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View Full Version : It's Scheme, not Talent.


Edman
09-23-2012, 11:11 PM
The Zone Defense just doesn't work anymore. The League has caught up to it.

We shut down the Jets pretty good the week before. In that same game you remember Sanchez looking quite like Palmer and Manning on his opening drives. Suddenly he couldn't do jack worth a crap and he looked like Mark Sanchez. Know why? Because the Steelers were smart enough to realize that hey, our Soft Cushion Zone D isn't working, and maybe we'd better start playing aggressive.

New York didn't score again.

The Problem with the Defense is the ego of one guy by the name of Richard Lebeau. Whenever we trotted out the Classic Zone Defense this season, it was picked apart. But on the occasion where we put that crap to rest, the Defense was solid. Even going back to last season, when we put that Zone D away, the Defense played at a new level. Palmer had it too damn easy. It was basically pitch and catch. The Defense didn't put in any effort to challenge the dude or his receivers at all.

Tom Brady constantly made a mockery of the Zone Defense. We played him more aggressively last season, we shut him down.

This "Sit back in a cushion and hope we fool the QB" crap doesn't fly anymore. It's failed all three times we tried it. It has to go. This Defense isn't going to get it's mojo back by trotting out ***** 5-10 yard cushions.

SteeleReign
09-23-2012, 11:16 PM
The Zone Defense just doesn't work anymore. The League has caught up to it.

We shut down the Jets pretty good the week before. In that same game you remember Sanchez looking quite like Palmer and Manning on his opening drives. Suddenly he couldn't do jack worth a crap and he looked like Mark Sanchez. Know why? Because the Steelers were smart enough to realize that hey, our Soft Cushion Zone D isn't working, and maybe we'd better start playing aggressive.

New York didn't score again.

The Problem with the Defense is the ego of one guy by the name of Richard Lebeau. Whenever we trotted out the Classic Zone Defense this season, it was picked apart. But on the occasion where we put that crap to rest, the Defense was solid. Even going back to last season, when we put that Zone D crap to bed, the Defense played at a new level. Palmer had it too damn easy. It was basically pitch and catch. The Defense didn't put in any effort to challenge the dude or his recievers at all.

Tom Brady constantly made a mockery of the Zone Defense. We played him more aggressively last season, we shut him down.

This "Sit back in a cushion and hope we fool the QB" crap doesn't fly anymore. It's failed all three times we tried it. It has to go.

I don't care if it's man or zone, if you pressure the QB and stop the run, you win more than you lose. We don't have the personnel to get to the QB consistently.

casteeler
09-23-2012, 11:25 PM
Ahhhhhh and those Giant Eagle bag boys the Steelers have employed as CBs don't deserve blame?

Edman
09-23-2012, 11:27 PM
I don't care if it's man or zone, if you pressure the QB and stop the run, you win more than you lose. We don't have the personnel to get to the QB consistently.

The Front 7 put plenty of pressure on Palmer today. The problem is that Raider recievers were constantly running free and he was getting rid of the ball quickly. I can't count the number of times today I saw a Raider catch the ball with no Defender within a few yards of him.

That has been the chief weakness of the Zone Defense, in the past we could get away with it because of Troy and the Front 7. But the Elite QB's could pick it apart, now with no Troy and no top-tier pass rush, it's exposed, but we had plenty of success running an Aggressive D and not bullshit cushions.

SteeleReign
09-23-2012, 11:29 PM
Ahhhhhh and those Giant Eagle bag boys the Steelers have employed as CBs don't deserve blame?

Sure they do. But, how many star CBs have been on this team since Rod Woodson? Our pass rush has always allowed the talent in our secondary to be less than top-notch. Clearly, the issue is absolutely no pressure whatsoever.

The friggin Raiders could have thrown Ken Stabler out there today and won.

SteeleReign
09-23-2012, 11:33 PM
The Front 7 put plenty of pressure on Palmer today. The problem is that Raider recievers were constantly running free and he was getting rid of the ball quickly. I can't count the number of times today I saw a Raider catch the ball with no Defender within a few yards of him.

That has been the chief weakness of the Zone Defense, in the past we could get away with it because of Troy and the Front 7. But the Elite QB's could pick it apart, now with no Troy and no top-tier pass rush, it's exposed, but we had plenty of success running an Aggressive D and not bullshit cushions.

We'll have to agree to disagree in regards to pressure today. I'd also suggest that we may be playing so much zone because our DBs can't cover m2m all day, and without a pass rush, that's what they'd have to do.

Edman
09-23-2012, 11:57 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree in regards to pressure today. I'd also suggest that we may be playing so much zone because our DBs can't cover m2m all day, and without a pass rush, that's what they'd have to do.

So you agree the Steelers should keep going what they're doing when it clearly isn't working, but not do what brought them success.

You could put Rod Woodson in his prime back there and he wouldn't be as effective by having him standing yards off of his receiver.

casteeler
09-24-2012, 12:01 AM
Sure they do. But, how many star CBs have been on this team since Rod Woodson? Our pass rush has always allowed the talent in our secondary to be less than top-notch. Clearly, the issue is absolutely no pressure whatsoever.

The friggin Raiders could have thrown Ken Stabler out there today and won.

The issue is and has been for a couple of years now that the Steelers refuse to address their CB situation." less than top notch" is being kind

GoFor7
09-24-2012, 12:08 AM
We all hear about how "complex" LeBeau's schemes are and that it may take a few years for newly drafted players to come through in his system. When you look throughout the NFL, other team's rookies are able to come in, and while they may not be world-beaters, they make some type of impact. Does anyone feel it's time for LeBeau to simplify things for the younger players?

OX1947
09-24-2012, 12:11 AM
No pressure on the Qb. No big plays, no turnovers. That has been the theme the last year and 3 games. Those 3 qualities are what makes the Steelers defense over the last half century. Oh, and stopping the run too. So 4. Now, lets see, why do we suck now? Harrison out? Ok. Troy out? Ok. Clark was out in both Denver games? Ok. But I just watched all the "best" defenses so far this season get torched all game long. Is it any coincidence that since this mother ****ing commissioner has destroyed football the last 2+ years, that the Steelers have sucked in the one area, EVEN BEFORE THE 70's, had always been good at? I say no.

I swear on my life, if it werent for the Steelers, I would NEVER watch the NFL as long as that mother ****ing piece of shit is commissioner. He has destroyed football, continues to destroy it and will eventually be the seed that ends the NFL as we knew it. These ****ing owners need to do something. Go ask Belichick how he feels? How bout John Fox? When the hell has John Fox ever done what he did this week? He is one of the most mild mannered coaches in the league. Bottom line is, until this ****er is out as commissioner, this league is in major trouble. The Rooney's made sure he got the throne, they need to now go talk to jerry jones, Kraft and all those rich old ****ers and get this ****er out NOW.

I will watch the Steelers forever, but i will NEVER spend one dime on any NFL apparel until that ****er is gone.

BKAnthem
09-24-2012, 12:23 AM
No pressure on the Qb. No big plays, no turnovers. That has been the theme the last year and 3 games. Those 3 qualities are what makes the Steelers defense over the last half century. Oh, and stopping the run too. So 4. Now, lets see, why do we suck now? Harrison out? Ok. Troy out? Ok. Clark was out in both Denver games? Ok. But I just watched all the "best" defenses so far this season get torched all game long. Is it any coincidence that since this mother ****ing commissioner has destroyed football the last 2+ years, that the Steelers have sucked in the one area, EVEN BEFORE THE 70's, had always been good at? I say no.

I swear on my life, if it werent for the Steelers, I would NEVER watch the NFL as long as that mother ****ing piece of shit is commissioner. He has destroyed football, continues to destroy it and will eventually be the seed that ends the NFL as we knew it. These ****ing owners need to do something. Go ask Belichick how he feels? How bout John Fox? When the hell has John Fox ever done what he did this week? He is one of the most mild mannered coaches in the league. Bottom line is, until this ****er is out as commissioner, this league is in major trouble. The Rooney's made sure he got the throne, they need to now go talk to jerry jones, Kraft and all those rich old ****ers and get this ****er out NOW.

I will watch the Steelers forever, but i will NEVER spend one dime on any NFL apparel until that ****er is gone.

The NFL competition committee votes on these rule changes...the commissioner just doesn't unilaterally impose them...it aint just Goodell

OX1947
09-24-2012, 12:28 AM
The NFL competition committee votes on these rule changes...the commissioner just doesn't unilaterally impose them...it aint just Goodell

You mean like congress? It's congress fault, not Bush or Obama or whoever is president?

tanda10506
09-24-2012, 03:40 AM
I agree it's the scheme. Man coverage worked vs the Jets and it worked when we used it last year (Pats game for example) yet we keep playing this HUGE cushion BS. When we played man vs the Jets they were debilitated, and the Raiders would have been too if we played man against them. We don't get the pass rush to sit back in the zone anymore, plus with the rule changes that's not a good idea anyway. On top of that we don't stop the run. We will lose to the majority of the teams on our schedule IF we play the big cushion defense against them. The talent isn't what it was in 2008-2010, but they still can be a good defense if they play the right style of pass coverage, they showed us that just last week. Unfortunately I think LeBeau either can't/isn't understanding that the league has long passed up the big cushion zone defense or he's already hung it up and isn't going to make any changes.

I never thought LeBeau would become a hinderance, he might be the best D coordinator ever, but it looks like it's time for him to retire. The one argument that can be made in his favor is that he has always based his plays around the pass rush and now our pass rush is mediocre AT BEST, but even then it doesn't excuse the HUGE cushions. The run defense is more on the players IMO, mainly due to Hood and old Hampton/McClendon on the line instead of Smith and young Hampton. Plus Foote is being used more in coverage due to the new passing style offenses. I think some of us, especially me, took for granted how excellent Hampton (younger) and Farrior were against the run, total beasts.

Steeldude
09-24-2012, 03:49 AM
The Zone Defense just doesn't work anymore. The League has caught up to it.


True, but I don't think the talent is all there either. I haven't been impressed with Timmons or Hood yet. I would not say they are bad players, but they don't seem to be living up to what was expected, at least not yet.

SteeleReign
09-24-2012, 08:27 AM
So you agree the Steelers should keep going what they're doing when it clearly isn't working, but not do what brought them success.

You could put Rod Woodson in his prime back there and he wouldn't be as effective by having him standing yards off of his receiver.

I'm not saying that the scheme isn't part of the problem. Maybe, maybe not. What I am saying is that we don't have the personnel to play bump and run man coverage either. If we don't generate more pass rush our DBs will get torched.

IMHO the issue up front (and the secondary for that matter) is personnel more than scheme. Poor drafting, poor scouting.

TRH
09-24-2012, 08:31 AM
All that i know is that this "scheme" is ABSOLUTELY not stopping the pass........both scheme and personnel both. And its only going to get worse from here.

There's no question that a change is in order. One is a different look (which we can do).
The other change we need is personnel. That one's much harder. We're going to have to do it through the draft and low-priced free agents that we will give a chance too. That one's going to take a lot of time.

SteeleReign
09-24-2012, 08:36 AM
All that i know is that this "scheme" is ABSOLUTELY not stopping the pass........both scheme and personnel both. And its only going to get worse fromTwpo here.

There's no question that a change is in order. One is a different look (which we can do).
The other change we need is personnel. That one's much harder. We're going to have to do it through the draft and low-priced free agents that we will give a chance too. That one's going to take a lot of time.

All true. But, why not simplify the scheme a bit and get guys like McLendon, Heyward, and Brandon Johnson on the field? If they can get that push we are missing, then maybe the secondary will suffice..for now.

ricardisimo
09-24-2012, 09:00 AM
So, three games into this season, the NFL has "caught up" to the system that produced the #1 D last year? Right.

No scheme that is based around a healthy Harrison and Polamalu works when, you know, they're not healthy. :noidea:

Edman
09-24-2012, 09:04 AM
All that i know is that this "scheme" is ABSOLUTELY not stopping the pass........both scheme and personnel both. And its only going to get worse from here.

Of course it isn't when the scheme specifically has our corners playing off of receivers. You may as well put up a big flashing neon sign that says "THROW HERE!"

Yeah, it's only going to keep getting worse when we keep doing it.

SteeleReign
09-24-2012, 09:11 AM
So, three games into this season, the NFL has "caught up" to the system that produced the #1 D last year? Right.

No scheme that is based around a healthy Harrison and Polamalu works when, you know, they're not healthy. :noidea:

I don't think it's all scheme, but last year's #1 defense was mostly smoke & mirrors. The soft schedule against mediocre (or worse) QBs led to the inflated defensive ranking. They couldn't produce a pass rush last year either, and one of the worst seasons in NFL history in forced turnovers.

maddog78
09-24-2012, 09:27 AM
He also insists on graybeards Keisel and Hampton when they are finished. Heyward and Hood and McClendon should be playing and shooting gaps, not standing up playing read/react and getting their knees taken out.

defence
09-24-2012, 09:38 AM
The Steelers don't have the corners to play on the line bump and run. It may work against some teams; but i can't see those 2 lining up on every play on the opposing receiver. it will be Denver all over again; this time every play. Now I do feel Lebau has to change it up. The Raiders in the second half looked like a number 1 offence. What were they like 6 for 6 on third downs. Obviously they adjusted; and Lebau; well let's leave it at that.

I've read many posts on here and you guys are spot on on most of your stuff. But promoting Butler; nah. I think Tomlin has to put his print on this team. He inherited all this from Cowher. I really would like to see what system he would run. I know we could debate all day about the 3 4 vs 4 3. But i honestly wish they would go with the 4 3. I look at the Giants d line; man they come with 4 guys only; and boy they get after the qb. The Steelers schemes seem to have been figured out. Is it the players; the coaching?? I think a little of both. Let's just hope we can turn it around and try to stay positive; I know hard to do after that crap we saw yesterday. :tt:

Steelerfreak58
09-24-2012, 10:03 AM
The offense put up 31 points they did there job. The Defense did not. I think the WHOLE defense as a unit did not do there job.

The team isn't adjusting well at halftime. It happened in Denver and it happened at Oakland. Up 10 points going into the 4th and the D shit itself.

drizze99
09-24-2012, 10:33 AM
So, three games into this season, the NFL has "caught up" to the system that produced the #1 D last year? Right.

No scheme that is based around a healthy Harrison and Polamalu works when, you know, they're not healthy. :noidea:

That #1 D last year got torched by a guy who pretends to be an NFL QB. 447yds... thats what a Tebow led offense put on this #1 D. If that isn't embarrassing to every Steelers fan in the world, I don't know what is....

Sorry, but I am tired of this "Zone D" because it's soft. Manning went no huddle this year and torched LeBeau. Palmer didn't do Jack Schitt versus this defense at one point in his career but yesterday he made them look silly. It was like taking candy from a baby. He just took what the D gave him ALL DAY LONG and when your DB's are giving 7-10yd cushions mixed with a bunch of soft spots in the D, it becomes easy pickings. How many routes from the opposing WRs do we actually disrupt in the first 5 yds contact is allowed? I am guessing that number is a VERY LOW percentage, if anything at all.

plenewken
09-24-2012, 10:45 AM
I don't think it's all scheme, but last year's #1 defense was mostly smoke & mirrors. The soft schedule against mediocre (or worse) QBs led to the inflated defensive ranking. They couldn't produce a pass rush last year either, and one of the worst seasons in NFL history in forced turnovers.

:applaudit::applaudit::applaudit:

The Steelers were the most overrated D last year and it just imploded in the first playoff game against a rookie QB.

steelfury02
09-24-2012, 10:48 AM
the only thing I have to add is that things can only go one direction from here

SteeleReign
09-24-2012, 10:59 AM
the only thing I have to add is that things can only go one direction from here

I wish that were true. Unfortunately, this season could get worse. But, some slight scheme changes and a few personnel changes could inject some life back into this D.

That would be my "beer mug is half-full outlook." :drink:

steelfury02
09-24-2012, 11:02 AM
it terms of wins and losses, yea it could get worse unfortunately - I just hope we as fans dont have to get in the mode of "all well, at least we are seeing what youngin A, B, and C can do" - that will not be a happy situation.

Nightmare scenario - injury to playmaker on offense and/or Troy and James coming back and not much changes. You can bet your arse a few more vets won't be coming back at this rate, and that's not counting Casey Hampton

SteeleReign
09-24-2012, 11:12 AM
it terms of wins and losses, yea it could get worse unfortunately - I just hope we as fans dont have to get in the mode of "all well, at least we are seeing what youngin A, B, and C can do" - that will not be a happy situation.

Nightmare scenario - injury to playmaker on offense and/or Troy and James coming back and not much changes. You can bet your arse a few more vets won't be coming back at this rate, and that's not counting Casey Hampton

No doubt. There's no silver lining when you lose. That mentality is what keeps teams like Clevelanatti in a constant state of crap.

Edman
09-24-2012, 12:37 PM
The Steelers don't have the corners to play on the line bump and run.

The Patriots game last year and 2nd Half against the Jets proves you wrong.

These corners can't play B&R, so we'll just have them stand 5-10 yards off of receivers! Have them stand there and let receivers run free and make the catch! That'll certainly work and they'll realize their potential that way!

STEELAMANIA
09-24-2012, 02:39 PM
With no pass rush, it doesnt matter if they played man or zone......

FrancoLambert
09-24-2012, 05:49 PM
It's definitely both, not one or the other.

Edman
09-24-2012, 06:06 PM
It's definitely both, not one or the other.


I agree. Ryan Mundy will suck no matter what scheme he plays.

But when you have talented players like Hood, Timmons, Woodley, and Heyward who are not performing well to their fullest extent, you have to question the scheme.

The Offense for the past several years have been mediocre, would you say Ben Roethlisberger, YMC, Heath Miller are bad players? No. The Scheme is what has been holding them back. Now that we have a competent OC who is running an offense that maximizes their talents, the Offense is playing at a level that we haven't seen them perform before.

It's Lebeau's responsibility to to adjust his scheme to fit the talent of his players. Hood and Heyward are a different breed of Linemen from the likes of Aaron Smith and Kimo Von Oelhoffen. They are athletes that can terrorize Offenses when have been turned loose, instead we have them standing around titty-fighting with linemen to compensate for an ineffective and aging Casey Hampton in a tired and pathetic scheme that has continually failed since the onset of 2011. It's a classic case of square peg, round hole.

Steelerfreak58
09-24-2012, 07:20 PM
The Offense production makes me giddy like a little kid come Christmas but then our Defense steps on the field and some ****ing Grinch comes and smashes all the toys....

Its a cruel twist of fate....

****ing Steelers....

tanda10506
09-24-2012, 07:55 PM
It's definitely both, not one or the other.

Is it really though? The same guys shut down the Jets playing man, they shut down the SB bound Pats last year playing man without Harrison and Farrior. This talent has shown that it's capable if used correctly. It won't be like 2008 or 2010 again, not with who we have now and not with the way the game has changed, but so far they beat good teams when playing the right scheme. On the contrary, we've came close to losing to some scrub teams, and have been embarrassed by some good teams while playing the big cushion defense, even with all our starters on defense.


With no pass rush, it doesnt matter if they played man or zone......

Right now the opposing offense has a player open almost instantaneously due to the 7-10 yard cushions. This is why we see quick passes beating us so much. If the QB has to wait a few seconds to see which WR's are able to beat their guy (who's playing man coverage) then maybe our guys will be able to get to the QB instead of watching the ball go over their heads the second after it's snapped.

FanSince72
09-24-2012, 08:14 PM
The Front 7 put plenty of pressure on Palmer today. The problem is that Raider recievers were constantly running free and he was getting rid of the ball quickly. I can't count the number of times today I saw a Raider catch the ball with no Defender within a few yards of him.

That has been the chief weakness of the Zone Defense, in the past we could get away with it because of Troy and the Front 7. But the Elite QB's could pick it apart, now with no Troy and no top-tier pass rush, it's exposed, but we had plenty of success running an Aggressive D and not bullshit cushions.

BINGO!

And it wasn't just against the Raiders, it's been happening for the last few seasons.

Of course it could NEVER have anything to do with LeBeau, so it must be that Troy is out, or Harrison is out, or Hampton is too fat, or Hood hasn't "developed" yet and blah, blah, blah.

The simplest answer is usually the correct one and to me the simplest answer here is that LeBeau's best days are behind him and he's been mailing it in for quite a while.
It's time to stop worshiping him and start looking for his replacement.

I think a fifty-year career in the NFL is a pretty good run for anybody.
He may once have been a genius but even genius gets old.

It's time to get rid of this "One Size Fits All" defense and start game planning on a team by team basis and like it or not, a 75-year-old man simply doesn't have the horses for that kind of commitment - no matter how much golf he plays.

Edman
09-24-2012, 09:31 PM
BINGO!

And it wasn't just against the Raiders, it's been happening for the last few seasons.

Of course it could NEVER have anything to do with LeBeau, so it must be that Troy is out, or Harrison is out, or Hampton is too fat, or Hood hasn't "developed" yet and blah, blah, blah.

The simplest answer is usually the correct one and to me the simplest answer here is that LeBeau's best days are behind him and he's been mailing it in for quite a while.
It's time to stop worshiping him and start looking for his replacement.

I think a fifty-year career in the NFL is a pretty good run for anybody.
He may once have been a genius but even genius gets old.

It's time to get rid of this "One Size Fits All" defense and start game planning on a team by team basis and like it or not, a 75-year-old man simply doesn't have the horses for that kind of commitment - no matter how much golf he plays.

This Defense is not a lost cause. It's proven it can get the job done, when Lebeau's **** Zone Defense is put on the shelf. This Season after three games...

Steelers D in the Zone Defense: 68 Points surrendered.

Steelers D in Aggressive Man Defense: 0 Points surrendered.

The Zone Defense is of course, supposed to stop the big play, well, guess what. NFL Offenses don't care about the big play. They're more than happy to go short and medium and they cruise move right down the field. Manning Tore it up, Palmer tore it up, and if the Steelers didn't adjust against New York, Dirty Sanchez was ready to tear it a new one too. He was nigh-unstoppable in the First Quarter of the Jet game.

tony hipchest
09-24-2012, 10:08 PM
The Zone Defense just doesn't work anymore. The League has caught up to it.



.its working just fine in the desert.

SteelersRush
09-24-2012, 10:28 PM
Anybody notice the Seahawks running a 3-4? 8 sacks in the 1st half. What was that about "scheme" not working? Coaches coach and players play damn it. I rarely post as you will notice but all this doom and gloom has got me off the sidelines. We'll be fine with the return of Poly and the Silverback. :tt03:

maddog78
09-24-2012, 10:52 PM
Anybody notice the Seahawks running a 3-4? 8 sacks in the 1st half. What was that about "scheme" not working? Coaches coach and players play damn it. I rarely post as you will notice but all this doom and gloom has got me off the sidelines. We'll be fine with the return of Poly and the Silverback. :tt03:

Do you understand the difference between a 2-gap read/react 3-4 and an attacking, 1-gap 3-4? Do you see our DBs smothering WRs at the LOS like Seattle's?

Riddle_Of_Steel
09-25-2012, 02:25 AM
No pressure on the Qb. No big plays, no turnovers. That has been the theme the last year and 3 games. Those 3 qualities are what makes the Steelers defense over the last half century. Oh, and stopping the run too. So 4. Now, lets see, why do we suck now? Harrison out? Ok. Troy out? Ok. Clark was out in both Denver games? Ok. But I just watched all the "best" defenses so far this season get torched all game long. Is it any coincidence that since this mother ****ing commissioner has destroyed football the last 2+ years, that the Steelers have sucked in the one area, EVEN BEFORE THE 70's, had always been good at? I say no.

I swear on my life, if it werent for the Steelers, I would NEVER watch the NFL as long as that mother ****ing piece of shit is commissioner. He has destroyed football, continues to destroy it and will eventually be the seed that ends the NFL as we knew it. These ****ing owners need to do something. Go ask Belichick how he feels? How bout John Fox? When the hell has John Fox ever done what he did this week? He is one of the most mild mannered coaches in the league. Bottom line is, until this ****er is out as commissioner, this league is in major trouble. The Rooney's made sure he got the throne, they need to now go talk to jerry jones, Kraft and all those rich old ****ers and get this ****er out NOW.

I will watch the Steelers forever, but i will NEVER spend one dime on any NFL apparel until that ****er is gone.



Take a breath, shoot some thorazine, whatever, man.

The Commish is NOT the problem-- the players are.

It's the same unionized, sense of entitlement that is ruining everything else in our society.

A lot of those big names from the 70's, 80's, and 90's are now aging out, and totally broke from spending their bling on coke, *****s, and Escalades for their teenage girlfriends the last couple decades. And they are developing neurological problems from all the bone-jarring hits they take.

Now they have taken to suing the NFL. DO you have any idea how many pending lawsuits for concussions the NFL has on its plate from former players? They were deceived and didn't know that ramming their head against another 300-lb man could cause health problems later in life? Really?

Playing in the NFL is a one-shooter roll on the wheel. You have this one-in-a-million chance to score some big $$$$ and retire, knowing the risk of bodily injury. Hence the huge payoff.

Smart people put that away to retire on and take care of them for the rest of their lives. The thugs buy lamborghini's, get drunk in them, and then run over a bystander, and finally, sue their former employer for another handout a couple decades later.

The NFL is answering the demand for a safer game. If parents don't let their kids play, football is done.

Unfortunately, the NFL is turning in record profits the last few years, it is safer, and draws in more fair-weather viewers. The "new NFL" is here to stay, as much as it makes the "old foggies" like you and I, who saw how it was "meant to be played", want to vommit.

Goodell is not the problem.

tanda10506
09-25-2012, 02:58 AM
its working just fine in the desert.

Yes it is. It's not that the zone D is totally dead, but the style that we play it is. Big cushions are a loss waiting to happen now days.

Edman
09-25-2012, 06:30 AM
B-But Seattle and Arizona is running it fine!

Yeah, they're running it fine because they're not having their D-Linemen titty fight and not having their corners stand 7-10 off of receivers. They're attacking, not reacting like our Defense is.

That still doesn't excuse the fact that whenever we sit back in a zone, we've been continually torched, but when we play aggressive, we shut teams down. 24 and 34 points given up in two weeks playing the Cushy Zone says it all. Our way isn't working. Troy and Harrison coming back isn't going to magically fix it. Troy played in Denver and the Defense still got gashed. Lebeau Apologists seem to forget that fact.

ricardisimo
09-25-2012, 07:01 AM
Actually, Troy and Harrison coming back will magically fix it. That's not to say that the plan shouldn't be tweaked for the long run, but one should never doubt what those two can do when healthy.

SteelersRush
09-25-2012, 07:28 AM
Default Re: It's Scheme, not Talent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelersRush View Post
Anybody notice the Seahawks running a 3-4? 8 sacks in the 1st half. What was that about "scheme" not working? Coaches coach and players play damn it. I rarely post as you will notice but all this doom and gloom has got me off the sidelines. We'll be fine with the return of Poly and the Silverback.
Do you understand the difference between a 2-gap read/react 3-4 and an attacking, 1-gap 3-4? Do you see our DBs smothering WRs at the LOS like Seattle's?


Yep. Seattle was able to flat out attack because the packers have no run game. Therefore the DL didn't have to pay any attention to gap control. The ball was in the air 90% of the time. The last time I saw our DB's smother WR's was the Patriots game last year. But I don't think Taylor or Lewis are as good as Seattles corners when it comes to man to man coverage. Hell those guys were playing Mel Blount style with the Packers WR's. Totally man handled them at the LOS.

Stairway to 7
09-25-2012, 07:29 AM
It's not the scheme, the d-line gets no push, LW is the only pass rush threat and the secondary is poor. The talent just isn't there any more.

Smith GONE Keisel DECLINING Hampton WASHED UP Harrison DECLINING Polamalu DECLINING....

Stairway to 7
09-25-2012, 07:31 AM
True, but I don't think the talent is all there either. I haven't been impressed with Timmons or Hood yet. I would not say they are bad players, but they don't seem to be living up to what was expected, at least not yet.


Bingo, Timmons and Hood do nothing.

SteelersRush
09-25-2012, 07:32 AM
[QUOTE=SteelersRush;1032930]Default Re: It's Scheme, not Talent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelersRush View Post
Anybody notice the Seahawks running a 3-4? 8 sacks in the 1st half. What was that about "scheme" not working? Coaches coach and players play damn it. I rarely post as you will notice but all this doom and gloom has got me off the sidelines. We'll be fine with the return of Poly and the Silverback.
Do you understand the difference between a 2-gap read/react 3-4 and an attacking, 1-gap 3-4? Do you see our DBs smothering WRs at the LOS like Seattle's?


Yep. Seattle was able to flat out attack because the packers have no run game. Therefore the DL didn't have to pay any attention to gap control. The ball was in the air 90% of the time. The last time I saw our DB's smother WR's was the Patriots game last year. But I don't think Taylor or Lewis are as good as Seattles corners when it comes to man to man coverage. Hell those guys were playing Mel Blount style with the Packers WR's. Totally man handled them at the LOS.

Edman
09-25-2012, 10:20 AM
Bingo, Timmons and Hood do nothing.

Of course Hood does nothing. That's pretty much what he's been asked to do. To stand there and hand fight with linemen, so the Backers can make the plays, not dominate the line of scrimmage. I don't know how long you've been watching the Steelers, but that's been a staple of Lebeau Defenses for years.

It's a tired, obsolete, dinosaur scheme that is worst of all unfitting for our personnel.

OX1947
09-25-2012, 11:00 AM
Take a breath, shoot some thorazine, whatever, man.

The Commish is NOT the problem-- the players are.

It's the same unionized, sense of entitlement that is ruining everything else in our society.

A lot of those big names from the 70's, 80's, and 90's are now aging out, and totally broke from spending their bling on coke, *****s, and Escalades for their teenage girlfriends the last couple decades. And they are developing neurological problems from all the bone-jarring hits they take.

Now they have taken to suing the NFL. DO you have any idea how many pending lawsuits for concussions the NFL has on its plate from former players? They were deceived and didn't know that ramming their head against another 300-lb man could cause health problems later in life? Really?

Playing in the NFL is a one-shooter roll on the wheel. You have this one-in-a-million chance to score some big $$$$ and retire, knowing the risk of bodily injury. Hence the huge payoff.

Smart people put that away to retire on and take care of them for the rest of their lives. The thugs buy lamborghini's, get drunk in them, and then run over a bystander, and finally, sue their former employer for another handout a couple decades later.

The NFL is answering the demand for a safer game. If parents don't let their kids play, football is done.

Unfortunately, the NFL is turning in record profits the last few years, it is safer, and draws in more fair-weather viewers. The "new NFL" is here to stay, as much as it makes the "old foggies" like you and I, who saw how it was "meant to be played", want to vommit.

Goodell is not the problem.

I'm 34 years old sally, I am not an old foggie, whatever that lame ass word means. You lost your entire argument with "Goodell is not the problem". Goodell is a tumor that will continue to grow. And if you want two hand touch football, then you can go watch that crap with goodell and all the brainwashed slaps.

Maybe people like you can go govern MMA and Boxing too so that they dont punch each other in the face, only on the shoulder so they do not get brain damage.

steelfury02
09-25-2012, 11:22 AM
First of all, calling someone Sally is hilarious

Second of all, whoever came on here Sunday night and said something like "Oh yea, let's keep going back to the gap control DERP A' DERP," I salute you

This defense has "let's just stop the nosebleed and mitigate the damage" written all over it. Nothing aggressive about it and frankly, that is what is needed, I don't care what the scheme or who the talent is.

Edman
09-25-2012, 02:28 PM
First of all, calling someone Sally is hilarious

Second of all, whoever came on here Sunday night and said something like "Oh yea, let's keep going back to the gap control DERP A' DERP," I salute you

This defense has "let's just stop the nosebleed and mitigate the damage" written all over it. Nothing aggressive about it and frankly, that is what is needed, I don't care what the scheme or who the talent is.

Our DL can look bad when they're not allowed to attack and instead go ahead with HURR DURR GAP CONTROL.

Is this it? :chuckle:

steelfury02
09-25-2012, 03:19 PM
haha, YES

Steeldude
09-26-2012, 08:55 AM
So, three games into this season, the NFL has "caught up" to the system that produced the #1 D last year? Right.

No scheme that is based around a healthy Harrison and Polamalu works when, you know, they're not healthy. :noidea:

3 games? This has been going on for awhile. Don't let stats from last year fool you.

The scheme isn't based around any two players. It may seem like that because they are pretty much the only two players who give full effort in each game.

Didn't Clark recently say the defense is predictable?

Edman
09-26-2012, 09:41 AM
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/on-the-steelers-clark-were-too-predictable-654864/#ixzz27YcDXYJD

"We're Too Predictable".

TRANSLATION: SHELVE THE ZONE CUSHION DEFENSE.

GoFor7
09-26-2012, 10:32 AM
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/on-the-steelers-clark-were-too-predictable-654864/#ixzz27YcDXYJD

"We're Too Predictable".

TRANSLATION: SHELVE THE ZONE CUSHION DEFENSE.

NO! THE OTHER TEAM'S QB WILL EVENTUALLY MAKE A MISTAKE!!!!!1111!!11111!!!one!!!111!!!!

:shout: FIRE SOMEBODY!

Edman
09-26-2012, 12:39 PM
More Evidence. It's time for LeBeau and Mitchell to take a hike.



“I got to the quarterback on one play, but the coaches told me that we are a gap team and we don’t need a Superman,” Ta’amu said

That’s definitely a change from the norm for Ta’amu. He’s accustomed to using his quickness and power — more than his size — to his advantage.

Haley still recalls a series of plays from Ta’amu during his senior year in high school that were stunning.

“The first one he made a stop on the opposite side of the field for no gain,” Haley said. “The next play, he sacked the quarterback about 10 yards back, and the third play he ran down their running back 35 yards down the field.”

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=68&f=1897&t=9404756

A thread demonstrating our asinine defensive coaching. We have young athletes at DL but we want them to be standing sacks of shit, and we bench them when they produce for ineffective veterans. No wonder our Defense is dropping off a cliff. The track record after three games in 2012 is proof in the pudding. Lebeau Apologists will say the players suck, when it fact it's Lebeau that refuses to adjust, and we're seeing the fruits of neutering our Defensive Talent for a scheme that has failed mightily contributing to two bad losses.

It worked in the past, but guess what? It's not the past. It's the present, and it's not working in the present. It needs a change.

Apologists said the same garbage for the Arians Offense, the players aren't executing! Todd Haley comes in and has this offense producing at astounding new levels, and it's not even at full strength yet. Ben is on pace for an MVP campaign, Heath Miller is having a Pro Bowl Season, and the O-Line has shown great improvement. The fact is Arians is a terrible OC.

Hawaii 5-0
09-26-2012, 02:55 PM
Is the #Steelers' defense too predictable?

Ed Bouchette

Safety Ryan Clark yesterday acknowledged that they’ve been predictable for seven years, but he said that’s not been a bad thing. He was asked yesterday if the defense needs to evolve as offenses evolve.

“Why? Check our stats. We’re talking about the last seven years. I can see if we were terrible last year or the year before. Last I checked, we were 12-4 the last two years and the defense has been pretty darn good.

“So I don’t think the evolution of the offense has changed dramatically from 2011 to 2012.”

He’s right. It’s like 2004. Third and one for the Steelers. The defense knew Jerome Bettis was going to get the ball. It was so predictable. But they couldn’t stop him.

http://sulia.com/channel/pittsburgh-steelers/f/94c1bb96-a666-40a3-9626-da7080b5b7a0/?source=twitter

Edman
09-26-2012, 07:44 PM
Well guess what, Clark. It's not "The Past Seven Years". The time is now, and right now the Steelers Defense is ****ing awful.

Perhaps it's time to ship him out too.

steelfury02
09-27-2012, 10:13 AM
no, please keep Clark, he has been a shiny spot for this defense lately

but, he puts a little too much stock into last season's 12-4 record IMO - the bottom line is results, and I'd rather hear him say, we're a much different defense when we have everyone healthy - THAT has been true

Now? Just don't think any one Vet returning is the cure right now. They just have the look of being a half a step too slow

TheDude
09-27-2012, 10:21 AM
talked about this, at great length, on the last podcast....the "schemes" arent fooling anyone.

We're not seeing blitzers coming free...and with respect to the constant 8 yard cushion being given by our CBs :banging:

ricardisimo
09-27-2012, 01:28 PM
3 games? This has been going on for awhile. Don't let stats from last year fool you.

The scheme isn't based around any two players. It may seem like that because they are pretty much the only two players who give full effort in each game.

Didn't Clark recently say the defense is predictable?
Yes, he did, and he stated the obvious: "We're predictable... predictably great, year-in and year-out." And he's right. And please don't give me this "paper defense" non-sense. Numbers can be misleading for a while, but after 16 games you have a pretty accurate picture of how good or bad a defense is. After eight years the picture is crystal clear: Dick Lebeau knows what he's doing.

OX1947
09-27-2012, 01:39 PM
They need to all be like David Caruso in JADE!

steelfury02
09-27-2012, 03:24 PM
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/27452038.jpg

Curtain_of_Steel
09-27-2012, 03:33 PM
Our only talent is Woodley and he gets double teamed. Or they have an extra blocker waiting for him to get through to pick him up. Our LB's need to stay back becuase our CORNERS Fing suck, including the great shut don CB Ike Taylor. All this leads to no pass rush again for the 2nd year.

Edman
09-27-2012, 03:41 PM
Our only talent is Woodley and he gets double teamed. Or they have an extra blocker waiting for him to get through to pick him up. Our LB's need to stay back becuase our CORNERS Fing suck, including the great shut don CB Ike Taylor. All this leads to no pass rush again for the 2nd year.

LB's "staying back" opened up the middle of the field.

Any corner can look terrible when he's constantly asked to give receivers 10 yard cushions. We took away the deep ball, but the Raiders were more than happy to go underneath and middle. Just as Denver was.

OX1947
09-27-2012, 05:27 PM
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/27452038.jpg

hahahahahahhahahahhahahhahahhahahha, money!!!!

Riddle_Of_Steel
09-27-2012, 05:59 PM
I'm 34 years old sally, I am not an old foggie, whatever that lame ass word means.

Wow-- somebody has anger issues, not to mention denials about his age....

"Old foggie" refers to those of us that have been around long enough to know better. 34 is probably older than a majority of the people posting on internet forums, not to mention the guys playing the sport on the field.

I am sorry if your masculinity was challenged by me caling you "old", but so you know where I am coming from-- I turn 35 in November.

You lost your entire argument with "Goodell is not the problem". Goodell is a tumor that will continue to grow.

So what you are saying...is that you want to rant and rave like a fxxking 5 year old and not listen to anybody else who tries to make things easier for your simple mind to comprehend. I got ya.

Somebody already pointed out to you, that Goodell is not single-handedly changing the rules of the game-- there is a committee that does that. But don't let facts get in the way of your willful ignorance, Twinkie.

Your dog got run over in the street? Goodell's fault.

You went bankrupt? Goodell's fault.

Wife left you? Goodell's fault.

And if you want two hand touch football, then you can go watch that crap with goodell and all the brainwashed slaps.

"Brainwashed slaps"? Wow, not only are you totally ignorant, but you are as about as articulate as the average Klingon, and obviously failed the reading comprehension portion of the SAT. You are the pride of Appalachia, for sure....

I quite clearly stated that I am NOT a fan of all the new rules changes. You seem to have a problem discerning the difference between 'stating the facts' and 'agreeing with the facts'.

Maybe people like you can go govern MMA and Boxing too so that they dont punch each other in the face, only on the shoulder so they do not get brain damage.

Again, nowhere in my post did I say anything remotely hinting that I agree with all the new rules changes-- I simply corrected your misconceptions and ignorant assumptions.

I personally could not care too much less if they all get brain damage. Again, I was simply correcting your misconceptions. You want to blame Goodell for everything under the sun, but the fact is that the NFL is trying to make itself less liable in court by looking serious about safety. And the reason they are doing that is because some 3400 lawsuits are currently in the systrem right now, filed by former players who spent all their $$$$ and claim the NFL didn't warn them properly of the health consequences of colliding with each other some 1100 times per season.

Now go smash a beer can on your forehead and eat a good book, Twinkie. I think I have taxed your brain enough for one day.

:hatsoff::hatsoff::hatsoff::hatsoff:

ricardisimo
09-27-2012, 08:43 PM
OK. OK.... Let's bring it down a few notches here. I don't want a perfectly good thread getting derailed by personal attack ping pong.

Riddle_Of_Steel
09-27-2012, 08:45 PM
OK. OK.... Let's bring it down a few notches here. I don't want a perfectly good thread getting derailed by personal attack ping pong.

Agreed.

OX1947
09-27-2012, 09:15 PM
Wow-- somebody has anger issues, not to mention denials about his age....

"Old foggie" refers to those of us that have been around long enough to know better. 34 is probably older than a majority of the people posting on internet forums, not to mention the guys playing the sport on the field.

I am sorry if your masculinity was challenged by me caling you "old", but so you know where I am coming from-- I turn 35 in November.



So what you are saying...is that you want to rant and rave like a fxxking 5 year old and not listen to anybody else who tries to make things easier for your simple mind to comprehend. I got ya.

Somebody already pointed out to you, that Goodell is not single-handedly changing the rules of the game-- there is a committee that does that. But don't let facts get in the way of your willful ignorance, Twinkie.

Your dog got run over in the street? Goodell's fault.

You went bankrupt? Goodell's fault.

Wife left you? Goodell's fault.



"Brainwashed slaps"? Wow, not only are you totally ignorant, but you are as about as articulate as the average Klingon, and obviously failed the reading comprehension portion of the SAT. You are the pride of Appalachia, for sure....

I quite clearly stated that I am NOT a fan of all the new rules changes. You seem to have a problem discerning the difference between 'stating the facts' and 'agreeing with the facts'.



Again, nowhere in my post did I say anything remotely hinting that I agree with all the new rules changes-- I simply corrected your misconceptions and ignorant assumptions.

I personally could not care too much less if they all get brain damage. Again, I was simply correcting your misconceptions. You want to blame Goodell for everything under the sun, but the fact is that the NFL is trying to make itself less liable in court by looking serious about safety. And the reason they are doing that is because some 3400 lawsuits are currently in the systrem right now, filed by former players who spent all their $$$$ and claim the NFL didn't warn them properly of the health consequences of colliding with each other some 1100 times per season.

Now go smash a beer can on your forehead and eat a good book, Twinkie. I think I have taxed your brain enough for one day.

:hatsoff::hatsoff::hatsoff::hatsoff:

I hope Goodell and anyone who follows him hits their pinky toe on the end of the table in the living room tonight.

Riddle_Of_Steel
09-27-2012, 10:55 PM
I hope Goodell and anyone who follows him hits their pinky toe on the end of the table in the living room tonight.

Does that include the Rooney's? I do believe that they supported Goodell's re-up until 2014, didn't they?

OX1947
09-28-2012, 12:25 AM
Does that include the Rooney's? I do believe that they supported Goodell's re-up until 2014, didn't they?

Fart.

ricardisimo
09-28-2012, 01:19 AM
Does that include the Rooney's? I do believe that they supported Goodell's re-up until 2014, didn't they?
Yes. Both pinkie toes for them. They should know better.

tony hipchest
09-28-2012, 01:55 AM
ive seen plenty of remarks here that suggest people arent seeing the forest through the trees.

there is history at work that isnt being acknowleged. dick lebeau formulated the zone blitz scheme to combat the west coast offense invented by bill walsh. if you look back is is the bungles defense (with lebeau on the staff) that gave the 49ers the only competition they ever faced in thier 5 superbowls. how ironic is that (walsh came to the 49ers from the bungles staff). were it not for tim krumrie breaking his leg in the 88 sb the bungs would have a ring and the 49ers only have 4 (or less).

so teams have figured this defense out? thats what they said in 2002 when the patriots and raiders opened the season spreading us out and torching us for 90 points in the 1st 2 games. eventually our slapdick DC who didnt know how to run the scheme was fired and the master was brought back. 8 years, 4 AFC champ games, and 2 SB victories later, half the league is running some version of OUR 3-4 defense, and about just as many teams are still trying to duplicate what the raiders and patriots were able to do back in 2002 with their vesrion of the spread offense.

lebeaus defense has virtually eliminated the fullback from nfl rosters, and turned bell cow backs into a rarity.

lebeaus defense has prompted the LEAGUE to institute rules to eliminate hitting and to open up the passing game almost to areana league proportions.

any of yall who think the raiders scrub OC has suddenly figured out and mastered lebeau is a joke (not that knapp hasnt been around the block and isnt familiar with his concepts).

again, if you step back and look at things objectively, it is the SCHEME that is growing and forcing the league and its offenses to adapt and change.

the steelers defense has been the driving force. for almost 20 years about 28+ teams have known that if you want a realistic shot of winning a superbowl, you better be prepared to beat the steelers who stand in the way.

no other team can say that.

ricardisimo
09-28-2012, 02:13 AM
Amen, brutha.

steelers33
09-28-2012, 02:19 AM
I did sense we were predictable a few times last Sunday and that definitely hurt us because Palmer is somebody who is familiar with our schemes. But I think our defensive line,and not having a rusher opposite of Woodley are the main concerns with the defense.

OX1947
09-28-2012, 02:25 AM
ive seen plenty of remarks here that suggest people arent seeing the forest through the trees.

there is history at work that isnt being acknowleged. dick lebeau formulated the zone blitz scheme to combat the west coast offense invented by bill walsh. if you look back is is the bungles defense (with lebeau on the staff) that gave the 49ers the only competition they ever faced in thier 5 superbowls. how ironic is that (walsh came to the 49ers from the bungles staff). were it not for tim krumrie breaking his leg in the 88 sb the bungs would have a ring and the 49ers only have 4 (or less).

so teams have figured this defense out? thats what they said in 2002 when the patriots and raiders opened the season spreading us out and torching us for 90 points in the 1st 2 games. eventually our slapdick DC who didnt know how to run the scheme was fired and the master was brought back. 8 years, 4 AFC champ games, and 2 SB victories later, half the league is running some version of OUR 3-4 defense, and about just as many teams are still trying to duplicate what the raiders and patriots were able to do back in 2002 with their vesrion of the spread offense.

lebeaus defense has virtually eliminated the fullback from nfl rosters, and turned bell cow backs into a rarity.

lebeaus defense has prompted the LEAGUE to institute rules to eliminate hitting and to open up the passing game almost to areana league proportions.

any of yall who think the raiders scrub OC has suddenly figured out and mastered lebeau is a joke (not that knapp hasnt been around the block and isnt familiar with his concepts).

again, if you step back and look at things objectively, it is the SCHEME that is growing and forcing the league and its offenses to adapt and change.

the steelers defense has been the driving force. for almost 20 years about 28+ teams have known that if you want a realistic shot of winning a superbowl, you better be prepared to beat the steelers who stand in the way.

no other team can say that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJFOBI1cZaM

The difference between being the greatest Qb of all time and not being the greatest of all time. One simple dropped INT. And INT that would have more then likely won it for the Bengals. That's how small it is.....

Edman
09-28-2012, 12:05 PM
That's right. The Lebeau Defense forced the league to adapt, and they have adapted quite well when you look at it. That's why our SCHEME needs to adapt. Lebeau Defenses force you to be patient, well guess what, NFL Offenses are patient now. The Down-the Sideline 'Gamebreaker' WR is a minority. Guys who can move underneath and middle are becoming bigger necessities. TE's are being incorporated more into offenses. The "10-Yard Cushion" is eaten alive by that stuff.

As for our 2-Gap Scheme, Leagues have adapted to that as well. :Zone Blocking" is becoming more prevalent. LEGAL Chop Blocking has rendered the "Space Eater" out of commission. That's why Houston, Arizona, and Seattle has switched to 1-Gap D-Line play. Guys who can shoot the gap and attack the O-Line are becoming more disruptive than ever.

Lebeau's success in the past doesn't excuse what is happening now, and the fact of the matter is the Lebeau's Defense is a sieve that contributed to a 1-2 start. Can't stop the run, giving up big gains, can't make crucial stops, can't force turnovers. It's as bad a Defense as I've ever seen. Our way of 3-4 Defense is obsolete.

If we just have one, just one decent defensive performance we're at 2-1.

ricardisimo
09-28-2012, 03:23 PM
And when we're yet again 12-4 and ranked top-5 in D at the end of the year, what are all of you going to say?

steelfury02
09-28-2012, 03:43 PM
http://tbbwb.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Mazel-Tov-1.jpg

GoFor7
09-28-2012, 05:14 PM
And when we're yet again 12-4 and ranked top-5 in D at the end of the year, what are all of you going to say?

I'll say "Where are the sacks and turnovers?" like last year.

Don't let a paper defense fool you on the eye test.

Goldsteel86
09-28-2012, 05:57 PM
ive seen plenty of remarks here that suggest people arent seeing the forest through the trees.

there is history at work that isnt being acknowleged. dick lebeau formulated the zone blitz scheme to combat the west coast offense invented by bill walsh. if you look back is is the bungles defense (with lebeau on the staff) that gave the 49ers the only competition they ever faced in thier 5 superbowls. how ironic is that (walsh came to the 49ers from the bungles staff). were it not for tim krumrie breaking his leg in the 88 sb the bungs would have a ring and the 49ers only have 4 (or less).

so teams have figured this defense out? thats what they said in 2002 when the patriots and raiders opened the season spreading us out and torching us for 90 points in the 1st 2 games. eventually our slapdick DC who didnt know how to run the scheme was fired and the master was brought back. 8 years, 4 AFC champ games, and 2 SB victories later, half the league is running some version of OUR 3-4 defense, and about just as many teams are still trying to duplicate what the raiders and patriots were able to do back in 2002 with their vesrion of the spread offense.

lebeaus defense has virtually eliminated the fullback from nfl rosters, and turned bell cow backs into a rarity.

lebeaus defense has prompted the LEAGUE to institute rules to eliminate hitting and to open up the passing game almost to areana league proportions.

any of yall who think the raiders scrub OC has suddenly figured out and mastered lebeau is a joke (not that knapp hasnt been around the block and isnt familiar with his concepts).

again, if you step back and look at things objectively, it is the SCHEME that is growing and forcing the league and its offenses to adapt and change.

the steelers defense has been the driving force. for almost 20 years about 28+ teams have known that if you want a realistic shot of winning a superbowl, you better be prepared to beat the steelers who stand in the way.

no other team can say that.

This, well spoken Sir!!!! Now to adress the other, you know LeBeau has had a history of adjusting when other teams adjust to the Defensive scheme, with the Bye Week I truly believe there will be adjustments. If you look at the 1st game of the season (without Clark) with Troy on the field Peyton Manning was completely razzled, Troy has the ability to get inside a QB's head. Yes I am as sore as anyone with the loss to the Raiders, I am chomping at the bit to see what happens after the bye. Also, the schedule hasn't been remarkably favorable, 1st game of the season having to fly to Denver (without Clark), then fly home to play the 2nd game against the Jets, hmmmmm hasn't Rex Ryan schemed against the Steelers enough? 3rd game of the season, get back on a plane and fly to the West Coast to play the Raiders, anyone on here ever had "Jet Lag"? Not to mention all of the games have been the 4:30 p.m. or later games. The cards have been stacked against the Steelers to include the early bye week, truth is, I am waiting to see how the team reacts with a healthy Polamalu and hopefully a healthy Mendenhall, maybe establishing a run game will help the Defense out and keep them off the field (also having AB hold onto the ball at mid-fieldwhen the Steelers have the lead may also help BIG TIME). Oh, and lets not forget Polamalu and Clark have not been on the field at the same time this year! I truly believe LeBeau will adjust, question is, will the rest of the Steelers opponents be ready for the adjustments?

FrancoLambert
09-28-2012, 09:30 PM
And when we're yet again 12-4 and ranked top-5 in D at the end of the year, what are all of you going to say?

Honey, I had the most amazing dream last night. :sofunny:

MACH1
09-28-2012, 11:10 PM
And when we're yet again 12-4 and ranked top-5 in D at the end of the year, what are all of you going to say?

Told ya so.



:chuckle:

Edman
09-29-2012, 09:21 AM
And when we're yet again 12-4 and ranked top-5 in D at the end of the year, what are all of you going to say?

I'm going to look at the play on the field and not at the stats. Last year, would you honestly say the Steelers had the best Defense in the league? The Texans, 49ers, and Ravens were far superior defenses. All of them advanced in the postseason why we got owned by a current backup to Mark Sanchez.

GoFor7
09-29-2012, 04:05 PM
I'm going to look at the play on the field and not at the stats. Last year, would you honestly say the Steelers had the best Defense in the league? The Texans, 49ers, and Ravens were far superior defenses. All of them advanced in the postseason why we got owned by a current backup to Mark Sanchez.

Pretty much this. The Steelers defense was good as far as yards and points, but they didn't pass the eye test. Too few splash plays. Too few turnovers. Too few sacks. They really weren't an intimidating defense, they were just a paper defense.

ricardisimo
09-29-2012, 07:19 PM
sigh... then I will respond simply :doh:

Hawaii 5-0
09-29-2012, 07:37 PM
yes, the scheme is predictable at times and Dick LeBeau can be stubborn but that doesn't mean the players aren't partially responsible also.

a good example of that occurred on the Raiders' last drive where they ended up kicking the game-winning FG. it's 3rd and 10 and we have a chance to get off the field and Lawrence Timmons our $50 million LB can't cover Oakland's no-name 3rd string TE.

can't blame the scheme or Dick LeBeau on that play, that particular play is all on Timmons.

Steeldude
09-30-2012, 07:39 AM
This, well spoken Sir!!!! Now to adress the other, you know LeBeau has had a history of adjusting when other teams adjust to the Defensive scheme, with the Bye Week I truly believe there will be adjustments.

There will be no adjustments anytime soon. Lebeau does adjust, but he does it years later. Look no further than the Patriots. How many times did Brady tear up the Steelers' defense?

ricardisimo
09-30-2012, 02:50 PM
There will be no adjustments anytime soon. Lebeau does adjust, but he does it years later. Look no further than the Patriots. How many times did Brady tear up the Steelers' defense?
So you're going to judge a defense based on what Tom Brady in his prime did to it? You do realize, of course, that this means there were no good defenses anywhere in the league for the entirety of the 2000s?

OX1947
09-30-2012, 02:59 PM
Tomlin's game plans in the 4th quarter are the main issue. Steelers havent been blowing or making things tense at the end of 4th quarters just the last year. It almost cost the Steelers a Super Bowl. Almost blew a 21 point lead in the 2010 AFC title game. Tomlin needs to figure out how to kill clock in the 4th. The Steelers had the greatest 4th quarter coach of all time, it makes it obvious. He needs to figure out how to kill clock in the 4th with a damn lead.

Edman
09-30-2012, 07:12 PM
Dickard the Genius humiliated again, and the Steelers didn't even play this week.

All-World Carson Palmer vs. Denver.

19/34, 202 Yards, 0 TD.

Raiders lose 37 to 6.

Hawaii 5-0
10-02-2012, 04:43 PM
Polamalu: Steelers' scheme isn't the problem

Dejan Kovacevic

http://www.oodegr.com/english/empeiries/eikones/troy-polamalu2.jpg

Troy Polamalu gave a flat answer when asked if the Steelers' defense needed to change: "To be quite honest, this is a question that you guys ask us at this same point every single year since I've been here. We're not going to change. It's about how we execute and how we can win our one-on-one matchups. If we don't, it's nothing to do with the scheme of things. It's just that we're not performing."

He then laughed and added, "Maybe I ought to make a recording of that."

http://sulia.com/channel/pittsburgh-steelers/f/70f86136-edac-4d1c-b23e-50b63fcb731d/?source=twitter

GoFor7
10-02-2012, 04:52 PM
Polamalu: Steelers' scheme isn't the problem

Dejan Kovacevic

http://www.oodegr.com/english/empeiries/eikones/troy-polamalu2.jpg

Troy Polamalu gave a flat answer when asked if the Steelers' defense needed to change: "To be quite honest, this is a question that you guys ask us at this same point every single year since I've been here. We're not going to change. It's about how we execute and how we can win our one-on-one matchups. If we don't, it's nothing to do with the scheme of things. It's just that we're not performing."

He then laughed and added, "Maybe I ought to make a recording of that."

http://sulia.com/channel/pittsburgh-steelers/f/70f86136-edac-4d1c-b23e-50b63fcb731d/?source=twitter

Right or wrong, I wouldn't expect many players on that defense to say otherwise.

Although, I should point out the week leading up to the Patriots game last year some of the defensive players pulled the "we are who we are" card.

Edman
10-02-2012, 05:26 PM
And then they sprung an aggressive man defense on New England.

Troy isn't going to talk smack on Lebeau in the media. He's not that kind of person.

Even though Dickard has pretty much set them up to fail, the vets respect Lebeau not to talk crap on him in the media. They know something is clearly wrong with the Defense they've been running, but they're not going to air it out.

Riddle_Of_Steel
10-02-2012, 07:09 PM
Polamalu: Steelers' scheme isn't the problem

Dejan Kovacevic

http://www.oodegr.com/english/empeiries/eikones/troy-polamalu2.jpg

Troy Polamalu gave a flat answer when asked if the Steelers' defense needed to change: "To be quite honest, this is a question that you guys ask us at this same point every single year since I've been here. We're not going to change. It's about how we execute and how we can win our one-on-one matchups. If we don't, it's nothing to do with the scheme of things. It's just that we're not performing."

He then laughed and added, "Maybe I ought to make a recording of that."

http://sulia.com/channel/pittsburgh-steelers/f/70f86136-edac-4d1c-b23e-50b63fcb731d/?source=twitter

Maybe Polamalu needs to make a recording of what our biggest gripe was with Bruce Arians-- he made his players run "his scheme", instead of custom tailoring the scheme to match the talent he has available.

If our guys on defense are not "executing and winning the one-on-one matchups", then the scheme needs to be adjusted accordingly, lest we find ourselves entering "square peg, round hole" territory....

I realize that Polamalu is too classy a guy to call out his mentor and DC in front of the press.

Whatever the guys are saying-- the problem was scheme, moreso than execution. With this same injury-riddled roster we have now (no Harrison, old Dline, no pass rush), we beat the Patriots soundly last year-- and they are one of the highest flying of the high flying offenses in the NFL right now.

You CANNOT tell me that this defense can shut down Tom Brady, but cannot handle Carson Palmer and Darrent McFadden-- not if the right scheme is called.

The sky is NOT falling, and we do NOT need to get rid of Lebeau (you should have your head checked if you are suggesting this) but some things need to change moving forward.

* More press coverage to give the pass rush time to land some sacks, and better job of disguising who is playing deep each play (Peyton Manning was keying off of where Polamalu was lining up pre-snap each play--QBs have to learn to respect our deep secondary at least a little bit for Troy to be able to do his thing).

* No more soft zone cushions, unless the CBs start having trouble staying with their guys consistently in man coverage. We have athletic corners, but they cannot make the play when they are being told to line up 10 yards off their guy.

* Pull some of the snaps Big Snack and Kiesel have been getting and give some snaps to Cam Heyward and Steve Mclendon. At least 50/50. Both have looked awesome this season, but have only been given a literal handful of snaps-- and somehow, the press is seeing phantom #97 and #90 getting "no push" on every play, even though they got a cumulative 11 snaps between the two of them against the Raiders. Cam Heyward closes out the Jets game with a big sack (his second snap), and then gets.....5 touches the next game in favor of an aging veteran with bad knees. Dumb. Kiesel and hamp may just need some more time to heal up, considering they jsut went through rehab for major knee injuries-- not sure why we were in such a rush to start them this year when we have capable guys behind them.

* Timmons needs to wake the hell up.

* Replace Ryan Mundy with a new cardboard cutout if Troy is not ready to go this Sunday.

In all, I would not be alarmed, fellow Steelers faithful....this team is going to get stronger as the year goes on:

* More time with Haley's system.

* Colon will adjust to LG in time.

* Mendenhall coming back.

* Redman getting healthy with less touches.

* DeCastro coming back.

* Poalamlu coming back.

* James Harrison playing his way back to health.

* Either Kiesel and Hamp get healthier legs under them, or Cam & Steve era begins.

teegre
10-02-2012, 07:12 PM
the vets respect Lebeau not to talk crap on him in the media. They know something is clearly wrong with the Defense they've been running, but they're not going to air it out.

I think that there is something wrong... and the Steelers know that there is something wrong... and the players know that there is something wrong. All three facets (fans, coaches, players) are accustomed to having a top five defense... and none of those three will sit idly by & allow this team's defense to slip downward.

They WILL solve this problem.

In-fighting... or throwing each other under the bus does not help.

Again, I am certain that they are aware of the problem... and that they are all collectively trying to figure it out.

ricardisimo
10-02-2012, 09:29 PM
I think that there is something wrong... and the Steelers know that there is something wrong... and the players know that there is something wrong. All three facets (fans, coaches, players) are accustomed to having a top five defense... and none of those three will sit idly by & allow this team's defense to slip downward.

They WILL solve this problem.

In-fighting... or throwing each other under the bus does not help.

Again, I am certain that they are aware of the problem... and that they are all collectively trying to figure it out.
Technically, we do have a top-5 defense (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2012&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1). Now, you can qualify that all you want, and you can all be regular spoiled Steelers fans who can't stomach the thought that other teams, by rule, are allowed to win from time-to-time. Or, you can take a peek into the league's present and future thanks to Mr. Goodell and company. In other words, they really are a top-5 defense in this league, and you can all stop whining.

The flip side to this is that they always turn it around whenever they dip downwards, so just imagine how good they're going to be in a few weeks when they get their studs back and iron a few kinks out.

Hawaii 5-0
10-02-2012, 09:35 PM
* Timmons needs to wake the hell up.

* Replace Ryan Mundy with a new cardboard cutout if Troy is not ready to go this Sunday.


:chuckle: :applaudit:

Rotorhead
10-02-2012, 09:52 PM
I actually think, due to the injured talent, our scheme is being a little forced, once we get Troy and James back our scheme will able to tighten up and our pass rush will improve. For those of you saying our scheme lost in the playoffs, try and remember how many injuries we had. If we hadnt fumbled away the game in Oakland our def would have done just good enough to win, without our top 2 defenders. Im not blaming our offense, but we definately didnt do our ailing def any favors with those turnovers. We will be fine this year and playing for AFC North lead again.

teegre
10-02-2012, 10:48 PM
Technically, we do have a top-5 defense (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2012&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1). Now, you can qualify that all you want, and you can all be regular spoiled Steelers fans who can't stomach the thought that other teams, by rule, are allowed to win from time-to-time. Or, you can take a peek into the league's present and future thanks to Mr. Goodell and company. In other words, they really are a top-5 defense in this league, and you can all stop whining.

The flip side to this is that they always turn it around whenever they dip downwards, so just imagine how good they're going to be in a few weeks when they get their studs back and iron a few kinks out.

Wait... you state that nothing is wrong; and that I should stop whining. Then, in the very next paragraph, you say that they will "turn it around" & that they'll "iron out the kinks."

If there's nothing wrong... well... uh... what would there be to turn around/iron out?

1. Are you yourself whining? Because, that second paragraph sounds eerily like what I said... and you called me a whiner.

2. Regarding paragraph one. Are you reeeeally satisfied with the current performance of this defense? Really? You wouldn't change anything??? Oh... in paragraph two, you say that you would iron out a few kinks... meaning slight changes... so, again, you agree.

3. I have posted, many times that once Polamalu returns, he'll make "just enough" difference, to turn those slight losses into slight wins. Maybe it's a key INT or forced fumble; maybe it's a sack or a batted pass on third down; or, maybe it's making the QB call an extra time out... something small, but significant.

As Al Pacino said, "The difference is in the inches."

They'll be "good enough" to win a SuperBowl... although, mostly due to their offense scoring 30+ (and the defense doing just enough to hold opponents to less than 25).

4. I think an infusion if young talent will turn this "good" defense into a 2008-type of juggernaut. They have some good players, but need some more.

32: Barret Jones. LT, Alabama*
64: Matt Elam, S, Florida
96: Shayne Skov, LB, Stanford
R4: Nico Johnson, LB, Alabama

*[NOTE: As much as I'd like a stud R1 safety, I'd like a LT even more.]

OX1947
10-02-2012, 11:21 PM
The scheme is that Roger Goodell has destroyed defense in football. Thanks to stupid, greedy, ahole owners like Kraft, Snyder and Jones, this is what we have.

tony hipchest
10-03-2012, 12:12 AM
as soon as anyone ON A MESSAGEBOARD starts tossing around 4 round draft predictions (or wish lists) 4 weeks into a season, i immediately tune out.

talk about a useless public excersize (jacking off into a sock at a bus stop, during rush hour, is more productive).

teegre
10-03-2012, 12:36 AM
as soon as anyone ON A MESSAGEBOARD starts tossing around 4 round draft predictions (or wish lists) 4 weeks into a season, i immediately tune out.


That part aside, you don't have any other thoughts...

I mean, because you would only have tuned out at the END... and there were many other points prior to your tuning out... so... any thoughts...

[Yes, while watching college football, I look for players who I'd like to play for the Steelers. I doubt that I'm alone in this regard. Plus, since my point is that there needs to be some more talent on this defense, and since the major insertion of talent comes via the draft, talking about the draft is not as far out in "left field" as you have suggested.]

tony hipchest
10-03-2012, 02:12 AM
That part aside, you don't have any other thoughts...

I mean, because you would only have tuned out at the END... and there were many other points prior to your tuning out... so... any thoughts...

[Yes, while watching college football, I look for players who I'd like to play for the Steelers. I doubt that I'm alone in this regard. Plus, since my point is that there needs to be some more talent on this defense, and since the major insertion of talent comes via the draft, talking about the draft is not as far out in "left field" as you have suggested.]

many people dont like to hear the stats, but we are 6th in the league in total yards allowed on defense, so it is not like we have nothing to work with.

i am encouraged that we likely get polamalu and harrison back, and certainly hope sylvester can contribute as well.

i was about as excited about spence as i was with decastro.

i wont blame the loss on any of these parts on coaches for "mailing " it in.

to your point, i always hope to get younger and more atheletic with the draft, but i also hope for our younger players that we already have, to pay their dues and come into their own,

teegre
10-03-2012, 02:30 AM
many people dont like to hear the stats, but we are 6th in the league in total yards allowed on defense, so it is not like we have nothing to work with.

i am encouraged that we likely get polamalu and harrison back, and certainly hope sylvester can contribute as well.

i was about as excited about spence as i was with decastro.

i wont blame the loss on any of these parts on coaches for "mailing " it in.

to your point, i always hope to get younger and more atheletic with the draft, but i also hope for our younger players that we already have, to pay their dues and come into their own,

I concur with essentially all of that...
... except for Harrison. I fear he may be done for the year (due to that knee). [If he plays, it's a bonus.]

Troy may not be the Troy of 2004-2008, but he still makes that small, but significant, amount of difference... and, honestly, the difference in those two losses was ONE stop. A sack or batted pass on a third down on each of those games, and PITT is 3-0.

I had forgotten about Sly. Indeed, I hope he can make a similar (small, but significant) amount of "difference."

Fifth in total yards; third in passing yards; and eighth in scoring defense. Indeed, something to work with.

Lastly, I agree: the coaches (nor players) are mailing it in. I am certain that they are actively thinking of ways to improve. As I mentioned a few posts back: whatever is "wrong" WILL indeed be corrected.

Hawaii 5-0
10-03-2012, 02:34 AM
talk about a useless public excersize (jacking off into a sock at a bus stop, during rush hour, is more productive).

oh, sooooo that's how you do it...:chuckle:

defence
10-03-2012, 08:24 AM
many people dont like to hear the stats, but we are 6th in the league in total yards allowed on defense, so it is not like we have nothing to work with.

i am encouraged that we likely get polamalu and harrison back, and certainly hope sylvester can contribute as well.

i was about as excited about spence as i was with decastro.

i wont blame the loss on any of these parts on coaches for "mailing " it in.

to your point, i always hope to get younger and more atheletic with the draft, but i also hope for our younger players that we already have, to pay their dues and come into their own,

You are kidding right!! Stats!! The stat that opposing teams are converting almost 50 percent of there 3rd downs you forgot to include. How about the one where opposing teams have only had the ball for 24 minutes a game and the Steelers have had it for 36. That's probably the reason they are sixth in yards because opposing teams are not on the field long enough. You cannot hide the facts that this defence stinks. Bad drafting and age has caught up. Woirlds was supposed to replace Harrison or at least be there as a good replacement when he goes down. I said last season and will say it again; a total bust. Horrible secondary and no attention paid to it. The only place they have paid attention to is the d line; and in a 3 man front; oh well those guys can't shine like they can in a 4 man front. I believe the Steelers held on to players too long and are going to pay for it now. Huge salaries will be dumped at the end of this season along with Dick and his passive defence!!

maddog78
10-03-2012, 08:29 AM
many people dont like to hear the stats, but we are 6th in the league in total yards allowed on defense, so it is not like we have nothing to work with.
,

Our offense is 2nd in time of possession, so this stat is not surprising. In points per game we're 21st, on pace to give up more than 400, something we haven't done since the 5-11 1988 campaign.

When you consider the TOP and we're still 21st in points allowed? That's quite terrible.

teegre
10-03-2012, 09:34 AM
Our offense is 2nd in time of possession, so this stat is not surprising. In points per game we're 21st, on pace to give up more than 400, something we haven't done since the 5-11 1988 campaign.

When you consider the TOP and we're still 21st in points allowed? That's quite terrible.

I could have sworn that they were eighth in scoring defense...

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-03-2012, 11:04 AM
I could have sworn that they were eighth in scoring defense...

in points allowed per game the Steelers are #21 ranked.

Steelerfreak58
10-03-2012, 11:13 AM
in points allowed per game the Steelers are #21 ranked.

UNACCEPTABLE!

teegre
10-03-2012, 02:50 PM
in points allowed per game the Steelers are #21 ranked.

I forgot about the BYE week. Ergo, I should have been looking at "points per game" instead of "total points."

Ergo... holy crud!!!

Hawaii 5-0
10-10-2012, 03:29 AM
Steelers trying to keep defense disguised

Seeing it coming?

Opposing quarterbacks’ statistics against the Steelers’ blitzes:

Quarterback, Team Performance

Michael Vick, Eagles 12 of 18, 134 yards, 2 TDs

Carson Palmer, Raiders 10 of 14, 90 yards, 1 TD

Mark Sanchez, Jets 8 of 17, 90 yards, 1 TD

Peyton Manning, Broncos 8 of 10, 146 yards, 2 TDs

By Alan Robinson
Published: Tuesday, October 9, 2012

Chaos theory is a complex form of mathematics in which seemingly random events become predictable when precise equations are applied, but even the slightest variation can cause unreliable results.

The Steelers’ defense is much the same way.

With its zone blitzes, multiple disguises and numerous schematic variations, the defense is designed to be as confusing to a quarterback as algorithms are to a college freshman. Remove the chaos and the mystery, and it becomes much more unreliable and unpredictable. And beatable.

According to several defensive starters, the Steelers repeatedly tipped their defense during losses in Denver and Oakland, thereby allowing Peyton Manning and Carson Palmer to decipher what was coming and to adjust to it.

The acquired knowledge helped Manning and Palmer lead a combined eight scoring drives in the second half against a Steelers defense that was much more effective against them in the first half. Denver scored 24 points past halftime in its 31-19 win on Sept. 19, and Oakland put up 20 points in the second half in upsetting the Steelers, 34-31, on Sept. 23.

Manning, operating a hurry-up offense, took advantage of the defense’s tendency to line up too quickly and adjusted his play call to what he was reading.

Palmer was more deliberate, waiting out the Steelers at the line of scrimmage and looking for any hints about their blitzing or coverages before running one of several predetermined plays.

“Carson held it, we tipped our hand a little bit, and he got us,” linebacker Larry Foote said Tuesday.

On Darren McFadden’s 64-yard touchdown run in Oakland, Palmer went to a hard count at the line of scrimmage and Brett Keisel, Chris Carter, Lawrence Timmons and Ryan Clark all moved, signaling what the defense was doing. Palmer reset, then checked off to the run.

During the short week of preparation for the Thursday night game at Tennessee, defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau emphasized the importance of keeping the defense disguised until the quarterback has no option but to call the play.

“We’ve got to be veteran enough to look at that (play) clock and say, ‘Hey, he’s not going to go right now, he’s going to gather as much information as he can (first),’ ” LeBeau said. “The bottom line is we have to be smart enough to know how much time that guy’s got, and when he’s going to go.”

A quarterback can benefit most from knowing what coverage a defense will employ.

“You’ve got to disguise,” Foote said. “The DBs (defensive backs), that’s their job to disguise and not show our hand.”

Nose tackle Casey Hampton said, “Guys just got to hold their coverages. You’ve kind of got to get a feel from watching film and knowing when they’re going to snap the ball.”

On at least five occasions Sunday against the Eagles, Steelers linebackers prematurely showed blitzes; Foote did it four times and Timmons once. Eagles quarterback Michael Vick was sacked three times and fumbled three times, but he was 12 of 18 for 134 yards and two touchdowns when the Steelers blitzed. He was 6 of 12 for 41 yards when they didn’t.

Titans quarterback Matt Hasselbeck, filling in for the injured Jake Locker, has faced the Steelers four times previously, including the 2005 season Super Bowl.

“He’s a quick rhythm passer,” Foote said. “A veteran guy like that, you can’t leave anybody open, he’s going to find them.”

What the Steelers intend to do is make sure he doesn’t find out a whole lot more.

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/2738473-85/steelers-defense-quarterback-palmer-foote-defensive-manning-yards-half-oakland#ixzz28s4gvyxp

Rotorhead
10-10-2012, 01:21 PM
I guess all these posts about James being done and 1-2 ppl wont make a difference on Def should find some other reasons to cry