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View Full Version : Time to stick a fork in Polamalu and Harrison


RuHappy69
09-18-2012, 12:38 PM
oft injured and on the bad side of 30 with big contracts. Stupid that they have never addressed safety in the recent drafts and what we have as backups are two undrafted FA's in Mundy and Golden...

Bayz101
09-18-2012, 12:46 PM
No.

Millers the sh!t
09-18-2012, 12:52 PM
It's definitely time to start thinking about replacements but I don't see troy gone for a few seasons.. Harrison maybe a different story. If he doesn't have a great season this year and is injured again. I can see parting with him.

Bayz101
09-18-2012, 12:57 PM
It's not stupid that we didn't address a safety. We locked up two Offensive lineman, and before you even point to DeCastro's injury, it's Marcus Gilbert's fault he's on the IR in the first place. That goes for David Johnson as well.

We made the right draft picks this year all around. Safety wasn't a worry then, and it's not a worry now. We drafted Mundy in '08, and i'm sure we'll pick up a Safety at some point in the '13 draft.

This isn't Troy's last year by ANY means. He's still making an impact defensively. Hell, he caused Manning to take a timeout and nearly shit himself before the ball even snapped. He's still in the QB's head. He's still a threat.

steeltheone
09-18-2012, 01:00 PM
Well, problem is, Tomlin has not developed one good DB since he took over.... I think you are selling TP short, he will be a very big part of our defense.... Harrison is on his last year of his contract, he will probably be gone.

truesteelerfan
09-18-2012, 01:38 PM
Well, problem is, Tomlin has not developed one good DB since he took over.... I think you are selling TP short, he will be a very big part of our defense.... Harrison is on his last year of his contract, he will probably be gone.

I think Harrison is signed thru 2014 isn't he?

Dalarin
09-18-2012, 01:43 PM
You should be a writer for ESPN man... That Overreaction Monday portion could use some help.

TRH
09-18-2012, 01:49 PM
Harrison : everyone has to be wondering if he'll EVER be back again. And if he can come back, he's likely to be much less the player of his former self. Hell, we seen that last year. Its certainly unfortunate, as i love James, but his days as an impactful player could very well be over.

Polamalu : I think he'll be a part for awhile, although i don't think we're going to see "all-pro" caliber play or those unbelievable, highlight-reel plays anymore. Plus he gets burned often. As state above in the thread...he can still get into a QB's head, so thats a plus.

You'll see us start addressing these positions in next years draft (and i'm talking about #1's and # 2's....). Remember, if DeCastro wouldn't have dropped so far down, we would have almost certainly picked D'ante Hightower, the LB, with our 1st pick (who is already becoming a monster over in NE....i wouuld have like to have got him here).

Rockonsteel
09-18-2012, 01:53 PM
It's not stupid that we didn't address a safety. We locked up two Offensive lineman, and before you even point to DeCastro's injury, it's Marcus Gilbert's fault he's on the IR in the first place. That goes for David Johnson as well.

We made the right draft picks this year all around. Safety wasn't a worry then, and it's not a worry now. We drafted Mundy in '08, and i'm sure we'll pick up a Safety at some point in the '13 draft.

This isn't Troy's last year by ANY means. He's still making an impact defensively. Hell, he caused Manning to take a timeout and nearly shit himself before the ball even snapped. He's still in the QB's head. He's still a threat.

I tend to agree they have negelected the S position behind Troy (injury prone) and Ryan Clark (love him, but not true FS, how many ints for his career? 12? For a career for a FS?). I know his value goes way beyond that. Just sayin', would be nice to have FS that can get to few balls now and again.

They have nobody, including Ryan Clark, that can make a play on the ball, who's name is not Troy. Golden showed some glimpses of that in the preseason, but who knows how that works out, right now he's practice squad material. Can't bank on it. We have no quality depth behind Troy and Clark. And NO ballhawks to speak of,

Even Troy, he's a playmaker, but not exactly a ballhawk. Ryan Mundy is a BUM! I will grant that he is a better backup SS, than FS, but he's not really very good at either spot. Unspectacular at best. Golden is the only safety on the roster that even remotely shows he has the kind of range you would like FS to have.

We need to get some young talent groomed at both S positions, and I mean somebody other than "just another warm body" Ryan Mundy.

Rockon

steeltheone
09-18-2012, 01:58 PM
I think Harrison is signed thru 2014 isn't he?

Looks like you are correct... I don't know why I was thinking this year was it....Good thing, we have no replacement!!!

Fire Arians
09-18-2012, 02:05 PM
Looks like you are correct... I don't know why I was thinking this year was it....Good thing, we have no replacement!!!

we got worilds, who can get injured from giving someone a high-five

stb_steeler
09-18-2012, 02:14 PM
we got worilds, who can get injured from giving someone a high-five

You saying hes a bust?....lol

Bayz101
09-18-2012, 02:15 PM
we got worilds, who can get injured from giving someone a high-five

I'm actually impressed with Worilds outside of the injuries though.

Rockonsteel
09-18-2012, 02:19 PM
I'm actually impressed with Worilds outside of the injuries though.

Why?

Rockon

Bayz101
09-18-2012, 02:30 PM
Why?

Rockon

He sacked Peyton Manning in week one and recorded three tackles. Also managed to grab a tackle this week. He showed a great deal of speed, and he's a pretty strong looking guy as well. Outside of his injuries he's played great when given the chance. I recall him grabbing two sacks in San Francisco last year as well.

Bayz101
09-18-2012, 02:34 PM
I tend to agree they have negelected the S position behind Troy (injury prone) and Ryan Clark (love him, but not true FS, how many ints for his career? 12? For a career for a FS?). I know his value goes way beyond that. Just sayin', would be nice to have FS that can get to few balls now and again.

They have nobody, including Ryan Clark, that can make a play on the ball, who's name is not Troy. Golden showed some glimpses of that in the preseason, but who knows how that works out, right now he's practice squad material. Can't bank on it. We have no quality depth behind Troy and Clark. And NO ballhawks to speak of,

Even Troy, he's a playmaker, but not exactly a ballhawk. Ryan Mundy is a BUM! I will grant that he is a better backup SS, than FS, but he's not really very good at either spot. Unspectacular at best. Golden is the only safety on the roster that even remotely shows he has the kind of range you would like FS to have.

We need to get some young talent groomed at both S positions, and I mean somebody other than "just another warm body" Ryan Mundy.

Rockon

I agree we need better backups in the secondary, but I disagree that we've neglected that. In fact, we've selected a LOT of corners in recent years, and a couple of them can start. Safeties will come next year. We did the right thing in addressing our offensive line future this year.

Darkstorm05
09-18-2012, 02:56 PM
Harrison is the big question, IMO. He's going to be owed just over 10 mil next year. If he comes back after the bye, and tears it up, then he likely stays. If he struggles, gets injured again, etc., I see him taking a big cut, or being cut outright. Of course, with the cap being tight, one can never tell just what might happen. If you had asked me last year who would get cut this offseason...Ward or Hampton, I'd have laughed and said Hampton is gone.

Troy is a whole other thing. I don't think they would cut Troy, or ask him to cut his payday, at least not by much. But he's due 10 mil next year, and 11 the year after. He DOES NOT play at an 11 million dollar level these days. I kind of expect he'll finish this contract and then retire rich.

Galax Steeler
09-18-2012, 02:59 PM
I have to say I am not ready to stick a fork in Troy, call it what you want but he can still be a play maker as Bayz said above I believe that a safety will be taken this year. Everyone has an opinion but to say that Troy is done is unreal.

steelfan23
09-18-2012, 03:21 PM
Harrison is a bad man. He is just injured. If healthy I have no doubt he will produce like always. Remember, he has less wear and tear on his body due to his late start. Troy is a shell of himself. He spends too much time on Head and Shoulders commercials and less working out. If you remember he ran a sub 4.4 when he was drafted. Speed and ferocity were his calling cards. Whether due to the injury he suffered before the SB vs. GB or age, he is not nearly the quick sudden impact player he was before. He is actually a liability in pass pro. He lost it fast. I venture to guess we draft impact safety number one next year or corner, whichever is BPA where we draft. No way we can win a SB with our secondary.

Fire Arians
09-18-2012, 03:25 PM
I'm actually impressed with Worilds outside of the injuries though.

he's a good player when he's on the field, but the dude is like ma'afala, him staying healthy is a pipe dream. I hope I'm wrong though and his last 2 seasons of blown opportunities is just fluke injuries

Rockonsteel
09-18-2012, 03:33 PM
I agree we need better backups in the secondary, but I disagree that we've neglected that. In fact, we've selected a LOT of corners in recent years, and a couple of them can start. Safeties will come next year. We did the right thing in addressing our offensive line future this year.

True about drafting O-line in this year's draft. Absolutely the right move. But, we need an infusion of youth/talent at safety position bad, and those guys are not on the roster right now, IMO. The last time they even looked in that direction was Anthony Smith. He turned out to be a bust and such a headcase, maybe he scared them off.

Rockon

rich4eagle
09-18-2012, 06:15 PM
Harrison : everyone has to be wondering if he'll EVER be back again. And if he can come back, he's likely to be much less the player of his former self. Hell, we seen that last year. Its certainly unfortunate, as i love James, but his days as an impactful player could very well be over.

Polamalu : I think he'll be a part for awhile, although i don't think we're going to see "all-pro" caliber play or those unbelievable, highlight-reel plays anymore. Plus he gets burned often. As state above in the thread...he can still get into a QB's head, so thats a plus.

You'll see us start addressing these positions in next years draft (and i'm talking about #1's and # 2's....). Remember, if DeCastro wouldn't have dropped so far down, we would have almost certainly picked D'ante Hightower, the LB, with our 1st pick (who is already becoming a monster over in NE....i wouuld have like to have got him here).

good thoughts and basically what the steeers have been doing for years......lets see how this plays out next year

Sunday was awesome.......GO

Steelers...........let the good times roll:tt04:

Bayz101
09-18-2012, 06:21 PM
Oh, and Goodell fined Harrison because the thread creator used violence in the thread title.

teegre
09-18-2012, 06:39 PM
To clarify:  
Troy was sloooow in college.  He has never been fast.  That's why he didn't go top ten (despite being crazy good in college).  Obviously, he was a steal at 15 (thank goodness that 14 teams deemed him too slow).  

Anyway, Troy's knack in college & now is being in the right spot.  He out-thinks QBs.  

Again, he never had much straight-line speed.  And, he didn't need it, because he was always in the right position.  

Now... that said, what is indeed withering is his explosiveness (and/or suddenness)... his ability to close on a ball carrier, to change directions on a dime, and to break on passes.  He still knows where he should be/should go... he is just a split-second less explosive in getting there.  

And, even when (in two years) he's not explosive at all, he will still out-think the opposing QB eighty-five percent of the time.  Best example: Peyton (the master of the pre-snap) called a time out and looked flustered on back-to-back plays.  

Troy is to the SS, that Peyton is to the QB: 75% of their greatness comes PRE-snap.  

LayingTheWoodley56
09-18-2012, 07:27 PM
I would agree that their are concerns with both, but they are mainly of the injury variety. Harrison's back and knees are extremely worrisome, but he was getting his sacks last year when he was actually playing. It depends on how he comes back healthwise, but he will still be a much better pass rusher than most teams have. Good point made above me; he does have a lot less wear and tear in the NFL than a lot of guys his age due to the fact that he was cut like 4 times. When it comes to his replacement, Chris Carter does not inspire much confidence in me at this point, but there is still a little hope for Worilds. And don't forget we have a young beast in Woodley on the other side!

As for Troy, he's always been nicked up the last couple of seasons. He doesn't make the explosive game-changing plays like he used to and that can be attributed to injuries and the fact that he's in his 9th NFL season. He still has a couple of starter-caliber years in him. We have time to draft a safety in the first round and develop him before then.

casteeler
09-18-2012, 09:46 PM
Well, problem is, Tomlin has not developed one good DB since he took over.... I think you are selling TP short, he will be a very big part of our defense.... Harrison is on his last year of his contract, he will probably be gone.



Excellent point! Tomlin hasn't even addressed the DB issue let alone developed one.

steelfan23
09-18-2012, 09:56 PM
To clarify:  
Troy was sloooow in college.  He has never been fast.  That's why he didn't go top ten (despite being crazy good in college).  Obviously, he was a steal at 15 (thank goodness that 14 teams deemed him too slow).  

Anyway, Troy's knack in college & now is being in the right spot.  He out-thinks QBs.  

Again, he never had much straight-line speed.  And, he didn't need it, because he was always in the right position.  

Now... that said, what is indeed withering is his explosiveness (and/or suddenness)... his ability to close on a ball carrier, to change directions on a dime, and to break on passes.  He still knows where he should be/should go... he is just a split-second less explosive in getting there.  

And, even when (in two years) he's not explosive at all, he will still out-think the opposing QB eighty-five percent of the time.  Best example: Peyton (the master of the pre-snap) called a time out and looked flustered on back-to-back plays.  

Troy is to the SS, that Peyton is to the QB: 75% of their greatness comes PRE-snap.  

I will try to be polite when I say this...dude you are clueless. Troy was very fast. He fell in the draft slightly due to team needs and also an injury that forced him to miss Senior Bowl and combine. He did have a pro day where he ran a 4.35 forty and had a 43 inch verticle. That is sick athleticism. I doubt there has ever been a faster safety. So you are kinda talking out your butt. Even then he was considered less than stellar in coverage and someone who took risks and bad angles. This has not been disproven up to this point. It's just his speed, quickness, and like you said, intelligence that has made him so successful. I don't think he even runs sub 4.5 now and that is a huge difference. It causes him to cheat a little more and he can be made to look foolish like he did vs. GB in the SB. He is all done. Great player. But he needed a couple of more dominant years to be a shoo in HOF. Now, not so sure. If we had one great corner and a serviceable 2nd CB then he would look so much better but his days of being able to compensate for poor CB play are over.

teegre
09-18-2012, 10:27 PM
I will try to be polite when I say this...dude you are clueless. Troy was very fast. He fell in the draft slightly due to team needs and also an injury that forced him to miss Senior Bowl and combine. He did have a pro day where he ran a 4.35 forty and had a 43 inch verticle. That is sick athleticism. I doubt there has ever been a faster safety. So you are kinda talking out your butt. Even then he was considered less than stellar in coverage and someone who took risks and bad angles. This has not been disproven up to this point. It's just his speed, quickness, and like you said, intelligence that has made him so successful. I don't think he even runs sub 4.5 now and that is a huge difference. It causes him to cheat a little more and he can be made to look foolish like he did vs. GB in the SB. He is all done. Great player. But he needed a couple of more dominant years to be a shoo in HOF. Now, not so sure. If we had one great corner and a serviceable 2nd CB then he would look so much better but his days of being able to compensate for poor CB play are over.

Clueless.  Good approach to a discussion.  

I'll continue WITHOUT the sophomoric name-calling.  

Obviously, I could be wrong (all I have is my memory, which isn't what it used to be), but I usually know what I'm talking about... and I'd hardly say that I'm clueless.  

Anyway... having watched nearly three years of his games, week in & week out, in college:  he was great, but deemed too slow.  Before the draft, due to this "too slow" label,  I remember that I was happy that he might fall, since the Steelers were picking late.  The two safeties that I was looking at were Troy & Asomugha... because both were graded as late round-one talents.  I hoped that Troy would fall, but was thinking that Asomugha would be the more "realistic" pick.  

And then, the Steelers traded up... and I nearly p*ssed myself with excitement.  

Again, my "memory" is not what it used to be... and I very well could be wrong... 

teegre
09-18-2012, 10:56 PM
True about drafting O-line in this year's draft. Absolutely the right move. But, we need an infusion of youth/talent at safety position bad, and those guys are not on the roster right now, IMO. The last time they even looked in that direction was Anthony Smith. He turned out to be a bust and such a headcase, maybe he scared them off.

Rockon

True: they haven't spent draft picks on safeties... because they already had two great starters.

They HAD to get O-linemen... they only had one good starter.

Safety versus O-line: two starters versus one real starter... again, O-line HAD to be the pick.

The GOOD news: this is THE year of the safety. There are a plethora of R1-R2 safeties: Reid, Lester, McDonald, Elam... and two or three others.

Sean95m
09-18-2012, 11:11 PM
Anytime those guys are on the field they are 2 of the best at there respected positions. Until you can say they aren't have a coke and a smile and stop posting dumb stuff like this and waiting our times reading it. Just sayin.....

desertsteel
09-19-2012, 12:19 AM
Yeah I think they are both basically DONE, as we have come to know them - game changers. I hope I'm wrong but I don't see them playing full seasons for the Steelers ever again.

lloydwoodson
09-19-2012, 12:25 AM
When it comes to 34 OLBs I would rank Harrison second in the league behind D Ware. Aaron Smith hung around for 3 seasons injured and isnt the force Debo is. In 4 years Polamalu will still be better than half the SS in the league. I think he has the best intuition of any defender all time it is unreal. They might restructure but I think both will be around for at least another 2 seasons.

tony hipchest
09-19-2012, 12:42 AM
this thread might as well be merged with the "ike taylor sucks" thread.

some people in this thread think you just pluck guys like harrison, bettis, ward, and polamalu of trees.

cVDI4HvgvSM

minus the ticket oak commercial, this thread pretty much sucks just as bad.

Hawaii 5-0
09-19-2012, 01:04 AM
Harrison, Polamalu still questionable for Steelers

By WILL GRAVES (AP Sports Writer)


PITTSBURGH (AP) -- Mike Tomlin still isn't sure when injured defensive stars James Harrison or Troy Polamalu are going to be healthy enough to play.

The Pittsburgh Steelers coach isn't against amending one of his longtime rules either, if it means one or both of his perennial All-Pros will be on the field in Oakland on Sunday.

Harrison, who is recovering from right knee surgery, and Polamalu, who is dealing with a strained right calf, will have informal workouts this week.

Tomlin hinted Tuesday that neither veteran would have to practice to face the Raiders (0-2). Traditionally Tomlin likes his players to get at least one day of training in during the week leading up to a game before letting them loose on Sunday.

He's willing to make an exception, however, for two cornerstones of Pittsburgh's 3-4 defense.

''I handle all of those situations really on a case-by-case basis,'' Tomlin said, ''with the understanding that the younger you are, the more inexperienced you are, the more practices are necessary before I consider utilizing you.''

Meaning the well-established Harrison or Polamalu might not have to see the practice field. Harrison hasn't played since a playoff loss in Denver nine months ago, while Polamalu's calf didn't respond quickly to treatment last week after sustaining the injury in a season-opening loss to the Broncos.

The duo was hardly needed in a 27-10 romp over the New York Jets on Sunday. The Steelers (1-1) shut down New York in the second half, holding the Jets to just 91 yards over the final two quarters to win going away.

Tomlin insisted, however, his team was far from perfect. Pittsburgh struggled to run the ball, finishing with just 66 yards on 28 carries. Through two weeks, the Steelers are ranked 30th in the league in rushing yards.

While he was pleased the Steelers were able to run effectively on a game-clinching fourth-quarter touchdown drive, Tomlin believes there's more work to be done.

''That's not what I'm looking for,'' he said. ''I'm actually looking for better than that.''

Help could come in Oakland. Running back Rashard Mendenhall is inching closer to returning after January surgery to repair a torn ACL in his right knee. Mendenhall has practiced in each of the last two weeks and could see an even heavier workload in the next few days.

''Maybe we will bump him around a little more in practice this week,'' Tomlin said. ''He has done a nice job of running and cutting at full speed. Now, let's see if he can play a little football.''

The Steelers may need Mendenhall sooner rather than later now that backup Jonathan Dwyer is dealing with turf toe. Dwyer has been a pleasant surprise through two games, providing what little spark the running game has seen and proving to be nimble catching passes out of the backfield.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/harriso...GlvbnM-;_ylv=3

steelfan23
09-19-2012, 10:15 AM
Clueless.  Good approach to a discussion.  

I'll continue WITHOUT the sophomoric name-calling.  

Obviously, I could be wrong (all I have is my memory, which isn't what it used to be), but I usually know what I'm talking about... and I'd hardly say that I'm clueless.  

Anyway... having watched nearly three years of his games, week in & week out, in college:  he was great, but deemed too slow.  Before the draft, due to this "too slow" label,  I remember that I was happy that he might fall, since the Steelers were picking late.  The two safeties that I was looking at were Troy & Asomugha... because both were graded as late round-one talents.  I hoped that Troy would fall, but was thinking that Asomugha would be the more "realistic" pick.  

And then, the Steelers traded up... and I nearly p*ssed myself with excitement.  

Again, my "memory" is not what it used to be... and I very well could be wrong... 

I apologize for the 'sophmoric' comments. But there are opinions and then there are facts. You opine as if they are facts and that makes it a clueless statement. You ARE dead wrong as he DID run a 4.35 forty at his combine and is considered as far as I know one of the fastest safeties (at least with talent) that has ever come around. Saying he is slow or was deemed slow is just wrong because it's not true in the slightest. So that is why I felt the need to correct you. But instead of just googling the topic and finding out for yourself you say you 'may' be wrong and continue the discussion which could have been handled by finding the truth out and saying 'my bad, I stand corrected'. Not a big deal but bears repeating. When you state things as fact when it's really just your opinion you may rub people the wrong way. Truce!

teegre
09-19-2012, 10:37 AM
I apologize for the 'sophmoric' comments. But there are opinions and then there are facts. You opine as if they are facts and that makes it a clueless statement. You ARE dead wrong as he DID run a 4.35 forty at his combine and is considered as far as I know one of the fastest safeties (at least with talent) that has ever come around. Saying he is slow or was deemed slow is just wrong because it's not true in the slightest. So that is why I felt the need to correct you. But instead of just googling the topic and finding out for yourself you say you 'may' be wrong and continue the discussion which could have been handled by finding the truth out and saying 'my bad, I stand corrected'. Not a big deal but bears repeating. When you state things as fact when it's really just your opinion you may rub people the wrong way. Truce!

1. I was wrong... my bad, I stand corrected... his forty time is listed as 4.33.

1-a. Forty time or not, the "experts" (the Mel Kiper, Jr. types) deemed him to be slow.

1-b. Q: When did I ever claim to know what his forty time was or not?

2. You act as if I attacked you personally. Why? In a thread bashing Troy, I was merely adding my two cents (i.e. that Troy's main asset is brain). I was trying to defend a player who I feel still has his main asset (his brain). Peyton's arm is not what it used to be; Troy's explosiveness is not what it used to be; but, they both have their brains.

2-a. Do you go through the threads, finding every single mis-quoted "fact" and call other posters clueless? Just wondering. Because, I am sure that if you read through this thread, there are other "facts vs. opinions" that you could find that are erroneous. Are you going to spend the rest of the day posting to these people about how clueless they are, as well... or, is it just me that you are targeting? Thus, again, you act as though I attacked you personally... why?

Again, I was wrong, Troy is slower than he used to be.

LVSteelersfan
09-19-2012, 10:53 AM
Who knows about the future. Every year I hear about how Troy is a workout dynamo in the offseason. But he ends up with stupid things like calf injuries that take him out every year for multiple games. It is just disheartening when your star players can't seem to stay on the field. I am not surprised Harrison is always hurt. The way he plays his knees and back have to take a beating. He pretty much does the same thing on every play when he rushes the QB. And the big a $ $ left tackle leans on him on every single play putting pressure on his knees and back. Year after year of that takes its toll. I really wish he would learn a Freeney like spin move and go inside the tackle once in awhile to change it up a little bit.

FanSince72
09-19-2012, 12:31 PM
I will try to be polite when I say this...dude you are clueless. Troy was very fast. He fell in the draft slightly due to team needs and also an injury that forced him to miss Senior Bowl and combine. He did have a pro day where he ran a 4.35 forty and had a 43 inch verticle. That is sick athleticism. I doubt there has ever been a faster safety. So you are kinda talking out your butt. Even then he was considered less than stellar in coverage and someone who took risks and bad angles. This has not been disproven up to this point. It's just his speed, quickness, and like you said, intelligence that has made him so successful. I don't think he even runs sub 4.5 now and that is a huge difference. It causes him to cheat a little more and he can be made to look foolish like he did vs. GB in the SB. He is all done. Great player. But he needed a couple of more dominant years to be a shoo in HOF. Now, not so sure. If we had one great corner and a serviceable 2nd CB then he would look so much better but his days of being able to compensate for poor CB play are over.

I like Troy.

That said, I have to agree with most of what Steelfan23 wrote.

Troy can blow up plays, he has an incredible ability to do some amazingly athletic things and he has certainly made more than a few game-changing plays, but I still have no real sense of exactly what his purpose is on the field.

For all his speed and quickness, I think he either overruns a play or misses tackles far more often than most other "slower" safeties in the league. He DOES tend to take bad angles (which contributes to a lot of those missed tackles) and he does take too many risks many of which put him completely out of a play and actually allow an opponent to gain significant yardage.

He's fun to watch, but more in the way that I'd regard watching a juggler or a high-wire act; lots of talent but little practical purpose.

SH-Rock
09-19-2012, 01:20 PM
Why do one of these threads pop up every week. Last week Ike, this week polamalu and harrison.

Steelers5895
09-19-2012, 01:24 PM
i think Troy is still a factor and although he has lost a step, he still makes an impact. Same with harrison when he plays. Both are probably 1-3 years from no longer being a steeler.

the concern is LB after LB has filled in for harrison with no sucess.

Fire Arians
09-19-2012, 01:26 PM
i think Troy is still a factor and although he has lost a step, he still makes an impact. Same with harrison when he plays. Both are probably 1-3 years from no longer being a steeler.

the concern is LB after LB has filled in for harrison with no sucess.

If Worilds can stay healthy, he would be a good replacement. He's got the talent, but he needs to prove he can stay off the injury list for at least a full season before I put my faith behind him.

teegre
09-19-2012, 01:44 PM
For all his speed and quickness, I think he either overruns a play or misses tackles far more often than most other "slower" safeties in the league. He DOES tend to take bad angles (which contributes to a lot of those missed tackles) and he does take too many risks many of which put him completely out of a play and actually allow an opponent to gain significant yardage.

He's fun to watch, but more in the way that I'd regard watching a juggler or a high-wire act; lots of talent but little practical purpose.

1. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are saying that now that he is slower, he won't be over-running plays any more. By being a tad bit slower, he will actually be in perfect position. :wink02:

Obviosuly, I'm being toungue in cheek... then again, I hadn't thought about it that way, and that is an interesting idea. A slower Troy might actually be out of position less & make more tackles. Hmmm...

2. In all seriousness, would you reeeeally rather have a slower safety than Troy? Heck, would you rather have ANY other safety? Really? C'mon, man... really?

Aside from Ed Reed, there was a period where I would not have even looked at another safety. Those two were in another echelon.

I could be biased (being a SC homer), but I think Troy was one of the greatest players to ever play football.

Even now, there is barely five other safeties that I'd even consider... Ed Reed, Eric Berry, maybe Eric Weddle... uh... I can't really think of any others off the top of my head. Would you HONESTLY rather have one of them than Troy???

SoCalFan
09-19-2012, 02:29 PM
Worilds is no Harrison and Troy we all know is on his own planet!!! I say we keep them both sidelined and bring them back week 13-14! Imagine making the playoffs with these guys rested and hungry!!!

FanSince72
09-19-2012, 03:08 PM
1. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are saying that now that he is slower, he won't be over-running plays any more. By being a tad bit slower, he will actually be in perfect position. :wink02:

Obviosuly, I'm being toungue in cheek... then again, I hadn't thought about it that way, and that is an interesting idea. A slower Troy might actually be out of position less & make more tackles. Hmmm...

To be perfectly honest, I've actually had that conversation many times and I've said that maybe getting older will help because he won't be over-running plays as much.
So it's not as tongue in cheek as you might think.


2. In all seriousness, would you reeeeally rather have a slower safety than Troy? Heck, would you rather have ANY other safety? Really? C'mon, man... really?

Aside from Ed Reed, there was a period where I would not have even looked at another safety. Those two were in another echelon.

I could be biased (being a SC homer), but I think Troy was one of the greatest players to ever play football.

Even now, there is barely five other safeties that I'd even consider... Ed Reed, Eric Berry, maybe Eric Weddle... uh... I can't really think of any others off the top of my head. Would you HONESTLY rather have one of them than Troy???

I'd rather Troy was more focused and less of an un-guided missile.
Think about it: How many times have you watched a pass play develop and as the camera zooms in, this black and gold blur shoots across the screen, grabs a bit of the receiver's jersey and then continues off screen towards the sidelines?

Now take the same play, with Troy more in position with a solid angle and more deliberate movement and now he's actually part of the play instead of part of the scenery.

I'm not saying he isn't a good player, but I don't think I'd put him in a "Greatest Ever" category. Unique, athletic, interesting - yes.

But "greatest"?

Not so much.

Give me someone like Mel Blount or Donnie Shell any day.

teegre
09-19-2012, 03:10 PM
Worilds is no Harrison and Troy we all know is on his own planet!!! I say we keep them both sidelined and bring them back week 13-14! Imagine making the playoffs with these guys rested and hungry!!!

That is effing brilliant.

What a concept... allowing a player to actually heal. Why can you & I see that, but Colbert (& Tomlin) are rushing these guys back!?!

Now, I'm not saying that I'd necesarily wait until week thirteen... but, maybe week six or seven. Simply, I agree with the sentiment of your post.

You know what sucks. This was the year where they could have kept Casey, Harrison, Mendy, and Worilds on the pup, until after the sixth game, with NO repurcussions. Yet, Colbert took them all off... and here they are, playing hurt (Casey, Worilds) or not playing (Harrison, Mendy).

They could NOT have put Troy on the PUP list, since he was injured after the start of the season... but, if those other four were on the PUP, then there would have been four other players active on the roster, which would allow Troy to sit & rest. Yet, as it is, five roster spots are taken up by guys who can not "really" play.

teegre
09-19-2012, 03:20 PM
To be perfectly honest, I've actually had that conversation many times and I've said that maybe getting older will help because he won't be over-running plays as much.
So it's not as tongue in cheek as you might think.




I'd rather Troy was more focused and less of an un-guided missile.
Think about it: How many times have you watched a pass play develop and as the camera zooms in, this black and gold blur shoots across the screen, grabs a bit of the receiver's jersey and then continues off screen towards the sidelines?

Now take the same play, with Troy more in position with a solid angle and more deliberate movement and now he's actually part of the play instead of part of the scenery.

I'm not saying he isn't a good player, but I don't think I'd put him in a "Greatest Ever" category. Unique, athletic, interesting - yes.

But "greatest"?

Not so much.

Give me someone like Mel Blount or Donnie Shell any day.

1. The tongue in cheek came from my side. I was the one being tongue in cheek... but, maybe, to a degree, you are correct. Now, I'm not going to say that he'd be "better" as a "slower" player, but maybe his role changes.

Less of the spinning dervish.
More of a Carnell Lake.

2. I disgree... I like the unguided missle style. It confuses the offense... and creates havoc.

[This might be a vanilla versus chocolate type of debate, where we have our own personal preferences. But, I shall go forth regardless.]

My complaint is not Troy flying into the screen... it is with him using his shoulders to tackle (as opposed to wrapping up).

I'd take Mel Blount over Troy... barely. But, I'd definitely take Troy over Shell.

As far as modern safeties... would you take anyone over Troy? (Ed Reed aside.)

jjpro11
09-19-2012, 03:22 PM
Lets wait and see how Harrison performs on the field first. People were pissy last year when he got hurt. Once he returned; he was his usual dominating self. The one mistake the Steelers and Harrison made was not getting the knee operated on sooner.

FanSince72
09-19-2012, 03:55 PM
1. The tongue in cheek came from my side. I was the one being tongue in cheek... but, maybe, to a degree, you are correct. Now, I'm not going to say that he'd be "better" as a "slower" player, but maybe his role changes.

Less of the spinning dervish.
More of a Carnell Lake.

2. I disgree... I like the unguided missle style. It confuses the offense... and creates havoc.

[This might be a vanilla versus chocolate type of debate, where we have our own personal preferences. But, I shall go forth regardless.]

My complaint is not Troy flying into the screen... it is with him using his shoulders to tackle (as opposed to wrapping up).

I'd take Mel Blount over Troy... barely. But, I'd definitely take Troy over Shell.

As far as modern safeties... would you take anyone over Troy? (Ed Reed aside.)

Troy may have confused defenses a few years back, but since he isn't the world's greatest tackler and since he often over-runs plays, I think his presence is less of an issue for offenses than it used to be because teams now have a book on him and know his weaknesses (he's not the novelty he once was).

On the other hand, when Troy plays in the box against a running play or a short pass situation he still is quite the novelty.
He is exceptional in those situations even if he doesn't actually hit anyone because he does tend to "blow up" plays and force QB's or running backs to do things that were not part of their original plan.

But as a safety in the open field, I think Troy is just slightly above average especially when it comes to tackling.

As far as who else I'd like to see?
Reed would be my first choice but since he's off the table I wouldn't mind having either Antrel Rolle or Dashon Goldson.
I think I'd lean a bit more towards Goldson as an overall safety but for hard tackling I'd go with Rolle.

Hawaii 5-0
09-19-2012, 08:00 PM
The Steelers had a lot of potential starters out of practice Wednesday. The full list: RB Jonathan Dwyer (toe), T Marcus Gilbert (groin), LB James Harrison (knee), TE Heath Miller (abdomen), S Troy Polamalu (calf), WR Emmanuel Sanders (knee), and WR Mike Wallace (groin).

We'd be surprised if Harrison or Polamalu play this week.

http://m.nfl.com/news/0ap1000000064109/week-3-injuries-you-need-to-know/

teegre
09-19-2012, 08:16 PM
On the other hand, when Troy plays in the box against a running play or a short pass situation he still is quite the novelty.
He is exceptional in those situations even if he doesn't actually hit anyone because he does tend to "blow up" plays and force QB's or running backs to do things that were not part of their original plan.

That is what I love about him... exactly that... "blowing stuff up."

But as a safety in the open field, I think Troy is just slightly above average especially when it comes to tackling.

I will agree to that. That said, I think that him moving around gets into QBs' heads. They "have" to locate him... which makes them hesitate, even for a second... which disrupts timing routes. Ergo, he "blows up" secondary play by being "out there... somewhere."

As far as who else I'd like to see?
Reed would be my first choice but since he's off the table I wouldn't mind having either Antrel Rolle or Dashon Goldson.
I think I'd lean a bit more towards Goldson as an overall safety but for hard tackling I'd go with Rolle.

Q: Are you saying that you'd take these guys over Troy now?... or, Troy in his prime?

In his prime, I wouldn't even take Ed Reed over Troy. But, currently... well... Eric Berry is the only one who I know for sure that I'd take over Troy.

austinfrench76
09-19-2012, 10:37 PM
Both guys are phenomenal but to call Troy average is silly. Guys one of a kind and every NFL player and pundit I have ever heard speak say the same thing. Those are the people who's opinion really count. They've played the game and know how truly special he is. Either way we need them both. Hope they don't play till after the bye!

steelfan23
09-19-2012, 10:45 PM
Troy in his prime, and I believe that was in 05 as evidenced by his incredible play during and through the playoffs...maybe a couple years after as well, was simply incredible. He was a game changer. IMHO is loss of speed either due to aging or injuries has magnified his short comings i.e poor angles, risk taking, subpar in coverage. He is not even a top 10 safety in my book if you are talking this year and going forward. I have him after these guys:

Goldson
Earl Thomas
Ed Reed
Adrian Wilson
Charles Woodson
Weddel
Rolle
Griffin
Whitner
Eric Berry

there are degrees of separation but I really think Troy's play has fallen off a cliff. I have never seen a more lost player than how he looked in that SB vs. GB. It was an embarassing performance which I mainly attribute to his health. From late that season till today he looks completely different. Sure, like a heavyweight boxer he still has a killer right cross and can deliver the occasional nice play but he looks past his prime to me. Now Harrison, when he is on the field still looks as good as they come. He tried to play through injuries and you could tell he just wasn't healthy but once he is I anticipate his play to be stellar to be followed by a pretty nice FA contract, just not from us.

tony hipchest
09-19-2012, 11:45 PM
"troys loss of speed and taking poor angles" :rofl:

when troy is healthy, the ONLY time i see him miss is when he is rushing in so fast like a torpedo, he cannot change direction quick enough to account for another players juke. everyone forgets that the other players get paid and got moves too.

many times troy going TOO FAST is his worst enemy. call it over persuit.

i dont understand theis other bullshit people are talking.

those who say troy is done never saw rod woodson play with the raiders. the OP shoulda stuck a fork in this thread before they clicked "submit".

jjpro11
09-19-2012, 11:48 PM
Troy in his prime, and I believe that was in 05 as evidenced by his incredible play during and through the playoffs...maybe a couple years after as well, was simply incredible. He was a game changer. IMHO is loss of speed either due to aging or injuries has magnified his short comings i.e poor angles, risk taking, subpar in coverage. He is not even a top 10 safety in my book if you are talking this year and going forward. I have him after these guys:

Goldson
Earl Thomas
Ed Reed
Adrian Wilson
Charles Woodson
Weddel
Rolle
Griffin
Whitner
Eric Berry

there are degrees of separation but I really think Troy's play has fallen off a cliff. I have never seen a more lost player than how he looked in that SB vs. GB. It was an embarassing performance which I mainly attribute to his health. From late that season till today he looks completely different. Sure, like a heavyweight boxer he still has a killer right cross and can deliver the occasional nice play but he looks past his prime to me. Now Harrison, when he is on the field still looks as good as they come. He tried to play through injuries and you could tell he just wasn't healthy but once he is I anticipate his play to be stellar to be followed by a pretty nice FA contract, just not from us.

He played with an injured Achilles in the Super Bowl and apparently played hurt in Denver. I thought he had a pretty damn good 2011. He's never going to be the same as when he was in his mid 20s. He's still among the very best. His injuries are frustrating, but he is a fairly undersized guy who plays reckless and with the physicality of a linebacker. Injuries are inevitable. It's the price he pays. I think you are really undervaluing him by putting him below all those safeties.

FanSince72
09-19-2012, 11:54 PM
That is what I love about him... exactly that... "blowing stuff up."



I will agree to that. That said, I think that him moving around gets into QBs' heads. They "have" to locate him... which makes them hesitate, even for a second... which disrupts timing routes. Ergo, he "blows up" secondary play by being "out there... somewhere."



Q: Are you saying that you'd take these guys over Troy now?... or, Troy in his prime?

In his prime, I wouldn't even take Ed Reed over Troy. But, currently... well... Eric Berry is the only one who I know for sure that I'd take over Troy.

I'd take them "now".

But don't forget, Troy "In his prime" was a very new thing in football.
He was looked upon in a way that someone might look at a being who just emerged from an alien spaceship.
He didn't "look" like a football player and he didn't talk like one either.
He was different.
Because he was so different, he became the "Shiny Object" that attracted everyone's attention and I think a lot of people were awed by him (like seeing the Grand Canyon for the first time) and I think some of that influenced their assessment of him as a player. In other words, he was a unique person so he must be a special player too.

Don't get me wrong -- Troy in his prime WAS a special player but I never saw him as exceptional. Very good, gifted, things like that but not exceptional (mainly for the reasons I've mentioned).

I think "overrated" would be the word I'd choose.

tony hipchest
09-20-2012, 01:06 AM
But don't forget, Troy "In his prime" was a very new thing in football.

He was looked upon in a way that someone might look at a being who just emerged from an alien spaceship.

He didn't "look" like a football player and he didn't talk like one either.

Troy in his prime WAS a special player but I never saw him as exceptional. Very good, gifted, things like that but not exceptional (mainly for the reasons I've mentioned).

I think "overrated" would be the word I'd choose.

very interesting take.

"underrated" is the word i would chose. sure he is appreciated in his time but i think his great play is often overshadowed by his "uniqueness".

there are very few defensive players in recent times that players and offensive coaches admit having to alter entire gameplans for and struggle to account for said player on every single down.

lawrence taylor, ronnie lott, reggie white, deion sanders come to mind.

coaches have to gameplan around troy just like those listed above. a healthy troy impacts the game before he even steps on the field.

troy has been arguably the best player on a defense that has been to 3 SB (won 2) since he was drafted.

ed reed cant say that and the ravens went to a SB w/o reed and t. dilfer as QB.

Colts Bob Sanders was considered a great safety. he was injury prone. adrian wilson was considered one of the leagues best, but you never hear his name. no teams are scared of either of these guys.

I think troy is a cut above....

Hawaii 5-0
09-21-2012, 12:30 AM
Steelers Plan To Hold Dinged Starters Out Until Week 5

September 20
by The Sports Xchange

The Steelers have a plan when to play all of their injured players and it involves their early bye in the fourth week of the season.

The plan is that none of their questionable players will play until they return for the fifth week, when they resume with a game against Philadelphia Oct. 7 at home. That is when James Harrison, Troy Polamalu, Rashard Mendenhall and one or two others who have been out are most likely to return.

Harrison and Polamalu missed another practice on Thursday and will not play in Oakland Sunday. Harrison has yet to play in a game, either regular season or preseason. This will be the second game that Polamalu misses. Harrison had his knee scoped Aug. 15 and it has not responded as they had hoped. Polamalu came out of the first game with a strained calf.

Mendenhall has gone through full practices the past three weeks as he comes back from a January 1 torn ACL. He has done well and he started to get some contact in practice Wednesday in pads.

Mendenhall promises that when he returns to play he will be the same runner he was before the injury.

"Just this whole process, rehabbing, going through it and taking it day by day," Mendenhall reasoned. "I'm preparing to get back to that level and nothing else. That's what my focus is."

The Steelers also could get their top backup inside linebacker, Stevenson Sylvester, back after the bye. He tore his MCL in practice before the second preseason game and has not played.

The Steelers lost rookie linebacker Sean Spence for the season to a torn ACL in the preseason. That's been an inordinate amount of injuries for the linebackers already in 2012.

"It's the game of football," Sylvester said. "The linebacker position is hard, it's hard to get away from the injuries. This year we got it a little bit but we're making a comeback."

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/steelers_plan_to_hold_dinged_starters_out_until_we ek_5/11768758

teegre
09-21-2012, 02:15 AM
Troy in his prime, and I believe that was in 05 as evidenced by his incredible play during and through the playoffs...maybe a couple years after as well, was simply incredible. He was a game changer. IMHO is loss of speed either due to aging or injuries has magnified his short comings i.e poor angles, risk taking, subpar in coverage. He is not even a top 10 safety in my book if you are talking this year and going forward. I have him after these guys:

Goldson
Earl Thomas
Ed Reed
Adrian Wilson
Charles Woodson
Weddel
Rolle
Griffin
Whitner
Eric Berry

there are degrees of separation but I really think Troy's play has fallen off a cliff. I have never seen a more lost player than how he looked in that SB vs. GB. It was an embarassing performance which I mainly attribute to his health. From late that season till today he looks completely different. Sure, like a heavyweight boxer he still has a killer right cross and can deliver the occasional nice play but he looks past his prime to me. Now Harrison, when he is on the field still looks as good as they come. He tried to play through injuries and you could tell he just wasn't healthy but once he is I anticipate his play to be stellar to be followed by a pretty nice FA contract, just not from us.

Tell me if I am understanding your points correctly.  In all seriousness, this is what I am reading/this is what is coming across... and I want to see if this what you actually intended to say.  [I don't want to put words in your mouth.]  

1. Troy had two good seasons: 04 & 05.  

2.  Troy had bad years in: 06, 07, & 08.  

3.  Alge Crumpler falling on his knee in 09, and his hamstring (or was it a knee) in 10 had little to do with the downswing in his play, because he was already declining (see point #2).  

4.  His only real asset was his speed, and now that he's slower, he is basically ineffective.  

Again, were these your points?

If so... if all if that is true, I think that your list would actually be even LONGER... no?  

[My list: Eric Berry, Ed Reed, Troy... everyone else.]  

teegre
09-21-2012, 02:22 AM
I'd take them "now".

But don't forget, Troy "In his prime" was a very new thing in football.
He was looked upon in a way that someone might look at a being who just emerged from an alien spaceship.
He didn't "look" like a football player and he didn't talk like one either.
He was different.
Because he was so different, he became the "Shiny Object" that attracted everyone's attention and I think a lot of people were awed by him (like seeing the Grand Canyon for the first time) and I think some of that influenced their assessment of him as a player. In other words, he was a unique person so he must be a special player too.

Don't get me wrong -- Troy in his prime WAS a special player but I never saw him as exceptional. Very good, gifted, things like that but not exceptional (mainly for the reasons I've mentioned).

I think "overrated" would be the word I'd choose.


We'll skip over the fact that I disagree: I think he was 100% exceptional... one of the best I've ever seen.  I know you'll never convince me of otherwise, and I'm sure I'll never convince you, either.  

But, I'd like to continue with a... 

Counter-point:  
Could one not say that his "shininess" actually made him exceptional?  QBs "had" to look at him... and account for him... as did O-linemen (whose job it was to locate him on every play).  He affected the game pre-snap more than any other player that I've seen, except for: Lawrence Taylor, Derrick Thomas, and Greg Lloyd.  

FanSince72
09-21-2012, 07:39 AM
We'll skip over the fact that I disagree: I think he was 100% exceptional... one of the best I've ever seen.  I know you'll never convince me of otherwise, and I'm sure I'll never convince you, either.  

But, I'd like to continue with a... 

Counter-point:  
Could one not say that his "shininess" actually made him exceptional?  QBs "had" to look at him... and account for him... as did O-linemen (whose job it was to locate him on every play).  He affected the game pre-snap more than any other player that I've seen, except for: Lawrence Taylor, Derrick Thomas, and Greg Lloyd.  

Once again, I'm not saying that Troy has not done some special things or that he hasn't had an impact on the way the game is played.

All I'm saying is that -- In My Opinion -- he hasn't done anything SO special that he deserves a spot on Mount Rushmore.

The thing I don't get about Steeler fans in general (and I've been one for 40 years) is the reverence displayed for three people: Chuck Noll, Dick LeBeau and now Troy Polamalu.
I don't understand why they seem to be regarded as some sort of Supernatural beings.

Yes, they all deserve accolades and they all deserve to be in the Hall of Fame -- but none deserve sainthood. They're just people who are good at what they do but none are "gifts" to football or to humanity and the idea of putting them on pedestals drives me crazy. It's as if this game wouldn't exist if the three of them didn't.

You know, there's a fine line between "fan" and "Fanatic".

steelfury02
09-21-2012, 09:02 AM
Regardless of him slowing down due to injury or age, the chess match between him and Peyton in Denver in Wk 1, where Peyton had to stop EVERYTHING because he wanted to see if he could call Troy's bluff says it all - every offense respects him enough to locate him, has he gotten some accolades on reputation alone? Sure - all the great ones have. He has had his share of bad games though. If I may say, I think a lot of Steelers fans are just dying for him to make a splash play - he is "overdue" in that regard.

jiminpa
09-21-2012, 09:13 AM
Regardless of him slowing down due to injury or age, the chess match between him and Peyton in Denver in Wk 1, where Peyton had to stop EVERYTHING because he wanted to see if he could call Troy's bluff says it all - every offense respects him enough to locate him, has he gotten some accolades on reputation alone? Sure - all the great ones have. He has had his share of bad games though. If I may say, I think a lot of Steelers fans are just dying for him to make a splash play - he is "overdue" in that regard.One of my many problems with Tomlin as a head coach is his love for splash plays. Our offense under Arians was full of splash plays, but didn't actually do their job--score points and control the football. Last year's defense didn't bother me a bit. They did their job, without any highlight reel moments. The lack of splash plays is why there are so many people who don't appreciate Ike Taylor's coverage skills. They would rather he got blown up half the time as long as he made some interceptions. Personally, I would rather see the team, (Troy and Harrison included), excel at the important things first.

steelfan23
09-21-2012, 09:20 AM
Tell me if I am understanding your points correctly.  In all seriousness, this is what I am reading/this is what is coming across... and I want to see if this what you actually intended to say.  [I don't want to put words in your mouth.]  

1. Troy had two good seasons: 04 & 05.  

2.  Troy had bad years in: 06, 07, & 08.  

3.  Alge Crumpler falling on his knee in 09, and his hamstring (or was it a knee) in 10 had little to do with the downswing in his play, because he was already declining (see point #2).  

4.  His only real asset was his speed, and now that he's slower, he is basically ineffective.  

Again, were these your points?

If so... if all if that is true, I think that your list would actually be even LONGER... no?  

[My list: Eric Berry, Ed Reed, Troy... everyone else.]  

Just for the record:

I don't think Troy has had bad years per se. In fact I would rank him top three safety up until he got hurt before the Super Bowl. In fact wasn't he the D MVP that year? He was exceptional all those years. I think his speed allowed him to get to the spot faster than offense could account for. Especially in the run game. His speed and vertical allowed him to get to some pretty insane INTs as well. Sure he took bad angles and sometimes missed tackles but easily worth it.

Now however, being much slower, he can no longer get by with his athleticism. He is just another guy out there. Hey, maybe he never truly got healthy from that injury. It sure appears that way to me. Seriously, the drop off from a MVP type season to what we got last year and so far this year is dramatic. He obviously should not have rushed back for the SB because he was a liability but we had no one else so I understand. Then with lockout and off the field endeavors maybe he didn't take training as serious. I hope that maybe he just needs the first half of this year to finally get healthy and he can return to his form. Problem there is that he easily looks 5 to 10 lbs overweight (as do Timmons, Woodley) and healthy or not, you can't be elite at that position with added weight.

steelfury02
09-21-2012, 09:37 AM
while I agree the important things need to come before any splashy plays, I'll argue that the teams that win it all find a way to make those happen more often than not

I think for us to bring home #7, the turnovers need to start happening more often, especially towards the last quarter of the season. I believe this team will start relying on the offense more, but having more possessions and shorter fields is key

I don't think the defense will be in 08' or in 10' form for the foreseeable future - if they want to be championship caliber, the splash plays have to happen IMO

steelerchad
09-21-2012, 10:46 AM
One of my many problems with Tomlin as a head coach is his love for splash plays. Our offense under Arians was full of splash plays, but didn't actually do their job--score points and control the football. Last year's defense didn't bother me a bit. They did their job, without any highlight reel moments. The lack of splash plays is why there are so many people who don't appreciate Ike Taylor's coverage skills. They would rather he got blown up half the time as long as he made some interceptions. Personally, I would rather see the team, (Troy and Harrison included), excel at the important things first.

Disagree. Turnovers are key in the NFL. Splash plays are important. Sacks, Fumbles, INT's are the most important things a defense can do. We sucked at forcing TO's last year and it cost us games.

steelerchad
09-21-2012, 10:57 AM
He's made some incredible, big plays for this team. I don't remember one last year, and the team as a whole didn't force TO's last year.
But remember, the INT in the snow against SD. That was the most insane interception I've ever seen. diving across the field and one handing it in the snow. I didn't believe he caught it until the slow mo replay.
The 08 championship pick 6 against Baltimore to seal the SB trip.
The 10 Baltimore strip of Flacco with 2 minutes to go. That play propelled us to another SB. Without it, we would have been on the road as a wildcard.

There are many more, but I think we'll get 1 or 2 more big plays out of him this year. He has a nose for the ball and he's not quite done yet.

Bayz101
09-21-2012, 11:00 AM
He's made some incredible, big plays for this team. I don't remember one last year, and the team as a whole didn't force TO's last year.
But remember, the INT in the snow against SD. That was the most insane interception I've ever seen. diving across the field and one handing it in the snow. I didn't believe he caught it until the slow mo replay.
The 08 championship pick 6 against Baltimore to seal the SB trip.
The 10 Baltimore strip of Flacco with 2 minutes to go. That play propelled us to another SB. Without it, we would have been on the road as a wildcard.

There are many more, but I think we'll get 1 or 2 more big plays out of him this year. He has a nose for the ball and he's not quite done yet.

:plusone:

stb_steeler
09-21-2012, 11:14 AM
To play this game in the positions like Troy an James for as long as they have is a blessing in itself at the level they have played. Believe it or not we all get older!

Goldsteel86
09-21-2012, 05:25 PM
To play this game in the positions like Troy an James for as long as they have is a blessing in itself at the level they have played. Believe it or not we all get older!

Stop it, lets make a deal Troy and James can get older, lets just say you and I will always stay 30 or at the most 35. I agree, the way Troy plays the game this was meant to happen he came in the league in 2003, it seems as if he has been in the league since 1998 when Hines came in. James has always known one way to play, lights out until (or after) the whistle, he has always taken the challenge and when he was younger seemed to prevail. I hate to say it but these might be two positions the Steelers need to address in the 2013 draft, I really don't see a formidable "player in waiting" to replace either, I was really hoping that kid from Florida State (You know the walking Doogie Howser) would have made the team.

Curtain_of_Steel
09-21-2012, 05:45 PM
I do not think they suck like Ike, but I do think we are watsing money for them to play a half season. Each season its a different reason. Right now its 20million riding th ebench.

Harrisons knee shouldve been dealt with long ago and the FO waited and delayed and let th eplayer call the shots. Thats BS

As far as troy goes, watch him in warmups, there is no warming up prior togames, he tosses a football around, rarely stretches, rarely runs with the team. I"m not sayingthis is good or bad,I'm just bringing up the fact that there is no visible running or stretching prior to a game. Yet always is pulling something,

TRH
09-21-2012, 08:09 PM
I do not think they suck like Ike, but I do think we are watsing money for them to play a half season. Each season its a different reason. Right now its 20million riding th ebench.

Harrisons knee shouldve been dealt with long ago and the FO waited and delayed and let th eplayer call the shots. Thats BS

As far as troy goes, watch him in warmups, there is no warming up prior togames, he tosses a football around, rarely stretches, rarely runs with the team. I"m not sayingthis is good or bad,I'm just bringing up the fact that there is no visible running or stretching prior to a game. Yet always is pulling something,

agreed. We'll never even get close to that dollar-figure out of either one of them again. At some point, both team and fans have to admit the obvious, and start moving forward.

Atlanta Dan
09-21-2012, 09:04 PM
The thing I don't get about Steeler fans in general (and I've been one for 40 years) is the reverence displayed for three people: Chuck Noll, Dick LeBeau and now Troy Polamalu.

How many head coaches won 4 Super Bowls?

How many championships (hell - how many division titles) did the Steelers win before Noll arrived? Before Noll arrived the Pirates were the team in Pittsburgh - that changed for good 40 years ago

I know you may say Noll only won anything when he had great talent - but lots of coaches with great talent (Landry and Madden are 2 examples from Noll's era) did not consistently win Super Bowls

There was this quote about the great Yankees manager Casey Stengel

Critics who denigrate him as a manager like to point out that of the four major league teams he ran, three never finished higher than fifth, and one of those never higher than 10th. It doesn't matter. There is a story about a fine poker player who described a better poker player by saying, "When I have the cards, I clean the table. When he has them, he cleans the room." When Stengel had the players, and the resources to get more, he cleaned the room.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1090349/index.htm

When Chuck Noll had the players he cleaned the room - hope that answers your question as to why Noll is revered, if the name of the man who was Steelers coach the year they rose to power and you apparently became a fan does not

Goldsteel86
09-21-2012, 09:12 PM
How many head coaches won 4 Super Bowls?

How many championships (hell - how many division titles) did the Steelers win before Noll arrived? Before Noll arrived the Pirates were the team in Pittsburgh - that changed for good 40 years ago

I know you may say Noll only won anything when he had great talent - but lots of coaches with great talent (Landry and Madden are 2 examples from Noll's era) did not consistently win Super Bowls

There was this quote about the great Yankees manager Casey Stengel

Critics who denigrate him as a manager like to point out that of the four major league teams he ran, three never finished higher than fifth, and one of those never higher than 10th. It doesn't matter. There is a story about a fine poker player who described a better poker player by saying, "When I have the cards, I clean the table. When he has them, he cleans the room." When Stengel had the players, and the resources to get more, he cleaned the room.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1090349/index.htm

When Chuck Noll had the players he cleaned the room - hope that answers your question as to why Noll is revered, if the name of the man who was Steelers coach the year they rose to power and you apparently became a fan does not

This :applaudit: :hatsoff:

teegre
09-21-2012, 10:51 PM
Once again, I'm not saying that Troy has not done some special things or that he hasn't had an impact on the way the game is played.

All I'm saying is that -- In My Opinion -- he hasn't done anything SO special that he deserves a spot on Mount Rushmore.

The thing I don't get about Steeler fans in general (and I've been one for 40 years) is the reverence displayed for three people: Chuck Noll, Dick LeBeau and now Troy Polamalu.
I don't understand why they seem to be regarded as some sort of Supernatural beings.

Yes, they all deserve accolades and they all deserve to be in the Hall of Fame -- but none deserve sainthood. They're just people who are good at what they do but none are "gifts" to football or to humanity and the idea of putting them on pedestals drives me crazy. It's as if this game wouldn't exist if the three of them didn't.

You know, there's a fine line between "fan" and "Fanatic".

Good thing that neither of us is a "fanatic."  

Good thing that neither of us thinks that football wouldn't exist without Troy.  

Good thing that neither of us thinks that football players are essential to the advancement of humanity.  

Good thing that neither of us think that Troy is a saint and/or a supernatural being.

With those hyperboles out of the way, I ask again:  
Could one not say that his "shininess" actually made him exceptional?  

teegre
09-21-2012, 10:55 PM
Hey, maybe he never truly got healthy from that injury. It sure appears that way to me.

Bingo!!!

FanSince72
09-22-2012, 08:29 AM
How many head coaches won 4 Super Bowls?

How many championships (hell - how many division titles) did the Steelers win before Noll arrived? Before Noll arrived the Pirates were the team in Pittsburgh - that changed for good 40 years ago

I know you may say Noll only won anything when he had great talent - but lots of coaches with great talent (Landry and Madden are 2 examples from Noll's era) did not consistently win Super Bowls

There was this quote about the great Yankees manager Casey Stengel

Critics who denigrate him as a manager like to point out that of the four major league teams he ran, three never finished higher than fifth, and one of those never higher than 10th. It doesn't matter. There is a story about a fine poker player who described a better poker player by saying, "When I have the cards, I clean the table. When he has them, he cleans the room." When Stengel had the players, and the resources to get more, he cleaned the room.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1090349/index.htm

When Chuck Noll had the players he cleaned the room - hope that answers your question as to why Noll is revered, if the name of the man who was Steelers coach the year they rose to power and you apparently became a fan does not

Chuck Noll: Won 4 SB's then stayed for another decade that produced nothing.
But the FO couldn't muster the courage to tell him it's time to go because of his "sainthood" and so we instead endured a decade of mediocre football.

Dick LeBeau: A Defensive genius who changed the way football is played but (like Noll) has lost more than a step in the last five years but will likely die on the sideline because once again his "sainthood" makes it impossible to let him go.

Both of these men were revolutionary and both rightfully achieved legendary status. But the fact is that eventually everything comes to an end and everyone loses their edge. But the tendency in this organization is to live in a state of denial and ignore those facts.

Are you suggesting that Noll retired at the top of his game?
Or that LeBeau still has years of innovation left in him?

I think both of them are the greatest things that ever happened to this team.
The problem is that they were both placed on pedestals too high for anyone to reach and no one wanted to be the one to have to climb up there and tell them that maybe it's time to move on.

stb_steeler
09-22-2012, 10:32 AM
Stop it, lets make a deal Troy and James can get older, lets just say you and I will always stay 30 or at the most 35. I agree, the way Troy plays the game this was meant to happen he came in the league in 2003, it seems as if he has been in the league since 1998 when Hines came in. James has always known one way to play, lights out until (or after) the whistle, he has always taken the challenge and when he was younger seemed to prevail. I hate to say it but these might be two positions the Steelers need to address in the 2013 draft, I really don't see a formidable "player in waiting" to replace either, I was really hoping that kid from Florida State (You know the walking Doogie Howser) would have made the team.

I wish i could stay 30....To late for that already passed that mark.:chuckle:
And yes it seems the Steelers keep hanging onto players that they think will produce forever and yes they should draft next year but dont tell them that.

TRH
09-22-2012, 12:25 PM
Chuck Noll: Won 4 SB's then stayed for another decade that produced nothing.
But the FO couldn't muster the courage to tell him it's time to go because of his "sainthood" and so we instead endured a decade of mediocre football.

Dick LeBeau: A Defensive genius who changed the way football is played but (like Noll) has lost more than a step in the last five years but will likely die on the sideline because once again his "sainthood" makes it impossible to let him go.

Both of these men were revolutionary and both rightfully achieved legendary status. But the fact is that eventually everything comes to an end and everyone loses their edge. But the tendency in this organization is to live in a state of denial and ignore those facts.

Are you suggesting that Noll retired at the top of his game?
Or that LeBeau still has years of innovation left in him?

I think both of them are the greatest things that ever happened to this team.
The problem is that they were both placed on pedestals too high for anyone to reach and no one wanted to be the one to have to climb up there and tell them that maybe it's time to move on.


I agree. I"m surprised they had the balls to let Arians go. But you're right for example on LeBeau - no matter what he does, he's untouchable and will stay no matter what the consequences.
I'm afraid of what will happen with Polamalu and Harrison....who also have reached "saint" status with the fans (and rightly so....). But there comes a time..............................

Atlanta Dan
09-22-2012, 12:29 PM
Chuck Noll: Won 4 SB's then stayed for another decade that produced nothing.
But the FO couldn't muster the courage to tell him it's time to go because of his "sainthood" and so we instead endured a decade of mediocre football.

Dick LeBeau: A Defensive genius who changed the way football is played but (like Noll) has lost more than a step in the last five years but will likely die on the sideline because once again his "sainthood" makes it impossible to let him go.

Both of these men were revolutionary and both rightfully achieved legendary status. But the fact is that eventually everything comes to an end and everyone loses their edge. But the tendency in this organization is to live in a state of denial and ignore those facts.

Are you suggesting that Noll retired at the top of his game?
Or that LeBeau still has years of innovation left in him?

I think both of them are the greatest things that ever happened to this team.
The problem is that they were both placed on pedestals too high for anyone to reach and no one wanted to be the one to have to climb up there and tell them that maybe it's time to move on.

I did not say anything about LeBeau

But this is what you asked with regard to Noll

The thing I don't get about Steeler fans in general (and I've been one for 40 years) is the reverence displayed for three people: Chuck Noll, Dick LeBeau and now Troy Polamalu.
I don't understand why they seem to be regarded as some sort of Supernatural beings.

Yes, they all deserve accolades and they all deserve to be in the Hall of Fame -- but none deserve sainthood. They're just people who are good at what they do but none are "gifts" to football or to humanity and the idea of putting them on pedestals drives me crazy. It's as if this game wouldn't exist if the three of them didn't.

You did not ask me whether Noll hung around too long (he did) - you said you did not get why he was revered

If someone is the greatest thing to happen to an organization (you and I agree Chuck Noll was that person for the Steelers) and it is a successful organization (most Lombardis won by any NFL team would seem to meet that standard) then it is no shock that person is revered by the fan base

I do not think anyone is saying Noll was a gift to football or humanity (if you want to go into that area ask some old time Green Bay fans about Saint Vince:chuckle:), just that Noll, probably even more than the Chief (who was revered even though his team was a joke for its first 40 years), is revered for what followed after he arrived in Pittsburgh
:drink:

teegre
09-22-2012, 04:01 PM
I agree. I"m surprised they had the balls to let Arians go. But you're right for example on LeBeau - no matter what he does, he's untouchable and will stay no matter what the consequences.
I'm afraid of what will happen with Polamalu and Harrison....who also have reached "saint" status with the fans (and rightly so....). But there comes a time..............................

They let Hines go.  

They let Franco go.  

They let Woodson go (although, that was about money, and about him not wanting to play FS).  

They let Greg Lloyd go.  They let Joey Porter go.  And, similarly, they'll  let Harrison go after this year.  

If Troy can get healthy, who knows.  If he remains injured, he might go very soon.  

LeBeau had the top ranked defense (in yards & in scoring) last year.  Sure, he lost two big games last year (the second BALT game, and the DENV play-off game), but he also had several players injured (eg Harrison & Woodley only played about three games together).  

After a 12 year SuperBowl drought, Noll left Cowher a team loaded with talent (Lloyd, Woodson, Lake).  Cowher took over... and... took 13 years to win a SuperBowl.  Maybe both Noll & Cowher should have gone sooner... or, maybe it's hard to win SuperBowls.  Regardless, I think most teams would have been happy with either of those coaches.  

Rick5895
09-23-2012, 06:25 AM
One draft mistake cost us from winning a superbowl or 2 in the 80's (not drafting Marino) That said , I don't think we will see the issues of keeping players too long in todays NFL, the reality of the salary cap make that virtually impossible. I think James will be gone after this year, money is needed to resign our WR's and since the NFL is more about Offense now thats where the money will be spent IMO. I think Troy wil get one more year after this one. But even Troy knows he may be nearing the end and I can actually see him retiring within the next couple of years.
As for Saint Lebeau, I have a feeling this will be it for him. Nothing concrete to go on, but I watch his chats with reporters on Steelers.com, he looks tired and I think (just a guess mind you) he realizes Butler may be just what the Steelers D needs to infuse new enthusiasm. Just one guys opinion.
As far as being revered....they damn well should be ..LeBeau, Noll, Polamalu (for todays younger fans who didn't see the great players of the 70's) are all great Steelers. So are a host of others could name but we all know who they are.

Hawaii 5-0
09-25-2012, 07:24 PM
James Harrison Says He Practiced Fully On Tuesday

Tuesday, September 25th, 2012 by Dave Bryan

Earlier today it was reported that Pittsburgh Steelers linebacker James Harrison (knee) was able to practice, but no word was given as to what extent of work he was given.

Harrison removed all of the mystery by taking to Twitter Tuesday afternoon to say that he indeed did practiced fully today, and that he hopes everything goes well on Wednesday.

James Harrison@jharrison9292:

Just finished my first day of full practice, hopefully everything goes well tomorrow!
25 Sep 12

Obviously the key now is to see if the knee handles the Tuesday work and if it swells over the next 24 hours. If Harrison is able to go fully on Wednesday as well, that would be very encouraging news.

The Steelers linebacker had the procedure done on his knee in mid August, but has been unable to practice fully since that time.

The Steelers are on a bye this week, which means that their next game is not until a week from this coming Sunday at home and hopefully that is when Harrison will make his season debut.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/09/james-harrison-says-he-practiced-fully-on-tuesday/

Hawaii 5-0
09-25-2012, 07:28 PM
Report: Troy Polamalu Optimistic He Will Play Against Eagles

Tuesday, September 25th, 2012 by Dave Bryan

The Pittsburgh Steelers are back on the practice field on Tuesday before heading off to the bye week and Gerry Dulac of the Pittsburgh Post Gazette reports via Twitter that both linebacker James Harrison (knee) and safety Troy Polamalu (calf) are getting work in today.

Gerry Dulac@gerrydulac:

James Harrison back on the field today, but Steelers will monitor how his knee reacts to practice. Says Harrison: "Just going day to day."
25 Sep 12

Gerry Dulac@gerrydulac:

Troy Polamalu back on the practice field today, says he's optimistic he will play against the Eagles. He will.
25 Sep 12

The team is not required to release a practice participation report during the bye week so we don't know exactly how much they work that players are really actually getting.

Dulac reports that Harrison said on Tuesday that he is still going day-to-day, while Polamalu said that he he's optimistic that he will play against the Philadelphia Eagles following the bye.

The next injury report will not be released until one week from Wednesday, so it is hard to speculate this far out as to the availability of both players. It is, however, good to hear that both are getting some sort of work in on Tuesday.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/09/report-troy-polamalu-optimistic-he-will-play-against-eagles/