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StainlessStill
10-23-2012, 01:43 PM
I couldn't help but notice the young-gun Mike Adams in there at RT doing a damn fine job in there last week against the Bungles and even when he played sparingly against Tennessee.

Even though he's shown he still needs help with the adaption to the NFL Level, the potential reeking from this kid will be reer its face with rep after rep.

With Gilbert out and if Adams man's the RT position, I couldn't help but re-envision the offensive line and what we could see in the future. I remember even going back to last year, Marcus Gilbert was disappointed in not getting the opportunity to play LT, to what he says, to be his more natural position.

Givin' this could be our saving Grace's last year (Max Starks) GIlbert has the experience to adjust to LT and has the same body of work and size as a Max Starks.

With DeCastro coming back (hopefully soon) and with Willie Colon SLOWLY but SURELY progressing at RG, the new line to start thinking about putting in front of Ben could transform into:

Gilbert, Colon, Pouncey, DeCastro, Adams.

Thoughts?

Fire Arians
10-23-2012, 01:55 PM
i thought gilbert would be better but now I'm not so sure. Adams is definitely more talented imo but is still green. he's getting help from one of the best TE's in the business and should get better with experience on the right side.

if adams continues to progress we might even see gilbert ride the bench later this season. I hope decastro comes back, but I also hope he's not rushed back. foster is doing a fine job in his stead and there's no reason to rush the kid back before he's 100%

stb_steeler
10-23-2012, 02:03 PM
Everytime we think the OL taking shape the injury bug rears its ugly head!

jiminpa
10-23-2012, 02:17 PM
Everytime we think the OL taking shape the injury bug rears its ugly head!Yeah, but when was the last time someone could legitimately post that it's okay to wait for the starters to return, because the backups really do have it covered. It was good to read that statement, and I agree with it. The depth is there for the first time in Tomlin's tenure. We actually have a starting center being pushed to the bench by one who is even better.

maddog78
10-23-2012, 02:21 PM
Why are we so quick to get rid of Max? He's 30, cheap, and right now our best OT.

Atlanta Dan
10-23-2012, 02:22 PM
We actually have a starting center being pushed to the bench by one who is even better.

???:noidea:

Legursky > Pouncey?

If Pouncey's knee heals he is the starter

Atlanta Dan
10-23-2012, 02:24 PM
Why are we so quick to get rid of Max? He's 30, cheap, and right now our best OT.

Steelers have been trying to get rid of Starks for years for whatever reason - I recall Bouchette once saying the coaches (post-Cowher) thought he was soft

It is not as if they had the next Anthony Munoz ready to step in

StainlessStill
10-23-2012, 02:40 PM
Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting the version of the offensive line I stated above was to go into effect this season. I do, however, see the potential of that being our staple offensive line heading into next season if Adams performs up to the task.

If Adams puts on good performances on tape at RT, then I can see us transforming Adams to RT and Gilbert to LT after the Starks era is officially over. Gilbert is a much more natural fit at LT IMO and we should give him that opportunity if the time comes whenever the highest level of competition is considered within' the team morale.

Hawaii 5-0
10-23-2012, 02:48 PM
Gilbert, Colon, Pouncey, DeCastro, Adams.

Thoughts?

I think Marcus Gilbert needs to step up his level of play and stop injuring his fellow OL every game before i consider him as our LT of the future.

stb_steeler
10-23-2012, 02:55 PM
Im not sold on Gilbert as of yet....:noidea:

StainlessStill
10-23-2012, 03:09 PM
Coaching is going to be a key ingredient into making it happen. I think Gilbert will far much better on the left side due to size and more of a wider body that can shield off an edge rusher with help from a mauler like Colon at RG to make the transition.

Remember, Starks lost his job at RT some years ago, only to go in place of Marvel Smith at LT and the rest is history. Starks struggled at times at RT and fared much, much better on the leftside. Like I said, Gilbert and Starks pretty much mirror each other with size and skill set.

Not sure if Kugler is up for the challenge, however. We'll see who can take on the task if Kugler even survives another year but I'm liking that combination more and more off of the potential alone.

FrancoLambert
10-23-2012, 04:15 PM
Im not sold on Gilbert as of yet....:noidea:

Me too. Huge but immobile. Hurts teammates. Bad combo.

teegre
10-23-2012, 04:24 PM
Me too. Huge but immobile. Hurts teammates. Bad combo.

Aside from the hurting teammates part, he sounds & looks like Max Starks.

Big: check
Out of shape: check
Slow: check
Early trouble at RT: check
Florida Gator: check
Called "soft": check

Woo-ha!!! We just found our next LT!!!

Seriously, Starks was crud at RT... and then did really well at LT. And, I see the same person in Gilbert.

StainlessStill
10-23-2012, 04:33 PM
That's the parallel I was trying to make, tee. Hitman-Gilbert obviously would need major work in the off-season, but Adams has shown he doesn't have the punch to go up against the best rushers first step on the blind-side. I think with Gilbert longing to play LT and if Adams shows promise at RT, it could indeed work out for us in the short and long term.

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-23-2012, 05:16 PM
Adams did fine, but still shows lack of strength and technique IMO. He sets up too high and catches the pass rusher, rather than punch the defender to keep him at distance and shock them. He ends up getting walked back into the pocket or the rusher gets his hands on the shoulder pads to rip or arm-over.

I like the progress with Adams and always said he needs to apprentice on the right side, get stronger and more consistent in his technique. His run blocking is good as long as he gets low enough. I'm pleased going forward as long as they can lock down Pouncey to a longer contract. He, DeCastro, Adams, Gilbert and Colon can be a solid young line. Foster Beechum and Legursky can be good utility guys also.

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-23-2012, 05:21 PM
Aside from the hurting teammates part, he sounds & looks like Max Starks.

Big: check
Out of shape: check
Slow: check
Early trouble at RT: check
Florida Gator: check
Called "soft": check

Woo-ha!!! We just found our next LT!!!

Seriously, Starks was crud at RT... and then did really well at LT. And, I see the same person in Gilbert.

I disagree with most of this post. Max Starks was a good RT, but struggled initially at LT and now is adequate, but inconsistent.

Gilbert is much more athletic than Starks. If you watched him as a rookie vs Trent Cole then you would see how quick his feet are. Gilbert is potentially a better LT than Adams, but Gilbert being the stronger run blocker would normally lead to him playing RT.

I think those are 2 good young OT's that will develop to be really good linemen in another year.

tony hipchest
10-23-2012, 07:01 PM
I'm pleased going forward as long as they can lock down Pouncey to a longer contract. He, DeCastro, Adams, Gilbert and Colon can be a solid young line. Foster Beechum and Legursky can be good utility guys also.

that outlook is so bright, i gotta wear shades. :sun:

its noteworthy that teams like the texans and 49ers have spent many years, losing seasons, and drafting inside the top 10 to build up their offensive lines, but once they gelled and gained experience look how good they are.

we are kinda going through the same rebuilding process w/o the pains of sucking and multiple losing seasons. sure we have suffered some bad line play, but in about 3 years WATCH OUT!

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-24-2012, 12:09 AM
that outlook is so bright, i gotta wear shades. :sun:

its noteworthy that teams like the texans and 49ers have spent many years, losing seasons, and drafting inside the top 10 to build up their offensive lines, but once they gelled and gained experience look how good they are.

we are kinda going through the same rebuilding process w/o the pains of sucking and multiple losing seasons. sure we have suffered some bad line play, but in about 3 years WATCH OUT!

The49ers had Joe Staley and when they drafted Iupati and Young the sane year it took until their 2nd season to start noticing that mauling line. I hope that happens here in year two of our top picks.

IMO, the Texans benefitted from having Winston and Brown, but more Alex Gibbs teaching his zone block scheme.

teegre
10-24-2012, 12:19 AM
I disagree with most of this post. Max Starks was a good RT, but struggled initially at LT and now is adequate, but inconsistent.

Gilbert is much more athletic than Starks. If you watched him as a rookie vs Trent Cole then you would see how quick his feet are. Gilbert is potentially a better LT than Adams, but Gilbert being the stronger run blocker would normally lead to him playing RT.

I think those are 2 good young OT's that will develop to be really good linemen in another year.

I will defer to you, as you know far more about OL play & technique than I do.

That said, I do indeed remember Starks struggling (& being benched) as the RT. Stainless remembers it that way, as well...

teegre
10-24-2012, 12:25 AM
that outlook is so bright, i gotta wear shades. :sun:


DD... Pouncey... are amazing... and under 23 years old. Heck, The Colon is only 27.

You nailed it: the future looks awesome!!!

tony hipchest
10-24-2012, 01:03 AM
That said, I do indeed remember Starks struggling (& being benched) as the RT. Stainless remembers it that way, as well...pretty sure it was 06 (maybe 07) when starks lost his starting RT job to colon in camp, so he wasnt exactly "benched" per se, but that is just semantics.

it didnt seem to bother him much and he took it in stride, wishing colon well and pretty much conceding the better man won the job.

max is a huge, strong, giant of a man who has an incredible NICE streak, and he plays that way. some have even attempted to label him as "soft" which i dont necessarilly agree with. he is just a different breed.

players like reggie white & j. ogden, were larger than life, yet some of the nicest, most gentlemanly scholared people you could meet, but when they stepped on teh field they flipped a switch and turned into some of the meanest sons of bitches you could imagine.

max doesnt have that switch. he has plenty of great traits as a player and person (such as being enormous, loyal, and one of bens best friends) but just imagine if he played with the mean, nasty streak willie colon has.

with that being said, i am MORE than greatful to have him at league minimum salary for the past 2 years. it shows heart to come back from injury and dedication to team mates and the rooneys.

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-24-2012, 06:48 AM
That said, I do indeed remember Starks struggling (& being benched) as the RT. Stainless remembers it that way, as well...

As Tony mentioned, Starks got beat out by Colon for the RT job. Starks got the LT job when Marvel Smith's back finally gave out and the Steelers had not drafted a suitable successor. I dont think it was ever a point that Starks is a better LT than RT.

Even as far back as the Senior Bowl when Starks was in college, he got the label of a guy that doesnt have the drive to be a great blocker. He seemed to carry that to the NFL. The guy has incredible mix of size and movement skills, but never seemed interested in becoming a great OT.


Below is what Sporting News Draft Central said of Starks in 2004. :

Florida tackle Max Starks has a lot of upside because of his size and relatively quick feet. But he never reached his potential in college, where he didn't always show great effort on and off the field and was known for being somewhat soft. Starks also will have trouble against top speed rushers because he isn't effective in space.

Atlanta Dan
10-24-2012, 07:08 AM
i thought gilbert would be better but now I'm not so sure. Adams is definitely more talented imo but is still green. he's getting help from one of the best TE's in the business and should get better with experience on the right side.

if adams continues to progress we might even see gilbert ride the bench later this season.

Good call - Ed.B. of the P-G says Gilbert may be riding the bench even after he recovers

The line you see on Sunday likely will be with all five regulars because Mike Adams is in the process of winning the job at right tackle and Maurkice Pouncey should return at center.

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/118613-ed-hines-ward-explains-arians-firing

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-24-2012, 08:11 AM
Good call - Ed.B. of the P-G says Gilbert may be riding the bench even after he recovers

The line you see on Sunday likely will be with all five regulars because Mike Adams is in the process of winning the job at right tackle and Maurkice Pouncey should return at center.

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/118613-ed-hines-ward-explains-arians-firing

Idk. I hope Adams progresses, but watch the game from Sunday again and break down Adams play. He is nowhere as strong as Gilbert is and struggles in many areas. I am all for Adams learning at RT for now, but still think Gilbert is better than him at this point.

teegre
10-24-2012, 08:30 AM
pretty sure it was 06 (maybe 07) when starks lost his starting RT job to colon in camp, so he wasnt exactly "benched" per se, but that is just semantics.

it didnt seem to bother him much and he took it in stride, wishing colon well and pretty much conceding the better man won the job.

max is a huge, strong, giant of a man who has an incredible NICE streak, and he plays that way. some have even attempted to label him as "soft" which i dont necessarilly agree with. he is just a different breed.

players like reggie white & j. ogden, were larger than life, yet some of the nicest, most gentlemanly scholared people you could meet, but when they stepped on teh field they flipped a switch and turned into some of the meanest sons of bitches you could imagine.

max doesnt have that switch. he has plenty of great traits as a player and person (such as being enormous, loyal, and one of bens best friends) but just imagine if he played with the mean, nasty streak willie colon has.

with that being said, i am MORE than greatful to have him at league minimum salary for the past 2 years. it shows heart to come back from injury and dedication to team mates and the rooneys.

As always, great post Tony.

The main point (aside from the tangental discussion about Stark's play at RT), is that Stainless & I feel that:
Gilbert is currently everyone's whipping boy... when, in truth, he will eventually be really good.

He is struggling right now, but I'm optimistic, because he is following a similar path as Starks... which I think was a pretty good path, because I think that Starks was/is a good LT.

Furthermore, as El-Gonzo said, Gilbert is actually more athletic/better than Starks... which means that Gilbert could be even better than Starks. In other words, as you mentioned earlier: the future is bright.

EbonySteel86
10-24-2012, 09:42 AM
Adams, u play RT...Starks you play LT have Gilbert back you up. DD, you got RG, Pouncy hold down the middle at C. And Colon???........SMASH!!!

~Captain AmeriBen~

StainlessStill
10-24-2012, 06:07 PM
I beat this article to the punch. Seems like many in the organization agree and mimick word for word about my predictions of the future o-line.

From the Post Gazette:

After the Steelers drafted guard David DeCastro, they said they were moving Gilbert, who started 14 games at right tackle as a rookie in 2011, to left tackle. Then, they drafted Adams, a left tackle from Ohio State, in the second round. Then, they re-signed left tackle Max Starks.

The plan shifted. Starks would play left tackle until Adams was ready to move in, and Gilbert would remain at right tackle. But their thinking could again change, especially if Adams continues to perform well at right tackle.

Adams did not do so well as a left tackle in the preseason. One source from another team cited him as too slow-footed for the position. Quick feet are not as necessary at right tackle, a more run-blocking position and one that often has a tight end to his right and does not protect the quarterback's blind side or usually go against the opponent's top pass rusher.

On the other hand, Tomlin has said left tackle is Gilbert's more natural position, and Gilbert said he'd prefer the left side if given a choice.

Shit, almost word for word!

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/long-solid-line-forms-for-steelers-at-tackle-658881/#ixzz2AGDGwBkX

AgentGold007
10-24-2012, 11:51 PM
Marcus Gilbert is a good OT, but he seems highly injury prone. I can't remember too many games where he hasn't come hobbling off of the field at somepoint in time. I know injuries are part of the game, but I'm wondering if it has something to do with his technique or does he just have bad luck with injuries. Dunno. Hopefully he stays healthy and has a long prosperous career in the black and gold.

Millers the sh!t
10-25-2012, 05:05 AM
Is it me or does anyone else not see Adams growth? The dude has two left feet. All I noticed was miller saving the tight side all night in cinci and one of the few times miller went out for a pass, Ben got strip sacked.

Bayz101
10-25-2012, 05:22 AM
Is it me or does anyone else not see Adams growth? The dude has two left feet. All I noticed was miller saving the tight side all night in cinci and one of the few times miller went out for a pass, Ben got strip sacked.

He's a rookie, give him a break. You're not going to see much "growth" in his first year, but he HAS been solid. One sack on his part is not only OK, it's EXPECTED. He's doing well, and I think he'll develop and grow into his spot on the line.

He was a project when we drafted him, and everyone knew that. The fact that he's starting and playing OK, is awesome.

maddog78
10-25-2012, 06:41 AM
Actually, Gilbert is a natural RT and Adams a LT. Gilbert is far too heavy and slow to play LT. Adams has much better feet and a bigger wingspan.

Gilbert needs to slim down to play RT, too, but I don't want that tub of goo anywhere near Ben's blindside.

LayingTheWoodley56
10-25-2012, 07:24 AM
After years of patchwork offensive lines, I for one am excited about the stable of young, talented lineman we currently have. I think we will most likely continue to go with Max at LT for the rest of this season, but starting next year we should have a 2nd rounder at RT (Gilbert), a first rounder in Decastro at RG, perennial Pro Bowler Pouncey at C, rapidly improving Willie Colon at LG, and another second rounder at LT in Adams. That should be our line for the foreseeable future, and that prospect is exciting.

maddog78
10-25-2012, 08:02 AM
After years of patchwork offensive lines, I for one am excited about the stable of young, talented lineman we currently have. I think we will most likely continue to go with Max at LT for the rest of this season, but starting next year we should have a 2nd rounder at RT (Gilbert), a first rounder in Decastro at RG, perennial Pro Bowler Pouncey at C, rapidly improving Willie Colon at LG, and another second rounder at LT in Adams. That should be our line for the foreseeable future, and that prospect is exciting.

Indeed. This next offseason has to focus on retooling the defense.

Atlanta Dan
10-25-2012, 09:17 AM
Acccording to Ed.B. from the P-G, Gilbert apparently has followed the injury rehab practices of Mendenhall (after he broke his collarbone in 2008) and gone missing since his injury in the Tennessee game :noidea:

Gerry commented that Marcus Gilbert hasn't been seen around the facility since his injury. This seems unusual or is there more to the story.
ME: Iím hurt because I wrote that as well here yesterday. It is unusual for a player who has not had surgery to go missing for two weeks.

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/118632-ed-steelers-once-had-rg3-of-their-own

Great

steelfury02
10-25-2012, 09:23 AM
another player entering dog house territory :thumbsup:

wootawnee
10-25-2012, 11:56 AM
Max Starks is one of the teams leaders......He'll play his entire career at our LT spot.....

El-Gonzo Jackson
10-25-2012, 06:48 PM
Actually, Gilbert is a natural RT and Adams a LT. Gilbert is far too heavy and slow to play LT. Adams has much better feet and a bigger wingspan.

Gilbert needs to slim down to play RT, too, but I don't want that tub of goo anywhere near Ben's blindside.

Gilbert handles speed rushers better than you think at LT. In Gilberts rookie year, Starks and Essex had ate themselves out of the NFL, Jon Scott got injured and Gilbert played against the Eagles.

Gilbert handled Trent Cole well while at LT and I think he is a better LT than Adams at this point and may be better there than at RT. Gilbert in last year's form is better at LT than Starks....he just hasnt been able to be healthy this season.

WVABE
10-25-2012, 07:31 PM
Heres some love to Legursky, a great back-up.:thumbsup:

:kiss02::cheer::chestbump::cheers::tt03:

:steelersfever:

Hawaii 5-0
10-25-2012, 09:06 PM
Acccording to Ed.B. from the P-G, Gilbert apparently has followed the injury rehab practices of Mendenhall (after he broke his collarbone in 2008) and gone missing since his injury in the Tennessee game :noidea:

Gerry commented that Marcus Gilbert hasn't been seen around the facility since his injury. This seems unusual or is there more to the story.
ME: Iím hurt because I wrote that as well here yesterday. It is unusual for a player who has not had surgery to go missing for two weeks.

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/118632-ed-steelers-once-had-rg3-of-their-own

Great

the Steelers probably told Gilbert to stay away from his teammates so he doesn't hurt anybody...

tony hipchest
10-25-2012, 09:41 PM
Acccording to Ed.B. from the P-G, Gilbert apparently has followed the injury rehab practices of Mendenhall (after he broke his collarbone in 2008) and gone missing since his injury in the Tennessee game :noidea:

Gerry commented that Marcus Gilbert hasn't been seen around the facility since his injury. This seems unusual or is there more to the story.
ME: Iím hurt because I wrote that as well here yesterday. It is unusual for a player who has not had surgery to go missing for two weeks.

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/118632-ed-steelers-once-had-rg3-of-their-own

Great

not suprised at all. gilbert strikes me as a knucklehead who wont be with the team beyond his rookie contract.

you cant tell alot by following these players via social media. gilbert and wes saunders #1 priorities seem to be rollin with an enterage, finding the "spot" to party at on the weekends, being the man, and having their egos stroked (along w/ other things) by as many fine women as possible. basically their social profiles definitely seem to be more important than football. they have the attitudes so many pro atheletes have... that theyve already made it.

them 2 would be the 1st 2 steelers 1 would expect to be "makin it rain" in "da clubz". i wasnt suprised at all when wes was sent packing.

before the by week gilbert was drunk tweeting to buddies publicly, how he needed to get the hell out of town asap because the scene sucked and pittsburgh locals are lame.

he mustve went to plexico's school of public relations.

players like myron rolle and kelvin beachum must be shaking their heads wishing they had as much natural raw talent to just piss away.

Steel_Bus_24
10-25-2012, 10:38 PM
the Steelers probably told Gilbert to stay away from his teammates so he doesn't hurt anybody...

One can only hope Skynet sent that T-800 some new target orders that aren't Steelers

tony hipchest
10-25-2012, 10:47 PM
how i see it is gilbert is working his way down from the right side, injuring people. once he takes out colon and starks, move him to LT and there is nobody left to injure since heath will line up on the right side and the wr's are too quick for him to get too. :thumbsup:

Hawaii 5-0
10-25-2012, 11:48 PM
gilbert and wes saunders #1 priorities seem to be rollin with an enterage, finding the "spot" to party at on the weekends, being the man, and having their egos stroked (along w/ other things) by as many fine women as possible

well, you can't really hold that last part against them...:chuckle:

tony hipchest
10-26-2012, 12:00 AM
well, you can't really hold that last part against them...:chuckle::laughing: as a civilian, yes, i have to agree. but gilbert needs to learn his role. "it aint no fun if ben cant have none".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmoS16qAv94

him and wesson neet to be guarding the bar restroom door while the star qb gets his blowies, then they can discretely worry about sloppy seconds.

lloydwoodson
10-26-2012, 01:28 AM
Yeah, but when was the last time someone could legitimately post that it's okay to wait for the starters to return, because the backups really do have it covered. It was good to read that statement, and I agree with it. The depth is there for the first time in Tomlin's tenure. We actually have a starting center being pushed to the bench by one who is even better.

Legursky is a good backup to Pouncey but he is no where near Pouncey's level. Legursky has as much chance at taking Pouncey's spot as Mundy has at taking Polamalu's spot.