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SteelersCanada
11-19-2012, 01:28 PM
We all need to take a collective breath and settle down. Every time we take a loss, the same threads come rolling around ...

Mike Tomlin Sucks! Fire him!

Mike Wallace is terrible! Cut him!

... and I think to myself, what? I understand frustration guys, I really do. Losing to the Ravens is never easy and always takes a toll. I mean, they're the fucking Ravens - who wants to lose to those pricks? But misplacing the blame and making ridiculous threads about who to fire and who to cut are just that - ridiculous. As a unit, this team is good. By good, I mean very good. Show me another team in the league built to be 6-4 after losing 3 pro bowlers, including the franchise quarterback and (arguably) the number one wide receiver. Couple that with the defensive captain and perennial play-maker on defense, and everyone thought this year would be terrible. Instead, overcoming adversity is what the Steelers do and once again they've shown it.

Our Defense is a Top Unit

Our defense is scary good right now. Torrey Smith had one catch for 7 yards. AJ Green had one catch for 8 yards - these are considered to be among the best wide receivers in the AFC, and they were non-factors. The way our secondary is working right now, I don't think there's a quarterback in the NFL who could succeed, they're just talented from top to bottom.

Early on in the year, we were calling for LeBeau to be fired and a new defensive scheme to be brought in. I'll admit, I was guilty of this too. Then, good ol' Dick proved once again why he's a defensive genius and the defense started to play lights out football. The secondary is number one in the league without Polamalu playing. I don't think that point can be stressed enough and instead, needs to have bells and whistles playing every time it gets mentioned. The mantra of next-man-up is a good one to have, but you can't replace guys like Troy. Will Allen stepped his game up and Ryan Clark is showing why he's probably the most underrated defensive player in the entire NFL. This unit isn't number one by "smoke and mirrors" (as people in this thread have tried to point out) or luck, they're just talented. Holding the Ravens to 3 points (excluding the turnover) after they put up 55 points and holding Ray Rice to 40 yards on 20 carries.

Mike Tomlin is a Top 3 Coach

We have an elite coach. By elite, I mean top 3. I only say top 3 because there's an argument to be made that Coughlin and Belichick are better coaches, but I wouldn't take either of them over Tomlin right now. You can criticize his "poor game management" or being too buddy-buddy with his players, but the simple fact of the matter is: he's been to two Super Bowls and won once. I'm not going to compare ex and current coaches which seems to be popular on this site. Tomlin is an excellent motivator, and the guys simply want to play for him. They're buying what he is selling, and it's working. I won't get into his winning % and how fast he got to 'x' amount of wins, because that isn't important. They're winning right now, and winning starts with the coaching staff.

This Offense Starts and Ends With Ben

It became painfully clear last night what Ben means to this team. This offense starts and ends, lives and dies, with Ben at the helm. If there was ever a case to be made for Ben being MVP, it was last night. Roethlisberger doesn't play pretty or put up flashy stats, but he knows how to win games and without him running the two minute drill last night, we didn't have a shot. I'll keep this short and sweet because we all know what he means to this team, but with 7 behind center, we always have a chance to win games.

The Mike Wallace Hate Needs to Stop

In the "official Mike Wallace sucks thread", Wallace is getting blamed for drops and fumbles, which ultimately led to our loss. Granted, he fumbled and it led to 3 points, but he's also our top wide receiver and our scheme isn't letting him play properly. I've used this in another thread but I think it's appropriate here: not letting Mike Wallace go deep and make plays on the ball is like having a Lamborghini and driving the speed limit with your hands at 10 and 2 - incorrectly. There's not a CB that can take him one-on-one in the entire NFL if Mikey decides it's time to go deep. He absolutely has weaknesses, like his inability to fight off double coverage and still make the "big catch", but he's still the top threat on this offense.

Also, he fumbled - it happens. Do you remember when Dwyer fumbled and it led to points against the Raiders? Where was the hate there? Where was the "official Jonathan Dwyer sucks thread"? There wasn't one. Why? Dwyer isn't being used as a scapegoat for the offense and Wallace is. He held out of training camp and it looks like a lot of us are still bitter about it, but it's time to move on. I won't get into why he held out or whether or not it was the right thing to do, but we're past the midpoint of the season and we need to look forward, not back. If we're going to criticize Wallace make it with valid points and complaints, not this bullshit of his attitude. I am a firm believer that Mikey is the future of this team and other teams are recognizing his talent level which is why he is commanding double teams on almost every play. He's our top receiver, let's not turn our back on him now.

Overall - We Have a Great Team

When this team gets healthy and we have Roethlisberger back - we're going to be a team that no one wants to play in December. With the way our defense has been playing and Woodley and Harrison are finally starting to get things going - this is a team that is built for a Super Bowl run. I'm confident and optimistic at this teams chances to bring home a title, but that title starts with getting Ben back.

On to Cleveland. :tt04:

Darkstorm05
11-19-2012, 01:34 PM
The Mike Wallace Hate Needs to Stop

In the "official Mike Wallace sucks thread", Wallace is getting blamed for drops and fumbles, which ultimately led to our loss. Granted, he fumbled and it led to 3 points, but he's also our top wide receiver and our scheme isn't letting him play properly.

I'm with you, except for this. He's not our top receiver. If he was, the scheme would already fit him. We threw deep to him a few times this year only to see him drop a ball that hit him in the hands. The scheme didn't cause that. He's a solid #2 situational receiver. Brown is our #1, and will be for years to come.

Brown was our #1 before we went to the current scheme, and he is our #1 after. We don't need to change our offense around to make sure everyone points to him as being a star. Wallace wants the offense to be changed to revolve around making him a star, because he can't do it otherwise. See the difference here?

Ricco Suavez
11-19-2012, 01:39 PM
I agree with the OP on nearly everything. I do not hate on MW, he is hurting his team with some lackluster effort and he is hurting his chance at a big payday. Just maybe we can get him back at a more reasonable signing offer than we thought originally. I still think he has the talent and without dreams of other teams big contract out there he can perhaps put his efforts more to the field.

DoctorCAD
11-19-2012, 01:50 PM
Agree on all but Wallace. He does suck and should not be re-signed next season. Trade him for a six-pack and a Subway sandwich, That's about all he is worth right now.

But that's only my OPINION.

TRH
11-19-2012, 01:58 PM
i agree - Tomlin is one of the best, if not the best coach in the NFL. Its absurd the things you hear about him around here. Most decisions he makes are for the best - then when something doesn't work out, people come out of the woodwork to be "backseat drivers".

On Wallace - i'm not sure i'd say it's "hate" on Wallace.
I just think most with any intelligence realize he's NOT one of the league's elite receivers (hell, he's not even our best receiver - thats easily Brown).
Critical drops, obvious loafing at points, some all-around cockiness, and a demand for a big, make that huge, payday, have all rubbed people the wrong way.
We know he's good. At times even 'very' good. But thats what he is - very good - not great.

Edman
11-19-2012, 01:59 PM
I don't hate Mike Wallace. But I think it's becoming quite obvious he's isn't our best WR, and thus, not worth the money.

Fire Arians
11-19-2012, 02:00 PM
1. Yes - Although I wish they could have gotten it together sooner this year, they are gelling rather nicely.
2. Yes - No complaints here
3. Yes - No argument here, without #7 we aren't winning #7
4. NO. Wallace deserves all the criticism he's getting by asking for an outrageous amount of money that he isn't worth. He is NOT our #1 and will never be until he starts working harder than our #1 WR (Brown)
5. Yes - With Ben healthy, we have all the pieces of a championship team. I'm not worried if he can be back at least 90% and we can lock a wildcard berth.

SteelCityMom
11-19-2012, 02:20 PM
Yeah, gotta agree on the general Wallace tone as well. I'm not one to jump on a fire so and so bandwagon...but he's rarely shown the kind of talent that we all know he's capable of. The only real reason it could be is he's pissed about the contract, cause we all know he's better than what he's showing. Prima donna's are not looked upon kindly by the Steelers, or their fans. We've got plenty of other talent at WR, that he can just take his act out the door.

I'm with you on all other points though.

SteelersCanada
11-19-2012, 02:37 PM
I like that one of our biggest problems right now on offense is which pro bowl receiver is better than the other. While I do maintain it's Wallace, I can certainly see the other side of that debate. I don't know that Wallace has fully adjusted to the playbook yet which can be credited to sitting out training camp. I do think, however, that the "one-trick pony" debate has been laid to bed. He might not be playing up to his potential right now, but I think that can be fixed after a year under Haley's system.

Getting back to defense, did you guys see the way Heyward played last night? If that's what we're going to see from him long-term, we're in good shape on our DLine.

steelbelieve
11-20-2012, 12:44 PM
We all need to take a collective breath and settle down. Every time we take a loss, the same threads come rolling around ...

Mike Tomlin Sucks! Fire him!

Mike Wallace is terrible! Cut him!

... and I think to myself, what? I understand frustration guys, I really do. Losing to the Ravens is never easy and always takes a toll. I mean, they're the fucking Ravens - who wants to lose to those pricks? But misplacing the blame and making ridiculous threads about who to fire and who to cut are just that - ridiculous. As a unit, this team is good. By good, I mean very good. Show me another team in the league built to be 6-4 after losing 3 pro bowlers, including the franchise quarterback and (arguably) the number one wide receiver. Couple that with the defensive captain and perennial play-maker on defense, and everyone thought this year would be terrible. Instead, overcoming adversity is what the Steelers do and once again they've shown it.

Our Defense is a Top Unit

Our defense is scary good right now. Torrey Smith had one catch for 7 yards. AJ Green had one catch for 8 yards - these are considered to be among the best wide receivers in the AFC, and they were non-factors. The way our secondary is working right now, I don't think there's a quarterback in the NFL who could succeed, they're just talented from top to bottom.

Early on in the year, we were calling for LeBeau to be fired and a new defensive scheme to be brought in. I'll admit, I was guilty of this too. Then, good ol' Dick proved once again why he's a defensive genius and the defense started to play lights out football. The secondary is number one in the league without Polamalu playing. I don't think that point can be stressed enough and instead, needs to have bells and whistles playing every time it gets mentioned. The mantra of next-man-up is a good one to have, but you can't replace guys like Troy. Will Allen stepped his game up and Ryan Clark is showing why he's probably the most underrated defensive player in the entire NFL. This unit isn't number one by "smoke and mirrors" (as people in this thread have tried to point out) or luck, they're just talented. Holding the Ravens to 3 points (excluding the turnover) after they put up 55 points and holding Ray Rice to 40 yards on 20 carries.

Mike Tomlin is a Top 3 Coach

We have an elite coach. By elite, I mean top 3. I only say top 3 because there's an argument to be made that Coughlin and Belichick are better coaches, but I wouldn't take either of them over Tomlin right now. You can criticize his "poor game management" or being too buddy-buddy with his players, but the simple fact of the matter is: he's been to two Super Bowls and won once. I'm not going to compare ex and current coaches which seems to be popular on this site. Tomlin is an excellent motivator, and the guys simply want to play for him. They're buying what he is selling, and it's working. I won't get into his winning % and how fast he got to 'x' amount of wins, because that isn't important. They're winning right now, and winning starts with the coaching staff.

This Offense Starts and Ends With Ben

It became painfully clear last night what Ben means to this team. This offense starts and ends, lives and dies, with Ben at the helm. If there was ever a case to be made for Ben being MVP, it was last night. Roethlisberger doesn't play pretty or put up flashy stats, but he knows how to win games and without him running the two minute drill last night, we didn't have a shot. I'll keep this short and sweet because we all know what he means to this team, but with 7 behind center, we always have a chance to win games.

The Mike Wallace Hate Needs to Stop

In the "official Mike Wallace sucks thread", Wallace is getting blamed for drops and fumbles, which ultimately led to our loss. Granted, he fumbled and it led to 3 points, but he's also our top wide receiver and our scheme isn't letting him play properly. I've used this in another thread but I think it's appropriate here: not letting Mike Wallace go deep and make plays on the ball is like having a Lamborghini and driving the speed limit with your hands at 10 and 2 - incorrectly. There's not a CB that can take him one-on-one in the entire NFL if Mikey decides it's time to go deep. He absolutely has weaknesses, like his inability to fight off double coverage and still make the "big catch", but he's still the top threat on this offense.

Also, he fumbled - it happens. Do you remember when Dwyer fumbled and it led to points against the Raiders? Where was the hate there? Where was the "official Jonathan Dwyer sucks thread"? There wasn't one. Why? Dwyer isn't being used as a scapegoat for the offense and Wallace is. He held out of training camp and it looks like a lot of us are still bitter about it, but it's time to move on. I won't get into why he held out or whether or not it was the right thing to do, but we're past the midpoint of the season and we need to look forward, not back. If we're going to criticize Wallace make it with valid points and complaints, not this bullshit of his attitude. I am a firm believer that Mikey is the future of this team and other teams are recognizing his talent level which is why he is commanding double teams on almost every play. He's our top receiver, let's not turn our back on him now.

Overall - We Have a Great Team

When this team gets healthy and we have Roethlisberger back - we're going to be a team that no one wants to play in December. With the way our defense has been playing and Woodley and Harrison are finally starting to get things going - this is a team that is built for a Super Bowl run. I'm confident and optimistic at this teams chances to bring home a title, but that title starts with getting Ben back.

On to Cleveland. :tt04:

You had me at hello, and right up to the point you starting commenting on Wallace. Sorry, he gave a half-arsed effort the other night that was deplorable considering the importance of the game. I guarantee you his teammates saw it on film. Still, like your attitude, stay positive!

steelfury02
11-20-2012, 12:54 PM
Defense top unit? agreed
Mike Tomlin is a top 3 coach? agreed
We need Ben back to seriously contend? agreed
Wallace hate will continue until he is either gone or stops giving us reasons to hate him. He is a #2 receiver - and should be paid, or not paid accordingly. We can win without him, and I believe we'll find a replacement in the draft. He has Santonio Holmes written all over him - except, he'll leave without anywhere near the accomplishment (SB MVP) Route running abilities, hands > pure speed.

We are a 6-4 team that would have been 7-3 with Ben at the helm. The team that beat the Giants is the team that can win #7. We need at least him and AB back, as well as the defense to continue to improve - especially in the turnover dept. We'll see. We are on a wild card route as of now, unless the Ravens have a huge meltdown.

Hope we can learn some lessons before we have to watch them pack it up and try to go to the big show via road

bornaSteelersfan
11-22-2012, 03:22 AM
There is a very good chance the Ravens will indeed have a meltdown. For all the praise they are given, they prove again and again that they are extremely inconsistent.

Rick5895
11-22-2012, 06:47 AM
I have to agree with almost everything the OP says here. Very good read. However, I disagree on Wallace. I certainly don't have hate for him, He is a Steeler and for me there is no "hate". But this guy held out of training camp rather than sign his tender. He wants "Fitzgerald" money, yet he is not playing to the level of what he desires.
It seems every game, Wallace fails to make a catch in a critical situation in the game, whether it be a third down or TD. The last game . that fumble was inexcusable, it was a third down play and would have been a 1st down. The lack of effort on a poor throw in the 4th was shameful That seems to happen every game. To be a number 1 receiver you have to step up and make those plays, Walace does make the odd great play but when he is needed he rarely answers the bell this season. 'm hopeful that changes and soon.
BTW Dwyer was benched for 2 games after that fumble vs the Raiders.

steeltheone
11-22-2012, 08:31 AM
I like that one of our biggest problems right now on offense is which pro bowl receiver is better than the other. While I do maintain it's Wallace, I can certainly see the other side of that debate. I don't know that Wallace has fully adjusted to the playbook yet which can be credited to sitting out training camp. I do think, however, that the "one-trick pony" debate has been laid to bed. He might not be playing up to his potential right now, but I think that can be fixed after a year under Haley's system.

Getting back to defense, did you guys see the way Heyward played last night? If that's what we're going to see from him long-term, we're in good shape on our DLine.

Pro Bowl Receivers? Brown is 42 catches 499 yards and 1 td...Thats Pro Bowl ?

Wallace is 42-563-6 with 123 yards coming against the Raiders backup DB's

SteelersCanada
11-22-2012, 12:51 PM
Pro Bowl Receivers? Brown is 42 catches 499 yards and 1 td...Thats Pro Bowl ?

Wallace is 42-563-6 with 123 yards coming against the Raiders backup DB's

Mike and Antonio have both been to the pro bowl, thus they're pro bowl receivers. Granted, AB went as a PR/KR, but he's been to the pro bowl. Also, it's a transition year for the team. Their numbers will be back up next year once Ben is more comfortable with the book and they have a year under their belt.

I do appreciate the feedback on here and I can certainly understand where all of you guys are coming from on Wallace. Maybe I'm being too lenient, but I still think this is a year for the team as a whole to adjust to Haley's book, thus the numbers are down. I'm glad I could make this a good read for you guys.

Cheers.

steeltheone
11-22-2012, 01:05 PM
Mike and Antonio have both been to the pro bowl, thus they're pro bowl receivers. Granted, AB went as a PR/KR, but he's been to the pro bowl. Also, it's a transition year for the team. Their numbers will be back up next year once Ben is more comfortable with the book and they have a year under their belt.

I do appreciate the feedback on here and I can certainly understand where all of you guys are coming from on Wallace. Maybe I'm being too lenient, but I still think this is a year for the team as a whole to adjust to Haley's book, thus the numbers are down. I'm glad I could make this a good read for you guys.

Cheers.

Reggie Wayne is in a new system and has a 1000 yards already with a rookie QB.

At this point in BR7 career, he is like Brady. He can throw to anybody. Paying big money to wideouts is a mistake.

BlaZeQuietly
11-22-2012, 01:14 PM
Wallace has not performed like a # 1 or # 2. Hes fast, IF he catches the ball and doesn't drop it he can run to the end zone very fast. He drops A LOT of passes and otherwise doesnt catch A LOT of "catchable" passes, just his facial expressions sometimes piss me off.

SteelersCanada
11-22-2012, 01:27 PM
Reggie Wayne is in a new system and has a 1000 yards already with a rookie QB.

At this point in BR7 career, he is like Brady. He can throw to anybody. Paying big money to wideouts is a mistake.

It's apples and oranges. Luck doesn't really have anyone else to throw to on that offense and the lack of a run game makes them a one-dimensional offense. The Steelers have more weapons and talented receivers than just one - Sanders, Brown and Wallace could be number one guys on almost any other team. Throw in guys like Heath, Cotchery and now Burress and the plethora of talent leads to spreading the ball out. Comparing young guys to a first ballot Hall of Famer like Reggie Wayne is a mistake.

Wide receivers are a dime a dozen - you're right. But, you can't buy chemistry and 'young money' has the best chemistry among the starting in the league.

steeltheone
11-22-2012, 09:44 PM
It's apples and oranges. Luck doesn't really have anyone else to throw to on that offense and the lack of a run game makes them a one-dimensional offense. The Steelers have more weapons and talented receivers than just one - Sanders, Brown and Wallace could be number one guys on almost any other team. Throw in guys like Heath, Cotchery and now Burress and the plethora of talent leads to spreading the ball out. Comparing young guys to a first ballot Hall of Famer like Reggie Wayne is a mistake.

Wide receivers are a dime a dozen - you're right. But, you can't buy chemistry and 'young money' has the best chemistry among the starting in the league.

Wayne, Avery and Hilton all have better or close to better stats the Steelers wideouts....the Steelers wideouts are good but not great. Ben will make any receiver look good.

I hope they become great, but as of now they are not.

steelfury02
11-23-2012, 09:14 AM
Wayne, Avery and Hilton all have better or close to better stats the Steelers wideouts....the Steelers wideouts are good but not great. Ben will make any receiver look good.

I hope they become great, but as of now they are not.

I think AB is well on his way to being great. I think he'll end up like Hines, where he has a collection of pro bowl seasons, probably a SB MVP - but won't have the monster stats or recognition because he is a Steeler receiver. However, I think once all is said and done, AB's collection of just "good seasons" will be enough to get him to HOF - a lot of time left to see where it goes with him though lol

A couple of different times this season after a drop, and then the recent fumble - Wallace was found to be actually smiling. The guy has "release me" written all over him. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell that he doesn't "get" being a Steeler. Funny thing is - Jerry Jones and Snyder have actually caught up in personnel philosophy a little - and are running out of patience with their overpaid personnel. Wallace might go just to go, even knowing there might not even be anyone out there willing to pay him. Hell, the Steelers might have already made up their mind on him. 10 games in, he sure seems like a lame duck to me.

steeltheone
11-23-2012, 09:51 AM
I think AB is well on his way to being great. I think he'll end up like Hines, where he has a collection of pro bowl seasons, probably a SB MVP - but won't have the monster stats or recognition because he is a Steeler receiver. However, I think once all is said and done, AB's collection of just "good seasons" will be enough to get him to HOF - a lot of time left to see where it goes with him though lol

A couple of different times this season after a drop, and then the recent fumble - Wallace was found to be actually smiling. The guy has "release me" written all over him. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell that he doesn't "get" being a Steeler. Funny thing is - Jerry Jones and Snyder have actually caught up in personnel philosophy a little - and are running out of patience with their overpaid personnel. Wallace might go just to go, even knowing there might not even be anyone out there willing to pay him. Hell, the Steelers might have already made up their mind on him. 10 games in, he sure seems like a lame duck to me.

Wow, you really like this guy. I hope you are right! This 400 yard year to date with 1 td makes me wonder.

harrison'samonster
11-23-2012, 10:31 AM
it's taken me a while, but I've come around to trusting and anticipating clutch plays by AB. I think he's already there, I just don't think he'll ever put up big numbers (much like Ward).

Edman
11-23-2012, 11:32 AM
Overall - We Have a Great Team

When this team gets healthy and we have Roethlisberger back - we're going to be a team that no one wants to play in December. With the way our defense has been playing and Woodley and Harrison are finally starting to get things going - this is a team that is built for a Super Bowl run. I'm confident and optimistic at this teams chances to bring home a title, but that title starts with getting Ben back.

This is one I can agree with.

The 2012 Steelers had their obvious hiccups (Oakland, Tennessee), but looking at their body of work, this has the look of a really dangerous team come the stretch, that is provided they get healthy and of course get Ben and Antonio Brown back. The Last Two Super Bowl Champions (2010 Packers, 2011 Giants), simply put got hot at the right time and rolled through the postseason. This team can do it. All of the Steelers' losses this year were in very close games. They took Denver in their own place down to the wire and they had to seal it with a pick 6.

The 2011 team I didn't get the same vibe from. In their losses to playoff opponents, they weren't close. Baltimore, Houston, and San Francisco clearly outmatched the Steelers. Two of those teams advanced to their respective conference title games. The 2011 team had one solid game against New England, and it wasn't that impressive. The 2011 Steelers finished 12-4, but they weren't exactly a 12-4 team. When they got to the postseason, it shouldn't have been a surprise they got Tebowed, when they were Flacco'd twice as Baltimore's O went buck wild on them. Shutting down the Ravens Monday despite losing tells me where this team is on the AFC Food Chain. This team can hang with anyone.

If (and that's a big if) everything falls into place, this team will make a run.

steelerchad
11-23-2012, 11:35 AM
agreed with all but Wallace.
He flat out gave up in last weeks game. His QB couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, so he stopped putting in the effort figuring the ball wouldn't be there anyway. That throw at his feet that he could hardly trouble himself to lean over to trap against the turf made me sick. The ball was way low, but watching the replay, I think he could have made a play on that ball and didn't even try. That's inexcusable. The toe tap in the endzone didn't provide much effort either. Drops and fumbles happen.

SteelersCanada
11-23-2012, 12:17 PM
This is one I can agree with.

I'm sorry you could only agree with one of the points, but you're right - this team has the feel (when healthy) they could make a strong run in the postseason.

Regarding Wallace - I don't know if he gave up. A couple buddies have mine brought up that there's a possibility he didn't want to play for any other quarterback except Ben and was pouting when he got injured. I don't know how true that is and I think it's total bullshit, but it did seem like the effort level in the last couple of plays were diminished for Wallace and I'll concede that.

However, it could have been that the throws and overall gameplan put both Leftwich and Wallace at a disadvantage. I don't know where the blame lies for the Ravens game, but I think calling Wallace out for it is a mistake. This is an offense in transition, and once they have a year and another offseason (with Mikey) they'll be firing on all cylinders.

Edman
11-23-2012, 12:58 PM
I'm sorry you could only agree with one of the points, but you're right - this team has the feel (when healthy) they could make a strong run in the postseason.

No I agree with the rest of them. The Defense has really got it together and will keep the Steelers in games, though not enough to win them, as they are still lacking in the turnover department.

This offense does begin and end with Ben, and it would also help to get Antonio Brown back to the fold as well.

Mike Wallace isn't a terrible player, but his place in the food chain on this offense is quite apparent. He's not our Best WR. It's questionable if he's even our 2nd best at this point. Since he's not our Best WR, he shouldn't be paid top-flight WR money. If he wants more, then he can beat it.

steeltheone
11-23-2012, 03:52 PM
it's taken me a while, but I've come around to trusting and anticipating clutch plays by AB. I think he's already there, I just don't think he'll ever put up big numbers (much like Ward).

Ward had 12,000 yards receiving and 85 td's...Ward had half the talent most wideouts had.

Clutch plays happen in the big games. Ward, hell even Santonio made them. Brown has 160 yards in 4 playoff games and no td's. Remember Demaryious Thomas ? 204 yards with tim tebow at QB against us in Jan? Thats clutch!

I'm sure he will come on, but he is nothing special yet. just a good wideout and a better return man.

austinfrench76
11-23-2012, 04:03 PM
Let's say this - AB has the look of someone that could be clutch. I think AB has made the most of his opportunities. And I agree that he could be Ward-Like and be here for the next decade. The jury is still out because he doesn't have the body of work. I hope they let Wallace walk, I just cannot see them wrapping that much money up in the WR posiition, and Make AB and Sanders their 1/2, with some vets and a draft pick rounding out the position. IMO

harrison'samonster
11-23-2012, 04:07 PM
I'm thinking more of 3rd downs as clutch plays. As far as Ward goes, he put up big numbers over his career, but he was never a fantasy football darling.

jiminpa
11-23-2012, 09:21 PM
I don't agree that Tomlin is top 3. I don't think he is all that good at all. He would have kept Arians, and eventually after years of failure, had to be publicly sent a message, and finally overridden. He has not addressed our horrible special teams in 6 years, (maybe he isn't given the choice though). He makes just plain stupid game day decisions, on par for his responsibilities as Arians was on offense.

I am also not a big fan of Mike Wallace this year. I had hopes when he came back and made some tough catches over the middle, but now he's not even catching a lot of the easy ones, and I'm not convinced he's as fast as he used to be either, although he looked it against the Ravens. I thought at the time that giving Brown the big money was the right decision. He has earned it, and Sanders makes things happen too. The two of them on the field together are hard to cover. Heath is Heath. Ben has stepped up his game and attitude this year too. I like it. If we can get everyone healthy and in rhythm watch out.

tanda10506
11-24-2012, 07:35 PM
I don't agree that Tomlin is top 3. I don't think he is all that good at all. He would have kept Arians, and eventually after years of failure, had to be publicly sent a message, and finally overridden. He has not addressed our horrible special teams in 6 years, (maybe he isn't given the choice though). He makes just plain stupid game day decisions, on par for his responsibilities as Arians was on offense.

I am also not a big fan of Mike Wallace this year. I had hopes when he came back and made some tough catches over the middle, but now he's not even catching a lot of the easy ones, and I'm not convinced he's as fast as he used to be either, although he looked it against the Ravens. I thought at the time that giving Brown the big money was the right decision. He has earned it, and Sanders makes things happen too. The two of them on the field together are hard to cover. Heath is Heath. Ben has stepped up his game and attitude this year too. I like it. If we can get everyone healthy and in rhythm watch out.

Agree with both. Tomlin is not a good coach IMO. I don't hold him responsible for the defense because I'm not sure he's given much control over it, but as mentioned, we'd still have Arians if it wasn't for Rooney. He makes bad game decisions as mentioned, and the one that hurts the most are the most obvious. Dwyer is the RB on our team who can run the ball. Rainey is the guy who can take it to the house on PR's and KR's. Yet Rainey returns only some of the kicks and our $8 mil WR returns our punts. All while Dwyer watches Mendenhall get accused of "dancing with the stars" by Chris Collinsworth. Punting to a guy who averages 40 yards a punt return is not a good idea when your kicking from your own goal line either.

As for Wallace, what is he doing for us? He drops it, he fumbles, he doesn't get open on short routes or when Ben is under pressure, so what is there to like? He's a bad ass deep guy, but we don't use him much for that, and he struggles with the rest. He's a good #2 and a great distraction, but he's not worth what he's asking for.

I agree with pretty much everything else. Defense is kicking ass and the team is pretty good all around. Injuries are the only thing that can hold us back.

SteelersCanada
11-25-2012, 04:56 PM
Key Things to Take Note of at 6-5

I was reading the comments in the Week 12 game thread, and I was just confused. I was dumbfounded that these were the same people commenting in this thread saying the things you guys were. I mean, I've grown accustomed to the Fire Tomlin! comments, but the amount of negativity over a week 12 loss was a little bit ridiculous.

Ben Roethlisberger

Let's start with the most obvious one: we need Ben back. And by need, I don't mean 'hey, it'd be nice to have him back' it's more like 'fuck me do we need Ben back.' He's the captain and leader of this team, but more importantly, he's the franchise quarterback. Without him, the offense falls apart. The Steelers live and die with Ben at the helm - but for us as Steelers fans to panic when he's not playing is the absolute stupidest thing I've ever heard. Which leads me to ...

Why Are We Panicking?

We lost with our third string quarterback. This is a guy that isn't even suppose to dress, let alone take any snaps in practice and more importantly - take game snaps. He's the third string quarterback for a reason - he isn't very good. Despite this, I see comments like 'HOLY SHIT BATCH SUCKS' .. Yet, there were threads asking for him to start over Leftwich. Batch isn't very good and that became blatantly obvious today, but he's a third string - he isn't supposed to play.

However, I'm still seeing comments saying "we're done. our seasons over." No, and it's not even close to being over. We're in the 6th seed right now despite the Bengals' win. We gave the Ravens a run for their money and, despite 7 turnovers, made Cleveland sweat. This is a team built on resilience and are going to come out swinging against the Ravens in M&T, hopefully with Ben at the helm.

There's still a lot of football to be played. We're 6-5. We're not cozy by any means, but if we string a couple of wins together we'd be set. Keep in mind, this is a weak and watered down AFC that will probably allow an 8-8 team into the playoffs. We won't be 8-8 by the end of the season. If Ben comes back, we're looking at running the table with this team. That being said, we need a run game.

We Don't Have a Number One Back on Our Roster

We just don't. We have a 6th round guy who our fanbase seems to love, despite being ineffective for most of the game and can't string together snaps to save his life. Then, we have "Redzone" Redman who is playing outside the Redzone which is a mistake. Finally, we have a fan favorite (kidding) in Mendenhall who is under performing this year and will probably be gone at the end of the season. What does this mean? 2013 is a deep class for a running back.

Dwyer isn't capable of being a number one back despite what a lot of you will say. He doesn't have the stamina or speed to be a legitimate threat in the NFL. Once the defense closes the middle, Dwyer becomes useless. He's great for short yardage, but he's not a number one back and it's really not even close. He's leading me to believe that he plays more consistently like the Dwyer we saw in the first four games, and his two 100 yard games were anomalies.

What does this mean? We have to draft one, or acquire one in free agency. There's guys like Kenjon Barner and Knile Davis who will be available in the third round and beyond, and we have to take a chance on one of these guys. They've shown more and are elite prospects in a very deep RB class. Knile Davis was a surefire top 15 pick prior to this season, but his injuries and weak OLine have severely damaged his stock. This is something we have to pounce on.

How Can We Blame Mike Tomlin?

Mike didn't turn it over 7 times. In fact, he tried his absolute best to limit the turnovers. Mendenhall fumbled, he sat. Then, Redman came in and fumbled and rode the pine. Everyone turned to Dwyer, and he fumbled and eventually sat. Finally, Rainey fumbled and was only kept in the game because we didn't have another back to turn to. How can this possibly be pinned on Mike Tomlin?

He's coaching a team missing 4 Pro Bowlers, one of which is the franchise quarterback. Despite this fact, he got his team prepared and gave a 7-2 Ravens team a run for their money, and a kickoff return let them win. Then, he turns to his third string quarterback and almost wins against Cleveland. Say what you want about Cleveland, but winning without 4 Pro Bowlers and 2 starting offensive linemen - in Cleveland - would have been impressive. It also would have been overlooked by many of you.

How can we possibly pin any of this on Tomlin? His defense played well and the offense didn't - an offense without Roethlisberger. The standard is the standard, but expecting Charlie to play even 1/10th of the way Ben does is unrealistic. He's a hell'uva coach, and one of the best in the NFL.

Mike Wallace

I was out driving after the game and saw a car accident which I solely blame on Mike Wallace. Pinning the loss on Mike Wallace is almost as ridiculous as saying that - which a lot of you were keen on doing. Sure, he caused an interception, but all 4 running backs fumbled, even your beloved Jonathan Dwyer. Then, Batch threw and absolutely atrocious ball that was somewhat in the vicinity of Wallace and he gets blamed for not fighting the corner off it. Do you guys see how ridiculous that sounds? I mean, how many different ways can we scapegoat Mike Wallace and not recognize the problem is not having Ben out there throwing to him. I understand it's easier to put a name and a face to our problems, but Mike Wallace isn't it.

We Have an Elite Defense

How many other defenses would have been able to hold a team to 20 points after giving it away 7 times? I don't care who you're playing, that's an impressive stat. What makes it more impressive is we had two turnovers in our red zone.

The defense shut down that passing attack for most of the game, even when they were constantly gassed because the turnovers on offense. They're resilient and kept bailing the offense out by shutting down the Cleveland offense.

A guy we've been waiting to see come alive all season finally did. James Harrison played like the James Harrison of 5 years ago, and absolutely embarrassed that Cleveland offensive line.

Overall We Still Have a Great Team

This team is still great. The way the defense is playing, all we need is Big Ben back and this team will get rolling. This team is finally starting to get healthy, and when they do, look out. Until then, let's chill with all the negativity. I understand frustration, but frustration only goes so far. The comments I saw were of a fanbase that was giving up - not feeling poorly after losing to a team we should have embarrassed.

This team has the potential to be a serious contender, all we need is 7 under center.

Tulsa
11-25-2012, 05:14 PM
There's guys like Kenjon Barner and Knile Davis who will be available in the third round and beyond, and we have to take a chance on one of these guys. They've shown more and are elite prospects in a very deep RB class. Knile Davis was a surefire top 15 pick prior to this season, but his injuries and weak OLine have severely damaged his stock. This is something we have to pounce on.



As a guy who has watched all season, you are dead on about Davis. He will be a steal.

madtowndrunkard
11-25-2012, 05:15 PM
Key Things to Take Note of at 6-5

I was reading the comments in the Week 12 game thread, and I was just confused. I was dumbfounded that these were the same people commenting in this thread saying the things you guys were. I mean, I've grown accustomed to the Fire Tomlin! comments, but the amount of negativity over a week 12 loss was a little bit ridiculous.

Ben Roethlisberger

Let's start with the most obvious one: we need Ben back. And by need, I don't mean 'hey, it'd be nice to have him back' it's more like 'fuck me do we need Ben back.' He's the captain and leader of this team, but more importantly, he's the franchise quarterback. Without him, the offense falls apart. The Steelers live and die with Ben at the helm - but for us as Steelers fans to panic when he's not playing is the absolute stupidest thing I've ever heard. Which leads me to ...

Why Are We Panicking?

We lost with our third string quarterback. This is a guy that isn't even suppose to dress, let alone take any snaps in practice and more importantly - take game snaps. He's the third string quarterback for a reason - he isn't very good. Despite this, I see comments like 'HOLY SHIT BATCH SUCKS' .. Yet, there were threads asking for him to start over Leftwich. Batch isn't very good and that became blatantly obvious today, but he's a third string - he isn't supposed to play.

However, I'm still seeing comments saying "we're done. our seasons over." No, and it's not even close to being over. We're in the 6th seed right now despite the Bengals' win. We gave the Ravens a run for their money and, despite 7 turnovers, made Cleveland sweat. This is a team built on resilience and are going to come out swinging against the Ravens in M&T, hopefully with Ben at the helm.

There's still a lot of football to be played. We're 6-5. We're not cozy by any means, but if we string a couple of wins together we'd be set. Keep in mind, this is a weak and watered down AFC that will probably allow an 8-8 team into the playoffs. We won't be 8-8 by the end of the season. If Ben comes back, we're looking at running the table with this team. That being said, we need a run game.

We Don't Have a Number One Back on Our Roster

We just don't. We have a 6th round guy who our fanbase seems to love, despite being ineffective for most of the game and can't string together snaps to save his life. Then, we have "Redzone" Redman who is playing outside the Redzone which is a mistake. Finally, we have a fan favorite (kidding) in Mendenhall who is under performing this year and will probably be gone at the end of the season. What does this mean? 2013 is a deep class for a running back.

Dwyer isn't capable of being a number one back despite what a lot of you will say. He doesn't have the stamina or speed to be a legitimate threat in the NFL. Once the defense closes the middle, Dwyer becomes useless. He's great for short yardage, but he's not a number one back and it's really not even close. He's leading me to believe that he plays more consistently like the Dwyer we saw in the first four games, and his two 100 yard games were anomalies.

What does this mean? We have to draft one, or acquire one in free agency. There's guys like Kenjon Barner and Knile Davis who will be available in the third round and beyond, and we have to take a chance on one of these guys. They've shown more and are elite prospects in a very deep RB class. Knile Davis was a surefire top 15 pick prior to this season, but his injuries and weak OLine have severely damaged his stock. This is something we have to pounce on.

How Can We Blame Mike Tomlin?

Mike didn't turn it over 7 times. In fact, he tried his absolute best to limit the turnovers. Mendenhall fumbled, he sat. Then, Redman came in and fumbled and rode the pine. Everyone turned to Dwyer, and he fumbled and eventually sat. Finally, Rainey fumbled and was only kept in the game because we didn't have another back to turn to. How can this possibly be pinned on Mike Tomlin?

He's coaching a team missing 4 Pro Bowlers, one of which is the franchise quarterback. Despite this fact, he got his team prepared and gave a 7-2 Ravens team a run for their money, and a kickoff return let them win. Then, he turns to his third string quarterback and almost wins against Cleveland. Say what you want about Cleveland, but winning without 4 Pro Bowlers and 2 starting offensive linemen - in Cleveland - would have been impressive. It also would have been overlooked by many of you.

How can we possibly pin any of this on Tomlin? His defense played well and the offense didn't - an offense without Roethlisberger. The standard is the standard, but expecting Charlie to play even 1/10th of the way Ben does is unrealistic. He's a hell'uva coach, and one of the best in the NFL.

Mike Wallace

I was out driving after the game and saw a car accident which I solely blame on Mike Wallace. Pinning the loss on Mike Wallace is almost as ridiculous as saying that - which a lot of you were keen on doing. Sure, he caused an interception, but all 4 running backs fumbled, even your beloved Jonathan Dwyer. Then, Batch threw and absolutely atrocious ball that was somewhat in the vicinity of Wallace and he gets blamed for not fighting the corner off it. Do you guys see how ridiculous that sounds? I mean, how many different ways can we scapegoat Mike Wallace and not recognize the problem is not having Ben out there throwing to him. I understand it's easier to put a name and a face to our problems, but Mike Wallace isn't it.

We Have an Elite Defense

How many other defenses would have been able to hold a team to 20 points after giving it away 7 times? I don't care who you're playing, that's an impressive stat. What makes it more impressive is we had two turnovers in our red zone.

The defense shut down that passing attack for most of the game, even when they were constantly gassed because the turnovers on offense. They're resilient and kept bailing the offense out by shutting down the Cleveland offense.

A guy we've been waiting to see come alive all season finally did. James Harrison played like the James Harrison of 5 years ago, and absolutely embarrassed that Cleveland offensive line.

Overall We Still Have a Great Team

This team is still great. The way the defense is playing, all we need is Big Ben back and this team will get rolling. This team is finally starting to get healthy, and when they do, look out. Until then, let's chill with all the negativity. I understand frustration, but frustration only goes so far. The comments I saw were of a fanbase that was giving up - not feeling poorly after losing to a team we should have embarrassed.

This team has the potential to be a serious contender, all we need is 7 under center.

I disagree with a couple points... I do think you can blame the HC for is the lack of focus and sloppiness.... sloppiness is IMO what you get from bad coaching or lack of preparation. I don't care who the team is, when I see consistent sloppy play, penalties, poor clock management, I generally point the finger at the coach.

Wallace is horrible. His mistakes hurt us often. He's dropping balls, he doesn't make plays on the ball like a good WR. IMO he can be blamed for 2 INT's. and YES I think you could actually suggest he had a LOT to do with this loss... not everything obviously...there were no shortage of mistakes...but if he can break up that jump ball and catch the other... it's a different game.

I seriously wonder why the coaching staff is so willing to give Rainey a long leash but seem very quick to pull Dyer.

The officials once again did their best to keep us down. Yea flags were being thrown everywhere but it was the crucial ones that burned the steelers the most.

I think our defense is damn good... in today's NFL you have to expect your offense to do something to help. 7 turnovers is laughable.

If Ben doesn't come back next week, our season is over. Period.

ChristianKustomz
11-25-2012, 05:55 PM
Totally. Penalties do not happen often if ever from a well disciplined team. When you play loose the effect is loss of yards and unnecessary penalties. Off sides and personal fouls should not even come into play IMO when your playing pro ball. Nice way to stay positive about Wallace but he'll be canned by the end of this season and let's hope Mendenhall will follow suit with Batch and Leftwich.

It's nice to hear some optimism but don't let it be confused with reality.

Steel_Bus_24
11-25-2012, 06:02 PM
If Ben doesn't come back next week, our season is over. Period

I don't know if I have the stomach to see Ben being nearly killed out there behind a rabble of a line that will consist of

Starks-Legursky-Pouncey*-Foster-Beachum

*Its only a matter of time now for Pouncey....Our OL collapse is in full swing

ChristianKustomz
11-25-2012, 06:23 PM
Right? I would be devastated to see Big Ben blithe the big one for us fans. It's just a game and it's not worth his life.

SteelersCanada
11-25-2012, 06:46 PM
They wouldn't let Ben play if there was still a serious risk of reinjury, let alone death. C'mon now.

jiminpa
11-25-2012, 06:46 PM
My above comments came before the clowns game. I have not been convinced of Tomlin's competency for years, and he is not doing anything to change my mind this year. He is passively riding Lebeau's defense and the talent level of the offense to create a facade of ability on his part, (like Gruden). He is not making any effort to address ongoing problems that are well within his job description. Our special teams have shown flashes of mediocrity and a bulk of just being horrible all the way back to Cowher, but under Tomlin problems with the fundamentals continue year after year after year. We tend to be deepest at the most useless positions, (did we really need 5 tight ends last year?), and have to panic when key positions sustain injuries, (no adequate backup QB, too few dressed linemen every week). And Tomlin just pulls out his cliche of the month cards and "takes responsibility" with words but not deeds. Someone needs to ask when in all of his taking responsibility he is going to make affective changes, and what he intends those changes to be, and not let him get away with yet another wordy, but vapid non-response, "we'll have to look at the film and address it then". He's had more than five seasons to look at film. If can't see that no one on the team knows what to do in punt and kick off coverage I don't think he'll notice it tomorrow either. When it's every week for almost six seasons it's not individuals, it's coaching. They fired the special teams coach, good, but the guy they replaced him with somehow managed to be worse. The kick in the head is that they interviewed Bobby April a few years ago and let him walk away. Six years of this many drive-killing holding penalties is on the coaching. Yeah, I know we get calls against us that other teams don't, but it goes beyond that. We actually do have more holds and sloppy formations than other teams.

OliverPoop
11-25-2012, 07:00 PM
I couldn't agree more jiminpa.

I am baffled when people make statements like Tomlin is a top 3 coach or "I would take him over Bill Belicheck." What fantasy world do you people live in? He's an average coach at best who got lucky for a couple seasons. Hell I'd take Bill O'Brien from Penn State over him. Yes I said it.