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View Full Version : Ben says it was an Incomplete Pass


TheDude
11-05-2012, 12:46 PM
Rooney Rants agrees with #7. that was clearly an incomplete pass. Good thing i had some tin foil because Duder began to think the fix was in.

if you look at this view (http://www.rooneyrants.com), it clearly looks like an incomplete pass

Millers the sh!t
11-05-2012, 12:56 PM
Well 90% of the world agrees as well, but unfortunately that cross dressing eyeliner wearing facelift having transgendered ****** of an official Said it was a fumble when it clearly wasn't. Goodell came to new York and told the reffs to handfeed a victory to the giants to make up for sandy. Unfortunately another force of nature that came northwest of jersey, had something else to say about it.

austinfrench76
11-05-2012, 01:52 PM
Brady, Manning, Rodgers, etc...GET THAT CALL REVERSED! BS. I'm still pissed. It could have and most times would ahve cost us that game. Screw Bill Leavy! Hope he gets fined or fired.

Riddle_Of_Steel
11-05-2012, 02:19 PM
That was a BS call. if I ever saw one. You KNOW for a fact-- Tom Brady/Aaron Rodgers/Peyton Manning would have gotten that call.

Now, the refs are going to have to make a distinction whether or not your hand inside the glove lost its grip on the ball, even if it did not leave your glove until the arm is coming forward.

They now need to install X-ray beams on the replay cameras so they can see the position of the QBs hand-bones to see if his hand is still gripping the ball or not-- doesn't matter if the ball leaves the QB's hands or not.

What ever happened to the tuck rule?

Steelersfan87
11-05-2012, 11:02 PM
The NFL rule book states: NFL Rule 3, Section 22, Article 2, Note 2. When [an offensive] player is holding the ball to pass it forward, any intentional forward movement of his arm starts a forward pass, even if the player loses possession of the ball as he is attempting to tuck it back toward his body. Also, if the player has tucked the ball into his body and then loses possession, it is a fumble.

http://sinfl.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/bentuck.gif?w=509&h=272

http://nfl.si.com/2012/11/04/ben-roethlisberger-fumble-vs-giants-ignites-tuck-rule-controversy/?sct=hp_t11_a3&eref=sihp

CanuckCurtain
11-06-2012, 01:27 AM
Well 90% of the world agrees as well, but unfortunately that cross dressing eyeliner wearing facelift having transgendered ****** of an official Said it was a fumble when it clearly wasn't. Goodell came to new York and told the reffs to handfeed a victory to the giants to make up for sandy. Unfortunately another force of nature that came northwest of jersey, had something else to say about it.

thats why i love this victory even more..our team fought through and won...in your face goodell:applaudit:

tanda10506
11-06-2012, 02:45 AM
thats why i love this victory even more..our team fought through and won...in your face goodell:applaudit:

Agreed. At the time I was absolutely furious and thought it might cost us the game, but now that it's over and we won it makes it that much sweeter. IMO Goodell and his refs intentionally tried to steer the game to the Giants, but even after everything that rat b****** had his refs throw at us, the Steelers were still too good to lose even though they were playing the SB champs in their own house and had just arrived a few hours before the game. Yes, this victory tastes as good as an ice cold beer on a hot summer day! :tt03::tt03::tt03:

BlaZeQuietly
11-06-2012, 08:29 AM
I do see where the ball did come loose just after his arm was hit, but it appears after it jarred loose that regained a grip, a weak one, but still a grip on the ball, then he tried to hold onto the ball instead of throwing it. What a BS call, the one in the endzone, the illegal blow the the head that bruised victor cruz's ribs was even worse, this one is at least somewhat debatable, that other one made me so mad I almost smashed my tv.

WVABE
11-06-2012, 09:01 AM
We had some great 4th qtr Karma though.

FanSince72
11-06-2012, 09:37 AM
In cases like this I like to go by the "Madden Rule": "If it looks like a fumble, then it's a fumble" and I think in Ben's case it was clearly a fumble.

I've never cared much for all of these special "rules" like the "Tuck Rule" or the "Empty Hand" or "The Arm Was Moving Forward" and all that other bullshit.
To me, if a player loses control of the ball before his knee hits the ground then it's a fumble - period.

I think the real argument here would be whether it would be ruled a fumble if it happened to Eli, or Peyton, or Rogers, etc. and that's where politics gets involved and that's what gets me pissed off.
I don't have a problem with rules of any kind as long as they're applied evenly.

steelfury02
11-06-2012, 09:48 AM
when you have the Steelers completely giving up on the play because the rule is such a grey area - something is wrong. Even some of the Giants stopped and weren't heading in the opposite direction to block. That says a lot.

If anything, call it a fumble like you said, but just give the Giants possession at the spot of the recovery. As of now, it is too open to interpretation, hence a free ride into the end zone when at least half the players on the field aren't trying anymore cause "what exactly is going on now? I don't understand!"

You can bet your butt if this DID happen to Brady, Rogers, Eli, or Manning(s) - the media would have created an absolute poo-storm over this.

Has anyone heard from the NFL yet on any of the calls in question?

beer72
11-06-2012, 09:59 AM
What about the clip on miller? After the fact... steeler nation contributed greatly to hurricane sandy is all I have to say....even tho I didn't want too

steelfury02
11-06-2012, 10:00 AM
yup, don't hear anyone talking about that either

come on NFL - I'm waiting to hear from you

FanSince72
11-06-2012, 10:17 AM
The NFL rule book states: NFL Rule 3, Section 22, Article 2, Note 2. When [an offensive] player is holding the ball to pass it forward, any intentional forward movement of his arm starts a forward pass, even if the player loses possession of the ball as he is attempting to tuck it back toward his body. Also, if the player has tucked the ball into his body and then loses possession, it is a fumble.

http://sinfl.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/bentuck.gif?w=509&h=272

http://nfl.si.com/2012/11/04/ben-roethlisberger-fumble-vs-giants-ignites-tuck-rule-controversy/?sct=hp_t11_a3&eref=sihp

The video in your post says it all.

Watch Ben's left hand as the ball leaves his right hand. He looks like he's trying to grab for the ball and I have to ask myself why he would do that?
If his intention was to pass the ball, or if he WAS passing the ball, then why would he seem to be trying to get the ball back unless he was thinking "fumble"?

GoFor7
11-06-2012, 12:00 PM
The NFL admitted the refs made a mistake in the Panthers-Redskins game. I wonder why they haven't said anything about Steelers-Giants?

FanSince72
11-06-2012, 12:31 PM
The NFL admitted the refs made a mistake in the Panthers-Redskins game. I wonder why they haven't said anything about Steelers-Giants?



Does it really matter at this point?

jiminpa
11-06-2012, 07:10 PM
The NFL admitted the refs made a mistake in the Panthers-Redskins game. I wonder why they haven't said anything about Steelers-Giants?Um, because it was no mistake.

harrison'samonster
11-06-2012, 07:44 PM
In cases like this I like to go by the "Madden Rule": "If it looks like a fumble, then it's a fumble" and I think in Ben's case it was clearly a fumble.


I don't disagree with the idea that if it looks like a fumble call it a fumble. But I don't think it looks like a fumble in this case. To me it looks like an incomplete pass.

The ball is in the hand going forward and comes out near the end of the motion and goes forward into the ground well after contact with the defensive player.

teegre
11-06-2012, 07:59 PM
The video in your post says it all.

Watch Ben's left hand as the ball leaves his right hand. He looks like he's trying to grab for the ball and I have to ask myself why he would do that?
If his intention was to pass the ball, or if he WAS passing the ball, then why would he seem to be trying to get the ball back unless he was thinking "fumble"?

Before I comment further, think about this:
BB routinely pump-fakes the ball.

Here is what I see:

1. JPP hits BB's arm, and the ball dislodges slightly. 2. BB regains control. 3. As BB's arm continues to move forward, he decides not to pass... but, the ball comes out anyway.

Summation:
A pump-fake that turned into an INC pass.

Look at it closely, and at the very end, think "pump fake." It clearly looks like a pump-fake to me.

Hawaii 5-0
11-06-2012, 08:05 PM
Does it really matter at this point?

no, it doesn't. all is well that ends well...:thumbsup:

FanSince72
11-06-2012, 08:20 PM
Before I comment further, think about this:
BB routinely pump-fakes the ball.

Here is what I see:

1. JPP hits BB's arm, and the ball dislodges slightly. 2. BB regains control. 3. As BB's arm continues to move forward, he decides not to pass... but, the ball comes out anyway.

Summation:
A pump-fake that turned into an INC pass.

Look at it closely, and at the very end, think "pump fake." It clearly looks like a pump-fake to me.

OK, I get what you're saying but Ben is known for his one-handed pump fake (which is why it works so well) and maybe it was his intention to do just that.
But to me it looked as if he was going to dump a short pass, then got his arm hit and tried to force it and realized he couldn't and then went after the ball.

At best I could say that it was a half-assed attempt at a "tuck" followed by a big, "Oops!", but I can't see a pump fake.

teegre
11-06-2012, 08:39 PM
OK, I get what you're saying but Ben is known for his one-handed pump fake (which is why it works so well) and maybe it was his intention to do just that.
But to me it looked as if he was going to dump a short pass, then got his arm hit and tried to force it and realized he couldn't and then went after the ball.

At best I could say that it was a half-assed attempt at a "tuck" followed by a big, "Oops!", but I can't see a pump fake.

Is this one of those times when one person sees the "old lady" and the other person sees the "young lady"...???

How about this:

BB tries ot go short, but then decides to pull the ball back, because the DB is too close. It would essentially be the same thing: a pump fake... but, with an actual receiver in front of him.

Anyway... I see him swinging his hand back to his body, because he is either going to pump fake or not pass... and the ball comes loose. The important part is: BB had regained control (before he decided to bring it back/decided to pump fake).

But... I could juts be seeing the "young lady"...

steelbelieve
11-06-2012, 08:43 PM
Is this one of those times when one person sees the "old lady" and the other person sees the "young lady"...???

How about this:

BB tries ot go short, but then decides to pull the ball back, because the DB is too close. It would essentially be the same thing: a pump fake... but, with an actual receiver in front of him.

Anyway... I see him swinging his hand back to his body, because he is either going to pump fake or not pass... and the ball comes loose. The important part is: BB had regained control (before he decided to bring it back/decided to pump fake).

But... I could juts be seeing the "young lady"...

you're getting too caught up by what his intent was or wasn't. He's in the process of passing the ball, his arm got hit but his arm is now moving forward with the ball in his hand. That's an attempted pass. period. That was an incomplete pass pure and simple and to believe anything else is to unecessarily complicate what was going on there.

Steelersfan87
11-06-2012, 08:55 PM
you're getting too caught up by what his intent was or wasn't. He's in the process of passing the ball, his arm got hit but his arm is now moving forward with the ball in his hand. That's an attempted pass. period. That was an incomplete pass pure and simple and to believe anything else is to unecessarily complicate what was going on there.

Precisely.

fer522
11-06-2012, 09:18 PM
The NFL admitted the refs made a mistake in the Panthers-Redskins game. I wonder why they haven't said anything about Steelers-Giants?

It wasn't the refs fault, they were just doing their "JOB":wink02:

FanSince72
11-07-2012, 12:02 AM
Is this one of those times when one person sees the "old lady" and the other person sees the "young lady"...???

How about this:

BB tries ot go short, but then decides to pull the ball back, because the DB is too close. It would essentially be the same thing: a pump fake... but, with an actual receiver in front of him.

Anyway... I see him swinging his hand back to his body, because he is either going to pump fake or not pass... and the ball comes loose. The important part is: BB had regained control (before he decided to bring it back/decided to pump fake).

But... I could juts be seeing the "young lady"...

OK, I'll go with that. :thumbsup:

It's actually closer to what I was trying to say only you said it better!

GoFor7
11-07-2012, 09:39 AM
Um, because it was no mistake.

Well, not all of us have time to watch every Steeler game I guess. :noidea:

Anyways, since the Steelers won it really doesn't matter. I just find it odd the NFL only acknowledges bad officiating in one game but ignores other games.

teegre
11-07-2012, 10:09 AM
Well, not all of us have time to watch every Steeler game I guess. :noidea:

Anyways, since the Steelers won it really doesn't matter. I just find it odd the NFL only acknowledges bad officiating in one game but ignores other games.

I think that he's trying to say that it wasn't a "mistake"... Goodell INTENDED there to be bad calls. Makes sense?

GoFor7
11-07-2012, 01:19 PM
I think that he's trying to say that it wasn't a "mistake"... Goodell INTENDED there to be bad calls. Makes sense?

Hmm.... good point.


$10 billion dollar fine for you.