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Livinginthe past
08-03-2006, 04:02 PM
A little light reading, along with some nice photos - Standard Issue for Sports Illustrated.

Plenty of debate on this one, I think.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0608/gallery.NFLclutchqbs/content.1.html

Bradshaw could be higher than 10, but then a QB with more 4th quarter comebacks is more clutch, or does it matter more that he won all them SB's?

Can't disagree with many of the placements myself and all 10 are worthy.

NM

PisnNapalm
08-03-2006, 04:43 PM
I'd think Bradshaw could be a couple palces higher, but all 10 are worthy of the list.

RoethlisBURGHer
08-03-2006, 05:24 PM
Good list,I hope one day we will see Ben on that list.

I doubt we'll ever see Peyton Manning on that list,lol.

Black@Gold Forever32
08-03-2006, 06:14 PM
Good list,I hope one day we will see Ben on that list.

I doubt we'll ever see Peyton Manning on that list,lol.

Don't let Colts fans see you write that. God I can't them. I work with a bunch of crazy Colts fans. Its a Peyton Manning love fest all day at work. It drives me nuts.

LambertIsGod58
08-03-2006, 07:35 PM
I think Bradshaw rates higher than a few or more of those guys...It doesn't get anymore clutch doing it in the big games (IE SB IX, X, XIII & XIV) Marino, Elway, Brady & Namath belong ahead....That's about it.

hardwork
08-03-2006, 07:54 PM
A little light reading, along with some nice photos - Standard Issue for Sports Illustrated.

Plenty of debate on this one, I think.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0608/gallery.NFLclutchqbs/content.1.html

Bradshaw could be higher than 10, but then a QB with more 4th quarter comebacks is more clutch, or does it matter more that he won all them SB's?

Can't disagree with many of the placements myself and all 10 are worthy.

NM



You certainly can't quibble with Montana at number 1. Unitas earned the number 2 position without a doubt. I do think that Brady should be over Elway though. Would the Broncos have won more SBs if Brady had been there as long as Elway was? I kinda think they would have. Elway couldn't get the SB until they had a superior running game. Brady has won two with just run of the mill backs. Only when Dillon showed up did Brady have a superior running game. That says to me that Brady has more clutch in him then Elway.

Livinginthe past
08-04-2006, 12:24 AM
You certainly can't quibble with Montana at number 1. Unitas earned the number 2 position without a doubt. I do think that Brady should be over Elway though. Would the Broncos have won more SBs if Brady had been there as long as Elway was? I kinda think they would have. Elway couldn't get the SB until they had a superior running game. Brady has won two with just run of the mill backs. Only when Dillon showed up did Brady have a superior running game. That says to me that Brady has more clutch in him then Elway.

I think Elways consistency in regular season 4th quarter comebacks has given him the edge here.

Also, I notice that players that are retired are always looked at a little more fondly than ones who are currently playing.

Brady has plenty of time left to get to a few more big games - 10-1 in the playoffs is a fantastic effort - hopefully it will be 13-1 after this season.

NM

MasterOfPuppets
08-04-2006, 02:11 AM
i don't know if marino is deserving of this list. sure he was a great qb and owns almost every record, but clutch in the playoffs is as clutch as clutch gets and marino could be considered a playoff choke like manning. i say drop dan and add roger stabauch. after all he was nick named captain comeback.


Staubach was one of the most exciting NFL players of the 1970's. Known as "Roger The Dodger" for his scrambling abilities, and also as "Captain Comeback" for his many fourth quarter heroics, Staubach had a penchant for leading scoring drives which would lead the Cowboys to improbable victories. He led his team to twenty-three come-from-behind victories in the fourth quarter, with 17 of these coming in the last two minutes.

hardwork
08-04-2006, 02:55 AM
I think Elways consistency in regular season 4th quarter comebacks has given him the edge here.

Also, I notice that players that are retired are always looked at a little more fondly than ones who are currently playing.

Brady has plenty of time left to get to a few more big games - 10-1 in the playoffs is a fantastic effort - hopefully it will be 13-1 after this season.

NM


Elway did make a lot of regular season comebacks. Can't dispute that.

Say, did you notice Namath's picture? His eyes look like headlights.

3 to be 4
08-04-2006, 06:19 PM
I think Bradshaw rates higher than a few or more of those guys...It doesn't get anymore clutch doing it in the big games (IE SB IX, X, XIII & XIV) Marino, Elway, Brady & Namath belong ahead....That's about it.

How can Marino be ahead of Bradshaw and Staubach?!?!? Even Namath, he did it one game! one year! i would have it
Montana
Unitas
Starr
Elway
Bradshaw
Brady
Staubach
Aikman

and then go from there

Haiku_Dirtt
08-04-2006, 07:48 PM
Don't let Colts fans see you write that. God I can't them. I work with a bunch of crazy Colts fans. Its a Peyton Manning love fest all day at work. It drives me nuts.

Damn I just realized where you live. Sorry to hear you're in Coltsville. The day after our playoff win must have been unforgettable - payback for a season worth of crap.

hardwork
08-04-2006, 08:04 PM
How can Marino be ahead of Bradshaw and Staubach?!?!? Even Namath, he did it one game! one year! i would have it
Montana
Unitas
Starr
Elway
Bradshaw
Brady
Staubach
Aikman

and then go from there


Been ridiing your motorcycle without a helmet again?

LambertIsGod58
08-05-2006, 12:52 PM
How can Marino be ahead of Bradshaw and Staubach?!?!? Even Namath, he did it one game! one year! i would have it
Montana
Unitas
Starr
Elway
Bradshaw
Brady
Staubach
Aikman

and then go from there


You ever hear of come from behind wins? Bradshaw doesn't rank to any of those guys.

3 to be 4
08-05-2006, 02:17 PM
where do i start. Hardwork, please throw me a bone! Exactly WHAT dont you agree with?
then ,you see, i can answer.

Lambert, Bradshaw didnt have to come behind too often so its not a fair comparison. But i go by what i saw in the biggest games he played in. The playoffs. 4 Super Bowls.
What is the long list of games that mattered where Marino changed the course of football history? 1984 SB he got hammered. 1985 AFCCG the Patriots stopped him. you can go on and on. Bradshaw has the hardware. And the SB MVPs. Cant get much more clutch than that.

LambertIsGod58
08-05-2006, 08:55 PM
where do i start. Hardwork, please throw me a bone! Exactly WHAT dont you agree with?
then ,you see, i can answer.

Lambert, Bradshaw didnt have to come behind too often so its not a fair comparison. But i go by what i saw in the biggest games he played in. The playoffs. 4 Super Bowls.
What is the long list of games that mattered where Marino changed the course of football history? 1984 SB he got hammered. 1985 AFCCG the Patriots stopped him. you can go on and on. Bradshaw has the hardware. And the SB MVPs. Cant get much more clutch than that.


I didnt' think that this thread was about playoff and Superbowl games....I thought it was about the most clutch players...

Black@Gold Forever32
08-05-2006, 09:02 PM
Damn I just realized where you live. Sorry to hear you're in Coltsville. The day after our playoff win must have been unforgettable - payback for a season worth of crap.

The Colts fans talked so much crap before the monday night game and talked so much after it. It drove me crazy. But after the playoff game I took my Terrible Towel into work and waved it all around for the Colts fans to see. It was great. They couldn't say a thing.

But you won't believe the stuff I hear about Ben and his accident. The Colts fans that I work with constantly crack jokes about Ben. I know they are just trying to piss me off. I just reply Super Bowl champs and they shut up. I also say Ben 1 and Peyton 0. For all their talk about Manning being the best QB ever. Ben has the ring and Peyton doesn't.

BBC
08-05-2006, 10:37 PM
I didnt' think that this thread was about playoff and Superbowl games....I thought it was about the most clutch players...

Playing well in playoff and Super Bowl games is part of the definition of being a clutch player. I'm not exactly sure what you've got against Bradshaw, but you obviously want to find anything possible to take away from him. I don't understand it :hunch:

hardwork
08-06-2006, 01:34 AM
where do i start. Hardwork, please throw me a bone! Exactly WHAT dont you agree with?
then ,you see, i can answer.

Lambert, Bradshaw didnt have to come behind too often so its not a fair comparison. But i go by what i saw in the biggest games he played in. The playoffs. 4 Super Bowls.
What is the long list of games that mattered where Marino changed the course of football history? 1984 SB he got hammered. 1985 AFCCG the Patriots stopped him. you can go on and on. Bradshaw has the hardware. And the SB MVPs. Cant get much more clutch than that.


I see it the way black and gold does, 3 to be 4. I liked Bradshaw but he just wasn't like a Tom Brady in the clutch. I don't think of Bradshaw marching down the field with a minute 30 on the clock and his eyes on fire, like Brady. He wasn't that kind of QB. He had a lot guts and would hang in there no matter who or how many were rushing him. For that I always liked him. But guys like Montana, Unitas, and Brady, are a different breed.

MasterOfPuppets
08-06-2006, 02:30 AM
Table 1. Top 10 quarterbacks at comebacks since 1996
Rank Quarterback Wins Losses
1 Jake Plummer 19 28
2 Peyton Manning 19 29
2 Vinny Testaverde 19 29
4 Tom Brady 13 8
5 Jon Kitna 15 23
6 Kerry Collins 17 30
7 Donovan McNabb 12 15
8 Marc Bulger 10 5
9 Jake Delhomme 10 12
9 Jay Fiedler 10 12

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2006/06/26/ramblings/stat-analysis/3978/

brady isn't even in the top 3 in the last 10 years as far as come from behind wins go,so i'm assumng his high ranking in the greatest pole has something to do with post season victorys. so why is marino on there and staubach isn't?

Cape Cod Steel Head
08-06-2006, 08:22 AM
Why is Nammath on this list. Yes he won one Super Bowl ,but it wasn't a come from behind win, and he never made it back.

LambertIsGod58
08-06-2006, 09:10 AM
Playing well in playoff and Super Bowl games is part of the definition of being a clutch player. I'm not exactly sure what you've got against Bradshaw, but you obviously want to find anything possible to take away from him. I don't understand it :hunch:


First of all, I have NOTHING against Bradshaw.....He was great. I just don't think he was as great as some homer fans think he was. He was a rookie in 1970...couldn't nail down the starting job until 1976 or later? He didn't throw for his first 300yd game until 1978? Yeah, I know they had a great run game. So I guess he was great at handing off the ball. For most of his career. 28,000 Passing Yards in 14 years? 212TD's to 210INT's? Big game play definite yes.....And if you read my first take on this thread, you would see that I put Bradshaw higher than his #10 or #11, whatever it was.

BBC
08-06-2006, 09:30 AM
First of all, I have NOTHING against Bradshaw.....He was great. I just don't think he was as great as some homer fans think he was. He was a rookie in 1970...couldn't nail down the starting job until 1976 or later? He didn't throw for his first 300yd game until 1978? Yeah, I know they had a great run game. So I guess he was great at handing off the ball. For most of his career. 28,000 Passing Yards in 14 years? 212TD's to 210INT's? Big game play definite yes.....And if you read my first take on this thread, you would see that I put Bradshaw higher than his #10 or #11, whatever it was.

You can look at his stats, I really don't care about them. He was a leader for the Steelers, you don't win 4 Super Bowls by just handing the ball off. He was one of the most clutch players in NFL history, considering his performances when everything was on the line. Bradshaw actually got the starting job in 1971. He lost it temporarily to Joe Gilliam in 1974, but took it back during the regular season. He didn't develop into a great quarterback until around 1975, but 5 years to develop into a great player is what it was like back then (especially at the position of quarterback). Players like Ben Roethlisberger were few and far between. Bradshaw won NFL MVP in 1978, I don't think the voters gave it to him for his great job giving the ball to Franco. He was indeed as great as some fans think.

LambertIsGod58
08-06-2006, 10:08 AM
You can look at his stats, I really don't care about them. He was a leader for the Steelers, you don't win 4 Super Bowls by just handing the ball off. He was one of the most clutch players in NFL history, considering his performances when everything was on the line. Bradshaw actually got the starting job in 1971. He lost it temporarily to Joe Gilliam in 1974, but took it back during the regular season. He didn't develop into a great quarterback until around 1975, but 5 years to develop into a great player is what it was like back then (especially at the position of quarterback). Players like Ben Roethlisberger were few and far between. Bradshaw won NFL MVP in 1978, I don't think the voters gave it to him for his great job giving the ball to Franco. He was indeed as great as some fans think.


He won Superbowls IX & X by just handing off the ball....and as my take stated "he didn't nail down the starting positon until 1976 or later....I didn't say that he never started.

BBC
08-06-2006, 10:58 AM
He won Superbowls IX & X by just handing off the ball....and as my take stated "he didn't nail down the starting positon until 1976 or later....I didn't say that he never started.

Super Bowl IX he threw the touchdown pass to put the game away. Beyond that, he didn't do much, but that is the only Super Bowl he didn't do much in. I wouldn't exactly call 209 yards and 2 touchdowns with 0 interceptions 'just handing the ball off'. Even if it were, he was Super Bowl MVP twice, NFL MVP once. A 4 time Super Bowl Champion. 8 time AFC Central Champion. 3 Time Pro Bowler. How could you possibly tell me he isn't as great as some say?

LambertIsGod58
08-06-2006, 11:26 AM
I'm am gonna end it with....you've got your opinion and I've got mine. You are entitled to the image you want to keep of Bradshaw....as I am with the one I want.

Lyn
08-07-2006, 02:17 PM
Staubach was one of the most exciting NFL players of the 1970's. Known as "Roger The Dodger" for his scrambling abilities, and also as "Captain Comeback" for his many fourth quarter heroics, Staubach had a penchant for leading scoring drives which would lead the Cowboys to improbable victories. He led his team to twenty-three come-from-behind victories in the fourth quarter, with 17 of these coming in the last two minutes.[/QUOTE]

I know I'm late getting in on this, but I had to pipe in. The fact that Marino doesn't have a
ring has no bearing on this list. If 37 come from behind 4th quarter victories isn't clutch,
I don't know what is. It is hardly Dan Marino's fault that his teams were flawed (no running game most of the time, average at best defense many years). In fact, having him ranked 7th was, I thought, too low, particularly with Elway ranked #3. True, Marino didn't win two Super Bowls like Elway did, but likewise, he didn't lose three of them, either. I could see removing Namath from the list to make room for Staubach, and I don't think there would have been many who would have argued.

Because there is only room for 10, and to my mind, Staubach and Stabler belong there. They were the elite QB's (along with Bradshaw) during the 70's. By far, Stabler scared me more than any other QB of that era. Even with the Steel Curtain, I was never comfortable with a lead against him. He was an ugly version of Joe Montana. As for Staubach, I suggest that anyone not familiarwith him (i.e. not as old as some of us) to check out

http://www.answers.com/topic/roger-staubach

If Jackie Smith catches that 3rd down gimme in the end zone, we're talking three rings for him instead of two. Also, bear in mind that his NFL career started when he was 27, four years after he graduated from the Naval Academy.

I love Marino as a QB, and I believe that he would be wearing a ring or three if the Steelers drafted him, but he doesn' have a ring, so that has to be considered in this discussion. It isn't so much "he doesn't belong" as it is "Stabler and Staubach belong". I haven't seen Unitas or Starr in their prime, and Graham was long gone before I started watching, so I can't comment on them. However, I can't see taking any of the others off the list. Staubach has to be on there Stabler is worth a discussion, but I'm still afraid of him....

I have to say something about these lists. I know it gives someone a job, however, in fairness to all other NFL qbs who do not reside on this list, I say "Thank you, gentlemen for all the hours of good entertainment showing all NFL fans your athletic ability, amazing talent and self discipline." I tip my hat to any one who has ever, trained for and played the game of football, at any level, Pop Warner, Middle School, Junior Varsity, High School Varsity, College or Pro

MasterOfPuppets
08-07-2006, 03:33 PM
Staubach was one of the most exciting NFL players of the 1970's. Known as "Roger The Dodger" for his scrambling abilities, and also as "Captain Comeback" for his many fourth quarter heroics, Staubach had a penchant for leading scoring drives which would lead the Cowboys to improbable victories. He led his team to twenty-three come-from-behind victories in the fourth quarter, with 17 of these coming in the last two minutes.

I know I'm late getting in on this, but I had to pipe in. The fact that Marino doesn't have a
ring has no bearing on this list. If 37 come from behind 4th quarter victories isn't clutch,
I don't know what is. It is hardly Dan Marino's fault that his teams were flawed (no running game most of the time, average at best defense many years). In fact, having him ranked 7th was, I thought, too low, particularly with Elway ranked #3. True, Marino didn't win two Super Bowls like Elway did, but likewise, he didn't lose three of them, either. I could see removing Namath from the list to make room for Staubach, and I don't think there would have been many who would have argued.

Because there is only room for 10, and to my mind, Staubach and Stabler belong there. They were the elite QB's (along with Bradshaw) during the 70's. By far, Stabler scared me more than any other QB of that era. Even with the Steel Curtain, I was never comfortable with a lead against him. He was an ugly version of Joe Montana. As for Staubach, I suggest that anyone not familiarwith him (i.e. not as old as some of us) to check out

http://www.answers.com/topic/roger-staubach

If Jackie Smith catches that 3rd down gimme in the end zone, we're talking three rings for him instead of two. Also, bear in mind that his NFL career started when he was 27, four years after he graduated from the Naval Academy.

I love Marino as a QB, and I believe that he would be wearing a ring or three if the Steelers drafted him, but he doesn' have a ring, so that has to be considered in this discussion. It isn't so much "he doesn't belong" as it is "Stabler and Staubach belong". I haven't seen Unitas or Starr in their prime, and Graham was long gone before I started watching, so I can't comment on them. However, I can't see taking any of the others off the list. Staubach has to be on there Stabler is worth a discussion, but I'm still afraid of him....

I have to say something about these lists. I know it gives someone a job, however, in fairness to all other NFL qbs who do not reside on this list, I say "Thank you, gentlemen for all the hours of good entertainment showing all NFL fans your athletic ability, amazing talent and self discipline." I tip my hat to any one who has ever, trained for and played the game of football, at any level, Pop Warner, Middle School, Junior Varsity, High School Varsity, College or Pro[/QUOTE]

thats why i can't figure out this list. if they are going by come from behind alone then elway should be one, marino 2, etc. but obviously post season play is figured in heavily givin bradys high ranking. if you look at these stats,brady is only ranked fourth in the last 10 yrs...

Table 1. Top 10 quarterbacks at comebacks since 1996
Rank Quarterback Wins Losses
1 Jake Plummer 19 28
2 Peyton Manning 19 29
2 Vinny Testaverde 19 29
4 Tom Brady 13 8
5 Jon Kitna 15 23
6 Kerry Collins 17 30
7 Donovan McNabb 12 15
8 Marc Bulger 10 5
9 Jake Delhomme 10 12
9 Jay Fiedler 10 12

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/200...analysis/3978/

so why is brady there and not manning??? because he won superbowls...so why should staubach be there instead of marino??? because he won superbowls...

Livinginthe past
08-07-2006, 03:42 PM
[thats why i can't figure out this list. if they are going by come from behind alone then elway should be one, marino 2, etc. but obviously post season play is figured in heavily givin bradys high ranking. if you look at these stats,brady is only ranked fourth in the last 10 yrs...

Table 1. Top 10 quarterbacks at comebacks since 1996
Rank Quarterback Wins Losses
1 Jake Plummer 19 28
2 Peyton Manning 19 29
2 Vinny Testaverde 19 29
4 Tom Brady 13 8
5 Jon Kitna 15 23
6 Kerry Collins 17 30
7 Donovan McNabb 12 15
8 Marc Bulger 10 5
9 Jake Delhomme 10 12
9 Jay Fiedler 10 12

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/200...analysis/3978/

so why is brady there and not manning??? because he won superbowls...so why should staubach be there instead of marino??? because he won superbowls...

How about because Brady has a great conversion rate?

Its great that Testaverde completed 19 4th quarter comebacks - but he failed on 29 other occasions.

Bulger (67%) was the only other QB on that list who has a better comeback success rate than Brady (62%).

NM

MasterOfPuppets
08-07-2006, 03:51 PM
How about because Brady has a great conversion rate?

Its great that Testaverde completed 19 4th quarter comebacks - but he failed on 29 other occasions.

Bulger (67%) was the only other QB on that list who has a better comeback success rate than Brady (62%).

NM
which further proves my theory, otherwise bulger should be on the list.

Lyn
08-07-2006, 03:56 PM
Just like the Heisman..........you have to be on a winning team. That is why I don't like these lists. They take an individual and rate him not only on his own merit but also on the failures and shortcomings of the supporting cast. That is my point.

Livinginthe past
08-07-2006, 04:12 PM
which further proves my theory, otherwise bulger should be on the list.

OK, fair point - its probably a combination of a number of factors.

1. How reliant is the teams success upon the QB's performance.

2. How many comebacks have been achieved.

3. And how important have those games been.

I think that the QB's that have scored well either had their team consistently rely upon them - Marino, or the QB pulled some great comebacks in huge games - Brady.

I guess, its up for grabs and down to each persons preference - thats why it was such a great offseason article.

NM

bratsinmybelly
08-07-2006, 08:05 PM
Marino or Namath over Staubach is utter blasphemy in my opinion. Super Bowls, ladies and gentlemen. It aint rocket science. For some reason, there is always a Dolphin trumpeter out there who puts them among the league's elite. Marino and his 50,000+ yards generated mostly by no running game and a boatload of isotoners is paraded around as the show pony. Forget it. Namath is always on everyone's radar because of one game and a fur coat. Forget it. Give me Bradshaw or Staubach in a Super Bowl over these guys any day of the week. I'll take Marino for punt, pass, & kick & gimmie Namath if I'm trying to get a date with Suzie Kolber!!!! I know Marino is a Pitt native so I'm not trying to hate on him too much, this whole Dolphin thing just kills me.

Lyn
08-08-2006, 08:52 AM
Marino or Namath over Staubach is utter blasphemy in my opinion. Super Bowls, ladies and gentlemen. It aint rocket science. For some reason, there is always a Dolphin trumpeter out there who puts them among the league's elite. Marino and his 50,000+ yards generated mostly by no running game and a boatload of isotoners is paraded around as the show pony. Forget it. Namath is always on everyone's radar because of one game and a fur coat. Forget it. Give me Bradshaw or Staubach in a Super Bowl over these guys any day of the week. I'll take Marino for punt, pass, & kick & gimmie Namath if I'm trying to get a date with Suzie Kolber!!!! I know Marino is a Pitt native so I'm not trying to hate on him too much, this whole Dolphin thing just kills me.


Great post and I agree on the Dolphin comments. Also on Staubach, there is NO excuse for him not being on that SI list. Staubach also won 2 superbowls. Championships DO mean something to me and to everyone else. The argument was made that Marino didn't lose three SB's like Elway did, but that means that Elway got his team to 5 of them. Dapper Dan made it to one. But my point was simply say you have a phenominal player like Marino and his supporting cast sucks like Martinos' did, that has a definite reaction to the manner in which people who compile these lists rate the phenominal player (like Marino).

tony hipchest
08-09-2006, 06:32 PM
How about because Brady has a great conversion rate?

Its great that Testaverde completed 19 4th quarter comebacks - but he failed on 29 other occasions.

Bulger (67%) was the only other QB on that list who has a better comeback success rate than Brady (62%).

NMi bet ben has a better conversion rate. (although hes not on that list yet)

and bradshaw has 7 rings. his biggest games and best play were when it really counted.

oh, and did i mention he called his own plays?

MattsMe
08-09-2006, 08:58 PM
i bet ben has a better conversion rate. (although hes not on that list yet)

and bradshaw has 7 rings. his biggest games and best play were when it really counted.

oh, and did i mention he called his own plays?

He also has the highest yards per attempt of all SB QB's.

Livinginthe past
08-10-2006, 02:37 AM
i bet ben has a better conversion rate. (although hes not on that list yet)

and bradshaw has 7 rings. his biggest games and best play were when it really counted.

oh, and did i mention he called his own plays?

If you are going to 'bet' then how about doing some research and telling us about his conversion rate.

The Steelers are notorious for grinding out victories as front runners, not making dashing comebacks.

Thats just a perception though - you can swiftly put me right with some cold hard facts.

Oh, and I can only imagine the intense complexity of Bradshaws playbook.

I can tell he's a smart guy - he knows you should wear head based protection when travelling at 200mph on a motorbike.

NM

tony hipchest
08-10-2006, 10:14 AM
Oh, and I can only imagine the intense complexity of Bradshaws playbook.

I can tell he's a smart guy - he knows you should wear head based protection when travelling at 200mph on a motorbike.

NMfootball doesnt need to be "complex". especially when you dont have to design whole offenses to compensate for a qb who lacks a strong arm or a lack of a running game. if 25% of your passing plays are long handoffs then sure, there will be more passing plays. you see, bradshaw could get the ball 40 yards downfield through the air, without a complex 10 yd toss play that relied on the receiver to get the other 30. he relied more on his skills and knowing when to call what play rather than the system.

Livinginthe past
08-10-2006, 10:40 AM
football doesnt need to be "complex". especially when you dont have to design whole offenses to compensate for a qb who lacks a strong arm or a lack of a running game. if 25% of your passing plays are long handoffs then sure, there will be more passing plays. you see, bradshaw could get the ball 40 yards downfield through the air, without a complex 10 yd toss play that relied on the receiver to get the other 30. he relied more on his skills and knowing when to call what play rather than the system.

It doesnt detract from the fact that learning a playbook that consists of minimal varations being less than impressive as an achievement - probably right up there with Lyn's 8th grade test from the locker room thread.

It must be somewhat of a handicap to have a QB who can't throw the ball 40 yards through the air.

Luckily the QB of my favourite team, Tom Brady, can throw the ball 53 yards and have it land right on the money - and in a pretty big game too!

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=1727019294519787491&q=patriots+pittsburgh

Its about 20 seconds in if you want to check out.

Boy, what a sweet pass.

NM

tony hipchest
08-10-2006, 11:06 AM
It must be somewhat of a handicap to have a QB who can't throw the ball 40 yards through the air.

Luckily the QB of my favourite team, Tom Brady, can throw the ball 53 yards and have it land right on the money - and in a pretty big game too!



NM ever hear the phrase "even a broken clock is right twice a day"?

my favorite qb could make those throws consistantly. infact theres sb highlight films and clips dedicated to those types of throws from bradshaw. every qb who is on a professional team should be able to complete that pass atleast once in their career.

Livinginthe past
08-10-2006, 11:38 AM
ever hear the phrase "even a broken clock is right twice a day"?

my favorite qb could make those throws consistantly. infact theres sb highlight films and clips dedicated to those types of throws from bradshaw. every qb who is on a professional team should be able to complete that pass atleast once in their career.

What are we doing now....swapping hackneyed cliches?

53 yards - in an AFCCG - the pressure, the accuracy, the sheer balls to land that on the money - quite something im sure you'll agree.

Bradshaw certainly has some impressive stats on his side (even more impressive than his playbook!)

1974 - sure its not every QB that can go 9/14 with 96 yards to their name and still win - well he certainly seems ummmm 'efficient'

I can only imagine the highlights package from this destruction of the Minnesota DB corps!

1975 - Another world beating 9 completions - but a whopping 200+ yards this time - tell me this guy made the pro-bowl. Heady stuff.

1978 - Finally a SB performance worthy of the title.

1979 - Uh oh. Looks like Bradshaw got a little carried away passing it. More interceptions than TD's in this one.

Hey at least 1 good SB performance is something to remember Bradshaw by - just have to try and forget those other 3 eh?

I think ill go check out that 53 yard bomb by Brady again.........

NM

Lyn
08-10-2006, 11:52 AM
To me Staubach not being on that list makes the list a total wash.

tony hipchest
08-10-2006, 12:04 PM
1975 - Another world beating 9 completions - but a whopping 200+ yards this time - tell me this guy made the pro-bowl. Heady stuff..

i guess if he HAD to throw it as many times as brady did in his sb that would be about 500 yds.



1979 - Uh oh. Looks like Bradshaw got a little carried away passing it. More interceptions than TD's in this one.

you mean the sb where he proved he could overcome a few mistakes and still lead his team to victory, winning the sb mvp to boot?

i think you should watch the clip of ben watson running down champ bailey at the 1. much more impressive than bradys little 53 yd toss.

MattsMe
08-10-2006, 12:11 PM
Although this is probably pointless, here's something interesting:

THE LEGENDS
These are the quarterbacks who, time and again, put up the biggest numbers in the biggest game. Eighteen quarterbacks have played in two or more Super Bowls. Our six Super Bowl legends have the top six Super Bowl passer ratings of all time. Not so coincidentally, these six QBs ? the most prolific passers in Super Bowl history ? have won nearly half of all the 39 Super Bowls ever played. They are a sterling 18-0 on football?s biggest stage. Bottom line: Great passers and clutch performers will lead you to victory each and every time. The career Super Bowl passer ratings of The Legends range from 99.9 to 127.8.

Bottom line: On the biggest stage, when it matters the most, Bradshaw's average SB passer rating is 112.8. Brady's is 99.9. That fact cannot be disputed. Bradshaw's SB rating is even more impressive when you consider that he played two of his SB's in the dead-ball era.

http://coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=691&Category=11

Livinginthe past
08-10-2006, 12:14 PM
i guess if he HAD to throw it as many times as brady did in his sb that would be about 500 yds..

So despite the fact Brady had no help from his running game - he still got it done?

Tell me more Tony!

This Brady guy sounds better and better the more you tell me about him.

Bradshaw = Trent Dilfer

Brady > Trent Dilfer + Bradshaw





you mean the sb where he proved he could overcome a few mistakes and still lead his team to victory, winning the sb mvp to boot?

i think you should watch the clip of ben watson running down champ bailey at the 1. much more impressive than bradys little 53 yd toss.

Wow SB MVP's? - wish Brady had a couple of them to his credit.

The MVP commitee must have had an off day - 3 INT's makes you Brett Favre on a bad day not the most valuable player on the field.

NM

MattsMe
08-10-2006, 12:41 PM
Who's the better QB? Who knows? Different eras, different rules, etc. make it impossible to prove either way. After all, Bradshaw had the benefit of playing two of his SB's in the dead-ball era, when it was sooo much easier to score and get good QB stats. :rolleyes: Seriously though, we can't really say who's better without relying on opinions.

Now for the next question: Who's the better SB quarterback? Gosh, that's a tough one. All we have to go on is indisputable passer ratings in the SB.

Bradshaw's career SB passer rating: 112.8
Brady's career SB passer rating: 99.9

tony hipchest
08-10-2006, 12:51 PM
So despite the fact Brady had no help from his running game - he still got it done?

Tell me more Tony!

This Brady guy sounds better and better the more you tell me about him.

Bradshaw = Trent Dilfer

Brady > Trent Dilfer + Bradshaw







Wow SB MVP's? - wish Brady had a couple of them to his credit.

The MVP commitee must have had an off day - 3 INT's makes you Brett Favre on a bad day not the most valuable player on the field.

NMi dont think theres much to say after the numbers mattsme provided but i will address the ludicrous assertion that bradshaw = dilfer. you saing bradys 3 sb's are > than bradshaw and dilfers 5?

you gotta use someone better than dilfer. like if i say steve young > brady that would be true. but dilfer = bradshaw?

actually a point can be made that brady and dilfer have much more in common: both system quarterbacks who needed their coordinators to draw up plays and tell them what to do over a headset. that brady sure is a heady thinking man huh?

maybe the mvp commitee who awarded bradshaw is the same one who snubbed harrison and vinatieri for an mvp award? or maybe they just realized they had witnessed the greatest and most clutch qb in sb history at that time. 4 sb's in 6 years. not even brady or montana could match that feat. even the greatest individual steelers team of all time (76) couldnt win it all without their fearless leader, otherwise it would be 5 of 6.

Livinginthe past
08-10-2006, 02:29 PM
i dont think theres much to say after the numbers mattsme provided but i will address the ludicrous assertion that bradshaw = dilfer. you saing bradys 3 sb's are > than bradshaw and dilfers 5?

you gotta use someone better than dilfer. like if i say steve young > brady that would be true. but dilfer = bradshaw?

actually a point can be made that brady and dilfer have much more in common: both system quarterbacks who needed their coordinators to draw up plays and tell them what to do over a headset. that brady sure is a heady thinking man huh?

maybe the mvp commitee who awarded bradshaw is the same one who snubbed harrison and vinatieri for an mvp award? or maybe they just realized they had witnessed the greatest and most clutch qb in sb history at that time. 4 sb's in 6 years. not even brady or montana could match that feat. even the greatest individual steelers team of all time (76) couldnt win it all without their fearless leader, otherwise it would be 5 of 6.

Excuses , excuses Tony.

Bradshaw has signed off with 4 SB's - not 5 - Brady has 3 and has potential for many more.

Brady calls his own plays - try and keep up.

NM

tony hipchest
08-10-2006, 03:01 PM
Brady calls his own plays

NM

that explains why he chokes in the big games now that weiss left. but atleast brady can go into the hall of fame on that "potential" you mention.

4>3 and the sb passer rating mattsme was kind enough to post doesnt lie.

brady = system qb = j. theismann, + d. williams + m. rypien

MattsMe
08-10-2006, 04:26 PM
that explains why he chokes in the big games now that weiss left. but atleast brady can go into the hall of fame on that "potential" you mention.

4>3 and the sb passer rating mattsme was kind enough to post doesnt lie.

brady = system qb = j. theismann, + d. williams + m. rypien

Haven't you figured it out? Rings only count when comparing Bilichick to Cowher, or Brady to Ben.

And since the Bradshaw vs. Brady thing was exposed (no response on that one), that doesn't count anymore either! We have now moved on to comparing what one player has done, to what another might do. I guess future potential is one area where poor Terry can't compete.

The truth is, Brady may someday eclipse Bradshaw, it's possible and I have no problem admitting it. But it doesn't mean a thing until he does.

CantStop85
08-10-2006, 05:37 PM
Haven't you figured it out? Rings only count when comparing Bilichick to Cowher, or Brady to Ben.
And potential only counts when comparing Willie Parker to Rudi Johnson. :sofunny:

And since the Bradshaw vs. Brady thing was exposed (no response on that one), that doesn't count anymore either! We have now moved on to comparing what one player has done, to what another might do. I guess future potential is one area where poor Terry can't compete.

The truth is, Brady may someday eclipse Bradshaw, it's possible and I have no problem admitting it. But it doesn't mean a thing until he does.
At this point, I would say Bradshaw has the edge over Brady simply because of his superbowl performances, however I fully expect Brady to eclipse Bradshaw by the time he's through.

Stillers#1
08-10-2006, 06:11 PM
What are we doing now....swapping hackneyed cliches?

53 yards - in an AFCCG - the pressure, the accuracy, the sheer balls to land that on the money - quite something im sure you'll agree.

Bradshaw certainly has some impressive stats on his side (even more impressive than his playbook!)

1974 - sure its not every QB that can go 9/14 with 96 yards to their name and still win - well he certainly seems ummmm 'efficient'

I can only imagine the highlights package from this destruction of the Minnesota DB corps!

1975 - Another world beating 9 completions - but a whopping 200+ yards this time - tell me this guy made the pro-bowl. Heady stuff.

1978 - Finally a SB performance worthy of the title.

1979 - Uh oh. Looks like Bradshaw got a little carried away passing it. More interceptions than TD's in this one.

Hey at least 1 good SB performance is something to remember Bradshaw by - just have to try and forget those other 3 eh?

I think ill go check out that 53 yard bomb by Brady again.........

NM

Ya, you got a decent point LITP, but can you tell me the name of the Steeler's placekicker in those games? I bet if you looked it up you could, but since Bradshaw didn't need a kicker to close out his game for him, it's not common knowledge.

I know your MVP isn't Tom Brady, it's Adam Viniateri, and now you don't have him anymore. Hopefully this year Brady can get the job done himself.

tony hipchest
08-10-2006, 06:15 PM
I know your MVP isn't Tom Brady, it's Adam Viniateri, and now you don't have him anymore. Hopefully this year Brady can get the job done himself. i hope the team flops and proves the stingy owner wrong. s. pioli isnt putting too much into this for his last hurrah before taking over the giants job. and belichick was the MVP. he farted on vinatieris foot before every big kick. what a genius!

Stillers#1
08-10-2006, 06:17 PM
OH, and in my book, Namath belongs where he is on the list. How many QB's these days will go out and GUARANTEE A SB VICTORY, none, bottom line. Not only did he say they were gonna win, he made sure they won, that, ladies and gentlemen, is clutch. Even more so than Brady or Bradshaw.

MattsMe
08-10-2006, 06:38 PM
And potential only counts when comparing Willie Parker to Rudi Johnson. :sofunny:


At this point, I would say Bradshaw has the edge over Brady simply because of his superbowl performances, however I fully expect Brady to eclipse Bradshaw by the time he's through.

Willie and Rudi? I have an idea why you would bring that up, but it's a real stretch considering I've never compared the two, and I'm the one whose post you replied to.

It's fine that you expect Brady to eclipse Bradshaw, but that doesn't matter. I disagree, and it doesn't matter either.

I don't think he'll pass him, and it has nothing to do with opinion, and everything to do with facts. To pass Bradshaw's career SB rating, he would have to do one of two things. Win another SB with a 154.7 passer rating, or win two more with an average of 133.8 in those two. Neither of those is impossible, but does anyone really think he has more than a 50/50 shot at doing either one? (He could also win three more with a slightly lower rating, but not even the biggest homer could expect that.)

Bottom line, we don't know what the future holds. But considering what Brady would have to do, not to mention free agency, injuries, etc., does anyone truly believe he has more than a 50% chance?

CantStop85
08-10-2006, 07:27 PM
Willie and Rudi? I have an idea why you would bring that up, but it's a real stretch considering I've never compared the two, and I'm the one whose post you replied to.

It's fine that you expect Brady to eclipse Bradshaw, but that doesn't matter. I disagree, and it doesn't matter either.

I don't think he'll pass him, and it has nothing to do with opinion, and everything to do with facts. To pass Bradshaw's career SB rating, he would have to do one of two things. Win another SB with a 154.7 passer rating, or win two more with an average of 133.8 in those two. Neither of those is impossible, but does anyone really think he has more than a 50/50 shot at doing either one? (He could also win three more with a slightly lower rating, but not even the biggest homer could expect that.)

Bottom line, we don't know what the future holds. But considering what Brady would have to do, not to mention free agency, injuries, etc., does anyone truly believe he has more than a 50% chance?
I wasn't directing that Willie and Rudi thing at you of course, I just had to throw it in there for Tony. :blurp:

I think Brady has a decent shot at attaining one or more additional superbowl rings, he still has a lot left in the tank and it's always possible he could end up with another team in the right situation late in his career. I think Brady could very well exceed Bradshaw's career statistics...although maybe not the number of superbowl rings. I'm not saying Brady is going to blow Bradshaw out of the water, I just think he has the chance to match and maybe even exceed Bradshaw's accomplishments (at least some of them) before it's all said and done.

LambertIsGod58
08-10-2006, 07:39 PM
Ya, you got a decent point LITP, but can you tell me the name of the Steeler's placekicker in those games? I bet if you looked it up you could, but since Bradshaw didn't need a kicker to close out his game for him, it's not common knowledge.

I know your MVP isn't Tom Brady, it's Adam Viniateri, and now you don't have him anymore. Hopefully this year Brady can get the job done himself.



Kicker was Roy Gerela.....#10