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View Full Version : Defense showing its age, and....


Steelers5895
09-23-2012, 07:39 PM
The young players are non-existant. Timmons actually had a good game until he let the TE release on 3rd and 8 on the last drive.

No pass rush, no ability to stop the run, trailing plays. This defense is bad as I have seen in a while. Foote looks slow, Mundy is 6 nothces below Troy, Carter and Whorilds are a waste, woodley has yet to show up and timmons is average at best.

1-2 when we should be 3-0 going into the bye.

steelfury02
09-23-2012, 08:05 PM
I had us going 2-1, just thought the Denver game was too much to overcome - perfect "welcome back" atmosphere for Manning - plus ya know, he played well in that game

Look at them now, 1-2 as well. Anything can happen.

I wouldn't say the age is the issue - I'd say it is physicality coming off the snap - they all seem 1/2 step behind

I know we have all argued about playing tight man v. 5 - 7 yard cushions - but man, it looked like some of those were 10-12 yard cushions - the young CBs are more of a liability than I can recall

Darkstorm05
09-23-2012, 08:12 PM
The young players are non-existant.

I beg to differ. Mundy was in a ton of replays missing McFadden on his TD run. He also laid in a tackle that damned near decapitated Cortez Allen.

jjpro11
09-23-2012, 11:12 PM
So basically our young guys suck, and our old guys are now too old. Awesome.

tony hipchest
09-23-2012, 11:18 PM
1-2 when we should be 3-0 going into the bye.and we should have won atleast 15 superbowls by now.

other than the 1-2 part, i pretty much disagree with your entire post :noidea:

StainlessStill
09-23-2012, 11:28 PM
One thing I will gurantee: almost ALL of the teams that are sitting 3-0 or 2-1 at this juncture won't even be in the PICTURE when this season is all said and done. Hell, the Bills started undefeated last season and the Giants were playing a "do or die 1 game season" since the mid-way point and won the freakin' Super Bowl.

I'll say one thing. Polamalu and Harrison are straight up BALLING PLAYMAKERS. This defense not only miss's their presence, but also the duo's that go with it. Woodley and Harrison have yet to play together. Troy and Clark have yet to play together.

Harrison to Carter is a laughable DROPOFF and that's an understatement. Troy to Mundy isn't even comparable. That's the front half of our pas-rush and our secondary ball-hawking backfield that's missing All-Pros.

We MUST respond and get healthy. There's no choice.

tanda10506
09-24-2012, 03:48 AM
I agree Stainless that the injuries to Troy and Harrison are huge, but you have to be able to win with injuries when the offense plays so well. They made Palmer look like Rodgers and that's not due to our players, it's LeBeau. There is an argument to be made that we would have won with Harrison and Troy but I'm not so sure. Giving a WR a 6-10 cushion is basically giving him the catch. We've played that style and lost with both Harrison and Polamalu on the field. I still think that with Harrison and Polamalu we can be a top defense, but ONLY if we abandon the big cushion defense, and there's been few signs of LeBeau doing that.

steeltheone
09-24-2012, 05:18 AM
you have to be able to develop young players...Cowhers players will not be around forever!

jb500ex
09-24-2012, 05:47 AM
The young players are non-existant. Timmons actually had a good game until he let the TE release on 3rd and 8 on the last drive.

No pass rush, no ability to stop the run, trailing plays. This defense is bad as I have seen in a while. Foote looks slow, Mundy is 6 nothces below Troy, Carter and Whorilds are a waste, woodley has yet to show up and timmons is average at best.

1-2 when we should be 3-0 going into the bye.

If you think Timmons played a good game you have zero understanding how to play ilb. He was horrible just like he's been for two years now

steelfury02
09-24-2012, 06:01 AM
I wouldn't say horrible, but a lot of fans are getting impatient and I think some of that is justified

IMHO I can only remember maybe a half a dozen games where I said "That is the Timmons I want to keep seeing" - that's not taking all of his assignments into account that just really don't foster the "splash plays"

Secondary concerns > than Timmons concerns at this point

cloppbeast
09-24-2012, 06:56 AM
It looked to me like they missed a bunch of assignments in the secondary.

Edman
09-24-2012, 07:31 AM
More like Defense showing it's scheme when it no longer works. Three weeks in a row we brought it out and it failed miserably.

Blaming the players is easy. But how about shifting some blame over to one certain Defensive Genius who keeps trotting out the same ineffective scheme that the league has long since caught on to?

Timmons and Woodley can look ineffective when they're constantly dropping in coverage.

Our DB's can certainly look bad when they're asked to play yards off receivers and let them catch the ball. Rod Woodson and Deion Sanders in their primes would've like crap yesterday when they aren't allowed to play the receivers and the ball.

Our DL can look bad when they're not allowed to attack and instead go ahead with HURR DURR GAP CONTROL.

Our Defense can look terrible when they're not tasked to play actual Defense.

Steelers5895
09-24-2012, 07:37 AM
The reason I say we could be 3-0 is we had a lead at the half with denver and until the pick 6 had a chance to win. Hippcrist or whatever his name is offers nothing in his posts.

It may be the scheme but I think itmay be a combination of both. Rember the zone blitz scheme was devloped to stop the west coast offense which is shorter pass plays and a lot of run ofter the catch.\

The NFL today is down the field passing so who knows on that, non eof us are coaches.

What I will say is with Troy and Harrison healthy teams still scored on us and now they are older and unhealthy to go with an aging OL, inneffective LBS and a suspect backfield.

They need to make some fixes this bye week.

ricardisimo
09-24-2012, 07:57 AM
This D was missing not one but two DPotYs. We've never been very good without James Harrison. He's not an easy loss to overcome. The good news is he'll be back.

Watching Hampton struggle after all of the pre-season hype about McClendon is a bit infuriating, I must admit.

SteeleReign
09-24-2012, 08:26 AM
Take a look at our drafts over the last few years. This defense has been slowly deteriorating due to poor drafting and under-performing talent. Since 2003, the year Polamalu and Ike were drafted, you could make the case that only ONE impact defender has been drafted - LaMarr Woodley.

The list of poor picks/under-performers?

Ricardo Colclough - 2nd round pick
Bryant McFadden - 2nd round pick (had a couple decent seasons)
Anthony Smith - 2nd round pick
William Gay - 5th rounder (had some moments)
Lawrence Timmons - 1st rounder
Bruce Davis - 3rd round
Ziggy - 1st round
Keenan Lewis - 3rd round
Joe Burnett - 5th round
Jason Worilds - 2nd round
Thaddeus Gibson - 4th round
Crezdon Butler - 5th round
Stevenson Sylvester - 5th round
Cam Heyward - 1st round (not enough playing time yet, to be fair)
Curtis Brown - 3rd round
Cortez Allen - 4th round
Cris Carter - 5th round

So, the $25,000 question is...are we drafting/scouting poorly? Or, are the schemes we are running incapable of stopping today's offenses - regardless of the personnel?

steelfury02
09-24-2012, 08:35 AM
the real kicker is that we have still won a lot of games and I feel like a bigger question is, why does a lot of Steeler Nation feel like if we're going to go down, why not go down swinging? At first glance, it seems as if they are playing not to lose.

No, I'm not calling for Blitzburgh which has been loooong dead - I'm saying in general, why isn't more onus put on each player for taking care of their man - let's play a little tighter in general I say. No need to really label the defense anything except "in progress"

I don't care what the other offense does, I guarantee if they would have played tighter and more aggressive in hitting them off the line, like the Patriots game last season, Carson effing Palmer and his all of a sudden HOF receivers would be a non-factor.

I don't know what goes on in their locker room, but I hope in the next two weeks they find what they need to be what I think they can be. The personnel decisions are a little iffy for me. I'd rather take Hampton out and see what some fast, aggressive guys could do on this line

El-Gonzo Jackson
09-24-2012, 10:04 AM
The Steelers defense has always been based upon pass rush. When there is not enough pressure on the QB, then they have time and our CB's get beat. Missing Harrison concerns me, but not as much as what happens when he is done in a year or maybe less.

Not having another OLB that can rush the passer is hurting us, as is the fact that Cam Heyward should be getting upfield on passing plays and collapsing the pocket.

SteeleReign
09-24-2012, 10:22 AM
The Steelers defense has always been based upon pass rush. When there is not enough pressure on the QB, then they have time and our CB's get beat. Missing Harrison concerns me, but not as much as what happens when he is done in a year or maybe less.

Not having another OLB that can rush the passer is hurting us, as is the fact that Cam Heyward should be getting upfield on passing plays and collapsing the pocket.

:applaudit:

This is the problem. Pitt has gotten by with mediocre DBs for years because of the overwhelming pass rush. Now, they are being exposed as mediocre because the QB has too much time.

Edman
09-24-2012, 11:02 AM
Then if that's the case, then Lebeau isn't as big a defensive genius as we say he is. Like I said, not even Rod Woodson in his prime would've been a help yesterday when he's asked to play five yards off his receiver.

Okay, the Front 7 isn't getting there, why not make adjustments and have the defensive backs play more aggressive to help them out? There are 11 guys on Defense, not 7. So you're telling me we have no trust in our Corners when they were the same group that shut down the Pats last year? We have to keep playing them off the WR's and TE's? Thus opening up even bigger holes in the Defense?

Insanity is attempting the same thing over and over and expecting different* results. Three times the Steelers tried the same shit on defense, they got burned. The Rare Time when they didn't do it (Jets game), they were as stout as ever.

plenewken
09-24-2012, 11:35 AM
Insanity is attempting the same thing over and over and expecting the same results.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
Albert Einstein.

NoFieldFive
09-24-2012, 11:49 AM
Troy and James missing? should not have mattered. The Raiders are not a good team. they got creamed the week before by the Dolphins.

they really need some emotion out there on defense. there is no fire. was at the game and watching them between plays the entire time standing around not too into it. someone needs to be yelling and firing this D up. Keisel tries but it's not that effective

SteeleReign
09-24-2012, 12:16 PM
Then if that's the case, then Lebeau isn't as big a defensive genius as we say he is. Like I said, not even Rod Woodson in his prime would've been a help yesterday when he's asked to play five yards off his receiver.

Okay, the Front 7 isn't getting there, why not make adjustments and have the defensive backs play more aggressive to help them out? There are 11 guys on Defense, not 7. So you're telling me we have no trust in our Corners when they were the same group that shut down the Pats last year? We have to keep playing them off the WR's and TE's? Thus opening up even bigger holes in the Defense?

Insanity is attempting the same thing over and over and expecting different* results. Three times the Steelers tried the same shit on defense, they got burned. The Rare Time when they didn't do it (Jets game), they were as stout as ever.

Not arguing that a scheme change (playing tight to the receivers) is in order. However, if we don't get more pressure on the QB it won't matter. Good QBs will find an open receiver at some point.

Yes, the defense played well against Brady last year, but the reason we won that game had more to do with Arians adjusting to the short passing game rather than the bombs to Wallace on 3rd and short or the maddening bubble screen on 3rd and 15.

NoFieldFive
09-24-2012, 12:23 PM
Not arguing that a scheme change (playing tight to the receivers) is in order. However, if we don't get more pressure on the QB it won't matter. Good QBs will find an open receiver at some point.

Yes, the defense played well against Brady last year, but the reason we won that game had more to do with Arians adjusting to the short passing game rather than the bombs to Wallace on 3rd and short or the maddening bubble screen on 3rd and 15.


beating New England last year also had something to do with using Miller like he should be used. what did he have the first half....11 catches or something? that could be a regular game day stat for him

tony hipchest
09-24-2012, 12:28 PM
Troy and James missing? should not have mattered. The Raiders are not a good team. they got creamed the week before by the Dolphins.

they really need some emotion out there on defense. there is no fire. was at the game and watching them between plays the entire time standing around not too into it. someone needs to be yelling and firing this D up. Keisel tries but it's not that effectivedid keisel even make the trip?

i think that people are discounting cross country road games and how tough they can be, regardless of how bad the opponent may suck.

SteeleReign
09-24-2012, 12:28 PM
beating New England last year also had something to do with using Miller like he should be used. what did he have the first half....11 catches or something? that could be a regular game day stat for him

6 for 76 in the first half & was targeted another 3 or 4 times.

Bayz101
09-24-2012, 12:35 PM
I haven't been impressed with Diesel for years now, and the same goes for Hampton. They we're drafted clear back in the Stewart/Maddox/Batch days. No surprise that they're dropping off.

As for Troy, he can still be playmaker, and he SHOULD still be one of the best SS's in the NFL if he stays healthy. Him and Harrison constantly being injured is KILLING us.

SteeleReign
09-24-2012, 12:53 PM
I haven't been impressed with Diesel for years now, and the same goes for Hampton. They we're drafted clear back in the Stewart/Maddox/Batch days. No surprise that they're dropping off.

As for Troy, he can still be playmaker, and he SHOULD still be one of the best SS's in the NFL if he stays healthy. Him and Harrison constantly being injured is KILLING us.

Agree. But, don't you think it's time for Troy to cut back on all the freelancing?

Bayz101
09-24-2012, 01:05 PM
Agree. But, don't you think it's time for Troy to cut back on all the freelancing?

I think it's too early to tell. He had an off year last year, and suffered through injuries the year before. You never know, he could have a breakout year yet again this year.

STEELAMANIA
09-24-2012, 01:17 PM
Hopefully let the coaches look at the film the next 2 weeks and put in somebody else who can make a difference.....they should put in the 4th rounder and McClendon and Heyward.......Carter cant fight off a single block so they need to put in someone who will like Adrian Robinson. Troy and Harrison and Hampton and Keisel are good leaders but they are nowhere near what they have been before and its time they let go of the reigns and let the youth come in.....I say let Sean Spence transfer to Troys position next year, cut Hampton, Harrison, and Keisel.

Hawaii 5-0
09-26-2012, 01:35 AM
Good news for Steelers

WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 26, 2012
posted by Dale Lolley

It appears that both James Harrison and Troy Polamalu will be back on the field for the Steelers when they return to action against the Philadelphia Eagles.

That's good news for a defense that has been cheesy soft on the road.

There has been some question as to how much Harrison can help this team because of his health.

Remember, this is a guy who started last season at about 50 percent due to two offseason back surgeries.

Harrison on one leg is better than 75 percent of the pass rushers out there.

http://www.observer-reporter.com/or/sidelines/