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maddog78
10-13-2012, 10:23 AM
We've seen the numbers with and without Troy. 14 PPG vs 21 PPG. Basically, a #1 defense vs a middle of the pack defense.

We've also seen what happens when Clark is missing in Denver for two straight years. What does everyone say after those games?

"Clark allows Troy to freelance."

Freelance. In other words, work outside of the scheme. We are most successful when our HOF safety is allowed to play his own game outside of the scheme.

So, what does that say about "the scheme"?

:noidea:

There are 18 defenses allowing fewer than our 23 PPG. All of them are missing Troy Polamalu.

Goldsteel86
10-13-2012, 10:34 AM
We've seen the numbers with and without Troy. 14 PPG vs 21 PPG. Basically, a #1 defense vs a middle of the pack defense.

We've also seen what happens when Clark is missing in Denver for two straight years. What does everyone say after those games?

"Clark allows Troy to freelance."

Freelance. In other words, work outside of the scheme. We are most successful when our HOF safety is allowed to play his own game outside of the scheme.

So, what does that say about "the scheme"?

:noidea:

There are 18 defenses allowing fewer than our 23 PPG. All of them are missing Troy Polamalu.

"Scheme"???? There really is no "Scheme" what there is , is the ability to play down to your opponent, that is what the Steelers have done and are doing!

uclkyle
10-15-2012, 12:47 AM
I'm not sure if the scheme is necessarily the problem. Bottom line, nobody on that defense is producing and there is no leadership. Who is on the defense? An aging Harrison, Keisel, Hamptonn? Foote stinks, a career back-up. Ike is God-awful. You can't really count Troy, his best injury free days are probably gone. Ziggy Hood is officially a bust. I thought the signing of Lamar Woodley to a long-term deal would be disastrous. I like Clark and Keenan Lewis, thats about all we have. Another note on Woodley......he's REALLY good at getting sacks on first down in the first quarter. When we need a big stop in a critical situation, he's nowhere to be found.

Edman
10-15-2012, 02:04 AM
Troy really hid the REAL GLARING problems with our Defense for years. When one guy is the fine line between a Defense being good and subpar, it isn't all that good a Defense. Without him, Lebeau is once again exposed for the fraud that he truly is. The "Genius" turns into a simpleton without his Superman.

tony hipchest
10-15-2012, 02:11 AM
bill parcells relied on lawrence taylor.

mike holmgren relied on reggie white.

bill walsh relied on players such as joe montana, jerry rice, and ronnie lott.

mike ditka needed walter payton.

belichick relies on tom brady.

the ravens NEVER win a SB w/o ray lewis.

troy polamalu is in the same conversation as ALL of these great players.

GET OVER IT!!!

im sure there is a similar thread this "new" thread needs to be merged with. :jerkit:

maddog... i know youre mad, and i know youre a dog, but just because you have a thought, doesnt mean it hasnt been thunk and already being discussed i.e. just because you had a thought doesnt mean it needs its very own thread.

please post your rants in other threads with the same thoughts (many of which you have already started).

thanks. :thumbsup:

Bayz101
10-15-2012, 02:15 AM
bill parcells relied on lawrence taylor.

mike holmgren relied on reggie white.

bill walsh relied on players such as joe montana, jerry rice, and ronnie lott.

mike ditka needed walter payton.

belichick relies on tom brady.

the ravens NEVER win a SB w/o ray lewis.

troy polamalu is in the same conversation as ALL of these great players.

GET OVER IT!!!

:thumbsup:

Rick5895
10-15-2012, 04:47 AM
A lot of these threads are the same. We are 2-3 and we are done, seasons over, we stink and on and on and on. Yes it does look somewhat bleak. But I beleive we will over come and finish 10-6. Look at the past, 1995 we were what 4-4-1 after 9 games, we went to the super bowl and if not for Neil O'Donell we would have won that game. 2005 we barely snuck into the playoffs and won the superbowl. Our losses have come down to 3 or so plays in the losses that could 've have been wins, dropped pics, blocked punts, dropped passes etc. To those who think we stink because we didn't blowout the Raiders, then Atlanta at 6-0 must stink because they barely won, this season is very topsy turvey, look at yesterdays games, Giants blow out of the Niners, Packers
blowout of the Texans, Suckhawks beating the Cheats, Browns beating the Bungles etc
Everyone needs to relax the season is far from over after 5 games.
Saying you are a real fan because you think you are a realist and suggest this is the worst team in football DOESN"T make you a real fan, it actually makes you a fairweather fan.
I am sure there was lots of action since Thursday night in emergency rooms all over the country with so called Steeler fans breaking ankles jumping off the bandwagon.

steelfury02
10-15-2012, 06:54 AM
it isn't just 2-3, there is a disturbing trend in general with this team, both in terms of their lack of mental toughness on the road, against any team as of late, and in the severe drop off in winning at the line of scrimmage, which in turn, makes everything else look bad, on both sides of the ball.

It doesn't help that the O is in transition, and yes, injuries suck. It has been talked about, but what else should we discuss when our team is 2-3. They look, smell and are in fact crap right now. For each time they turned it around, there are other instances where they just got worse or were up and down all season long.

Onto other important topics, i.e. - rookies getting arrested, Troy's hair commercial, or one of those idiots sounding off against fans via facebook, twitter because they've played like dogshit. Just can't sugarcoat things. My bitching will continue until division standing improves . . .

maddog78
10-15-2012, 09:21 AM
please post your rants in other threads with the same thoughts (many of which you have already started).

thanks. :thumbsup:

Does that go for positive posts, too? Or are you just trying to curtail speech you don't agree with?

tony hipchest
10-16-2012, 10:48 AM
Does that go for positive posts, too? Or are you just trying to curtail speech you don't agree with?

just follow the guidelines set before you.

if there are 10 seperate threads started on haleys reliance on bens greatness, ben is great, ben is god, ben is the reason we have won 2 games, etc. they will be merged as well, in accordance with the EXACT SAME guidelines.

no need to play the victim here...

MACH1
10-16-2012, 11:12 AM
Exactly. Not every thought needs a new thread.

wera176
10-16-2012, 12:43 PM
Troy really hid the REAL GLARING problems with our Defense for years. When one guy is the fine line between a Defense being good and subpar, it isn't all that good a Defense. Without him, Lebeau is once again exposed for the fraud that he truly is. The "Genius" turns into a simpleton without his Superman.

For years?

A fraud?

Damn, rough room...

stb_steeler
10-16-2012, 12:55 PM
Any one know the status on Troy?

steelfury02
10-16-2012, 01:17 PM
not playing

Rotorhead
10-16-2012, 04:24 PM
That is just plain dumb, Lebeau talored his schemes around Troy because he is a once in a generation player (like Barry Sanders). If what we are seeing is correct, he is starting the transition around Timmons abilities as he has been playing differently/better as of late. Unfortunately Troy is breaking down, but our Def will transition away from this style and be great again, hopefully it will be sooner rather than later. If you get a player like Troy, you mold your defense around that. He had that special ability to just know what was coming and Lebeau took advantage of it to great success, so all this nonsense that Troy made Lebeau look good is moronic at best. It was Lebeau that helped make Troy the best he could be by putting him in a position to be great.

FrancoLambert
10-16-2012, 05:22 PM
Troy really hid the REAL GLARING problems with our Defense for years. When one guy is the fine line between a Defense being good and subpar, it isn't all that good a Defense. Without him, Lebeau is once again exposed for the fraud that he truly is. The "Genius" turns into a simpleton without his Superman.

Look, the defense sucks right now.
But to call HOF'er Lebeau a "fraud" and "simpleton" is too over the top.
You're forgetting and dismissing a hell of a lot of accomplishments.

Hawaii 5-0
10-26-2012, 04:10 PM
Does Dick LeBeau Still Have His Fastball?

Friday, October 26th, 2012
By David Todd

The question has been asked often this year. The Steelers have given up fourth quarter leads in four of six games, so it comes with the territory. Everyone knows Dick LeBeau is a Hall-of-Famer, a defensive genius, but the NFL is the ultimate What-Have-You-Done-For-Me-Lately league. A HOF bust doesn’t supersede last week’s results.

The personnel changes, the schemes change, the game changes.

Often times Dick LeBeau has been at the forefront of change, most notably his implementation of the zone blitz, which has defined modern defense. Under his tutelage the Steelers have consistently ranked among the best in the game. On rare occasions he’s been behind the curve, trying to figure out the latest offensive wrinkle--multiple receivers flooding a zone, two tights ends splitting the deep seam--but ultimately LeBeau has emerged to reassert his prowess.

This year there have been chinks in the Steelers’ defensive armor. Injuries have played a role. Troy Polamalu has worn a hoodie more often than a helmet. James Harrison and LaMarr Woodley were on the field together for an entire game for the first time just last week. Performance has waned as well. Ike Taylor was bad enough the first five weeks there were calls for him to be benched. The defensive line went games without being noticed. Pressure in Pittsburgh was being measured by a barometer as opposed to QB sacks.

But there were also bad schemes. In week 1 the Steelers had no answer to Peyton Manning’s no-huddle offense. He was able to read the defense from the line of scrimmage and audible at will, most-notably into a wide receiver screen to DeMaryius Thomas that went for a 71-yard touchdown. There was no disguise, no sugaring of the coverages. In Oakland Carson Palmer knew exactly what he was seeing having started against a LeBeau defense 12 times. In the first half the defense tipped a blitz and Palmer audibled to a run that went 64 yards for a touchdown. In the second half he led the Raiders on five drives: TD, TD, TD, FG, Game-Winning FG. In Nashville the Steelers often looked confused, and on the game’s biggest play, an obvious passing situation, James Harrison was left to cover a tight end on a crossing route. 25 yards later the Titans were set up for the game-winning field goal.

Player performance and coaching schemes are the hand and the glove. The coach’s job is to put players in roles and schemes were they can succeed. The players’ job is to execute. While the Steelers defense again ranks among the league’s best, the numbers have largely been misleading--until last week.

After getting run over on Cincinnati’s first drive of the game, the Steelers held the Bengals to 105 total yards and 10 points, seven resulting from a turnover deep in their own territory, the rest of the game. Dick LeBeau made adjustments. He used the dime defense for the first time all season. He gave Ike Taylor deep safety help on All-World wideout A.J. Green and he modified the fire-X blitz to get consistent pressure up the middle. Bengals offensive coordinator Jay Gruden had no answer, Andy Dalton looked confused and A.J. Green was held to one catch. Checkmate.

This Sunday provides another test, one that football fans across the country will be watching closely. Robert Griffin III and the Washington Redskins come to Heinz Field. RG III has been nothing short of sensational, quickly become a dominant force and the league’s most talked-about player. His stats are ridiculous. He is first in the league in completion percentage and third in passer rating. He is 12th in rushing and first in yards/attempt. An article in today’s Washington Post suggests he isn’t even close to reaching his potential. The New York Giants beat the Redskins last week but showered unheard of praise on the rookie.

Mike Shanahan deserves a ton of credit for devising game plans (subscription) that have maximized RGIII’s talents and given him a great opportunity to be successful. It starts with a running game that has amassed at least 100 yards in 13 straight games behind its zone-blocking scheme and Griffin’s exceptional ability to sell play-action.

How does Dick LeBeau counteract this multi-dimensional offense that has put up at least 23 points in all but one game this season? Obviously there isn’t a simple answer, but Griffin is a rookie with only seven games of NFL experience. Dick Lebeau is 14-1 against rookie QBs, holding them to 11.4 points per game, a 52.3% completion percentage and a 60.4 passer rating and this will be the first time RGIII has played against a 3-4 defense in the pros. Scheming and confusing, a hallmark of LeBeau in years past, is paramount.

RGIII’s running statistics probably reveal another key for the Steelers to be successful. So far this year Griffin has run by design 38 times and has scrambled 20 times. On those scrambles he’s made it out of bounds 17 or 20 times. On the designed runs he’s made it out just 8 or 38 times. He has already been knocked out of one game with a concussion and is being much more cautious in his last few starts not to take unnecessary hits. The Steelers need to key on him, possibly with Lawrence Timmons as a spy similar to a role he appeared to play against Michael Vick earlier in the season, and hit him every time he runs. This tactic was used somewhat successfully by both Cincinnati and Atlanta earlier this year.

In addition, only 15 of RGIII’s 189 pass attempts (7.9%) have been for 20+ yards down the field. While the Skins offense has big play ability, it is more likely to come with RAC yardage. In addition, this week they will be without Griffin’s favorite target tight end Fred Davis, out for the season with an achilles tear, and offseason free agent-signing Pierre Garcon. Outside of RGIII this Skins lack explosive playmakers.

All this would suggest the Steelers walk a safety down into the box and look to contain RGIII on the edge, daring him to beat them deep with a single safety over the top and press coverage on the wideouts. This would also limit the safe, between-the-hashmarks throws that have led to Griffin’s 70% completion percentage.

The concern for Pittsburgh is the corners, particularly Taylor, have been burned repeatedly when isolated and the defense also lacks speed at the safety position. The Steelers were burned badly by a much-less accomplished quarterback in Tim Tebow the last time they resorted to that type of scheme, so will they be willing to use it against a much better passer in RGIII? It’s a great challenge for Dick LeBeau and the Steelers defense and should make for a fascinating game this weekend.

Can Dick LeBeau scheme, confuse and contain Robert Griffin III? Does LeBeau still have his fastball? We should have a pretty good answer Sunday around 4:15.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/10/does-dick-lebeau-still-have-his-fastball/

GoFor7
10-26-2012, 04:22 PM
Interesting video I found on the NFL's website. Deion Sanders, Michael Irvin, and Marshall Faulk were recapping the game against the Bengals. Towards the end of the video Faulk discusses how LeBeau has "arrogant confidence" in how he just calls what he wants to call even if it's not working. He did also praise LeBeau for changing things up against the Bengals and he praised Tomlin for making LeBeau change.

First, do you agree with his "arrogant confidence" assessment of LeBeau? Second, do you really think Tomlin actually forced LeBeau to change what the defense was doing?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-gameday/0ap1000000083414/How-did-Steelers-change-their-scheme

teegre
10-26-2012, 05:01 PM
We've seen the numbers with and without Troy. 14 PPG vs 21 PPG. Basically, a #1 defense vs a middle of the pack defense.

We've also seen what happens when Clark is missing in Denver for two straight years. What does everyone say after those games?

"Clark allows Troy to freelance."

Freelance. In other words, work outside of the scheme. We are most successful when our HOF safety is allowed to play his own game outside of the scheme.

So, what does that say about "the scheme"?

:noidea:

There are 18 defenses allowing fewer than our 23 PPG. All of them are missing Troy Polamalu.

Bill Parcells allowed Lawrence Taylor to freelance.

Bill Cowher allowed Derrick Thomas to freelance. Heck, they even invented a position for him (the hawk),

Both of those teams played 10 man defense, and allowed LT and DT to freelance. So does Dick LeBeau, with Troy.

Furthermore, PITT's defense has always ahd a playmaker who made a difference, especially on third downs. You knew that that player would get the sack and/or force a turnover: Greg Lloyd... Joey Porter... Kendrell Bell... James Farrior... and now Troy. Someone needs to fill that void (of playmaker). I thought that it could have been Timmons, but he has vastly underwhelmed me.

Edman
10-26-2012, 05:52 PM
That is just plain dumb, Lebeau talored his schemes around Troy because he is a once in a generation player (like Barry Sanders). If what we are seeing is correct, he is starting the transition around Timmons abilities as he has been playing differently/better as of late. Unfortunately Troy is breaking down, but our Def will transition away from this style and be great again, hopefully it will be sooner rather than later. If you get a player like Troy, you mold your defense around that. He had that special ability to just know what was coming and Lebeau took advantage of it to great success, so all this nonsense that Troy made Lebeau look good is moronic at best. It was Lebeau that helped make Troy the best he could be by putting him in a position to be great.

I don't fault Lebeau for building the Defense around Troy. What I do fault him is failing to string together a 'Plan B' for whenever Troy is out. Troy is a once-in-a-generation player for sure, but he's one player.

I'm sorry, but a Defense that drops off the map due to the absence of ONE guy doesn't make it a good Team Defense.

Riddle_Of_Steel
10-26-2012, 06:25 PM
I'm sorry, but a Defense that drops off the map due to the absence of ONE guy doesn't make it a good Team Defense.

I don't know what the fxxk you guys are talking about. Anything short of a SB win will cause a spontaneous emergence of "sky is falling" threads around here.

As of today, the Polamalu-less Steelers' defense is ranked #2 overall, #2 against the pass, and #9 at stopping the run. With Polamalu out for significant portions of the last two seasons, we have ranked #1 overall both seasons.

We just got Woodley and Harrison back on the field simultaneously for the first time since 2010, and our pass rush is starting to return. When that happens, the secondary immediately gets better. Timmons is starting to break out, Keenan Lewis is starting to grow into his starting role. We get Decastro, Gilbert, and Pouncey back on our Oline soon. We get Mendenhall back in our backfield soon. Haley's offense is starting to grow wings. The Steelers are on track to get ring 7 this year.

I think a few rebuilding years at 6-10 are what this fanbase REALLY needs. Will do some much-needed spring cleaning....

If you look around the league, not many teams are playing good pass defense this season. That has a lot to do with all the new rules. The Steelers are still #2, even including a terrible start to the season.

I hate to be a what-do-you-call-it, but seriously the pessimism around here has no basis and is a sure sign of a spoiled fanbase.

Riddle_Of_Steel
10-26-2012, 06:28 PM
Seriously, how good was the 49ers defense without Ronnie Lott? How good is Baltimore's defense without Ray Lewis and Ed Reed (we found out last week)?

Saying a defense is not that good without their Hall of Fame player on the field is like saying that beer doesn't get you drunk if there is no alcohol in it. Duh.

This is one of the dumbest threads I have ever read on SF to date.

maddog78
10-27-2012, 12:55 AM
This defense is serviceable without Troy against most teams, but I shudder to think of how it would perform in a big game against NE, GB, Houston, NYG without him.

Not buying the yardage numbers, which are more about TOP than anything. The defense can't get off the field enough on 3rd down and is not forcing turnovers.

Good enough against Cleveland and Cincy, but if this team is to go where we all want it to go, the defense has to do more.