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View Full Version : James Harrison cant generate pressure anymore


Penn
10-28-2012, 04:50 PM
On almost all of his rushes i saw him being handled easily 1 on 1 and getting stood up. Now maybe he was the contain guy on those plays but i just dont see it. I love James and maybe he isnt 100% right now but maybe we need to start thinking about going OLB in the first round

TRH
10-28-2012, 05:00 PM
with all the talk of "double-teaming", i've paid close attention to this.
I, too, have seen him getting easily manhandled by one guy...consistently...and time and time again. He's pretty much non-existent on the field - aside from other teams having to "account" for him.

I love James too, but his best days, by far, are in the rearview mirror.

Rotorhead
10-28-2012, 05:35 PM
Wow, this board cant ever be happy, we soundly wooped the skins and our def shut down the top rushing off in the league. I think silverback and woodley were in contain mode this game, and it worked.

OX1947
10-28-2012, 06:08 PM
Because he is in coverage half the time. Watch the game, stop looking at box scores.

Penn
10-28-2012, 06:26 PM
Because he is in coverage half the time. Watch the game, stop looking at box scores.

I did watch the game and was focused on harrison on most of the defensive snaps. He was getting stood up 1 on 1

Fire Arians
10-28-2012, 06:28 PM
Wow, this board cant ever be happy, we soundly wooped the skins and our def shut down the top rushing off in the league. I think silverback and woodley were in contain mode this game, and it worked.

they definitely were. they couldn't allow RG3 to break big plays with his legs, and knew washington's best chance of winning would be to get the running game started, which they couldn't

OX1947
10-28-2012, 06:44 PM
I did watch the game and was focused on harrison on most of the defensive snaps. He was getting stood up 1 on 1

No.

TRH
10-28-2012, 06:47 PM
I don't think anyone's saying James "stinks" now or anything like that..........he's just not blowing through or around people when he's one-on-one'd with someone anymore.
A back injury will do that to you - thats just the way it is - you can torque like you once could

Penn
10-28-2012, 06:59 PM
I don't think anyone's saying James "stinks" now or anything like that..........he's just not blowing through or around people when he's one-on-one'd with someone anymore.
A back injury will do that to you - thats just the way it is - you can torque like you once could

exactly, i believe i already said i love harrison. Im just surprised at what i saw the last few weeks from him. But the guy saying i didnt watch the game.. i mean come on

steelerchad
10-28-2012, 07:04 PM
It's the knee that's slowing him down. He's pushing an OT that's 350, and can't get the drive, power, torque he used to have. All good things come to an end. Knee may get a little better, but I think this is it for him with us. $7M due next season, not gonna happen.

LVSteelersfan
10-28-2012, 07:08 PM
He needs to be used differently. Instead of having him try to push an OT who outweighs him, have him run stunts with the other LBs and try coming up the middle once in awhile. Or move him around a bit. And definitely don't try to have him cover a TE in space. That was disastrous today.

maddog78
10-28-2012, 07:15 PM
Not the same player, still very effective defense today against a dangerous team. Don't like seeing him in coverage so much, though. He's not much use there.

truesteelerfan
10-28-2012, 07:20 PM
I think his knee is still restricting his movement and the torque he can get against OTs. Last week on TV they showed a good photo of him before, and him today - in the past with a good knee, the angle of his body to the ground was like 45 degrees - now with a bum knee, he only gets down to about 60 degrees- it takes away what has always been one of his advantages - his use of his lack of height to get under the tackles and his strength to drive them backwards - now he can't go as far down, to get under them - I think as long has his knee can return to a healthy mode - he'll be fine. No one else on our roster who is better than him anyway - and next year, do we really think a rookie will come in and unseat him? I think not, by the end of next, or the following year - he'll be too old and epensive for us anyway.

frunko1
10-28-2012, 07:34 PM
Even if he isn't getting the sacks, he is helping big time in the run game. With him and Woodley in together, you can see the opposing RB's having to look extra hard for the hole to run through.

steelersfan77
10-28-2012, 07:36 PM
Keep in mind the Steelers extended his contract after he reached his thirties. The organization doesn't do that very often. Other than that I still think we'll see that explosiveness again once he's completely healthy.

The Steelers can use that 1st round pick based on need and they'll be lots of holes. NG, S, LB, ect. Keep in mind what a great player Harrison has been for an undrafted player. A future hall of famer.

Edit : every great player looses a step. Who here isn't seeing a smarter, more wiser player? He'll make up for it.

Penn
10-28-2012, 07:37 PM
Even if he isn't getting the sacks, he is helping big time in the run game. With him and Woodley in together, you can see the opposing RB's having to look extra hard for the hole to run through.

I agree the run D has definitely looked better when harrison and woodley are on the field at the same time but getting pressure is still a problem that needs to be addressed

Penn
10-28-2012, 07:39 PM
Keep in mind the Steelers extended his contract after he reached his thirties. The organization doesn't do that very often. Other than that I still think we'll see that explosiveness again once he's completely healthy.

The Steelers can use that 1st round pick based on need and they'll be lots of holes. NG, S, LB, ect. Keep in mind what a great player Harrison has been for an undrafted player. A future hall of famer.

I dont think there is a chance that Harrison gets into the hall of fame. He just got started too late into his career. Love him to death though

OX1947
10-28-2012, 08:04 PM
I dont think there is a chance that Harrison gets into the hall of fame. He just got started too late into his career. Love him to death though

Hall of Fame is great, but it has been watered down the last decade. Too many sympathy inductees. To me, if you have to ask if a player is a hall of famer, then he isn't.

James has created an amazing career. He will be a 10+ year vet in the NFL, 2 SB titles, a DOPY and 5 pro bowls. Also, security with his contract. James is pretty solid in keeping his money close, I saw a couple article where he drives a smart car and stuff. So, looking at it from my perspective, James has over achieved beyond anything i would have ever thought.

Acerinox
10-28-2012, 11:38 PM
I wouldn't worry too much about Silverback. He was in contain this game - probably in part because he's not at 100% in drive and flexibility. But there's one hilarious play I think in the 3Q where Washington just clear out the blockers in front of him and he just stands there on the line with his arms out wide like he's playing British Bulldog (Red Rover do you call it in the US?).
I for one am glad he was under instructions not to rush, even in extreme situations like that. In the past he would have just bulled in and they'd have popped a short pass over him to the RB.
It's part of a theme I've seen on D these last few weeks as we improve.
In the past we've been ruled by the raw talent of the likes of Troy and James.
But now we have to get more clever and disciplined.
Literally - Older = Wiser.

MasterOfPuppets
10-29-2012, 12:11 AM
It's the knee that's slowing him down. He's pushing an OT that's 350, and can't get the drive, power, torque he used to have. All good things come to an end. Knee may get a little better, but I think this is it for him with us. $7M due next season, not gonna happen.
thats what i said about fat snack back in febuary..but yet he's still there...:noidea:

Steelersfan87
10-29-2012, 12:39 AM
I intend to take a very close look at Harrison when I rewatch the game. I'll post mu thoughts here once I get a chance to do that. There's no question that he's out in coverage a lot more than most 3-4 OLBs though.

Steeldude
10-29-2012, 05:37 AM
with all the talk of "double-teaming", i've paid close attention to this.
I, too, have seen him getting easily manhandled by one guy...consistently...and time and time again. He's pretty much non-existent on the field - aside from other teams having to "account" for him.

I love James too, but his best days, by far, are in the rearview mirror.

Sounds like Woodley.

I would give Harrison some more time. If he shows he can no longer be the player he once was then the Steelers will probably release him due to salary cap issues.

Steeldude
10-29-2012, 05:42 AM
The sad part is the backups are worse than an injured Harrison. Without a healthy Harrison the Steelers have no one on the team that can generate a consistent pass rush on his own.

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
10-29-2012, 06:02 AM
Wish the Steelers gave Adrian Robinson some PT on passing down cause he looked pretty good in preseason.

Steel95
10-29-2012, 06:50 AM
I think we are going to see a lot of changes next year on defense for the better. I do believe the following players could be gone next year:

1. Casey Hampton - Playing in his final year; if he comes back he will only sign a 1yr deal. No way the Steelers will sign a 35 yr old player.

2. James Harrison - He is scheduled to count $10M against the cap next year; I think the F/O will ask him to either restructure his contract or flat out release him. James has been hurt the previous couple of seasons, none of us can defy Father Time.

3. Troy P. - Now this is a tricky one; I think Troy's better days are behind him as well. Better yet, I don't think he's having as much fun as he did when he was younger. It almost feels like he has one foot already out the door. I think his cap hit will be close to $6M next year as well.

4. Larry Foote - I think Foote will be asked to return for 1yr, no signing bonus though. Larry Foote is 33, will turn 34 next yr. Although his play has been solid, it hasn't been spectatcular.

5. Ike Taylor - I really do believe Ike will be gone after 2013; He played well the previous two weeks, we all have to give credit were credit is due. However, Ike isn't quite the same CB he once was.

I look for the 2013 NFL Draft to be heavy on the DEFENSIVE side for the Steelers.

Lord of Lombardi
10-29-2012, 07:45 AM
Are you frikin serious? Dumb arses, he is getting over knee surgery!!!!! You are just like the society that I despise, wants everything now and dammit if I don't get it someone is going to pay or get cut.

Same idiots bitch when James gets signed on by the Niners and goes off. I'd rather have you guys cheer for the bengals. You are matching their mentality.

wootawnee
10-29-2012, 10:24 AM
He is not 100% by a long shot....At least he is on the field......

FrancoLambert
10-29-2012, 10:51 AM
What's he doing covering tight ends down the field? With a knee problem?
As mentioned previously, run some stunts up the middle so he can rush the qb without dealing with a large tackle.

steelfury02
10-29-2012, 11:01 AM
with Harrison and Woodley both on the field together, they are at least a"solid" D in my book, which translates into being good enough to force some throws and to have to be accounted for

- I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see some more havoc wreaked, but all we can do is go with what we have. If the offense continues to improve - who knows, maybe "good enough" is good enough to contend.

Today's Steelers D looks much improved than the one that faced the Broncos, Raiders, and Titans. They are getting stops more consistently - this Giants game will be THE measuring stick for the midway point of the season.

The Ravens do not look as good as last year's version. They are really vulnerable. And, as I stated in another thread - if Ben and co. were facing the Giants yesterday, they probably wouldn't have gone with the same play calling. The Giants are very beatable - but I would still say this game is a toss up.

dreegking
10-30-2012, 12:21 PM
with Harrison and Woodley both on the field together, they are at least a"solid" D in my book, which translates into being good enough to force some throws and to have to be accounted for

- I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see some more havoc wreaked, but all we can do is go with what we have. If the offense continues to improve - who knows, maybe "good enough" is good enough to contend.

Today's Steelers D looks much improved than the one that faced the Broncos, Raiders, and Titans. They are getting stops more consistently - this Giants game will be THE measuring stick for the midway point of the season.

The Ravens do not look as good as last year's version. They are really vulnerable. And, as I stated in another thread - if Ben and co. were facing the Giants yesterday, they probably wouldn't have gone with the same play calling. The Giants are very beatable - but I would still say this game is a toss up.

Nice take.

I think Harrison and his future next year with the team depends on the second half of the season, which I expect to be much better.

Woodley? Needs to change his workouts and learn his body. Never healthy.

Bayz101
10-30-2012, 01:03 PM
I watched Harrison on defense, and Wallace on offense. Here's what I saw:

Wallace doesn't get double-teamed NEARLY as much as people claim, and Harrison gets held on every other blitz. He's not angling enough to get around the end, and that has a lot to do with him recovering from knee surgery. I expect him to hit a hot streak at some point in the next few weeks, and the same goes for Woodley.

Riddle_Of_Steel
10-30-2012, 01:26 PM
Are you frikin serious? Dumb arses, he is getting over knee surgery!!!!! You are just like the society that I despise, wants everything now and dammit if I don't get it someone is going to pay or get cut.

Same idiots bitch when James gets signed on by the Niners and goes off. I'd rather have you guys cheer for the bengals. You are matching their mentality.

You are a MORON.

The rest of the NFL is not going to sit on their haunches and "pause" the game to wait for James Harrison to get back to 100% (if he ever does-- he is 35).

If he cannot perform, then simply put, he is hurting the team.

You only get an "A" for effort in the politically over-correct, "everybody is a winner" society that I despise. In the real world-- you either get results, or you are gone. That's the harsh reality-- the Steelers are not here to rehab him, they are here to win games and championships.

Penn
11-16-2012, 05:00 PM
a few weeks later and he is still struggling. He really needs to turn it on with the rest of the defense. Ive noticed that he is dropping back in to coverage A LOT more than usual which raises further questions

steelerchad
11-16-2012, 08:05 PM
more importantly is the fact that our 2nd round pick from 3 years ago is not a better option than a guy at about 60%.

PhantomJB93
11-16-2012, 08:31 PM
more importantly is the fact that our 2nd round pick from 3 years ago is not a better option than a guy at about 60%.

I don't know if this is really true at all, we all know how hard it is for ANYONE on this defense to win a job over a veteran, no matter how much said veteran is underperforming. If Harrison can play, he's going to play, no matter how effective he is. Worilds is still leading the team in sacks and hasn't started in several weeks.

I think Harrison will still get better, but I am a little discouraged that I haven't noticed him get any significant pressure once this season. I would not worry about Woodley, he ALWAYS starts slow and by the end of the season will be absolutely wrecking.

SteelersCanada
11-16-2012, 08:42 PM
I don't know if this is really true at all, we all know how hard it is for ANYONE on this defense to win a job over a veteran, no matter how much said veteran is underperforming. If Harrison can play, he's going to play, no matter how effective he is. Worilds is still leading the team in sacks and hasn't started in several weeks.

I think Harrison will still get better, but I am a little discouraged that I haven't noticed him get any significant pressure once this season. I would not worry about Woodley, he ALWAYS starts slow and by the end of the season will be absolutely wrecking.

Worilds hasn't shown he's the guy to take over after Harrison is done. While it is true that it's tough for young guys to win a job, Worilds hasn't a case to take over. On the right side, he's a liability playing against solid left tackles. He's just not strong or fast enough to make a significant case for him to start - ever. The left side is different, but with Woodley, it again makes him irrelevant.

Missing on a second round pick is rough, but I think we need to move on.

Steelersfan87
11-16-2012, 09:29 PM
Worilds has a share of the team lead in sacks with one start this season. And don't forget that he was and possibly still is recovering from an injury just as much as Harrison. An injury that he played through last year. There's simply not a large enough body of work to place a firm judgement on him with regards to his ability to be at least a 3-4 year future at ROLB. But attempting to compare him to an All-Pro talent like Harrison won't help him any.

Bayz101
11-16-2012, 09:43 PM
Worilds has a share of the team lead in sacks with one start this season. And don't forget that he was and possibly still is recovering from an injury just as much as Harrison. An injury that he played through last year. There's simply not a large enough body of work to place a firm judgement on him with regards to his ability to be at least a 3-4 year future at ROLB. But attempting to compare him to an All-Pro talent like Harrison won't help him any.

Worilds is great when he's healthy, but apparently he's never healthy. He's young and injured constantly. We CAN'T have our young guys being injury stricken constantly. That's too much. He needs to get healthy and stay healthy and make an impact on the game or it doesn't matter how many sacks he has. It kills me to see him constantly injured knowing he has the skillset to do every bit as much as Harrison and Woodley can.

Steelersfan87
11-16-2012, 10:45 PM
He's healthy now...and healthier than Chris Carter. Maybe LeBeau SHOULD play Worilds more with Harrison's knee the way it is. But he's not, so what can he do? I don't think he's even missed a practice during the regular season...

Bayz101
11-16-2012, 10:56 PM
He's healthy now...and healthier than Chris Carter. Maybe LeBeau SHOULD play Worilds more with Harrison's knee the way it is. But he's not, so what can he do? I don't think he's even missed a practice during the regular season...

I was under the impression that he was injured again. Makes no sense NOT to have him playing if he's sharing the lead in the sacks category. Pressure a quarterback and you can win games.

Terminator
11-16-2012, 10:56 PM
Worilds had a monster sack on Manning in the opener. That is really all I remember from him this season.

Harrison, you can tell, is either scared of reinjuring himself, or is still not 100% from his injury. I noticed he can't do his "spin move" anymore when going up against linemen.

He looked good in the Eagles game though. He got 3 hit on Vick, and you could tell Vick wanted none of that when Harrison got close. I sure hope he does something Sunday night. Would love to see him plant Flacco on his ass.

Terminator
11-16-2012, 10:58 PM
http://www.steelers.com/team/roster/Jason-Worilds/5c613eee-74dc-496d-85ff-b2dfb90b0b14

Worilds has 3 sacks this year, tied with Larry Foote

tanda10506
11-16-2012, 11:08 PM
If he wasn't held every play he would still be a top pass rusher. The official stance of the NFL evidently is to ignore the obvious as long as it puts Harrison at a disadvantage, so he is going to continue to struggle till he can get as low as he used to when running around offensive tackles. He's always been held this much, in 2010 he might as well of been pulling a plow, yet he's so bad ass that he still overcame it. He will generate a good pass rush again as soon as his knee allows it (if it ever does again). He is used in pass coverage a lot more now and it's likely because he is struggling in the pass rush. Either way he's better then Carter/Worilds, at least the run D is better with Harrison back. What I wonder is why Woodley is in pass coverage so much. He should be unleahsed on opposing QB's IMO.

VTsteel
11-17-2012, 12:43 AM
I watched Harrison on defense, and Wallace on offense. Here's what I saw:

Wallace doesn't get double-teamed NEARLY as much as people claim, and Harrison gets held on every other blitz. He's not angling enough to get around the end, and that has a lot to do with him recovering from knee surgery. I expect him to hit a hot streak at some point in the next few weeks, and the same goes for Woodley.


Brother I hope you are right.

It is definitely Woodleys turn to have a MONSTER game

steelfury02
11-17-2012, 07:13 AM
somebody needs to - this isn't 08' version of Flacco - have to generate pressure all night long

BKAnthem
11-17-2012, 09:33 AM
He's clearly not 100%, But he is desperately needed and he's a warrior so what he has left he lays it out on the field....But just because he's not going around and over O-lineman doesn't mean Deebo is gone forever...he just needs time to heal...

StainlessStill
11-17-2012, 11:07 AM
I've also seen Harrison get the SHIT held out of him because of him actually beating his man one on one. This is a dude that had surgery, on his KNEE, in August. He didn't participate in ANY team activities as far as conditioning was concerned. There's STILL a whole half-season to play and he's currently working his way into playing shape. He's NOT in top form, but his presence still needs to be accounted for.

I'd take a 70% James Harrison over most of the starting OLB's today! Dude is still a beast.

Fire Arians
11-17-2012, 11:49 AM
he hasn't been taking over games like he has been in the past, but he's been playing solid as far as sticking to his assignments and sealing the edge.

stb_steeler
11-17-2012, 02:34 PM
He gets choke holds all the time in every game. He needs to learn the Dwight Freeney move!

lotas
11-17-2012, 09:47 PM
Harrison gets held all the time, and it never draws a flag. Goodell makes sure of it.

steelfury02
11-18-2012, 07:11 AM
the holding is def true - Harrison could easily have 5 to 6 sacks by now. And that is a Harrison at about 70%. Including Woodley, these guys have a ton of roles outside of attacking the QB - and the article about Dick's halftime adjustment v. Chiefs is a perfect example.

On the other side of the ball - I have confidence that Haley has done all he can to put Byron and co. in some good positions to succeed tonight. Bottom line - and you can quote me - if we don't turn the ball over on O - we will win.

MG08
11-18-2012, 04:26 PM
'Next man up........."

BlaZeQuietly
11-18-2012, 04:29 PM
the holding is def true - Harrison could easily have 5 to 6 sacks by now. And that is a Harrison at about 70%. Including Woodley, these guys have a ton of roles outside of attacking the QB - and the article about Dick's halftime adjustment v. Chiefs is a perfect example.

On the other side of the ball - I have confidence that Haley has done all he can to put Byron and co. in some good positions to succeed tonight. Bottom line - and you can quote me - if we don't turn the ball over on O - we will win.

any bum off the street could have told me that lol:tt02:

GoFor7
11-18-2012, 04:36 PM
Under Dan Rooney, didn't the Steelers think it was better to part ways with a player one year too soon rather than one year too late? I understand the Steelers treat their veterans well, but too much sentiment can be bad for the team (i.e., Aaron Smith).

cubanstogie
11-18-2012, 05:14 PM
He isn't playing as well as Foote thats for sure.:stirthepot:

Terminator
11-18-2012, 05:29 PM
I'm feeling a Harrison sack on Flacco tonight. He has ALWAYS had his number.

TRH
11-18-2012, 06:13 PM
to be honest, i'm tired of hearing about how "he's held" all the time. The fact is, he' s not "held" any more than anyone else.
Due to injuries, he's a shadow of the player he once was - about the only advantage i've seen so far is that he has to be accounted for by the other guys.

austinfrench76
11-18-2012, 06:31 PM
Harrison has definitley lost something but we need him to step up tonight! No matter what Woodley does, JH needs a HUGE game. Here we go.......!!!!!!!!!!!