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lipps83
11-12-2012, 08:57 PM
Only reason this D is ranked #1 is because the Offense leads league in TOP.

Just got schooled by a guy that has not even been an offensive coordinator for a week.

steve314
11-12-2012, 09:10 PM
Only reason this D is ranked #1 is because the Offense leads league in TOP.

Just got schooled by a guy that has not even been an offensive coordinator for a week.

Also an easy schedule. Only one game all year against a top 8 QB.

Ranked 19th if you adjust for strength of schedule.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

GoFor7
11-12-2012, 10:01 PM
Only reason this D is ranked #1 is because the Offense leads league in TOP.

Shhhh! Don't tell that to Yinzer Nation!

Bayz101
11-12-2012, 10:10 PM
Attack of the newbs! :chuckle:

There's another half of football left, 'ya know.

lipps83
11-12-2012, 10:24 PM
One of the worst offenses since 1929 is still taking them to school. Lebeau can't adjust.

Bayz101
11-12-2012, 11:05 PM
Our offense left the stadium twenty minutes ago and our DEFENSE is doing the work to keep us in this thing.

Bayz101
11-12-2012, 11:13 PM
God this defense sucks. :jerkit:

Bayz101
11-12-2012, 11:18 PM
Defense still sucking. :rolleyes:

Bayz101
11-12-2012, 11:27 PM
Well holy shit. Offense sure isn't helping the D, that's for sure. Considering our offense is at the hospital, it's understandable.

SteelersCanada
11-12-2012, 11:57 PM
This guy never has anything nice to say about the Steelers. Are you even a fan? The way the front 7 played in the second half could only be described as dominate. There weren't sacks, but the pressure provided in overtime was enough to cause the interception.

Really tired of your negativity. Let me guess, I'm acting 13 again. :shake01:

LVSteelersfan
11-13-2012, 12:08 AM
EFF YOU BUDDY. Go root for someone else if you are a Steelers fan. But that is highly doubtful. This defense is the only thing that won this game for us. BTW, Leftwich sucks. Batch better be the starter next week if Ben is out or we will get torpedoed big time.

austinfrench76
11-13-2012, 12:09 AM
Silly thread. No basis for this discussion.

maddog78
11-13-2012, 12:10 AM
We got one turnover against a team giving up 4 per game. Sorry, but I'll skip tomorrow's parade.

Bayz101
11-13-2012, 12:21 AM
Our defense was awful! </sarcasm>

Sharkissle29
11-13-2012, 12:26 AM
http://www.silverfishlongboarding.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=77582&d=1333034923

teegre
11-13-2012, 12:27 AM
Our defense was awful! </sarcasm>

Agreed. I was saying the same things... such as:

Four straight three-&-outs... why not five???

I expect a turnover on every single opponent's offensive snap.

And...

Unless it's a shutout, LeBeau sucks!!!

tony hipchest
11-13-2012, 12:30 AM
Only reason this D is ranked #1 is because the Offense leads league in TOP.

Just got schooled by a guy that has not even been an offensive coordinator for a week.

know your football.

brian dabol has been the chiefs OC. it is the DC who is newly appointed.

now that you have been schooled, please be sure to further know your football before you start rediculous threads or be prepeared to have your ass clowned.

:point: :party:

TRH
11-13-2012, 12:35 AM
i believe the defense is honestly, somewhere in the middle of the pack in the league. They're not the worst, but they sure as hell ain't the best....by far.

That said - the offense was HORRIBLE tonight. I couldn't believe how many 1-yard gain and "no-gain" plays we ran...i started to lose count.
And once again : during the last 5 minutes of the 4th, we play "not to win the game - but to play conservatively" and the result of that is 3 and outs and giving the ball back to the other team for them to tie or win. I don't understand. All the other good teams either seal the deal or try to seal it. We don't. Its mindboggling....and it never changes.

tony hipchest
11-13-2012, 12:53 AM
i recognize a turd of a thread...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-3Iq3XQkAw

our #1 ranked defense allowed 200 yds of offense and gave up a jaw dropping 13 points in a win.

we suck! :shout:-fire lebeau and anyone who listens to anything he coaches!!!

teegre
11-13-2012, 12:59 AM
our #1 ranked defense allowed 200 yds of offense and gave up a jaw dropping 13 points in a win.


Why not 150 yards? Why not zero points? Why not seven INTs?

Hmmm... answer me... I'm waiting.

The answer: LeBeau sucks. If anyone else was DC, I promise the aforementioned would happen 100% of the time.

BTW: Losing sure does suck. Uh...

Hawaii 5-0
11-13-2012, 01:31 AM
Our defense was awful! </sarcasm>

no kidding, how does Lawrence Timmons not run in that interception in OT to win the game? :noidea:

instead, we have to depend on Suisham to kick a 23-yard FG to seal the victory.

friggen defense...:mad:

:sarcalert:

lloydwoodson
11-13-2012, 03:09 AM
LeBeau is doing a helluva job this year. Farrior retired and he was the leader on defense. Polamalu, Harrison, and Woodley are all battling injuries constantly. The Steelers have sitll given up the fewest yards per game in the league. That is very impressive to me. This team is playing really well. The Steelers have won 4 in a row and if you're not happy with that... there's the door.

FanSince72
11-13-2012, 09:27 AM
As a frequent critic of Mr. LeBeau and as someone who still believes we have a way to go in terms of the overall performance of our defense, I have to say that after a rocky start, the defense has really come around and is playing quite well lately. In fact, one of my most common complaints over the last couple of seasons has been that we can't seem to stop teams on 3rd and long or other critical situations and even that has changed for the better.

We still have some issues and we still need to see how LeBeau uses Troy when he gets healthy, but overall I am really liking what I'm seeing lately and I hope we keep improving.

jtbsteeler
11-13-2012, 09:36 AM
If you're #1 after week 10 its legit. With the way the rules are made to help the offense, to be #1 at this point is a testament.

#1 overall and #1 against the pass. The Ravens just put up 55points. After the defense wins the game next week please come back and repeat your mantra. Don't back down from your stance that this defense is "smoke and mirrors".

steelfury02
11-13-2012, 09:39 AM
all they need to do is find Ray Rice. Why teams constantly let him chip off and get into the flat time and time again is beyond me

maddog78
11-13-2012, 09:59 AM
all they need to do is find Ray Rice. Why teams constantly let him chip off and get into the flat time and time again is beyond me

He's a superstar, it's not just a matter of teams "letting him do stuff".

The defense is overrated, IMO, but doing the best they can with the aging, injured players on the roster.

The DL is in dire straits, IMO.

SteeleReign
11-13-2012, 12:19 PM
I believe the defense is not the best defense in the league, but I do believe they have gotten better and certainly saved the Steelers' asses yesterday.

There is not enough pressure on the QB and the secondary is still suspect in my mind.

As we all know, the Steelers play to win Super Bowls, not to get into the playoffs and lose. That being said, they will need to beat the likes of Brady, Manning, Schaub, Rodgers, Brees, Ryan, etc to win the Big One. I just don't think the defense, as it looks now, can stop those QBs. Pitt has played one elite QB (P. Manning) and one near-elite QB in Eli Manning. The rest have been between dogshit and average - two of which beat us. The win against Eli is a bit over-hyped - Eli has been pathetic since week 2 and has clearly regressed.

It's not smoke & mirrors, but it's also not as dominant as it appears on paper. We'll find out a lot about this defense over the next three weeks. They will clearly need to be at the top of their game against the Ravens, especially with the no-huddle Flacco likes so much now.

stiller39
11-13-2012, 01:02 PM
the Chiefs had lots of success running to Ziggy Hoods side. I don't think he played well at all. I know the Crows will see this on tape also.....just saying

Terminator
11-13-2012, 01:03 PM
the Chiefs had lots of success running to Ziggy Hoods side. I don't think he played well at all. I know the Crows will see this on tape also.....just saying

Ziggy Hood has been more or less a bust since he was drafted.

cubanstogie
11-13-2012, 01:13 PM
i believe the defense is honestly, somewhere in the middle of the pack in the league. They're not the worst, but they sure as hell ain't the best....by far.

That said - the offense was HORRIBLE tonight. I couldn't believe how many 1-yard gain and "no-gain" plays we ran...i started to lose count.
And once again : during the last 5 minutes of the 4th, we play "not to win the game - but to play conservatively" and the result of that is 3 and outs and giving the ball back to the other team for them to tie or win. I don't understand. All the other good teams either seal the deal or try to seal it. We don't. Its mindboggling....and it never changes.

They have gotten a lot better at trying to seal the deal since arrival of Haley. Atleast against the Giants anyways. It did bug the crap out of me the last couple of years always relying on D. But last night it was completely understandable. Lefty needs too much time to throw and has no mobility, a bad combination. The Chiefs couldn't do much all game offensively and they went with the odds. I don't think it was 3 and out,they did get a 3rd down conversion to Sanders unless I am mixing up possesions. Lefty and Batch were great backups 3 or 4 years ago, but last night showed how much we need Ben and how much we need a young back up.

Steelers>NFL
11-13-2012, 01:17 PM
Think D sucks this year. Wait til next year.

cubanstogie
11-13-2012, 01:21 PM
I believe the defense is not the best defense in the league, but I do believe they have gotten better and certainly saved the Steelers' asses yesterday.

There is not enough pressure on the QB and the secondary is still suspect in my mind.

As we all know, the Steelers play to win Super Bowls, not to get into the playoffs and lose. That being said, they will need to beat the likes of Brady, Manning, Schaub, Rodgers, Brees, Ryan, etc to win the Big One. I just don't think the defense, as it looks now, can stop those QBs. Pitt has played one elite QB (P. Manning) and one near-elite QB in Eli Manning. The rest have been between dogshit and average - two of which beat us. The win against Eli is a bit over-hyped - Eli has been pathetic since week 2 and has clearly regressed.

It's not smoke & mirrors, but it's also not as dominant as it appears on paper. We'll find out a lot about this defense over the next three weeks. They will clearly need to be at the top of their game against the Ravens, especially with the no-huddle Flacco likes so much now.

Well said, I was thinking how much better Ike is playing as well as the whole secondary. Then I second guess myself and think its wishful thinking because we haven't played great QB's since week 1. Either way like Gruden was saying its the NFL and there is a fine line between good and bad teams. Next week will show us a lot.

Darkstorm05
11-13-2012, 01:25 PM
I put last night more on our run game than anything. You have to expect a dropoff in passing when Ben goes out, and the backs needed to step up. Instead, Redman coughed it up in our own end, and the D bailed him out in a big way. Then we needed Dwyer to manage a first down to seal the game, and he got wrecked 1 on 1 with 1 yard to go by a cornerback.

Suddenly we had to decide if we trusted our D to hold against a scoring drive, or if we could let our backs pick up 6 inches on 4th. Coach went with our D, with he hasn't had faith in for a LONG time. Everyone claiming Dwyer and Redman should be starters, hope you finally saw that it isn't so. They've stunk up more than half the games this year.

Take away the Redman fumble and the D held to 10 points. Lewis made a couple remarkable jumping defenses. Also notice that since Ike made a pick, he isn't getting beat on by QB's anymore. All this season they new he was a safe bet, so could just lob it up on him and worst case, it goes incomplete. That one INT changed the game, and now they have to actually consider protecting the ball out there.

defence
11-13-2012, 01:31 PM
the Chiefs had lots of success running to Ziggy Hoods side. I don't think he played well at all. I know the Crows will see this on tape also.....just saying

My thinking exactly!! As a whole our d has played better; but this guy Hood is getting run over on that side. Cincy did it on there first drive; KC did it all night long. I'm an old school believer that if you can't stop the run; you won't win much in the NFL!! Especially in the playoffs!! Hopefully we can get this straightened out; but i believe Hood is a bust; I hope I'm wrong!!

Fire Arians
11-13-2012, 01:43 PM
Think D sucks this year. Wait til next year.

they did step up in the last few games

teegre
11-13-2012, 02:07 PM
the Chiefs had lots of success running to Ziggy Hoods side. I don't think he played well at all. I know the Crows will see this on tape also.....just saying

True... BUT, then, in the secodn half, KC could no longer run that way... which gives me hope.

Curtain_of_Steel
11-13-2012, 04:47 PM
Dick definatley rose up lastnight, some new schemes etc. But its not that easy agsint a Ravens team.

Say what you want, Ike is a liability, and a bigger liability without Clark backing him up. Ike was beat a cuple times last night, more importantly when it counted on the FG drive. His speed is toast out there.

Dick needs to get serious pressure on flacco before the WR's bolt down field. Flacco needs to be on edge all game to rattle his cage to create the turnovers that we havent had all year.

tanda10506
11-13-2012, 04:56 PM
The defense beat RG3, Vick, then shut down Eli like he was a noob and Chuck Norris has already said this thread is nonsense...what more do you want. I agree it's nowhere near as good as 2008, and Hood seems to be the "weakest link", but they are still playing pretty well. Last years defense was not good at all IMO and was masked by stats, I don't see that being the case this year. We've played good teams with lots of talent and are just starting to "click".

Darkstorm05
11-13-2012, 05:01 PM
For all the guys hating on our D currently, they really are coming together. Yes, there will always be yardage gained against them. What exactly do you expect to happen? It's a teams job to look for and exploit a weakness to try and win.

If the Chiefs fail to run left, should they simply sit down and sob for the next 50 minutes? They go to where it's working. That spot will be different for different opponents. Despite it all, the D held to 10 points. yes, the D has had shit performances before. Yes, it looked like they might pack it in last night...but then they sucked it up and went to work. Come back and hate when we actually lose, though, or at least give up 21+ points.

Bayz101
11-13-2012, 05:09 PM
Dick definatley rose up lastnight, some new schemes etc. But its not that easy agsint a Ravens team.

Say what you want, Ike is a liability, and a bigger liability without Clark backing him up. Ike was beat a cuple times last night, more importantly when it counted on the FG drive. His speed is toast out there.

Dick needs to get serious pressure on flacco before the WR's bolt down field. Flacco needs to be on edge all game to rattle his cage to create the turnovers that we havent had all year.

:sofunny:

SteeleReign
11-13-2012, 05:39 PM
For all the guys hating on our D currently, they really are coming together. Yes, there will always be yardage gained against them. What exactly do you expect to happen? It's a teams job to look for and exploit a weakness to try and win.

If the Chiefs fail to run left, should they simply sit down and sob for the next 50 minutes? They go to where it's working. That spot will be different for different opponents. Despite it all, the D held to 10 points. yes, the D has had shit performances before. Yes, it looked like they might pack it in last night...but then they sucked it up and went to work. Come back and hate when we actually lose, though, or at least give up 21+ points.

Don't confuse those of us that believe the #1 ranking is a tad inflated with those that are "hating on our D." I agree that we are looking better, but the true test will be against the QBs that really stand in our way of title #7....not guys like RG3, Vick, Cassel, and Dalton.

Eli isn't Eli from last year, so in my mind that win doesn't tell me a lot. Games against Flacco will. If we make the playoffs, wins against Brady and/or Peyton will.

Fire Arians
11-13-2012, 05:54 PM
jamaal charles is no freakin joke, he can hang up 100 yds on many defenses. you can't always stop great players from getting their yards

Rotorhead
11-13-2012, 06:22 PM
Yeah, cause Flacco is "elite" . . .

Steelersfan87
11-13-2012, 06:28 PM
Those who are questioning the number one ranking need to remember that you're not comparing it to past Steelers defenses, but rather the defenses of other teams in 2012. Defense is going out of style. More points have been scored in the first 10 weeks than ever.

Terminator
11-13-2012, 06:52 PM
Although the stats say our defense is #1, I don't know how someone could say with a straight face that our defense as a whole is better than the Bears or the Texans right now.

lipps83
11-13-2012, 06:55 PM
I will not apologize.

I am happy with the win but I will not let that sway my opinion of the direction this defense has gone this year. I would be somewhat impressed if this defense played that way last night against a below average offense, but it did not. It did it against the worst offense in the league.

It did it against an offense that would struggle to score points in the arena football league. It did it against an offense that turned the ball over more than 4x a game before last night, and the only turnover the defense could force came in over time. The game never even should have made it to overtime, but our 4th quarter defense showed up late in the game again.

You guys might think the defense showed up and played lights out, and that's okay. I think they did exactly what an average to below average defense would do against the worst offense in the league on a rainy night that receivers struggled to catch the ball.

Bayz101
11-13-2012, 07:30 PM
I will not apologize.

I am happy with the win but I will not let that sway my opinion of the direction this defense has gone this year. I would be somewhat impressed if this defense played that way last night against a below average offense, but it did not. It did it against the worst offense in the league.

It did it against an offense that would struggle to score points in the arena football league. It did it against an offense that turned the ball over more than 4x a game before last night, and the only turnover the defense could force came in over time. The game never even should have made it to overtime, but our 4th quarter defense showed up late in the game again.

You guys might think the defense showed up and played lights out, and that's okay. I think they did exactly what an average to below average defense would do against the worst offense in the league on a rainy night that receivers struggled to catch the ball.

Huh? The offense put up SIXTEEN points and you're bitching at the defense? The offense deserves more shit than the defense! Surely. The only reason i'm NOT bitching about it is because Ben went out early in the second half. The DEFENSE took over from that point and put the game away. They made BIG PLAYS when they NEEDED to, and if you can't you see that, there's no point in me even trying to argue.

I made the mistake of believing for a second that this game would be a blowout, overlooking past history: The Steelers, even under Cowher, played down to the level of lesser opponents. This includes the defense. ESPECIALLY the defense. Any given Sunday. You see the worst team in the NFL and the Steelers see a threat in the way of a Super Bowl championship run. The defense flat out won the game last night in relief of Ben Roethlisberger, and they'll probably need to do the same thing next week.

No one is asking you to apologize, but when the DEFENSE makes a game-winning play, credit is due. The offense didn't win the game, the defense DID.

lipps83
11-13-2012, 07:59 PM
Huh? The offense put up SIXTEEN points and you're bitching at the defense? The offense deserves more shit than the defense! Surely. The only reason i'm NOT bitching about it is because Ben went out early in the second half. The DEFENSE took over from that point and put the game away. They made BIG PLAYS when they NEEDED to, and if you can't you see that, there's no point in me even trying to argue.

I made the mistake of believing for a second that this game would be a blowout, overlooking past history: The Steelers, even under Cowher, played down to the level of lesser opponents. This includes the defense. ESPECIALLY the defense. Any given Sunday. You see the worst team in the NFL and the Steelers see a threat in the way of a Super Bowl championship run. The defense flat out won the game last night in relief of Ben Roethlisberger, and they'll probably need to do the same thing next week.

No one is asking you to apologize, but when the DEFENSE makes a game-winning play, credit is due. The offense didn't win the game, the defense DID.

I never said the defense isn't the reason they won the game, they clearly are and they did play great at times in the game, especially after Ben went down. That is my point, it shouldn't take your QB to go down to change the way you play defense and make you more aggressive.

I also am not going to overlook the reason why Timmons was there to make the pick in overtime to seal the game.

It is because of yet another, 4th quarter collapse where Steve Young and the 49'ers, I mean, Matt Cassell and the Chiefs drove down the field to tie the game at the end of regulation.

steeltheone
11-13-2012, 08:07 PM
Don't confuse those of us that believe the #1 ranking is a tad inflated with those that are "hating on our D." I agree that we are looking better, but the true test will be against the QBs that really stand in our way of title #7....not guys like RG3, Vick, Cassel, and Dalton.

Eli isn't Eli from last year, so in my mind that win doesn't tell me a lot. Games against Flacco will. If we make the playoffs, wins against Brady and/or Peyton will.

Eli is top notch, we beat one of the best. He is as much " money " as Peyton or Brady.

tony hipchest
11-13-2012, 08:15 PM
its a shame the nfl wont schedule the steelers to play manning, brady, brees, and rodgers 2X/year so the steelers could try to justify their annual ranking of the #1 defense, to the hypercritical fans.

the league should also change how it ranks the #1 offenses and defenses, because the hypercritical fans just cant buy into the steelers #1 ranking. :rolleyes:

it is what it is (and has been) and the league isnt changing it for nobody

also i dont buy into all the garbage rhetoric that we have only faced 1 good (or "great" :blah:) qb this season.

at one point, palmer, hasselbeck and vick were all considered some of the top qb's in the game, and believe it or not, they are still allowed to play decent no matter what defense they face.

everybody wants to poo-poo on RGIII and eli, but RG led the league in comp % until he faced us and eli was the leagues passing yardage leader being talked about as a HOF shoo-in until he faced us.

matt cassell was amongst the league leaders and in the league MVP discussion just 3 years ago.

sure these guys may not be currently "great" but they arent the slapdick scrubs everyone is making them out to be. put any of them on a good team, and things would turn around.

make no mistake, the cheifs arent as horrible as their record would suggest. they do got some pretty damn good players. they just dont have a HC.

mark sanchez is about the only bad-horrible qb we have faced this year. all the others are capable of leading teams to wins on any given sunday, even if their careers are winding down (or just beginning).

jiminpa
11-13-2012, 08:30 PM
its a shame the nfl wont schedule the steelers to play manning, brady, brees, and rodgers 2X/year so the steelers could try to justify their annual ranking of the #1 defense, to the hypercritical fans.

the league should also change how it ranks the #1 offenses and defenses, because the hypercritical fans just cant buy into the steelers #1 ranking. :rolleyes:

it is what it is (and has been) and the league isnt changing it for nobody

also i dont buy into all the garbage rhetoric that we have only faced 1 good (or "great" :blah:) qb this season.

at one point, palmer, hasselbeck and vick were all considered some of the top qb's in the game, and believe it or not, they are still allowed to play decent no matter what defense they face.

everybody wants to poo-poo on RGIII and eli, but RG led the league in comp % until he faced us and eli was the leagues passing yardage leader being talked about as a HOF shoo-in until he faced us.

matt cassell was amongst the league leaders and in the league MVP discussion just 3 years ago.

sure these guys may not be currently "great" but they arent the slapdick scrubs everyone is making them out to be. put any of them on a good team, and things would turn around.

make no mistake, the cheifs arent as horrible as their record would suggest. they do got some pretty damn good players. they just dont have a HC.

mark sanchez is about the only bad-horrible qb we have faced this year. all the others are capable of leading teams to wins on any given sunday, even if their careers are winding down (or just beginning).Even on the rare occasions when I don't agree with you you make sense, and this is one of the majority times that I agree. This defense has turned some good offense's seasons from rising to falling. That says something.

Darkstorm05
11-13-2012, 08:31 PM
its a shame the nfl wont schedule the steelers to play manning, brady, brees, and rodgers 2X/year so the steelers could try to justify their annual ranking of the #1 defense, to the hypercritical fans.

the league should also change how it ranks the #1 offenses and defenses, because the hypercritical fans just cant buy into the steelers #1 ranking. :rolleyes:

it is what it is (and has been) and the league isnt changing it for nobody

also i dont buy into all the garbage rhetoric that we have only faced 1 good (or "great" :blah:) qb this season.

at one point, palmer, hasselbeck and vick were all considered some of the top qb's in the game, and believe it or not, they are still allowed to play decent no matter what defense they face.

everybody wants to poo-poo on RGIII and eli, but RG led the league in comp % until he faced us and eli was the leagues passing yardage leader being talked about as a HOF shoo-in until he faced us.

matt cassell was amongst the league leaders and in the league MVP discussion just 3 years ago.

sure these guys may not be currently "great" but they arent the slapdick scrubs everyone is making them out to be. put any of them on a good team, and things would turn around.

make no mistake, the cheifs arent as horrible as their record would suggest. they do got some pretty damn good players. they just dont have a HC.

mark sanchez is about the only bad-horrible qb we have faced this year. all the others are capable of leading teams to wins on any given sunday, even if their careers are winding down (or just beginning).

RGIII could be a star if he wasn't on a crap team. He's the real deal so far, but his receiving corps failed him. A large part of that was because of the hits Clark and others were laying in on them. Does anyone really think it was a coincidence the skins suddenly dropped half their catches after seeing a team mate get hit hard enough to make an average man shit his jock? Our D turned physical and the Skins flinched.

Steelersfan87
11-13-2012, 09:08 PM
So did the Giants receivers. And so did the Chiefs receivers. If receivers are afraid to go over the middle, they're not going to be as focused on catching the pass, and they're more likely to drop passes. And they have.

tony hipchest
11-13-2012, 09:16 PM
So did the Giants receivers. And so did the Chiefs receivers. If receivers are afraid to go over the middle, they're not going to be as focused on catching the pass, and they're more likely to drop passes. And they have.see... i dont get it.

steelerfans love having that smashmouth, blitzburgh, steel curtain defense that instills fear in opponents and imposes its will with bone crushing hits, yet some fans still try to diminish that factor when it actually impacts the opponents.

i guess because it is an unmeasureable intangible that doesnt show up in the defensive statlines.

only as unofficial "dropped passes" for the offense. kinda like how "pass pressures" really only show up as an incompletion on the incompetent qb's stat line. :rolleyes:

Darkstorm05
11-13-2012, 10:06 PM
see... i dont get it.

steelerfans love having that smashmouth, blitzburgh, steel curtain defense that instills fear in opponents and imposes its will with bone crushing hits, yet some fans still try to diminish that factor when it actually impacts the opponents.

i guess because it is an unmeasureable intangible that doesnt show up in the defensive statlines.

only as unofficial "dropped passes" for the offense. kinda like how "pass pressures" really only show up as an incompletion on the incompetent qb's stat line. :rolleyes:

There have been games this year(Mostly before the bye) when the D shit itself, but even the biggest haters have got to admit they scared the Redskins and Giants to death. The skins stopped making any pretense of trying to reach for a pass at all. After Victor Cruz woke up on the turf in the endzone he probably thought he'd been hit by a mountain ram someone had let loose on the field. NOBODY wanted any of that after he got blown up, and Eli's pass game was shut down.

TheVet
11-13-2012, 10:52 PM
Come on guys, don't be so tough! For the season, KC is averaging a full 16.2 points per game - We held them to a full 3 points below their average!!!

Fire Arians
11-13-2012, 11:17 PM
Come on guys, don't be so tough! For the season, KC is averaging a full 16.2 points per game - We held them to a full 3 points below their average!!!

they made a play that won the game, that's how you be great.

like the saying goes, great doesn't always mean being great, just great when you have to be. and against the chiefs, that's what they were. game on the line, the D made a play when it was needed most

TheVet
11-13-2012, 11:23 PM
Oh, I definitely agree. On a night where we had no O (only half the average points allowed by KC), the D stepped up and held them to roughly 20% less production than average. And Timmons delivered at the perfect time.

teegre
11-13-2012, 11:41 PM
Come on guys, don't be so tough! For the season, KC is averaging a full 16.2 points per game - We held them to a full 3 points below their average!!!

Technically, the D only gave up 10 points; 3 points came off of a turnover in FG range.

steeltheone
11-14-2012, 12:16 AM
Oh, I definitely agree. On a night where we had no O (only half the average points allowed by KC), the D stepped up and held them to roughly 20% less production than average. And Timmons delivered at the perfect time.So are you saying our D is better than it has Been for years?

Bayz101
11-14-2012, 01:07 AM
This shit is still going on? You do realize that the Ravens beat these jumps by a whopping score of...wait for it...wait for it.................wait.................for....... ..........it.....................












9-6.

tony hipchest
11-14-2012, 01:15 AM
So are you saying our D is better than it has Been for years?i think what some people are saying is that our team's defense is more than just "smoke and mirrors".

of course, those saying that have a great organization that has fielded great teams, with great coaches, with a solid roster, PLUS a ton of history, on their side.

that is all. :smile:

:tt04:

Rick5895
11-14-2012, 04:56 AM
You do all realize that cassel was less than fifty percent throwing the ball for only 154 yards and that the Chiefs have the #3 rush offense in the league, even when teams know they cant pass. They ran foer well over 200 against the ratbirds.
Some people on here will look for any reason to bash our D and Lebeau, sheesh!

Millers the sh!t
11-14-2012, 06:27 AM
It absolutely helps, but so doesn't a lot of three and outs......

Lebeau Absolutely does adjust. Don't you notice that the defense gets better as the games go along. Esp. After the halftime ADJUSTMENTS.... Only thing our defense is lacking is turnovers and sacks. We are getting more pressure as the season progresses. We need a tad bit better reaction time or hand skills on defense cause we do drop about 2-3 interceptions per game. That is what's separating us from the being one of best and the worst in the turnover department. Just my opinion....

You must admit the defense is getting better as the season progresses...... No?

Millers the sh!t
11-14-2012, 06:47 AM
So did the Giants receivers. And so did the Chiefs receivers. If receivers are afraid to go over the middle, they're not going to be as focused on catching the pass, and they're more likely to drop passes. And they have.

The biggest fear factor turn around game was the jets. After Sanchez got smashed he immediately went from having a decent game to being Mark Sanchez. I think it was Holmes too, that after getting derailed by Mundy, he started dropping balls like Mike Wallace. Clark had a few games this season in which he scared receivers into thinking twice creating dropped balls. It's worth the fifteen yard penalty..... Smash a receiver and ruin his mind state and confidence..... It's almost like having Revis out there after smashes like that, cause they don't produce shit afterwards. Clark is a shutdown safety...... Ha ha ha ha I love it and so don't you all.

I am a bit worried that Clark will get injured real bad though the way he uses his head and neck to tackle. He's been one of my favorite defensive players for a few years now, I think he has a tv career after he retires from the NFL, I just hope he don't have to retire before his production level decreases because of injuries.

Millers the sh!t
11-14-2012, 06:57 AM
I will not apologize.

I am happy with the win but I will not let that sway my opinion of the direction this defense has gone this year. I would be somewhat impressed if this defense played that way last night against a below average offense, but it did not. It did it against the worst offense in the league.

It did it against an offense that would struggle to score points in the arena football league. It did it against an offense that turned the ball over more than 4x a game before last night, and the only turnover the defense could force came in over time. The game never even should have made it to overtime, but our 4th quarter defense showed up late in the game again.

You guys might think the defense showed up and played lights out, and that's okay. I think they did exactly what an average to below average defense would do against the worst offense in the league on a rainy night that receivers struggled to catch the ball.


:drink:
Ur right we only got one turnover in the game. But you must remember that Cassell had a

Huge leash on him. The guy barely threw ten passes until the final drive in regulation. When he did finally start passing he fucked up and we intercepted it...... Plus we dropped two picks earlier in the night. Imagine if he were passing all night.....

steelfury02
11-14-2012, 10:02 AM
Millers the "shite" - I really enjoy your enthusiasm - as many know - I come on here to piss and moan, ride the wave of being a Steelers fan, but ultimately - am very passionate. I think this team has the makings of a SB caliber team the more I see them play from week to week.

Thank you to everyone pointing out the Ravens victory over the Chiefs - that is a reminder about "any given Sunday" and that this is the NFL. Let's give the D some credit - it took a lot of character for this team to pull out that OT victory, even after not getting first possession

As Woodley said on his FB page "A win is a win." and Tomlin: "We won't apologize for it."

Good teams win the games they should. Great teams develop through adversity. If we come out the other side with at least 1 Ravens victory without Ben - it is going to get really interesting for Steeler Nation:tt:

SteeleReign
11-14-2012, 03:28 PM
Eli is top notch, we beat one of the best. He is as much " money " as Peyton or Brady.

Sorry...you're wrong. Eli has been pedestrian at best this year.

SteeleReign
11-14-2012, 03:35 PM
its a shame the nfl wont schedule the steelers to play manning, brady, brees, and rodgers 2X/year so the steelers could try to justify their annual ranking of the #1 defense, to the hypercritical fans.

the league should also change how it ranks the #1 offenses and defenses, because the hypercritical fans just cant buy into the steelers #1 ranking. :rolleyes:

it is what it is (and has been) and the league isnt changing it for nobody

also i dont buy into all the garbage rhetoric that we have only faced 1 good (or "great" :blah:) qb this season.

at one point, palmer, hasselbeck and vick were all considered some of the top qb's in the game, and believe it or not, they are still allowed to play decent no matter what defense they face.

everybody wants to poo-poo on RGIII and eli, but RG led the league in comp % until he faced us and eli was the leagues passing yardage leader being talked about as a HOF shoo-in until he faced us.

matt cassell was amongst the league leaders and in the league MVP discussion just 3 years ago.

sure these guys may not be currently "great" but they arent the slapdick scrubs everyone is making them out to be. put any of them on a good team, and things would turn around.

make no mistake, the cheifs arent as horrible as their record would suggest. they do got some pretty damn good players. they just dont have a HC.

mark sanchez is about the only bad-horrible qb we have faced this year. all the others are capable of leading teams to wins on any given sunday, even if their careers are winding down (or just beginning).

Relax man...you're taking this too personally. I'm not being "hypercritical" at all - just looking at the defense with some reservation. They have played well, but for the most part is the same defense as last year with a few changes - Farrior, Polamalu, etc. Last year's defense was not as good as it's defensive ranking, largely due to a soft QB schedule. To this point, I see no major improvements over last year, except for the improved play from Timmons & Lewis.

So, that being said, I'll let the upcoming games prove or disprove the #1 ranking they currently hold. Trust me, I hope they prove to be #1 all the way through the Super Bowl!! :tt03:

SteeleReign
11-14-2012, 03:37 PM
It absolutely helps, but so doesn't a lot of three and outs......

Lebeau Absolutely does adjust. Don't you notice that the defense gets better as the games go along. Esp. After the halftime ADJUSTMENTS.... Only thing our defense is lacking is turnovers and sacks. We are getting more pressure as the season progresses. We need a tad bit better reaction time or hand skills on defense cause we do drop about 2-3 interceptions per game. That is what's separating us from the being one of best and the worst in the turnover department. Just my opinion....

You must admit the defense is getting better as the season progresses...... No?

Getting better for sure!!

#1 D in the league? Not sure....yet.

SteeleReign
11-14-2012, 03:39 PM
Yeah, cause Flacco is "elite" . . .

I don't consider Flacco elite, but he certainly is a lot better than Cassel, Sanchez, and Vick are right now.

SteeleReign
11-14-2012, 03:44 PM
Although the stats say our defense is #1, I don't know how someone could say with a straight face that our defense as a whole is better than the Bears or the Texans right now.

Don't think you can. Truthfully, I don't know why some on here get their panties in a wad if you question the legitimacy of our #1 defensive ranking.

Honestly, I don't care if they are 1st or 15th. If they are helping us to win ballgames, which they clearly are, who cares where ESPN or anyone else ranks them.

My only concern is whether or not they are ready to win playoff football against Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, Brees. So, I think the quality of our Defense is measured in those terms. Not whether or not we can beat Matt Cassel and Mark Sanchez.

After all, we only care about winning Championships. :tt03:

steeltheone
11-14-2012, 04:53 PM
Sorry...you're wrong. Eli has been pedestrian at best this year.

Till the playoffs

Kanata-Steeler
11-14-2012, 06:15 PM
Don't think you can. Truthfully, I don't know why some on here get their panties in a wad if you question the legitimacy of our #1 defensive ranking.

Honestly, I don't care if they are 1st or 15th. If they are helping us to win ballgames, which they clearly are, who cares where ESPN or anyone else ranks them.

My only concern is whether or not they are ready to win playoff football against Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, Brees. So, I think the quality of our Defense is measured in those terms. Not whether or not we can beat Matt Cassel and Mark Sanchez.

After all, we only care about winning Championships. :tt03:

I don't question the fact that our "D" is not quite AS "KILLER" as it used to be, (aka, for the last 7 years or so).
But what I do question is why hasn't our "O" atleast came close to matching THOSE kindof standards (stats-wise) as well, for the last several years.\
Needless to say, I want nothing better than our "O" to really shine as in atleast a #3 in the NFL soon ?, 'cause we are dam well gonna need it ! -if we want the ultimate "prize" again.
It's high time the "O" starts carrying some really HEAVY weight around here, and not just a bunch of band-wagon I-LUV-BEN heresays.

We all know this crap now, and there is little time to squabble.
.... no wonder even The Chief(aka Rooney) finally wants a RUNNING-SMASH-MOUTH offensive game too, Sitting bear ?!

ya know/get ?
cool.
:tt:

SteeleReign
11-14-2012, 10:53 PM
Till the playoffs

Hard to argue with that.

tony hipchest
11-14-2012, 11:36 PM
Relax man...you're taking this too personally. I'm not being "hypercritical" at all - just looking at the defense with some reservation. :since you automatically think i was addressing you, i guess it would be you taking things too personally, no?

relax... :chuckle:

SteeleReign
11-15-2012, 07:30 AM
since you automatically think i was addressing you, i guess it would be you taking things too personally, no?

relax... :chuckle:

Touche. :thumbsup:

ricardisimo
11-15-2012, 03:34 PM
Sorry...you're wrong. Eli has been pedestrian at best this year.
I think he's a dick, but even after his past two awful weeks he's still in the top 5-8 in most of the meaningful categories.

Every year there's all of these other teams that Steelers fans feel is the real #1 D in the league. Last year it was San Fran, for all of the good it did them. It's just inconceivable that it's actually us, even when it IS us year after year after year. For reasons that have yet to be fully explained, Roger Goodell and the NFL regularly conspire against the Steelers in every way imaginable EXCEPT tabulating our defensive statistics. Weird, huh?

jtbsteeler
11-19-2012, 07:29 PM
Bump. This defense is for real. This thread should be destroyed asap. that is all...

ricardisimo
11-20-2012, 12:26 AM
Indeed. They gave up 200 net yards to an ultra-elite Ravens offense, and 6 points (three after a Leftwich INT). However, I'm leaving this thread active so it can act as a painful reminder to all of us ever hypercritical, impatient and ungrateful Steeler fans.

Friends don't let friends drink and post.

GoFor7
11-20-2012, 12:43 AM
Indeed. They gave up 200 net yards to an ultra-elite Ravens offense, and 6 points (three after a Leftwich INT). However, I'm leaving this thread active so it can act as a painful reminder to all of us ever hypercritical, impatient and ungrateful Steeler fans.

Friends don't let friends drink and post.

Whoa there cowboy. Slow down. It's a well-known fact the Ravens offense is completely different on the road rather than when they're at home.

That being said, the defense kept the Steelers in the game all night. Unfortunately, the defense seems unable to create turnovers. I know you all hate hearing it, but this defense needs to start giving the offense a shorter field.

tony hipchest
11-20-2012, 12:52 AM
Indeed. They gave up 200 net yards to an ultra-elite Ravens offense, and 6 points (three after a Leftwich INT). However, I'm leaving this thread active so it can act as a painful reminder to all of us ever hypercritical, impatient and ungrateful Steeler fans.

.yep... we completely shut down a top 10 offense but the same bitchy steelerfans will still make up some weak assed excuse for that, rather than eat crow.

looks like RGIII is back to throwing for 300 yds and 4 tds, but that was against the eagles lame 7th round draft pic, vet minimum, cb's.

the same bitchy steelerfans probably think asomugha is an elite shut down cb in oakland who we should sign as the replacemnt for sucky ike taylor (who like 95% of ALL OTHER cb's in the league gets a little safety help in shutting down the opponents best wr.)

tanda10506
11-20-2012, 01:16 AM
The Giants game and this Ravens game reminded me of '08....that's saying a lot. Even with Leftwich we should have won that game and I'm not convinced we won't win the next 3 with Batch. When a top offense can only score 6 points on you, you'll win with almost any QB.

SteelersCanada
11-20-2012, 01:46 AM
Troy who?

Kidding - for the most part.

ggoldman
11-20-2012, 02:20 AM
Just think, when Troy comes back, this D will get even better and the turnovers will come

SteeleReign
11-20-2012, 09:13 AM
I've been in the camp that the #1 ranking may be a tad high. However, what I'm seeing now is changing my mind. A win against Brady &/or Manning is all that is left to prove.

lipps83
11-20-2012, 09:41 AM
While the defense played excellent on Sunday I still stand by my statement that the defense maintained a #1 ranking in yardage for the most part due to the TOP of the offense. We were playing ball control through the air. They seem to be turning it around on defense but it is going to take a game against a top QB to convince me they are even close to being an elite defense.

They are #1 only in total defense and passing defense. They are in the bottom half of the league in sacks, and next to dead last in turnovers. They are sacrificing putting pressure on the QB to make mistakes to drop more into coverage and stop the pass.

steeltheone
11-20-2012, 12:28 PM
I agree that the Defense is playing good ball. Probably overachieving. All you have to do is look at the players position by position to know this is far from being one of our " better " lineups.

I am super happy with the way the guys are playing, Lebeau needs to be given lots of credit with what he is doing with this caliber of players!

ricardisimo
11-22-2012, 09:05 PM
Did anyone watch the first few Thanksgiving Day games? Our pass D is only number one because we haven't had to play any elite QBs like GRIII.

Oh, wait...

Twentyvalve
11-22-2012, 09:15 PM
I don't like the that time of possession argument. The opposing team gets the ball back right after a score. They can do with it what they will. If they go 3 and out, guess what, our D has stopped them. The other team gets the ball just as many times as our team. Our D stops them. Hence, our ranking.

The argument that we hold the ball more during the game just says the offense is just as good as the D that stops them on the next possession.


While the defense played excellent on Sunday I still stand by my statement that the defense maintained a #1 ranking in yardage for the most part due to the TOP of the offense. We were playing ball control through the air. They seem to be turning it around on defense but it is going to take a game against a top QB to convince me they are even close to being an elite defense.

They are #1 only in total defense and passing defense. They are in the bottom half of the league in sacks, and next to dead last in turnovers. They are sacrificing putting pressure on the QB to make mistakes to drop more into coverage and stop the pass.

ricardisimo
11-22-2012, 10:14 PM
I don't like the that time of possession argument. The opposing team gets the ball back right after a score. They can do with it what they will. If they go 3 and out, guess what, our D has stopped them. The other team gets the ball just as many times as our team. Our D stops them. Hence, our ranking.

The argument that we hold the ball more during the game just says the offense is just as good as the D that stops them on the next possession.
True. There are two sides to TOP. The Texans have the #1 TOP - and by a large margin - but they're not #1. The Chargers are 3rd in time of possession, and their defense sucks. The Broncos, alternately, suck in TOP, but their defense is quite good.

But none of them are the #1 defense. That distinction belongs to the Steelers, and Steeler fans who cannot help but qualifying this ranking or making excuses for it need to just enjoy the ride a little bit more.

lipps83
11-22-2012, 10:43 PM
I don't like the that time of possession argument. The opposing team gets the ball back right after a score. They can do with it what they will. If they go 3 and out, guess what, our D has stopped them. The other team gets the ball just as many times as our team. Our D stops them. Hence, our ranking.

The argument that we hold the ball more during the game just says the offense is just as good as the D that stops them on the next possession.

It has everything to do with the ranking.

Our offense, which is absolutely efficient (when Ben plays) and money when we need them to be, is only ranked 17th in the league in total yardage.

That is below league average, thus by probably about 80% of the people on this board,

OUR OFFENSE IS BELOW AVERAGE.

Go ahead and tell me how great they are, when they are ranked BELOW AVERAGE.

They can't be great, they are below average. How can you be great when you are below average?

Check out these offensive power houses that are ranked higher than the Steelers in total yardage, and thus by your standards better because statistically they rank higher.

Buffalo Bills
Cincinnati Bengals
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Oakland Raiders

PhantomJB93
11-22-2012, 10:43 PM
I think by this point the defense has proven itself. The only problem is the lack of pressure but we are much better in coverage than we used to be so that makes up for it. Even then the pressure has been coming more in recent weeks.

lipps83
11-22-2012, 10:45 PM
True. There are two sides to TOP. The Texans have the #1 TOP - and by a large margin - but they're not #1. The Chargers are 3rd in time of possession, and their defense sucks. The Broncos, alternately, suck in TOP, but their defense is quite good.

But none of them are the #1 defense. That distinction belongs to the Steelers, and Steeler fans who cannot help but qualifying this ranking or making excuses for it need to just enjoy the ride a little bit more.

Chargers have the statistically ranked 8th overall defense in the league...

They must be better than you are giving them credit for, they are definitely top 10 so they cannot suck.....

According to you.....

steeltheone
11-22-2012, 10:49 PM
They will need to prove themselves in Jan on the road against Brady , Shaub or Manning

GoFor7
11-22-2012, 11:19 PM
I think by this point the defense has proven itself. The only problem is the lack of pressure but we are much better in coverage than we used to be so that makes up for it. Even then the pressure has been coming more in recent weeks.

Aren't you forgetting the lack of turnovers?

Keep in mind offenses that don't get many short fields probably aren't going to score as many points as they should.

zcoop
11-22-2012, 11:20 PM
Our D is pretty damn good. With the TOP, TDs have to be gotten instead of 3s and that has been the difference in Ws vs Ls this season.

D is stout.

ricardisimo
11-22-2012, 11:51 PM
Chargers have the statistically ranked 8th overall defense in the league...

They must be better than you are giving them credit for, they are definitely top 10 so they cannot suck.....

According to you.....
And they are something like 13th in points allowed. If you prefer, we can look at the Colts instead, who are 5th in TOP. Let's hear your take on their defense.

The Baltimore Ravens are dead last in TOP. Look at their defense and tell me how this equates.

GoFor7
11-23-2012, 12:05 AM
And they are something like 13th in points allowed. If you prefer, we can look at the Colts instead, who are 5th in TOP. Let's hear your take on their defense.

The Baltimore Ravens are dead last in TOP. Look at their defense and tell me how this equates.

In conclusion, stats aren't everything. Personally, I like the eye-test.

ricardisimo
11-23-2012, 12:08 AM
I'll repeat what's becoming my mantra on this forum: Stats aren't everything, and they can be deceiving... but not at the end of the season, and certainly not after eight seasons. When Dick Lebeau has consistently fielded top-3 defenses for almost a decade and people still question his unit's statistical ranking, then it's just some perverse masochism on the part of Steeler fans.

GoFor7
11-23-2012, 12:20 AM
I'll repeat what's becoming my mantra on this forum: Stats aren't everything, and they can be deceiving... but not at the end of the season, and certainly not after eight seasons. When Dick Lebeau has consistently fielded top-3 defenses for almost a decade and people still question his unit's statistical ranking, then it's just some perverse masochism on the part of Steeler fans.

Well, after a loss at Denver in the Wild Card round last year against the supposed number 1 ranked defense, more fans are likely to question a #1 ranking the next time around. And while I'm repeating what I guess is my mantra about the lack of turnovers produced, there may be some fear that this defense could be like last year's all over again.

ricardisimo
11-23-2012, 12:22 AM
If anything, the offense has been under-performing, as was the case last week. But it doesn't matter, because after losses Steeler fans start questioning Lebeau, his age, his unit's ranking, the lack of this or that...

GoFor7
11-23-2012, 12:38 AM
If anything, the offense has been under-performing, as was the case last week. But it doesn't matter, because after losses Steeler fans start questioning Lebeau, his age, his unit's ranking, the lack of this or that...

When a defense (or special teams) hardly gives it's offense a short field (especially on a night when it really needed it), that offense probably won't rank as highly in scoring. This is why I keep bringing up the lack of turnovers. Many of you seem to tip-toe around that particular issue.

If the offense has to march 80 yards down the field all the time, do you expect them to be higher in scoring than 17th?

ricardisimo
11-23-2012, 12:47 AM
When a defense (or special teams) hardly gives it's offense a short field (especially on a night when it really needed it), that offense probably won't rank as highly in scoring. This is why I keep bringing up the lack of turnovers. Many of you seem to tip-toe around that particular issue.

If the offense has to march 80 yards down the field all the time, do you expect them to be higher in scoring than 17th?
An offense with Ben Roethlisberger, Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, Heath Miller, Maurkice Pouncey, Rashard Mendenhall and other studs should do better than 17th in scoring, yes. Absolutely. That's not controversial, it's fact.

Rick5895
11-23-2012, 07:25 AM
What does this defense have to do?? Yes there is a lack of turnovers by the D. But where the hell is our return game? Same ol same ol on here, lose a game blame the D. IN todays NFL if the offense can't muster more than 13 stinking points at home even with Byron at QB then the loss is squarely on the O. With a helping from the ST.

harrison'samonster
11-23-2012, 08:25 AM
When a defense (or special teams) hardly gives it's offense a short field (especially on a night when it really needed it), that offense probably won't rank as highly in scoring. This is why I keep bringing up the lack of turnovers. Many of you seem to tip-toe around that particular issue.

If the offense has to march 80 yards down the field all the time, do you expect them to be higher in scoring than 17th?

I partly agree with what your saying about turnovers. But I think it's more important to win the turnover ratio and get good field position than to worry about getting lots of turnovers. In this case I'd blame the offense more than the D.

Due to turnovers (giving and taking) or bad special teams this team has trouble winning the field position battle (again, I'd blame the offense more than the D). In this day of big yard, big pass football, I don't think the Defense can be asked to consistently give the offense a short field.

teegre
11-23-2012, 10:48 AM
When a defense (or special teams) hardly gives it's offense a short field (especially on a night when it really needed it), that offense probably won't rank as highly in scoring. This is why I keep bringing up the lack of turnovers. Many of you seem to tip-toe around that particular issue.

If the offense has to march 80 yards down the field all the time, do you expect them to be higher in scoring than 17th?

The defense gave up 3 points!!!

And you're blaming the defense!?! Come on, man.

[Note: 7 points came from ST. 3 points came of a Wallace fumble in the red-zone.]

steeltheone
11-23-2012, 10:55 AM
If you really look at the personnel on this Defense one by one, it is not that great ( injuries hurt ) Lebeau should be Defensive Coach of the year!

teegre
11-23-2012, 10:57 AM
If you really look at the personnel on this Defense one by one, it is not that great ( injuries hurt ) Lebeau should be Defensive Coach of the year!

I agree. He has no playmakers... it is just rock-solid "team" defense.

jtbsteeler
11-23-2012, 12:13 PM
I expect this defense to hit another gear in the next three weeks.

GoFor7
11-23-2012, 12:28 PM
The defense gave up 3 points!!!

And you're blaming the defense!?! Come on, man.

[Note: 7 points came from ST. 3 points came of a Wallace fumble in the red-zone.]

This is a typical knee-jerk reaction from Steeler fans whenever something critical is said of the defense. :coffee:

Did the defense lose the game? Absolutely not. In fact, they held strong when they were put in a bad position early in the game. But in order to beat Baltimore without Ben, splash plays were needed. Do you really think Byron Leftwich was going to lead the offense on 80-90 yard scoring drives all night? Do you think Charlie Batch will do that against Cleveland? Now, the same could be said of special teams in the return game. Ever since the Giants game the return unit has gone downhill and Tomlin has looked rather silly for firing Everest.

An offense with Ben Roethlisberger, Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, Heath Miller, Maurkice Pouncey, Rashard Mendenhall and other studs should do better than 17th in scoring, yes. Absolutely. That's not controversial, it's fact.

You know, all those points the Patriots have been scoring in the past few weeks aren't just on Tom Brady. They've been getting scores from their defense (which is statistically inferior to the Steelers' defense) and their special teams. The Steelers' defense needs to return to its old ways of making splash plays. And that is not controversial, it's fact.

Some competence on special teams would be nice too.

harrison'samonster
11-23-2012, 01:10 PM
This is a typical knee-jerk reaction from Steeler fans whenever something critical is said of the defense. :coffee:

Did the defense lose the game? Absolutely not. In fact, they held strong when they were put in a bad position early in the game. But in order to beat Baltimore without Ben, splash plays were needed. Do you really think Byron Leftwich was going to lead the offense on 80-90 yard scoring drives all night? Do you think Charlie Batch will do that against Cleveland? Now, the same could be said of special teams in the return game. Ever since the Giants game the return unit has gone downhill and Tomlin has looked rather silly for firing Everest.



You know, all those points the Patriots have been scoring in the past few weeks aren't just on Tom Brady. They've been getting scores from their defense (which is statistically inferior to the Steelers' defense) and their special teams. The Steelers' defense needs to return to its old ways of making splash plays. And that is not controversial, it's fact.

Some competence on special teams would be nice too.

I think I agree with a lot of what you are saying. This D has been getting better all year, and against the Ravens they were at there best so far.

I would like to see more big plays from the D as well. Think, just one turnover for a TD or putting us in the Redzone and we could have won that game. Remember Harrison jumping over LT against the Chargers after a pick, or returning the pick against the Cardinals, or all of Polamalu's big splash plays. That is something a D needs every once and a while, and we're not getting it.

However, special teams and the offense were just as much to blame for not coming up with a big play when it counted. Holmes was great at getting one or two big plays when needed (punt returns and in receiving). I know BB wasn't in there, but we still had play-makers in there.

When it's all said and done though, woulda coulda shouldas can go on and on, and I'm very hopeful about this team. They are starting to look great.

teegre
11-23-2012, 01:20 PM
This is a typical knee-jerk reaction from Steeler fans whenever something critical is said of the defense. :coffee:

Did the defense lose the game? Absolutely not. In fact, they held strong when they were put in a bad position early in the game. But in order to beat Baltimore without Ben, splash plays were needed. Do you really think Byron Leftwich was going to lead the offense on 80-90 yard scoring drives all night? Do you think Charlie Batch will do that against Cleveland? Now, the same could be said of special teams in the return game. Ever since the Giants game the return unit has gone downhill and Tomlin has looked rather silly for firing Everest.
.

Interesting.

My "knee-jerk" reaction is to someone complaining about a defense that gave up 3 points.

My "knee-jerk" reaction is to someone who won't be satisfied unless the defense pitches a shut-out... and even then some people would still complain: "The defense gave up zero points, but I expect better."

So, Yes, you can call my reaction "knee-jerk" because I find it utterly baffling that someone is blaming the defense for a loss against the Ravens.

I would have the same reaction if someone looked at Jessica Alba and stated, "I don't like the color of her lip gloss."

And, as far as the defense "making up for the loss of BB", how about the offense making up for the loss of Troy(& for an injured Harrison)? The defense did its job... even the color of its lip gloss was not to some people's liking.

GoFor7
11-23-2012, 01:24 PM
However, special teams and the offense were just as much to blame for not coming up with a big play when it counted. Holmes was great at getting one or two big plays when needed (punt returns and in receiving). I know BB wasn't in there, but we still had play-makers in there.

If fans want to see more from their offense, aside from the defense giving them shorter fields, the offense needs to strike quickly more often. The Steelers are of the mentality that the offense should babysit the defense by possessing the football. As we've seen before (and as some of us simply refuse to accept), time of possession means nothing if you aren't scoring. If you had to choose, would you rather have 3 points after 10 minutes or 7 points after 10 seconds? The Steelers offense should try to score more points faster and worry about possession in the 4th quarter.

As for special teams, it's just a complete joke. They overrun the kick returner on kick coverage and they can't block without getting a penalty in the return game.

GoFor7
11-23-2012, 01:26 PM
Interesting.

My "knee-jerk" reaction is to someone complaining about a defense that gave up 3 points.

My "knee-jerk" reaction is to someone who won't be satisfied unless the defense pitches a shut-out... and even then some people would still complain: "The defense gave up zero points, but I expect better."

So, Yes, you can call my reaction "knee-jerk" because I find it utterly baffling that someone is blaming the defense for a loss against the Ravens.

I would have the same reaction if someone looked at Jessica Alba and stated, "I don't like the color of her lip gloss."

And, as far as the defense "making up for the loss of BB", how about the offense making up for the loss of Troy(& for an injured Harrison)? The defense did its job... even the color of its lip gloss was not to some people's liking.

Wow..... you really don't get it.

harrison'samonster
11-23-2012, 01:33 PM
all though, being good at TOP to me means keeping your offense balanced and the opposing D off-balance. It also keeps defenses from getting aggressive and "teeing off" against our O-line and QB.

As far as these close games go, we need one of the 3 phases of the team to step up and make big plays (not just to keep us in a game, but to win the game at the end).

lipps83
11-23-2012, 02:46 PM
And they are something like 13th in points allowed. If you prefer, we can look at the Colts instead, who are 5th in TOP. Let's hear your take on their defense.

The Baltimore Ravens are dead last in TOP. Look at their defense and tell me how this equates.

That fits in perfectly with what I am saying. Stats don't and never will, tell the whole story.

In my opinion, the Steelers having the statistical #1 defense does not mean that they actually have the best defense in the NFL.

If you want to say they are the best because they are #1 in total yards, that is fine. You are allowed to do that.

Just as I am allowed to say that they are not the best defense because they cannot create turnovers at all and can barely put any pressure on the opposing QB. Not to mention all the 4th quarter leads we have lost this year because of this same stout defense.

teegre
11-23-2012, 03:15 PM
Wow..... you really don't get it.

Please, enlighten us Yinzers, because we do not get how giving up 3 points equals the defense sucking.

Seriously... explain.

Q: If the defense pitched a shut-out, would you STILL complain? I am seriously asking, because if your answer is "Yes" then I truly have no idea why you'd be complaining. (I barely understand why you'd scoff at the defense giving up only 3 points). So, again, explain to us Yinzers.

Danny136200
11-23-2012, 03:22 PM
They are sacrificing putting pressure on the QB to make mistakes to drop more into coverage and stop the pass.

And that is exactly what is needed to win in this league. Disciplined coverage at the back, nothing fancy. the defense has been doing there job since the first five weeks, not giving up points, getting off on third down, and such.

Danny136200
11-23-2012, 03:29 PM
That fits in perfectly with what I am saying. Stats don't and never will, tell the whole story.

In my opinion, the Steelers having the statistical #1 defense does not mean that they actually have the best defense in the NFL.

If you want to say they are the best because they are #1 in total yards, that is fine. You are allowed to do that.

Just as I am allowed to say that they are not the best defense because they cannot create turnovers at all and can barely put any pressure on the opposing QB. Not to mention all the 4th quarter leads we have lost this year because of this same stout defense.

Tell me, how have they done in the past five games in the 4th quarter?

GoFor7
11-23-2012, 03:53 PM
Please, enlighten us Yinzers, because we do not get how giving up 3 points equals the defense sucking.

Seriously... explain.

Q: If the defense pitched a shut-out, would you STILL complain? I am seriously asking, because if your answer is "Yes" then I truly have no idea why you'd be complaining. (I barely understand why you'd scoff at the defense giving up only 3 points). So, again, explain to us Yinzers.

harrison'samonster seemed to get it from his last post. I guess I make sense to at least one person. :noidea:

No one is saying the defense lost that game. They kept the Steelers in it all night. But for the past two seasons this defense has been unable to make splash plays and give the offense a short field. Against Baltimore with Ben out, the defense needed to make a splash play. Do you really expect Byron Leftwich to lead the offense down an 80+ yard field and score consistently? Do you expect Charlie Batch to do it against Cleveland? Being ranked high as far as yards and points is great and will give the Steelers a chance to win most of the time, but the Steelers aren't getting to the Super Bowl if the splash plays don't come more often.

Special teams also bears some blame in that regard as the return game is practically non-existent and the coverage is a joke.

teegre
11-23-2012, 04:25 PM
harrison'samonster seemed to get it from his last post. I guess I make sense to at least one person. :noidea:

No one is saying the defense lost that game. They kept the Steelers in it all night. But for the past two seasons this defense has been unable to make splash plays and give the offense a short field. Against Baltimore with Ben out, the defense needed to make a splash play. Do you really expect Byron Leftwich to lead the offense down an 80+ yard field and score consistently? Do you expect Charlie Batch to do it against Cleveland? Being ranked high as far as yards and points is great and will give the Steelers a chance to win most of the time, but the Steelers aren't getting to the Super Bowl if the splash plays don't come more often.

Special teams also bears some blame in that regard as the return game is practically non-existent and the coverage is a joke.

If you told the 32 head coaches that their defense would only give up 3 points, every coach would take that in a heartbeat.

Sure, it does not 100% guarantee a win:
--rain might even the playing field
--some weird special teams fiasco occurs
--the offense gets shut out (0-3)

The other 97 times out of 100, 3 points wins the game.

Football is simple: the team with the most points wins the game. And, 3 points is the second lowest total that a defense can give up (zero being the least amount).

You "say" that you do not blame the defense, but then you turn right around and say that the defense should have given the offense a short field. WHY? The defense gave them something even better: a deficit of only 3 points. Any offense should be able to score more than 3 points... even a broken-ribbed led offense. Furthermore, Byron did not have to "consistently" lead his offense on 80 yard drives; he needed two FGs. You act like he had to overcome a three touchdown deficit. Again, he had to surpass 3 points... and again, even a broken-ribbed QB should have been able to score 6 points.

Regardless, even if the defense had produced a short field, what then??? Because, I remember Mike Wallace not dragging his toe on a TD (a TD that would have given the Steelers the win). So, short field or not, the offense did not come through (i.e. did not capitalize on red-zone opportunities).

Furthermore, if given an "either or" option, as opposed to a shortened field, I say that the offense would actually prefer to only have to score more than 3 points. As in, if we asked the offense:

Would you rather your average starting point for a drive be at the 35 yard line?
OR
Would you rather the defense only allow 3 points (i.e. you only have to score 6 points)???

I think that all 32 offensive coordinators and/or head coaches would choose the latter.

ricardisimo
11-23-2012, 04:26 PM
harrison'samonster seemed to get it from his last post. I guess I make sense to at least one person. :noidea:

No one is saying the defense lost that game. They kept the Steelers in it all night. But for the past two seasons this defense has been unable to make splash plays and give the offense a short field. Against Baltimore with Ben out, the defense needed to make a splash play. Do you really expect Byron Leftwich to lead the offense down an 80+ yard field and score consistently? Do you expect Charlie Batch to do it against Cleveland? Being ranked high as far as yards and points is great and will give the Steelers a chance to win most of the time, but the Steelers aren't getting to the Super Bowl if the splash plays don't come more often.

Special teams also bears some blame in that regard as the return game is practically non-existent and the coverage is a joke.
But splash plays don't count for points. Much more important for a defense is not allowing splash plays, at which this team is very good. The only stat that really matters is points allowed, which is accomplished 95% of the time by gaining offensive yards, so those two are closely related. Nothing else matters.

I prefer to agree with Lebeau and his players, who insist that if they continue to play sound defense the splash plays will come. The basic thing to stress is tackling, not allowing points, or the big plays that lead to points. They do these things very well. Everything else is gravy.
You know, all those points the Patriots have been scoring in the past few weeks aren't just on Tom Brady. They've been getting scores from their defense (which is statistically inferior to the Steelers' defense) and their special teams. The Steelers' defense needs to return to its old ways of making splash plays. And that is not controversial, it's fact.
When your offense puts you up by double-digits, the defense's job gets a whole lot easier and the turnovers start coming in bunches. When was the last time the offense put us up by 21 or 28 or whatever it was yesterday?

lipps83
11-23-2012, 04:46 PM
Tell me, how have they done in the past five games in the 4th quarter?

That's right, I forgot that since the Steelers defense is now #1 in total yards since week 9, the first 5 games do not exist....

Outside of future hall of famer Matt Cassel marching the worst NFL offense since 1929 down the field to tie the game and send it into overtime, they have played great.

Are they playing better? Absolutely. How well they are currently playing is not my argument.

I really don't think I can state myself more clearly than I already have. If you want to read the stat lines and be happy that the Steelers are #1 on a piece of paper, that's cool with me.

GoFor7
11-23-2012, 04:47 PM
If you told the 32 head coaches that their defense would only give up 3 points, every coach would take that in a heartbeat.

Sure, it does not 100% guarantee a win:
--rain might even the playing field
--some weird special teams fiasco occurs
--the offense gets shut out (0-3)

The other 97 times out of 100, 3 points wins the game.

Football is simple: the team with the most points wins the game. And, 3 points is the second lowest total that a defense can give up (zero being the least amount).

You "say" that you do not blame the defense, but then you turn right around and say that the defense should have given the offense a short field. WHY? The defense gave them something even better: a deficit of only 3 points. Any offense should be able to score more than 3 points... even a broken-ribbed led offense. Furthermore, Byron did not have to "consistently" lead his offense on 80 yard drives; he needed two FGs. You act like he had to overcome a three touchdown deficit. Again, he had to surpass 3 points... and again, even a broken-ribbed QB should have been able to score 6 points.

Regardless, even if the defense had produced a short field, what then??? Because, I remember Mike Wallace not dragging his toe on a TD (a TD that would have given the Steelers the win). So, short field or not, the offense did not come through (i.e. did not capitalize on red-zone opportunities).

Furthermore, if given an "either or" option, as opposed to a shortened field, I say that the offense would actually prefer to only have to score more than 3 points. As in, if we asked the offense:

Would you rather your average starting point for a drive be at the 35 yard line?
OR
Would you rather the defense only allow 3 points (i.e. you only have to score 6 points)???

I think that all 32 offensive coordinators and/or head coaches would choose the latter.

Yup, just as I thought. Typical knee-jerk reaction. "Yinz don't say anything 'bout da stiller defense!!!!!!! *spills beer* Hey! Git me anudder beer n'at!"

But splash plays don't count for points. Much more important for a defense is not allowing splash plays, at which this team is very good. The only stat that really matters is points allowed, which is accomplished 95% of the time by gaining offensive yards, so those two are closely related. Nothing else matters

Splash plays don't count for points? Well, I guess in reality it isn't always a given they count for points, but they damn well increase a team's chances of getting more points.

When your offense puts you up by double-digits, the defense's job gets a whole lot easier and the turnovers start coming in bunches. When was the last time the offense put us up by 21 or 28 or whatever it was yesterday?

Like I said earlier, the Steelers don't think like that. They think possession is more important than scoring and that the offense should babysit the defense. Now if you want the offense to get ahead like that, then they have to stop worrying about time of possession and take more shots down the field. Since the defense can't force turnovers, and since special teams suck, the offense isn't going to get down field on a consistent basis by dinking-and-dunking 80 to 90 yards each drive. Receivers dropping catchable balls don't help either.

teegre
11-23-2012, 05:19 PM
Yup, just as I thought. Typical knee-jerk reaction. "Yinz don't say anything 'bout da stiller defense!!!!!!! *spills beer* Hey! Git me anudder beer n'at!"


Typical Gofor7 response: berate Steelers fans at every possible opportunity; derisively refer to people as "Yinz"; and/or say that anyone who makes any sort of point is too stupid to get your garbled counter-points (if there is ever even a counter-point).

You can say whatever you want. Everyone is here to discuss the Steelers.

BUT, when you say outlandish stuff (the defense lost the Ravens game)... then expect some people to respond. Of course, if anyone disagrees with you, you go into "Yinz this" and "typical Steelers fan that."

You blamed the defense for the Ravens loss... so, again, the onus is on you to explain why giving 3 points makes this a bad defense. NOPE, all we get is derision.

Maybe if you has said something like: you'd like to see more turnovers (who wouldn't want more turnovers? That is effing obvious; I'd like seven TDs per game, as well). BUT, you didn't say that. Instead, you aver that the defense lost the game, because the defense did not hand deliver a TD to the offense.

So, I can now expect a "You're a Yinzer" response and/or some sort of nasty remark, because you lack any real ground to stand on.

GOFOR7: The defense lost this game.
ANYONE ELSE: The defense only gave up 3 points.
GOFOR7: You're a Yinzer.

lipps83
11-23-2012, 05:28 PM
Yup, just as I thought. Typical knee-jerk reaction. "Yinz don't say anything 'bout da stiller defense!!!!!!! *spills beer* Hey! Git me anudder beer n'at!"

Unfortunately that is true. Any slightly negative inference that goes against majority opinion and you are labeled as 'gay', 'not a fan', 'ravens fan', 'collinsworth lover' and so on. It seems most Steelers fans like to feel they are better than fans of other teams, but they are the same. If you don't agree with them, you suck.

You apparently cannot be an objective Steelers fan, must be subjective.

teegre
11-23-2012, 05:39 PM
Unfortunately that is true. Any slightly negative inference that goes against majority opinion and you are labeled as 'gay', 'not a fan', 'ravens fan', 'collinsworth lover' and so on. It seems most Steelers fans like to feel they are better than fans of other teams, but they are the same. If you don't agree with them, you suck.

You apparently cannot be an objective Steelers fan, must be subjective.

1. I never use derision. Maybe others do, and I can not speak for them, but since you are replying to something said about me, then I feel the need to clarify.

2. We all come here to discuss. Rarely do all of us agree. But, discussion follows a back & forth... an ebb & flow... something that does not occur with several people on this site.

Some of us bring up points & counter-points; others just call names. Maybe you're one of the prior.

2-a. I feel that my points were pretty darn objective; being called a "Yinzer" is very subjective... and argumentative... (and admittedly, brought out some more "opinionated" comments).

3. Maybe you can be more enlightening than your counterpart. He says that the defense is at fault for the loss to the Ravens, because the defense did not set the offense up to score (via turnovers). I say that the defense only gave up 3 points, which is effing great.

Please, explain to me how giving up 3 points makes for a bad defensive outing.

(That is the point that I made that started this diatribe.)

Hawaii 5-0
11-23-2012, 05:56 PM
I feel that my points were pretty darn objective; being called a "Yinzer" is very subjective... and argumentative... (and admittedly, brought out some more "opinionated" comments).


You're a Yinzer! :chuckle: :rofl: :flap: :sofunny:

teegre
11-23-2012, 05:58 PM
You're a Yinzer! :chuckle: :rofl: :flap: :sofunny:

Oh yeah... well.. your mom goes fishing in the frozen foods section of the supermarket.

:wink02:

Hawaii 5-0
11-23-2012, 05:59 PM
Oh yeah... well.. your mom goes fishing in the frozen foods section of the supermarket.

:wink02:

she's probably looking for my sister...:chuckle:

teegre
11-23-2012, 05:59 PM
she's probably looking for my sister...:chuckle:

...or my brother-uncle.

:wink02:

Hawaii 5-0
11-23-2012, 06:00 PM
...or my brother-uncle.

:wink02:

my sister swims after troop ships...

Hawaii 5-0
11-23-2012, 06:02 PM
...or my brother-uncle.

:wink02:

who is that, Charley? :wink02:

fer522
11-23-2012, 06:51 PM
I can't blame the D for losing the game in fact I think they played one of the best games of the year imho if I'm gonna blame anybody for the loss I'd put it on 1st lefty if he was hurt he should have said something to the coaches and 2nd Tomlin for not being able to see that lefty was hurt I mean he was under throwing receiver Tomlin should've seen that. I like Tomlin but sometimes his too stubborn and doesn't see the big picture IMO

GoFor7
11-23-2012, 06:52 PM
Unfortunately that is true. Any slightly negative inference that goes against majority opinion and you are labeled as 'gay', 'not a fan', 'ravens fan', 'collinsworth lover' and so on. It seems most Steelers fans like to feel they are better than fans of other teams, but they are the same. If you don't agree with them, you suck.

You apparently cannot be an objective Steelers fan, must be subjective.

You also get called an Arians' lover too. Oh, and when you imply the defense needs to get turnovers, it's "BOOOOO! YINZ THINK DA STILLER DEFENSE STINKS! BOOOOO!!!! YINZ JUST WANT AIR-HEAD BACK! BOOOOOOO!"

Hawaii 5-0
11-23-2012, 07:10 PM
You also get called an Arians' lover too.

I don't care how mad I ever got at yinz I would never stoop so low as to call yinz something as mean, rude and vile as an Arians lover...:chuckle:

teegre
11-23-2012, 09:04 PM
You also get called an Arians' lover too. Oh, and when you imply the defense needs to get turnovers, it's "BOOOOO! YINZ THINK DA STILLER DEFENSE STINKS! BOOOOO!!!! YINZ JUST WANT AIR-HEAD BACK! BOOOOOOO!"

If someone actually "booed" you for wanting more turnovers, they'd be mistaken. Obviously, everyone wants more turnovers (duh).

But,

1) that's not what you said.

You blamed the Ravens loss on the defense for not getting turnovers.

Those are two completely different statements. The first we all agree with (duh); the second has resulted in the past few pages of this thread.

2) who booed you??? Were you actually booed?... or, did you just misinterpret someone disagreeing with you/providing facts/making a counter-point as someone booing you?

jiminpa
11-23-2012, 09:34 PM
Here's the problem, for five years Lebeau was the only actual coach above the position coach level. His defense clearly carried the team to the Superbowl and won it once. Some of the fans on this board are more loyal to our now departed worst OC in the league and his friend BR, and so have had to find a way that every loss was the defense's fault, and they got good at it--so good that they managed to actually convince themselves of what was obviously untrue. So now they go back and hold the defense to the standard of the previous years, even though that wasn't actually good enough then either. Whatever goes wrong, the defense did it. Whatever goes right is credited to BR and Arians. The offense couldn't score 3 points more than they and the special teams gave up--blame the defense, after all they've been doing it at least since Cowher departed.

For the record, I won't complain about "splash plays," but I'd much rather see this team win consistently by design than by luck. The defense smoothers opponents by design, not by a lot of risky big plays. When healthy the offense has the luxury of moving the ball down the field methodically and taking a few lucky shots. I like that.

BTW, Haley's gameplan would have been to utilize the only thing Leftwich does well as a passer, which is throw the ball really hard, but he couldn't do that last Sunday. Batch has never been able to do that, and he isn't even as strong as he used to be. So it is no wonder the offense stalled after the first drive. That is on Tomlin or Colbert, whoever made the decision to stick with two backups too fragile to play a whole game combined. Seems like a Tomlin thing, but I could be wrong about that. Remember I posted last week that it wasn't Byron's delivery I was worried about, but his fragility. I hope the guy we just got is ready to play, because as much as I like Charlie Batch, I doubt he can go a full game either. This time last week, I seriously expected Batch and Leftwich to have both sustained season ending injuries against the purple-browns, (I love that name for them). I have to give Byron credit for being mentally tough, unfortunately, his body is not in line with his mentality.

ricardisimo
11-23-2012, 09:55 PM
Splash plays don't count for points? Well, I guess in reality it isn't always a given they count for points, but they damn well increase a team's chances of getting more points.



Like I said earlier, the Steelers don't think like that. They think possession is more important than scoring and that the offense should babysit the defense. Now if you want the offense to get ahead like that, then they have to stop worrying about time of possession and take more shots down the field. Since the defense can't force turnovers, and since special teams suck, the offense isn't going to get down field on a consistent basis by dinking-and-dunking 80 to 90 yards each drive. Receivers dropping catchable balls don't help either.
They think the offense should babysit the defense? Are you sure you're in the right forum? Whatever. I'm not sure you're in this debate in good faith, so I'm checking out.

Hawaii 5-0
11-23-2012, 10:05 PM
Like I said earlier, the Steelers don't think like that. They think possession is more important than scoring

now you're just plain being silly...:doh:

jiminpa
11-23-2012, 10:22 PM
now you're just plain being silly...:doh:He never wasn't.

Danny136200
11-23-2012, 10:48 PM
That's right, I forgot that since the Steelers defense is now #1 in total yards since week 9, the first 5 games do not exist....

Outside of future hall of famer Matt Cassel marching the worst NFL offense since 1929 down the field to tie the game and send it into overtime, they have played great.

Are they playing better? Absolutely. How well they are currently playing is not my argument.

I really don't think I can state myself more clearly than I already have. If you want to read the stat lines and be happy that the Steelers are #1 on a piece of paper, that's cool with me.

Why yes , the first five games still do exist, and it can tell people how much they have improved since.

But you want turnovers and sacks, when I just want the defense to get off the field on third down (which they have done impressively since the first five games). Splash plays will come (interception in OT to win the game is not a splash play?) sacks will come, but to say that this defense needs to do everything for this offense (and special teams) is absurd. The defense allowed 6 offensive points, negated the Ravens' best deep threat, and stifled one of the best running backs in the game. Special teams allowed a punt return for a touchdown and continually left the offense with bad field positioning. The offense could only muster 10 points and two good drives throughout the game. And when the running game got going in the fourth quarter, we nearly abandoned the running game!

The defense did its job in the Ravens game(and in most games since the winning streak started) The offense and special teams needed to step up for this game.

Rick5895
11-24-2012, 08:27 AM
It's funny on these forums, we have guys who are defensive supporters and people who think the offense can do no wrong. Those people make excuses for the offense if the O plays poorly, like not enough short fields, no turnovers from the D etc.
(hypothetical for you) Our defense could be pitching a shutout allowing less than 150 yards forcing 2 or 3 turnovers, we could be winning 6-0 in the 4th Q despite the offense turning the ball over 3 or 4 times in the opponents end of the field. The other team gets a lucky bounce and scores a TD late to win 7-6. This forum would be lit up, calling for LeBeau's head, Tomlins head and crying how the defense let another one slip away.
Now maybe my example is a bit far fetched but you all get the idea. This offense has all of this talent at WR, all of this speed, sometimes the offense needs to be able to win some bloody games, no matter who is at QB. At the start of this season, reading through these forums, it was almost a consensus...the Offense had to step up and win some games and not rely so much on the D. Well, that has not happened this season as we ahd hoped, yet the defense is getting way to much blame when we lose.
BTW there are three parts to a football game..Offense, Defense and yes special teams, and we have not had a very good year returning or defending on ST. That, my friends is as much to blame for our 6-4 record as anything else. A better effort on ST against the Ratbirds and we win!!
Thats my rant for the day, LOL!

:tt04::tt04::tt04:

teegre
11-24-2012, 09:29 AM
It's funny on these forums, we have guys who are defensive supporters and people who think the offense can do no wrong. Those people make excuses for the offense if the O plays poorly, like not enough short fields, no turnovers from the D etc.
(hypothetical for you) Our defense could be pitching a shutout allowing less than 150 yards forcing 2 or 3 turnovers, we could be winning 6-0 in the 4th Q despite the offense turning the ball over 3 or 4 times in the opponents end of the field. The other team gets a lucky bounce and scores a TD late to win 7-6. This forum would be lit up, calling for LeBeau's head, Tomlins head and crying how the defense let another one slip away.
Now maybe my example is a bit far fetched but you all get the idea. This offense has all of this talent at WR, all of this speed, sometimes the offense needs to be able to win some bloody games, no matter who is at QB. At the start of this season, reading through these forums, it was almost a consensus...the Offense had to step up and win some games and not rely so much on the D. Well, that has not happened this season as we ahd hoped, yet the defense is getting way to much blame when we lose.
BTW there are three parts to a football game..Offense, Defense and yes special teams, and we have not had a very good year returning or defending on ST. That, my friends is as much to blame for our 6-4 record as anything else. A better effort on ST against the Ratbirds and we win!!
Thats my rant for the day, LOL!

:tt04::tt04::tt04:

The hypothetical situation which you mentioned was a little extreme, but actually not all that far off from the Ravens game.

-The defense gave up 3 points.
-The special teams gave up 7 points.
-The offense gave the Ravens 3 points (Wallace fumble in the red-zone).

Summation:
The Steelers lose, despite the defense playing very well... and some people overtly blame the defense. Worse yet, some people backtrack & say that they don't blame the defense, yet in the same breath, they blame the defense "because it did not giving the offense a shortened field" (ie making it appear that they are being somewhat rational, when they're just as outlandish as the first type of person).

Anyway, I mentioned exactly those three bulleted points, and was called a drunken Yinzer. Expect to be called a drunken, stupid Yinzer, too.

GoFor7
11-24-2012, 01:12 PM
The hypothetical situation which you mentioned was a little extreme, but actually not all that far off from the Ravens game.

-The defense gave up 3 points.
-The special teams gave up 7 points.
-The offense gave the Ravens 3 points (Wallace fumble in the red-zone).

Summation:
The Steelers lose, despite the defense playing very well... and some people overtly blame the defense. Worse yet, some people backtrack & say that they don't blame the defense, yet in the same breath, they blame the defense "because it did not giving the offense a shortened field" (ie making it appear that they are being somewhat rational, when they're just as outlandish as the first type of person).

Anyway, I mentioned exactly those three bulleted points, and was called a drunken Yinzer. Expect to be called a drunken, stupid Yinzer, too.

I guess I shouldn't mention that Tomlin said the defense needed to make a splash play in that game in his press conference. :noidea: But if it makes you feel better, I thought Haley called a poor game on offense. Tried to be too cute at times, especially down near the goal-line.

As for my comments about the offense babysitting the defense, what do you all expect? If the offense is so hell-bent on drives that consume the clock rather than strike quickly, the Steelers will be in too many close games - thus putting more pressure on the defense. With the defense not getting turnovers, and special teams being a complete embarrassment, this offense needs more big plays to make up the yardage.

teegre
11-24-2012, 01:24 PM
I guess I shouldn't mention that Tomlin said the defense needed to make a splash play in that game in his press conference. :noidea: But if it makes you feel better, I thought Haley called a poor game on offense. Tried to be too cute at times, especially down near the goal-line.

As for my comments about the offense babysitting the defense, what do you all expect? If the offense is so hell-bent on drives that consume the clock rather than strike quickly, the Steelers will be in too many close games - thus putting more pressure on the defense. With the defense not getting turnovers, and special teams being a complete embarrassment, this offense needs more big plays to make up the yardage.

Wait... which is responsible for the loss: the offense or the defense? It sounds like you are FINALLY saying that it's NOT the defense... which has been my only point all along.

Oh... and you now agree that the ST giving up 7 points was also a huge part of the problem. (We are making real strides here.)

In other words, you agree with what I originally stated:
-the defense gave up 3 points
-the ST gave up 7 points
-the offense gave the Ravens 3 points (turnover in the red-zone)

It only took three pages... but again, we're making strides.

As far as Tomlin's comments go: everyone wants more turnovers... even the head coach. I'm sure that he also wanted more TDs by the offense... as well as not giving up a TD on special teams.

GoFor7
11-24-2012, 02:23 PM
Wait... which is responsible for the loss: the offense or the defense? It sounds like you are FINALLY saying that it's NOT the defense... which has been my only point all along.

Oh... and you now agree that the ST giving up 7 points was also a huge part of the problem. (We are making real strides here.)

In other words, you agree with what I originally stated:
-the defense gave up 3 points
-the ST gave up 7 points
-the offense gave the Ravens 3 points (turnover in the red-zone)

It only took three pages... but again, we're making strides.

As far as Tomlin's comments go: everyone wants more turnovers... even the head coach. I'm sure that he also wanted more TDs by the offense... as well as not giving up a TD on special teams.

This is the first time in this thread you noticed that I mentioned special teams is a joke?

All that alcohol....

teegre
11-24-2012, 02:41 PM
This is the first time in this thread you noticed that I mentioned special teams is a joke?

All that alcohol....

1. You initially disagreed with me (when I mentioned ST gave up 7 points); instead, you called me a Yinzer.

2. When you finally did indeed acknowledge ST, you added the obligatory "But, the defense should have set the offense up with a turnover." So, we were back to square one: you blaming the defense.

Make sense?

[Please, stop the alcohol references; I don't want to go into specifics, but alcohol jokes strike a personal nerve with me.]

GoFor7
11-24-2012, 02:50 PM
1. You initially disagreed with me (when I mentioned ST gave up 7 points); instead, you called me a Yinzer.

2. When you finally did indeed acknowledge ST, you added the obligatory "But, the defense should have set the offense up with a turnover." So, we were back to square one: you blaming the defense.

Make sense?

[Please, stop the alcohol references; I don't want to go into specifics, but alcohol jokes strike a personal nerve with me.]

I disagreed about special teams? Hmmm......

Well, Pittsburgh is the capital of knee-jerk reactions when it comes to sports....

ricardisimo
11-24-2012, 03:00 PM
Thankfully this thread should get a new infusion of meaningful content tomorrow thanks to the game. It's reached new lows of mindless repetition and thinly-veiled insults.

I have an odd feeling that Batch is going to give the offense a nice little boost, so this entire conversation will be moot for a while.

GoFor7
11-24-2012, 03:21 PM
Thankfully this thread should get a new infusion of meaningful content tomorrow thanks to the game. It's reached new lows of mindless repetition and thinly-veiled insults.

I have an odd feeling that Batch is going to give the offense a nice little boost, so this entire conversation will be moot for a while.

Oh no no no no no. In fact, if Batch has a good game it might be worse than him having a bad game. When Batch ripped Tampa Bay a few years ago there were calls for him to be the starter even when Ben came back from suspension. With Pittsburgh sports, there's always room for silliness.

jiminpa
11-24-2012, 03:49 PM
Thankfully this thread should get a new infusion of meaningful content tomorrow thanks to the game. It's reached new lows of mindless repetition and thinly-veiled insults.

I have an odd feeling that Batch is going to give the offense a nice little boost, so this entire conversation will be moot for a while.No it won't, because no matter who wins the defense still won't score enough points.

GoFor7
11-24-2012, 04:11 PM
No it won't, because no matter who wins the defense still won't score enough points.

lol. More knee-jerk reactions.

JeromeBetties63
11-25-2012, 12:51 AM
Exactly, they smoke the opposition one week and mirror it the next week.

wera176
11-25-2012, 04:07 AM
For the record, I won't complain about "splash plays," but I'd much rather see this team win consistently by design than by luck. The defense smoothers opponents by design, not by a lot of risky big plays. When healthy the offense has the luxury of moving the ball down the field methodically and taking a few lucky shots. I like that.



^This

tony hipchest
11-25-2012, 04:29 AM
Oh no no no no no. In fact, if Batch has a good game it might be worse than him having a bad game. When Batch ripped Tampa Bay a few years ago there were calls for him to be the starter even when Ben came back from suspension. With Pittsburgh sports, there's always room for silliness.



:bs: :link:

are you talking about "calls" from dumbass fans who dont know their ass from a hole in the ground to local radio shows?

if so, great cite and source. :thumbsup:

:rolleyes:

"batch over ben"... :toofunny:

lipps83
12-03-2012, 09:14 AM
I just wanted to bump this thread so that I can eat some crow. The defense over the last several weeks has surpassed my expectations. Yes, two of the games were losses but that was due to the inefficiency of the offense.

I still however stand by my initial post that the defense had a #1 ranking at the halfway point of the season in part due to the ball control nature of the offense.

With Ben coming back soon I hope that the defense maintains their current efficiencies and the offense gets back to where they were and this will be a team to contend.

teegre
12-03-2012, 01:43 PM
I just wanted to bump this thread so that I can eat some crow. The defense over the last several weeks has surpassed my expectations. Yes, two of the games were losses but that was due to the inefficiency of the offense.

I still however stand by my initial post that the defense had a #1 ranking at the halfway point of the season in part due to the ball control nature of the offense.

With Ben coming back soon I hope that the defense maintains their current efficiencies and the offense gets back to where they were and this will be a team to contend.

That was very mature of you. I commend you; not many people, let alone poster on message boards, would ever admit a mistake.

Oh, and welcome to "our side" if the debate. :wink02:

lipps83
12-17-2012, 08:59 AM
Yeah, I just wanted to bump this again and take back my eating of crow. They looked good against the Chiefs/Browns/Ravens so I thought the defense was turning it around.

They are still ranked #1 but scare nobody. The system no longer works.

It was the Chiefs/Browns/Ravens that we looked good against.

What was I thinking?

casteeler
12-17-2012, 09:15 AM
Yeah, I just wanted to bump this again and take back my eating of crow. They looked good against the Chiefs/Browns/Ravens so I thought the defense was turning it around.

They are still ranked #1 but scare nobody. The system no longer works.

It was the Chiefs/Browns/Ravens that we looked good against.

What was I thinking?

This system no longer works because it lacks the proper personnel.

lipps83
12-17-2012, 09:39 AM
This system no longer works because it lacks the proper personnel.

I think that is part of it, but I wouldn't say they are lacking at every position. I think other teams have figured out how to beat Dick Lebeau. Like Brady and Manning have been doing for years.

You can dink and dunk this defense to death.

maddog78
12-17-2012, 09:46 AM
This system no longer works because it lacks the proper personnel.

Yeah, LeBeau's system relies on 6 or 7 Pro Bowlers playing at their peak. He is unable to scheme any pressure on the QB.

When is the last time a DB got a sack on a blitz? We either let Wood and Deebo try to beat their man, or give up with a 3-man containment "rush".

GoFor7
12-17-2012, 10:34 AM
I don't think all of the defense's issues are on Dick LeBeau, but maybe it's time for a change. Over the last two seasons this defense has just gotten stale. It looks good stat-wise, but it doesn't get pressure on the QB and doesn't generate turnovers at the rate it used to. I also can't stand the fact that this defense is considered "too complex" for rookies or even second year players? If you need a PhD to play football, something is wrong. There are rookies on other teams that come into the league and make an impact with defenses that are probably much less complex.

lipps83
12-17-2012, 11:03 AM
I don't think all of the defense's issues are on Dick LeBeau, but maybe it's time for a change. Over the last two seasons this defense has just gotten stale. It looks good stat-wise, but it doesn't get pressure on the QB and doesn't generate turnovers at the rate it used to. I also can't stand the fact that this defense is considered "too complex" for rookies or even second year players? If you need a PhD to play football, something is wrong. There are rookies on other teams that come into the league and make an impact with defenses that are probably much less complex.

Yes, we haven't had an impact rookie on defense since Kendrell Bell. That was before Lebeau came back and used rookies sparingly under the guise that the defense was super-duper-ridiculously complicated.

This defense was good after Lebeau left the first time. It was good before he came back. It will be good after he retires.

Tomlin gets all kinds of crap for "winning with Cowher's player" but somehow Lebeau gets a pass and seen as some type of deity.

Don't get me wrong, I think he is a great coach, but he has been running the same scheme since the 80's with the Bengals.

TRH
12-17-2012, 11:09 AM
I think that is part of it, but I wouldn't say they are lacking at every position. I think other teams have figured out how to beat Dick Lebeau. Like Brady and Manning have been doing for years.

You can dink and dunk this defense to death.


i agree.
I think its a combination of 2 things (2 BIG things) :

1 - lack of good personnel. We need stronger, more physical presence up front on the line (see the 49ers, Texans, and some other teams for reference - we look weak and small in comparison, not to mention without the attitude they do). I won't even go into discussing the "corners".

2 - teams HAVE figured us out. Period. Expose our corners. Pass to the outside. Throw short passes to the outside. Throw longer passes to the outside. Both our non-existent pass rush and our terrible secondary has been figured out.

steelfury02
12-17-2012, 11:49 AM
i agree.
I think its a combination of 2 things (2 BIG things) :

1 - lack of good personnel. We need stronger, more physical presence up front on the line (see the 49ers, Texans, and some other teams for reference - we look weak and small in comparison, not to mention without the attitude they do). I won't even go into discussing the "corners".

2 - teams HAVE figured us out. Period. Expose our corners. Pass to the outside. Throw short passes to the outside. Throw longer passes to the outside. Both our non-existent pass rush and our terrible secondary has been figured out.

The injuries, while I hate to even talk about them as an excuse, are hampering our ability to adjust to these outside throws. Too many things to overcome for everything to be corrected. We take care of the outside, we'll be exposed in the middle. Too many guys having to have hybrid roles now to cover up deficiencies - this is why you see Woodley dropping back so much, even more now than before. Hell - might as well just go with the 3rd stringers and off the street dudes and let Troy play the line/QB the entire game and let him loose, wreak some havoc all game long. Might as well - why the heck not? The worst that will happen is a blowout - might as well see if Troy can do something exciting.

GoFor7
12-17-2012, 12:00 PM
Another thing about this defense is that it's not aggressive enough. LeBeau thinks that eventually a team will make a mistake and a turnover will come. Wrong. Defenses have to make turnovers happen. Undercut a route and pick off a pass. When you sit in a 10 yard cushion and "tackle the catch," turnovers won't happen.

steelfury02
12-17-2012, 12:10 PM
Another thing about this defense is that it's not aggressive enough. LeBeau thinks that eventually a team will make a mistake and a turnover will come. Wrong. Defenses have to make turnovers happen. Undercut a route and pick off a pass. When you sit in a 10 yard cushion and "tackle the catch," turnovers won't happen.

Agreed!:applaudit:

Hawaii 5-0
12-17-2012, 01:19 PM
I don't think all of the defense's issues are on Dick LeBeau, but maybe it's time for a change. Over the last two seasons this defense has just gotten stale. It looks good stat-wise, but it doesn't get pressure on the QB and doesn't generate turnovers at the rate it used to. I also can't stand the fact that this defense is considered "too complex" for rookies or even second year players? If you need a PhD to play football, something is wrong. There are rookies on other teams that come into the league and make an impact with defenses that are probably much less complex.

good post and I totally agree :drink:

teegre
12-17-2012, 07:07 PM
Another thing about this defense is that it's not aggressive enough. LeBeau thinks that eventually a team will make a mistake and a turnover will come. Wrong. Defenses have to make turnovers happen. Undercut a route and pick off a pass. When you sit in a 10 yard cushion and "tackle the catch," turnovers won't happen.

I disagree... to a degree.

AGREE: I think that the defense gets no pressure...

DISAGREE: ...because, they simply do not have the players to do so. When Timmons is sent at the QB, he gets there & gets the sack. When Harrison is sent, he gets there, gets the sack, and often gets the strip.

But, when they send Foote, he gets there... and misses the QB. Similarly, when Hood & Keisel get there, they miss the QB. And, Woodley... well... Woodley is hurt every other play.

Dion Jordan solves a lot of this defense's issues.

AGREE: I think that the defense gets no pressure...

DISAGREE: ...because, due to having the 4th & 5th string CBs and the 3rd string FS playing CB, the team was dropping Harrison into coverage on (my estimate) about 75% of the plays.

DISAGREE: I like the 10 yard cushion defense... as long as Harrison is rushing the passer. If he is not rushing the passer, then no one else is going to "make a splash play." It's that simple. If you make a QB go ten plays down the field, Harrison WILL get to the QB on one of those plays: sack, or even a force fumble.

That type of defense does indeed work... if the OLBs get to the QB.

If there is no OLB pressure, then that defense can be picked apart.

FanSince72
12-17-2012, 07:22 PM
I don't think all of the defense's issues are on Dick LeBeau, but maybe it's time for a change. Over the last two seasons this defense has just gotten stale. It looks good stat-wise, but it doesn't get pressure on the QB and doesn't generate turnovers at the rate it used to. I also can't stand the fact that this defense is considered "too complex" for rookies or even second year players? If you need a PhD to play football, something is wrong. There are rookies on other teams that come into the league and make an impact with defenses that are probably much less complex.

Why is it that when the defense sucks it ISN'T about LeBeau but when the offense sucked in the past it was ALWAYS about Arians?

You can't have it both ways. If the OC is going to get reamed for a bad offense, the the DC has to assume the position when HIS squad mails it in.

Funny thing is that I can't think of one particular year under Arians when our offense seemed as rudderless as this year's offense and all I've heard for years is how he sucked and blah, blah, blah. Yet he's 9-5 with a team full of rookies and we're 7-7 with a stable of pro-bowlers and the guy who was supposed to be our savior because he WASN'T Arians..

Gee, I wonder if getting rid of BA was such a great idea after all...

Nah! Haley's MUCH better. :sofunny::sofunny::sofunny:

GoFor7
12-17-2012, 07:31 PM
Why is it that when the defense sucks it ISN'T about LeBeau but when the offense sucked in the past it was ALWAYS about Arians?

You can't have it both ways. If the OC is going to get reamed for a bad offense, the the DC has to assume the position when HIS squad mails it in.

Funny thing is that I can't think of one particular year under Arians when our offense seemed as rudderless as this year's offense and all I've heard for years is how he sucked and blah, blah, blah. Yet he's 9-5 with a team full of rookies and we're 7-7 with a stable of pro-bowlers and the guy who was supposed to be our savior because he WASN'T Arians..

Gee, I wonder if getting rid of BA was such a great idea after all...

Nah! Haley's MUCH better. :sofunny::sofunny::sofunny:

I don't think LeBeau is to blame for the fact the front office has kept some guys too long. Much like I don't think Arians is to blame because the front office failed to get quality offensive linemen. I do blame him for all of those fourth-quarter let downs that have happened since the second half of Super Bowl 43 as the defense kept making the same mistakes. It was only up until this year he figured out how to do things without Polamalu.

jiminpa
12-17-2012, 08:23 PM
Why is it that when the defense sucks it ISN'T about LeBeau but when the offense sucked in the past it was ALWAYS about Arians?

You can't have it both ways. If the OC is going to get reamed for a bad offense, the the DC has to assume the position when HIS squad mails it in.

Funny thing is that I can't think of one particular year under Arians when our offense seemed as rudderless as this year's offense and all I've heard for years is how he sucked and blah, blah, blah. Yet he's 9-5 with a team full of rookies and we're 7-7 with a stable of pro-bowlers and the guy who was supposed to be our savior because he WASN'T Arians..

Gee, I wonder if getting rid of BA was such a great idea after all...

Nah! Haley's MUCH better. :sofunny::sofunny::sofunny:You can watch the game and see that Arians sucked no matter who was in the game, and you can see that LeBeau can field a defense that holds in own with half of it made up of guys who had to get their first NFL game uniform two weeks ago, (and one or two of them traded in their Burger King uniforms for them). So this defense made up of of guys who were game-time decisions and recent burger flippers isn't pushing offenses out of scoring position when the offense turns the ball over anymore, that doesn't make the scheme bad. Like I said, try watching the game, not applying cookie cutter reasoning. Arians was the weakest link. The corner backs who weren't even playing in the NFL three weeks ago are the weakest links. See the difference? And you probably never will, but that doesn't make the rest of us wrong.

lipps83
12-17-2012, 10:17 PM
I don't think LeBeau is to blame for the fact the front office has kept some guys too long. Much like I don't think Arians is to blame because the front office failed to get quality offensive linemen. I do blame him for all of those fourth-quarter let downs that have happened since the second half of Super Bowl 43 as the defense kept making the same mistakes. It was only up until this year he figured out how to do things without Polamalu.

Dick Lebeau has been blowing some pretty important 4th quarter leads since Montana led the 49'ers back against the Bengals in the Super Bowl in 1988.

Yeah, this defense is #1.

In jokes.

lipps83
12-17-2012, 10:27 PM
You can watch the game and see that Arians sucked no matter who was in the game, and you can see that LeBeau can field a defense that holds in own with half of it made up of guys who had to get their first NFL game uniform two weeks ago, (and one or two of them traded in their Burger King uniforms for them). So this defense made up of of guys who were game-time decisions and recent burger flippers isn't pushing offenses out of scoring position when the offense turns the ball over anymore, that doesn't make the scheme bad. Like I said, try watching the game, not applying cookie cutter reasoning. Arians was the weakest link. The corner backs who weren't even playing in the NFL three weeks ago are the weakest links. See the difference? And you probably never will, but that doesn't make the rest of us wrong.

Then what are your excuses when the secondary was healthy minus one person against the Raiders and Titans, heck, the full first 6 or 7 weeks of football? Troy being back and the defense has been worse. I wonder if you were one of the people on this board calling for Ike Taylor to be cut from the team, now wanting to use his absence the last two weeks as an excuse for pitiful defensive play.

This defense used to dictate games. Now they can only stop an offense on 3rd down when the offense has the pass fall incomplete. We used to blow teams up not just on 3rd down, but on every down. Now instead of dictating what is going to happen we drop everyone into coverage and hope that the pass is incomplete to force the offense to punt.

This defense is a joke and has been all year minus some good games against the Jets, Chiefs, Browns, Ravens. All offenses that are complete garbage.

Go ahead and be proud that they are number 1 in total yards allowed. I will stick to reality and watch the defense fall apart every week late in the game.

jiminpa
12-17-2012, 10:34 PM
Dick Lebeau has been blowing some pretty important 4th quarter leads since Montana led the 49'ers back against the Bengals in the Super Bowl in 1988.

Yeah, this defense is #1.

In jokes.
And the offense turning over the ball in its own endzone has nothing to do with that? Some of you closet browns fans have been crying about the defense giving up almost as many points as the offense for years. I call BS. Even with guys who wouldn't have seen an NFL field if there hadn't been so many injuries this year this defense is still affective. In the games in recent years that the offense literally gave up more points than the defense you Arians fans would be crying because the defense would give up 10 of the 13 points it allowed in the second half, calling the fact that the defense allowed less than two touchdowns the whole game irrelevant, because the majority came in the fourth quarter, and then you would blame the defense for points the offense gave the other team. Now you can barely hide your excitement that the defense isn't superhuman any more. Even with guys off of the street playing corner it is still a top 5 defense. It's not the defense.

Kanata-Steeler
12-18-2012, 04:39 AM
I think now this is just a: "#1 DeadThread by Smoke and Mirrors"
EDIT: Unless of course, you haven't seen our illustrious Offense playing lately ? :screwy:

steelbelieve
12-18-2012, 09:31 AM
Also an easy schedule. Only one game all year against a top 8 QB.

Ranked 19th if you adjust for strength of schedule.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

No. You better look again. They're ranked 11th both this week and last according to their proprietary criteria.

FanSince72
12-18-2012, 09:40 AM
You can watch the game and see that Arians sucked no matter who was in the game, and you can see that LeBeau can field a defense that holds in own with half of it made up of guys who had to get their first NFL game uniform two weeks ago, (and one or two of them traded in their Burger King uniforms for them). So this defense made up of of guys who were game-time decisions and recent burger flippers isn't pushing offenses out of scoring position when the offense turns the ball over anymore, that doesn't make the scheme bad. Like I said, try watching the game, not applying cookie cutter reasoning. Arians was the weakest link. The corner backs who weren't even playing in the NFL three weeks ago are the weakest links. See the difference? And you probably never will, but that doesn't make the rest of us wrong.


And once again I will point out:


5 winning seasons under Arians
Four of those seasons were double-digit wins
Three of those seasons were 12 wins
We went to 2 Super Bowls
We won 1 Super Bowl


And now Arians is 9-5 with a new team, serving as both the OC and as the Head Coach and has a roster of young players and a rookie QB.

No coach who "sucks" racks up a resume like that.

steelfury02
12-18-2012, 10:26 AM
And once again I will point out:


5 winning seasons under Arians
Four of those seasons were double-digit wins
Three of those seasons were 12 wins
We went to 2 Super Bowls
We won 1 Super Bowl


And now Arians is 9-5 with a new team, serving as both the OC and as the Head Coach and has a roster of young players and a rookie QB.

No coach who "sucks" racks up a resume like that.

Sorry, I just disagree. I believe you are giving any OC/HC way too much credit for a team/organization's accomplishments. The team that won the Super Bowl, averaged 26/pts a game during the playoffs and SB performance. That isn't counting Holmes punt return and Harrison's Int Return. That's 23.6 pts per game - hardly impressive. Good thing we went up against the lowly Chargers, Ravens with Rookie QB (oh yea, include Troy's pick 6 - average down to 21.6 pts/game), and one of the greatest plays in SB history, combined with Ben's late game improv to Holmes.

Struggling to score 3 TDs. IMO Arians contributions towards the SB run were minimal in comparison to one of the best defenses of all time, and the improv talent on offense.

We only tied the Chargers with a Holmes punt return. The Steelers only points in the first quarter

In the Ravens game, we only scored two field goals in the first quarter. Sounds like a trend of not being able to sustain drives to me

We only scored a field goal in the 1st, and 3rd quarter of SB XLIII. And needed late heroics (1 TD) to win the game in the 4th.

Ben's post XLIII interview (paraphrasing) "I scrambled left, scrambled right, looked for Holmes in the end zone and threw it up"

GoFor7
12-18-2012, 12:59 PM
Sorry, I just disagree. I believe you are giving any OC/HC way too much credit for a team/organization's accomplishments. The team that won the Super Bowl, averaged 26/pts a game during the playoffs and SB performance. That isn't counting Holmes punt return and Harrison's Int Return. That's 23.6 pts per game - hardly impressive. Good thing we went up against the lowly Chargers, Ravens with Rookie QB (oh yea, include Troy's pick 6 - average down to 21.6 pts/game), and one of the greatest plays in SB history, combined with Ben's late game improv to Holmes.

Struggling to score 3 TDs. IMO Arians contributions towards the SB run were minimal in comparison to one of the best defenses of all time, and the improv talent on offense.

We only tied the Chargers with a Holmes punt return. The Steelers only points in the first quarter

In the Ravens game, we only scored two field goals in the first quarter. Sounds like a trend of not being able to sustain drives to me

We only scored a field goal in the 1st, and 3rd quarter of SB XLIII. And needed late heroics (1 TD) to win the game in the 4th.

Ben's post XLIII interview (paraphrasing) "I scrambled left, scrambled right, looked for Holmes in the end zone and threw it up"

That may all be true, but has Haley proven he's any better?

Look at it this way, the Steelers were 8-8 and a non-playoff team in 2006. When Arians took over in 2007 the Steelers went 10-6 and won the division. Fast forward to 2012. Haley comes in a year after a 12-4 season. Did the offense underachieve in that season? Yes they did. Let me repeat for the knee-jerking yinzers, yes they underachieved. But nonetheless the team was 12-4. Now they can't finish any better than 9-7.

Now lets go over what this offense was supposed to achieve:

1.) Keep Ben upright - FAIL
2.) Reestablish running game - FAIL
3.) Score more points per game - FAIL

Arians is no future HOFer, but how has Haley's offense proven to be any better than last year's underachieving offense?

steelfury02
12-18-2012, 02:49 PM
That may all be true, but has Haley proven he's any better?

Look at it this way, the Steelers were 8-8 and a non-playoff team in 2006. When Arians took over in 2007 the Steelers went 10-6 and won the division. Fast forward to 2012. Haley comes in a year after a 12-4 season. Did the offense underachieve in that season? Yes they did. Let me repeat for the knee-jerking yinzers, yes they underachieved. But nonetheless the team was 12-4. Now they can't finish any better than 9-7.

Now lets go over what this offense was supposed to achieve:

1.) Keep Ben upright - FAIL
2.) Reestablish running game - FAIL
3.) Score more points per game - FAIL

Arians is no future HOFer, but how has Haley's offense proven to be any better than last year's underachieving offense?

Why I think Haley's offense is better. This article came out the morning before the win against KC, and Ben's injury. I'd argue Ben's injury (still think he isn't right), as well as the injuries on the line, among other injuries, as well as the RBs and WRs fumbling - is what is masking Haley's offense - not the philosophy and calls. I indicated with bold some important points/stats and where this offense was heading before being decimated and getting the dropsies. Keep in mind that this is the offense that supposedly wasn't playing to anyone's strengths.
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/steelers-make-pitch-for-roethlisberger-as-mvp-661606/

Steelers make pitch for Roethlisberger as MVP
November 11, 2012 12:32 am
By Ed Bouchette / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Byron Leftwich watched ESPN's "SportsCenter" the other day, and they listed their top five candidates for NFL Most Valuable Player. • Ben Roethlisberger was not among them. "He should be a candidate," said Leftwich, who backs him up at quarterback for the Steelers in more ways than one. "The fact he was not listed is ridiculous. He's one of the elite; '7' can play the game of football, and he's playing at a very high level."

What many believed might be a difficult transition season for Roethlisberger under a new coordinator and a new offense instead has been among his best. His 2,203 passing yards are on pace to break his own team record. His 16 touchdowns are on pace to tie his team record. His four interceptions are on pace to be his fewest other than the five he threw in 2010, when he missed four games and had just 17 touchdown passes.

His passer rating of 101.1 would be the second-highest of his career.

Most importantly, his play has been steadily spectacular while other areas of the team struggled mightily early in the season with the lack of a ground game, an offensive line not yet cohesive and a defense that gave up too many fourth-quarter leads.
Roethlisberger has led game-winning fourth-quarter drives three times, bringing his total (including overtime and the postseason) to 30.

"He's a big reason why we've been in games and why we feel we can win any game," defensive end Brett Keisel said. "That's why we feel we can go to the Super Bowl every year, because we have a championship-type quarterback."

All kinds of dire predictions were made when the Steelers fired Bruce Arians and hired Todd Haley as his replacement at coordinator. Haley came with a reputation that he could be confrontational with his students. Roethlisberger, who considers Arians a friend, was naturally skeptical.

But he bought into the new offense with its high-percentage passes and short check-downs to halfbacks, the lack of deep throws and an increased importance in the ground game. He's thrived and survived in it, his sacks cut way down at 17.

"He's a big-time leader, a big-time competitor, a fourth-quarter killer," Mike Wallace said. "He's the toughest quarterback in the league. ... He picked up the new offense really fast. I feel it's time he gets the recognition he deserves."

Roethlisberger made his second Pro Bowl last season (he turned down a chance for a third after the 2009 season). He's ninth in MVP odds, according to Bovada (www.bovada.lv) at 20-1. Peyton Manning is the favorite at 2-1 followed by Matt Ryan (3-1), Tom Brady (6-1), Aaron Rodgers (7-1), Eli Manning (12-1), Arian Foster and Drew Brees (both 15-1) and J.J. Watt (18-1).
His teammates aren't buying it.

You see how valuable he is to our team, the plays he's able to make at 6-5, 245 pounds," Leftwich said. "Nobody else makes those type of plays. Nobody else his size is capable to do what he can do -- throw people off him all the time and make a play. Big guys can do that but then they can't move around enough to throw the ball 35 yards down the field to Emmanuel Sanders.

"He's a very unique football player, and I think sometimes by him being unique and the style he plays, he doesn't get enough credit for all the things he does right. He doesn't play the way people perceive the quarterback position to play.

"The great thing about him is he's never changed his game. He can't play someone else's game. If that comes out to winning two Super Bowls and be in three, you'd think people would look at that: Is he getting the job done or not? No one can say he's not. He's won 70 percent of his games."

And this year, he has elevated his own game in subtle ways -- the ways Haley has asked of him. He is also, again, among the most clutch players in the game. He leads all quarterbacks with a passer rating of 121.2 on third down. Tom Brady is next at 110.2.

"Sometimes he doesn't get mentioned with the elite quarterbacks for one reason or another," Keisel said. "We in this locker room consider him the best."

Reflected glory only goes so far
Scott Pioli won all kinds of honors when he was the personnel man for Bill Belichick in New England. Kansas City hired him as general manager to turn the team around, and he has done that by turning the franchise into a mess.

Pioli is another shooting star who gained his reputation working for Belichick and then failed on his own. Others include his current coach, Romeo Crennel, on his second failed job after the one he held with the Cleveland Browns; Charlie Weis at Notre Dame; and Josh McDaniels with the Denver Broncos. The most promising from the Belichick/Patriots tree is Bill O'Brien, who is off to a good start under difficult conditions at Penn State.

Things have gotten so bad in Kansas City just two years after the Chiefs were AFC West Division champs -- coached by Haley, who Pioli then fired during the following season -- that fans are booing their own team and may stop showing up for games, which is unheard of for one of the most loyal fan bases in the NFL.

A bad move rising?
If Jonathan Dwyer and/or Isaac Redman continue to pound out 100-yard games and the Steelers return to Rashard Mendenhall when he's healthy, it will rank among the more controversial decisions in a while at a skilled offensive position.

It will be reminiscent of that brilliant decision the coaching staff made in 2003 when it picked Amos Zereoue in training camp to bump Jerome Bettis out of his starting job. Or another in 2000 when Hines Ward was temporarily bumped from his starting job so they could install their two first-round picks, Troy Edwards and rookie Plaxico Burress, as the starting wide receivers.

Another one worth recalling came in 1992. With Neil O'Donnell nursing an injury toward the end of that season, Bubby Brister, pictured inset, guided the Steelers to a 4-2 record down the stretch. The Steelers earned a playoff seed and had a week off before the Buffalo Bills came to town. Bill Cowher decided to return to O'Donnell at quarterback and he obviously was either rusty or not ready and in Three Rivers Stadium the Bills drubbed the Steelers, 24-3, in Cowher's first playoff game.

It would be Brister's last game with the Steelers, and he went out the door saying about O'Donnell, "I can out-throw him, and outrun him."

GoFor7
12-18-2012, 03:03 PM
Why I think Haley's offense is better. This article came out the morning before the win against KC, and Ben's injury. I'd argue Ben's injury (still think he isn't right), as well as the injuries on the line, among other injuries, as well as the RBs and WRs fumbling - is what is masking Haley's offense - not the philosophy and calls. I indicated with bold some important points/stats and where this offense was heading before being decimated and getting the dropsies. Keep in mind that this is the offense that supposedly wasn't playing to anyone's strengths.
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/steelers/steelers-make-pitch-for-roethlisberger-as-mvp-661606/

Arians had to deal with injuries to the o-line during his tenure, and it still wasn't an excuse. Why should Haley be allowed to use that as an excuse? The offense was supposed to keep Ben healthy, it failed. No excuses. Reestablish a running game? It did that for three games, count 'em, three games. Maybe it was too early to proclaim the Steelers running game was back. Where are the points at? This offense doesn't score points because it's too damn worried about possession.

Face it, this offense is no better than last year's.

steelfury02
12-18-2012, 03:21 PM
Arians had to deal with injuries to the o-line during his tenure, and it still wasn't an excuse. Why should Haley be allowed to use that as an excuse? The offense was supposed to keep Ben healthy, it failed. No excuses. Reestablish a running game? It did that for three games, count 'em, three games. Maybe it was too early to proclaim the Steelers running game was back. Where are the points at? This offense doesn't score points because it's too damn worried about possession.

Face it, this offense is no better than last year's.

The injuries aren't an excuse. They are a reality. Bruce had to deal with injuries too, yes - but what did that have to do with 3rd and 1 and throwing it into a windstorm? What did it have to do with Green Bay's defense in XLV commenting on knowing exactly what we were going to do? Clay Matthews sure as hell knew David Johnson was coming to block for Mendy, and he blew right past him, blowing up the play. Mr. 3rd and 1 empty set or Mr. 3rd and 1, here comes the pull from David Johnson - gee, I wonder what the Steelers are going to do? Stale and predictable and did nothing to improve Ben. The offense regressed from 2009-to the time of his firing. I'd say the running game was doing just fine considering they actually practiced it, unlike Mr. Arians, who Max Starks even said didn't practice the run enough for it to be effective. Yea, our feature RB was injured too - so I'd say that's pretty damn good during a 3 game winning streak. The guy got shit-canned for a reason.

You Arians apologists keep on comparing 5 seasons to not even 1 complete season- very convenient. I'll ask you Arians apologists again - who do you want instead? Who would do it better? Cause Bruce Arians isn't walking through the door. Neither is Bill Cowher. Why don't you come up with one fact saying showing our offense would be better off with Arians over Haley? You can't. Typical yinzer knee-jerk reaction ? I'd say Pittsburgh does a pretty good job of not accepting the new guy and wanting the old one back when things aren't going well. Change is scary - but it had to happen for the greater good.

How you even compare the Indy situation to our own is mind boggling.

And oh yea, the defense looks like smoke and mirrors. Anyone want to fight me that the secondary getting lit up had nothing to do with off-the-street guys lining up for us? Pretty funny that Taylor goes out, and Chargers and Cowboys put up points. It isn't an excuse - it's reality. You can't keep hoping and praying that things will get better as more and more guys are having to aid the scrubs and drop into coverage. It is no fucking surprise that there was zero pressure.

GoFor7
12-18-2012, 03:36 PM
The injuries aren't an excuse. They are a reality. Bruce had to deal with injuries too, yes - but what did that have to do with 3rd and 1 and throwing it into a windstorm? What did it have to do with Green Bay's defense in XLV commenting on knowing exactly what we were going to do? Clay Matthews sure as hell knew David Johnson was coming to block for Mendy, and he blew right past him, blowing up the play. Mr. 3rd and 1 empty set or Mr. 3rd and 1, here comes the pull from David Johnson - gee, I wonder what the Steelers are going to do? Stale and predictable and did nothing to improve Ben. The offense regressed from 2009-to the time of his firing. I'd say the running game was doing just fine considering they actually practiced it, unlike Mr. Arians, who Max Starks even said didn't practice the run enough for it to be effective. Yea, our feature RB was injured too - so I'd say that's pretty damn good during a 3 game winning streak. The guy got shit-canned for a reason.

You Arians apologists keep on comparing 5 seasons to not even 1 complete season- very convenient. I'll ask you Arians apologists again - who do you want instead? Who would do it better? Cause Bruce Arians isn't walking through the door. Neither is Bill Cowher. Why don't you come up with one fact saying showing our offense would be better off with Arians over Haley? You can't. Typical yinzer knee-jerk reaction ? I'd say Pittsburgh does a pretty good job of not accepting the new guy and wanting the old one back when things aren't going well. Change is scary - but it had to happen for the greater good.

How you even compare the Indy situation to our own is mind boggling.

And oh yea, the defense looks like smoke and mirrors. Anyone want to fight me that the secondary getting lit up had nothing to do with off-the-street guys lining up for us? Pretty funny that Taylor goes out, and Chargers and Cowboys put up points. It isn't an excuse - it's reality. You can't keep hoping and praying that things will get better as more and more guys are having to aid the scrubs and drop into coverage. It is no fucking surprise that there was zero pressure.

7-7 doesn't lie. Arians went 10-6 in his first. Now Arians certainly had his faults, notably red zones, but the records don't lie.

7-7.

steelfury02
12-18-2012, 03:37 PM
7-7 doesn't lie. Arians went 10-6 in his first. Now Arians certainly had his faults, notably red zones, but the records don't lie.

7-7.

So let me just understand this The record is a direct connection to the capabilities of the OC and the play calling, and that alone?

GoFor7
12-18-2012, 03:39 PM
So let me just understand this The record is a direct connection to the capabilities of the OC and the play calling, and that alone?

It shows no improvement that's for damn sure.

steelfury02
12-18-2012, 03:45 PM
It shows no improvement that's for damn sure.

Gotcha.

GoFor7
12-18-2012, 03:48 PM
Gotcha.

I also find it funny that Haley does some of the same things Arians did that drove all of yinzer nation nuts, but he gets a pass. :chuckle:

teegre
12-18-2012, 03:53 PM
Indianapolis's success has less to do with Arians and a lot to do with the fact that Andrew Luck is the next level of QB.

There was Montana, and then Manning/Brady, and now there is Luck.

Luck has the strengths of all of those QBs, sans the weaknesses. As a rookie, he is phenominal: above where Manning was, for sure... and Manning picked the offense up quickly. Manning was given the entire play-book; so was Luck, and Luck is having success (whereas, Manning was 3-13). BB was given a scaled down offense (like he should have been given) and had great success... but, again, Luck has been given the entire offense (& still having success).

It's all about Luck.

HALEY vs. ARIANS
Haley's offense (just as Pittsburgh's season) has been hindered by a ton of fumbles and/or WRs not getting their feet in bounds.

As far as keeping BB healhty, Haley was doing just that: BB had been sacked less & hurried less than in years prior. BB's current injury was a fluke.

Speaking of the injury, BB being out for three games (plus the game when he returned from injury, where he looked "out of sorts") will affect the amount of points scored and/or a team's overall record.

Before the injury, the Steelers were 6-3 (a record that they have achieved EVERY year), but this year, BB was the best in the league on 3rd downs... and, again, this year, BB has been sacked less than in years prior.

steelfury02
12-18-2012, 03:56 PM
Could the offense be better? Sure. But, considering the deck Haley's been given and the constant reshuffling - it could always be worse.

Colts have a retractable roof right? They'll need it when Mr. Empty Set, Bubble Screen for the 7th time, Oops here comes the field goal unit again really gets cooking. They'll need to let all the shitty smell out.

GoFor7
12-18-2012, 04:04 PM
Indianapolis's success has less to do with Arians and a lot to do with the fact that Andrew Luck is the next level of QB.

There was Montana, and then Manning/Brady, and now there is Luck.

Luck has the strengths of all of those QBs, sans the weaknesses. As a rookie, he is phenominal: above where Manning was, for sure... and Manning picked the offense up quickly. Manning was given the entire play-book; so was Luck, and Luck is having success (whereas, Manning was 3-13). BB was given a scaled down offense (like he should have been given) and had great success... but, again, Luck has been given the entire offense (& still having success).

It's all about Luck.

HALEY vs. ARIANS
Haley's offense (just as Pittsburgh's season) has been hindered by a ton of fumbles and/or WRs not getting their feet in bounds.

As far as keeping BB healhty, Haley was doing just that: BB had been sacked less & hurried less than in years prior. BB's current injury was a fluke.

Speaking of the injury, BB being out for three games (plus the game when he returned from injury, where he looked "out of sorts") will affect the amount of points scored and/or a team's overall record.

Before the injury, the Steelers were 6-3 (a record that they have achieved EVERY year), but this year, BB was the best in the league on 3rd downs... and, again, this year, BB has been sacked less than in years prior.

Okay, so when anyone not named Arians is the OC and Ben gets hurt, it's a "fluke?" That's just utter silliness - and now it's turning into excuse making. The offense failed to keep him healthy. Missed 3 weeks. No middle ground in that regard.

As for scoring, Ben being there hasn't made the difference it should. The Steelers worry about time of possession and balance too much to score enough points. They only scored 30+ points once this season, and that was in a loss to Oakland.

As for the three game stretch where they had 100+ yards rushing, maybe that was the fluke? After the Giants game the running game has vanished, and guys were still healthy.

steelfury02
12-18-2012, 04:10 PM
Okay, so when anyone not named Arians is the OC and Ben gets hurt, it's a "fluke?" That's just utter silliness - and now it's turning into excuse making. The offense failed to keep him healthy. Missed 3 weeks. No middle ground in that regard.

As for scoring, Ben being there hasn't made the difference it should. The Steelers worry about time of possession and balance too much to score enough points. They only scored 30+ points once this season, and that was in a loss to Oakland.

As for the three game stretch where they had 100+ yards rushing, maybe that was the fluke? After the Giants game the running game has vanished, and guys were still healthy.

Good point on the running game post-Giants.

GoFor7
12-18-2012, 04:11 PM
Good point on the running game post-Giants.

Don't ruin this by agreeing with me....

teegre
12-18-2012, 04:15 PM
Okay, so when anyone not named Arians is the OC and Ben gets hurt, it's a "fluke?" That's just utter silliness - and now it's turning into excuse making. The offense failed to keep him healthy. Missed 3 weeks. No middle ground in that regard.

As for scoring, Ben being there hasn't made the difference it should. The Steelers worry about time of possession and balance too much to score enough points. They only scored 30+ points once this season, and that was in a loss to Oakland.

As for the three game stretch where they had 100+ yards rushing, maybe that was the fluke? After the Giants game the running game has vanished, and guys were still healthy.

A quarterback can be hurt on any given play. It only takes ONE play. Ergo, in order to keep the odds of the QB being injured, having him hit LESS is the key.

Less sacks = less hits = less chance for injury

The sack totals are down. Period.

QUESTION: You keep averring that "the Steelers worry about time of possession"... where did you hear that? read that? know that from? I have never heard anything about that being their primary goal. Link please...

I, on the other hand, aver that they are trying to coach BB, in order to make him a better QB... such as leading the league in third-down percentage. And, as anyone who knows football knows, third down is the key to a team's success: converting third downs & stopping the other team from converting third downs.

More third downs completed... by BB... via passing... despite some phantom "time of possession" doctrine. THAT is why Haley is better.

steelfury02
12-18-2012, 04:16 PM
Don't ruin this by agreeing with me....

I just about spit up my drink. Thank you:sofunny:

Alright - back on track - "I think your thoughts suck n' at" lol

Hawaii 5-0
12-19-2012, 01:59 AM
Steelers’ D Getting a Pass Again?

Dec 18

I was once told by a fairly ‘respected’ Pittsburgh Steelers’ writer that statistics don’t mean anything when talking football. Stats, he said, “were for Skip Bayless.” While I don’t necessarily disagree with that sentiment, there are however some numbers you just can’t avoid discussing and that number continues to center around ‘one.’

The Steelers’ defense was ranked number one in the league entering last week’s game in Dallas and also rated number one against the pass. Has the defense played well this year? Considering the problems on offense in recent weeks I’d say yes, but then there is Denver and Oakland and Tennessee and then Sunday in Dallas.

Fans can complain and make points about the injuries on Sunday and while those may not be completely thrown out, they cannot be an excuse. Every team deals with injuries. It’s the nature of the beast and you need to accept it.

Tony Romo completed 30 of 42 passes for 341 yards and two touchdowns. He did not turn the ball over either which is something he typically does once or twice per week. When you have young guys in the secondary you have to find ways to help them and that falls on the guys along the front seven. Unfortunately, the pressure applied by these guys was minimal and far too infrequent. Had ‘Jerry World’ had a grass field, Romo still would have had a clean jersey at the end of the day.

James Harrison rarely got pressure and LaMarr Woodley was as absent as a Super Bowl Trophy in Cleveland. Yes, Harrison still made plays and that can’t go unmentioned, but both men are paid extremely well to get to the other team’s quarterback and Woodley especially is falling woefully short.

The front three, which we know are not necessarily responsible for getting pressure have done little of that anyway. Brett Keisel and Ziggy Hood have had their moments but have been far too inconsistent. Cam Heyward is starting to become a disappointment in my mind. Two years in now and I have yet to see significant plays from him.

I’m still waiting for an explanation as to where Steve McLendon is? The guy who impressed last season and during the preseason continues to see far too few snaps in my opinion. That isn’t a knock on Casey Hampton, but McLendon needs more time on defense especially in passing situations.

What we have to realize is this defense is no longer ‘BlitzBurgh’ and anyone thinking it is has not watched this team this year or last for that matter. The speed on the edges is gone. Harrison and Woodley have never really been speed rushers anyway the way a Jason Gildon once was. Teams no longer worry about having to get rid of the ball quickly and they have chip-blocked less and less through the season.

So how does this defense have such a strong ranking then right? This is not as difficult to explain as you might think. First of all, the Steelers might be first in total defense but they are eighth in points allowed at 20.8 points given up per game. You know how the defense has been on the field a lot the last two weeks? Believe it or not, they are second in the league in terms of how much time they are on the field. That makes the 20 points given up per game even more glaring.

Perhaps the most disturbing stat for this defense is that they rank 28th in the league in takeaways. After last year’s dead-last rating, many of us thought that was just a hiccup but it is becoming a trend. In three of the last five seasons, the Pittsburgh defense has rated 23rd or below in takeaways. In the two years they were better, they were in the top 10.

Compare the Steelers’ defense to the top 10 in takeaways in 2012 and you’ll notice only two teams in that group that aren’t in the playoff hunt. There’s a correlation there and it can’t be denied. Teams that limit scoring and create turnovers are just as good as teams that have number one rankings.

Yes, health is always an issue as it is for every team, but this team relies far too much on letting other teams make mistakes rather than forcing them. The ‘bend-don’t-break’ mentality of Dick LeBeau is out of touch and no longer applicable with today’s game and especially with this team’s talent or lack thereof. The defense has to get younger and more importantly faster on the edges. If that means putting Woodley back to his down position at end that he played in college then so be it.

As troubled as this offense is, the defense isn’t exactly a model of perfection despite their ranking either. There is only one ‘number one’ we should be concerned with at the end of the season and that’s the number one team in the league, not defense. After all, where did the number one defensive ranking get us last year?

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/steelers_d_getting_a_pass_again/12463375

lipps83
12-19-2012, 09:36 AM
Steelers’ D Getting a Pass Again?

Dec 18

I was once told by a fairly ‘respected’ Pittsburgh Steelers’ writer that statistics don’t mean anything when talking football. Stats, he said, “were for Skip Bayless.” While I don’t necessarily disagree with that sentiment, there are however some numbers you just can’t avoid discussing and that number continues to center around ‘one.’......

What? Reality has no place on these forums.

Steelers defense is #1 and best in the league. The problem is Roger Goodell, not Dick Lebeau's antiquated scheme.

maddog78
12-19-2012, 10:16 AM
I posted this on another forum. The Steelers are on pace to match their total of 15 turnovers forced last year. These are the numbers forced by the last twenty Super Bowl winners, but it goes back even farther than that.

A team with a small play defense has never won a Super Bowl.

NYG - 31
GB - 32
NO - 39
Pit - 29
NYG - 25
Ind - 26
Pit - 30
NE - 36
NE - 41
Tam - 38
NE - 35
Bal - 49
STL - 36
Den - 30
Den - 31
GB - 39
Dal - 25
SF - 35
Dal - 28
Dal - 31

maddog78
12-19-2012, 10:17 AM
What? Reality has no place on these forums.

Steelers defense is #1 and best in the league. The problem is Roger Goodell, not Dick Lebeau's antiquated scheme.

LeBeau needs to adjust. Absent Harrison and Woodley consistently beating their men, which they haven't done, his defense is built on hoping the other team makes a mistake. QBs are getting better and rules are making it easier to complete passes than ever before.

We either need two elite pass rushers or a new scheme. I don't see any other way around it.

Hawaii 5-0
12-22-2012, 02:49 PM
Top-ranked Steelers defense lacking in big plays

By WILL GRAVES (AP Sports Writer) | The Associated Press
Thu, Dec 20, 2012

PITTSBURGH (AP) -- Every time a pass comes his way, Pittsburgh Steelers cornerback Keenan Lewis is faced with a choice: the ball or the man?

If Lewis chooses the ball, he knows he better be sure he can get a hand on it. If he chooses the man, Lewis knows he better bring the guy down, or else.

''You don't make that tackle, they score a touchdown on you and you might be coming out,'' Lewis said.

Lewis has proven to be a pretty shrewd decision-maker. His 21 pass breakups lead the NFL and he's rarely been beaten deep while serving as the backbone of a secondary that leads the NFL in fewest yards passing allowed.

The one thing Lewis hasn't done, is actually catch the ball. Then again, neither have the rest of his teammates on the league's top-ranked defense.

For all their responsible tackling, the Steelers (7-7) have lacked a certain menace this season, and it could cost them a playoff spot.

Heading into Sunday's game against Cincinnati (8-6), Pittsburgh ranks 27th in turnovers forced (13) and is tied for 23rd in sacks (27). Not exactly the formula that led the Steelers to three Super Bowl appearances - and two wins - in a six-season span from 2005 to 2010.

While the lengthy absences of safety Troy Polamalu, linebackers James Harrison and LaMarr Woodley and cornerback Ike Taylor have played a role in the drop, the Steelers insist there are plays to be made, they're just not making them.

''I've dropped a ball that hit me in my face against Kansas City,'' said safety Ryan Clark, who has three of Pittsburgh's seven interceptions. ''Keenan dropped one against Tennessee. (Larry) Foote's dropped balls. We've had opportunities and that's on us.''

Hall-of-Fame defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau isn't complaining. His job is to design schemes that slow opponents down. Getting the ball is a bonus.

''You can talk about a lot of statistics, but leading the league in yardage yielded is an important one,'' LeBeau said. ''Do we need more interceptions? Sure. We need more turnovers ... but every week we're trying to keep our football team in the game, keep the score in a manageable position.''

Something the Steelers have done as well as anyone in the league. The game-turning plays, however, have been sporadic. Pittsburgh is on pace for its fewest turnovers and sacks since LeBeau returned for a second stint as defensive coordinator in 2004.

Some of it is the byproduct of a defense in transition.

A unit that began the season with seven starters in their 30s now features a secondary with four cornerbacks - Lewis, Cortez Allen, Curtis Brown and Josh Victorian - 26 or younger. It's the same along the defensive line, where 26-year-old nose tackle Steve McLendon is now basically a co-starter with 35-year-old Casey Hampton. Ditto the linebackers, where 24-year-old Jason Worilds leads the team with five sacks.

The youth movement has forced LeBeau to tinker a bit with his game plan. The Steelers spend the early portion of the game letting the youngsters get their feet set before unleashing the complex blitzes that are LeBeau's trademarks.

''With the younger guys back there we hold off a little bit and kind of simplify and so guys can play a little bit faster and they kind of know what they're doing,'' Hampton said. ''At the same time when it's simple there really shouldn't be no big plays or anything like that.''

Big plays haven't killed the Steelers this season, but little ones. The proliferation of short passing attacks give the front seven less time to get to the quarterback and shorter routes mean fewer opportunities for defensive backs to get in front of the ball.

''You look at it we've probably been one of the best teams in the NFL this year taking away the deep ball,'' Lewis said. ''Teams ain't really trying to throw deep like that no more. When you don't have those plays, those short plays is (less) of a risk to make a mistake.''

The Steelers have allowed just 18 passes over 25 yards this season and opponents are averaging just 5.9 yards per pass attempt, the lowest in the league. Yet their inability to create turnovers has forced the offense to deal with long fields almost every time it gets the ball.

Clark pointed to a 34-24 loss to San Diego two weeks ago as proof that the defense needs to be more opportunistic. The Steelers held San Diego to three straight three-and-outs with the ball near midfield in the first half. Each time the Chargers pinned the Pittsburgh offense deep in its own end. Each time the Steelers ended up punting and the Chargers finally capitalized on the great field position.

''We weren't flipping the field because we didn't make a play, special teams didn't make play and the offense didn't make a play,'' Clark said. ''Flipping the field is a huge part of the play ... if you look at the games we lost, that's why we lost.''

Not exactly. The Steelers have committed 27 turnovers this season, seventh-most in the league. Those miscues have often put the defense in difficult situations, even if Clark and company refuse to use it as an excuse.

If Pittsburgh was coasting into the playoffs - as it did last year when it created just 17 turnovers - the lack of takeaways wouldn't be an issue. But the Steelers have dropped four of five and need to win out to play past Dec. 30. The season could come down to one or two tipped passes that turn into interceptions or one fumble that ends up with a guy in a black helmet on top of it.

''We definitely need to get more turnovers and sacks and things like that if we want to be successful,'' Hampton said.

NOTES: Lewis missed practice on Thursday with a hip flexor and is questionable ... Polamalu sat out practice for the second straight day but it was not injury related.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/top-ranked-steelers-defense-lacking-190806894--nfl.html;_ylt=A2KJ3Cau0NNQaEcAa.XwFAx.

GoFor7
12-22-2012, 03:58 PM
Top-ranked Steelers defense lacking in big plays

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/top-ranked-steelers-defense-lacking-190806894--nfl.html;_ylt=A2KJ3Cau0NNQaEcAa.XwFAx.

Just another example of playing scared. Too worried about what "could" go wrong rather than trying to make things happen and change the game. They "could" give up a big play if the DBs go for the ball and miss, but they "could" also make a huge, game-changing play. Championship defenses aren't just about yards, they are about splash plays. Turnovers and sacks. The Steel Curtain has become the Stat Curtain.

When you take a risk, you could fail. However, when you don't take them, you end up in the position the Steelers are in now. This team doesn't make game-changing plays on either side of the ball anymore, they just try to grind out a win playing close to the vest. When you play that style, you shouldn't be surprised if you end up somewhere around 7-9 and 9-7.

maddog78
12-22-2012, 06:17 PM
That article says a lot. Our guys play scared of making mistake for fear of getting benched, and LeBeau feels it's not his job to design a defense to take the ball away, just flip field position on every drive.

I'm ready for a change at DC.