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View Full Version : Ray Horton might have been the one to keep


SteelerJay
09-24-2012, 07:50 PM
Cards hire away Ray Horton as Def Cord and Cards Dee is having a great year...I wonder if that was a big mistake that would spell the end of LeBeau...

So who was the better Le Beau pupil, Horton or asst Butler?

WarBus
09-24-2012, 07:51 PM
I am not a sky is falling, we are doomed, fire everyone Steelers fan. However, seeing how well Whisenhunt is doing with a much, much less talented Arizona squad it begs the question did the Steelers brass make a mistake. Tomlin has had success but he has won largely do to the team he adopted not the team he created. Wisenhunt has a defense playing hungry and with attitude, and he BUILT that team. the team I have seen thus far does not resemble the steelers way and I feel that all starts with what type of attitude the head coach instills in the team and Tomlin has this team going.backwards. obviously if we win Sunday a lot of these thoughts go away, but we didn't so I ask do you feel we would be better off with wisenhunt holding down the reigns? Personally I think we would but let's hope we get healthy in the bye and come out the gates refocused and ready to put players we have in a position to win

steeltheone
09-24-2012, 07:55 PM
Ive said that this is when Tomlin creates his own legacy.

tony hipchest
09-24-2012, 08:02 PM
ken wisenhunt has spent the past 6 years drafting inside the top 10, so no.

also AZ has a ton of talent on D.

StainlessStill
09-24-2012, 08:14 PM
Arizona's defense looks downright NASTY. Looks exactly what the Steelers defense looked like with all of our playmakers in their prime. Daunting.

That said, I'm simply NOT INTERESTED in week 3 contenders. Year after year, we see teams start off hot, only to succumb to the pressure and the weight of a 16 game schedule. Teams are built in November/December.

The way this league now stands, you MUST have an elite QB to carry you into the playoffs. Kevin Kolb isn't that guy. As long as we have Roethlisberger playing the way he plays, we have a shot at an Lombardi.

Most of these 3-0, 2-1 teams right now won't even be in the picture come December. Watch it.

steeltheone
09-24-2012, 08:25 PM
When Warner retired, that really screwed Whiz....Can you imagine Tomlin without BR7? Just imagine our current team with john Skelton or Kevin Kolb...Makes me shiver!

steelerchad
09-24-2012, 08:34 PM
Wiz has done well and I'm glad for him. But Tomlin has been very successful over 5 seasons. More successful than Cowher was. How can you give Cower Credit for Tomlin's success? Cowher went to 2 SB's and won 1 in 15 years. Tomlin has done that in his first 5 years. IDK. If you say Tomlin's success is due to Cowher's players, then I guess Cowher's 94 and 95 AFCC seasons don't count.

I tend to like both coaches. I think Tomlin will win another championship also.

tony hipchest
09-24-2012, 08:39 PM
Cards hire away Ray Horton as Def Cord and Cards Dee is having a great year...I wonder if that was a big mistake that would spell the end of LeBeau...

So who was the better Le Beau pupil, Horton or asst Butler?

butler.

both are fine assistants.

Bayz101
09-24-2012, 09:02 PM
Arizona's defense looks downright NASTY. Looks exactly what the Steelers defense looked like with all of our playmakers in their prime. Daunting.

That said, I'm simply NOT INTERESTED in week 3 contenders. Year after year, we see teams start off hot, only to succumb to the pressure and the weight of a 16 game schedule. Teams are built in November/December.

The way this league now stands, you MUST have an elite QB to carry you into the playoffs. Kevin Kolb isn't that guy. As long as we have Roethlisberger playing the way he plays, we have a shot at an Lombardi.

Most of these 3-0, 2-1 teams right now won't even be in the picture come December. Watch it.

Look no further than last years Buffalo Bills.

Atlanta Dan
09-24-2012, 09:09 PM
Cards hire away Ray Horton as Def Cord and Cards Dee is having a great year...I wonder if that was a big mistake that would spell the end of LeBeau...

So who was the better Le Beau pupil, Horton or asst Butler?


Horton became the leading candidate when the Steelers prevented linebackers coach Keith Butler from interviewing for that position. Whisenhunt was looking for someone who had worked with LeBeau to run Arizona's 3-4 defense, which ranked 29th in the National Football League in 2010

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/steelers-lose-dbs-coach-to-arizona-213713/

Horton went to Arizona only after Butler could not interview for the job

Hard to say who is better but Butler is perceived to be better

tony hipchest
09-24-2012, 09:18 PM
im enjoying watching steelers west and wish them continued success. here in NM they are actually our "local" team.

Denver is a 10 hr drive away. Dallas is a 12 hr drive. Phoenix- 6.

We get every dallas and denver game every week as part of the "local market".

i havent seen a cardinals game on TV here since the playoffs and superbowl (other than the rare instance they have a night game). they are never part of a national braodcast game, and not considered worthy of local market because they suck and people love the cowboys.

go figure. i used to atleast see them twice a year before they moved to the NFC West back when they realy REALLY sucked.

make no mistake... the steelers got the right people.

steeltheone
09-24-2012, 11:00 PM
Wiz has done well and I'm glad for him. But Tomlin has been very successful over 5 seasons. More successful than Cowher was. How can you give Cower Credit for Tomlin's success? Cowher went to 2 SB's and won 1 in 15 years. Tomlin has done that in his first 5 years. IDK. If you say Tomlin's success is due to Cowher's players, then I guess Cowher's 94 and 95 AFCC seasons don't count.

I tend to like both coaches. I think Tomlin will win another championship also.

The steelers had been very average for years before Cowher took over....Tomlin took over a Super Bowl roster...

Once Cowher got BR7...He got his ring....A franchise means everything!

OX1947
09-24-2012, 11:09 PM
ken wisenhunt has spent the past 6 years drafting inside the top 10, so no.

also AZ has a ton of talent on D.

Yup. I also think the Steelers two DL draft picks may be better suited for a 4-3. I think the Steelers should look into switch next year. If this continues, I see Lebeau retiring after this season.

tony hipchest
09-24-2012, 11:24 PM
Yup. I also think the Steelers two DL draft picks may be better suited for a 4-3. I think the Steelers should look into switch next year. If this continues, I see Lebeau retiring after this season.

that means hood and heyward put on 10 lbs and transition to DT (easier for hood).

get rid of harrison and hampton and keisel.

woodley transitions to a dwight freeney type DE. Timmons moves to weak side ILB.

that means we are looking for another DE, MLB and strong side linebacker in next years draft and FA.

thats quite a tall order considering we may need some safety and CB help as well (along with possible replacements for mendenhall and wallace).

teegre
09-24-2012, 11:45 PM
I am not a sky is falling, we are doomed, fire everyone Steelers fan. However, seeing how well Whisenhunt is doing with a much, much less talented Arizona squad it begs the question did the Steelers brass make a mistake. Tomlin has had success but he has won largely do to the team he adopted not the team he created. Wisenhunt has a defense playing hungry and with attitude, and he BUILT that team. the team I have seen thus far does not resemble the steelers way and I feel that all starts with what type of attitude the head coach instills in the team and Tomlin has this team going.backwards. obviously if we win Sunday a lot of these thoughts go away, but we didn't so I ask do you feel we would be better off with wisenhunt holding down the reigns? Personally I think we would but let's hope we get healthy in the bye and come out the gates refocused and ready to put players we have in a position to win

The "Tomlin inherited a SuperBowl team" is only partially true.  

Cowher could only get that current roster to one SuperBowl, and Tomlin got them to two SuperBowls.  

Cowher inherited Noll's completely loaded roster (Greg Lloyd, Rod Woodson)... and if we are being even, well, are you saying that Cowher getting to the play-offs in his first six seasons due to Noll?  

Tomlin has the best winning percentage of any current coach, and  in his first five years... ugh... I'm tired.  There's a thread about this (around the time of Tomlin's extension).  

steeltheone
09-25-2012, 12:29 AM
[QUOTE=teegre;1032859]The "Tomlin inherited a SuperBowl team" is only partially true.  

Cowher could only get that current roster to one SuperBowl, and Tomlin got them to two SuperBowls.  AGAIN...Tomlin had a franchise QB in place....Cowher never did till he got BR7..

Cowher inherited Noll's completely loaded roster (Greg Lloyd, Rod Woodson)... and if we are being even, well, are you saying that Cowher getting to the play-offs in his first six seasons due to Noll?  Loaded roster??? Our best record was 9-7 the prior 6 0r 7 years before Cowher took over..

Tomlin has the best winning percentage of any current coach, and  in his first five years... ugh... I'm tired.  There's a thread about this (around the time of Tomlin's extension). George Seifert did too, till he had to go with his own players....Tomlin is heading down the same path.

teegre
09-25-2012, 12:42 AM
[QUOTE=teegre;1032859]The "Tomlin inherited a SuperBowl team" is only partially true.  

Cowher could only get that current roster to one SuperBowl, and Tomlin got them to two SuperBowls.  AGAIN...Tomlin had a franchise QB in place....Cowher never did till he got BR7..

Cowher inherited Noll's completely loaded roster (Greg Lloyd, Rod Woodson)... and if we are being even, well, are you saying that Cowher getting to the play-offs in his first six seasons due to Noll?  Loaded roster??? Our best record was 9-7 the prior 6 0r 7 years before Cowher took over..

Tomlin has the best winning percentage of any current coach, and  in his first five years... ugh... I'm tired.  There's a thread about this (around the time of Tomlin's extension). George Seifert did too, till he had to go with his own players....Tomlin is heading down the same path.

Yes, having a franchise QB is essential.  Aside from Dilfer & Brad Johnson, the past 20 SuperBowls have been won by teams with elite QBs.  How does that make Tomlin a bad coach???  

Records or not, Cowher inherited a team that had Greg Lloyd, Hardy Nickerson, Carnel Lake, Rod Woodson, et cetera... just as Tomlin inherited a team full of great players.  

Tomlin needs his own players... such as Wallace, AB, DD, Pouncey, Woodley...  

You don't like Tomlin.  You are far from alone.  I am (seemingly) one of the few who think that he's a great coach.  

jb500ex
09-26-2012, 12:55 PM
Three of Tomlin five years ended terribly and were heading for a fourth. Losing jax , Tim tebow and unleashing hell tarnish that winning pct in a big way. If he steelers fail to make the playoffs there is no way you can tell me Tomlin is a good coach. I'm still waiting to see what he actually does

Fire Arians
09-26-2012, 12:56 PM
he wasn't getting it done either

jjpro11
09-26-2012, 01:24 PM
Three of Tomlin five years ended terribly and were heading for a fourth. Losing jax , Tim tebow and unleashing hell tarnish that winning pct in a big way. If he steelers fail to make the playoffs there is no way you can tell me Tomlin is a good coach. I'm still waiting to see what he actually does

To be fair, we had practically nobody left in the Jacksonville playoff game due to injuries.. That, and we got screwed on a non-holding call on Harrison that set up the Game winning FG. The Jags spanked us in the regular season. I was proud of how we overcame a large deficit and almost pulled it out.

If you're going to bring up Tomlin's failures, you cannot overlook his successful seasons as well. 2 of those 5 years ended with Super Bowl births, one win.. 2-0 vs Baltimore in the playoffs. 2-0 in AFCCGs. 4 of 5 playoff births. We had defeated Baltimore in every big regular season game we played them in up until last season. He's had some weak draft picks, and he's had some stellar ones (Woodley, Brown, Wallace, Pouncey). Mendenhall was a good pick as well, it's just unfortunate he's had to run behind some horrible run blocking olines. Put him behind the Texans oline, and he'd be a perennial Pro Bowler.

tony hipchest
09-26-2012, 02:03 PM
Three of Tomlin five years ended terribly and were heading for a fourth. according to the majority of steelerfans, EVERY year since 1980 that hasnt ended with a SB victory "ended terribly".

you think theres lots of love for neil odonnell or all those cowher seasons spent losing the AFCC game at home?

teegre
09-26-2012, 03:13 PM
Three of Tomlin five years ended terribly and were heading for a fourth. Losing jax , Tim tebow and unleashing hell tarnish that winning pct in a big way. If he steelers fail to make the playoffs there is no way you can tell me Tomlin is a good coach. I'm still waiting to see what he actually does

Exactly.

Noll was horrible... losing in the 80s proved that.

Cowher sucked... losing four AFCCGs proved that.

Tomlin is putrid... losing a SuperBowl proved that.

In fact, forty out of forty-six years, we should be embarrassed to be Steelers fans, due to those lackluster coaching years.

:toofunny:

steelfury02
09-26-2012, 03:31 PM
yea, all those years in between Super Bowls in the 70s, those were god awful years, and I can tell you from experience, I was born in 83 . . .

OX1947
09-26-2012, 04:04 PM
Tomlin's only issue is he can not close games. Steelers had the greatest closer in NFL history before him so we are used to an 11 point lead at anytime in the game sealing a win.

Goldsteel86
09-26-2012, 04:13 PM
Cards hire away Ray Horton as Def Cord and Cards Dee is having a great year...I wonder if that was a big mistake that would spell the end of LeBeau...

So who was the better Le Beau pupil, Horton or asst Butler?

Hindsight is 20/20, they both learned from LeBeau, so I think it maybe a moot point!

fansince'76
10-21-2012, 03:56 PM
This thread is looking more and more stupid by the week...

Hawaii 5-0
10-21-2012, 04:12 PM
This thread is looking more and more stupid by the week...


yeah, Adrian Peterson shredded that vaunted Arizona defense for 153 rushing yards today...

austinfrench76
10-21-2012, 06:05 PM
Cards lost AGAIN today. Uh-oh. 2 in a row. Horton sucks!!!!!!!! Just kidding but still funny!