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FanSince72
11-08-2012, 09:51 AM
Rashard Mendenhall will be starter
By Jamison Hensley | ESPN.com

It's unknown whether Rashard Mendenhall will play Monday night against the Kansas City Chiefs, but he will remain the Steelers' starting running back when he's recovered from an Achilles injury, running backs coach Kirby Wilson told The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review on Wednesday.

"Rashard has always been our lead dog and our top runner," Wilson told the newspaper.

After missing the first three games of the season because of offseason knee surgery, Mendenhall returned to gain 101 total yards against the Eagles before injuring his Achilles the next game. In his absence, Jonathan Dwyer has gained 100 yards rushing in back-to-back games, and Isaac Redman produced a career-high 147 yards rushing last Sunday.

There is a chance the Steelers will go with a running back-by-committee approach, and Wilson repeated what coach Mike Tomlin said earlier in the week about giving the ball to the running back who is having the most success during the game. Wilson indicated the first opportunities would go to Mendenhall.

"Rashard is the complete package -- power, speed, explosiveness," Wilson said. "He is the guy who can take a 10-yard run and make people miss and get 20 more. We think Jonathan has things that he is great at. Isaac has some things that he is great at. But Rashard is the complete package. Rashard has proved that he can do it over the long haul."

Mendenhall is considered questionable for Monday's game against Kansas City. A first-round pick by Pittsburgh in 2008, he is an unrestricted free agent at the end of the season.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8605494/rashard-mendenhall-pittsburgh-steelers-remain-starter-return-achilles-injury



I've said before that I generally agree that a player shouldn't lose his job to injury, but to say that Mendy will be the starter and clearly imply that neither Dwyer nor Redman are the "complete package" is wrong.

I think if Mendy is healthy, he should be given an opportunity to play.
But I also think that in light of what Redman and Dwyer have been doing, he should have to earn that starting job rather than having it handed to him.

Wilson also goes on to gush about Mendy's explosiveness and ability to turn a short play into a big one.
This may be true, but I could say the very same thing about either Redman or Dwyer and to imply that they don't have such ability disses both of them.

I've always believed that Mendy is better at running to the outside or serving as a pass-catcher out of the backfield than a "through-the-line" power back (think Fast Willie) and I DO NOT see him as having the ability to pound the ball straight ahead as Dwyer and Redman have done.

I think Mendy has a role in this team but I'm not sure that "Starting Running Back" should be it.

Thouights?

Darkstorm05
11-08-2012, 10:04 AM
Mendy is a starting caliber back, and the others are not. The coaches is simply confirming this. Again, go watch Dwyers performances int hose big games he had. Any time he had a decent run he was winded and whining to come out. That's not a starting back.

Dwyer and Redman combined have less than half of Mendy's career rushing yards, and what, like a 5th of his TD's? Are we forgetting the early games this year where this awesome duo were putting up a combine 40 yards per game? Yes, the line was bad, but that was the same bad line Mendy has put up multiple 1000+ yard seasons with. And we have yet to see him run from behind the newly cohesive line this year.

FanSince72
11-08-2012, 10:58 AM
Mendy is a starting caliber back, and the others are not. The coaches is simply confirming this. Again, go watch Dwyers performances int hose big games he had. Any time he had a decent run he was winded and whining to come out. That's not a starting back.

Dwyer and Redman combined have less than half of Mendy's career rushing yards, and what, like a 5th of his TD's? Are we forgetting the early games this year where this awesome duo were putting up a combine 40 yards per game? Yes, the line was bad, but that was the same bad line Mendy has put up multiple 1000+ yard seasons with. And we have yet to see him run from behind the newly cohesive line this year.

You may be right, but I think that Mendenhall is overrated (always have) and then there's the idea of going with whatever is working or the "hot hand".
I think that although both Redman and Dwyer are more "raw". I think each of them has more long term potential than Mendenhall ever had. Like I said, Mendy - to me - is more of an outside / pass-catching back and has never impressed me as a power rusher.

But like you said, he had a pretty crappy line in front of him and now that seems better, so we'll see if that makes a difference.

Darkstorm05
11-08-2012, 11:05 AM
I fully believe Mendy will go elsewhere next year. However, I'm not convinced we'll be ok, as some others here are. If I had to lay money, I'd bet on Mendy leaving, our run game bogging down next year as the current group struggles, then another early round RB pick the following year to address the issue.

Fire Arians
11-08-2012, 11:31 AM
i hope he comes back strong this year to prove the doubters wrong. he is our best RB

Rotorhead
11-08-2012, 11:44 AM
I have always said Mendy was just wrong for BA's offense, Haleys off may be just what he needed, but if he wants to stay in the Burgh, he needs to string together an exceptional rest of the season to prove his worth, otherwise they will let him walk.

Fire Arians
11-08-2012, 12:04 PM
not to mention he had 1000 yard seasons behind that train wreck of an o-line we had in the past few years, he could do some damage behind the one we have right now

those run plays where dwyer / red are getting 10-15 yard gainers could easily be 30+ with mendy carrying the rock, he just has that breakaway speed/acceleration that premier NFL backs have and they do not.

todd haley's offense will get him in space where he's dangerous, and with the improved o-line / will johnson, just watch

jjpro11
11-08-2012, 12:59 PM
Mendy will explode in this offense if he is healthy.. Just watch.

EbonySteel86
11-08-2012, 01:08 PM
I don't even know anymore. :noidea:

steelfury02
11-08-2012, 01:23 PM
my gut says there is going to be some rust on his part, and some tweaking to do to see what works

I'm not so sure I'd go from him sitting around to carrying the load right away anyways if it were up to me. Put him in for about 10-12 carries and see what he does with it.

Who knows, the solidity of this line might be all he needs to do damage from anywhere

I do agree with you though. I'd like to see him get some opps in the flat

lardlad
11-08-2012, 01:25 PM
I defend Mendenhall a lot to people I talk to about the run game. But my biggest issue on who should start are, if there isn't a hole, Mendenhall isn't going to make one. Sure he is a home run hitter, but these other guys will get first downs. Seems Mendenhall gets his in chunks, and IMO the running game is about getting first downs, use Wallace for the home runs.

LVSteelersfan
11-08-2012, 01:36 PM
I honestly think Mendenhall does not have a nose for finding the holes. Instead of just powering through a small hole like the others do, he will dance around and try to find a bigger hole. And that is not going to be there. You have to hit it fast and hit it hard in the second or two there is daylight. Redman and Dwyer are both good at that. I am just not convinced Mendenhall is as far ahead of the other backs as people want to think he is.

Hawaii 5-0
11-08-2012, 01:42 PM
Steelers figuring out how to handle their running backs

Posted by Josh Alper on November 8, 2012

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/350x-401-e1352382651739.jpg?w=217

The Steelers have one of those good problems with their running backs right now.

They’ve had a running back run for more than 100 yards in each of the last three games with Jonathan Dwyer doing the trick twice and Isaac Redman pulling it off in Sunday’s win over the Giants. Both of them were put into the feature back role as a result of injuries and both of them produced, leaving the Steeler with a tough choice to make between them when everybody’s healthy.

Complicating matters even more is the fact that Rashard Mendenhall is still the guy that running backs coach Kirby Wilson considers to be the starter. Mendenhall has missed most of the year with knee and Achilles injuries, but Wilson told the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review that Mendenhall has the “complete package” and would be first on the depth chart when he’s healthy. Steelers coach Mike Tomlin has expressed a desire to stick with one back instead of going the committee route, so it would seem Mendenhall, who seems unlikely to play again this week, would get the first chance at that job when he returns to the lineup.

Assuming, of course, the Steelers don’t try a different approach. Redman agrees that the Steelers should ride one back, but also suggested going with two tailback looks that the team practiced during training camp.

“We did a lot of it,” Redman said, via Ed Bouchette of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. “I’m surprised we haven’t done more, but everybody’s been banged up. Maybe when we get everybody back and everybody rolling maybe we’ll starting seeing two running backs.”

Dwyer and Redman both appear to be on track to play this week, so perhaps we will see some of those looks on Monday night. Or we’ll just see more of the same for a team that’s averaging 155 yards on the ground in their last three games. Either way, having too many backs and a successful running game is the kind of issue that should sort itself out just fine for the Steelers.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/08/steelers-figuring-out-how-to-handle-their-running-backs/

Fire Arians
11-08-2012, 01:49 PM
^ good post, we do have a 'good' problem right now. I'm a little disappointed in baron batch, although he's been money in pass protection.

FanSince72
11-08-2012, 01:56 PM
I defend Mendenhall a lot to people I talk to about the run game. But my biggest issue on who should start are, if there isn't a hole, Mendenhall isn't going to make one. Sure he is a home run hitter, but these other guys will get first downs. Seems Mendenhall gets his in chunks, and IMO the running game is about getting first downs, use Wallace for the home runs.


BINGO!

Mendy may very well have great breakaway speed and could turn a 10 or 15 yd. run into 30-plus (as someone said earlier). But Mendy's problem is GETTING that 10 or 15 yds. to begin with because he simply doesn't have the chops to be able to create holes through which to run.

What was everyone's biggest complaint about him?
That he stopped behind the line as if waiting for an elevator door to open.

Dwyer and Redman don't do that. They just slam into whatever opening is there and either force their way through, or they change direction in an instant and go through the next available gap. They do this because they have the power to do so. Mendy is absolutely great in the open field and has the chops to accelerate quickly and make guys miss, but first he has to GET to the open field. That's why I think his real value would be either as a pass-catcher out of the backfield or as an off-tackle runner because in each instance he's already in a less populated area of the field and wouldn't have to break through a ton of linemen.

But as an "A-gap / B-gap" runner?
Not so much. He just doesn't have the power for it.

The only way I can see him being a consistent through the line is if he can take advantage of excellent blocking and be given good sized gaps to run through. But if he has to create a gap or widen a small one, he won't be able to do that consistently enough to say it's worth having him in that role.

Basically, if you're thinking "Steeler Football" (like with Jerome), then it's Dwyer / Redman.

But if the play is more "West Coast", then Mendy is the first choice by far.

I think Haley is trying to create an offense that can be both "Ground and Pound" as well as have the ability to open up into a more West Coast style and if that's true, then Mendy (along with Rainey and some TE's) will have their roles and Dwyer / Redman along with a fullback will have theirs.

steeltheone
11-08-2012, 01:56 PM
i hope he comes back strong this year to prove the doubters wrong. he is our best RB

He is, plain and simple!

teegre
11-08-2012, 01:57 PM
^ good post, we do have a 'good' problem right now.

That's exactly what some of us were discussing in another thread (what a nice "problem" to have).

Darkstorm05
11-08-2012, 02:05 PM
Let's check out how Dwyer and Redman did before the bye, prior to the line beginning to put up some proper play...

Vs Denver

Dwyer: 9 attempts for 43 yards
Redman: 11 attempts for 20 yards


VS The Jets

Dwyer: 12 attempts for 28 yards
Redman: 12 attempts for 25 yards


Vs Oakland

Dwyer: 3 attempts for -1 yards
Redman: 9 attempts for 27 yards

Hot damn, these guys are surely pro-bowl bound! Truly, because Redman is on track to put up 550 yards this year...a personal record for him! And then it gets better, because after the bye we actually managed to open a hole, and Dwyer ran for a whole 24 yards before his legs literally came apart under the strain of this Olympic feat.

So does that paragraph right there seem really silly? Because it's dialed down to about a 3 compared to saying Mendy should be benched for these two. To be perfectly honest it isn't even physically possible, because they both have showed that they can't take that many consecutive carries without gassing out big time. Mendenhall's WORST full season behind the crappiest run plays Arians could could copy from his Madden 09 playbook he still put up 930 yards and more TD's than Redman and Dwyer combined.

Go look at the replays on the big running games of the last few weeks. There's quite a few instances where we almost have a gap, then our new lead blocker pops it clear and springs Dwyer or Redman, who picks up some good yardage before being run down. Just wait for it, and see what happens when they spring Mendy on a few of those plays.

Why do we have to have this argument every time a backup has a couple good games? Seriously, there are people here who think our 2nd, 3rd, AND 4th string RB would all be starting anywhere else in the league if they weren't stuck here being held back by Mendy.

tanda10506
11-08-2012, 02:43 PM
Let's check out how Dwyer and Redman did before the bye, prior to the line beginning to put up some proper play...

Vs Denver

Dwyer: 9 attempts for 43 yards
Redman: 11 attempts for 20 yards


VS The Jets

Dwyer: 12 attempts for 28 yards
Redman: 12 attempts for 25 yards


Vs Oakland

Dwyer: 3 attempts for -1 yards
Redman: 9 attempts for 27 yards

Hot damn, these guys are surely pro-bowl bound! Truly, because Redman is on track to put up 550 yards this year...a personal record for him! And then it gets better, because after the bye we actually managed to open a hole, and Dwyer ran for a whole 24 yards before his legs literally came apart under the strain of this Olympic feat.

So does that paragraph right there seem really silly? Because it's dialed down to about a 3 compared to saying Mendy should be benched for these two. To be perfectly honest it isn't even physically possible, because they both have showed that they can't take that many consecutive carries without gassing out big time. Mendenhall's WORST full season behind the crappiest run plays Arians could could copy from his Madden 09 playbook he still put up 930 yards and more TD's than Redman and Dwyer combined.

Go look at the replays on the big running games of the last few weeks. There's quite a few instances where we almost have a gap, then our new lead blocker pops it clear and springs Dwyer or Redman, who picks up some good yardage before being run down. Just wait for it, and see what happens when they spring Mendy on a few of those plays.

Why do we have to have this argument every time a backup has a couple good games? Seriously, there are people here who think our 2nd, 3rd, AND 4th string RB would all be starting anywhere else in the league if they weren't stuck here being held back by Mendy.

No reason to only use those first few games. In the beginning of the season NOBODY could run the ball due to the O line. There was never a hole. I understand that you like Mendy, but use the more current stats of Dwyer and Redman to compare the situation. The way we run in the next game is more likely to be the way we ran the last, not the way we ran 5 or 6 games ago.

I was neutral on Mendy till this offseason when I re-watched the entire 2010 season on NFL rewind. Mendy is likely the most "talented" back, and I do believe he has the capability of being a great back, even here if the O line does their part. He was our offense in most of the 2010 AFC Championship game and the O line was playing nothing like it is playing now. So I agree that Mendy should get some carries, I think we are all curious to see what he can do behind a good O line like we finally seem to have, but fixing something that's not broke often turns into a problem. We'll find out. If Mendy hits the first hole and dances after that then he has the potential to still have a 1000 yard system, but if he dances first like in 2011 he will end up back on the pine. I don't care who's running the ball as long as it's succesful.

As for the Wilson implying that Dwyer and Redman are not the complete package, it seemed like more of a complement to Mendy then anything else, but even if Dwyer is not the "complete package" who cares, the Bus wasn't the complete package either and that turned out pretty damn well.

Darkstorm05
11-08-2012, 02:53 PM
No reason to only use those first few games. In the beginning of the season NOBODY could run the ball due to the O line. There was never a hole. I understand that you like Mendy, but use the more current stats of Dwyer and Redman to compare the situation. The way we run in the next game is more likely to be the way we ran the last, not the way we ran 5 or 6 games ago.




I fully understand what you're saying here, but it isn't possible to compare. The O-Line couldn't have opened a gap big enough to let a fly through those first 3 games. Then we had the bye. then we had Mendy and the line was almost cohesive. Mendy had a good game, but went down injured again.

Meanwhile Dwyer was benched for poor performance. He can't offer up a comparison here, other than to point out that the coaches felt his efforts didn't warrant dressing for these games. So he comes back, the line gets it together, and he does great, but he's gassed constantly, and goes down just from what appears to be the strain of carrying the running game as the #1 back. Redman is finally uninjured and comes back to the line doing their job, and has a big week.

So, what we really have as a body of work here is Redman with 1 big game, Dwyer with 1.75 big games and injuring himself, up against Mendy and his multiple 1000+ yard years, and more TD's than Dwyer or Redman could even count.

The reason it irks me is because everyone blows off Mendy's several 1000 yard rushing seasons just because Redman finally had a big day. The day either of these two sees 1000 yards and 10 TD's in a season, then go open threads all day long about them being better backs. We should throw out the first 3 games this year because it isn't fair to mention them, but should instead count the single game Redman came to play?

Riddle_Of_Steel
11-08-2012, 03:09 PM
Let's check out how Dwyer and Redman did before the bye, prior to the line beginning to put up some proper play...

Vs Denver

Dwyer: 9 attempts for 43 yards
Redman: 11 attempts for 20 yards


VS The Jets

Dwyer: 12 attempts for 28 yards
Redman: 12 attempts for 25 yards


Vs Oakland

Dwyer: 3 attempts for -1 yards
Redman: 9 attempts for 27 yards

Hot damn, these guys are surely pro-bowl bound!

Keep in mind though that Redman got injured in week 3 of preseason and has been running on two sore ankles since then.

Also, since mendy did not play in those games, we have no idea how badly he would have fared.

Mendy dances around behind the line for too long, oftentimes resulting in lost yards on 1st & 2nd down (aka Willie Parker), whereas Dwyer and Redman are better north-south runners.

I am excited to see what mendy can do behind the new Oline, but I do think Redmand and Dwyer are better suited to our current scheme and roster.

Fire Arians
11-08-2012, 03:11 PM
the first running back this season to dial in a strong performance was mendenhall vs the eagles

Darkstorm05
11-08-2012, 03:15 PM
the first running back this season to dial in a strong performance was mendenhall vs the eagles

Truth. And I still see everyone says Mendy "Dances and Spins", but really, I can't recall a single spin in that Eagles game. And still, yardage aside, how are we going to get by with the conditioning on these two? Go back and watch Dwyer in those two big games he had. Any time he ran more than 5 or 6 yards he had his hands on knees gasping for air. So if we have these two make decent runs back to back we can't have any more run plays that series while our backs gasp for oxygen on the sidelines? That was NOT NFL starting caliber conditioning.

bornaSteelersfan
11-08-2012, 03:22 PM
Mendenhall is definitely our starter. He has proven to be able to "carry the load" over the course of many seasons. I only hope he can keep carrying the ball. His biggest flaw is his tendency to sometimes drop the ball of late. No other running back we have can hit the holes and then accelerate through them like he can. I have watched Dwyer and Redman get caught from behind and get winded. I have also seen them miss the gap (sometimes still able to get yardage). With this line, Mendy's "dancing days" are over.

Blitzberg06
11-08-2012, 03:57 PM
not to mention he had 1000 yard seasons behind that train wreck of an o-line we had in the past few years, he could do some damage behind the one we have right now

those run plays where dwyer / red are getting 10-15 yard gainers could easily be 30+ with mendy carrying the rock, he just has that breakaway speed/acceleration that premier NFL backs have and they do not.

todd haley's offense will get him in space where he's dangerous, and with the improved o-line / will johnson, just watch

I've always been a Mendy hater and you sir just convinced me to give the guy one last shot. So we shall see what he can do behind this new O line and new scheme. I can't wait for freaking decastro to get back and play.

PhantomJB93
11-08-2012, 04:28 PM
Mendy has a better skillset and SHOULD be better than the other guys, but right now I would just stick with Remand and Dwyer. It's working. Mendy wasn't. I know the Oline has improved since he last played but I'd still rather not take the chance. We're on a roll right now and the last thing we need is to kill momentum by changing up the RB situation yet again and having it not work.

Obviously everyone's going to get carries anyway, I say let Redman or Dwyer have the majority of early carries and if when Mendy gets his shot he looks really good, let him take over instead.

FanSince72
11-08-2012, 04:52 PM
Let's check out how Dwyer and Redman did before the bye, prior to the line beginning to put up some proper play...

Vs Denver

Dwyer: 9 attempts for 43 yards
Redman: 11 attempts for 20 yards


VS The Jets

Dwyer: 12 attempts for 28 yards
Redman: 12 attempts for 25 yards


Vs Oakland

Dwyer: 3 attempts for -1 yards
Redman: 9 attempts for 27 yards

Hot damn, these guys are surely pro-bowl bound! Truly, because Redman is on track to put up 550 yards this year...a personal record for him! And then it gets better, because after the bye we actually managed to open a hole, and Dwyer ran for a whole 24 yards before his legs literally came apart under the strain of this Olympic feat.

So does that paragraph right there seem really silly? Because it's dialed down to about a 3 compared to saying Mendy should be benched for these two. To be perfectly honest it isn't even physically possible, because they both have showed that they can't take that many consecutive carries without gassing out big time. Mendenhall's WORST full season behind the crappiest run plays Arians could could copy from his Madden 09 playbook he still put up 930 yards and more TD's than Redman and Dwyer combined.

Go look at the replays on the big running games of the last few weeks. There's quite a few instances where we almost have a gap, then our new lead blocker pops it clear and springs Dwyer or Redman, who picks up some good yardage before being run down. Just wait for it, and see what happens when they spring Mendy on a few of those plays.

Why do we have to have this argument every time a backup has a couple good games? Seriously, there are people here who think our 2nd, 3rd, AND 4th string RB would all be starting anywhere else in the league if they weren't stuck here being held back by Mendy.

Ah! When in doubt, drag out the stats.

I'm not talking about numbers, I'm talking about running style and the potential both Redman and Dwyer have shown. Mendenhall has speed and quickness but does not have the breakthrough power or the overall "push" of the other two backs. Put another way, I'd feel more confident when looking at, say, a Third-and-three situation with either Dwyer or Redman than I would with Mendy. Out in the flat or running off-tackle, I'd take Mendy hands down. But if we need a power running game, we won't get it from Mendenhall, but I'd bet the rent that either Redman or Dwyer would deliver the goods consistently.

As far as "springing Mendy" is concerned, that's my whole point; he needs a gap to run through before he does what he does best while Dwyer / Redman often help to create their own gaps just like Jerome used to do. I agree that once he's past the line, Mendy is a joy to watch, but he has never demonstrated any particular ability to get through a defensive front without a lot of help from the O-line.

If you want flash and moves, go to Mendenhall.
But if you want ball control, it's Redman or Dwyer hands down.

Darkstorm05
11-08-2012, 05:35 PM
Ah! When in doubt, drag out the stats.

I'm not talking about numbers, I'm talking about running style and the potential both Redman and Dwyer have shown. Mendenhall has speed and quickness but does not have the breakthrough power or the overall "push" of the other two backs. Put another way, I'd feel more confident when looking at, say, a Third-and-three situation with either Dwyer or Redman than I would with Mendy. Out in the flat or running off-tackle, I'd take Mendy hands down. But if we need a power running game, we won't get it from Mendenhall, but I'd bet the rent that either Redman or Dwyer would deliver the goods consistently.

As far as "springing Mendy" is concerned, that's my whole point; he needs a gap to run through before he does what he does best while Dwyer / Redman often help to create their own gaps just like Jerome used to do. I agree that once he's past the line, Mendy is a joy to watch, but he has never demonstrated any particular ability to get through a defensive front without a lot of help from the O-line.

If you want flash and moves, go to Mendenhall.
But if you want ball control, it's Redman or Dwyer hands down.

Except they don't make themselves much of anything. It's easy to want to ignore stats when they show these two have never done a thing. That power run game they bring sure did put the Raiders in their place. And Denver. Instead of throwing out actual established data based on multiple seasons of performance, how about pointing out some verifiable facts that back your claims that they're better? We're not talking about situational stats here. This is YEARS of starting back numbers under Mendys belt that these two would need YEARS of big games to begin to match.

FanSince72
11-08-2012, 06:08 PM
Except they don't make themselves much of anything. It's easy to want to ignore stats when they show these two have never done a thing. That power run game they bring sure did put the Raiders in their place. And Denver. Instead of throwing out actual established data based on multiple seasons of performance, how about pointing out some verifiable facts that back your claims that they're better? We're not talking about situational stats here. This is YEARS of starting back numbers under Mendys belt that these two would need YEARS of big games to begin to match.

Let's just call it a gut feeling and leave it at that, OK?

Whatever Dwyer/Redman didn't do in the past has obviously changed because they're looking very good right now.
Maybe it's Haley's offensive plan, maybe it's more playing time, or maybe they're both just a year older and a bit wiser and a bit more mature. But whatever "it" is, you cannot deny that the last few weeks with Dwyer/Redman have been a major departure from what we've become used to seeing and they've had great success and success builds confidence and confidence makes them even better players.

I'll agree that Mendenhall may not have had the best of all worlds in the past with an offensive line that was shaky and never consistent and maybe now that that's changed he too will look like a superstar as well. No one can say anything about him yet because we haven't really had a chance to see him both at his best and with our new and improved O-line.

But I HAVE seen Dwyer/Redman both with the crappy line and now with the "new" line and all I've seen is positive. I compared Dwyer to Bettis way back in the preseason and virtually every talking head mentions both he and Jerome in the same sentence on a regular basis now. Meanwhile, Redman put on a clinic against the Giants and did all of the things that we counted on Jerome to do for all those years and he looked very comfortable and very confident doing it.

Whatever the "numbers" say about either of these guys or whether those numbers can compare to Mendy, or Jerome or burger sales at McDonald's may mean something to you but they mean nothing to me. I like to go with what I'm seeing right now and right now I'm seeing two running backs that make me feel as if we don't need to worry about a damned thing as far as a running game is concerned and that's all I care about.

If Mendy comes back and makes this team look even better, that's great. But I think he needs to demonstrate that he can actually do that first before being anointed "starter" and that what Dwyer/Redman have done and (if I'm right) will continue to do in the future cannot be ignored or dismissed because a table of meaningless numbers says so.

Don't forget; "stats" can only tell you what someone has done after they've done it. What I'm more interested in is what's happening right now - in real time.

LVSteelersfan
11-08-2012, 06:10 PM
I am rewatching the Eagles game. Mendy just continues to p i $ $ me off the way he carries the ball. He holds it out there like a loaf of bread and doesn't switch to his outside hand when he is running free. Teams that are ball hawks will rip that ball loose very easily and cause fumbles. That is not playing smart and is the reason he has fumbles at the most inopportune times like in the Super Bowl. Tuck that damn ball away.

wera176
11-08-2012, 06:31 PM
I am rewatching the Eagles game. Mendy just continues to p i $ $ me off the way he carries the ball. He holds it out there like a loaf of bread and doesn't switch to his outside hand when he is running free. Teams that are ball hawks will rip that ball loose very easily and cause fumbles. That is not playing smart and is the reason he has fumbles at the most inopportune times like in the Super Bowl. Tuck that damn ball away.


That's NOT why he fumbled in the Super Bowl.

Rotorhead
11-08-2012, 06:35 PM
Um, just a quick point, Mendy was able to string together all those seasons BECAUSE he was the starter. You can't compare stats of a starter to his backup because they will never add up. But if you want to play that stupid game, Mendy has more fumbles in the last few years, Redman has a higher YPC the last few years, Mendy has more carries for a loss, etc etc, see how it is comparing apples to oranges. Doesnt work when you dont cherry pick the stats. It is really simple, Redman/Dwyer are more of a ball control back, Mendy is more of a HR back, which do you prefer toting the ball? Before Haley Redman/Dwyer were the right call cause our off couldnt take the run losses and make up for it, now I am not so sure. Mendy, with Haleys play calling, could be a premier back in this league. I am still a fan of the bigger backs at least getting a few yards each run as it wears out the def as opposed to the other way around. We have great rcvr options now and dont need the dynamic back out of the backfield so much now. I still think Mendy is the most talented back we have, but maybe the Redman/Dwyer type back is better for our system right now.

Fire Arians
11-08-2012, 06:36 PM
I am rewatching the Eagles game. Mendy just continues to p i $ $ me off the way he carries the ball. He holds it out there like a loaf of bread and doesn't switch to his outside hand when he is running free. Teams that are ball hawks will rip that ball loose very easily and cause fumbles. That is not playing smart and is the reason he has fumbles at the most inopportune times like in the Super Bowl. Tuck that damn ball away.

while i think he can tuck the ball better, he fumbled in the green bay game because he was hit before he could even get the exchange cleanly. that was due to david johnson missing his block more than anything.

we can thank bruce arians & his stupid david johnson experiment for that one, or his way of having running plays they'd never practice

Darkstorm05
11-08-2012, 06:45 PM
Um, just a quick point, Mendy was able to string together all those seasons BECAUSE he was the starter. You can't compare stats of a starter to his backup because they will never add up. But if you want to play that stupid game, Mendy has more fumbles in the last few years, Redman has a higher YPC the last few years, Mendy has more carries for a loss, etc etc, see how it is comparing apples to oranges. Doesnt work when you dont cherry pick the stats. It is really simple, Redman/Dwyer are more of a ball control back, Mendy is more of a HR back, which do you prefer toting the ball? Before Haley Redman/Dwyer were the right call cause our off couldnt take the run losses and make up for it, now I am not so sure. Mendy, with Haleys play calling, could be a premier back in this league. I am still a fan of the bigger backs at least getting a few yards each run as it wears out the def as opposed to the other way around. We have great rcvr options now and dont need the dynamic back out of the backfield so much now. I still think Mendy is the most talented back we have, but maybe the Redman/Dwyer type back is better for our system right now.

Yea, so we'll just disagree there. I prefer Mendy having the ball. So do the coaches. Hell, even Dwyer admits he's zero threat to Mendenhall's starting job. Has Dwyer or Redman even managed to carry the ball as many times as Mendy averages in a game without injuring himself?

El-Gonzo Jackson
11-08-2012, 07:20 PM
while i think he can tuck the ball better, he fumbled in the green bay game because he was hit before he could even get the exchange cleanly. that was due to david johnson missing his block more than anything.

we can thank bruce arians & his stupid david johnson experiment for that one, or his way of having running plays they'd never practice

Damn you with your facts and knowledge based posts. :old:

Its easier to just say Mendenhall fumbles and spins all the time without meddling kids like you around.:banging:

LVSteelersfan
11-08-2012, 08:32 PM
Damn you with your facts and knowledge based posts. :old:

Its easier to just say Mendenhall fumbles and spins all the time without meddling kids like you around.:banging:

I am just saying that Mendy carries the ball like a loaf of bread instead of tucking it. Now that I try to recall that Super Bowl fumble (which is hard for an old fart like me) you are correct. But despite that fact, he needs to tuck that sucker away. I noticed Rainey not switching to his outside hand in the last game and he fumbled the ball. Those are basics taught in high school. You would think NFL RBs would know better.

wera176
11-08-2012, 11:29 PM
I am just saying that Mendy carries the ball like a loaf of bread instead of tucking it. Now that I try to recall that Super Bowl fumble (which is hard for an old fart like me) you are correct. But despite that fact, he needs to tuck that sucker away. I noticed Rainey not switching to his outside hand in the last game and he fumbled the ball. Those are basics taught in high school. You would think NFL RBs would know better.

I noticed that on the Rainey fumble too, I was yelling at him, but I don't think he heard me from my living room! Ball Carrier 101.... :noidea:

Some quick stats from espn:

Mendy: 832 carries, 7 fumbles (1 fumble for about every 118 touches) average 4.1 ypc
Redman: 238 carries, 3 fumbles (1 fumble for about every 80 touches) average 4.2 ypc
Dwyer: 83 carries, 1 fumble (1 fumble for 83 touches, :wink02:) average 5.4 ypc

From the BostonHerald: "The 15 NFL backs who surpassed 1,000 rushing yards in 2011 fumbled the ball a combined 51 times on 4,574 touches (4,033 carries, 541 catches). That’s an average of one fumble for every 90 touches."


Doesn't seem Mendy isn't quite a fumble machine...

Hawaii 5-0
11-09-2012, 01:05 AM
On The Steelers: Two running backs could be ticket for success

November 8, 2012 12:20 am
By Ed Bouchette / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

http://d4493f2df0d1b95cfc62-773cd17a86049dd672fafb96394debed.r5.cf2.rackcdn.co m/2012/312/758/redman-and-mendenhall_420.jpg

Isaac Redman and Rashard Mendenhall talk during practice at the team's South Side facility.

So the coach has decided to go with the hot running back most of the time, yet he has two hot running backs. What might he do?

Isaac Redman may have the answer. Put them both back there. The Steelers installed a counter play that involved Redman and fullback Will Johnson last week. Redman initially thought it was for two halfbacks.

"We had a split backfield with me and the fullback, Will Johnson, and we were running that cross, and he was cutting off the end," Redman said. "He would get the carry if it was called for him. I was thinking, maybe we could have two tailbacks back there at the same time."

Radical idea, two tailbacks in the same backfield? What in the world of Franco and Rocky could he be thinking? Or, for that matter, Jamaal Charles and Peyton Hillis. The Kansas City Chiefs use such a formation and, in fact, list it as their first-team offense.

It works for them, sort of. Charles is the fourth-leading rusher in the AFC with 634 yards, and the Chiefs have the No. 3 running attack in the NFL with an average of 149.9 yards per game. If they had not turned the ball over a league-high 29 times, Kansas City might have something there rather than a 1-7 record.

Having two running backs in the same backfield still has its place with some NFL teams, it just has not been a part of the Steelers offense in at least 15 years or since Jerome Bettis arrived in 1996. Before Bettis, the Steelers always had two backs who could run, although they still called one a fullback, such as John L. Williams or Merril Hoge.

"We did a lot of it" in training camp, Redman said. "I'm surprised we haven't done more, but everybody's been banged up. Maybe when we get everybody back and everybody rolling maybe we'll starting seeing two running backs."

It looks as though both Redman and Jonathan Dwyer will be healthy enough to play together this week. Rashard Mendenhall may need one more week before his return from an achilles injury.

What then?

Dwyer is OK with the back-by-committee approach, even though Mike Tomlin said he would like to abandon that. Dwyer also gives credit to Johnson for a resurgence in an offense that has averaged 155 yards rushing the past three games.

"I think it's good to rotate, let everybody get a feel for it," said Dwyer, who had the team's first consecutive 100-yard games in four years before he missed a win against the New York Giants Sunday because of a thigh injury. "Everybody has a role, and, whoever does get [hot], that guy gets the majority of the carries, and if he gets tired the next guy rolls in."

Redman agrees with tackle Max Starks, that one runner should get the brunt of the work, although he can see the dilemma that goes with that. The committee approach also was created because Mendenhall was out and Redman had an ankle injury to open the season, and the coaches did not want to put the load on him because of it.

"By doing that, it was kind of hard to get in a groove," Redman said. "You go in there, you get a carry, you get 2 yards and you might not get another carry for a whole quarter. Then you get 2 yards and then your stats might not look like they should because you're not getting many chances back-to-back to do what you do.

"But, when you have three running backs who are capable, it's a hard spot to be put in as a coach because this guy's getting most of the carries and you have two guys sitting on the side who are capable of playing. I don't know what you do."

Simpler proves to be better

Steelers coordinator Todd Haley has cut back on both the running and passing plays to keep things simpler, and those involved say it has worked.

"We did get to a point this year where we felt like we were getting a little bit out of control with not being simplified with whatever we thought our best personnel packages were," quarterback Ben Roethlisberger said. "We felt like we've got to the point where we felt like we know what our best personnel group is and we just design plays out of those groups."

The backs say reducing the plays they run has helped the ground game because they have gone with what works best.

"Instead of having -- this is just a number -- 50 runs, we said let's just do 25 that we know well and do them well," Roethlisberger said. "We did the same thing in the pass game with formations and motions and everything else."

By reducing the number of plays it runs, an offense must also guard against becoming predictable.

"Correct. That's the approach that you have to have," Roethlisberger said. "That's why I think we were OK doing it because we felt like we could still mix it up enough, still have combination routes and run plays at the same time so, if the run doesn't look good. We can get into a pass or vice versa."

Monday suits them fine

The Steelers have not played a Monday night game at Heinz Field since 2008. Perhaps the NFL saw Monday night games in Pittsburgh as an unfair advantage for the Steelers, who have not lost a Monday game at home in the past 21 years.

"We are excited about playing 'Monday Night Football' here at our place," Tomlin said. "We don't take that lightly."

They have never lost under Tomlin at home on Monday night, never lost at Heinz Field on Monday night, where they are a perfect 6-0, and never lost under Bill Cowher at home on Monday night.

The previous time they lost a Monday night home game, Chuck Noll was the Steelers coach. The New York Giants beat them, 23-20, Oct. 14, 1991. Since then, Cowher went 11-0 at home and Tomlin has gone 3-0, the most recent game a 23-20 overtime victory against Baltimore Sept. 29, 2008.

Overall, the Steelers have won six of their past seven Monday games played home and away, most recently a Dec. 19, 2011 loss in San Francisco.

Short snaps

• Cornerback Ike Taylor was named AFC defensive player of the week for the second time in his career. He became the team's first cornerback to intercept a pass this season when he picked off Giants quarterbacl Eli Manning to go with his five tackles and one pass knockdown.

• Former Penn State receiver Derek Moye was signed to the Steelers practice squad in light of the injury to Antonio Brown. The Steelers could add a receiver before the game to their roster. They have two others on the practice squad, rookie Toney Clemons, and David Gilreath, who also has return ability.

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/on-the-steelers-two-rbs-could-be-ticket-for-success-661108/#ixzz2BhNQQHNa