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View Full Version : How Much Money will be saved next year.


walkon
09-26-2012, 05:54 PM
After we release Harrison, Hampton, Keisel and any other over paid FA that's not living up to thier contracts.

tony hipchest
09-26-2012, 07:19 PM
After we release Harrison, Hampton, Keisel and any other over paid FA that's not living up to thier contracts.

l91ISfcuzDw

Bayz101
09-26-2012, 07:29 PM
:sofunny:

StainlessStill
09-26-2012, 07:38 PM
Alright, that was hilarious. I just pissed myself, lmao.

MACH1
09-26-2012, 07:41 PM
15%

http://cdn3.hark.com/images/000/003/426/3426/original.jpg

sloppyjoe
09-26-2012, 07:42 PM
not as much if we would have done casey and keisel this year(like they should have)

Bayz101
09-26-2012, 07:48 PM
15%

http://cdn3.hark.com/images/000/003/426/3426/original.jpg

:chuckle:

tony hipchest
09-26-2012, 08:05 PM
now that im through laughing at my own post, id say roughly 14-15 mil could be cut off next years cap by releasing these 3.

tons more $$$ can be saved by not signing guys such as pouncey or wallace.

teegre
09-26-2012, 08:06 PM
tons more $$$ can be saved by not signing guys such as pouncey or wallace.

Wallace... hmmm... while I disagree, I know that some want him gone.

Pouncey... are you serious??? Really... c'mon, man... seriously???

tony hipchest
09-26-2012, 08:15 PM
Wallace... hmmm... while I disagree, I know that some want him gone.

Pouncey... are you serious??? Really... c'mon, man... seriously???

im not saying they wont potentially live up to their contracts, just pointing out where some mega savings can be had.

i'll add mendenhall in there as well.... and miller.

lets face it, our running game will suck with or w/o pouncey and we will give up just as many sacks (he is awesome and one of the best but we've done just the same with or without him).

same with wallace. with 9-10 extra mil a year, we can spend money elsewhere and try to find someone to compliment brown and sanders in the draft.

did i mention sanders is a free agent as well?

when studying capology, you have to look at EVERY option seriously... thats just how the biz is and how the best in the biz (like o. kahn) approach it.

Bayz101
09-26-2012, 08:25 PM
Is Sanders a restricted FA next year?

WVABE
09-26-2012, 08:28 PM
We need Pouncey, **** Wallace.

tony hipchest
09-26-2012, 08:28 PM
Is Sanders a restricted FA next year?yes. we can do the same to him we did to wallace this season.

Bayz101
09-26-2012, 08:30 PM
yes. we can do the same to him we did to wallace this season.

And that we will, unless of course he stinks it up this year.

tony hipchest
09-26-2012, 08:35 PM
We need Pouncey, **** Wallace.we have pouncey this year. our running game sucks and ben is still getting sacked an average of 3X / game.

ben is getting rid of the ball quicker and off to his best career start. mendenhall is an upgrade but isnt going to be putting up m jones drew #'s behind this line.

is decastro going to be the saviour pouncey was SUPPOSED to be? time will tell, but its not like we were piling up the yardage in pre-season when he was healthy.

i DO agree that it all starts up front. we need to pay the youth weve drafted along the line. and get younger on defense (if you can get any younger than heyward/mcclendon/alameda who is still stuck on the bench, and ziggy hood who will be needing an extension as well.

Fire Haley
09-26-2012, 08:45 PM
you don't get it Tony

the hell with the running game - screw Redman and Dwyer - they are not 1st rate talent RB's anyway

We have Ben and he needs his receivers and O-line - I'd pay Wallace $100M TODAY because we need Ben to score 40 pts a game EVERY GAME for the next 5 years to have any chance at being competitive.

The defense is FINISHED - DONE! and there's no bringing it back unless we draft another Aaron Smith next year + 2 starting CB's

StainlessStill
09-26-2012, 08:50 PM
I believe next in line will be a STOUT and pure LT. None of this "he can play multiple positions, so we liked him" hoarse-shit. We need an ANIMAL of a left tackle in next years draft and it should come in the 1st or 2nd rounds. Our right side would be SET with DeCastro and Gilbert but Starks can't be our saving grace as long as Ben wants to ride it out. If anything, try Gilbert at LT and let him compete with next year's draft pick and allow Adams to man the RT position (he played well when he filled for Gilbert in Denver.)

This line was again, doomed from the start. We weren't even 2 games in and we were on 3,000 line rotations. Not sure what it's going to take to get this line back to 2004, 2005 caliber.

Curtain_of_Steel
09-26-2012, 09:00 PM
We could cut Ben too, saves us 10million probably. since we don't need Wallace or Pouncey, we really don't need Ben.lol

We should have plenty of cash next year with some added retooling due to age. Hopefully these guys who can't play up to the standard don't get the Aaron Smith pass for a year.

Wallace has already proven he is worth the contract. The problem is Wallace cant add 1+1, the 5million difference, after his agent, posse, and uncle same is a whopping 2million bucks. After cuts next year they will tag his ass anyway.

tony hipchest
09-26-2012, 09:01 PM
you don't get it Tony

the hell with the running game - screw Redman and Dwyer - they are not 1st rate talent RB's anyway

We have Ben and he needs his receivers and O-line - I'd pay Wallace $100M TODAY because we need Ben to score 40 pts a game EVERY GAME for the next 5 years to have any chance at being competitive.

The defense is FINISHED - DONE! and there's no bringing it back unless we draft another Aaron Smith next year + 2 starting CB's

nah, i hear ya.

what wr missed all of camp but so far has more td's than the likes of high priced larry fitz and megatron?

mike wallace

and that is with heath miller on his team who is leading the league in TD's (tied with vernon davis) and outperforming rob porndonk gronkowski.

nobody said the passing game isnt a viable option especially with a qb counting 19 mil against the cap next year.

mendenhall, dwyer, and redman are all in the final year of their contract.

here the majority of the fans are concerned about the coaches and their schemes, not even realizing it is colbert and kahn steering the rooney's ship into 2013

tony hipchest
09-26-2012, 09:22 PM
We could cut Ben too, saves us 10million probably. since we don't need Wallace or Pouncey, we really don't need Ben.
.

now THAT is just stupid on so many different levels.

the FRIST rule in discussing capology is being able to take off the homer fanhat and looking at things objectively. sometimes teams are forced into making tough decisions very few of the fans are able to understand (think the texans wanted to dump eric winston or mario williams)?

Ben costs 19 mil against the cap next year, not the 10 mil in savings you would suggest because their is also the prorated (amortized) portion of his signing bonus that has already been restructured and pushed into the future twice.

that is a FAR cry than the situation wallace and pouncey find themselves in. wallace controls his own destiny in 2013 or becomes a top 5 paid wr for one year. pouncey finds himself in the same boat in 2014.

in 2013 you are looking at extending young guys or retaining the services of players like ike, troy, and heath.

while cutting guys like harrison and keisel may actually save 14.5 mil, it really only ammounts to $8mil in cap relief.

Bayz101
09-26-2012, 09:40 PM
I HAVE to believe curtain is either being factitious, or just doesn't understand the capology terminology.

Blackout
09-26-2012, 09:44 PM
As much as I love AB, it's going to kill me to see Wallace going to another team. If I'm understanding tony correctly we have a chance at paying Wallace what he's worth?

tony hipchest
09-26-2012, 09:48 PM
As much as I love AB, it's going to kill me to see Wallace going to another team. If I'm understanding tony correctly we have a chance at paying Wallace what he's worth?we definitely have a chance. but it wont come w/o consequences.

for anyone really interested in the capology and actually studying it, dave of steelersdepot is about the best research you will find on the net.

back in like 2006 the postgazette used to run cap and contract numbers on what basically was a spreadsheet that anyone could study, but that type of information is like guarded trade secrets nowadays (understandably so when so many teams fail managing the cap while teams like the steelers have mastered it).

here are the latest numbers (which are probably the closest to accurate as one will find) and a good summation of the situation going into next year-

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/08/an-early-look-at-the-steelers-2013-salary-cap-situation/

Bayz101
09-26-2012, 09:56 PM
I used to use this: http://www.spotrac.com/

Blackout
09-26-2012, 10:23 PM
we definitely have a chance. but it wont come w/o consequences.

for anyone really interested in the capology and actually studying it, dave of steelersdepot is about the best research you will find on the net.

back in like 2006 the postgazette used to run cap and contract numbers on what basically was a spreadsheet that anyone could study, but that type of information is like guarded trade secrets nowadays (understandably so when so many teams fail managing the cap while teams like the steelers have mastered it).

here are the latest numbers (which are probably the closest to accurate as one will find) and a good summation of the situation going into next year-

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/08/an-early-look-at-the-steelers-2013-salary-cap-situation/

This was a great read, thanks. Sounds easy on paper.

teegre
09-27-2012, 12:47 AM
im not saying they wont potentially live up to their contracts, just pointing out where some mega savings can be had.

i'll add mendenhall in there as well.... and miller.

lets face it, our running game will suck with or w/o pouncey and we will give up just as many sacks (he is awesome and one of the best but we've done just the same with or without him).

same with wallace. with 9-10 extra mil a year, we can spend money elsewhere and try to find someone to compliment brown and sanders in the draft.

did i mention sanders is a free agent as well?

when studying capology, you have to look at EVERY option seriously... thats just how the biz is and how the best in the biz (like o. kahn) approach it.

Tony, I normally agree with you... about 98.5% agreement. But, I completely disagree on this topic.

OL has the key to football. Well, the QB is the key... but, the OL prevents the defenders from getting to the QB. Thus, they are the key by proxy.

SuperBowl XLV can be said (by some) to have been "turned", when a Packer DL pushed Doug Legursky back into BB, forcing a pick-six.

SuperBowl XLIII had a similar play, where Darnell Dockett pushed Justin Hartwig back into BB.

When Pouncey is in, the pocket is solid up the middle.

But, as great as he is, Pouncey can not do it on his own. He needs at least two other good players around him.

DD will help this OL get better. Him next to Pouncey WILL be special. Not only will it protect BB, it will make holes for ANY running back. Sure, he wasn't stellar as a rookie in the pre-season... but, he was a rookie... in the pre-season. Faneca didn't even start until mid-way through his rookie year.

The Colon is a bitter disappointment (to me). I thought that he'd flourish as an OG. Alas, he is a penalty machine. And, honestly, Kemo seemed to block better (with the same amount of penalties). I can only hope that The Colon gets better.

Gilbert (and Adams and Beachum) give the Steelers a solid RT (& two capable back-ups, along with the interior back-ups: Legursky & Foster).

The glaring hole is at LT. Starks is rock-solid, but he has been too injured to last much longer. I was hoping that the future was Adams, but Beachum seems to be ahead of him on the depth chart (which is not a good sign for Adams). Maybe Gilbert switches over... nah, I say leap him at RT. Anyway, that means that the key to helping Pouncey, which is the key to helping BB, is a LT. I really like Barrett Jones. Anyway...

Where was I... (I got lost in a tangent)...

I totally understand the cap. I know that sometimes, tough devisions have to be made. But, on the flip side, Omar Kahn is great at working the cap, in order to keep players around. The best example: look at Ike Taylor's contract(s).

Money invested in Pouncey helps BB. It helps the WRs get open (via the DL not being able to get to BB for 7 seconds), It helps the RBs (via holes). I am all for spending money on the OL.

Maybe the OL hasn't been much better with or without Pouncey... (I think it has indeed been better: look at those aforementioned SuperBowls)... but, again, one O-lineman cannot take on the entire DL.

Pouncey is one cog.
DD is the second cog.
It is a work in progress... that I would like to see continue to develop.

tony hipchest
09-27-2012, 02:17 AM
Tony, I normally agree with you... about 98.5% agreement. But, I completely disagree on this topic.

OL has the key to football. Well, the QB is the key... but, the OL prevents the defenders from getting to the QB. Thus, they are the key by proxy.

.thats fine. ive already stated that it all starts up front with tho-line.

a legitimate capology discussion simply cannot be summed up with or by a single comment.

it is too complex with WAY too many moving parts. its a zero sum game. if you give to the offense you take from the defense and vice versa.

dont get me wrong... pouncey is great. next in line to webster and dawson which probably means he will be paid like a top notch LT just like his draft position suggests he should.

he may even be as great to the steelers o-line as cortez kennedy was to seattles d-line. but from a capologists point of view, what exactly did that get seattle?

i understand why people reading this thread will think i am advocating letting pouncey go, when reality is i am certain he will be kept for the long haul and approve that move.

it will come at a cost though. if all the high picks we have spent on DL and mid round picks on CBs hold up, we should be fine.

the cap should go up but its been stagnant going on 4 years and we see how the league owners pinch pennies when it comes to the refs.

them damn 47%ers always looking for handouts :banging:.

teegre
09-27-2012, 04:08 PM
thats fine. ive already stated that it all starts up front with tho-line.

a legitimate capology discussion simply cannot be summed up with or by a single comment.

it is too complex with WAY too many moving parts. its a zero sum game. if you give to the offense you take from the defense and vice versa.

dont get me wrong... pouncey is great. next in line to webster and dawson which probably means he will be paid like a top notch LT just like his draft position suggests he should.

he may even be as great to the steelers o-line as cortez kennedy was to seattles d-line. but from a capologists point of view, what exactly did that get seattle?

i understand why people reading this thread will think i am advocating letting pouncey go, when reality is i am certain he will be kept for the long haul and approve that move.

it will come at a cost though. if all the high picks we have spent on DL and mid round picks on CBs hold up, we should be fine.

the cap should go up but its been stagnant going on 4 years and we see how the league owners pinch pennies when it comes to the refs.

them damn 47%ers always looking for handouts :banging:.

1. Of course, if money is given to one player, other players will need to be cut (or get less money). This is basic. I think that we all understand & agree with that.

2. I created a post, a few months ago, about focusing most of the money on the offensive players (BB, Wallace, AB, Pouncey, DD, Heath) and using the majority of the draft picks on defense. I won't go into details (again), but basically, the current talent resides mostly on the offense. Thus, I say: pay'em, keep'em, and flourish on offense (while filling holes on defense with young, cheap draftees).

3. Cortez Kennedy might have been overpaid... but, there are 21 other starters. Honestly, I don't think that his contract ate up money for the entire rest of the starters (i.e. all of the other 21 players). Truthfully, maybe he ate up the contracts for 2 other guys... leaving plenty of money for one or two other great players to be signed. Alas, for SEA, they had other problems.

For example, the Seahawks drafted around 16th for many, many years: not good enough to draft a difference maker, but not low enough to be a play-off team. It was a horrible, horrible place to be stuck: mediocrity.

4. Allow me to offer a couple of thoughts about the O-line... and I think that I am preaching to the choir, but just to be sure...

The DAL O-line from the early 90s. That was a bunch of brutes, who opened up huuuge holes for Emmit. That got them three SuperBowls.

Likewise, the Hogs (ie the WASH O-line) got them three SuperBowls.

RE-CAP:
Simply, I am advocating that the money be spent on O-line... as well as on other offensive players.

Q: At what cost?
A: Defensive players who are "avergae." Obviously, players of the ilk of Troy or Greg Lloyd would be retained (not all of the cap would go to offense), but players who are average (Keenan Lewis), would be shown the door, to be repalced by younger, cheaper draftees (Cortez Allen).

On final question...
Are we in the 53% or the 47%?

Fire Arians
09-27-2012, 04:33 PM
I'm all for paying the o-line. we have an elite franchise QB, and we need him on his feet in order to win. This team will get as far as ben takes us, so a strong o-line is the most critical piece of the puzzle.

These aren't your grandpa's steelers, I think we are making the transition from a defensive team to a high powered offense with average defense. I'm fine with that if it wins us games.

teegre
09-27-2012, 04:58 PM
Here are some average/old/ineffective players who I'd cut soon :: followed by their young, cheaper replacement.

Casey the Hutt :: McClendon & Ta'amu

Keisel :: Heyward

Foote :: Spence

Harrison :: (draft pick)

[These guys will need to be replaced, in a year or two.]

Troy :: (draft pick)

Clark :: (draft pick)

Ike :: (Cortez Allen)

[I'd allow Lewis to leave, as opposed to paying him. Same goes with Hood.]

Keenan Lewis :: (draft draft pick... or, maybe Curtis Brown)

Hood :: (draft pick... Ta'amu...)

Fire Arians
09-27-2012, 05:06 PM
Here are some average/old/ineffective players who I'd cut soon :: followed by their young, cheaper replacement.

Casey the Hutt :: McClendon & Ta'amu

Keisel :: Heyward

Foote :: Spence

Harrison :: (draft pick)

[These guys will need to be replaced, in a year or two.]

Troy :: (draft pick)

Clark :: (draft pick)

Ike :: (Cortez Allen)

[I'd allow Lewis to leave, as opposed to paying him. Same goes with Hood.]

Keenan Lewis :: (draft draft pick... or, maybe Curtis Brown)

Hood :: (draft pick... Ta'amu...)

i don't see foote getting replaced next year, spence's injury was really bad and I'm not optimistic on him coming back in full force next year. maybe the season after next, but I hope I'm wrong.

agree with casey, on the fence about keisel, and harrison... I don't want to think about that one right now, it's just depressing thinking that his career may be over / close to over

teegre
09-27-2012, 07:11 PM
i don't see foote getting replaced next year, spence's injury was really bad and I'm not optimistic on him coming back in full force next year. maybe the season after next, but I hope I'm wrong.

agree with casey, on the fence about keisel, and harrison... I don't want to think about that one right now, it's just depressing thinking that his career may be over / close to over

FOOTE: I believe that he is a free agent; hence, he'd actually have to be re-signed. Thus... heal, Spence... heal.

KEISEL/HARRISON: Agreed. The Beard is such a rad player. And, Debo... let me put it this way: my best friend is a die-hard Chargers fan, but he wears a Debo jersey that he made (he spray painted "92" on a power-blue T-shirt) when he visits parents' house (for MNF games). He is actually more upset over Harrison's injury/end of his career than even I am.

tony hipchest
09-27-2012, 11:30 PM
from kaboly of the trib-

#Steelers OC Todd Haley handed out one of his highest grade ever to this guy following the Raiders game.

Steelers offensive coordinator Todd Haley told me today that the grade he gave center Maurkice Pouncey after reviewing the tape of Sunday's loss to Oakland was one of/if not the highest grade he ever remembers handing out to a player in all his days of coaching. That's saying something, especially after the Steelers rushed for only 54 yards.


pouncey is gonna stay but he will cost LT money. I thought colon would be dominant by now, of course decastro is hurt. starks is at the end of the line and i dont think gilbert gets it. he has cement between his ears and seems more concerned with his social life than football.

the upcoming cap situation reminds me alot of 2007 where we had faneca, ward, and polamalu (3 sure HOF candidates who earned and were worth big contracts) to pay but only enough cap wiggle room to keep 2.

there are going to be alot of similar dificult decisions coming up. i have a feeling the league is going to work real hard to keep the salary cap from rising like it was 4-5 years ago at a rate of about 7 mill/year.

Hawaii 5-0
09-29-2012, 03:24 AM
James Harrison Salary Cap Liability Moving Forward Into 2013

Friday, September 28th, 2012 by Dave Bryan

I took a good bit of ridicule early on in the offseason when I posted that it would not be surprising to see Pittsburgh Steelers linebacker James Harrison miss a few games this season, and even more ridicule when I suggested that this would likely be his last season in the black and gold. It pained me to suggest that, but the writing certainly was on the wall.

Most took my prediction as ridicule of Harrison, but it was anything but that. I think what the former undrafted free agent has accomplished over the course of his career is mind blowing and he has changed the way the game is played as well. Harrison contributed greatly to the Super Bowl runs made by the Steelers over the course of his career and we will all never forget the interception return for a touchdown against the Arizona Cardinals, as it will forever be etched in our memories.

Reality, however, is reality and several Steelers fans are unable to accept the fact that because of his age and knee, that Harrison is likely close to being done as a Steeler.

Since Harrison suffered his latest setback earlier this week, I have received a few emails wanting me to address the financial situation regarding the Steelers linebacker, as I guess several are finally seeing the reality of the situation. I have done this in previous post, but I will recap it once again here during the bye week. In addition, a few wanted to know why the Steelers just didn't release him at the beginning of the season if they thought the knee was going to be a problem.

To start things off, there was no way the Steelers were going to outright release Harrison at the start of the season. Injury liability aside, Harrison has a base salary this season of $5.565 million and carries a cap charge of $9.03 million. His signing bonus acceleration amount, the amount that comes forward as a dead money hit if were to be cut prior to this past June 1st, was $9.86 million. So cutting him prior to that date would have cost the Steelers an additional $860K in cap space.

Cutting Harrison after June 1st would have allowed the Steelers to only take his original 2012 scheduled amortized signing bonus amount as a dead hit this year with the left over amount being charged off in 2013 as dead money. That means that releasing him after June 1st, and prior to the start of the season, would have cost the Steelers $3.465 million this season in dead money with another $5.565 million being charged off in 2013 as dead money.

All of the above aside, the long term outlook for Harrison was not likely known until recently. Did they think there was a possibility that he would likely miss some games to start the season? Perhaps, but they also likely thought they would have him back on the field following the bye week. Regardless, there was no way that he was going to be released prior to the start of the season and it is foolish for people to even suggest that it was an option.

The reality at this point in time is that we don't really know what is going on with the left knee of Harrison. Could he make it back at some point this season and contribute? One can hope, but the latest setback this week certainly threw some cold water on the situation. We will have to see what head coach Mike Tomlin has to say about the situation on Tuesday.

Fast forward now. So what happens next season? Harrison is scheduled to earn a base salary of $6.57 million and count $10.035 million against the cap. Releasing him prior to June 1st creates a $4.93 dead money hit for 2013, but essentially saves the team a little over $5.1 million against the cap. While the move could come after June 1st, it would only create an additional savings of $1.465 million in 2013 by doing so, with that money becoming a dead hit in 2014.

Could Harrison agree to a pay cut? Sure, he could, but I really do not see that happening as it would have to be a $5.57 million cut in 2013 to make it worth while. If Harrison thinks he can still play at his best, he will not give that money back as he would likely rather just walk away from the game altogether.

For now, just pray that the left knee of Harrison gets better and that he is able to contribute at some point this season, and contribute at a level that we have become accustomed to seeing. That is all that is important right now as the financial end will ultimately take care of itself.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/09/james-harrison-salary-cap-liability-moving-forward-into-2013/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+SteelersDepotBlog+%28Steelers +Depot+Blog%29