09-11-2012, 03:39 PM
The offence did outstanding! You don't wanna go toe to toe with Payton if you don't have to. U keep him off the field as much as possible! The miss td to Miller hurt but the D sucked big time.

I may be in the minority, but I for one don't believe that the d was so terrible. In todays NFL it is very difficult for any defense to hold a great qb to less than 19 points. Without a monster pass rush which the Steelers do not have and have not had for quite sometime, you have to be able to score and score often. Settling for fgs in the red zone won't work. A 9 minute drive that ends in a fg in my mind is a wasted drive. Unless it is a game ender of course. All that being said, yes the d could play better, but if the offense doesn't average around 28 a game it is going to be a very long ugly season with a lot of nailbiters that could go either way.

tony hipchest
09-11-2012, 04:19 PM
What part about PREDICTABLE play-calling aren't people understanding? The Steelers did nothing to mix up on first and second down. Art's obsession with run, run, pass put Ben in those 3rd & long situations. Peyton Manning just proved TIME OF POSSESSION MEANS NOTHING IN TODAY'S NFL.

.

Nah, too 21st century. :coffee:hey mr caps lock, YOU LOSE MORE AND MORE CREDIBILITY every time you say "Art's Obsession".



you have absolutely NO IDEA what goes on inside of the mind of art II, no insight whatsoever. you are clueless, just as is the most of us because none of us knows him and he stays out of the public eye.

"Peytons performance sunday night is the exception, not the rule. you think ben knows when and how to use checkdowns? :sofunny:

he's just now ben introduced to them and he said the different language was like a rosetta stone". manning has had this shit mastered for almost 14 years and 4 unprecedented league MVP awards.

if you think your nintendo play calling is gonna turn him into the next mvp that wins 4 sb's in a row, and wins you every fantasy footbal draft you select him in, then more power to ya! :tt03: i wouldnt expect anything less from a yinzer.

oh, and :shout:- FIRE ROONEY!!!

GoFor7
09-11-2012, 04:48 PM
"Peytons performance sunday night is the exception, not the rule. you think ben knows when and how to use checkdowns?

And this proves how out of touch too many Steelers fans are. Always stuck in the past. Can't accept the way the game has changed. Hey, put the game in the hands of the Bowie State RB and minimize you're franchise QB. Then only when he averages 2 yards/carry, ask you're QB to bail out the team at the very end, and if he doesn't....."BOOOOOOO! HE DIDN'T DO ENOUGH! HE STINKS! BOOOO!"

I'll see if I can find some Star Trek nerds to build you guys a time machine. :chuckle:

Hawaii 5-0
09-11-2012, 04:57 PM
And this proves how out of touch too many Steelers fans are. Always stuck in the past. Can't accept the way the game has changed.

:deadhorse:

teegre
09-11-2012, 04:57 PM
Hey, put the game in the hands of the Bowie State RB . :chuckle:

Small-schools never produce good RBs.  
Sincerely,  
Texas Christian, Jackson State, & San Diego State  

GoFor7
09-11-2012, 04:58 PM
Don't worry though, there's a fix to this all that Todd Haley can do easily.

Get ready......


Are you ready......?


Call plays like he did in Arizona, not Kansas City.

Buddha Bus
09-11-2012, 05:26 PM
he obviously doesnt remember when todd haley was hired and how he said he would tailor specific gameplans around each and every opponent.

Gofer is paranoid that we will be using the exact same gameplan next week and then the 14 games after that.

but when haley devises a gameplan where ben chucks it all over the field (which he will) gofer will be the one to take credit for the coaching staff listening to him and say he was right all along. :jerkit:

these message board jockeys think they got it all figured out. :coffee:


EXACTLY, TONY! A few people are here acting like we're returning to "3 yards and a cloud of dust" 70s ball after ONE frickin' game are hysterical. It was ONE game plan for ONE game. I wish some of these psychics would give me this week's winning lottery numbers so I could quit my shitty job already.

It was a game plan that I happen to think was the right one against Manning, it just didn't work. They attempted to control the clock and keep Peyton off the field to minimize damage and let our defense rest and try to stop the Broncos offense when we needed them to. The defense just didn't get the memo. I'm sure the D will get it together like last year, they're just slow out of the gate again.

I think we will see different game plans for different teams this year, unlike at any time under Arians' watch which will be a breath of fresh air. With Arians, it was his game plan or hari kari no matter what. He wasn't changing for anybody or anything win, lose, or die.

Haley said he'd game plan to our strengths and the opponent's weaknesses. No need to hit the self-destruct button after one failed game plan against one of the greatest NFL QBs of all-time. He'll come up with a different one against a QB challenged team like the Jets this week and it's up to the players to execute like they can and will.

GoFor7
09-11-2012, 05:35 PM
EXACTLY, TONY! All of the people here acting like we're returning to "3 yards and a cloud of dust" 70s ball after ONE frickin' game are hysterical. It was ONE game plan for ONE game. I wish some of these psychics would give me this week's winning lottery numbers so I could quit my shitty job already.

I think the alarming part about it was Haley was very predictable in run, run, pass. Not mixing things up, not taking advantage of the Denver turnover in the first half. The idea was to keep Ben out of 3rd&long situations, and the running game actually put him in more danger.

Now, I keep hearing "40 PASSES! ONLY 26 RUNS!" Yes, but how many of those rushing attempts came in the first half?

You know why Denver did better in the running game? Because they weren't stubbornly trying establish a running early on. The used their primary weapon, Peyton Manning early and often, then mixed in the run using the no-huddle against the gassed Steelers defense.

The Steelers are geared to pass, but why are they stubbornly trying to run and both first and second down early in a game? Maybe, just maybe, if you pass a little more often earlier in the game, you can run a little more later on, and achieve that holy balance you all seek.

StainlessStill
09-11-2012, 05:49 PM
I think the alarming part about it was Haley was very predictable in run, run, pass. Not mixing things up, not taking advantage of the Denver turnover in the first half. The idea was to keep Ben out of 3rd&long situations, and the running game actually put him in more danger.

Now, I keep hearing "40 PASSES! ONLY 26 RUNS!" Yes, but how many of those rushing attempts came in the first half?

You know why Denver did better in the running game? Because they weren't stubbornly trying establish a running early on. The used their primary weapon, Peyton Manning early and often, then mixed in the run using the no-huddle against the gassed Steelers defense.

The Steelers are geared to pass, but why are they stubbornly trying to run and both first and second down early in a game? Maybe, just maybe, if you pass a little more often earlier in the game, you can run a little more later on, and achieve that holy balance you all seek.

15 games left to go, bud. I'm sure we'll live and learn and correct our mistakes. It's all about gradually getting better. You can't put a stamp on how things will be from here on out judging by one game, in week 1, with a new and improved offense. Believe it or not, we're still learning this thing.

Buddha Bus
09-11-2012, 05:50 PM
I think the alarming part about it was Haley was very predictable in run, run, pass. Not mixing things up, not taking advantage of the Denver turnover in the first half. The idea was to keep Ben out of 3rd&long situations, and the running game actually put him in more danger.

How much more danger could he have been in than if Arians was here on 3rd and short going 4 or 5 wide empty backfield set? He was getting killed in those situations more often than not, why not try something different? :hunch:


Now, I keep hearing "40 PASSES! ONLY 26 RUNS!" Yes, but how many of those rushing attempts came in the first half?

They were trying to establish a run game, control the clock (which they did, btw), and keep Manning off the field. If our passing game was the road to victory, then why didn't we win in the second half when the game was close and we were passing more as you allude to?

You know why Denver did better in the running game? Because they weren't stubbornly trying establish a running early on. The used their primary weapon, Peyton Manning early and often, then mixed in the run using the no-huddle against the gassed Steelers defense.

I would guess it was because their o-line was better than ours and we were worried about the pass game with Manning and the fact that Clark wasn't in the secondary which pulls Troy out of run support frequently. That, and James Harrison didn't play. I also don't understand the choice of Hampton over McLendon and the decision to drop Woodley (our only proven pass rusher) into coverage most of the night.

The Steelers are geared to pass, but why are they stubbornly trying to run and both first and second down early in a game? Maybe, just maybe, if you pass a little more often earlier in the game, you can run a little more later on, and achieve that holy balance you all seek.

You do realize they are breaking in a new offensive scheme this year right? There will be growing pains and a lack of confidence early on until they get it down in pressure situations. Ben also has the added obstacle of having to get his timing down again with his #1 WR who missed all of training camp and the preseason.

tanda10506
09-11-2012, 05:50 PM
GoFor7, I agree with some of your points, but you need to understand something: all of us that are asking for a better run game and to run it more often are asking for a more EFFICIENT running game. Sure if you run the ball well you will run it a bit more, but hardly anybody here even wants to run the ball 50/50. Multiple members have explained that to you already, yet you continue to ignore it or not understand it. I haven't seen a member on here ever ask specifically for this 3 yards and a cloud of dust nonsense that you continue to mention. As for myself, I would like to see them run a few more times then they did last year, and be able to pick up yards when doing it regardless if the opposing defense knows we're running or not. From what I've read that's what the majority of us want, efficiency. Again, I agree with you on some of you points, and I'm not trying to insult you, but this whole thread is based on the false premise that you keep using.

tony hipchest
09-11-2012, 05:52 PM
some people should not be allowed to play madden... it goes straight to their heads and clouds reality.

the rest of the league has a 100% td conversion rate off of turn overs.

"we shoulda just started rainey as returner and ran a kick back every punt or KO. that woulda saved everybody ALOT of trouble".

we didnt use out talent! amos is stuck in the 2010's!

GoFor7
09-11-2012, 06:07 PM
How much more danger could he have been in than if Arians was here on 3rd and short going 4 or 5 wide empty backfield set? He was getting killed in those situations more often than not, why not try something different?

So it's okay if any OC other than Arians puts Ben in danger. Got it.

They were trying to establish a run game, control the clock (which they did, btw), and keep Manning off the field. If our passing game was the road to victory, then why didn't we win in the second half when the game was close and we were passing more as you allude to?

They try that against every elite QB they face and it blows up in the Steelers' face. The reason it didn't work was because they didn't let Ben pass earlier in the game more often. They didn't step on the Broncos throat after a turnover in the first half, they were too busy trying to please granddaddy Rooney's spirit. They don't want Ben to do anything in the first half, but then in the last 3 minutes they ask him to bail the team out. Use him earlier, then maybe you can run more often later in the game.

I would guess it was because their o-line was better than ours and we were worried about the pass game with Manning and the fact that Clark wasn't in the secondary which pulls Troy out of run support frequently. That, and James Harrison didn't play. I also don't understand the choice of Hampton over McLendon.

And the Broncos weren't worried about time of possession, they were scoring touchdown quickly. See, it's not an offense's job to worry about how much rest its defense gets. It's an offense's job to score. Three quick, 80 yard scoring drives for Denver. Seems like the Broncos had their priorities aligned with 21st century football.

You do realize they are breaking in a new offensive scheme this year right? There will be growing pains and a lack of confidence early on until they get it down in pressure situations. Ben also has the added obstacle of having to get his timing down again with his #1 WR who missed all of training camp and the preseason.

Yet, the Steelers still think the RB from Bowie State is a more effective weapon then their franchise QB, his 3 WRs, and TE. Let Ben go to work early and get in a rhythm with his weapons instead of waiting until the last 3 minutes of the game.

GoFor7, I agree with some of your points, but you need to understand something: all of us that are asking for a better run game that runs the ball more often are asking for a more EFFICIENT running game. Sure if you run the ball well you will run it a bit more, but hardly anybody here even wants to run the ball 50/50. Multiple members have explained that to you already, yet you continue to ignore it or not understand it. I haven't seen a member on here ever ask specifically for this 3 yards and a cloud of dust nonsense that you continue to mention. Again, I agree with you on some of you points, and I'm not trying to insult you, but this whole thread is based on the false premise that you keep using

More efficient doesn't mean stubbornly pounding it when Redman is averaging less than 2 yds/carry. More efficient doesn't mean being predictable and not using any play-action on first or second down or no-huddle earlier in the game.

I've been pointing out that Haley wasn't afraid to pass in Arizona given all the weapons he had there. Well, here he is in Pittsburgh and the offense is built similarly. So why under-use them? Why not let your QB thrive more often in the no huddle? One might think he has a mandate to run from the owner, given the fact Art has been preaching it all offseason.

Right now, the Steelers seem to be an organization that thinks their old-school style is right and everyone else is wrong. You can have the preference of 70's smashmouth football if you want, but if you're losing and everyone else is winning playing 21st century football, then you're wrong.

Hopefully I'm wrong by next week.

MACH1
09-11-2012, 06:07 PM
some people should not be allowed to play madden... it goes straight to their heads and clouds reality.

the rest of the league has a 100% td conversion rate off of turn overs.

"we shoulda just started rainey as returner and ran a kick back every punt or KO. that woulda saved everybody ALOT of trouble".

we didnt use out talent! amos is stuck in the 2010's!

Face it tony your just Livinginthe past. :chuckle:

Buddha Bus
09-11-2012, 06:12 PM
Face it tony your just Livinginthe past. :chuckle:



http://www.cu2nite.com.au/ldc/images/products/80S%20MENS%20POP%20STAR%20WIG.jpg

Tony Hipchest (circa 20 minutes ago)


:chuckle:

Chadmagic
09-11-2012, 08:18 PM
What exactly is "21st Century Football"?
Is it slinging the ball down the field on every down? Like Manning, Brady or Breese?
Ben is a great QB, but I am not sure I want him throwing the ball 50 times a game. He is not responsible enough for that. He hasn't even learned to throw the ball away yet. I know he can do some great things that way, but he can also throw terrible interceptions that way.

Also, I would like to point out a little team you may have heard of known as the San Francisco 49ers. In this era of "21st Century Football", they are bucking the trend and doing quite well at it. They run the ball with great physicality. And when you play them, you know you are going to get a heavy dose of Frank Gore. They win because of running the ball. How do you explain that in your 21st century?

Balance is really the key and I think most people will agree with that. You have to be able to mix run and pass. Not just running the play, but successfully executing the play.
Big difference. And until our Oline is squared away, we will never be successful at the execution part. And thats going to cost us some wins against those teams who can.

Rick5895
09-11-2012, 08:47 PM
They ran in the 1st half, passed in the 2nd. I thought they were conservative but I understand the mind set of trying to run. I felt that Redman was sluggish and would have much rather seen Dwyer in there , he seemed to have a burst. I felt that this was an offense that wouldn't hit stride until week 5 or 6 or later. If we can get through the first 6 games 3-3 or 4-2 we will be fine. This Offense will make up for any miscues by our D should that continue. I am very confidant that Haley will be able to have this offense putting up 30 points/game heading into the playoffs.
Once again as in the Lebeau must go thread way too much drama and over reaction because of 1 loss.

Rick5895
09-11-2012, 08:51 PM
GoFor7, I agree with some of your points, but you need to understand something: all of us that are asking for a better run game and to run it more often are asking for a more EFFICIENT running game. Sure if you run the ball well you will run it a bit more, but hardly anybody here even wants to run the ball 50/50. Multiple members have explained that to you already, yet you continue to ignore it or not understand it. I haven't seen a member on here ever ask specifically for this 3 yards and a cloud of dust nonsense that you continue to mention. As for myself, I would like to see them run a few more times then they did last year, and be able to pick up yards when doing it regardless if the opposing defense knows we're running or not. From what I've read that's what the majority of us want, efficiency. Again, I agree with you on some of you points, and I'm not trying to insult you, but this whole thread is based on the false premise that you keep using.
Every year guys or gals come on here and go on and on without accepting anyone elses point of you. This guy/gal is one of them. Quit stoking the flame and it will extinguish all on it's own.

defence
09-11-2012, 10:41 PM
So it's okay if any OC other than Arians puts Ben in danger. Got it.



They try that against every elite QB they face and it blows up in the Steelers' face. The reason it didn't work was because they didn't let Ben pass earlier in the game more often. They didn't step on the Broncos throat after a turnover in the first half, they were too busy trying to please granddaddy Rooney's spirit. They don't want Ben to do anything in the first half, but then in the last 3 minutes they ask him to bail the team out. Use him earlier, then maybe you can run more often later in the game.



And the Broncos weren't worried about time of possession, they were scoring touchdown quickly. See, it's not an offense's job to worry about how much rest its defense gets. It's an offense's job to score. Three quick, 80 yard scoring drives for Denver. Seems like the Broncos had their priorities aligned with 21st century football.



Yet, the Steelers still think the RB from Bowie State is a more effective weapon then their franchise QB, his 3 WRs, and TE. Let Ben go to work early and get in a rhythm with his weapons instead of waiting until the last 3 minutes of the game.



More efficient doesn't mean stubbornly pounding it when Redman is averaging less than 2 yds/carry. More efficient doesn't mean being predictable and not using any play-action on first or second down or no-huddle earlier in the game.

I've been pointing out that Haley wasn't afraid to pass in Arizona given all the weapons he had there. Well, here he is in Pittsburgh and the offense is built similarly. So why under-use them? Why not let your QB thrive more often in the no huddle? One might think he has a mandate to run from the owner, given the fact Art has been preaching it all offseason.

Right now, the Steelers seem to be an organization that thinks their old-school style is right and everyone else is wrong. You can have the preference of 70's smashmouth football if you want, but if you're losing and everyone else is winning playing 21st century football, then you're wrong.

Hopefully I'm wrong by next week.

Bro; you still at it. Tomorrow I want you to go apply for the new Oc job that Haley is going to resign after reading all your posts. Guys get ready; we will be the super offence under our new genious OC!! Good luck with it man!!

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-11-2012, 11:13 PM
some people should not be allowed to play madden... it goes straight to their heads and clouds reality.

the rest of the league has a 100% td conversion rate off of turn overs.

"we shoulda just started rainey as returner and ran a kick back every punt or KO. that woulda saved everybody ALOT of trouble".

we didnt use out talent! amos is stuck in the 2010's!

My 10 year old calls a solid game on Madden. Then again, he must be playing 21st century football because he calls Hail Mary most of the time and completes 60% of them. Maybe I should send his resume into the Stillers. :noidea:

Buddha Bus
09-12-2012, 03:38 PM
So it's okay if any OC other than Arians puts Ben in danger. Got it.

Reading comprehension not your strong point, eh? Where did I say it was OK for another OC to endanger Ben? That's right, I didn't. I implied that Arians pretty much did that every game for his 5 year tenure here with his wide-open 7-step drop and chuck offense so why not try something different? I hardly see where running the football is putting Ben in harm's way, quite the opposite, in fact.

It was the fact that it simply wasn't successful, but they are attempting to get better at it which will help to keep Ben upright and healthy. I don't want Ben in a shootout with Peyton Manning, that's a bad way to attack a QB like that unless you're Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, or Tom Brady. Ben is not that kind of QB, IMHO. We need more of a balance and a consistent, efficient run game to help the passing game to open up more.



They try that against every elite QB they face and it blows up in the Steelers' face.

I think we beat Tom Brady last year if I'm not mistaken. :coffee:


And the Broncos weren't worried about time of possession, they were scoring touchdown quickly. See, it's not an offense's job to worry about how much rest its defense gets. It's an offense's job to score. Three quick, 80 yard scoring drives for Denver. Seems like the Broncos had their priorities aligned with 21st century football.

Thanks for setting me straight on the fact that it's the offense's job to score. No shit. :doh:

But I disagree that they are not responsible for allowing their defense time to rest. They have to mix in sustained drives to give their D a breather once in awhile so they don't tire out at the end of the game. Our offense is not built to score 30+ points every game and rarely does, so I have no idea where you get this assertion that our offense would be a pass happy powerhouse scoring at will if Haley would just let them.

I have a news flash for you: Arians was a pass happy OC who let Ben chuck it as much as he chose to. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't recall that being a successful run-up-the-score type offense blowing the doors off of other teams. I remember a herky-jerky hot and cold offense that ended up getting Ben nearly killed more often than was necessary.


I've been pointing out that Haley wasn't afraid to pass in Arizona given all the weapons he had there. Well, here he is in Pittsburgh and the offense is built similarly. So why under-use them? Why not let your QB thrive more often in the no huddle? One might think he has a mandate to run from the owner, given the fact Art has been preaching it all offseason.

O-N-E G-A-M-E. :rolleyes:

Right now, the Steelers seem to be an organization that thinks their old-school style is right and everyone else is wrong. You can have the preference of 70's smashmouth football if you want, but if you're losing and everyone else is winning playing 21st century football, then you're wrong.

Hopefully I'm wrong by next week.

For the last time, they are looking to become more balanced and a more efficient running team, not necessarily a smashmouth 70s era team. I'm not sure what voice in your head told you that that's what they absorbed psychically from the mind of Art Rooney II, but I think you've been grossly mislead.

tony hipchest
09-12-2012, 04:48 PM
My 10 year old calls a solid game on Madden. Then again, he must be playing 21st century football because he calls Hail Mary most of the time and completes 60% of them. Maybe I should send his resume into the Stillers. :noidea:lemme guess... never punts or kicks a fg either?

that would be not fully utilizing our talent, especially when ben is converting 9 of 10 long first downs in teh first half of a game.

only art II and his grand daddy liked punts and FG's. "3 yards and a cloud of punt". :tt04:

Buddha Bus
09-12-2012, 06:21 PM
My 10 year old calls a solid game on Madden. Then again, he must be playing 21st century football because he calls Hail Mary most of the time and completes 60% of them. Maybe I should send his resume into the Stillers. :noidea:

Waste of time and paper. Clearly the pool of potential OC candidates here is awash with superior abilities and know-how to render your son's futile attempts of being hired useless.

Now if only those clueless Rooneys would get over this whole "giving the new OC more than one game to prove himself and show what he's capable of" thing, we can get down to the business of getting one of these junior Don Coryells a damn job bringing us some Super Bowls! :tt04:

steelax04
09-12-2012, 06:21 PM
Not directed at anyone in particular, more of an obervation. Something that bugs me is this term "predictable playcalling." So tell me, in a game sometime in the future, when we have the same or very close run/pass ratio, and we win, is it no longer predictable playcalling? Is run, run, pass no longer "predictable" when we score 30+ points? Just because a run fails doesn't necessarily mean it was "predictable." Maybe the OL or RB just couldn't get it done. Same with a pass that goes incomplete. If the defender knocks it away, he must have "predicted" it.

I think anyone could "predict" a pass play on 3rd and 8+ yards. Should we pull the old Arians move and go with a draw? How about an empty backfield? I soooo predict a pass. I'm just a couch coach... the guys actually playing the game are probably even better at "predictions" than I am.

Predictable playcalling is the pinnacle of subjective terminology (Oh, it's the Monday after the game... the playcalling was so predictable!) and I don't think it adds validity to anyone's argument. Please help me understand otherwise, since it's so heavily used in all discussions around the offense. Or... until someone can record themselves watching the game calling each play prior to the snap and get 95%+ correct, it's too subjective to have as the crux of an argument...

/rantover Carry on...

GoFor7
09-12-2012, 11:26 PM
I think we beat Tom Brady last year if I'm not mistaken. :coffee:

And how did they do that? Did they stubbornly run, run, pass? Or did they unleash Ben early and often?

Thank you.

GoFor7
09-12-2012, 11:32 PM
Not directed at anyone in particular, more of an obervation. Something that bugs me is this term "predictable playcalling." So tell me, in a game sometime in the future, when we have the same or very close run/pass ratio, and we win, is it no longer predictable playcalling? Is run, run, pass no longer "predictable" when we score 30+ points? Just because a run fails doesn't necessarily mean it was "predictable." Maybe the OL or RB just couldn't get it done. Same with a pass that goes incomplete. If the defender knocks it away, he must have "predicted" it.

I think anyone could "predict" a pass play on 3rd and 8+ yards. Should we pull the old Arians move and go with a draw? How about an empty backfield? I soooo predict a pass. I'm just a couch coach... the guys actually playing the game are probably even better at "predictions" than I am.

Predictable playcalling is the pinnacle of subjective terminology (Oh, it's the Monday after the game... the playcalling was so predictable!) and I don't think it adds validity to anyone's argument. Please help me understand otherwise, since it's so heavily used in all discussions around the offense. Or... until someone can record themselves watching the game calling each play prior to the snap and get 95%+ correct, it's too subjective to have as the crux of an argument...

/rantover Carry on...

Well, I suppose when it works and the team wins fans won't be complaining. But when the team loses, or squeeks out a too close for comfort win, then yeah, fans are going to point at the play-calling.

You're saying you didn't get tired of seeing run, run, pass when each first down resulted in Ben having to bail out the offense? If they averaged say, 5 yards a carry then it wouldn't matter. But since they averaged very low carries, they needed to mix things up, and they didn't. Hence predictable.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-12-2012, 11:37 PM
lemme guess... never punts or kicks a fg either?

that would be not fully utilizing our talent, especially when ben is converting 9 of 10 long first downs in teh first half of a game.

only art II and his grand daddy liked punts and FG's. "3 yards and a cloud of punt". :tt04:

Exactly, my kid only uses the punter to "pretend " to hold for extra points. He always goes for 2 :noidea: Maybe the Steelers should do that and not waste Ben's talent by being predictible and kicking the PAT.

Waste of time and paper. Clearly the pool of potential OC candidates here is awash with superior abilities and know-how to render your son's futile attempts of being hired useless.

Now if only those clueless Rooneys would get over this whole "giving the new OC more than one game to prove himself and show what he's capable of" thing, we can get down to the business of getting one of these junior Don Coryells a damn job bringing us some Super Bowls! :tt04:

Probably correct, will wait till my son logs onto a Steelers forum and hones his playcalling before submitting his resume. He's not up to the level of some here. :coffee:

GoFor7
09-13-2012, 12:33 AM
I guess I didn't fully understand how lowly yinzer nation thinks of Ben. I guess some of us still haven't gotten over his bad game in Oakland in 2006.

tony hipchest
09-13-2012, 12:45 AM
i guess i didnt fully understand how lowly back woods yokel, nintendo nation thinks if redman. i guess some of us havent heard of his "suddeness and glide".

teegre
09-13-2012, 12:45 AM
And how did they do that? Did they stubbornly run, run, pass? Or did they unleash Ben early and often?

Thank you.

1. Long, sustained, time-consuming drives that kept Brady on the sidelines.

2. Scoring more points than the Taperiots.

3. A varied defensive scheme. .

GoFor7
09-13-2012, 12:54 AM
1. Long, sustained, time-consuming drives that kept Brady on the sidelines.

2. Scoring more points than the Taperiots.

3. A varied defensive scheme. .

But how did they take up long, sustainted, time-consuming drives? Ground n pound, or using their best weapon?

After the game, Ben mentioned the reason they hardly went deep was because the Patriots were giving them the middle of the field (scared of Wallace). What? I thought Ben was just an egomaniac dunder-head that only cared about throwing deep and making highlights?

There's another thing yinzers don't get. When you do want to play possession, you can do so through the air, and not just by ground n pound.

GoFor7
09-13-2012, 12:58 AM
i guess i didnt fully understand how lowly back woods yokel, nintendo nation thinks if redman. i guess some of us havent heard of his "suddeness and glide".

Personally, I find football video games non-entertaining. If you don't like them, then do what I do and don't play them. :thumbsup:

teegre
09-13-2012, 01:12 AM
But how did they take up long, sustainted, time-consuming drives? Ground n pound, or using their best weapon?

After the game, Ben mentioned the reason they hardly went deep was because the Patriots were giving them the middle of the field (scared of Wallace). What? I thought Ben was just an egomaniac dunder-head that only cared about throwing deep and making highlights?

There's another thing yinzers don't get. When you do want to play possession, you can do so through the air, and not just by ground n pound.

1.  Does it matter?  

3.  What you don't seem to understand...  better yet... What you don't seem to want to ADMIT is that you can indeed win games by controlling the clock... whether it be through the PASS or the RUN (or both).  

If BB converts those drives into TDs instead of FGs, would you really be complaining??? Really???  Reeeally???  

2.  Please, don't put words into other people's mouths about their stance on BB.  Just because people expect better from him doesn't mean that they don't like and/or don't believe in him.  In 2008, many wanted him to improve his pre-snap reads... and he has.  Currently, many of us want him to have a better red-zone convergence percentage (more TDs)... and we are sure that he will improve.    

Buddha Bus
09-13-2012, 04:31 AM
And how did they do that? Did they stubbornly run, run, pass? Or did they unleash Ben early and often?

Thank you.

And I was perfectly fine with the dink and dunk pass game they incorporated in that particular game. It worked. It still wasn't a wide-open pass downfield mess like one of Arians' normal clusterf*cks. There's no guarantee that game plan would have worked against the Broncos on Sunday night though.

As a matter of fact, as many here have already pointed out, it can be argued that the attack they used in the Broncos game was successful in that they moved the ball and controlled the clock. They just didn't finish in the red zone as has been the case frequently in the past few years. Here is a bold truth you may not want to accept.... that sometimes, on any given Sunday (or Monday, or Thursday, or occasionally Saturday), another team is just going to be better than us and demolish our plans for an undefeated season. That was the case in Denver.

You can now return to your regularly scheduled strategic non-existent word placement in other people's mouths (posts).

Rick5895
09-13-2012, 04:48 AM
And I was perfectly fine with the dink and dunk pass game they incorporated in that particular game. It worked. It still wasn't a wide-open pass downfield mess like one of Arians' normal clusterf*cks. There's no guarantee that game plan would have worked against the Broncos on Sunday night though.

As a matter of fact, as many here have already pointed out, it can be argued that the attack they used in the Broncos game was successful in that they moved the ball and controlled the clock. They just didn't finish in the red zone as has been the case frequently in the past few years. Here is a bold truth you may not want to accept.... that sometimes, on any given Sunday (or Monday, or Thursday, or occasionally Saturday), another team is just going to be better than us and demolish our plans for an undefeated season. That was the case in Denver.

You can now return to your regularly scheduled strategic non-existent word placement in other people's mouths (posts).

:applaudit:

steelax04
09-13-2012, 09:04 AM
You're saying you didn't get tired of seeing run, run, pass when each first down resulted in Ben having to bail out the offense? If they averaged say, 5 yards a carry then it wouldn't matter. But since they averaged very low carries, they needed to mix things up, and they didn't. Hence predictable.

No, I'm not saying anything like that... like others have said, you really need to stop putting words in people's mouths.

I'm talking about the extremely subjective term of "predictable playcalling" that you (and others) have completely based their arguments on (particularly with the Arians bashing). "Predictable playcalling" is not a fact or stat like a lot of people make it out to be. That's what I was saying. Situational playcalling, on the other hand, is something that I thought Arians wasn't good at, for example, empty set, 5-wide on 3rd and short. That's poor situational playcalling, which I didn't see nearly as much against Denver.

Please, define for me what you consider "predictable playcalling." Saying "they needed to mix things up, and they didn't" isn't going to cut it either. What that means to you could mean something very different to someone else.

I'm just trying to get some clarification on what it is that you're talking about with "predictable playcalling."

TheDude
09-13-2012, 09:22 AM
1.  Does it matter?  

3.  What you don't seem to understand...  better yet... What you don't seem to want to ADMIT is that you can indeed win games by controlling the clock... whether it be through the PASS or the RUN (or both).  

If BB converts those drives into TDs instead of FGs, would you really be complaining??? Really???  Reeeally???  

2.  Please, don't put words into other people's mouths about their stance on BB.  Just because people expect better from him doesn't mean that they don't like and/or don't believe in him.  In 2008, many wanted him to improve his pre-snap reads... and he has.  Currently, many of us want him to have a better red-zone convergence percentage (more TDs)... and we are sure that he will improve.    


teegre,
your right on the money.

The Rooney Rants Podcast had a fairly heated discussion regarding Haley's gameplan for week 1. The tipping point for any evaluation of the Denver gameplan rests on Ben's shoulders (which he acknowledged after the game), specifically his red zone short comings.

A little bit more air under that pass to Heath in the red zone and I anticipate we would have seen a different outcome to the game. Poor execution by Ben.

But its hard to complain about a guy who was 11/15 on 3rd down (10 of his 11 completions went for TDs or 1st downs)...especially when more than half of our 3rd downs were 9 yards or more.

jiminpa
09-13-2012, 12:27 PM
teegre,
your right on the money.

The Rooney Rants Podcast had a fairly heated discussion regarding Haley's gameplan for week 1. The tipping point for any evaluation of the Denver gameplan rests on Ben's shoulders (which he acknowledged after the game), specifically his red zone short comings.

A little bit more air under that pass to Heath in the red zone and I anticipate we would have seen a different outcome to the game. Poor execution by Ben.

But its hard to complain about a guy who was 11/15 on 3rd down (10 of his 11 completions went for TDs or 1st downs)...especially when more than half of our 3rd downs were 9 yards or more.Thank you. That's a nice, reasonable, balanced look at the situation.

It's when Ben took the game on his own shoulders that we stopped matching scores, but he was good more than not, and we were facing a very good team. It's not like we just got spanked by the Clowns. This was the Broncos with Peyton Manning.

teegre
09-13-2012, 01:56 PM
teegre,
your right on the money.

The Rooney Rants Podcast had a fairly heated discussion regarding Haley's gameplan for week 1. The tipping point for any evaluation of the Denver gameplan rests on Ben's shoulders (which he acknowledged after the game), specifically his red zone short comings.

A little bit more air under that pass to Heath in the red zone and I anticipate we would have seen a different outcome to the game. Poor execution by Ben.

But its hard to complain about a guy who was 11/15 on 3rd down (10 of his 11 completions went for TDs or 1st downs)...especially when more than half of our 3rd downs were 9 yards or more.

We are in 110% agreement.

I wrote about this/started another thread about this (earlier this week). Not complaining about BB, per se... just want a little better execution in the red-zone. One or two throws "on the money" in the red-zone, and we are celebrtating a victory. Again, this slight & easily corerectable improvement by BB, and he will be virtually unstoppable.

Rick5895
09-13-2012, 05:02 PM
We are in 110% agreement.

I wrote about this/started another thread about this (earlier this week). Not complaining about BB, per se... just want a little better execution in the red-zone. One or two throws "on the money" in the red-zone, and we are celebrtating a victory. Again, this slight & easily corerectable improvement by BB, and he will be virtually unstoppable.

I am in agreement aswell, although the D didn't help much, that 70 yard screen to Thomas and the poor tackling was not quite "Steeler Like"
I thought Ben played a great game, however, he made 2 mistakes, the under thrown ball to heath and the pick 6. Problem is when you are playing a QB who is playing "perfect" you have to play "perfect" as well.
We lost, we move on, we win the division and then who knows...I am optimistic I say we get number 7 this season, when our Offense comes together it will be a thing to behold. Then we can have the luxury of playing "average defense"

tony hipchest
09-13-2012, 05:36 PM
Personally, I find football video games non-entertaining. If you don't like them, then do what I do and don't play them. :thumbsup:



sorry...

im playin fools like atari...

:hatsoff:

steelax04
09-13-2012, 05:57 PM
sorry...

im playin fools like atari...

:hatsoff:

And I bet you're shakin' it like a Polaroid picture... :banana:

Ricco Suavez
09-13-2012, 06:29 PM
I agree with a lot of posts on this subject but one item that keeps being mentioned and seems to hold value is how some of you are happy with Time of Possession. If you are so happy with TOP than why is Arians not still here or why are we not clamoring for his return. We Lead the league in TOP last year. We were a so-called pass happy team last year and still lead the league. Another thing our short comings in the Red Zone last year is what every one was in arms about, our 20.3 points per game was not acceptable. First game we score 19 and wasted at least two maybe three trips in the Red Zone. If everyone wants to look at this game as a learning one, a stepping stone to greater things than by all means look at it that way. But make no excuses this game was a mirror of what we did last year. I expected as much but hoped for better. I still expect better. After all it is only the first game, Haley and the Offense can make some changes this week and hopefully click some. Nothing makes a team better than some success and wins, last year while pulling out 12 wins the offense did not ever look good other than the Patriots game. We need a shot of confidence this week, offense, defense, and coaching staff.

teegre
09-13-2012, 06:43 PM
First game we score 19 and wasted at least two maybe three trips in the Red Zone.

Exactly... and BB knows that he needs to get better/more efficient... and thus, it will get better. (I'd bet cash money on that.)

The first step to improvement is recognizing the problem.

In 2008, the problem was BB's pre-snap reads... and, he has gotten better. Now, the problem is red-zone efficiency... and he will get better.

teegre
09-13-2012, 06:52 PM
I am optimistic I say we get number 7 this season, when our Offense comes together it will be a thing to behold. Then we can have the luxury of playing "average defense"

I agree with everything... escpecially this last few sentences.

1. Yes, seven is forthcoming (followed in quick succession by eight & nine).

2. This offense, when it finally "clicks", is going to be special... Fastest Show on Turf type of special.

3. Exactly. Because, alas, the defense is simply not what it was in 2008, nor the 90s, nor the 70s. The current rules have elevated the scoring (eg a record number of teams (5) scored 40+ points in week one). If we go into this season expecting the same level of defense, it will only lead to our frustration. Conversely, if we go in knowing that the offense will carry the defense (much like it did, in the last two 1970s SuperBowls), we shall be very happy fans.

Ricco Suavez
09-13-2012, 06:53 PM
I agree, but I think we need to recognize that at times our offense lengthens the field against us. How many times do we have to overcome not only NFL caliber defenses but our own inept failings. What I speak of is STUPID penalties that either add yards to a first down or worse negates a big play and adds yards. Big mistakes on simple plays, Ben's inability to hit an open Miller, dropped passes from backs out of the backfield, remember Kemo and his aggression penalties from last year. I have pointed out that last year we had the worst starting point as far as field position in the league, we were dead last in take-a-ways. What this means is you have to go farther to just get in the Red Zone and long drives can fizzle from mental errors and penalties and turnovers. I am hoping, no praying that this is what Haley changes more than anything.

thebus36idf
09-13-2012, 06:54 PM
How about just calming the **** down after one game? I swear, I can't even read message boards the day after a loss.

can't agree more I come here to watch these guys swear and rip each other apart, but i don't post anymore. you'd think this was a forum for all fans not just the steelers, the way these guys treat each other. Watch.... wait for it I'm......:tt04::tt02::tt: next. GO STEELERS. Funny thing is all the steelers fans I run into at the game, and on the streets aren't this way at all. They are always talking up our guys????

teegre
09-13-2012, 06:59 PM
I agree, but I think we need to recognize that at times our offense lengthens the field against us. How many times do we have to overcome not only NFL caliber defenses but our own inept failings. What I speak of is STUPID penalties that either add yards to a first down or worse negates a big play and adds yards. Big mistakes on simple plays, Ben's inability to hit an open Miller, dropped passes from backs out of the backfield, remember Kemo and his aggression penalties from last year. I have pointed out that last year we had the worst starting point as far as field position in the league, we were dead last in take-a-ways. What this means is you have to go farther to just get in the Red Zone and long drives can fizzle from mental errors and penalties and turnovers. I am hoping, no praying that this is what Haley changes more than anything.

Hear, hear...

I am normally quite serene while watching games; even after the pick six, I was like: "There could be just enough time..." BUT, after his second false start in a row, I screamed out, "Stay in your effing stance, Colon!!!"
[Note: I know that it wasn't "in a row" but is sure as hell felt that way.]

Eliminate the penalties, and this team easily converts one TD into a FG, in every game. That is 4 points... which is huge.

Ricco Suavez
09-13-2012, 07:06 PM
I for one do not believe I tear down my team, I have talking points on the last game and last season. I see a team that needs some improvement from last weeks performance in nearly every facet of the game if they want to compete at the end of year. I do not think the season is over, I am not calling for someone's job. I am just stating what to me seems obvious. I do not prefer a passing offense to a run offense, I prefer one that outscores its opponents. I want a defense that can stop even the best QB's from throwing at will against us. I want to see a disciplined team from a coaching stand point. I do not see the sky falling, but its no longer clear skies.

tony hipchest
09-13-2012, 09:42 PM
I for one do not believe I tear down my team, I have talking points on the last game and last season. I see a team that needs some improvement from last weeks performance in nearly every facet of the game if they want to compete at the end of year. I do not think the season is over, I am not calling for someone's job. I am just stating what to me seems obvious. I do not prefer a passing offense to a run offense, I prefer one that outscores its opponents. I want a defense that can stop even the best QB's from throwing at will against us. I want to see a disciplined team from a coaching stand point. I do not see the sky falling, but its no longer clear skies.you are very fair and balanced in your approach to discussing the steelers and your takes on the games.

icing manning on the bench was a bad approach and gameplan, because he had been on the shelf for nearly 19 months. giving him the extra 'in-game' rest probably helped him.

in retrospect we probably shoulda planned for a shootout and keeping him on the field and taking a beating for as long as possible.

teegre
09-13-2012, 10:45 PM
you are very fair and balanced in your approach to discussing the steelers and your takes on the games.

icing manning on the bench was a bad approach and gameplan, because he had been on the shelf for nearly 19 months. giving him the extra 'in-game' rest probably helped him.

in retrospect we probably shoulda planned for a shootout and keeping him on the field and taking a beating for as long as possible.

In retrospect, you are correct.  

BUT, had I been the HC, I would have done the exact same thing: kept Manning off of the field, via controlling the clock.  

And, if one or two plays go PITT's way, the plan would have worked.  

Now we know... for the AFCCG.  :wink02:

chiken
09-14-2012, 01:36 PM
This argument would make more sense IF we scored every-time we threw the ball and Fizzled out every time We ground and Pounded it.. not the Case, in fact when throwing the ball we missed throws, Missed open receivers, Dropped passes, and When we were Forced to throw we threw a pick 6..

When we were mixing it up we were actually moving the ball (nickles and dimes at a time) Because that protects Ben and our Offensive line.. We are not built yet to be a Dominate passing Team - Our line will not allow it.

Haleys plan worked, Ben was safe and we were moving the ball, we just didn't execute when it was time to Score - this is not Haleys fault, the plays were there.
Arians on the other hand never had a plan - ever - ever EVER.

steelfury02
09-14-2012, 01:48 PM
as soon as the pick 6 happened I had this weird feeling like we would be seeing them again . . .

teegre
09-14-2012, 01:54 PM
as soon as the pick 6 happened I had this weird feeling like we would be seeing them again . . .

...in the AFCCG.

ricardisimo
09-14-2012, 08:10 PM
Has it been mentioned yet in this thread that as impressed as everyone here and in the media seems to be with Ben's use of the no-huddle, it appears to have gone unnoticed that we stopped scoring at exactly that point in the game?

To quote Nipsey Russell: Haley might be boring, but at least we was scoring.

zcoop
09-14-2012, 08:21 PM
...in the AFCCG.

Not sure if I want to play them in that stadium again this year. :noidea:

Steelersfan87
09-14-2012, 10:11 PM
Has it been mentioned yet in this thread that as impressed as everyone here and in the media seems to be with Ben's use of the no-huddle, it appears to have gone unnoticed that we stopped scoring at exactly that point in the game?

To quote Nipsey Russell: Haley might be boring, but at least we was scoring.

Actually, they used the no huddle almost exclusively on 3 of their 4 scoring drives.

teegre
09-14-2012, 11:35 PM
Not sure if I want to play them in that stadium again this year. :noidea:

Third time's a charm.

Plus, they'll be overconfident... and Harrison will be hungry... and BB will throw for five TDs.

GoFor7
09-15-2012, 12:16 AM
When we were mixing it up we were actually moving the ball (nickles and dimes at a time) Because that protects Ben and our Offensive line.. We are not built yet to be a Dominate passing Team - Our line will not allow it.

They're better at passing than running right now. That's because of the talent at QB and receiver. Not sure how you see the talent on the offensive line making them a better running team.

Haleys plan worked, Ben was safe and we were moving the ball, we just didn't execute when it was time to Score - this is not Haleys fault, the plays were there.


Putting Ben in 3rd & long situations after stubbornly running on first and second downs made him safer? They came out too unbalanced in favor of the run early on in the game. They need to mix things up early on.

tony hipchest
09-15-2012, 12:39 AM
ben got sacked 5 times. they lost just like most games when ben gets sacked 5 or more times.

ben was actually at his best when passing out of third and long.

pay no attention to GoFor7 everyone.... he still thinks the bears are a great passing team because of their talent at QB and WR.

GoFor7
09-15-2012, 12:50 AM
ben got sacked 5 times. they lost just like most games when ben gets sacked 5 or more times.

ben was actually at his best when passing out of third and long.

pay no attention to GoFor7 everyone.... he still thinks the bears are a great passing team because of their talent at QB and WR.

No doubt Ben was at his best. 11/15 on third down doesn't lie. The question is, how often do the Steelers want to put him in that situation? I thought the idea was to keep Ben safer?

I actually like Tony, even if he talks out of his ass from time to time. :thumbsup:

(On a sidenote, Cutler gets overrated because of arm strength. Don't tell Jaws.)

ricardisimo
09-15-2012, 08:28 AM
Actually, they used the no huddle almost exclusively on 3 of their 4 scoring drives.
Seemed to me like the second half was all no-huddle, and that was where we got bogged down, kicking field goals.

FanSince72
09-15-2012, 09:19 AM
Huddle / No Huddle
Pass / Don't Pass...

It's not an either / or proposition.
It's about calling the right play at the right time and we still have work to do in that regard.

For instance, a No Huddle offense works well if the other team is either a bit gassed or isn't expecting it.
But if the other team is prepared for a No Huddle offense, then it's really no different than any other approach, is it?

Everybody is looking for some magic pill that's going to be "IT" and that's never going to happen. To me it seems as if the fan's impatience for some big-time scoring machine is rubbing off on Haley and Tomlin and they're trying to pull some rabbit out of a hat to make that happen.

One play at a time along with the RIGHT play at the RIGHT time combined with a fair amount of patience is what's going to be the winning formula.

Whether we're a passing team, a running team or a defensive team isn't as important as simply being a winning team.

Ricco Suavez
09-15-2012, 10:47 AM
^^^^^^ Smart man or at least a smart post!!!!:applaudit:

GoFor7
09-15-2012, 11:55 AM
Huddle / No Huddle
Pass / Don't Pass...

It's not an either / or proposition.
It's about calling the right play at the right time and we still have work to do in that regard.

For instance, a No Huddle offense works well if the other team is either a bit gassed or isn't expecting it.
But if the other team is prepared for a No Huddle offense, then it's really no different than any other approach, is it?

Everybody is looking for some magic pill that's going to be "IT" and that's never going to happen. To me it seems as if the fan's impatience for some big-time scoring machine is rubbing off on Haley and Tomlin and they're trying to pull some rabbit out of a hat to make that happen.

One play at a time along with the RIGHT play at the RIGHT time combined with a fair amount of patience is what's going to be the winning formula.

Whether we're a passing team, a running team or a defensive team isn't as important as simply being a winning team.

Can some fans accept that though? Too many are stuck in the mindset that "you have to establish a strong running game before you pass!"

Hawaii 5-0
09-15-2012, 05:54 PM
Can some fans accept that though? Too many are stuck in the mindset that "you have to establish a strong running game before you pass!"

personally, I would have no problem with passing to set up the run. whatever works and gives us the better chance to win...

TheVet
09-15-2012, 11:32 PM
Can some fans accept that though? Too many are stuck in the mindset that "you have to establish a strong running game before you pass!"

Perhaps, but they don't seem to be on this forum. You should invite a few of them for the purpose of debate!

tony hipchest
09-16-2012, 03:20 PM
manning benefited from the extra rest and only 25 minutes of field time in his first complete game back after 19 months of not playing.

our gameplan vs denver woulda been perfect vs the packers in the superbowl and we probably woulda won had we iced rodgers for that long.

likewise the gameplan we used vs green bay woulda probably had been perfect to beat denver in a shoot out, wearing manning down towards the end.

of course players contribute as well by playing lights out and not committing stupid turn overs but it isnt always about execution, otherwise who would need coaches or gameplans?

steelfury02
09-16-2012, 07:49 PM
All I have to say, is that this Sunday is automatically going into my top 10 wk 2 gamedays, simply because anytime the Steelers win, and the Patriots and Ravens lose in the same day, I can't help but love it

Fire Arians
09-16-2012, 07:53 PM
the offense is starting to click a bit, hopefully they're full speed by midseason. I love how haley is getting everyone involved in the game

the o-line was starting off shaky but seem to be getting their grove. if the existing lineup can stay healthy it can be a good one

GMU Steeler
09-16-2012, 07:54 PM
I thought that the final touchdown scoring drive was a thing of beauty. Just a beautiful job getting yards and eating off clock. And then Redman's TD which was the icing on the cake.

Buddha Bus
09-16-2012, 07:59 PM
That Haley guy has no idea what he's doing. Fire him right now. :jerkit:

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-16-2012, 09:31 PM
I thought that the final touchdown scoring drive was a thing of beauty. Just a beautiful job getting yards and eating off clock. And then Redman's TD which was the icing on the cake.

IDK, I think the tone of this thread is that he should go 5-wide and let Ben sling it around to all his weapons.

After all, that works in Madden. :noidea: time consuming drives never happen in the Playstation world and have no place on the gridiron. :sarcasm:

Edman
09-16-2012, 09:36 PM
I really miss 5-Wide on 3rd and 1.

I really miss Ben running for his life every play.

I really miss this Offense being disjointed.

I really miss racking up yards but not scoring points.

I miss heaving up the ball in bad Cleveland weather.

I miss not using our talented TE.

I miss not having a Fullback.

FanSince72
09-16-2012, 09:40 PM
Mad props all around!

As is typical for us, it wasn't always the prettiest thing to watch, but from a talent / determination point of view it was a thing of beauty and more importantly -- we did what worked!

Oh and does anyone else think that if Dwyer wore #36 he'd look like a young Bettis?

-Especially after he bounces up from a tackle?

teegre
09-16-2012, 09:48 PM
Oh and does anyone else think that if Dwyer wore #36 he'd look like a young Bettis?

-Especially after he bounces up from a tackle?

Personally, I do not... but, I see your point.  

Bettis has a special place in my heart... but, again, I get your point.  

As in: it sure is nice to have a big back, who can cut, and fights for extra yards.  

teegre
09-16-2012, 09:49 PM
IDK, I think the tone of this thread is that he should go 5-wide and let Ben sling it around to all his weapons.

After all, that works in Madden. :noidea: time consuming drives never happen in the Playstation world and have no place on the gridiron. :sarcasm:

Madden is a beast.

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-16-2012, 09:53 PM
Madden is a beast.

Antonio Brown was a beast!!

So was RC25!!

TRH
09-16-2012, 10:22 PM
I really miss 5-Wide on 3rd and 1.

I really miss Ben running for his life every play.

I really miss this Offense being disjointed.

I really miss racking up yards but not scoring points.

I miss heaving up the ball in bad Cleveland weather.

I miss not using our talented TE.

I miss not having a Fullback.


don't forget those "bubble" screen throws...when everyone in the western hemisphere knew it was coming (why on earth would our opponents?)

StainlessStill
09-16-2012, 10:39 PM
don't forget those "bubble" screen throws...when everyone in the western hemisphere knew it was coming (why on earth would our opponents?)

We actually threw a couple WR screens on the first couple of drives. Even though I cringed by instinct, the execution is all around better. Amazing what good coaching could do when you can get guys like Antonio Brown the appropriate blocking up front. That said, great day all around the the Steelers.

Our T.O.P offense we are displaying is beastly. The Steelers NEVER had an offense like this before. Even though we were lousy in the numbers on the ground-game, we ran it when we needed to and the dose of Redman and Dwyer on that last drive was fantastic!

The difference? Red-zone efficiently. We scored TD's on 3 out of our 4 redzone trips this week, compared to 2/4 last week. This team could score points this season. If we can, we'll be one bitchin' team to contend with!

jiminpa
09-17-2012, 12:53 AM
I also liked the nice balance of sticking with the run until it started working and wearing down the defense and passing to move the sticks while the run was being established. As I have said, it kept them having to defend the run on play action. I think the balance helped the OL too by the second half.

FanSince72
09-17-2012, 12:37 PM
Personally, I do not... but, I see your point.  

Bettis has a special place in my heart... but, again, I get your point.  

As in: it sure is nice to have a big back, who can cut, and fights for extra yards.  

I feel the same way about Jerome.
I love the passing game and I love that Ben is coming into his own, but I DO miss Bettis and I'm sure that Ben does as well.

But most of us (whether we want to admit it or not) have been hoping to see a back like Bettis again and though Parker, Mendy and even Redman were/are good, none of them have Jerome's power, strength or style.

I see that strength in Dwyer and to some extent I even see Jerome's style.
I think that if we ever need to lineup against a team in the style of the way we did it with Jerome, then Dwyer would be my choice for tailback (and maybe Johnson could be the fullback).

Jerome's strength was creating a gap where none existed or making a small gap bigger by being able to push himself through a tiny sliver and forcing an opening just big enough for him to squeeze through.
Dwyer seems like the first back we've had since Bettis who can actually help create a gap instead of waiting for one to develop and that's an ability we can't afford to ignore.

teegre
09-17-2012, 02:03 PM
I feel the same way about Jerome.
I love the passing game and I love that Ben is coming into his own, but I DO miss Bettis and I'm sure that Ben does as well.

But most of us (whether we want to admit it or not) have been hoping to see a back like Bettis again and though Parker, Mendy and even Redman were/are good, none of them have Jerome's power, strength or style.

I see that strength in Dwyer and to some extent I even see Jerome's style.
I think that if we ever need to lineup against a team in the style of the way we did it with Jerome, then Dwyer would be my choice for tailback (and maybe Johnson could be the fullback).

Jerome's strength was creating a gap where none existed or making a small gap bigger by being able to push himself through a tiny sliver and forcing an opening just big enough for him to squeeze through.
Dwyer seems like the first back we've had since Bettis who can actually help create a gap instead of waiting for one to develop and that's an ability we can't afford to ignore.

I agree... with my mind.

But, my heart says "There is only one Bettis."

Make sense?

MACH1
09-17-2012, 02:11 PM
Bettis is one of those once in a lifetime players like Troy. Maybe one of RB's we have now will step up and become that kind of player but I highly doubt it.

steeltheone
09-17-2012, 02:14 PM
Dwyer 3 years 46 carries 222 yards and no TD'S.....So Bettis like????

mikegrimey
09-17-2012, 07:22 PM
Hahaha yea wtf are the Dwyer lovers watching, he breaks a couple of tackles and all the sudden he's a future HOF...

StainlessStill
09-17-2012, 07:53 PM
Dwyer 3 years 46 carries 222 yards and no TD'S.....So Bettis like????

I don't think anybody is making the comparison, stat wise. They are making the comparison the way he plays the game of football. You can't deny Dwyers ability to run at a full head of steam and brick-wall defenders. Shows quick feet and burst as well. Agile for a man his size and runs violently. Nobody is a Jerome Bettis, but since Bettis's departure, Dwyer comes the closest in skill-set.

teegre
09-17-2012, 09:51 PM
I don't think anybody is making the comparison, stat wise. They are making the comparison the way he plays the game of football. You can't deny Dwyers ability to run at a full head of steam and brick-wall defenders. Shows quick feet and burst as well. Agile for a man his size and runs violently. Nobody is a Jerome Bettis, but since Bettis's departure, Dwyer comes the closest in skill-set.

That... n'at... n'at... and more of that.

FanSince72
09-18-2012, 09:19 AM
I don't think anybody is making the comparison, stat wise. They are making the comparison the way he plays the game of football. You can't deny Dwyers ability to run at a full head of steam and brick-wall defenders. Shows quick feet and burst as well. Agile for a man his size and runs violently. Nobody is a Jerome Bettis, but since Bettis's departure, Dwyer comes the closest in skill-set.

Exactly.

I have never understood the obsession many guys have with "stats".

From a Fantasy point of view, stats are all there is to work with and I get that..
But from a reality point of view, I'll take heart and determination and "in the moment" greatness over all the stats in the world.

Terry B's stats are mediocre and even poor in some cases while Montana's stats are top-shelf, yet both won four SB's and the guy with the bad stats is the only one to do that in just six years.

I may be biased, but if I had to choose between handing the ball to one of those guys with the game on the line, I'd hand it to Bradshaw without thinking twice.

FanSince72
09-18-2012, 09:22 AM
Dwyer 3 years 46 carries 222 yards and no TD'S.....So Bettis like????


And what did Bettis' numbers look like before he joined the Steelers?

It's all about being the right guy at the right moment and that's the feeling I get with Dwyer.

TheDude
09-18-2012, 10:04 AM
In 3 years in a Rams uniform, Jerome averaged 1245 yds from scrimmage per season

While I am encouraged by Dwyers spark....to put him in and Bussy in the same category is premature.

As a rook, the Bus was second in the rushing crown race & offensive rookie of the year

As a rook, Dwyer was learning willpower at the buffet line

FanSince72
09-18-2012, 10:56 AM
In 3 years in a Rams uniform, Jerome averaged 1245 yds from scrimmage per season

While I am encouraged by Dwyers spark....to put him in and Bussy in the same category is premature.

As a rook, the Bus was second in the rushing crown race & offensive rookie of the year

As a rook, Dwyer was learning willpower at the buffet line


And when did I put Dwyer in Bettis' category?

Whether Dwyer ends up in Bettis' category will take a career to figure out.
I said he REMINDED me of Bettis and that he's the first back we've had since Bettis who seemed to have his style.

Bayz101
09-18-2012, 11:04 AM
And when did I put Dwyer in Bettis' category?

Whether Dwyer ends up in Bettis' category will take a career to figure out.
I said he REMINDED me of Bettis and that he's the first back we've had since Bettis who seemed to have his style.

The manner in which you asked "What did Jerome's numbers look like before joining the Steelers" seemed as if you we're insinuating that Jerome wasn't great early in his career, and that the same applies to Dwyer. That's just how I took it, anyway.

TheDude
09-18-2012, 11:07 AM
And what did Bettis' numbers look like before he joined the Steelers?

It's all about being the right guy at the right moment and that's the feeling I get with Dwyer.

wasnt trying to pick a fight at all...thought you were curious about Bettis' numbers prior to joining steelers.:noidea:

FanSince72
09-18-2012, 11:46 AM
wasnt trying to pick a fight at all...thought you were curious about Bettis' numbers prior to joining steelers.:noidea:

Hey, I'm a Polack -- which means that I have a genetic pre-disposition to argue with people. (you should see me at family gatherings :blah:)