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View Full Version : Keenan Lewis Worth 8 Million a Year?


SteelersCanada
11-07-2012, 04:42 PM
I was looking around bleacher report and stumbled across this article describing 'stars' that are going to receive huge pay days next year ...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1399370-18-nfl-stars-that-are-going-to-get-paid-in-2013

... and I knew what I was going to find for the most part. Mike Wallace also makes an appearance, which should come a surprise to no one. But, what I found more interesting was the fact that he mentions Keenan. More importantly, he says, "... But Lewis will command at least $8 million a year and could get more." and it was kind of eye opening. The comparison of numbers puts this a little more in perspective for you guys.

The CBs that are making around 8 million dollars this year are ...

Charles Tillman - $7 966 667
Brandon Flowers - $8 000 000
Antonio Cromartie - $8 250 000
Leon Hall - $8 500 000

Now, don't get me wrong. Keenan has been playing tremendously this year and has taken huge strides in improving his game. However, that being said, he's not in the same league as these guys yet - and it's really not even close. These guys have been doing it consistently, year in and year out, for a long time. Say what you want about Cromartie, but he completely shut down Andre Johnson vs. the Texans and the Jets left him on an island.

Breaking down the stats, Tillman (2), Flowers (2) and Cromartie (3) are leading Lewis in interceptions. Keenan currently has 0. I know that takeaways aren't necessarily the most important stat, but it goes to show that these guys can not only blanket receivers and tip passes but also take it away and give it back to their respective offenses.

I think Keenan still has a long way to go and a lot to prove to the Steelers before he's worth this kind of money, but that's just my opinion. What do you guys think?

steelfury02
11-07-2012, 04:44 PM
This season: Lewis > Asomugha

Bayz101
11-07-2012, 04:48 PM
He's having an excellent year, and I do believe he's the future of our defensive backfield. That being said, I have NO idea what to pay him. :chuckle:

Stu Pidasso
11-07-2012, 09:15 PM
Unless he comes up with 7 INT's, or starts being called "Lewis Island", I don't see him getting more than 4 mil.

jjpro11
11-07-2012, 10:05 PM
That seems pretty crazy. I mean, within the past decade we've also seen Bryant McFadden look like the next shutdown corner, only to have his play fall off a cliff after a couple years. Same with William Gay. Although it wasn't until Gay became a full-time starter after McFadden left, when everyone realized he wasn't cut out for that role. To an even further extent, most people thought Anthony Smith was going to unseat Ryan Clark as a starter. Boy were we all wrong.

It's basically risk vs reward. Sign a guy to a multi-year early, when he has shown promise, but not consistency.. Or wait for the player to become a Pro Bowl caliber player and then be forced to break the bank. We kind of did this with Antonio Brown last off-season, although he was a much safer risk than most.

tony hipchest
11-07-2012, 10:05 PM
signing FA's is a gamble. sometimes you lose big (asomugha, mario williams) and sometimes you strike gold like we did with james farrior.

alot of smart teams want to catch a guy right before he hits his upswing and prime of their careers. other teams take the same risky gamble of trying to catch falling stars.

so while we dont know what lies ahead for lewis, a team may certainly believe he is worth the gamble. i doubt any of us has studied the coaches film and graded every single play he has played in during his career but the scouts shopping for a CB will. on tv theres plenty of plays where he (or any cb's arent even on the screen, so it is hard to guage howw good they really are in coverage unless the ball goes there way. how many times does there coverage completely prevent a qb from even looking their way?

average cb's are making $6mil/year. the cream of the crop are making about $12mil.

in his first year starting, lewis is looking like a #1 CB on the leagues #1 pass defensive unit. he has also learned dick lebeaus system which is the most complex in the league.

8 mill may not be that far off the mark. people thought we overpaid ike on his first contract extension, and he turned out to be worth it. i think the steelers do the same and make him a higher priority than mike wallace (unfortunate but nature of the biz).

i think the steelers would be tickled pink to lock him up for 5 years/$32.5mil with 15-16 guaranteed. i think he might be happy with that hometown discount. im sure the agent will not be citing the older players with less upside listed above.

note: peanut tillman has been playing phenominal this year and being talked about as the defensive mvp along with jj watt (clearly outplaying his contract). sporscenter had a feature on tillman and how he forced the four fumbles in sundays game vs the titans. if you havent seen it, it is freaking amazing. i have never seen it perfected like an artform.

pittpete
11-07-2012, 10:28 PM
i think the steelers would be tickled pink to lock him up for 5 years/$32.5mil with 15-16 guaranteed
That sounds about right

Bayz101
11-07-2012, 11:19 PM
Keenan Lewis is playing respectably at his position, and doing all of whats expected of him as a CB. With that being said, lets not forget the most important thing of all: Turnovers. Playmakers get the cash. I expect Lewis to have an interception or two before playoff time.

teegre
11-07-2012, 11:44 PM
To answer the title of this thread: YES.

He is young, and just getting started. He has always had the right physical tools, but lacked the mental "fortitude" (for lack of a better word). Now, he seems to be rock-solid mentally... and he will only get better. I could realistically see a five year $40 million dollar deal being given to him.

Bayz101
11-07-2012, 11:51 PM
5 years, 30 million with 10-12 million dollars guaranteed. I'd hand that to him based on what he's done so far, and his potential.

Fire Arians
11-08-2012, 12:01 AM
5 years, 30 million with 10-12 million dollars guaranteed. I'd hand that to him based on what he's done so far, and his potential.

i agree, that looks fair

austinfrench76
11-08-2012, 12:01 AM
I agree that we should put him above Wallace. I don't think we will pay him 8 mill a year. Agree that it's probably in the 5yr/32 million dollar range.

bornaSteelersfan
11-08-2012, 03:19 AM
I will return to this at the end of the season. His contract is up at the end of it. We will see what he is truly worth. Too many games to be played until then.

SteelersCanada
11-08-2012, 09:56 AM
average cb's are making $6mil/year. the cream of the crop are making about $12mil.

in his first year starting, lewis is looking like a #1 CB on the leagues #1 pass defensive unit. he has also learned dick lebeaus system which is the most complex in the league.

i think the steelers would be tickled pink to lock him up for 5 years/$32.5mil with 15-16 guaranteed. i think he might be happy with that hometown discount.

That's true, there's a lot of average or mediocre CBs making around 6 million which is a little bit shocking to be completely honest with you. I also agree with the guy that said Lewis is outplaying Nnamdi - by a fairly substantial margin. The fact that Asomugha is making 11 million is also part of the Eagles' problems, but that's a whole other can of worms.

I think Keenan is honestly developing into our star in the secondary and deserves a pay raise, but what that pay raise is, I'm not sure yet. He hasn't made any game changing plays to help this team win, but I'm sure we all remember the missed pick against the Titans. If he makes that pick, the Steelers are 6-2. Guys that are making 8 million a year make that play and end the game for their team - something that Keenan hasn't been able to do yet with any consistency. To make the bigger bucks, you have to show more than high upside and potential in your youth.

I'd agree with Keenan taking the hometown discount if the Steelers keep Wallace. They've been friends since they were 5 - 6 and I feel that when the extension comes for Wallace, Keenan would accept a 5 year / 28 - 32 million deal.

He's going to be great, but I'm not sure he's worth that top 10 CB type money yet.

LVSteelersfan
11-08-2012, 01:30 PM
Lewis has made several game saving plays. They don't have to always be turnovers. Knocking that TD away from AJ Green comes to mind. And sending people packing on third down more than once in the past few games. He has been money. Not sure he is worth the 8 mil though.

EbonySteel86
11-08-2012, 10:03 PM
I don't know about 8mil. but a few more plays like he been doing and he will make the pro bowl like he promised.

SteelersCanada
01-21-2013, 02:27 PM
I think this is relevant again now that the free agency talk is going to heat up.

Would you guys be happy with a 5 year / 40 million for Lewis?

Steelers5895
01-21-2013, 02:51 PM
any team can have him for that. if he was an 8 million a year CB we wouldnt have had William Gay and Mcfadden keepng him out of the starting role. see ya.

lloydwoodson
01-21-2013, 04:30 PM
No. Lewis is not worth 8 million a year. He has one career interception. QBs throwing at him have a rating of 80. That is right around average. Lewis will never generate turnovers- he will never be thrown at more often than he was in his first season as a starter.

I don't get the disconnect between fans wanting more turnovers and then also wanting to resign the number 2 corner who doesn't force turnovers for just under premier market value. There is no way the Steelers can sign Lewis for 8 million per without seriously damaging other parts of the team.

The emergence of Cortez Allen who is Keenan Lewis + turnovers makes this a no-brainer. Either draft a cb this round in the first or in 2015 when Taylor is through and pay them 5 mill a year to be the number one corner. Pay Allen NOW!!! Allen has shown he is going to be a game-changing corner... don't wait until he is asking 8-10 million per year.

Keep Lewis for 4.5 or less. There are too many big salaries on defense.

If Patrick Peterson and Asante Samuel are making 4.8 per year it is good enough for Keenan Lewis.

The Seattle Seahawks entire secondary will be making less than 8 million in 2013! I am talking about 5 corners and 4 safeties. Stop the madness!

Justp94
01-21-2013, 04:35 PM
Apparently he wants 5 years for something around 35 mil, that's not going to happen lol.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1493180-cost-effective-moves-the-pittsburgh-steelers-can-make-this-offseason/page/2

pete74
01-21-2013, 04:53 PM
Someone will pay him but it won't be us. We can't afford to sign a backup guard let alone a starting corner. If it was my call I would cut Taylor and give Lewis his money

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
01-21-2013, 05:26 PM
Someone will pay him but it won't be us. We can't afford to sign a backup guard let alone a starting corner. If it was my call I would cut Taylor and give Lewis his money

I would not be surprised if that happens this off-season.

WokeUpWithaWoodley
01-21-2013, 05:31 PM
Because of our cap situation I see it being very hard to keep him. He's going to be one of the best corners in free agency and they always develop a high market esp in this era of a passing league.

To be able to sign him we would mosl likely have to get rid of Harrison, kiesel, colon, Clark(maybe) or Troy, and not sign foster.

So before we talk about money I would ask who you would be ok with getting rid on the team to clear cap space to sign lewis

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
01-21-2013, 05:38 PM
I expect us to cut Harrison, Keisel & Colon and like I said above I would not be surprised if Ike is cut also.

WokeUpWithaWoodley
01-21-2013, 05:44 PM
I expect us to cut Harrison, Keisel & Colon and like I said above I would not be surprised if Ike is cut also.

I would expect those minus Ike to be cut.

I suspect our pass rush to be the same last year, so having Ike for 2 more years and having Lewis and Allen. Three good corners is crucial.

Justp94
01-21-2013, 06:20 PM
I would expect those minus Ike to be cut.

I suspect our pass rush to be the same last year, so having Ike for 2 more years and having Lewis and Allen. Three good corners is crucial.

I gotta troll you here... he said "like" not Ike lol. :p

WokeUpWithaWoodley
01-21-2013, 06:25 PM
I gotta troll you here... he said "like" not Ike lol. :p

He did say Ike at the end

Justp94
01-21-2013, 06:35 PM
He did say Ike at the end

lol nvm I missed the Ike at the end of the post hahaha, anyways yeah back to football. *see my next post reply soon

TRH
01-21-2013, 06:55 PM
we could throw dollar figures around 'til the cows come home - but we have no idea whatsoever what Colbert & co. think they'd actually pay him.
We would have to make a couple of those big-time releases people have been saying we might to even think about entertaining one of these "mid" line offers being thrown around in this forum. We're in a cutting mode - not a throwing-money around mode.

Could happen though. I fully expect the Steelers to light up the fan base and p*ss alot of people off and release a couple of the "untouchables". I think they're finally catching on to the fact that they've held on to more than a few players 1-3 years too long - retaining them for nostalgia and emotion reasons and its coming back to bite.

Justp94
01-21-2013, 06:59 PM
The most logical answers for Colon, Keisel, and Harrison... and hopefully these will help them re-sign Keenan Lewis.

Brett Keisel: Steelers have two choices: ask Keisel to take a pay cut that would save the team about $1.8 million or cut him and free up a little more than $2.8 million in cap space.

James Harrison: Harrison counts more than $10 million against the Steelers' 2013 salary cap. If the Steelers restructure his contract they'd only save less than $3 million. So the options are he takes a pay cut or we cut him.

Willie Colon: He's scheduled to count $7.6 million against the cap in 2013. If the Steelers release him after the Super Bowl, the team would only save $1.2 million. However, If they waited until after June 1st, they would save a total of $4.425 million toward 2013, but would suffer a penalty of $3.225 million against 2014. There's another option here too, we could restructure his contract that is $5.5 million this year into a $4.5 million signing bonus and save $3 million in cap space.


Sources:
Steelers 2013 salary cap options - Offensive Line (http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2013/1/17/3883934/steelers-2013-salary-cap-options-offensive-line-roster-Colon-Foster-Pouncey)
Cost-Effective Moves the Pittsburgh Steelers Can Make This Offseason (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1493180-cost-effective-moves-the-pittsburgh-steelers-can-make-this-offseason)

WokeUpWithaWoodley
01-21-2013, 07:44 PM
The most logical answers for Colon, Keisel, and Harrison... and hopefully these will help them re-sign Keenan Lewis.

Brett Keisel: Steelers have two choices: ask Keisel to take a pay cut that would save the team about $1.8 million or cut him and free up a little more than $2.8 million in cap space.

James Harrison: Harrison counts more than $10 million against the Steelers' 2013 salary cap. If the Steelers restructure his contract they'd only save less than $3 million. So the options are he takes a pay cut or we cut him.

Willie Colon: He's scheduled to count $7.6 million against the cap in 2013. If the Steelers release him after the Super Bowl, the team would only save $1.2 million. However, If they waited until after June 1st, they would save a total of $4.425 million toward 2013, but would suffer a penalty of $3.225 million against 2014. There's another option here too, we could restructure his contract that is $5.5 million this year into a $4.5 million signing bonus and save $3 million in cap space.


Sources:
Steelers 2013 salary cap options - Offensive Line (http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2013/1/17/3883934/steelers-2013-salary-cap-options-offensive-line-roster-Colon-Foster-Pouncey)
Cost-Effective Moves the Pittsburgh Steelers Can Make This Offseason (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1493180-cost-effective-moves-the-pittsburgh-steelers-can-make-this-offseason)

Restructuring contracts is what got us to this predicament and doing more of that will only prolong this problem. I would rather just cut them

casteeler
01-21-2013, 09:36 PM
Absolutely NOT. 0 interception last year

austinfrench76
01-21-2013, 09:45 PM
^^^Agree! Also, with Allen coming along, we just don't hae the money. Sucks that it took him so long to develop.

SteelersCanada
01-21-2013, 11:06 PM
We haven't really been able to see what Allen is capable of yet, though. We've seen him in a very limited role and this might not be indicative of his play. He's made progress and he has come along, sure, but I need to see more of him to make a judgment call.

I'd also give Lewis a 5 year / 35 million dollar deal. He's going to get that somewhere else, and I'd rather him and Allen (assuming he continues his progression) be our two shut-down CBs for the next 5 - 6 years than having to constantly worry about giving up the big play. That way, we don't have to spend a high-ish pick on a CB, either, and can address other needs.

lloydwoodson
01-22-2013, 12:49 AM
Honestly the corners that have come from the Steelers most recently were Gay and McFadden and they have been busts for the Cardinals. I don't think Steelers corners have been a hot commodity. Ike has typically gone against the other teams best receivers. The secondary got TORCHED when Ike went down. The Chargers and Cowboys put up enormous yardage immediately after Ike's injury.

Asante Samuel is making 4.8 million a year- he has the NFL record with 4 pick 6s in the postseason. Samuel has 50 career ints.

I just do not see a market value of 7 million for a player with 1 career interception who has been solid but no where near a shutdown corner and who has not played against the other team's best receiver. I would be disappointed to see Lewis price himself out of Pittsburgh but that is a very real possibility.

pittpete
01-22-2013, 01:09 AM
Think we have to sign Lewis.
Allen stays at the nickel and takes over next year for Ike.
I'm not impressed with Curtis Brown nor any of the other DB's.
At the rate that we develop DB's resigning Lewis is a no brainer IMO.

BLACK_AND_YELLOW
01-22-2013, 01:35 AM
We cant keep letting guys go when Its contract time if so we will never be on top again, cause what if Ike goes down(hope not) and if we don't have Lewis and all we have is Allen we are screwed just facts and please don't say draft a corner in the draft cause we have to many needs.

bornaSteelersfan
01-22-2013, 02:52 AM
Keenan might leave us if someone pays the "big bucks". In my mind, he is not worth more than $5 million a year. That would still be a nice big payday for him and he may take it to play for us (especially with Carnell Lake's coaching) instead of going elsewhere. I said the day Cortez Allen was drafted:

"4) Cortez Allen - Excellent value with raw talent that hasn't yet been trained. His history says football hasn't been the top focus as far as time in his life (Due to his college). With Steelers coaching and a good work ethic, he could become THE shut down corner in a few years. He also has much softer hands than Ike."
04-30-2011, 06:13 PM Consensus: worst draft in AFCN

He is the eventual replacement for Ike, not Keenan.

ZoneBlitzer
01-22-2013, 05:11 AM
Start negotiations at 8 million.
Toss him a pen from across the table to sign it.
Then for every botched catch, knock the price down a million.

That should whittle him down to 4 million.

wwhickok
01-22-2013, 06:51 AM
With all due respect to Lewis he is no Tillman

Justp94
01-22-2013, 07:13 AM
Someone will pay him but it won't be us. We can't afford to sign a backup guard let alone a starting corner. If it was my call I would cut Taylor and give Lewis his money
You saw what happened to our secondary when Ike Taylor was out at the end of the Year right??? Cutting Taylor is a horrible idea, he's the only corner on our team that can shut down A.J. Green and other elite wide receivers.

lloydwoodson
01-22-2013, 10:01 PM
You saw what happened to our secondary when Ike Taylor was out at the end of the Year right??? Cutting Taylor is a horrible idea, he's the only corner on our team that can shut down A.J. Green and other elite wide receivers.

I agree 100%. The Chargers and Cowboys games were disasters with Ike out of the lineup. Ike is probably the key player in the secondary at this point with Clark a close second. Ike gets burned once in a while (which corner doesn't) but his play over the years has been tremendous.

Andy Dalton shuts down AJ Green imo. Dalton has played well in his first two seasons but he has a long way to go as a player. Dalton is terrible against the Steelers.

casteeler
01-22-2013, 11:21 PM
The Steelers don't have a CB worth 8 million a year and that includes Taylor. Timmons led all Steelers with 3 ints last year, the CBs on this team are very replaceable because none of them are exceptional as a matter of fact during a few games last year they looked awful. Rivers,Romo and even the 3rd string QB for the Browns ate them alive. If Lewis decides to go elsewhere big f#*king deal,go out and find another

harrison'samonster
01-22-2013, 11:23 PM
The Steelers don't have a CB worth 8 million a year and that includes Taylor. Timmons led all Steelers with 3 ints last year, the CBs on this team are very replaceable because none of them are exceptional as a matter of fact during a few games last year they looked awful. Rivers,Romo and even the 3rd string QB for the Browns ate them alive. If Lewis decides to go elsewhere big f#*king deal,go out and find another

wasn't that the stretch where the starting CB's were injured?

casteeler
01-22-2013, 11:46 PM
wasn't that the stretch where the starting CB's were injured?

Yes,but even with the starters in I didn't see anything worth 8mil a year. When you play a style of defense that depends on CBs playing "on an island" they need to be outstanding.... And they were not.

BlaZeQuietly
01-22-2013, 11:47 PM
Lewis is one of the few players that played with heart this year, I'd give him 10 million a year for 20 years.

casteeler
01-22-2013, 11:56 PM
Lewis is one of the few players that played with heart this year, I'd give him 10 million a year for 20 years.

Lewis might have played with heart but that doesn't make him worthy of big money. This team pays a lot of its players way too much for what they produce

BlaZeQuietly
01-23-2013, 12:04 AM
Lewis might have played with heart but that doesn't make him worthy of big money. This team pays a lot of its players way too much for what they produce

That was a joke, I do think we should find a way to keep him though. Pass protection has been one of our strong points. Besides I really like the look on his face when he plays, like he actually cares, ya know?

Neil-Still-Rules-14
01-23-2013, 02:13 AM
I would certainly say he is the least expendable of the all the UFAs.

lloydwoodson
01-23-2013, 02:29 AM
The Steelers don't have a CB worth 8 million a year and that includes Taylor. Timmons led all Steelers with 3 ints last year, the CBs on this team are very replaceable because none of them are exceptional as a matter of fact during a few games last year they looked awful. Rivers,Romo and even the 3rd string QB for the Browns ate them alive. If Lewis decides to go elsewhere big f#*king deal,go out and find another

wasn't that the stretch where the starting CB's were injured?

Yes, yes it was. Ike didn't play the last 4 games of the season. According to casteeler this does not exempt Ike from culpability in the Steelers poor pass defense to end the season. :chuckle:

Lewis had a hip flexor that he suffered in I think the second Ravens game. Josh Victorian and Robert Golden were called into action as a last resort to close the season.

Please also keep in mind the Cowboys had the NFL's 3rd best passing attack (they put up a lot of yards on a lot of teams) and the Chargers only scored one touchdown on a drive they started in their own territory (the rest of their points came off turnovers and drives started in Steelers territory).

casteeler
01-23-2013, 09:30 AM
Matt Hasselbeck put up 300 yards passing and helped put the Titans in position for a game winning field goal with Ike,Lewis and Allen in the game. I'm not disputing the fact that injuries plagued the team or Lewis is a good CB,what I am saying is that 8 million is a huge amount of money for a CB that doesn't have 8 million talent(not yet). Would I like to keep Lewis? Sure but go back and look at player stats, turnover are a massive part of today's NFL and the leading CB in INTs is Allen 2,then Ike with a grand total of 1 on the entire year.

teegre
01-23-2013, 11:32 AM
As I mentioned earlier in the season (in this thread actually):
YES.

He is on the cusp of being a very special CB... and he will & should (IMO) be paid accordingly.

Why spend draft pick after draft pick trying to "find" the guy, when the guy is right there. Sign him & Cortez Allen... and the Steelers would not need to draft a CB for ten years.

harrison'samonster
01-23-2013, 11:46 AM
As I mentioned earlier in the season (in this thread actually):
YES.

He is on the cusp of being a very special CB... and he will & should (IMO) be paid accordingly.

Why spend draft pick after draft pick trying to "find" the guy, when the guy is right there. Sign him & Cortez Allen... and the Steelers would not need to draft a CB for ten years.

I very much agree, especially with the way the draft can be a win or lose, we know we've got players who have potential to excel at the position.

SteelersCanada
01-23-2013, 12:06 PM
If he really is asking for just a 5 year / 35 million deal, we should sign him tomorrow. That's fairly cheap and if he continues to work with Carnell, then the only way he can go is up. He flashed his potential often this year and if he learns how to catch and bring down INTs, then he's a perennial pro-bowl CB and for 7 million / year, that's a good deal.

stiller39
01-23-2013, 12:29 PM
Lewis is an up and coming corner and the stillers should pay him accordingly. He should not be allowed to leave as Ike is on his way out. These guys are hard to come by and the stillers need to make him a priority and I believe they will......jus saying

stb_steeler
01-23-2013, 03:38 PM
If he really is asking for just a 5 year / 35 million deal, we should sign him tomorrow. That's fairly cheap and if he continues to work with Carnell, then the only way he can go is up. He flashed his potential often this year and if he learns how to catch and bring down INTs, then he's a perennial pro-bowl CB and for 7 million / year, that's a good deal.

I agree....the guy is definitely worth givin a chance..

tanda10506
01-23-2013, 05:14 PM
$7 mil a year is quite a bit for someone who's only had a few good games as a #2 CB. I would sign him because we have a good DB coach and he got better as the season went on. He also showed that he can play big when it matters the most, like he did vs Baltimore. I agree with signing him because of that and because we need to use the draft to fill A LOT of other spots, but it's not like he's a shut down corner who should be guaranteed a contract. Let's hope he becomes one though.

teegre
01-23-2013, 05:25 PM
If he really is asking for just a 5 year / 35 million deal, we should sign him tomorrow. That's fairly cheap and if he continues to work with Carnell, then the only way he can go is up. He flashed his potential often this year and if he learns how to catch and bring down INTs, then he's a perennial pro-bowl CB and for 7 million / year, that's a good deal.

If I was willing to pay him $8 million per year, I'd easily pay him $7 million per year.

So, YES to that deal.

(Psst. Don't tell Keenan that I would have paid him $40 million... let him take the $35 million.)

DanRooney
01-23-2013, 10:37 PM
Has everyone gone retarded? Saying Lewis should get 8 million a season? The same guy who has spent a majority of his rookie contract on the bench? The same guy who wasnt guaranteed to make the roster prior to this season? The same guy who couldn't inseat William Gay? lol. A bad season brings about lots of delusionals. I'd consider 4 million.

SteelersCanada
01-23-2013, 11:07 PM
Has everyone gone retarded? Saying Lewis should get 8 million a season? The same guy who has spent a majority of his rookie contract on the bench? The same guy who wasnt guaranteed to make the roster prior to this season? The same guy who couldn't inseat William Gay? lol. A bad season brings about lots of delusionals. I'd consider 4 million.

Leading the league in pass defenses is a pretty good place to start. To your argument that he couldn't 'unseat Gay', well, no young guys get to play on defense, remember? This is LeBeau's system and, until the players decide it's time to stop playing, they're going to keep playing. It's a ridiculous and harmful ideology, but it's the one that Dick has implemented over recent years and it's part of the reason why we're in cap hell right now.

They progress over their initial three years, start their fourth year and play very, very well and then get lucrative deals. So, we're always behind the eight-ball when it comes to players starting and insist that the older guys play, despite the fact that they're often unproductive. In Keisel's case, they're made defensive Captain.

So, yes, Lewis was probably developing and could have been this good two years ago if given the chance but due to some misguided and flat out stupid sense of loyalty, he didn't get to play. Maybe we need some new life in our defensive staff and not hire Butler who is going to implement the exact same system and ideology that Dick has right now.

Rants over.

So, this does tie into Lewis because frankly, he played like a 7 million / year CB last year and deserves to be paid accordingly. Now, he just needs to work on his hands.

lloydwoodson
01-25-2013, 06:08 AM
Has everyone gone retarded? Saying Lewis should get 8 million a season? The same guy who has spent a majority of his rookie contract on the bench? The same guy who wasnt guaranteed to make the roster prior to this season? The same guy who couldn't inseat William Gay? lol. A bad season brings about lots of delusionals. I'd consider 4 million.

Exactly. The guy has 1 career interception. I was going to sarcastically put up a Keenan Lewis career highlight film of his one interception but I couldn't find it online. He was an above-average corner for the Steelers last season and did a good job, however, he is not a game breaker and the pass defense suffered tremendously when Ike went down. I would like to see Lewis re-signed but let's be real- Mike Wallace should be the priority.

Ben's favourite target does not have a replacement on the roster. Cortez Allen has already shown he is a serviceable #2 corner who causes turnovers making Lewis replaceable.

Wallace and Lewis were both drafted in 2009. 32 career touchdowns vs 1 career interception and everyone has lost their minds and decided Lewis is the priority.

casteeler
01-25-2013, 08:53 AM
Leading the league in pass defenses is a pretty good place to start. To your argument that he couldn't 'unseat Gay', well, no young guys get to play on defense, remember? This is LeBeau's system and, until the players decide it's time to stop playing, they're going to keep playing. It's a ridiculous and harmful ideology, but it's the one that Dick has implemented over recent years and it's part of the reason why we're in cap hell right now.

They progress over their initial three years, start their fourth year and play very, very well and then get lucrative deals. So, we're always behind the eight-ball when it comes to players starting and insist that the older guys play, despite the fact that they're often unproductive. In Keisel's case, they're made defensive Captain.

So, yes, Lewis was probably developing and could have been this good two years ago if given the chance but due to some misguided and flat out stupid sense of loyalty, he didn't get to play. Maybe we need some new life in our defensive staff and not hire Butler who is going to implement the exact same system and ideology that Dick has right now.

Rants over.

So, this does tie into Lewis because frankly, he played like a 7 million / year CB last year and deserves to be paid accordingly. Now, he just needs to work on his hands.

7million dollar CBs intercept passes,Force fumbles and blanket receivers. He is a cover corner who is improving slowly

desertsteel
01-25-2013, 10:14 AM
7million dollar CBs intercept passes,Force fumbles and blanket receivers. He is a cover corner who is improving slowly

And $10 million linebackers sack the QB...

maddog78
01-25-2013, 02:21 PM
7million dollar CBs intercept passes,Force fumbles and blanket receivers. He is a cover corner who is improving slowly

Ike Taylor makes 7 a year. He does none of those things. He's a zone corner who can tackle well in the run game.

casteeler
01-25-2013, 09:54 PM
Ike Taylor makes 7 a year. He does none of those things. He's a zone corner who can tackle well in the run game.

And he is overpaid

harrison'samonster
01-25-2013, 10:38 PM
Ike Taylor usually shuts down the other teams #1 receivers. He's not overpaid.

maddog78
01-26-2013, 09:16 AM
Ike Taylor usually shuts down the other teams #1 receivers. He's not overpaid.

The Steelers run a lot of zone coverage, not man to man. Ike routinely passes off the receiver when he leaves his zone. In man to man, he'd follow him around the field.

Atlanta Dan
01-26-2013, 09:23 AM
Jason LaConfora's opinion on the top DB free agents - Lewis is not on his list


1. Sean Smith: Has the skills and body to be a shutdown guy, and at age 25 is just entering his prime.

2. Cary Williams: Stepped up big time when Lardarius Webb got hurt, and his playoff performances are only helping his cause.

3. Mike Jenkins: Yet to put it all together for the Cowboys but teams were exploring trade options for him last year. Will draw interest.

4. Aqib Talib: If not for his off-field troubles, would be much higher. Staying under the watchful eye of Bill Belichick might be his best move.

5. Tracy Porter: Seems like he has been around longer, but at age 26 well positioned for free agency.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/21613153/top-2013-nfl-free-agents-defense-even-aging-pass-rushers-get-paid

harrison'samonster
01-26-2013, 10:33 AM
The Steelers run a lot of zone coverage, not man to man. Ike routinely passes off the receiver when he leaves his zone. In man to man, he'd follow him around the field.

I thought the Steelers did more pattern-matching (waiting for the recievers to break into their routes and then playing man to man) rather than a exact zone coverage. And I also remember reading that Lebeau's schemes have the CB's playing man to man most of the time (I could be remembering that one wrong).

Either way, when Taylor is covering the other teams #1, they don't have good games. He is such an important part of this team, and hopefully Lewis and Allen will be there the next 10 years holding down the position.

fer522
01-26-2013, 10:33 AM
If he wants more than 5 mil you let him walk, but we need to draft a decent corner R2/R3 and I'm sure coach Lake will turn him into a good/very good DB IMO

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-26-2013, 12:16 PM
I thought the Steelers did more pattern-matching (waiting for the recievers to break into their routes and then playing man to man) rather than a exact zone coverage. And I also remember reading that Lebeau's schemes have the CB's playing man to man most of the time (I could be remembering that one wrong).

Either way, when Taylor is covering the other teams #1, they don't have good games. He is such an important part of this team, and hopefully Lewis and Allen will be there the next 10 years holding down the position.

Exactly!! Zone defense is not covering an area.....as much as covering the WR in that area. Ike normally matches up on the opponents best WR in that zone and does a good job at denying them the ball.

If anybody watched Steelers games this year and didnt see Keenan Lewis as somebody that challenged and broke up passes....then they were not paying attention.

Attached is a link that shows Lewis was #2 in the NFL in passes defended with 23. http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/passes-defended/2012/

So he had 4 more passes defended than Asante Samuel, but Samuel had 3 more INT's. Samuel has a 3 year $18.5mil contract. So $6 million plus is the market price and the fact that Lewis will command $6-8million a season contract is just the reality, so deal with it.

teegre
01-26-2013, 02:44 PM
Exactly!! Zone defense is not covering an area.....as much as covering the WR in that area. Ike normally matches up on the opponents best WR in that zone and does a good job at denying them the ball.

If anybody watched Steelers games this year and didnt see Keenan Lewis as somebody that challenged and broke up passes....then they were not paying attention.

Attached is a link that shows Lewis was #2 in the NFL in passes defended with 23. http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/passes-defended/2012/

So he had 4 more passes defended than Asante Samuel, but Samuel had 3 more INT's. Samuel has a 3 year $18.5mil contract. So $6 million plus is the market price and the fact that Lewis will command $6-8million a season contract is just the reality, so deal with it.

Two more points to add to your post:

1. In XXX, Larry Brown had two INTs... and Deion had ZERO.

2. Sometimes, teams avoid players (eg teams never even tried to throw at Deion)... which meant less INTs.

My point:
INTs are not the end-all be-all.

DanRooney
01-26-2013, 03:51 PM
My point is Keenan Lewis is worth barely 4 million/year.

sluggermatt15
01-27-2013, 09:37 AM
Two more points to add to your post:

1. In XXX, Larry Brown had two INTs... and Deion had ZERO.

2. Sometimes, teams avoid players (eg teams never even tried to throw at Deion)... which meant less INTs.

My point:
INTs are not the end-all be-all.

Good point. And my two cents is that any player can gave a great game at any given time. Your example of Brown and Deion in SB XXX is a prime example. It just so happens Lewis rose to the occasion this season and demonstrated his upside. That doesn't mean any other secondary players can't do that in camp and/or preseason in 2013.

casteeler
01-27-2013, 11:25 AM
My point is Keenan Lewis is worth barely 4 million/year.

Just give them what the want. Keenan Lewis is the greatest thing since sliced bread,pay the man

Blacksburg Zach
01-27-2013, 12:19 PM
Just give them what the want. Keenan Lewis is the greatest thing since sliced bread,pay the man

They better give Lewis anything he wants. He's the next Rod Woodson, only without the interceptions, pro bowl selections, all pro selections, proven long-term track record, and the ability to return kicks. Other than that, they are completely identical.

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-27-2013, 12:37 PM
My point is Keenan Lewis is worth barely 4 million/year.

My point is that Professional Football Administrators, General Managers and Team Owners, in the NFL will likely give him around $6million a year or more contract......despite what message board posters say.

Fun part is that we will see in a few months.

Steelers5895
01-27-2013, 01:32 PM
overpaying marginal players who only seem to fit our system is why we are in cap hell. lewis, off one good, not great year is not worth 8 million.

cbrunn
01-27-2013, 01:54 PM
No way I give him 8 mill a year ... for 1 decent season ???? ... what about the other horrible seasons where he couldn't sniff the field over Willy Gay???

if some team offers him 8 mill or even 6 say bye to him ... this draft is loaded at the DB position

Leave it to Steelers Fans to over rate their players

El-Gonzo Jackson
01-27-2013, 02:07 PM
Leave it to Steelers Fans to over rate their players

More like leave it to Steeler fans to bitch about a guy not progressing fast enough, then when he does....complain about it.

I'm glad we never overpaid that Mike Vrabel guy when he was a Steeler. :coffee:

kan_t
01-27-2013, 02:17 PM
Top CBs are getting $10M a year. In this league an above average CB will get something around $6M-$8M. Saying Lewis only worth $4M is ignoring the market.

pete74
01-27-2013, 02:46 PM
No way I give him 8 mill a year ... for 1 decent season ???? ... what about the other horrible seasons where he couldn't sniff the field over Willy Gay???

if some team offers him 8 mill or even 6 say bye to him ... this draft is loaded at the DB position

Leave it to Steelers Fans to over rate their players

What when Lewis was a rookie or a second year guy? I bet you'll be the first to complain next season if we lose him and our secondary falls apart.

harrison'samonster
01-27-2013, 03:00 PM
No way I give him 8 mill a year ... for 1 decent season ???? ... what about the other horrible seasons where he couldn't sniff the field over Willy Gay???

if some team offers him 8 mill or even 6 say bye to him ... this draft is loaded at the DB position

Leave it to Steelers Fans to over rate their players

I don't know how you can define those as horrible seasons when he hardly even saw the field.

Fire Arians
01-27-2013, 03:01 PM
our secondary did fall apart when we lost lewis / cortez allen, even tony homo had a field day, so yes he's worth the money.

#2 starting cb money is what i'd pay him

cbrunn
01-27-2013, 03:21 PM
difference is all these guys you're comparing him too, had more then just 1 year and also make plays on the ball ... they put in work to get that good contract ...

There is no way I'd pay him 6-8 mill a year off of 1 year ...

take a 4 year deal worth about 20 ... or a 2 year deal worth about 4, then if he succeeds and produces then sign him for big ...

But i'm not over reacting to one decent year, when he was covering #2s most of the year... and paying him #1 play making money

Fire Arians
01-27-2013, 03:37 PM
difference is all these guys you're comparing him too, had more then just 1 year and also make plays on the ball ... they put in work to get that good contract ...

There is no way I'd pay him 6-8 mill a year off of 1 year ...

take a 4 year deal worth about 20 ... or a 2 year deal worth about 4, then if he succeeds and produces then sign him for big ...

But i'm not over reacting to one decent year, when he was covering #2s most of the year... and paying him #1 play making money

i hear you but he's had more than just this past year, in the previous year, he wasn't pencilled as the #2, but he was lined up as the #2 every time they went to nickel (which was actually a lot), and he's done a good job then.

he played well 2 years ago, and this last year's performance proved that it wasn't a fluke, and he's ready to be the starter. with that said, cortez allen is giving him some serious competition, let the two duke it out in training camp :)

pete74
01-27-2013, 03:43 PM
i hear you but he's had more than just this past year, in the previous year, he wasn't pencilled as the #2, but he was lined up as the #2 every time they went to nickel (which was actually a lot), and he's done a good job then.

he played well 2 years ago, and this last year's performance proved that it wasn't a fluke, and he's ready to be the starter. with that said, cortez allen is giving him some serious competition, let the two duke it out in training camp :)

Agreed. Ike is almost done and a Lewis-Allen combo will make a great combo for the next 7 years

jtbsteeler
02-01-2013, 04:54 PM
I just watched the Pitt-Raven(Bmore) game and Lewis was a beast in that game. I want him re-signed. Actually if its him or Troy, I'm taking cut Troy and re-sign Lewis. I think he still has upside, which is exicting.

Also, they need to sign Starks as well. He stayed healthy and was our best Olineman. It will be tough ($$$) to keep him but Gilbert hasn't shown that he can stay healthy. And they will have to keep Ben upright or we'll be in the same boat next season. Let Adams and Gilbert fight for the RT with one of them being there for depth. Let Foote walk. They need more explosiveness. Not just steady play.

FrancoLambert
02-01-2013, 06:52 PM
Agreed. Ike is almost done and a Lewis-Allen combo will make a great combo for the next 7 years

^^^^THIS^^^^^^
:applaudit:

Steel95
02-02-2013, 02:22 AM
How many interceptions did this guy have? $8M a year? I don't think so; if he thinks he's that good, let him test free agency. Antonio Brown - look what this kid did last year after the F/O jumped the gun and paid him all of that money. Imagine how much money they could have saved if they had waited one more year with Brown. Now, hindsight 20/20, they did not know; but I think they were disgusted with Wallace, jumped the gun on Brown. Antonio is good, but he's too immature, maybe he will pick it back up in 2013.

SteelerinSevern
02-13-2013, 10:38 AM
Agreed. Ike is almost done and a Lewis-Allen combo will make a great combo for the next 7 years

My question is and this is just a thought. Would you cut Ike now and Start Lewis and Allen immediately? If you're going to have a youth movement, yoou might as well address all of the positions.

harrison'samonster
02-13-2013, 10:46 AM
My question is and this is just a thought. Would you cut Ike now and Start Lewis and Allen immediately? If you're going to have a youth movement, yoou might as well address all of the positions.

I wouldn't cut Ike now, I wouldn't mess too much with the secondary we've got if I could avoid it. I still think signing Lewis should be the most important part of the FA period for out defense.

pete74
02-13-2013, 10:52 AM
My question is and this is just a thought. Would you cut Ike now and Start Lewis and Allen immediately? If you're going to have a youth movement, yoou might as well address all of the positions.

We can't afford to keep all three. That's a fact so yes I would cut Ike now if it meant keeping Lewis. Lewis and Allen make an awesome combo and there younger then Ike who is closer to the end of his career then the beginning

teegre
02-13-2013, 11:25 AM
Cortez still has two years left on his rookie contract. Let him play one more year, and then re-sign him.

Re-sign Lewis now.

Ike plays one final season, and after winning Pittsburgh's seventh Lombardi, he, James Harrison, Troy Polamalu, & Ryan Clark all retire.

[Thus, in the 2014 season: Ike is retired, Lewis is under contract, and Cortez has a new contract right before the season starts.]

SteelersCanada
02-13-2013, 11:31 AM
Cortez still has two years left on his rookie contract. Let him play one more year, and then re-sign him.

Re-sign Lewis now.

Ike plays one final season, and after winning Pittsburgh's seventh Lombardi, he, James Harrison, Troy Polamalu, & Ryan Clark all retire.

[Thus, in the 2014 season: Ike is retired, Lewis is under contract, and Cortez has a new contract right before the season starts.]

That sounds like a movie script. If that's how things really played out, though, that would be fantastic.

teegre
02-13-2013, 11:44 AM
That sounds like a movie script. If that's how things really played out, though, that would be fantastic.

I forwarded it to Martin Scorsese. :wink02:

WVABE
02-13-2013, 11:52 AM
4 mil. + bonus's, 1/4 mil per INT or a PIK 6 for 1/2 mil.

That will motivate those hands a little.

teegre
02-13-2013, 03:04 PM
4 mil. + bonus's, 1/4 mil per INT or a PIK 6 for 1/2 mil.

That will motivate those hands a little.

The problem with incintives for INTs is that players are then forced to "go for the ball" instead of doing what they "need" to do.

I know, I know: some will say that going for the ball is always the best option. But, not true.

Sometimes, in man coverage, when the defense rushes a bunch of people, the CB's job is merely to stop the hot read. Sometimes the blitzers get there; sometimes they do not... and, when they do not, the CB's job is to minimize the completition. Whereas, the worst-case would be a CB, with no safety help (due to blitzing), attacking a three-yard hot-read... and that three-yard completition gets turned into an easy TD.

Better yet, at the end of the Balt-Denv play-off game, the safety WENT FOR THE INT. :banging: Here are three better options in that case:

a) He tackles the WR in bounds, the offense was left with NO time-outs, and 40 yards to cover... taking away all of the clock... and ending the game.

b) He tackles the WR as the ball arrives, hopefully, dislodging the ball... but, with the worst case being that the WR gets tackled out of bounds (stopping the clock). But, even in that case, the Ravens would still have had to score a TD... (as opposed to giving up the easy score).

Either of those was much smarter than "going for the INT"... which he did... and, in turn, lost the game.

SteelersCanada
04-03-2013, 03:39 PM
B/R NFL 1000 2013: Top 100 Cornerbacks

By
Matt Miller

34. Keenan Lewis, New Orleans Saints

Coverage

A flexible, athletic cornerback with good size, Keenan Lewis is poised to become one of the NFL’s best. He has good speed to turn and run with receivers on deep routes, and he uses his length well to get his hands on the ball and to shield targets away from the quarterback.

Opponents targeted the former Steeler often in 2012, but he responded by limiting completions and keeping catches to a minimum. Lewis doesn’t give up big yards after the catch, showing a good ability to stay in position to make a tackle post-catch. He has the height to high-point the ball and make plays on passes. He did notch an impressive 23 passes defensed, showing he can break on the ball and impact the play.

57 / 70

Run Defense

Lewis has the strength to help set the edge in the run game. He attacks well and takes smart angles to the ball, rarely getting caught out of position or overpursuing the ball.

12 / 15

Tackle

Lewis missed more tackles than we wanted to see. He has a nasty habit of dipping his head and losing sight of the ball-carrier.

10 / 15

Overall

A talented young cornerback, Lewis has the skill set to soar up the rankings in 2013. Keep an eye on him.

79 / 100

16. Cortez Allen, Pittsburgh Steelers

Coverage

An exciting young player, Cortez Allen didn’t make our 2011 rankings but shoots up the board in 2012. He has ideal length and quickness in and out of his breaks, and that shows up on film and in his production. He shows good timing and anticipation in coverage, which allows him to be on point and in position to limit receptions (just 58 percent of passes thrown his way) and keep receivers from turning upfield after the catch to make plays.

Allen allowed just one touchdown on 77 attempts this season—a very good rate for anyone, excellent for a second-year cornerback. The more we scouted Allen, the more we fell in love with his potential.

63/70

Run Defense

Allen has the mentality and frame to be a player against the run. He has to work better to get off blockers and come free to make plays.

10/15

Tackle

Allen does a good job bringing down receivers after the catch but struggled with running backs coming at him full-throttle. He’ll need to get better at using his shoulder to put a hurt on ball-carriers.

10/15

Overall

One of the more exciting young cornerbacks in the NFL, Allen has enough potential that the Steelers let Keenan Lewis walk to the Saints in free agency.

83/100

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1444334-br-nfl-1000-2013-top-100-cornerbacks

-- A couple of things to note, Ike ranked 23rd. It's also interesting to note that he, like the rest of us, like Allen more than Lewis in terms of his potential and ceiling. I didn't know that Allen hit his 200-snap minimum, but Matt and friends obviously liked what they saw.

VaDave
04-03-2013, 05:22 PM
Again, for the record, the reason Lewis in in New Orleans, and not re signed as a Steeler, is because he was not going to be the starter and the Steelers were not going to pay him starting pay. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the Steelers bring him back when he is a cap casualty in a year or two..

pete74
04-03-2013, 06:29 PM
Like I said before, I wish we kept Lewis and cut Taylor and his big paycheck. Lewis and Allen would of made an awesome tandem

VaDave
04-03-2013, 06:55 PM
Taylor graded out much higher than Lewis, and is actually IS worth his contract relatively speaking. When Ike hangs it up, Lewis will be a free agent.

pete74
04-03-2013, 07:22 PM
I would like to see that. Can you post Taylors so we can all see please. Regardless I would still take Lewis over Taylor. Lewis is younger and Taylor is nearing the end of his career.

SteelersCanada
04-03-2013, 07:27 PM
I would like to see that. Can you post Taylors so we can all see please. Regardless I would still take Lewis over Taylor. Lewis is younger and Taylor is nearing the end of his career.

Sorry Pete! Ask and you shall receive though.

23. Ike Taylor, Pittsburgh Steelers

Coverage

Ike Taylor’s 2012 season ended in Week 13, but in the 11 games before he showed the confidence and awareness that has made him a top cornerback for years. He is best in man coverage, where his quickness and vision allow him to get in front of the ball and make plays on the pass. He’ll fight through the route to contest passes and does a good job frustrating receivers.

Taylor did not show the same penchant for interceptions in 2012 that he did in 2011, but he did a good job defending and challenging passes. He can be beaten by a good double move, and you’ll see veteran quarterbacks looking him off with shoulder fakes. He does tend to be susceptible to high yardage before the completion when quarterbacks come his way. Better positioning and change-of-direction skills would put him in closer quarters on those grabs.

59/70

Run Defense

Taylor fits the Steelers’ tough mentality against the run. He’s a long-limbed corner who will come up to play the edge with good success.

11/15

Tackle

During his 11 full games, Taylor was a consistent tackler with few outright misses. He did put himself in poor positions at times, but when he had a clear attempt he generally made the tackle.

11/15

Overall

Taylor has long been an underrated presence on the edge, and when healthy he’s one of the better, more consistent players at the position.

81/100

pete74
04-03-2013, 07:34 PM
Well that's not much higher. For being that close I would of went with the younger guy who has more years left. Regardless no point crying over spilled milk. I'm glad we have Allen

Galax Steeler
04-03-2013, 07:38 PM
Well that's not much higher. For being that close I would of went with the younger guy who has more years left. Regardless no point crying over spilled milk. I'm glad we have Allen

I thought Allen went to Dallas

STEELMANIAK
04-03-2013, 07:41 PM
I thought Allen went to Dallas

That would be Will Allen, he is talking about Cortez Allen. :wink02:

Galax Steeler
04-03-2013, 07:43 PM
That would be Will Allen, he is talking about Cortez Allen. :wink02:

Damn I forgot about him :rofl:

VaDave
04-04-2013, 08:16 AM
Sorry Pete! Ask and you shall receive though.

23. Ike Taylor, Pittsburgh Steelers

Coverage

Ike Taylor’s 2012 season ended in Week 13, but in the 11 games before he showed the confidence and awareness that has made him a top cornerback for years. He is best in man coverage, where his quickness and vision allow him to get in front of the ball and make plays on the pass. He’ll fight through the route to contest passes and does a good job frustrating receivers.

Taylor did not show the same penchant for interceptions in 2012 that he did in 2011, but he did a good job defending and challenging passes. He can be beaten by a good double move, and you’ll see veteran quarterbacks looking him off with shoulder fakes. He does tend to be susceptible to high yardage before the completion when quarterbacks come his way. Better positioning and change-of-direction skills would put him in closer quarters on those grabs.

59/70

Run Defense

Taylor fits the Steelers’ tough mentality against the run. He’s a long-limbed corner who will come up to play the edge with good success.

11/15

Tackle

During his 11 full games, Taylor was a consistent tackler with few outright misses. He did put himself in poor positions at times, but when he had a clear attempt he generally made the tackle.

11/15

Overall

Taylor has long been an underrated presence on the edge, and when healthy he’s one of the better, more consistent players at the position.

81/100

What you don't seem to realize is Taylor, however slightly it may appear statistically, was better against the best WRs the opponents had to offer.

Another point of consideration is that Taylor primarily defends the weakside of the Offense. If you know anything about defensive backfield play, this means he has much more area to cover with less support. Significantly less support. The way our D was deployed last year, most of the time Taylor is on an island, Clark with the center zone and Lewis with Troy over the top.

I'm sorry my friend, I wholeheartedly disagree with your supposition that Lewis and Taylor are even close to having equal value. When you look around the league at what corners of Taylors skill sets are, we are getting a bargain.

Lewis would get destroyed covering the weakside. Cortez Allen is not quite ready, but should be with a year as a starter. Looking at 2014, Taylors last year, we would be better off with him playing strongside than Lewis, and it will be at a lower cap hit.

Furthermore, I fully expect Lewis at about 2015 should be re-entering the FA market looking for work, then bring him back, lock him up, and play him strongside where he belongs, working on a bargain contract.

El-Gonzo Jackson
04-04-2013, 09:26 AM
What you don't seem to realize is Taylor, however slightly it may appear statistically, was better against the best WRs the opponents had to offer.

Another point of consideration is that Taylor primarily defends the weakside of the Offense. If you know anything about defensive backfield play, this means he has much more area to cover with less support. Significantly less support. The way our D was deployed last year, most of the time Taylor is on an island, Clark with the center zone and Lewis with Troy over the top.

I'm sorry my friend, I wholeheartedly disagree with your supposition that Lewis and Taylor are even close to having equal value. When you look around the league at what corners of Taylors skill sets are, we are getting a bargain.

Lewis would get destroyed covering the weakside. Cortez Allen is not quite ready, but should be with a year as a starter. Looking at 2014, Taylors last year, we would be better off with him playing strongside than Lewis, and it will be at a lower cap hit.

Furthermore, I fully expect Lewis at about 2015 should be re-entering the FA market looking for work, then bring him back, lock him up, and play him strongside where he belongs, working on a bargain contract.

I think you are underestimating, maybe borderline "hating" on Lewis. The kid is gone for good and will likely still be a Saint when Taylor retires in 2 seasons.

VaDave
04-04-2013, 10:05 AM
I disagree. He was a system corner at best and will suffer the same fate as McFadden and Gay when exposed.

BTW, no Lewis hate here. Why in heck would I hate the kid? He was serviceable, nothing more. The likely hood of him being a starter in 2013 with the Steelers however was zilch, and therefore not worth to us what he got on the open market. That is a fact.

Frankly, I'm happy for him. He deserved getting paid for the progress he made. But remember, it was a HUGE step up for him last year. The prior two were, shall we say, less than stellar?

And you can book it, he will be on the market in two years, unless he becomes a # 1 shutdown corner. I don't know of any experts that are predicting that anytime soon,.... well, other than those that post here.....

steelfury02
04-04-2013, 10:51 AM
what the eff is a shutdown corner anyways? I hate that - maybe even as much as I hate the term "elite QB"

Its an easy way for people's opinions to be inserted as fact - "he's one of the best CBs in the game" - your opinion

I would only consider a dozen or so CBs in the history of the game to be "the best ever" Darelle Revis certainly has been exposed - and he's supposed to be the best "shutdown corner" in the game

especially with the offense having a larger advantage with every passing season - I really don't believe in the "shutdown corner"

If shutdown means you are shutting #1 receivers down week in and week out, Ike Taylor did that for a 4 or 5 year stretch - getting INT's means your a "ball hawk" so I get tired of INTs being included - sure, it helps a ton - but, there are diff types of corners.

Lewis deserves solid money no doubt but not what he was asking from our Steelers

VaDave
04-04-2013, 12:20 PM
what the eff is a shutdown corner anyways? I hate that - maybe even as much as I hate the term "elite QB"

Its an easy way for people's opinions to be inserted as fact - "he's one of the best CBs in the game" - your opinion

I would only consider a dozen or so CBs in the history of the game to be "the best ever" Darelle Revis certainly has been exposed - and he's supposed to be the best "shutdown corner" in the game

especially with the offense having a larger advantage with every passing season - I really don't believe in the "shutdown corner"

If shutdown means you are shutting #1 receivers down week in and week out, Ike Taylor did that for a 4 or 5 year stretch - getting INT's means your a "ball hawk" so I get tired of INTs being included - sure, it helps a ton - but, there are diff types of corners.

Lewis deserves solid money no doubt but not what he was asking from our Steelers

Been takin' them cranky pills again I see?

Pretty much, if you eliminate your diatribe on cliché`s, and you will find we are in total agreement. Maybe how about if we change the term "shutdown corner" to "The guy who takes on the best receiver of the other team with the intention to remove him from the game plan". Does that work for you?

BTW, I never said Taylor was the best ever CB. For clarification purposes, what I've said is: he is a lot better than Lewis is, and will ever be. Allen is likely at least is as good, or the FO would have never let Lewis go in the first place, and health permitting, will be a significant upgrade at the strong side corner.

The FO is also of the opinion that Allen is the heir apparent to Taylor. While the switch may not happen this year, undoubtedly, it will happen the following year, with Taylor moving to the strong side, which will STILL be an upgrade over Lewis' potential.

Again, health permitting, we are in good shape at corner for the next two years, and signing Gay gives us a better than ok nickel corner, and Brown will be the dime, unless we land somebody else in the draft.

El-Gonzo Jackson
04-04-2013, 12:30 PM
Lewis deserves solid money no doubt but not what he was asking from our Steelers

He got an average of a little over $5million a season. I would say that is fair market value for a guy that has steadily improved since his 2nd season in the NFL and played as well as he did last season.

Its nowhere near the $8million doom and gloom as the title of this thread states. He got was the market is, from professional NFL General Manager and NFL team....not what some armchair GM's here think.

VaDave
04-04-2013, 02:17 PM
He got market for a starter. He was not going to be a starter in the Burgh, which was obviously the opinion of the professional GM of the NFL Team, the Pittsburgh Steelers, shared by some members of this board.

El-Gonzo Jackson
04-04-2013, 02:36 PM
He got market for a starter. He was not going to be a starter in the Burgh, which was obviously the opinion of the professional GM of the NFL Team, the Pittsburgh Steelers, shared by some members of this board.

Do you have a link to this opinion that Keenan Lewis was not going to be a starting CB on the Steelers if he was here next year?

He was the only CB on the Steelers roster to start all 16 games last year. He had more tackles and passes defended than any other CB on the Steelers roster...........and you somehow think he was going to be the nickel corner??

Man, I don't know whether to ask you for insight on what Kevin Colbert is thinking in the draft or call BS. :noidea: :toofunny:

pete74
04-04-2013, 03:40 PM
What you don't seem to realize is Taylor, however slightly it may appear statistically, was better against the best WRs the opponents had to offer.

Another point of consideration is that Taylor primarily defends the weakside of the Offense. If you know anything about defensive backfield play, this means he has much more area to cover with less support. Significantly less support. The way our D was deployed last year, most of the time Taylor is on an island, Clark with the center zone and Lewis with Troy over the top.

I'm sorry my friend, I wholeheartedly disagree with your supposition that Lewis and Taylor are even close to having equal value. When you look around the league at what corners of Taylors skill sets are, we are getting a bargain.

Lewis would get destroyed covering the weakside. Cortez Allen is not quite ready, but should be with a year as a starter. Looking at 2014, Taylors last year, we would be better off with him playing strongside than Lewis, and it will be at a lower cap hit.

Furthermore, I fully expect Lewis at about 2015 should be re-entering the FA market looking for work, then bring him back, lock him up, and play him strongside where he belongs, working on a bargain contract.

Very presumptive of you to think Lewis would get destroyed on the weakside. We're did you come up with that? He looked decent when Taylor was out for 4 games.
Anyway my main point which you can't seem to grasp is that Taylor is 33. I'm for keeping the younger up and coming corner. It was Lewis's first season as a starter and odds are he would of only of got better. Taylor is at the age were players begin to slow and Lewis is in his prime. Enough said

VaDave
04-04-2013, 04:08 PM
Do you have a link to this opinion that Keenan Lewis was not going to be a starting CB on the Steelers if he was here next year?

He was the only CB on the Steelers roster to start all 16 games last year. He had more tackles and passes defended than any other CB on the Steelers roster...........and you somehow think he was going to be the nickel corner??

Man, I don't know whether to ask you for insight on what Kevin Colbert is thinking in the draft or call BS. :noidea: :toofunny:

You can call it BS if you want. But to reiterate, AGAIN,

The reason Lewis defended so many attempts last year was NOT because of his outstanding play. The reason he was thrown at so much was the coverage on the other receivers was better was better. If you have some time and about $30, subscribe to NFL game rewind and spend a few hours watching the coaches view. Don't take my word for it, it's on the tape.

I'm not so sure where you've been or what press reports you've been reading, but from what I've read, and have read often in various local, and national media outlets, not to mention what I've observed on the field, Allen is a better talent. This is not a closely guarded secret.

Being honest, I was somewhat surprised that Allen didn't start last season. But on further reflection, Allen is better at man to man coverage and had a higher value playing the nickel, considering how often offenses throw three wides at us, and since Lewis was under contract, and could function well on the strong side with some over the top help, why not leave him there? Lewis in the slot was and is not an option, at least not one to yield much success.

The normal take, and presumably yours as well, is since Lewis started, he must be a better player. I'm not so sure that was the case here. It was a case of getting the best players on the field where they can do the most good. There was enough confusion going on with all of the injuries out there as it was without bopping players back in forth.

As for a direct connection with the FO, I have none, but I am an intuitive by nature, and observed actions speak louder than words. Looking at the cap numbers, and what Lewis signed for, the Steelers could have worked a similar deal and been none the worse for it. The fact that they didn't even bother to offer him a contract should tell you something, don't you think?

VaDave
04-04-2013, 04:36 PM
Very presumptive of you to think Lewis would get destroyed on the weakside. We're did you come up with that? He looked decent when Taylor was out for 4 games.
Anyway my main point which you can't seem to grasp is that Taylor is 33. I'm for keeping the younger up and coming corner. It was Lewis's first season as a starter and odds are he would of only of got better. Taylor is at the age were players begin to slow and Lewis is in his prime. Enough said

It's kind of hard to tell just how effective Lewis was on the weak side the last two games Taylor was out, because Lewis was damaged too. We played lot of cover two at that point and got by. You do that for a game or two, but over a whole season, you give up a lot of run support, as well as passes over the middle. Eventually, the piper will be paid, and the defensive numbers will eventually go in the toilet.

A major part of the success of our defense is based on two things, pressure off the edge up field on the QB, and the ability to have one safety truly free. That means we got somebody in the secondary going one on one a fair amount of the time.

As for the last two games, what should be alarming is that with a choice of throwing a ball in Lewis' direction, or Josh Victorian's, the fact that he saw any passes at all is telling.

As for Taylor's age, so? The guy can still play. The game plan is Allen will be ready when he hangs it up. We have two drafts, and access to more than a few FA corners over the next two years to fill the strong side. In the condition Taylor keep himself in, I wouldn't be surprised if he couldn't play into his late 30s on the strong side with some over the top help.

Hey, look, don't take my word for it, look at the action of the team. It speaks louder than words. IF Lewis was that good, and that valuable, at the price he settled for, he would still be a Steeler. Is that THAT hard of a concept to grasp?

Actually, the guy in the secondary that deserves the man of the year award was Ryan Clark. When Clark and Palamalu go, it's going to be a big dropoff. Now that is an issue.

El-Gonzo Jackson
04-04-2013, 04:41 PM
You can call it BS if you want. But to reiterate, AGAIN,

The reason Lewis defended so many attempts last year was NOT because of his outstanding play. The reason he was thrown at so much was the coverage on the other receivers was better was better. If you have some time and about $30, subscribe to NFL game rewind and spend a few hours watching the coaches view. Don't take my word for it, it's on the tape.

I'm not so sure where you've been or what press reports you've been reading, but from what I've read, and have read often in various local, and national media outlets, not to mention what I've observed on the field, Allen is a better talent. This is not a closely guarded secret.

Being honest, I was somewhat surprised that Allen didn't start last season. But on further reflection, Allen is better at man to man coverage and had a higher value playing the nickel, considering how often offenses throw three wides at us, and since Lewis was under contract, and could function well on the strong side with some over the top help, why not leave him there? Lewis in the slot was and is not an option, at least not one to yield much success.

The normal take, and presumably yours as well, is since Lewis started, he must be a better player. I'm not so sure that was the case here. It was a case of getting the best players on the field where they can do the most good. There was enough confusion going on with all of the injuries out there as it was without bopping players back in forth.

As for a direct connection with the FO, I have none, but I am an intuitive by nature, and observed actions speak louder than words. Looking at the cap numbers, and what Lewis signed for, the Steelers could have worked a similar deal and been none the worse for it. The fact that they didn't even bother to offer him a contract should tell you something, don't you think?

I noticed Keenan Lewis playing well at Oregon St, opposite Brandon Hughes, some 5 years ago. I then noticed he played well at the Senior Bowl against top competition. He then looked fluid in drills at the NFL combine. Lewis played almost strictly man coverage at OSU, and again everybody said Hughes was the #1 guy so teams threw at Lewis more often.

Keenan Lewis was transitionting from Man to zone coverage in the Steelers system and was pushing McFadden for the starters spot in his 2nd season. He then got into Tomlin's dog house for a couple dumb penalties and sat behind McFadden and Gay.

Lewis was still playing a bit too far off in his 3rd year and finally put it all together last year. IMO. You can say he defended more balls because he was the #2 CB all you want, but there are 31 other #2 CB's in the NFL and Lewis was in position to defend footballs more than at least 30 of them.(if you consider Richard Sherman a #2 also) Hate all you want, but the guy is a good CB and its a shame we didnt have the cap space to keep him.

2012 CB stats are here. http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/defense/sort/passesDefended

I suspect there might be some locker room issues as he is a close friend of Wallace that might have made it easier not to try and keep him around, but I dont pretend to know that.

harrison'samonster
04-04-2013, 04:43 PM
Actually, the guy in the secondary that deserves the man of the year award was Ryan Clark. When Clark and Palamalu go, it's going to be a big dropoff. Now that is an issue.

definitely agree with that. Plus with that big helmet Clark looks like either Dark Helmet from Space Balls or a character from the Peanuts cartoons. I love it!

Allen was able to force turnovers so I would have expected to see him on the field more. Lewis is a good CB and it is a shame we couldn't keep him

VaDave
04-04-2013, 05:15 PM
I noticed Keenan Lewis playing well at Oregon St, opposite Brandon Hughes, some 5 years ago. I then noticed he played well at the Senior Bowl against top competition. He then looked fluid in drills at the NFL combine. Lewis played almost strictly man coverage at OSU, and again everybody said Hughes was the #1 guy so teams threw at Lewis more often.

Keenan Lewis was transitionting from Man to zone coverage in the Steelers system and was pushing McFadden for the starters spot in his 2nd season. He then got into Tomlin's dog house for a couple dumb penalties and sat behind McFadden and Gay.

Lewis was still playing a bit too far off in his 3rd year and finally put it all together last year. IMO. You can say he defended more balls because he was the #2 CB all you want, but there are 31 other #2 CB's in the NFL and Lewis was in position to defend footballs more than at least 30 of them.(if you consider Richard Sherman a #2 also) Hate all you want, but the guy is a good CB and its a shame we didnt have the cap space to keep him.

2012 CB stats are here. http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/defense/sort/passesDefended

I suspect there might be some locker room issues as he is a close friend of Wallace that might have made it easier not to try and keep him around, but I dont pretend to know that.


We had the cap space. We just didn't want him. Didn't even bother to make him an offer. You may be right, there might be some issues other than talent of which we will never know.

One other thing I do not HATE Lewis. He was serviceable. Nothing more. If he was that indispensable, he's still be on the team. The guy had 112 balls thrown his way. You say that has no bearing, but you tell me why, opposing QB, and OCs would chose to pass in his direction an average of almost 10 times a game?

Also, you may want to consider, defending 23 out of 112 passes is not a great ratio. Granted, you don't have to always get your hands on a ball to be effective, but when you are seeing that much action, one would hope for a little more contact with the football.

BTW, I went though the stats you posted, and thank you for that. I also opened the link to view the whole season. I was surprised that there are no stats for completed passes, as well as yards given up. What you got there is only part of the story.

El-Gonzo Jackson
04-04-2013, 06:14 PM
We had the cap space. We just didn't want him. Didn't even bother to make him an offer.

He was serviceable. Nothing more. If he was that indispensable, he's still be on the team. The guy had 112 balls thrown his way. You say that has no bearing, but you tell me why, opposing QB, and OCs would chose to pass in his direction an average of almost 10 times a game?

.

The ranking that somebody posted links to in Bleacher Report had him as the #34 CB. I think he was a better than average #2 CB in the NFL and rankings would point that way too.

112 balls thrown to him in a 16 game season is an average of 7 balls a game. Not sure if you were thinking the Steelers play an 11 game schedule?? Richard Sherman was targeted 86 times for an average of 5.4 times a game. Neither seems too outlandish in todays NFL.

Maybe help us with some insight and stats on William Gay. That is the saddest part of the situation .....that we lost a guy in Lewis who was on his way up and replaced him with a guy that had arguably one of the worst seasons at CB in the NFL.

El-Gonzo Jackson
04-04-2013, 06:19 PM
Stats Don't Lie: The NFL's 10 Worst Cornerbacks Of 2012
7. William Gay

Gay was one of many who experienced a terrible season in the desert in 2012. While he only gave up one touchdown all season he was repetitively picked on by quarterbacks who wished to throw away from Patrick Peterson as he graded out as the fourth worst corner in coverage according to PFF.

His final marks include giving up 52 catches for 726 yards including averaging 14 yards a catch by opposing receivers, one of the weakest in the league.

His problem was poor tackling which resulted in giving up 300 yards after the catch, ranking seventh. He consistently gave up big plays including catches of 67,57,38, and 36 yards, which killed the Cardinals defense.

Even during the Cardinals four game winning streak to start the season, Gay ironically had his four worst games, He was caught out of position frequently and showed poor technique. Six penalties and 12 missed tackles didn't help his cause during the 2012 season.

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/stats_dont_lie_10_nfls_worst_cornerbacks_of_2012/12897910

VaDave
04-05-2013, 07:40 AM
Gay is not going to start, ( or heaven help us if he has to) is going to be a slot in nickel-dime packages, and is working for less money. Granted, it was a crap year he had, but it was a crap year for the whole team that led to ownership blowing it up and starting over.

What the Cards thought they were getting in Gay was a starting corner, which he isn't, or we would have kept him a year ago, much like the Saints are expecting out of Lewis. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but I wouldn't be surprised if Lewis shows up on that list next year.

One other point of consideration, Ike Taylor also had a crap beginning to the year too, until Munday was benched. There may be more to Gays Cardinal story than just stats, as someone else posted about Lewis, that we don't know about.

Good posts Gonzo. I'm enjoying the dialog. BTW, It would be interesting for a similar breakdown on Lewis.......

El-Gonzo Jackson
04-05-2013, 09:18 AM
Gay is not going to start, ( or heaven help us if he has to) is going to be a slot in nickel-dime packages, and is working for less money. Granted, it was a crap year he had, but it was a crap year for the whole team that led to ownership blowing it up and starting over.

What the Cards thought they were getting in Gay was a starting corner, which he isn't, or we would have kept him a year ago, much like the Saints are expecting out of Lewis. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but I wouldn't be surprised if Lewis shows up on that list next year.

One other point of consideration, Ike Taylor also had a crap beginning to the year too, until Munday was benched. There may be more to Gays Cardinal story than just stats, as someone else posted about Lewis, that we don't know about.

Good posts Gonzo. I'm enjoying the dialog. BTW, It would be interesting for a similar breakdown on Lewis.......

I know Gay wont start, unless the 33 year old Taylor gets injured again. Knowing that teams often go with 3 WR's in todays NFL, I would have rather had Taylor, Allen Lewis as opposed to Taylor, Allen Gay that we currently will have.

Also knowing that not a lot of CB's are still great after 35 yrs of age, I sure hope we get a decent prospect this year or that Curtis Brown suddenly becomes the #2 guy we all hoped he would.

El-Gonzo Jackson
04-05-2013, 11:07 AM
Here are some stats that I gleaned from the internet.

Richard Sherman -- Completions allowed 47.1%, Pass defended 24, Tackles 64
Charles Tillman -- Completions allowed 63.3%, Pass defended 11, Tackles 85
Tim Jennings -- completions allowed 52.9%, Pass defended 11, Tackles 60
Keenan Lewis-- Completions allowed 52.7%, Pass defended 23, Tackles 71
Patrick Peterson-- Completions allowed 59.3%, Pass defended 17, Tackles 59

The best ever Completion percentage allowed was recorded by Revis a couple years ago at 45.6. So this whole notion that Keenan Lewis was targeted more often because he was an easy mark is a bit silly IMO. Lewis was statistically better than Charles Tillman, Patrick Peterson, Tim Jennings in completions allowed.

Lewis allowed 7% more receptions than Revis did at his very best. That means if Revis was thrown at as much as Keenan Lewis was last season, Revis would have allowed 8 fewer receptions. One more completion every 2 games!!!

Was Lewis worth $8million a year? Probably not, but it would not have been bad to keep a top notch guy at $5million a year IMO.

SteelersCanada
04-05-2013, 12:02 PM
Lewis allowed 7% more receptions than Revis did at his very best. That means if Revis was thrown at as much as Keenan Lewis was last season, Revis would have allowed 8 fewer receptions. One more completion every 2 games!!!

Was Lewis worth $8million a year? Probably not, but it would not have been bad to keep a top notch guy at $5million a year IMO.

Keenan Lewis has Ike Taylor on the other side. He also has Ryan Clark on the over the top and Troy doing whatever Troy does. Darrelle Revis has ... Darrelle Revis. He is that secondary. He's the whole secondary.

It's easier to play in a secondary and allow fewer receptions when the secondary you're playing in is first in the NFL. Guys like Patrick Peterson and Darrelle Revis were playing in a secondary in which they were the guy. As you've pointed out, William Gay is not a legitimate starting CB but was playing opposite Peterson. There's more to just Revis' game than defending passes, too. He's like Troy - you always have to know where he is and what he's doing on the field. There's a certain intimidation factor that he brings and Lewis hasn't shown enough or proven enough to be even close to Revis in terms of on field play or the 'oh shit' factor he brings.

That, and Allen is a better CB anyway.

bornaSteelersfan
04-05-2013, 12:12 PM
The fact of the matter is that The Steelers did not offer Keenan a contract.

Stats aren't the entire story. I still have a feeling it was something that happened in the locker room that cemented his demise in Pittsburgh. AB was talking about some players more concerned about individual stats than teamwork. Well, Lewis and Wallace were best friends growing up and may have had some kind of competition between them. Notice they are both gone, now.

Keenan is also signed with The Saints near his home town. He may not have stayed with the Steelers for the same amount of money.

Either way, Cortez seems to be "the next man up" and looks superior and, for now, cheaper. The signing of Gay is for nickel and dime packages where he excelled.

VaDave
04-05-2013, 06:02 PM
RE: Gay, plus he is a very good special teamer. Not another Chidi Iwoma, but not too far off the mark.

El-Gonzo Jackson
04-05-2013, 09:45 PM
Keenan Lewis has Ike Taylor on the other side. He also has Ryan Clark on the over the top and Troy doing whatever Troy does. Darrelle Revis has ... Darrelle Revis. He is that secondary. He's the whole secondary.

It's easier to play in a secondary and allow fewer receptions when the secondary you're playing in is first in the NFL. Guys like Patrick Peterson and Darrelle Revis were playing in a secondary in which they were the guy. As you've pointed out, William Gay is not a legitimate starting CB but was playing opposite Peterson. There's more to just Revis' game than defending passes, too. He's like Troy - you always have to know where he is and what he's doing on the field. There's a certain intimidation factor that he brings and Lewis hasn't shown enough or proven enough to be even close to Revis in terms of on field play or the 'oh shit' factor he brings.

That, and Allen is a better CB anyway.

This is one of the dumbest posts I have ever seen in my years on this board. You are saying that its easier for Keenan Lewis to play CB because he played opposite Ike Taylor???

Normally when you are the weaker CB of the 2 starters, you are targeted more. Keenan Lewis was targetet more than Ike Taylor last year.

You also say its because of the secondary he played in with Polamalu and Clark?? Polamalu only started 7 games and was injured the other 9 games. Yeah, Ryan Mundy and Will Allen intimidated anybody that Lewis covered. :doh::toofunny:

You say its tougher for guys like Revis and Peterson because they are the entire secondary?? When you are the only good player in the secondary, the QB is going to target the weaker guys.

The completion allowed percentage shows the rate of completions allowed irrespective of how many times a player was targeted. So if Keenan Lewis was targeted 120 times and gave up 60 catches, its 50%. If Ike Taylor was targeted 80 times and only gave up 40 catches its 50%. Please tell me you understand per centages.

I dont know what else I can say, either you are just a hater or you cant understand logic. At least VaDave understands the concepts of targeted completion percentages and that #2 CB's are naturally targeted more than the #1 CB. I can have rational discussions with him.

Are you the same guy that thinks Demarcus Van Dyke is the future of the Steelers at CB or was that another guy from Canada? :doh:

VaDave
04-06-2013, 08:21 AM
This is one of the dumbest posts I have ever seen in my years on this board. You are saying that its easier for Keenan Lewis to play CB because he played opposite Ike Taylor???

Normally when you are the weaker CB of the 2 starters, you are targeted more. Keenan Lewis was targetet more than Ike Taylor last year.

You also say its because of the secondary he played in with Polamalu and Clark?? Polamalu only started 7 games and was injured the other 9 games. Yeah, Ryan Mundy and Will Allen intimidated anybody that Lewis covered. :doh::toofunny:

You say its tougher for guys like Revis and Peterson because they are the entire secondary?? When you are the only good player in the secondary, the QB is going to target the weaker guys.

The completion allowed percentage shows the rate of completions allowed irrespective of how many times a player was targeted. So if Keenan Lewis was targeted 120 times and gave up 60 catches, its 50%. If Ike Taylor was targeted 80 times and only gave up 40 catches its 50%. Please tell me you understand per centages.

I dont know what else I can say, either you are just a hater or you cant understand logic. At least VaDave understands the concepts of targeted completion percentages and that #2 CB's are naturally targeted more than the #1 CB. I can have rational discussions with him.

Are you the same guy that thinks Demarcus Van Dyke is the future of the Steelers at CB or was that another guy from Canada? :doh:

Gonzo,

Thanks for the compliment. Looking at last year, you are right that having Munday in was a disaster. That said, the secondary settled down and played much better once Will Allen settled in until Taylor got hurt.

El-Gonzo Jackson
04-06-2013, 09:55 AM
Gonzo,

Thanks for the compliment. Looking at last year, you are right that having Munday in was a disaster. That said, the secondary settled down and played much better once Will Allen settled in until Taylor got hurt.

Yeah, I think most can agree that Mundy having to play for Clark in Denver and Troy while injured didnt help a lot. But the CB's in Taylor and Lewis still held up their end.

We have seen that it takes draft picks like Allen and Lewis up to 3 years to be bona fide starters and by this season, Troy turns 32, Ike Taylor 33 and Clark 34 years old. I'm not saying Lewis was the next Mel Blount, but it would have been nice to keep him and Allen going forward.

I would not be surprised to see us spend 2 premium picks on CB and Safety.

SteelersCanada
04-06-2013, 10:39 AM
The completion allowed percentage shows the rate of completions allowed irrespective of how many times a player was targeted. So if Keenan Lewis was targeted 120 times and gave up 60 catches, its 50%. If Ike Taylor was targeted 80 times and only gave up 40 catches its 50%. Please tell me you understand per centages.

I dont know what else I can say, either you are just a hater or you cant understand logic. At least VaDave understands the concepts of targeted completion percentages and that #2 CB's are naturally targeted more than the #1 CB. I can have rational discussions with him.

There's more than just statistics to this game but since you love them as much as you do, let's go right into some stats, shall we?

San Diego Top 2 Receivers: 10 Catches, 98 Yards, 3 TDs.

Dallas Cowboys Top 2 Receivers: 11 Catches, 138 Yards, 1 TD.

Cincinnati Bengals Top 2 Receivers: 11 Catches, 139 Yards, 0 TDs.

Cleveland Browns Top 2 Receivers: 10 Catches, 102 Yards, 1 TD.

This averages out to: 10 (rounded down) Catches, 119 Yards, 1 TD.

Now, you might be asking yourself why I chose this seemingly random point in the season to talk about teams and their receiving numbers. Well, these four games were the games after Ike Taylor went down. It's also important to note that one of these four teams ranked in the top 10 in passing yards / game. One. The Cowboys' yardage came in garbage time as they were losing too, so those numbers are inflated. The Chargers ranked 24th, the Browns 19th and the Bengals 17th. These are teams that struggled to move the ball through the air consistently against decent, not even good, secondaries yet shredded ours? Let's look at the weeks where Ike Taylor was playing, shall we?

Now, there's a lot of information to go around for 13 weeks of football and I have it saved but for the sake of all of our eyes I did it in Word to avoid the essay this would've become. Here are the numbers:

When Ike Taylor was playing, the top 2 receivers averaged 6 (rounded up from 5.7) catches, 79 Yards, and 0.5 TDs, or one every other game. Now, why is this important? Go back and compare these numbers to the original ones I posted. No, wait, I'll do it for you:

Lewis and Allen: 10 (rounded down) Catches, 119 Yards, 1 TD.

With Ike Taylor: 6 (rounded up from 5.7) catches, 79 Yards, and 0.5 TDs

Those numbers are pretty eye opening. Now, I know what you're thinking "well, numbers can be inflated!" Well they sure can, Gonzo! That's why we're here. Let's look at the games against the Bengals and Ravens, for example. Week 7 against the Bengals, Ike Taylor held AJ Green to one catch for 8 yards. Week 16 in which Cortez Allen and Keenan Lewis split coverage on Green, he caught 10 balls for 116 yards. Now even if we average this out (which I don't think we could because Lewis was on Green more than Allen was) they're still giving him 5 catches each for 58 yards. Each. That's dangerously close to what we were averaging with Ike in the line up for the two top receivers combined.

I'll come back at you with each of the Ravens games this year. Ike played in both of those games. Keenan Lewis was on Anquan Boldin for both of those games because he's the "number two" receiver in that offense. In those games, Boldin caught 8 balls for 79 yards and 5 balls for 81 yards. That equals out 13 catches, 160 yards and two TDs, one in each game. Torrey Smith? 4 Catches, 40 Yards, 0 TDs. Combined. As in both games.

This is why you can't regurgitate stats you heard on ESPN without doing any kind of research. The simple fact of the matter is when Keenan Lewis was on the teams top receiver, our secondary was allowing significantly more yardage, catches and scores than we were with Taylor. Even when he was in the line up, he was getting shredded by the better receivers.

This is, again, why you can't extrapolate stats. When he was put on the teams top receiver, more yardage and catches were allowed. I'd love to see the percentages of Keenan Lewis on second receivers vs. Keenan Lewis on first receivers. Saying "well, he'd only allow 8 more balls than Darrelle Revis!" is just flat out wrong. You can't take stats from when he was on a teams second receiver and extrapolate them for when he was covering a teams first receiver because, well, they don't balance out as I just showed. Take all the percentages you want, but they don't equate.

Maybe, just maybe instead of throwing insults around you can do about 20 minutes of research which is what I just did.

Am I doing this whole "math" thing right?

El-Gonzo Jackson
04-06-2013, 12:02 PM
There's more than just statistics to this game but since you love them as much as you do, let's go right into some stats, shall we?

San Diego Top 2 Receivers: 10 Catches, 98 Yards, 3 TDs.

Dallas Cowboys Top 2 Receivers: 11 Catches, 138 Yards, 1 TD.

Cincinnati Bengals Top 2 Receivers: 11 Catches, 139 Yards, 0 TDs.

Cleveland Browns Top 2 Receivers: 10 Catches, 102 Yards, 1 TD.

This averages out to: 10 (rounded down) Catches, 119 Yards, 1 TD.

Now, you might be asking yourself why I chose this seemingly random point in the season to talk about teams and their receiving numbers. Well, these four games were the games after Ike Taylor went down. It's also important to note that one of these four teams ranked in the top 10 in passing yards / game. One. The Cowboys' yardage came in garbage time as they were losing too, so those numbers are inflated. The Chargers ranked 24th, the Browns 19th and the Bengals 17th. These are teams that struggled to move the ball through the air consistently against decent, not even good, secondaries yet shredded ours? Let's look at the weeks where Ike Taylor was playing, shall we?

Now, there's a lot of information to go around for 13 weeks of football and I have it saved but for the sake of all of our eyes I did it in Word to avoid the essay this would've become. Here are the numbers:

When Ike Taylor was playing, the top 2 receivers averaged 6 (rounded up from 5.7) catches, 79 Yards, and 0.5 TDs, or one every other game. Now, why is this important? Go back and compare these numbers to the original ones I posted. No, wait, I'll do it for you:

Lewis and Allen: 10 (rounded down) Catches, 119 Yards, 1 TD.

With Ike Taylor: 6 (rounded up from 5.7) catches, 79 Yards, and 0.5 TDs

Those numbers are pretty eye opening. Now, I know what you're thinking "well, numbers can be inflated!" Well they sure can, Gonzo! That's why we're here. Let's look at the games against the Bengals and Ravens, for example. Week 7 against the Bengals, Ike Taylor held AJ Green to one catch for 8 yards. Week 16 in which Cortez Allen and Keenan Lewis split coverage on Green, he caught 10 balls for 116 yards. Now even if we average this out (which I don't think we could because Lewis was on Green more than Allen was) they're still giving him 5 catches each for 58 yards. Each. That's dangerously close to what we were averaging with Ike in the line up for the two top receivers combined.

I'll come back at you with each of the Ravens games this year. Ike played in both of those games. Keenan Lewis was on Anquan Boldin for both of those games because he's the "number two" receiver in that offense. In those games, Boldin caught 8 balls for 79 yards and 5 balls for 81 yards. That equals out 13 catches, 160 yards and two TDs, one in each game. Torrey Smith? 4 Catches, 40 Yards, 0 TDs. Combined. As in both games.

This is why you can't regurgitate stats you heard on ESPN without doing any kind of research. The simple fact of the matter is when Keenan Lewis was on the teams top receiver, our secondary was allowing significantly more yardage, catches and scores than we were with Taylor. Even when he was in the line up, he was getting shredded by the better receivers.

This is, again, why you can't extrapolate stats. When he was put on the teams top receiver, more yardage and catches were allowed. I'd love to see the percentages of Keenan Lewis on second receivers vs. Keenan Lewis on first receivers. Saying "well, he'd only allow 8 more balls than Darrelle Revis!" is just flat out wrong. You can't take stats from when he was on a teams second receiver and extrapolate them for when he was covering a teams first receiver because, well, they don't balance out as I just showed. Take all the percentages you want, but they don't equate.

Maybe, just maybe instead of throwing insults around you can do about 20 minutes of research which is what I just did.

Am I doing this whole "math" thing right?

You are going out of your way to cherry pick stats and generalizing to continue your hating on the departed Keenan Lewis. Your generalization of Taylor and Lewis vs the Bengals and Ravens is just that.

You forget that Lewis defended AJ Green and knocked down a TD pass to Green that saved the victory for the Steelers vs the Bengals.

You belittle Keenan Lewis's play vs the Ravens and Bengals, but this is what was said after the games:

Keenan Lewis did an excellent job tackling on short screens and covering Boldin. He has been a huge upgrade over William Gay, is getting better every week, and is 2nd in the NFL in passes defended.

http://www.steelerfury.com/content/extra-points-steelers-vs-ravens-post-game-wrap

Keenan Lewis was everywhere last night – 10 tackles, two pass breakups (now second in the NFL with 18 passes defended) and deserves a new contract in the offseason. http://www.prosportsblogging.com/2012/11/19/steelers-o-sputters-in-13-10-loss-to-ravens/

The 26-year-old cornerback did his best to keep the Steelers' secondary together when Taylor went down. Despite hobbling around with hip and knee injuries, he made four tackles and broke up two passes in Sunday's loss to the Bengals. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1457615-pittsburgh-steelers-7-biggest-offseason-decisions#/articles/1457615-pittsburgh-steelers-7-biggest-offseason-decisions/page/4

Lewis is gone and we are fortunate to have Allen who also looks to be on the rise, but we had to let a good young corner go because of cap reasons and other issues.

You can continue your hate of Lewis and assertion that Demarcus Van Dyke will be "the future of the Steelers at CB". Both are unfounded and IMO....silly assertions.

SteelersCanada
04-06-2013, 12:22 PM
You are going out of your way to cherry pick stats and generalizing to continue your hating on the departed Keenan Lewis. Your generalization of Taylor and Lewis vs the Bengals and Ravens is just that.

You forget that Lewis defended AJ Green and knocked down a TD pass to Green that saved the victory for the Steelers vs the Bengals.

You belittle Keenan Lewis's play vs the Ravens and Bengals, but this is what was said after the games:

Keenan Lewis did an excellent job tackling on short screens and covering Boldin. He has been a huge upgrade over William Gay, is getting better every week, and is 2nd in the NFL in passes defended.

http://www.steelerfury.com/content/extra-points-steelers-vs-ravens-post-game-wrap

Keenan Lewis was everywhere last night – 10 tackles, two pass breakups (now second in the NFL with 18 passes defended) and deserves a new contract in the offseason. http://www.prosportsblogging.com/2012/11/19/steelers-o-sputters-in-13-10-loss-to-ravens/

The 26-year-old cornerback did his best to keep the Steelers' secondary together when Taylor went down. Despite hobbling around with hip and knee injuries, he made four tackles and broke up two passes in Sunday's loss to the Bengals. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1457615-pittsburgh-steelers-7-biggest-offseason-decisions#/articles/1457615-pittsburgh-steelers-7-biggest-offseason-decisions/page/4

Lewis is gone and we are fortunate to have Allen who also looks to be on the rise, but we had to let a good young corner go because of cap reasons and other issues.

You can continue your hate of Lewis and assertion that Demarcus Van Dyke will be "the future of the Steelers at CB". Both are unfounded and IMO....silly assertions.

An entire season of stats isn't cherry picking. Go back and look at the other games if you want and it's the same story. He had a lot of pass defensed - that's great. He also gave up a lot of passes to receivers that he really shouldn't have. The Bengals and Ravens games examples of a season that reads the same for the most part.

I like Keenan Lewis. I think he's a solid CB in this league but what I take exception to are the insults you threw around without doing any kind of research by yourself. Which, if I'm being completely honest, surprised me a little bit. For the most part, you post smart things that don't have insults riddled in it. I don't know what I said that set you off but let me clarify if I can.

I was getting at that Keenan Lewis' season might have been overblown a little bit. Look at the four games in which he was on top receivers and look how they did against each other. If it was worded poorly that's my fault, but that's what the point of that was. When he was playing with Ike that allowed him to take a second receiver instead of a teams top receiver, he was playing solid. When he played against guys like Bryant and Green he took a step back.

I'm standing by what I said about Van Dyke. His flaws are technical which in turn means they're coachable.

VaDave
04-06-2013, 09:30 PM
Canada,

I hope you're right about Van Dyke......Why do I have the feeling he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer? Well, the good news for him is it's a good defensive system, with what appears to be a budding Secondary coach in Carnel Lake.

SteelersCanada
04-06-2013, 09:48 PM
Canada,

I hope you're right about Van Dyke......Why do I have the feeling he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer? Well, the good news for him is it's a good defensive system, with what appears to be a budding Secondary coach in Carnel Lake.

I am too. The kid has tremendous upside. You can't teach blazing speed, but you can correct bad hips and technical flaws. I think Lake could turn this kid into something if Van Dyke dedicates himself.

Hawaii 5-0
08-01-2013, 08:35 PM
Rob Ryan: Keenan Lewis was the NFL’s best defensive free agent

Posted by Michael David Smith on August 1, 2013

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/keenanlewis-e1375398764221.jpg?w=221

Rob Ryan has never been shy about talking up his players, and he hasn’t stopped in his new job.

Ryan, the first-year defensive coordinator of the Saints, says that when New Orleans signed cornerback Keenan Lewis away from Pittsburgh, they got the best defensive free agent in the entire league this year.

“I’m so excited about Keenan Lewis — everything about him since the day we signed him,” Ryan said, via the Times-Picayune. “He’s got so much ability. The sky is the limit for this guy. He’s going to be fantastic for us. We’re so excited about him. He’s smart, he’s tough, he’s long. And he’s a local hero. You’ve got to love this guy. In my opinion, I honestly feel we got the best free agent out there on defense.”

We had Lewis as the No. 41 player in our free agent rankings, so we’re not quite as high on him as Ryan is, but Lewis will surely make a difference in the Saints’ secondary this season. And on a Saints team that desperately needs to get better on defense, he really is one of the most important defensive free agents in the league. That’s not just Ryan bluster.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/01/rob-ryan-keenan-lewis-was-the-nfls-best-defensive-free-agent/

FrancoLambert
08-01-2013, 10:14 PM
Yeah.....Rob knows the secondary position.....he did such a good job with the Cowboys.:coffee:

But I did not want to lose Lewis.

VaDave
08-02-2013, 09:12 AM
Yeah.....Rob knows the secondary position.....he did such a good job with the Cowboys.:coffee:

But I did not want to lose Lewis.

Not to mention the Browns..... He has to be one of the most overated DCs in the league.

As for Lewis, 8 mil a year is going to make him a cap casualty that can be had cheap off the scrap heap. Trust me.

EbonySteel86
08-02-2013, 10:56 AM
"Keenan is truly a ball hawk, and I am glad he is on our team," Brees said.

We gonna miss this guy, trust me!

Blacksburg Zach
08-02-2013, 11:57 AM
"Keenan is truly a ball hawk!"

That's news to me. I would have thought one would need far more than one career interception to be labeled a ball hawk.

LambertIsGod58
08-02-2013, 12:07 PM
He's good....Not sure $8 million good.

EbonySteel86
08-02-2013, 12:42 PM
That's news to me. I would have thought one would need far more than one career interception to be labeled a ball hawk.

No offense, but Bree's has been QB'n at a high level for a long time. Even got himself a ring. I'm sure he knows a ball hawk when he sees one.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-02-2013, 01:37 PM
He's good....Not sure $8 million good.

Is he $5.2 Million a year good? That is what he got from the Saints....5 year $26 Million.

tony hipchest
08-02-2013, 01:44 PM
Is he $5.2 Million a year good? That is what he got from the Saints....5 year $26 Million.in 3 years that will look like a complete steal (maybe even after 1 year).

Blacksburg Zach
08-02-2013, 01:46 PM
No offense, but Bree's has been QB'n at a high level for a long time. Even got himself a ring. I'm sure he knows a ball hawk when he sees one.

Perhaps. For all I know, he may have learned how to intercept passes after going to New Orleans. However, when he was here, he was anything but a ball hawk.

Hawaii 5-0
08-02-2013, 01:54 PM
Is he $5.2 Million a year good? That is what he got from the Saints....5 year $26 Million.

Keenan Lewis gave the Saints the hometown discount...

EbonySteel86
08-02-2013, 02:08 PM
Perhaps. For all I know, he may have learned how to intercept passes after going to New Orleans. However, when he was here, he was anything but a ball hawk.

I guess Bree's was just implying Keenan has a knack for getting to the ball, something we haven't had here since Rod Woodson. Does anybody even know how much we offered him before he left for New Orleans? $5.2 mill a year doesn't seem like alot for him.

SteelersCanada
08-02-2013, 02:11 PM
I guess Bree's was just implying Keenan has a knack for getting to the ball, something we haven't had here since Rod Woodson. Does anybody even know how much we offered him before he left for New Orleans? $5.2 mill a year doesn't seem like alot for him.

We didn't offer him a contract because he's not better than Cortez Allen.

Also, I agree - how can you call this kid a ballhawk with one career interception? Does he have some talent? Sure. Brees was just being the face of the franchise and talking up an acquired free agent. That's all it was man.

I'd take Cortez over Keenan any day of the week.

EbonySteel86
08-02-2013, 02:22 PM
We didn't offer him a contract because he's not better than Cortez Allen.

Also, I agree - how can you call this kid a ballhawk with one career interception? Does he have some talent? Sure. Brees was just being the face of the franchise and talking up an acquired free agent. That's all it was man.

I'd take Cortez over Keenan any day of the week.

This is from Richard Sherman on who's the best CB in the league is besides him......“Well if Darrelle Revis is playing then I would say it’s him, but this year he didn’t get a chance to play,” started Sherman. “So there were some pretty good performances. Tim Jennings had a great year, but I think it would be out of, surprisingly, Antonio Cromartie, and Keenan Lewis from Pittsburgh doesn’t get a lot of respect because he doesn’t get a lot of picks, but he’s a heck of a corner. So I think it’s a close discussion between those guys and Charles Tillman. That’s the discussion.”

So that's Bree's AND Richard Sherman praising Lewis, but I guess I'll take your word for it.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-02-2013, 02:48 PM
So that's Bree's AND Richard Sherman praising Lewis, but I guess I'll take your word for it.

Do you know what they said about Demarcus Van Dyke?? He's gonna be great for the Steelers. :sofunny:

SteelersCanada
08-02-2013, 04:13 PM
This is from Richard Sherman on who's the best CB in the league is besides him......“Well if Darrelle Revis is playing then I would say it’s him, but this year he didn’t get a chance to play,” started Sherman. “So there were some pretty good performances. Tim Jennings had a great year, but I think it would be out of, surprisingly, Antonio Cromartie, and Keenan Lewis from Pittsburgh doesn’t get a lot of respect because he doesn’t get a lot of picks, but he’s a heck of a corner. So I think it’s a close discussion between those guys and Charles Tillman. That’s the discussion.”

So that's Bree's AND Richard Sherman praising Lewis, but I guess I'll take your word for it.

Right, because quoting a well-known shittalker who thinks he's better than Revis is a hellu'va way to make your case.

He probably looked at stats and saw who had the most pass defensed and regurgitated a name. I'm not saying the kid doesn't have talent, but a ballhawk? With one interception? You lost me.

SteelersCanada
08-02-2013, 04:14 PM
Do you know what they said about Demarcus Van Dyke?? He's gonna be great for the Steelers. :sofunny:

Still harping on things that I never said. Man, you must have a ton of spare time.

pete74
08-02-2013, 04:37 PM
Lewis dosnt need to be a ball hawk just like Taylor dosnt. They need to shut down therereceiver and both are ggood at doing that. I think our secondary will take a big step backwards after dumping Lewis.

Fire Arians
08-02-2013, 04:40 PM
Lewis dosnt need to be a ball hawk just like Taylor dosnt. They need to shut down therereceiver and both are ggood at doing that. I think our secondary will take a big step backwards after dumping Lewis.

losing lewis hurts, but i have faith in allen if he can stay healthy. also expecting jarvis jones to bring the pressure on, I feel this year's team will have more sacks and forced turnovers than last year.

pete74
08-02-2013, 04:43 PM
I agree that we will have alot more sacks, my worry is the secondary. I personally wanted to cut Taylorand keep Lewis and Allen. I gguess only time will tell. Hopefully I'm wrong and Taylor has another good year. I have faith in Allen if he can stay healthy

EbonySteel86
08-02-2013, 06:21 PM
Right, because quoting a well-known shittalker who thinks he's better than Revis is a hellu'va way to make your case.

He probably looked at stats and saw who had the most pass defensed and regurgitated a name. I'm not saying the kid doesn't have talent, but a ballhawk? With one interception? You lost me.

Have you even watched Lewis play, or are you just butt hurt that he left and now you wanna hate on him? Sherman isn't the type to hand out praises to ANYBODY including Revis, so for him to part his lips and Keenan Lewis name flys out his mouth as being one of the better CB's in the league speaks volumes to me. Both him and Bree's can't be wrong. I would rather we let Ike go and kept Lewis and Allen. Now THAT would of been a nice tandem for years to come. We might get one or 2 more years outa Ike then what? Gay???

SteelersCanada
08-02-2013, 06:34 PM
Have you even watched Lewis play, or are you just butt hurt that he left and now you wanna hate on him? Sherman isn't the type to hand out praises to ANYBODY including Revis, so for him to part his lips and Keenan Lewis name flys out his mouth as being one of the better CB's in the league speaks volumes to me. Both him and Bree's can't be wrong. I would rather we let Ike go and kept Lewis and Allen. Now THAT would of been a nice tandem for years to come. We might get one or 2 more years outa Ike then what? Gay???

So there's a couple things wrong with what you said, but I'll start with the most glaring - William Gay is a bandaid option. He's by no means the answer in the long term, but Curtis Brown has done dick all since coming into the league. Gay is an upgrade over Brown in the Nickel and that's why he's on the team. Simple as that.

Second of all, how many times do I have to say that Lewis has talent? I've never once denied the kid has talent. He's just not a ballhawk. He has one career interception and people are acting as if he's one of the better CBs in the league, despite being run over by AJ Green and Dez Bryant earlier this year. Seriously, go look at a prior post I made when Lewis was lined up against a teams number one receiver vs. when Ike was lined up against them. The numbers are a little eye opening.

Richard Sherman talks. A lot. I take what he says with a grain of salt.

cbrunn
08-02-2013, 07:31 PM
So there's a couple things wrong with what you said, but I'll start with the most glaring - William Gay is a bandaid option. He's by no means the answer in the long term, but Curtis Brown has done dick all since coming into the league. Gay is an upgrade over Brown in the Nickel and that's why he's on the team. Simple as that.

Second of all, how many times do I have to say that Lewis has talent? I've never once denied the kid has talent. He's just not a ballhawk. He has one career interception and people are acting as if he's one of the better CBs in the league, despite being run over by AJ Green and Dez Bryant earlier this year. Seriously, go look at a prior post I made when Lewis was lined up against a teams number one receiver vs. when Ike was lined up against them. The numbers are a little eye opening.

Richard Sherman talks. A lot. I take what he says with a grain of salt.

That's what I've always thought ... Lewis played well this last year , but for the most part he was lined up against #2s .. he hasn't shown that against #1s

and it was the right move to keep Ike and let Lewis go ... for all you know Lewis didn't really care and wanted to play for his hometown NO anyway ... what if you cut Ike and Lewis still goes HOME and play for his hometown team ???

VaDave
08-02-2013, 09:43 PM
Have you even watched Lewis play, or are you just butt hurt that he left and now you wanna hate on him? Sherman isn't the type to hand out praises to ANYBODY including Revis, so for him to part his lips and Keenan Lewis name flys out his mouth as being one of the better CB's in the league speaks volumes to me. Both him and Bree's can't be wrong. I would rather we let Ike go and kept Lewis and Allen. Now THAT would of been a nice tandem for years to come. We might get one or 2 more years outa Ike then what? Gay???

IMO Lewis is a good corner, just not worth $25 Mil, especially when Allen was going limit to his playing time to dime and nickel packages.

EbonySteel86
08-02-2013, 10:25 PM
So there's a couple things wrong with what you said, but I'll start with the most glaring - William Gay is a bandaid option. He's by no means the answer in the long term, but Curtis Brown has done dick all since coming into the league. Gay is an upgrade over Brown in the Nickel and that's why he's on the team. Simple as that.

Second of all, how many times do I have to say that Lewis has talent? I've never once denied the kid has talent. He's just not a ballhawk. He has one career interception and people are acting as if he's one of the better CBs in the league, despite being run over by AJ Green and Dez Bryant earlier this year. Seriously, go look at a prior post I made when Lewis was lined up against a teams number one receiver vs. when Ike was lined up against them. The numbers are a little eye opening.

Richard Sherman talks. A lot. I take what he says with a grain of salt.
I didn't say Lewis was a ballhawk, Pro Bowler and SB MVP Brew Brees did. Obviously he saw something in training camp that made him come to that conclusion. And Sherman might talk ALOT but he backs it up and he's better than every CB on this roster, so I value their opinion over some dude on message board.

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-02-2013, 10:58 PM
Still harping on things that I never said. Man, you must have a ton of spare time.

Sorry, I was just paraphrasing. You actually said this "I have high hopes for DeMarcus and I think he has the potential to be the future at Corner"

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=97295&highlight=dyke&page=4

BTW, it doesnt take much time to use a computer.

SteelersCanada
08-02-2013, 11:14 PM
Sorry, I was just paraphrasing. You actually said this "I have high hopes for DeMarcus and I think he has the potential to be the future at Corner"

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=97295&highlight=dyke&page=4

BTW, it doesnt take much time to use a computer.

What's that P word I used? Oh, potential. Gotcha.

Yeah, keep being cocky. It's cute.

GBMelBlount
08-02-2013, 11:16 PM
Lewis played well but simply was not worth what he wanted...not to the Steelers anyway.

We probably won't know how good he really is until he's played in NO for a year or two.

Sometimes a good player shines because of the situation.

EbonySteel86
08-03-2013, 09:19 AM
Sorry, I was just paraphrasing. You actually said this "I have high hopes for DeMarcus and I think he has the potential to be the future at Corner"

http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=97295&highlight=dyke&page=4

BTW, it doesnt take much time to use a computer.

Future at corner???? You lost me on that one!:sofunny:

SteelersCanada
08-03-2013, 11:07 AM
Future at corner???? You lost me on that one!:sofunny:

This coming from the guy who can't comprehend a Quarterback backing his teams free agent signing.

What was Brees supposed to say? "Yeah, he can't pick off passes for shit but he can cover. Somewhat." If a Quarterback doesn't throw his support behind a free agent signing, someone is fucking up somewhere. I don't know why this is such a hard concept.

Grain of salt big guy. :noidea:

EbonySteel86
08-03-2013, 11:17 AM
Lewis played well but simply was not worth what he wanted...not to the Steelers anyway.

We probably won't know how good he really is until he's played in NO for a year or two.

Sometimes a good player shines because of the situation.

You might be right. Ryan uses a lot of bump and run coverage and I think that plays right into a CB like Lewis. We don't ask or CB's to do that for some reason.

EbonySteel86
08-03-2013, 11:38 AM
Lewis played well but simply was not worth what he wanted...not to the Steelers anyway.

We probably won't know how good he really is until he's played in NO for a year or two.

Sometimes a good player shines because of the situation.

This coming from the guy who can't comprehend a Quarterback backing his teams free agent signing.

What was Brees supposed to say? "Yeah, he can't pick off passes for shit but he can cover. Somewhat." If a Quarterback doesn't throw his support behind a free agent signing, someone is fucking up somewhere. I don't know why this is such a hard concept.

Grain of salt big guy. :noidea:

He would of said that about DeMarcus! :sofunny:

El-Gonzo Jackson
08-03-2013, 11:50 AM
What's that P word I used? Oh, potential. Gotcha.

Yeah, keep being cocky. It's cute.

So I guess that Josh Victorian has the Potential to be the future at CB too? Mike Golic Jr has the Potential to be the future at OG, Dwyer the Potential to be the future at RB.

Anybody in camp right now has the "Potential" to be the future at any position. So that is your escape clause on any opinion you have of DVD? :blah:

Future at corner???? You lost me on that one!:sofunny:

I think his future is "down on the corner", if he cant beat Josh Victorian for the final CB spot.

SteelersCanada
08-03-2013, 12:09 PM
He would of said that about DeMarcus! :sofunny:

He might have considering that DeMarcus has the same amount of career interceptions as Keenan does. Man, that Van Dyke kid is a ballhawk!

EbonySteel86
08-03-2013, 12:11 PM
So I guess that Josh Victorian has the Potential to be the future at CB too? Mike Golic Jr has the Potential to be the future at OG, Dwyer the Potential to be the future at RB.

Anybody in camp right now has the "Potential" to be the future at any position. So that is your escape clause on any opinion you have of DVD? :blah:



I think his future is "down on the corner", if he cant beat Josh Victorian for the final CB spot.

Right!!! But he wants to downplay Lewis and what legitimate top tier NFL players are saying about him? Gimme a break!

pete74
08-03-2013, 01:53 PM
Anybody who talks crap on Lewis now would be talking about how great he is if we resigned him. He is a very good corner and I'm sure the Steelers wanted to keep him but didn't because they had no money and they had Allen to fill in.