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View Full Version : Happy with Keisel and Hampton?


maddog78
09-25-2012, 08:43 AM
Apparently the coaches are. Why are their young backups getting so few snaps when they are struggling so badly? I focused on these guys on several plays and they are getting pushed around with ease.

Steve McLendon played just three snaps Sunday. Others notable snap counts: Cortez Allen (30), Cameron Heyward (five), Jonathan Dwyer (eight) and Chris Rainey (nine).

Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/2657143-85/palmer-raiders-steelers-yards-cut-game-half-keisel-touchdown-blocking#ixzz27UMfx5ki

steelfury02
09-25-2012, 08:52 AM
Cameron Heyward needs more playing time as does McClendon

MAKE IT SO

Steelerfreak58
09-25-2012, 09:17 AM
Cameron Heyward needs more playing time as does McClendon

MAKE IT SO

Let the young guys make an impact. The vets are not getting it done right now.

Darkstorm05
09-25-2012, 09:40 AM
The only impact Hampton makes these days is when he hits up a buffet. Waste of millions of dollars there(And his contract is a waste, too!).

steelfury02
09-25-2012, 09:57 AM
"2, countem, 2 buckets of wings, uhhhhhhh"

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/images/admin/bs.jpg

Fire Arians
09-25-2012, 11:36 AM
been wondering why casey has been starting after basically just getting off IR. wouldn't a 100% mclendon be more effective than a 80% hampton?

and i have to say, i like 'da beard' but when heyward was in the game, he looked more effective. don't know how much that had to do with being fresh off the sidelines though

Stairway to 7
09-25-2012, 11:41 AM
I didn't want Hampton back at all, he was useless last year. Keisel has surprised me, probably time to move on from him too.


This defense is in total transition.

maddog78
09-25-2012, 12:30 PM
Heyward ended the Jets game with a QB sack. I wonder if he abandoned his 2-gap responsibility and made a play, and was thus disciplined?

Word from Scout.com's insider board is that is exactly what happened to Ta'amu for making a sack in the preseason. Mitchell gave him an earful.

We train our DL to not make plays. That's great when they're guys like Aaron Smith and Casey Hampton in their primes, guys who could eat up two blockers and let LBs clean up.

But recent draft picks on the DL have been 1-gappers who can penetrate and blow up the backfield better than they can absorb multiple OL. Throw in the recent rule change that allows chop-blocking by the adjacent lineman, and our version of the 3-4 has been rendered impotent.

We need a change. If it waits until the offseason, I think we're in for a long year defensively. Hope the offense can develop a running game. Balance will make it even more potent.

Edman
09-25-2012, 12:33 PM
Nope.

Hampton should've been cut out last year. He's not the player he once was. He's done. I don't know why we kept him.

Kiesel played pretty admirably last year, but age has caught up to him too.

Hood, McClendon, and Heyward are the future, yet Hood is the only one starting. Dickard once against showing his loyalty to a dying scheme and a dying age. It's probably a good idea for him to go too along with them.

Edman
09-25-2012, 12:40 PM
Heyward ended the Jets game with a QB sack. I wonder if he abandoned his 2-gap responsibility and made a play, and was thus disciplined?

Word from Scout.com's insider board is that is exactly what happened to Ta'amu for making a sack in the preseason. Mitchell gave him an earful.

We train our DL to not make plays. That's great when they're guys like Aaron Smith and Casey Hampton in their primes, guys who could eat up two blockers and let LBs clean up.

But recent draft picks on the DL have been 1-gappers who can penetrate and blow up the backfield better than they can absorb multiple OL. Throw in the recent rule change that allows chop-blocking by the adjacent lineman, and our version of the 3-4 has been rendered impotent.

We need a change. If it waits until the offseason, I think we're in for a long year defensively. Hope the offense can develop a running game. Balance will make it even more potent.

John Mitchell went on record to say he doesn't want Ta'amu to be a "Superman", and yes, he chewed out Ta'amu for making a big play. Mitchell needs a plane ticket out of Pittsburgh as well.

STAND UP AND MAINTAIN THE GAPS DERP GAP DISCIPLINE GUUUHHH

HERP GIVE RECEIVERS A 7-YARD CUSHION DERP.

DONT ATTACK, READ AND REACT. DON'T GIVE UP THE BIG PLAY HURR DUHH


Results:

15th Ranked Rush Defense.
13th in Points Allowed.
24 and 34 Points given up in consecutive road games. Both losses.

steeltheone
09-25-2012, 12:44 PM
This is what the Steelers do..or at least since Tomlin....They will ride a vet till they are forced to bench him ( Farrior, Smith, Mcfadden now Hampton , Kiesel.

maddog78
09-25-2012, 12:48 PM
John Mitchell went on record to say he doesn't want Ta'amu to be a "Superman", and yes, he chewed out Ta'amu for making a big play. Mitchell needs a plane ticket out of Pittsburgh as well.

STAND UP AND MAINTAIN THE GAPS DERP GAP DISCIPLINE GUUUHHH

HERP GIVE RECEIVERS A 7-YARD CUSHION DERP.

DONT ATTACK, READ AND REACT. DON'T GIVE UP THE BIG PLAY HURR DUHH


Results:

15th Ranked Rush Defense.
24 and 34 Points given up in consecutive road games. Both losses.

Yeah, that's the problem. Opponents aren't making the mistakes our defense counts on. Denver and Oakland scored on all of their 2nd half drives.

Plus, we're giving up big plays. 70+ yarder in Denver, 40+ yarder vs. NYJ, and 60+ yarder in Oakland.

It's just not working. Something has to change. Hopefully Tomlin's 4th down attempt with the game on the line was the first salvo to LeBeau that the defense, as currently schemed and manned, isn't working.

Edman
09-25-2012, 01:01 PM
Yeah, that's the problem. Opponents aren't making the mistakes our defense counts on. Denver and Oakland scored on all of their 2nd half drives.

Plus, we're giving up big plays. 70+ yarder in Denver, 40+ yarder vs. NYJ, and 60+ yarder in Oakland.

It's just not working. Something has to change. Hopefully Tomlin's 4th down attempt with the game on the line was the first salvo to LeBeau that the defense, as currently schemed and manned, isn't working.

In Comparison. The Jets game. Steelers switch to an aggressive man defense. No titty-fight gap control on the D-Line, no crappy Zone Cushion, the Defense attacks insteads of reacts...

NEW YORK DIDN'T SCORE AGAIN. CAM HEYWARD GOT A SACK. NO TROY OR JAMES HARRISON.

Whaaa? No-no. We can't have that. We can't have our D-Linemen getting sacks. That's a No-No. We must play GAP CONTROL. Methinks the Jets game probably hurt Lebeau's ego and pride that HIS Defense didn't work (or wasn't the one that Shut down the Jets) and was destined to prove that it could against an anemic offense like Oakland...

20 POINTS GIVEN UP IN THE SECOND HALF. FIVE CONSECUTIVE SCORING DRIVES. TWO 10-POINT LEADS BLOWN. 13 UNANSWERED POINTS AFTER A 31-21 LEAD. STEELERS LOSE 34-31. LOL.

Dickard the Genius De-Pants'd Again.

It's not working. Dickard's way isn't working. It didn't work when Troy was in there, it won't work with him back. It doesn't work. It's not the talent. It's all on Dickard.

Send Hampton and Kiesel to the bench, bring out Heyward and McClendon. Stop the 10-yard cushions. Sitting back and hope the QB makes mistakes doesn't work anymore. It's Predictable and NFL Offenses have caught on to it. Let Hood, McClendon, and Heyward get after the QB and attack the O-Line. They're Young, Athletic beasts that can terrorize if given the chance. Stop telling them be fat sacks of crap standing there to fight off the O-Line and PLAY TITTY FIGHT GAP CONTROL.

teegre
09-25-2012, 01:07 PM
I think that Casey the Hutt has been done for about four years. My friends and family all make fun of me, because they completely disagree. Regardless, I obviously think that he should not have even been brought back, let alone starting.

I'd rather die with a young & energetic Ta'amu (and/or McClendon) than live with The Hutt.

The Beard... wow!!! he simply fell off of a cliff. He was great two years ago; good last year; and is ineffective this season.

I've always liked Heyward. He needs to be starting... and have thought so since the day that he was drafted (origianlly: start over Hood; now: start over Keisel).

steelfury02
09-25-2012, 01:24 PM
Just thought you might get a kick out Casey the Hutt:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaGODGvWzk8&feature=player_detailpage#t=20s

Curtain_of_Steel
09-25-2012, 01:54 PM
Like we did with Smith, we are keeping around a has been out of some weird loyalty. Instead of putting him at #2 or cutting him, we start him. Great call. Tomlin takes full responsibility, I'm sure.

teegre
09-25-2012, 05:52 PM
Just thought you might get a kick out Casey the Hutt:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaGODGvWzk8&feature=player_detailpage#t=20s

What!?! Casey doesn't work out routinely during the off-season!?! He doesn't have a consistent work out regimine!?! I simply do not believe it.

[Side-note: I rememebr when Natrone Means was playing for the Chargers, and i knew a girl who was "dating" him, and the dude would routinely go to In-N-Out (a burger joint, famous for its double-double hamburgers: two patties, two slices of cheese) and eat a quintuple-quintuple (a burger with five patties & five slices of cheese). He quickly ate himself out of a starting job.]

jtbsteeler
09-25-2012, 07:02 PM
This is what the Steelers do..or at least since Tomlin....They will ride a vet till they are forced to bench him ( Farrior, Smith, Mcfadden now Hampton , Kiesel.

Actually Cowher was the king of not knowing when to put the cow out to pasture.

Bettis
Kordell
Gildon

To name a few....

steeltheone
09-25-2012, 07:14 PM
Actually Cowher was the king of not knowing when to put the cow out to pasture.

Bettis
Kordell
Gildon

To name a few....

Bettis was still productive and not an every down back at the end...He had FWP there with him...

Gildon was an All Pro in 2002, he left in 03'....

Stewart was indeed an issue...

pittpete
09-25-2012, 07:20 PM
Only thing Kiesel is doing well right now is slapfighting the O-lineman.
Hampton is so fat and wasteful its hard to believe hes still a starter
Hood is doing nothing but taking up 1 blocker on most plays.
Why did we draft Cam?
Might as well put Worilds on the line also with all the weight he gained.

SteelersCanada
09-25-2012, 07:44 PM
Are you guys serious?

I came on this site expecting common sense, and what I'm getting is a bunch of bullshit from people who think the season is over after 3 weeks. You guys can't be serious, can you? You guys are also saying Tomlin is hanging onto the veteran guys while not putting in the younger ones, which is valid, but he's doing so for a reason. You don't get to coach the Steelers if you don't have any idea what you're doing. Hampton has being playing decently enough for Woodley to at least apply some pressure on the left side. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if Harrison was healthy and getting to the quarterback on the right side. It would be rainbows and candy, and all this talk about Hampton would be viewed as ridiculous. He's one of the bright spots on an ailing defense right now.

It's tough right now and there's no getting around it. What we don't need, however, are people bitching like they are here about a system that's proven to work when we have our starters out there. Teams are smart enough to throw at Mundy when Troy or Ryan aren't out there because that's immediately the weakest point in our defense. LeBeau has had to adjust the defensive scheme because he doesn't have Harrison wreaking havoc on the right side with Troy roaming around the middle, forcing a quarterback to make poor decisions and create turnovers.

I do agree that it's probably time for LeBeau to hang 'em up, but that would bring in a new defensive philosophy -- something I'm all for. We have the talent to switch to a 4-3 defense with a few adjustments, but we're not doing so.

The defense is in trouble right now, but it's because Harrison and Polamalu aren't out there, thus defensive adjustments have to be made. Once they return, healthy and ready to go, Dick will adjust accordingly and we'll go from there. Bitching and moaning about a team that's 3 weeks into a season might be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. This kind of talk isn't on Patriots and Packers sites, so why is it here?

The Steelers aren't in trouble yet. If, for whatever reason they are still struggling once we return to health, then it's time to push the panic button. Until then, all of this looks like it's coming from a fair-weather fanbase.

Bayz101
09-25-2012, 08:13 PM
Are you guys serious?

I came on this site expecting common sense, and what I'm getting is a bunch of bullshit from people who think the season is over after 3 weeks. You guys can't be serious, can you? You guys are also saying Tomlin is hanging onto the veteran guys while not putting in the younger ones, which is valid, but he's doing so for a reason. You don't get to coach the Steelers if you don't have any idea what you're doing. Hampton has being playing decently enough for Woodley to at least apply some pressure on the left side. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if Harrison was healthy and getting to the quarterback on the right side. It would be rainbows and candy, and all this talk about Hampton would be viewed as ridiculous. He's one of the bright spots on an ailing defense right now.

It's tough right now and there's no getting around it. What we don't need, however, are people bitching like they are here about a system that's proven to work when we have our starters out there. Teams are smart enough to throw at Mundy when Troy or Ryan aren't out there because that's immediately the weakest point in our defense. LeBeau has had to adjust the defensive scheme because he doesn't have Harrison wreaking havoc on the right side with Troy roaming around the middle, forcing a quarterback to make poor decisions and create turnovers.

I do agree that it's probably time for LeBeau to hang 'em up, but that would bring in a new defensive philosophy -- something I'm all for. We have the talent to switch to a 4-3 defense with a few adjustments, but we're not doing so.

The defense is in trouble right now, but it's because Harrison and Polamalu aren't out there, thus defensive adjustments have to be made. Once they return, healthy and ready to go, Dick will adjust accordingly and we'll go from there. Bitching and moaning about a team that's 3 weeks into a season might be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. This kind of talk isn't on Patriots and Packers sites, so why is it here?

The Steelers aren't in trouble yet. If, for whatever reason they are still struggling once we return to health, then it's time to push the panic button. Until then, all of this looks like it's coming from a fair-weather fanbase.

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!!!!!!!

:chuckle:

Welcome to the forum.

pittpete
09-25-2012, 11:03 PM
Sorry Canada, too much generalizing in trying to prove your point.
Throwing at Mundy?
When did the Raiders throw at Mundy?
The CB's were eaten alive.
The DL play has been sub-par,which doesnt bode well for our ILBers.
Hood and Kiesel are generating no push.
Woodley seems to drop into coverage on every other play(maybe I'm generalizing now)
The sky isnt falling.
I will say that putting our hopes on a 34 year old James Harrison coming off a recent knee surgery and 2 lower back surgeries coming back to wreak havoc isnt all too promising.
I hope your right bro

maddog78
09-26-2012, 08:13 AM
Bettis was still productive and not an every down back at the end...He had FWP there with him...

Gildon was an All Pro in 2002, he left in 03'....

Stewart was indeed an issue...

How many years did he start Haggans while Harrison sat? '04 -> '06?

maddog78
09-26-2012, 08:15 AM
all this talk about Hampton would be viewed as ridiculous. He's one of the bright spots on an ailing defense right now.


Not trying to be smart, but are you watching the games? Focus on Casey on running plays. He is easily whisked out of the play by one guy. He's done.

FacemeIke
09-26-2012, 08:27 AM
I can't believe it hasn't been mentioned yet, but I put a lot of that loss on Keisel for jumping offsides on 4th and 3. Oakland was clearly never going to snap that ball and was only trying to draw us offsides and it worked. They ended up getting 7 points instead of 3 on that drive. I just couldn't believe someone who has been around as long as Keisel did that. A rookie type mistake.

steelfury02
09-26-2012, 08:41 AM
fair-weather fanbase? I don't think so. Fair-weather means only being loyal during a time of success. I wouldn't confuse passion with loyalty.

Over-analyzing and over-reacting? That is passion IMO. There is all shades of grey in Steelers Nation. There are plenty of bandwagoners/fair-weather fans, then there are die-hards who either have a lot, a little, or no football knowledge that love the Steelers just the same.

All I know is that I got a similar feeling I had at the beginning of last season, only a little worse. And yea, Steelers Nation has been spoiled so I'd like to think those that are pissy after 3 games, know what a strong defense looks like, win, lose, or draw - and it doesn't look like one to me. I hope I'm proven wrong.

FrancoLambert
09-26-2012, 10:20 AM
Are you guys serious?

I came on this site expecting common sense, and what I'm getting is a bunch of bullshit from people who think the season is over after 3 weeks. You guys can't be serious, can you? You guys are also saying Tomlin is hanging onto the veteran guys while not putting in the younger ones, which is valid, but he's doing so for a reason. You don't get to coach the Steelers if you don't have any idea what you're doing. Hampton has being playing decently enough for Woodley to at least apply some pressure on the left side. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if Harrison was healthy and getting to the quarterback on the right side. It would be rainbows and candy, and all this talk about Hampton would be viewed as ridiculous. He's one of the bright spots on an ailing defense right now.

It's tough right now and there's no getting around it. What we don't need, however, are people bitching like they are here about a system that's proven to work when we have our starters out there. Teams are smart enough to throw at Mundy when Troy or Ryan aren't out there because that's immediately the weakest point in our defense. LeBeau has had to adjust the defensive scheme because he doesn't have Harrison wreaking havoc on the right side with Troy roaming around the middle, forcing a quarterback to make poor decisions and create turnovers.

Oh Canada........

YOU are way off when you mistake justified criticism as "bullshit" and "a lack of common sense." Most of the fans here are very knowledgeable and very passionate.
Suggestion for you, re-watch the game and focus on the defensive line play.
You'll see a big problem there.
As for the "system," it has worked fine in the past but teams seem to have figured it out.
Now more than ever, offenses seem to call the right play at the right time.
Palmer changed the play at the line several times and it usually worked.
As for "Hampton has played decently." ????? :toofunny:





I do agree that it's probably time for LeBeau to hang 'em up, but that would bring in a new defensive philosophy -- something I'm all for. We have the talent to switch to a 4-3 defense with a few adjustments, but we're not doing so.

The defense is in trouble right now, but it's because Harrison and Polamalu aren't out there, thus defensive adjustments have to be made. Once they return, healthy and ready to go, Dick will adjust accordingly and we'll go from there. Bitching and moaning about a team that's 3 weeks into a season might be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. This kind of talk isn't on Patriots and Packers sites, so why is it here?

The Steelers aren't in trouble yet. If, for whatever reason they are still struggling once we return to health, then it's time to push the panic button. Until then, all of this looks like it's coming from a fair-weather fanbase.

Oh Canada........

YOU are way off when you mistake justified criticism as "bullshit" and "a lack of common sense." Most of the fans here are very knowledgeable and very passionate.
Suggestion for you, re-watch the game and focus on the defensive line play.
You'll see a big problem there.
As for the "system," it has worked fine in the past but teams seem to have figured it out.
Now more than ever, offenses seem to call the right play at the right time.
Palmer changed the play at the line several times and it usually worked.
As for "Hampton has played decently." ????? :toofunny:

Darkstorm05
09-26-2012, 11:21 AM
Are you guys serious?

I came on this site expecting common sense, and what I'm getting is a bunch of bullshit from people who think the season is over after 3 weeks. You guys can't be serious, can you? You guys are also saying Tomlin is hanging onto the veteran guys while not putting in the younger ones, which is valid, but he's doing so for a reason. You don't get to coach the Steelers if you don't have any idea what you're doing. Hampton has being playing decently enough for Woodley to at least apply some pressure on the left side. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if Harrison was healthy and getting to the quarterback on the right side. It would be rainbows and candy, and all this talk about Hampton would be viewed as ridiculous. He's one of the bright spots on an ailing defense right now.

It's tough right now and there's no getting around it. What we don't need, however, are people bitching like they are here about a system that's proven to work when we have our starters out there. Teams are smart enough to throw at Mundy when Troy or Ryan aren't out there because that's immediately the weakest point in our defense. LeBeau has had to adjust the defensive scheme because he doesn't have Harrison wreaking havoc on the right side with Troy roaming around the middle, forcing a quarterback to make poor decisions and create turnovers.

I do agree that it's probably time for LeBeau to hang 'em up, but that would bring in a new defensive philosophy -- something I'm all for. We have the talent to switch to a 4-3 defense with a few adjustments, but we're not doing so.

The defense is in trouble right now, but it's because Harrison and Polamalu aren't out there, thus defensive adjustments have to be made. Once they return, healthy and ready to go, Dick will adjust accordingly and we'll go from there. Bitching and moaning about a team that's 3 weeks into a season might be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. This kind of talk isn't on Patriots and Packers sites, so why is it here?

The Steelers aren't in trouble yet. If, for whatever reason they are still struggling once we return to health, then it's time to push the panic button. Until then, all of this looks like it's coming from a fair-weather fanbase.


Of course Tomlin is doing it for a reason. Otherwise he wouldn't be, would he? Whether or not the reasoning is good, is another matter. It doesn't seem like you've been watching the same games everyone else has. I have yet to see a single person before this post defending Hampton as putting up a performance worth the 5 mil he's collecting for it.

Ragging on Hampton(Or any other player) doesn't diminish ones fans status. Most of us are here for the Pittsburgh Steelers, not the Casey Hampton Football Hour. Those Patriots you mention have nothing to complain about because Brady is healthy, and they're actually all Brady fans. The day Brady retires the Patriots fan base goes away.

Fire Arians
09-26-2012, 11:54 AM
fair-weather fanbase? I don't think so. Fair-weather means only being loyal during a time of success. I wouldn't confuse passion with loyalty.

Over-analyzing and over-reacting? That is passion IMO. There is all shades of grey in Steelers Nation. There are plenty of bandwagoners/fair-weather fans, then there are die-hards who either have a lot, a little, or no football knowledge that love the Steelers just the same.

All I know is that I got a similar feeling I had at the beginning of last season, only a little worse. And yea, Steelers Nation has been spoiled so I'd like to think those that are pissy after 3 games, know what a strong defense looks like, win, lose, or draw - and it doesn't look like one to me. I hope I'm proven wrong.

pretty much. a fair weather fan's response to the last game would just be like "oh i guess we suck now, I'll go cheer for arizona. I won't throw away my terrible towel though, we might be good later" lol

stiller39
09-26-2012, 01:06 PM
How many years did he start Haggans while Harrison sat? '04 -> '06?

Your right on the money mad....

teegre
09-26-2012, 02:05 PM
How many years did he start Haggans while Harrison sat? '04 -> '06?

Cowher cut him four times; the Ravens cut one other time.

James Harrison did not have it "together" mentally to make any team. Then, he started to "get it"... and then, he was unstoppable.

TRH
09-26-2012, 02:13 PM
i have no idea why we even kept Hampton, let alone playing him. He's so fat, he can barely move. Hood has been awful this year...a former #1 and so much promise leading into this year, he's been one of the teams biggest disappointments.

teegre
09-26-2012, 02:26 PM
i have no idea why we even kept Hampton, let alone playing him.

My family, my in-laws, and my friends all love The Hutt.

I cannot understand why you & I (and most people on here) can see that so blatantly... yet, the coaches (& my cohorts) can not...???