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teegre
09-10-2012, 08:11 PM
Let me start off by saying that I predicted on the day that BB was drafted, that he'd take the Steelers to six SuperBowls, and win five of them. At that point, he was the best QB that I had seen in years. And, I think that this team lives & dies by him.

Again, the team lives & dies by BB.

The defense is not up to the caliber of 2008, let alone the early 90s, and nowhere near the defenses of the 70s. There is no arguing with that. But, as long as BB is on the roster, the Steelers WILL be fine.

Now... with that said...

BB is the leader of this team, and in turn, he has to be held accountable for the loss. This loss was squarely on his shoulders.

One can argue that the defense gave up four scoring drives... but, I retort that this defense is not going to be great, and we need ot "accept" that fact. Furthermore, if the Steelers are going to win, it's going to be ALL because of BB. This team will live & die by BB.

No more shall victories be defensively won (eg: 21-16). Instead, it will more likely be BB outscoring opponents (28-24). It is only a slight difference in score, but in today's NFL, it is indeed a big difference. 21 points won't cut it anymore; but, 28 points will lead to 13 or 14 wins.

Back to BB's culpability...

The NFL is such a "close" league. The separation between the top five teams and the bottom ten is not really all that different. Ergo, small things matter. Mistakes matter. And, BB made the biggest mistakes of the night. Again, he is the leader of this team; the Steelers will go as far as he takes them; and, he has to be held accountable for the loss.

The following five plays are indicative of the difference between winning & losing... and, they accounted for 16 points "left on the field" (or, 23 points, if one considers that 7 points were given to the Broncos).

1. BB has Heath Miller WIDE open in the end-zone. Alas, instead of lobbing the ball to Heath, for an easy score, BB throws a dart right above the heads of several defenders... and (obviously), one of those defenders deflected the ball. FG... instead of a TD. 4 points left on the field.

2. AB has his man beat. BB throws the ball slightly behind AB. The pass is broken up. If BB leads AB, it is a TD. FG... instead of a TD. 4 points left on the field.

3. If BB makes either of those TDs, the Steelers likely go for the 1 point converstion (on a later TD), rather than the failed 2 point conversion. 1 point left on the field.

4. Mike Wallace was covered deep by the FS all game long... except for one play, where the FS bit on a fake, leaving Wallace in single coverage. Worse yet, the CB bit, as well... leaving Wallace COMPLETELY UNCOVERED. If BB sees it, he has an easy TD. Alas, BB throws it short; incomplete; and worse, no TD. Punt... instead of a TD. 7 points left on the field.

5. With three minutes left, a friend of mine texted me: "I love BB time." Indeed. Then, BB has a brain fart, and forces a pass on second down... resulting in a pick six. 7 points given to Denver.

SUMMATION:
BB was able to move the ball; the Steelers dominated the clock. Alas, the Steelers simply could not scores TDs. Those 16 points (plus 7 points given away) were the difference in the game. BB needs to accept, acknowledge, & learn from these mistakes. He is the leader, and I am sure that he will bounce back.

Again, I am sure that he will bounce back.

In other words, the Steelers will be fine. BB has games like this (see the Eagles game in 2008), but he also has many, many more games where he does things that make my jaw drop (his final drive in SuperBowl XLIII). As long as BB is healthy, the Steelers WILL be contenders.

The Steelers are 0-1. BB is still on the roster. Everything will be fine. Done.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 08:17 PM
Oh for Christ's sake.

Ben is the reason they had a chance to even win the game. It was predictable play-calling on first and second down, putting Ben in 3rd & long situations much of the night. Do you know Ben's numbers on 3rd down last night?

11/15.

Ben was merely being a good sport. Art II wanted to go back to 70's football and possess more, they did. AND IT FAILED.

Was it his best night, no. But to say the loss is completely his fault shows ignorance beyond belief.

How about this, instead of putting Ben in situation where he has to bail the team out in the last 3 minutes, they use him earlier to score more points?

teegre
09-10-2012, 08:28 PM
Agreed: BB is the reason that they had a chance to win...
...and simultaneously the reason that they lost.

If he is going to be the leader, he has to be held accountable for a bad game.

Aaron Rodgers had a bad game yesterday; Drew Bress had a bad game; and, BB had a bad game.

Furthermore, you have stated (many times) that "It is not production; it's points."

Well, it doesn't matter if BB was 11/15 on 3rd downs, or 1/15, or 15/15... he gave away POINTS. Right?... that's what you've been harping about in ALL of the other threads... points... right?

You have stated that time of possession and yards do not matter... all that matters is points... right? Well, BB gave away 16 points.

teegre
09-10-2012, 08:31 PM
use him earlier to score more points?

Such as... oh... I don't know...

...maybe a pass to Miller?
...maybe a pass to AB?
...maybe a pass to Wallace?

In other words, it appears that you totally agree with me.

Hawaii 5-0
09-10-2012, 08:31 PM
Let me start off by saying that I predicted on the day that BB was drafted, that he'd take the Steelers to six SuperBowls, and win five of them.


cool, that means we're going to three more Super Bowls and winning all of them...:thumbsup:

:tt02: :tt02: :tt02:

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 08:32 PM
Agreed: BB is the reason that they had a chance to win...
...and simultaneously the reason that they lost.

If he is going to be the leader, he has to be held accountable for a bad game.

Aaron Rodgers had a bad game yesterday; Drew Bress had a bad game; and, BB had a bad game.

Furthermore, you have stated (many times) that "It is not production; it's points."

Well, it doesn't matter if BB was 11/15 on 3rd downs, or 1/15, or 15/15... he gave away POINTS. Right?... that's what you've been harping about in ALL of the other threads... points... right?

You have stated that time of possession and yards do not matter... all that matters is points... right? Well, BB gave away 16 points.

And this neanderthal play-calling isn't helping. You want you're QB to get into a rhythm with no-huddle, not put him in third-and-long all night. Ultimately the defense is more to blame than the offense, but they should've gone faster in the first half so it didn't have to come down to Ben.

teegre
09-10-2012, 08:33 PM
cool, that means we're going to three more Super Bowls and winning all of them...:thumbsup:

:tt02: :tt02: :tt02:

Exactly. I foresee a three-peat, followed by an immediate retirement.

For him MVP speech (his third in three years): "I retire. Out."

teegre
09-10-2012, 08:34 PM
And this neanderthal play-calling isn't helping. You want you're QB to get into a rhythm with no-huddle, not put him in third-and-long all night. Ultimately the defense is more to blame than the offense, but they should've gone faster in the first half so it didn't have to come down to Ben.

Three TD-scoring opportunities.
Six points.

Twenty-one points would have been better.

I do not see how you don't agree with that...???

Bayz101
09-10-2012, 08:35 PM
Sorry, you made a mistake in your thread title. What you meant to say was "BB: The only reason we we're in the game was because of him"

And to elaborate: Not the offense, the DEFENSE lost the game for us. No one on the offensive side of the ball caused us to lose. The offense scored, and when they did, the defense allowed Manning to score in less than half the time. The defense allowed Manning to pick them apart in the no-huddle, and completely ABUSE our use of the "time of possession" tactic on offense.

Don't blame the offense when the defense was already outscoring us BEFORE Ben threw the pick.

Bottom line: Defense needs to improve, and Clark is exactly what the doctor ordered.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 08:35 PM
Such as... oh... I don't know...

...maybe a pass to Miller?
...maybe a pass to AB?
...maybe a pass to Wallace?

In other words, it appears that you totally agree with me.

True, but I already said it wasn't his best game.

How about a faster start? How about not worrying about appeasing a man that died 24 years ago and lived in a different football era.

teegre
09-10-2012, 08:36 PM
True, but I already said it wasn't his best game.

As did I.

Bayz101
09-10-2012, 08:38 PM
Three TD-scoring opportunities.
Six points.

Twenty-one points would have been better.

I do not see how you don't agree with that...???

The defense STILL failed. Each time. We could have put up fifty and it doesn't change the fact that the defense allowed Manning to punch it in right after we did, in HALF the time.

This can't be a gunshow. No way can that happen in an NFL game. The defense needed to step up, and it didn't. Broncos defense needed to step up, and it did.

The Offense kept us from getting humiliated COMPLETELY in this game. The defense was already getting abused like a red-headed step child AFTER the offense put up seven.

teegre
09-10-2012, 08:44 PM
Sorry, you made a mistake in your thread title. What you meant to say was "BB: The only reason we we're in the game was because of him"

And to elaborate: Not the offense, the DEFENSE lost the game for us. No one on the offensive side of the ball caused us to lose. The offense scored, and when they did, the defense allowed Manning to score in less than half the time. The defense allowed Manning to pick them apart in the no-huddle, and completely ABUSE our use of the "time of possession" tactic on offense.

Don't blame the offense when the defense was already outscoring us BEFORE Ben threw the pick.

Bottom line: Defense needs to improve, and Clark is exactly what the doctor ordered.

The defense gave up one long play.

The defense gave up 25 points.

The defense is going to struggle, because they are not the 2008 defense.

Agree, agree, agree... yes???

But, to say that BB had NOTHING to do with this loss is ostriching, brother. He wasted three scroing opportunities. Three possible TDs... but only netted six points (instead of 21).

Furthermore, if the defense had had a lead, maybe then they could have pinned their ears back, and rushed Peyton. Instead, Peyton had the luxury of having the lead... and being able ot audible freely from pass to run, and from run to pass... depending on where Troy lined up.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 08:46 PM
Furthermore, if the defense had had a lead, maybe then they could have pinned their ears back, and rushed Peyton. Instead, Peyton had the luxury of having the lead... and being able ot audible freely from pass to run, and from run to pass... depending on where Troy lined up.

The defense had a 13-7 lead and a 19-14 lead in the second half.... why didn't they pin their ears back then?

Ben made mistakes, but this was more on the defense than Ben.

Bayz101
09-10-2012, 08:48 PM
The loss isn't on Ben. As much as he'd like to to take the blame for throwing a pick, it's a FACT that he's the only reason we we're in the game. Without his third down conversions to at LEAST get into field position we get shut out. Running game did nothing to help, outside of Dwyer.

I just fail to see how he's to blame. If anything the Defense should be.

Oh wait. It is. Several news sources have noticed out defense's struggles. Either way, we struggled altogether as a crew this time last year, and we did better tonight than we did in Balt last year. We'll be fine. The sky isn't falling in my eyes.

teegre
09-10-2012, 08:51 PM
The defense had a 13-7 lead and a 19-14 lead in the second half.... why didn't they pin their ears back then?

Ben made mistakes, but this was more on the defense than Ben.

Ah... admittedly, good point.

My thoughts are three-fold:

1. The lead was not substansial enough and/or it was early.

2. Maybe they did... but, Chris Carter & Big LaMarr simply couldn't get to the QB.

3. It would have been a lot easier to have Troy running around and/or blitzing a lot more freely with a 21-7 lead (which it easily could have been, if BB had completed the aforementioned TD passes to Miller & to AB) as opposed ot a 6 point lead.

teegre
09-10-2012, 08:55 PM
The loss isn't on Ben. As much as he'd like to to take the blame for throwing a pick, it's a FACT that he's the only reason we we're in the game. Without his third down conversions to at LEAST get into field position we get shut out. Running game did nothing to help, outside of Dwyer.

I just fail to see how he's to blame. If anything the Defense should be.

Oh wait. It is. Several news sources have noticed out defense's struggles. Either way, we struggled altogether as a crew this time last year, and we did better tonight than we did in Balt last year. We'll be fine. The sky isn't falling in my eyes.

Again, 11/15 on third downs is great... but, I'd also rather have three TDs than two FGs... right? BB kept the Steelers in the game, agreed... but, he also missed out on several scoring opportunities.

Simply, to say that he has no blame is illogical.

And, the sky is not falling in my eyes, either. (Did you read the end... and/or the beginning?) I think we agree more than disagree (well, except for the whole BB being cuplable thing).

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 08:57 PM
Again, 11/15 on third downs is great... but, I'd also rather have three TDs than two FGs... right? BB kept the Steelers in the game, agreed... but, he also missed out on several scoring opportunities.

Simply, to say that he has no blame is illogical.

And, the sky is not falling in my eyes, either. (Did you read the end... and/or the beginning?) I think we agree more than disagree (well, except for the whole BB being cuplable thing).

Won't matter how Ben plays next week if the defense can't stop the Jets running game.

teegre
09-10-2012, 09:05 PM
Won't matter how Ben plays next week if the defense can't stop the Jets running game.

Well, that is a given... and, to a degree, a strawman arguement.

The Steelers stand no chance if Redman fumbles four times.
The Steelers stand no chance if BB throws seven INTs.
The Steelers stand no chance if the NYJets rush for five TDs.
The Steelers stand no chance if... et cetera.

BB playing better next week will certainly help the cause... yes? Can you agree to that?

Simply. the defense IS going to give up more points than we Steelers fans are accustomed to (20 to 22 points per game, as opposed to 13 to 18). Ergo, the onus for winning has shifted sqaurely to the offensive side of the ball... because, most of the talent this team lies on offense. The Steeler will live & die by what BB does.

Bayz101
09-10-2012, 09:05 PM
The defense gave up one long play.

The defense gave up 25 points.

The defense is going to struggle, because they are not the 2008 defense.

Agree, agree, agree... yes???

But, to say that BB had NOTHING to do with this loss is ostriching, brother. He wasted three scroing opportunities. Three possible TDs... but only netted six points (instead of 21).

Furthermore, if the defense had had a lead, maybe then they could have pinned their ears back, and rushed Peyton. Instead, Peyton had the luxury of having the lead... and being able ot audible freely from pass to run, and from run to pass... depending on where Troy lined up.


If you're really going to sit here an tell me the Defense isn't at fault for this loss, you need to go back and watch the game again. Hell, i'll give you a download!

The offense gave our team the lead going into the half. 10-7. The Broncos offense scored 17 points in the second half, through no fault of Ben.

Both sides of the ball need to improve, but it was the secondary that lost it for us last night. 10-yard cushions became secondary, and Manning hit his receivers with ease. Ben lead 9 minute long drives and put points up, and he was right back on the field no more than a minute later to do it all again. Why? Because the defense sucked.

Ryan Clark will be back next week, and I think we'll do a whole lot better defensively. The offense obviously wasn't perfect this week, but it wasn't the reason we lost. I'd say it did outstanding being it was the first week the full gameplan was used, and it was used in Denver of all places.

Next week it is! The sky isn't falling.

Bayz101
09-10-2012, 09:08 PM
Well, that is a given... and, to a degree, a strawman arguement.

The Steelers stand no chance if Redman fumbles four times.
The Steelers stand no chance if BB throws seven INTs.
The Steelers stand no chance if the NYJets rush for five TDs.
The Steelers stand no chance if... et cetera.

BB playing better next week will certainly help the cause... yes? Can you agree to that?

Simply. the defense IS going to give up more points than we Steelers fans are accustomed to (20 to 22 points per game, as opposed to 13 to 18). Ergo, the onus for winning has shifted sqaurely to the offensive side of the ball... because, most of the talent this team lies on offense. The Steeler will live & die by what BB does.

"BB playing better next week will certainly help the cause... yes? Can you agree to that?"

If the defense plays like it did last night? Hell no. We're not going up against Manning again next week so i'm not even worried about that, but if the defense continues to play like it did last night, it won't matter what Ben does. At some point he'll get tired of getting shit on.

Bayz101
09-10-2012, 09:10 PM
I'm done with this argument, as it's absolutely preposterous for me to believe the defense isn't at fault, and Ben IS. Ben is reason we didn't lose 31 to nothing, and that's the truth.

I'm out.

teegre
09-10-2012, 09:13 PM
If you're really going to sit here an tell me the Defense isn't at fault for this loss, you need to go back and watch the game again. Hell, i'll give you a download!

The offense gave our team the lead going into the half. 10-7. The Broncos offense scored 17 points in the second half, through no fault of Ben.

Both sides of the ball need to improve, but it was the secondary that lost it for us last night. 10-yard cushions became secondary, and Manning hit his receivers with ease. Ben lead 9 minute long drives and put points up, and he was right back on the field no more than a minute later to do it all again. Why? Because the defense sucked.

Ryan Clark will be back next week, and I think we'll do a whole lot better defensively. The offense obviously wasn't perfect this week, but it wasn't the reason we lost. I'd say it did outstanding being it was the first week the full gameplan was used, and it was used in Denver of all places.

Next week it is! The sky isn't falling.

Read the OP. The defense is not the 2008 defense. To assume that it is, is only going to lead to frustration. They will not drop off significantly, but there is a drop off.

The offense used to be able to "fail" (and only score FGs), because the defense could bail them out with a 16-13 victory. But, these days, the offense is the strong-side of the football: they should score TDs (instead of FGs), considering the amount of talent that they have.

Lastly, that 10-7 lead at half, could have been 21-7 by the time that Peyton was on the field again... if BB had connected on those two TD passes (to Miller & to AB). True, it would have evntually been 21-24 (7+17=24)... but, then if BB would have hit Wallace (which he did not), the score would have been 28-24.

And, of course, even as it was, BB had the opportunity to drive down for the winning TD (the Broncos only had a 6 point lead)... but, he threw a pick six... which was... his fault.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 09:16 PM
Read the OP. The defense is not the 2008 defense. To assume that it is, is only going to lead to frustration. They will not drop off significantly, but there is a drop off.

With that I agree. But they cannot do this run, run, pass crap anymore. Otherwise, get used to Ben having to come up with a comeback drive..... assuming they aren't down by 17 points already.

teegre
09-10-2012, 09:19 PM
I'm done with this argument, as it's absolutely preposterous for me to believe the defense isn't at fault, and Ben IS. Ben is reason we didn't lose 31 to nothing, and that's the truth.

I'm out.

BB is the reason that the Steelers didn't lose 31-nothing... well, I think that you mean 25-nothing (BB did give them the pick six... right?).

Regardless, if BB scores on that final drive, the game is won: 26-25*.

*(and that's not even counting the missed TD opportunites from earlier in the game.)

QUESTION: For the remainder of the season, would you want BB to miss on three TD attmepts, and throw a pick six? No... me neither. Why not? Because, that woudl be a bad game.

Since you're "out", I guess that we can just agree to disagree...

I am late picking up the baby from Grammy's house anyways. Speaking of which...

teegre
09-10-2012, 09:21 PM
With that I agree. But they cannot do this run, run, pass crap anymore. Otherwise, get used to Ben having to come up with a comeback drive..... assuming they aren't down by 17 points already.

Agreed.

But, there would be less likely to be a "comeback" drive, if BB scores earlier in the game... right?

[Gotta go.]

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 09:22 PM
Agreed.

But, there would be less likely to be a "comeback" drive, if BB scores earlier in the game... right?

[Gotta go.]

Sure, but remember the first two offensive drives? Run, run, pass, punt.

Hawaii 5-0
09-10-2012, 09:24 PM
With that I agree. But they cannot do this run, run, pass crap anymore. Otherwise, get used to Ben having to come up with a comeback drive..... assuming they aren't down by 17 points already.

we did the run, run pass crap mostly in the first half.

the halftime score:

Steelers 10
Broncos 7

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 09:26 PM
we did the run, run pass crap mostly in the first half.

the halftime score:

Steelers 10
Broncos 7

And they also had decent field position after a Bronco turnover that they wasted because of that run, run, pass crap. Welcome to the 21st century. :wave:

zcoop
09-10-2012, 09:29 PM
I say its a shared loss fellas but BB is claiming it because he had a chance to win at the end. Instead a winning drive he threw a pic six. If he orchestrates a winning drive, he is the hero, so when he fails he has to take his medicine.

MACH1
09-10-2012, 09:29 PM
The loss isn't on Ben. As much as he'd like to to take the blame for throwing a pick, it's a FACT that he's the only reason we we're in the game. Without his third down conversions to at LEAST get into field position we get shut out. Running game did nothing to help, outside of Dwyer.

I just fail to see how he's to blame. If anything the Defense should be.

Oh wait. It is. Several news sources have noticed out defense's struggles. Either way, we struggled altogether as a crew this time last year, and we did better tonight than we did in Balt last year. We'll be fine. The sky isn't falling in my eyes.

Yes it is. The thing your not seeing is he should have scored 7 points every time he touched the ball. :rolleyes:

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 09:31 PM
I say its a shared loss fellas but BB is claiming it because he had a chance to win at the end. Instead a winning drive he threw a pic six. If he orchestrates a winning drive, he is the hero, so when he fails he has to take his medicine.

Ben always does that after a loss, even when it's not his fault. That's just who he is.

Bayz101
09-10-2012, 09:32 PM
Yes it is. The thing your not seeing is he should have scored 7 points every time he touched the ball. :rolleyes:

Rep!

Bayz101
09-10-2012, 09:33 PM
Ben always does that after a loss, even when it's not his fault. That's just who he is.

The opposite of Tom Brady when he's blaming his offensive line. Ben took blame for the defense's loss, and that's just how he is.

tanda10506
09-10-2012, 09:33 PM
There is an argument for both sides. Ben is the main reason they were even in the game. We could not run the ball yet we continued to over and over, picking up nothing unless Dwyer made a move, and doing it mostly out of the shotgun for some unknown reason. So it's no question that Ben gave them a chance to win the game and is responsible for keeping it close by converting on 3rd down so well. On the other hand, top QB's make that final drive and win. A QB's "greatness" isn't determined by what position his defense puts him in, he just makes plays and finds a way to win. Ben himself has been a prime example of that, maybe more so then Manning or Brady, but he hasn't had a moment like that since failing on the last drive of the 2010-11 SB. I don't put the loss on Ben at all, but he did have a chance to make one more drive and win the game and he didn't. We're going to need him to make that game winning drive a few times this year IMO, this defense is just not what it used to be. Hopefully the outcome is different when it happens next.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 09:34 PM
Yes it is. The thing your not seeing is he should have scored 7 points every time he touched the ball. :rolleyes:

And he should have done it on every third and long play after two failed running attempts!

teegre
09-10-2012, 10:15 PM
Yes it is. The thing your not seeing is he should have scored 7 points every time he touched the ball. :rolleyes:

Not on "every" play, but in the red-zone and/or in the end-zone, when a receiver is WIDE OPEN.  

TD > FG

jiminpa
09-10-2012, 11:19 PM
I'm glad that we kept running. That's what sold the play actions.

BR was key in this one. But let's not lose sight that we played a great team, at their field, in high altitude, and were in the game almost to the end. So even if one person did blow the game, it was a good showing. I've said before, maybe in this thread, that it is no shame to lose a close game, to a good team, having a good game, on their field. ,

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 11:22 PM
I'm glad that we kept running. That's what sold the play actions.

Are you kidding? It wasted time and was predictable. First possession in the game: run, run, pass, punt.

Then the defense gets a turnover around mid-field. Great field position right? What does the offense do? Run, run, sack on 3rd & long, punt.

At least they were trying to establish granddaddy's running game! Losing a game playing "Steeler football" is better than winning the game with the ball in your QB's hand early in the game and often.

jiminpa
09-10-2012, 11:37 PM
Are you kidding? It wasted time and was predictable. First possession in the game: run, run, pass, punt.

Then the defense gets a turnover around mid-field. Great field position right? What does the offense do? Run, run, sack on 3rd & long, punt.

At least they were trying to establish granddaddy's running game! Losing a game playing "Steeler football" is better than winning the game with the ball in your QB's hand early in the game and often.Run, run, sack, punt, is better than incomplete, sack, penalty, sack, penalty, and then punt not quite to the first down marker--the favorite series of the "bombs away Brucie" scheme, especially if it is setting something else up for later, a concept lost on the Steelers offense for the last few years.

GoFor7
09-10-2012, 11:39 PM
Run, run, sack, punt, is better than incomplete, sack, penalty, sack, penalty, and then punt not quite to the first down marker--the favorite series of the "bombs away Brucie" scheme, especially if it is setting something else up for later, a concept lost on the Steelers offense for the last few years.

Maybe Ben is a little better than you give him credit for in your small mind. Maybe instead of setting up something for a later game, the Steelers should have focused on WINNING THE CURRENT GAME IN HAND.

It's not the 70's. Accept it. They need to use more no-huddle and pass more often.

jiminpa
09-10-2012, 11:56 PM
Maybe Ben is a little better than you give him credit for in your small mind. Maybe instead of setting up something for a later game, the Steelers should have focused on WINNING THE CURRENT GAME IN HAND.

It's not the 70's. Accept it. They need to use more no-huddle and pass more often.I wasn't talking about a later game, I was talking about the same game. We tried that pass on every down thing for the last five years, and the defense had to carry the team, and with BR and the receiving core that we have--which is completely unacceptable. It let defenses send overload blitzes from dime packages, because they didn't have to even consider the possibility of a run, and got our QB injured a lot. Play actions didn't work, because defenses knew when we weren't going to run. Again, bringing tiddly winks to a chess match.

If Ben wants to start showing how much better he is than I think, he can start showing it any time now. But what I think he's weak in is throwing for the first down when it's there, handing the ball off, not audibleing out of the best play just because it doesn't let him try to be the hero, and clock awareness. You know, the fundamentals. He definitely has abilities. I'm not saying he doesn't. I'm disappointed that he never improved on his natural talents.

SteelMusic
09-10-2012, 11:58 PM
Maybe Ben is a little better than you give him credit for in your small mind. Maybe instead of setting up something for a later game, the Steelers should have focused on WINNING THE CURRENT GAME IN HAND.

It's not the 70's. Accept it. They need to use more no-huddle and pass more often.

http://pghwebfx.com/ben.jpg

GoFor7
09-11-2012, 12:04 AM
I wasn't talking about a later game, I was talking about the same game. We tried that pass on every down thing for the last five years, and the defense had to carry the team, and with BR and the receiving core that we have--which is completely unacceptable. It let defenses send overload blitzes from dime packages, because they didn't have to even consider the possibility of a run, and got our QB injured a lot. Play actions didn't work, because defenses knew when we weren't going to run. Again, bringing tiddly winks to a chess match.

And when running doesn't work, you find another way instead of wasting an opportunity. Last night, the Steelers seemed more intent on establishing granddaddy's offense then winning.

The problem with Arians wasn't in between the 20's the problem with Arians was crap play-calling in the redzone. They could move the ball down the field with Ben in control. That's something that should not change. With a great opportunity at mid-field, the Steelers were more concerned with establishing a running game then cahsing in, and it was STUPID.

Can we accept it's a passing league? Can we accept that yes, you can have an effective passing game without establishing a running game? Can we accept that the running game is secondary to the passing game? Can we accept that balance and time of possession aren't important? Can we accpet that scoring is important?

It seems like some of us really can't let go of the old NFL....

jiminpa
09-11-2012, 12:19 AM
And when running doesn't work, you find another way instead of wasting an opportunity. Last night, the Steelers seemed more intent on establishing granddaddy's offense then winning.

The problem with Arians wasn't in between the 20's the problem with Arians was crap play-calling in the redzone. They could move the ball down the field with Ben in control. That's something that should not change. With a great opportunity at mid-field, the Steelers were more concerned with establishing a running game then cahsing in, and it was STUPID.

Can we accept it's a passing league? Can we accept that yes, you can have an effective passing game without establishing a running game? Can we accept that the running game is secondary to the passing game? Can we accept that balance and time of possession aren't important? Can we accpet that scoring is important?

It seems like some of us really can't let go of the old NFL....I don't know, can you accept that no matter how you accomplish it, 4+4+4= first down, and enough consecutive first downs = touchdown? Did you know that? Running yardage is still just as valuable as passing yardage, but you can't intercept a run. If the defense knows you won't run they can attack the QB and cover every receiver, which means you had better have a very durable QB. Ben has been getting away with a lot of really bad football with athleticism.

Moving the ball between the 20's it's the easiest thing to do. That's not skill. Good defenses will give you those for a reason. He played the low percentage high yield, desperation plays that will give great stats, but count on luck, and aren't supposed to be productive. He just doesn't understand the game well enough to realize that he wasn't actually accomplishing anything, and Ben either didn't understand either or didn't care as long as HIS stats were good, probably a combination of both.

OX1947
09-11-2012, 12:28 AM
Loss wasnt on Ben. Steelers havent been able to make important stops since Super Bowl XLV. I can not remember them making a big game stop when it matter since then. The defense just isnt making impact plays like they use to. That's what made the steelers, stops, and big plays. Big ben was the guy who put the final dagger in the heart.

GoFor7
09-11-2012, 12:31 AM
I don't know, can you accept that no matter how you accomplish it, 4+4+4= first down, and enough consecutive first downs = touchdown? Did you know that? Running yardage is still just as valuable as passing yardage, but you can't intercept a run. If the defense knows you won't run they can attack the QB and cover every receiver, which means you had better have a very durable QB. Ben has been getting away with a lot of really bad football with athleticism.

Moving the ball between the 20's it's the easiest thing to do. That's not skill. Good defenses will give you those for a reason. He played the low percentage high yield, desperation plays that will give great stats, but count on luck, and aren't supposed to be productive. He just doesn't understand the game well enough to realize that he wasn't actually accomplishing anything, and Ben either didn't understand either or didn't care as long as HIS stats were good, probably a combination of both.

But can you accept, as the Steelers are currently built now (not in the 70's, or the 90's, but now) that they are much more of an effective passing team than a running team. Can you accept that you have to pass to eventually score? Can you accept that the rest of the team isn't good enough to play this kind of grind-it-out football?

Can you accept that Ben isn't this selfish prick that you make him out to be? Can you accept that he has something like 24 comeback drives in his career? Can you accept that he's a better QB than you make him out to be? Can you accept your criticism of him has reflected more poorly on you than him? Can you accept that QBs are stars in this league, and the Steelers have one? Or god forbid someone seem bigger than the Steeler logo...

teegre
09-11-2012, 12:42 AM
Can you accept that he has something like 24 comeback drives in his career? Can you accept that he's a better QB than you make him out to be? Can you accept that QBs are stars in this league, and the Steelers have one?

If he had had that final drive in XLV, he would be deemed the greatest "comeback" QB ever. Currently, he is tied with Montana for number of game-winning SuperBowl TD drives... although, I think BB's was better. Man... I wanted XLV (as we've discussed).

True: elite QBs are essential. Rodgers, Brees, Brady... I know that I'm biased, but I'd take BB over any other QB.

GoFor7
09-11-2012, 12:49 AM
If he had had that final drive in XLV, he would be deemed the greatest "comeback" QB ever. Currently, he is tied with Montana for number of game-winning SuperBowl TD drives... although, I think BB's was better. Man... I wanted XLV (as we've discussed).

That's exactly why people like jiminpa give Ben shit. He's deemed the sole reason the Steelers lost that game because he couldn't move the team down the field for a game winning TD.

Hawaii 5-0
09-11-2012, 01:49 AM
It's not the 70's. Accept it.

:deadhorse:

OX1947
09-11-2012, 03:09 AM
That's exactly why people like jiminpa give Ben shit. He's deemed the sole reason the Steelers lost that game because he couldn't move the team down the field for a game winning TD.

That drive in XLV, had it happened, I would not feel the least bit concerned about games like this. I cant explain it because we still have seen 2 Super Bowl wins, but that loss haunts me to no end. It got worse when Eli drove the Giants last Feb. Just give me SB XLV and I would be fine with the steelers not making the playoffs this year. That loss just wont go away.

jiminpa
09-11-2012, 03:19 AM
But can you accept, as the Steelers are currently built now (not in the 70's, or the 90's, but now) that they are much more of an effective passing team than a running team. Can you accept that you have to pass to eventually score? Can you accept that the rest of the team isn't good enough to play this kind of grind-it-out football?

Can you accept that Ben isn't this selfish prick that you make him out to be? Can you accept that he has something like 24 comeback drives in his career? Can you accept that he's a better QB than you make him out to be? Can you accept your criticism of him has reflected more poorly on you than him? Can you accept that QBs are stars in this league, and the Steelers have one? Or god forbid someone seem bigger than the Steeler logo...
I could accept most of that if it were true, but most of it is not. I can't dispute that he has had comeback drives, but you fail to consider the bigger picture. Trying to get that elusive second offensive touchdown of a game with only two minutes to go doesn't mean you're elite. It means you haven't done your job for three and half quarters and only decided to show up at the end of the game, but that was usually on Arians, who we could only have wished hadn't shown up, but he is not our problem anymore.

The problem with your assertion that Ben isn't a selfish prick is that everyone who has ever met the guy without his handlers would consider that a grand understatement, and his always having to be the hero style of play has cost the Steelers some games, and yes, won some too. I just wish he could learn when to be the hero and when to let everyone else do their job. I've heard that he isn't the same now, and it may well be true, but he still plays like he is all that matters, and that is all I can comment on, since I have never met him, and really don't want to.

I absolutely will not consider anyone bigger than the Steelers logo as far as the team goes. Ben is barely worthy to carry Mike Webster's jock to the laundry room, but the Steelers have rolled on and Mike is no longer with us. When Ben retires the Steelers will still be selling tickets and looking for championships, and Ben will just be hoping to find some TV job so anyone remembers who he was. Bradshaw was 10 times the QB Ben even has the potential to be, but nobody remembers just how good he really was. If the guys from the 70s team who are still involved with football aren't bigger than the Steelers what makes Ben bigger than them? Nothing.

IowaSteeler927
09-11-2012, 04:19 AM
IMO we lost the game because we were missing key playmakers. Mendenhall's speed and shiftiness was missed in the running game.I really think they should have utilized Chris Rainey some more just to have some speed at the running back position. Not having Clark on the field hurt us again. Mundy is terrible, and is a liability every time he has to step in for Clark. Ramon Foster isn't what I would call a playmaker but his injury definitely forced us to once again make due with a sort of makeshift offensive line.. I heard the announcer mentioning that with another injury we would have had to have a TE play o-line. That's rather ridiculous.

Harrison was also sorely missed. Woodley seems to get more attention when Harrison isn't on the field. When they are both on the field one of them is usually good for a drive killing sack, or game changing play. I think it is becoming more and more apparent that we don't really have depth on our defense at all. Outside of the starters our depth isn't very good, especially at LB and D-Line. The D-Line has got to step up their play. They were halfway decent against the run but they weren't getting any kind of pressure on Peyton Manning. There were times that i thought Manning could have literally sat in the pocket, pulled out a cell phone to text papa johns for a free pizza, then literally waited for it to arrive, and still had time to eat it. The first half we seemed to be getting a bit of pressure on Manning but in the second half we just weren't doing anything to make his job difficult.

I think the loss lies mainly on the fact we were missing some major contributors on both the offensive and defensive sides of the ball and also on the fact that the defense was just allowing Manning to move the ball up and down the field with ease in the second half. When you dominate a game in time of possession the way we did you should be the winning team. Everyone wants to point fingers at the QB but the defense didn't hold up their end of the bargain. If the defense tackles Thomas on that 70 some yard touchdown play in the second half we could all be celebrating a win instead of discussing a loss.

I would also like to just say that Mike Adams really isn't ready for the speed of this game just yet. I know he's a rookie but he looked like crap.

btaylor179
09-11-2012, 07:54 AM
yea i agree....bb didnt play that well....o line still bad

teegre
09-11-2012, 09:20 AM
That drive in XLV, had it happened, I would not feel the least bit concerned about games like this. I cant explain it because we still have seen 2 Super Bowl wins, but that loss haunts me to no end. It got worse when Eli drove the Giants last Feb. Just give me SB XLV and I would be fine with the steelers not making the playoffs this year. That loss just wont go away.
I was certain that it was going to end like the 2009 regular season match-up against GB: a last-second, game-winning TD pass to Wallace.  

Alas...  

I still can't believe that it didn't happen.  

Technically, I am more "haunted" by XXX, but I definitely feel that XLV ended incorrectly (ie BB was "supposed" to entrench himself as THE best SuperBowl QB in history).  It was set up perfectly for the second-best ending to a SuperBowl (XLIII being the best).  But... well...  it's like someone missed the memo...

Befuddled (more than haunted).  

Bayz101
09-11-2012, 09:28 AM
Funny that Wallace dropped the pass in XLV that would've kept the drive alive, but that's a discussion long worn-out.

GoFor7
09-11-2012, 09:30 AM
Funny that Wallace dropped the pass in XLV that would've kept the drive alive, but that's a discussion long worn-out.

The WRs looked confused in that game.

Bayz101
09-11-2012, 09:35 AM
The WRs looked confused in that game.

All young guys. We need to get back. They'll be ready this time.

teegre
09-11-2012, 09:44 AM
Funny that Wallace dropped the pass in XLV that would've kept the drive alive, but that's a discussion long worn-out.

Please, don't remind me.  I like to daydream about Wallace diving into the left corner of the end-zone, followed by confetti.  

Reality has no place in my XLV.  

Really though, indeed: sadly poetic (for me, considering my daydream) that it was in fact Wallace who "dropped" the final pass.  [Note: I just died, a little more, inside.]  

steelfury02
09-11-2012, 01:24 PM
teegre, just stop - seriously, I have replayed XLV in our favor too many times lol

instead, I have Troy making a game saving INT and getting named MVP.

teegre
09-11-2012, 02:00 PM
teegre, just stop - seriously, I have replayed XLV in our favor too many times lol

instead, I have Troy making a game saving INT and getting named MVP.

I have that dream on Tuesdays; the other six days are all about Wallace. :wink02:

Really though, I've tried to forget it... and then... I will see highlights of that game... and... well... I feel like Morpheus near the end of The Matrix, when Neo gets shot: "No... he IS the one. This can't be!!!" The silver lining is that BB will wake up from the dead & kill Agent Smith (aka win a couple of SuperBowl MVP trophies)... and then make two more unwatchable movies.

FanSince72
09-11-2012, 05:10 PM
Let's take a look at the numbers

Denver out-gained us in total yards.
Denver out-gained us in passing yards.
Denver out-gained us in rushing yards.
Denver's average pass play was twice as long as ours
Denver's average running play was longer than ours

We keep the ball for nearly 9 minutes and increase our lead to 6 points then allow Denver to go 80 yards IN JUST TWO PLAYS to have them take the lead.

Then we score again only to turn around and give up ANOTHER 80 YARDS and allow them to take the lead back.

Ben lost this game?

Really?

Seems to me like Dick LeBeau's predictable and painfully ordinary snooz-fest on defense had a little more to do with it than anything Ben did or didn't do.

But hey... as long asTroy was running around and occasionally bumping into things then it's all good, right?




Please...

GoFor7
09-11-2012, 05:18 PM
Let's take a look at the numbers

Denver out-gained us in total yards.
Denver out-gained us in passing yards.
Denver out-gained us in rushing yards.
Denver's average pass play was twice as long as ours
Denver's average running play was longer than ours

We keep the ball for nearly 9 minutes and increase our lead to 6 points then allow Denver to go 80 yards IN JUST TWO PLAYS to have them take the lead.

Then we score again only to turn around and give up ANOTHER 80 YARDS and allow them to take the lead back.

Ben lost this game?

Really?

Seems to me like Dick LeBeau's predictable and painfully ordinary snooz-fest on defense had a little more to do with it than anything Ben did or didn't do.

But hey... as long asTroy was running around and occasionally bumping into things then it's all good, right?




Please...

You have to understand something - they prefer Ben to be a game manager. The Steelers want to use the RB from Bowie State as their main weapon instead of the franchise QB and his WRs and TE. They especially do this when they face an opposing QB deemed to be elite. Now, you would think ass kickings from Tom Brady would make them realize that's, but no, gotta be the Steeler way. So when they realize this ancient football plan isn't working, only then they unleash Ben. And if he doesn't get it done in the last 2:00, then he stinks. I mean, why let Ben win the game early?

FanSince72
09-11-2012, 06:32 PM
You have to understand something - they prefer Ben to be a game manager. The Steelers want to use the RB from Bowie State as their main weapon instead of the franchise QB and his WRs and TE. They especially do this when they face an opposing QB deemed to be elite. Now, you would think ass kickings from Tom Brady would make them realize that's, but no, gotta be the Steeler way. So when they realize this ancient football plan isn't working, only then they unleash Ben. And if he doesn't get it done in the last 2:00, then he stinks. I mean, why let Ben win the game early?

I agree 100% !!!

Ben likes to throw the ball and he tends to do so better than most QB's in the league. He also seems to have a knack for calling plays based upon what HE sees out on the field as opposed to what an OC "sees" from the sidelines or what "spotters" inside a temperature-controlled room see from a few hundred feet above the field.

I've said before that I'd LOVE to see what would happen if they let Ben call the plays.
But as long as a guy with a clipboard (or a pair of binoculars) is more important to the FO than the guy on the field with the ball in his hand, I guess I'll never find out.

And you're right...I think that most of the Steeler management still thinks they're going to see Terry or Lambert come trotting out onto the field at game time.

The funny thing is that if that's true, then they must also realize that Terry called his own plays (And as I recall, that worked out pretty good).

jiminpa
09-11-2012, 06:39 PM
That's exactly why people like jiminpa give Ben shit. He's deemed the sole reason the Steelers lost that game because he couldn't move the team down the field for a game winning TD.Have you read anything I've posted? My issues with BR are substantive, and I've given them. I'm not fixated on blaming him for the past, I am hoping he can live up to his potential in the future. Apparently, you can't stand any amount of criticism against him, even if it is justified.

jiminpa
09-11-2012, 06:59 PM
I agree 100% !!!

Ben likes to throw the ball and he tends to do so better than most QB's in the league. He also seems to have a knack for calling plays based upon what HE sees out on the field as opposed to what an OC "sees" from the sidelines or what "spotters" inside a temperature-controlled room see from a few hundred feet above the field.

I've said before that I'd LOVE to see what would happen if they let Ben call the plays.
But as long as a guy with a clipboard (or a pair of binoculars) is more important to the FO than the guy on the field with the ball in his hand, I guess I'll never find out.

And you're right...I think that most of the Steeler management still thinks they're going to see Terry or Lambert come trotting out onto the field at game time.

The funny thing is that if that's true, then they must also realize that Terry called his own plays (And as I recall, that worked out pretty good).BR is no Bradshaw.
Bradshaw is smarter than most people realize, but he is also dyslexic, which means it took him longer to figure it out than normal, but once he did he understood what he was doing very well. Bradshaw called the plays, but he did so within Noll's philosophy. Some of you fanboys don't seem to realize that your favorite player has limitations, and he's not very smart.

FanSince72
09-11-2012, 07:22 PM
BR is no Bradshaw.
Bradshaw is smarter than most people realize, but he is also dyslexic, which means it took him longer to figure it out than normal, but once he did he understood what he was doing very well. Bradshaw called the plays, but he did so within Noll's philosophy. Some of you fanboys don't seem to realize that your favorite player has limitations, and he's not very smart.

That's a load of crap.

Ben is quite capable of running this team and is (except for the deep ball) every bit the player that Bradshaw was.

Bradshaw did work with Noll's system and improvised when the situation dictated it and that worked well for him.
Ben, on the other hand, doesn't work well in any "system" and does his best work when he's left to think for himself and he has proven that time and again.

Everyone has limitations, but I believe that for Ben, running an offense isn't one of them. I think he'd do just fine "on his own".

Edman
09-11-2012, 07:27 PM
We put the ball in our playmakers' hands in the Red Zone and at the end of the game and they blew it, just like Last January forcing us into Overtime. It was a total team loss. The D deserves a lions share of the blame of course, however our offense wasn't totally perfect either.

Our great QB had his TE WIDE OPEN in the back of the Endzone and he threw a line drive. 3 Points instead of 6 that would've really changed the makeup of the game.

Edman
09-11-2012, 07:41 PM
That's a load of crap.

Ben is quite capable of running this team and is (except for the deep ball) every bit the player that Bradshaw was.

Bradshaw did work with Noll's system and improvised when the situation dictated it and that worked well for him.
Ben, on the other hand, doesn't work well in any "system" and does his best work when he's left to think for himself and he has proven that time and again.

Everyone has limitations, but I believe that for Ben, running an offense isn't one of them. I think he'd do just fine "on his own".

"Putting the ball in his hands" resulted in our lowest scoring output since 2003. "Let Ben be Ben" resulted in Sacks. "Let Ben be Ben" led Arians to be jettisoned out of town. "Gung-Ho Ben" resulted in getting his ankle shredded last year.

Watching the game, Ben played smarter than I ever saw him play in years. Got rid of the ball quickly, moved more effectively instead of going straight sandlot, and completed passes to move the chains. He looked a lot like 2004/2005 Ben out there. If that makes Ben a "Game Manager" so be it. We tried that "Let him do his thing" for years and it's resulted in nothing but injuries and seasons being cut short. Ben is actually playing like a SMART QUARTERBACK this time. He's actually being methodical. Nickel and Diming Defenses instead running for his damn life and broken plays every time. The Broncos Pass Rush was a total non-factor until the waning minutes of the 4th. Ben dictated the offense down the field instead of just crapshooting boom or bust.

This is Ben's first game in the new offense, he's only going to get better instead of stagnating like the past few years.

GoFor7
09-11-2012, 07:53 PM
"Putting the ball in his hands" resulted in our lowest scoring output since 2003. "Let Ben be Ben" resulted in Sacks. "Let Ben be Ben" led Arians to be jettisoned out of town. "Gung-Ho Ben" resulted in getting his ankle shredded last year.

Actually.... no they didn't. Every year we'd hear how Arians was going to use no-huddle, and every year we've been left with disappointment in that regard.

And I'll take Ben over any of the Steelers RBs anyday.

This is Ben's first game in the new offense, he's only going to get better instead of stagnating like the past few years

Only if they don't wait until the second half to let him play.

Edman
09-11-2012, 09:22 PM
Only if they don't wait until the second half to let him play.

The Steelers would've walked into Halftime with a 14-7 lead. Instead it was 10-7 because who gimped the throw to a WIDE OPEN Heath Miller in the Endzone on 3rd and Goal after driving down the field? It wasn't the Steelers RB's that's for sure.

FrancoLambert
09-11-2012, 09:32 PM
[QUOTE=FanSince72;1028414]That's a load of crap.

Ben is quite capable of running this team and is (except for the deep ball) every bit the player that Bradshaw was.

Bradshaw did work with Noll's system and improvised when the situation dictated it and that worked well for him.
Ben, on the other hand, doesn't work well in any "system" and does his best work when he's left to think for himself and he has proven that time and again.

Everyone has limitations, but I believe that for Ben, running an offense isn't one of them. I think he'd do just fine "on his own".[/QUOTE

"Ben is every bit the player Bradshaw was." Really? :doh:

teegre
09-11-2012, 09:54 PM
I mean, why let Ben win the game early?

Exactly... such as trying a TD pass to Heath... wait... what!?!... they tried that!?! Oh...

teegre
09-11-2012, 10:04 PM
Let's take a look at the numbers

Denver out-gained us in total yards.
Denver out-gained us in passing yards.
Denver out-gained us in rushing yards.
Denver's average pass play was twice as long as ours
Denver's average running play was longer than ours

We keep the ball for nearly 9 minutes and increase our lead to 6 points then allow Denver to go 80 yards IN JUST TWO PLAYS to have them take the lead.

Then we score again only to turn around and give up ANOTHER 80 YARDS and allow them to take the lead back.

Yards... time of possession... third down efficiency... et cetera... POINTS.

7 points > 3 points
DENV was scoring TDs; PITT was scoring FGs.

And, even at the end, despite all of those awesome statistics, PITT was only down by 6. Ergo, a TD wins the game. Alas, it was a pick six, instead.

Also, holding DENV to 24 points was a pretty good night for this defense. This is not the 2008 defense, nor the 90s Blitzburgh defense, nor the 70s Steel Curtain. This is a defense playing in the pass-happy NFL, where a record number of teams scored in the 40s on Sunday. And... 24 is less than 40.

FanSince72
09-12-2012, 09:34 AM
"Putting the ball in his hands" resulted in our lowest scoring output since 2003. "Let Ben be Ben" resulted in Sacks. "Let Ben be Ben" led Arians to be jettisoned out of town. "Gung-Ho Ben" resulted in getting his ankle shredded last year.

Watching the game, Ben played smarter than I ever saw him play in years. Got rid of the ball quickly, moved more effectively instead of going straight sandlot, and completed passes to move the chains. He looked a lot like 2004/2005 Ben out there. If that makes Ben a "Game Manager" so be it. We tried that "Let him do his thing" for years and it's resulted in nothing but injuries and seasons being cut short. Ben is actually playing like a SMART QUARTERBACK this time. He's actually being methodical. Nickel and Diming Defenses instead running for his damn life and broken plays every time. The Broncos Pass Rush was a total non-factor until the waning minutes of the 4th. Ben dictated the offense down the field instead of just crapshooting boom or bust.

This is Ben's first game in the new offense, he's only going to get better instead of stagnating like the past few years.

Well, having a comparatively healthy O-line helps too.

Yes, he's making better decisions now than he has in the past and some of that may be due to coaching but some of that may also be due to maturity on Ben's part.

This shouldn't be an "either / or" type of situation but should rather be a blend of coaching, talent and natural ability.
Basically what I'm saying is that if it's coin toss between Ben's natural talent and some "system", I'll go with talent every time.

drucifer
09-12-2012, 10:16 AM
I'm inclined to blame Peyton Manning and the Broncos' defense. They were the better team.

FanSince72
09-12-2012, 05:28 PM
I'm inclined to blame Peyton Manning and the Broncos' defense. They were the better team.


Sure... start throwing facts around and get everybody riled up! :mad:

IowaSteeler927
09-13-2012, 03:22 AM
BR is no Bradshaw.
Bradshaw is smarter than most people realize, but he is also dyslexic, which means it took him longer to figure it out than normal, but once he did he understood what he was doing very well. Bradshaw called the plays, but he did so within Noll's philosophy. Some of you fanboys don't seem to realize that your favorite player has limitations, and he's not very smart.

Yep Ben is so stupid that he has just helped this team get two Super Bowl rings, the second won he got on an absolutely amazing game winning drive in Super Bowl 43. Yep... seems like a guy that isn't very smart. Go get your brain checked.

drucifer
09-13-2012, 09:29 AM
Sure... start throwing facts around and get everybody riled up! :mad:

My bad! :chuckle:

Though if I were to participate in the "blame Ben" game, you have to admit he hasn't ever been top-tier at reading defenses. Why do you think he needs to extend the play so often?

teegre
09-13-2012, 09:35 AM
My bad! :chuckle:

Though if I were to participate in the "blame Ben" game, you have to admit he hasn't ever been top-tier at reading defenses. Why do you think he needs to extend the play so often?

Yes, he makes the occasional bad read, but his running is/has been mostly due to a porous O-line. Speaking of reads, in 2008, many wanted him to improve his pre-snap reads... and he has.  Currently, many of us want him to have a better red-zone convergence percentage (more TDs)... and we are sure that he will improve (ie by this time next year, expect a scoring machine).

steelfury02
09-13-2012, 09:48 AM
Dear NFL,

After last season and the start of this season, please consider letting the Steelers play their first game of the season, at home, on prime time television, against an AFC opponent. You might even let them play two home games in a row to start, ala your beloved Packers.

Thanks,
Steeler Nation

drucifer
09-13-2012, 11:45 AM
Yes, he makes the occasional bad read, but his running is/has been mostly due to a porous O-line. Speaking of reads, in 2008, many wanted him to improve his pre-snap reads... and he has.  Currently, many of us want him to have a better red-zone convergence percentage (more TDs)... and we are sure that he will improve (ie by this time next year, expect a scoring machine).

I have no doubt that now he's out from under Bruce "Tim Couch" Arians that he will continue to develop for the better.

jiminpa
09-13-2012, 12:15 PM
Yes, he makes the occasional bad read, but his running is/has been mostly due to a porous O-line. Speaking of reads, in 2008, many wanted him to improve his pre-snap reads... and he has.  Currently, many of us want him to have a better red-zone convergence percentage (more TDs)... and we are sure that he will improve (ie by this time next year, expect a scoring machine).Um., no, While the offensive line of the Steelers may have had its flaws, they usually give him 4-5 seconds, which doesn't sound like much, but is actually quite a lot of time. It just takes him 10 seconds to see the wide open receiver standing in the middle of the field waving his arms like a backyard pickup game. Haley is working on that.

TheDude
09-13-2012, 12:19 PM
My bad! :chuckle:

Though if I were to participate in the "blame Ben" game, you have to admit he hasn't ever been top-tier at reading defenses. Why do you think he needs to extend the play so often?

Doug Legursky has had quite a bit to do with that so far this year and last year....he is BRUTAL

teegre
09-13-2012, 02:04 PM
Um., no, While the offensive line of the Steelers may have had its flaws, they usually give him 4-5 seconds, which doesn't sound like much, but is actually quite a lot of time. It just takes him 10 seconds to see the wide open receiver standing in the middle of the field waving his arms like a backyard pickup game. Haley is working on that.

I totally disagree.

1. There are times when the defender is past the OT, before the OT is even out fo his stance.

2. Same goes with the middle of the O-line, where he can barely step up, at times.

3. Plus, his O-line geenrally gives him at least one false start or hold per drive, whichputs him in 2nd (& 3rd) and long... and, in turn, he HAS to look for the 15 yard completion (as opposed to the 3 yard check-down).

I agree:

1. At times, he does not read the defense very well... but, he has indeed improved (specifically, since that disaterous 2008 Eagles game).

2. He needs to start checking down. A 3 yard gain is better than a 7 yard sack (although, BB running around and finding a WR for 20 yards is what he is... and I'll take the occassional sack when the results usually go in his favor).

3. He does not throw the deep ball very accurately; he needs work on that... (maybe he should stick to mid-range passes, where he is great).

OX1947
09-13-2012, 02:14 PM
Ben was getting rid of the ball quicker. It helped with the running back heavy offense in the 1st half but he was throwing it quicker then I saw him before. Our offensive line will never be good unless these (bleep) injuries stop. Steelers lose at least one lineman a game. I can not remember the last time the Steelers went through a 60 min game where a lineman didn't get hurt. It is driving me crazy.

Steelers the last 18 games have not been what they were in the past in the clutch. Ben hasn't had a clutch winning drive against a great team since the ravens playoff game in 2010-11. The defense has been worse in their end of the game execution and killed 2 wins last year, one, that cost the Steelers HFA and the division.

I do not know what the rest of the year will have, but this year looks very similar to last year.