PDA

View Full Version : Earth to Steeler Nation - we are 8-3 if Ben doesn't get hurt


LayingTheWoodley56
11-26-2012, 05:07 PM
This is my first time logging on here since yesterday's admitted debacle, and all it takes is a quick scanning of the threads to see that everyone is reacting with predictable panic and pessimism.

THE ONLY REASON WE LOST THESE TWO GAMES IS BECAUSE BEN WAS INJURED!

And that would happen with any star quarterback in the NFL; if Aaron Rodgers got injured right now the Packers would be in the same or worse shape as we are. Same with Brees and the Saints, and so on and so forth. Look at what happened to the Bears last year when Cutler went down. The vehicle can't work without it's engine.

That being said, we still control our own fate in terms of our playoff destiny and given last Sunday's performance I would have to assume that Ben will play Sunday. The play of our defense the last two games has me very encouraged that we will recover and make a playoff run, hinging entirely on whether or not Ben returns.

To be honest, I don't even want to read any of what is being said. We were a mess Sunday, plain and simple. I expect something very different Sunday with #7 back under center.

AndyWitmyer
11-26-2012, 05:16 PM
This is my first time logging on here since yesterday's admitted debacle, and all it takes is a quick scanning of the threads to see that everyone is reacting with predictable panic and pessimism.

THE ONLY REASON WE LOST THESE TWO GAMES IS BECAUSE BEN WAS INJURED!

And that would happen with any star quarterback in the NFL; if Aaron Rodgers got injured right now the Packers would be in the same or worse shape as we are. Same with Brees and the Saints, and so on and so forth. Look at what happened to the Bears last year when Cutler went down. The vehicle can't work without it's engine.

That being said, we still control our own fate in terms of our playoff destiny and given last Sunday's performance I would have to assume that Ben will play Sunday. The play of our defense the last two games has me very encouraged that we will recover and make a playoff run, hinging entirely on whether or not Ben returns.

To be honest, I don't even want to read any of what is being said. We were a mess Sunday, plain and simple. I expect something very different Sunday with #7 back under center.

Aside from death and less sex after marriage, nothing in life is 100% certain. But, I do agree that had Ben been under center we would have had a very excellent chance to have won at least one of the last two...and a decent chance that we would have won both. And, I'd rate it as highly unlikely that we would have still lost these games. Still..we're talking about football - so - ya never know!

pittpete
11-26-2012, 05:18 PM
And the only reason we barely beat KC was because Ben was injured also...
Oh wait, Ben played in that game :-B

AndyWitmyer
11-26-2012, 05:22 PM
And the only reason we barely beat KC was because Ben was injured also...
Oh wait, Ben played in that game :-B

Yeah...my point exactly. Assuming that he's not hobbling around on a broken foot, Ben gives us probably the greatest chance of winning any given game. That still doesn't guarantee a win. Ben's my favorite QB, but he's played some seriously bad games in his time - some of these games were wins only because of a tremendous defensive effort (Ben's first Super Bowl anyone?)

desertsteel
11-26-2012, 05:41 PM
So who was playing QB when the Raiders and Titans beat us???

There's no guarantees in this league. You can't count your wins on paper or we'd be 14-2 every year.

Fire Arians
11-26-2012, 05:43 PM
You turn the ball over 8 times, even with ben in the lineup, and you'll probably still lose. The cleveland game you can not put solely on the quarterback. If we don't turn the ball over 8 freakin' times, I think we win that game.

Turnovers are the result of undisciplined football, that last game is on tomlin and his coordinators obviously not getting the team focused for that week

ZoneBlitzer
11-26-2012, 05:50 PM
Agreed with AndyWitmyer and desertsteel. Under Tomlin's watch this team has consistently struggles against weaker clubs. Given the current state, I would never pick the Steelers to ever blowout a below .500 club. I'll just pray from now on that they somehow get it done and no one gets hurt.

AndyWitmyer
11-26-2012, 06:03 PM
Agreed with AndyWitmyer and desertsteel. Under Tomlin's watch this team has consistently struggles against weaker clubs. Given the current state, I would never pick the Steelers to ever blowout a below .500 club. I'll just pray from now on that they somehow get it done and no one gets hurt.

Zone, I was just thinking that earlier! It's as though...when we face a team with a good record and a lot of hype, we pull off a win...but when we face a team that we're "expected to destroy"...well, the joke is usually on us. :chuckle:

Seriously, the Steelers probably fall for the textbook "trap game" more than most other teams in the NFL! Any time some analyst says: "the Steelers are going to have a very weak schedule", it scares the hell out of me!

Twentyvalve
11-26-2012, 06:22 PM
Those losses for on the D. Ben played great those games.

So who was playing QB when the Raiders and Titans beat us???

There's no guarantees in this league. You can't count your wins on paper or we'd be 14-2 every year.

AndyWitmyer
11-26-2012, 06:49 PM
"Those losses for on the D. Ben played great those games."

Agreed. It's been a strangely lopsided season. With the exception of maybe one game, this year's team has been entirely unbalanced: dropped balls by certain receivers aside, the offense *was* playing far better than anyone could have ever expected - in spite of all the speculation about our QB would probably struggle under Haley's "rosetta stone" playbook, Ben was actually playing some of his best football in years - in fact, before the injury, it seemed as though a career season was imminent.

Meanwhile, the D was seemingly in a tailspin. Despite having 4th quarter leads (leads that in previous seasons, we might have described as being "comfortable"), many of our earlier losses ended with an opposing team's late game rally going almost entirely unchallenged - they apparently forgot that a football game lasts four quarters.

Now, the D is playing much, much better - but what does it matter when you have an offense that can barely score? The run game has never come together in any consistent manner - and without Ben, the entire offense seems lost.

Don't get me started on special teams - with the exception Suisham, whose proven to be exceptionally accurate when he's not being forced to kick career long 53 yard field goals, they've been a trainwreck - the quality of our offense and defense aside, regardless of which one is playing well or which one is sucking,you can always count on our special teams to do their best to give our opponents a good chance to win.

StainlessStill
11-26-2012, 06:55 PM
We simply don't have control of this season right now, lads and gents. Earlier in the season, you could almost GUARANTEE the defense was going to get scorched in their bend but don't break defensive philosophy & blow a 4th QRT lead while the offense would be clicking in T.O.P and 3rd down conversions.

Now, it's flipped. Turnovers galore. No running game after an impressive 3 game stretch. Injuries OUT THE WHAZOO. People make me sick in blaming Tomlin about these losses. The dude has been dealing with musical chairs on this very soft football team for YEARS and STILL keeping the team contending with the yearly 3rd or 4th stringer getting playing time with each position!

Most coach's put their players in bad situations with a 100% healthy roster and would IMPLODE and CRUMBLE dealing with our injuries. Hats off to Tomlin for keeping the team in games and having guys ready to step up. You can't help the ball being put on the ground and Tomlin has had some coaching no-no's this season, but the dude is dealing with the impossible and still keeping his team in the game. That's impressive. We're LUCKY to have a coach like Tomlin!

AndyWitmyer
11-26-2012, 07:03 PM
I have some gripes with Tomlin, but count me in as a believer...for pretty much all of the reasons stated. And I've always been of the opinion that while coaches to do have an important role, it ultimately comes down to player execution. It's the players that almost always make or break a game. With our team of musical chairs, it really is impressive that we've been able to do as well as we have year in, year out.

Ricco Suavez
11-26-2012, 07:05 PM
Do not like to get into what if scenarios. But it is a fact that the Ravens have won all five contests Ben was not in.

AndyWitmyer
11-26-2012, 07:34 PM
Those losses for on the D. Ben played great those games.

Do not like to get into what if scenarios. But it is a fact that the Ravens have won all five contests Ben was not in.

I dunno, hypothetical situations can be fun. Given that statistic, it's rather obvious that had it been Ben throwing the ball, I'd say our odds of winning would have improved at least 10 fold. Without Ben...Ravens always win. It's hard to argue that with Ben, we could have won. In fact, we might have won handily.

Flacco played a piss poor game, and their team was definitely not all that impressive - given the shape of our team, they should have decimated us. They didn't. Even with an injured and mostly irrelevant Leftwich, they were still struggling to maintain a lead. So...considering that Flacco was only marginally better than Leftwich, I can only assume that Ben would have stomped all over them.

This has nothing to do with the Ravens being our primary rival, or sour grapes or anything like that - the Steelers certainly haven't been great, but the Ravens haven't really played much better. In fact, the Ravens are probably the worst number one team in the league....sure, their record looks impressive, but they've been walking a fine line between being 8-2, and having a record no better than ours - but hey, a win is a win, and the Ravens are sitting pretty regardless of their quality of play. They are a good team, not great - but I seriously think that they've been more than just a little lucky this year.

Anyway, even though the Ravens are all but certain to make the playoffs, I'm willing to bet that their "impressive record" will be quickly exposed for the sham that they are. One and done.

steeltheone
11-26-2012, 07:56 PM
Do not like to get into what if scenarios. But it is a fact that the Ravens have won all five contests Ben was not in.

Without BR7 this is a 8-8 team, if that. So this does not surprise me a bit.

Fire Haley
11-26-2012, 08:06 PM
Holy fuck! You think our record might be better if Ben never got hurt?

What a genius!


WE don't control shit, and the last thing anybody needs right is some holier-than-thou pom-pom waving cheerleader hiking up his skirts, prancing around, and blowing smoke up everybody's ass.

FanSince72
11-26-2012, 08:11 PM
And Lincoln would have lived longer if he hadn't gone to the theater.


Oh well!

stb_steeler
11-26-2012, 08:46 PM
You turn the ball over 8 times, even with ben in the lineup, and you'll probably still lose. The cleveland game you can not put solely on the quarterback. If we don't turn the ball over 8 freakin' times, I think we win that game.

Turnovers are the result of undisciplined football, that last game is on tomlin and his coordinators obviously not getting the team focused for that week

Exactly......You turn the ball over 8 times giving them good field position every time it happens.....What most are forgetting on here is, if we didnt turn it over at all its a totally different score....So tired of people blaming the coaches.....

BlaZeQuietly
11-26-2012, 09:04 PM
"If ifs and buts were candy and nuts"

MillerMania83
11-26-2012, 09:43 PM
Injuries, turnovers, coaching, etc...as the saying goes and it's so true, YOU ARE WHAT YOUR RECORD SAYS YOU ARE!!!!!

Jahodac
11-26-2012, 10:16 PM
Unfortunately, we're not 8-3. We're 6-5 and that's the reality. Even with Ben in, we still managed to lose to Oakland and Tennessee. Just because games we lost seem winnable, doesn't mean we would have one them if player X played/did not play. We can still make the playoffs, but if we do, we won't last long, Ben or not, we just have too many holes to fill with all the injuries this year. Play hard till the end, win or lose; playoffs or not.

tarasovic2
11-26-2012, 10:25 PM
well, ya, but BEN DID get hut. That's the point.

steelfury02
11-27-2012, 09:30 AM
well, ya, but BEN DID get hut. That's the point.

Is there a fast forward button, where the Colts have fallen on their ass, and the Steelers are sitting with the 5 seed, a 10-6 record, are out for blood, and are the team that no one wants to face? Let's live in that reality please :chuckle:

steeltheone
11-27-2012, 09:37 AM
And Lincoln would have lived longer if he hadn't gone to the theater.


Oh well!

And if my Aunt had a dick, she would be my Uncle!

steelfury02
11-27-2012, 09:42 AM
And if my Aunt had a dick, she would be my Uncle!

eww

LVSteelersfan
11-27-2012, 10:36 AM
Is there a fast forward button, where the Colts have fallen on their ass, and the Steelers are sitting with the 5 seed, a 10-6 record, are out for blood, and are the team that no one wants to face? Let's live in that reality please :chuckle:

What he said. I still think the Colts are going to falter down the stretch. It could be worse. We could be the Philadelphia Eagles. :flap:

But seriously folks. I never, ever give up on the Steelers until they are mathematically eliminated or lose in the playoffs. Although the last two weeks made it really hard to keep a positive attitude. I almost turned off the TV last week I was so mad at the turnover fest. Why can't our defensive coaches teach the Steelers D to strip the damn ball out of there like other teams do. There was one play in particular where one guy stood up the RB and two others were right there. They should have been raking and punching at that football instead of watching the tackle.

EbonySteel86
11-27-2012, 11:14 AM
[QUOTE=pittpete;1054568]And the only reason we barely beat KC was because Ben was injured also...
Oh wait, Ben played in that game :-B[
Don't forget Oak, and Tennessee. Lol!

torpedoshell31
11-27-2012, 11:28 AM
I saw Trent Dilfer on ESPN yesterday saying that the Steelers are going to win the Super Bowl. His reasoning is before Ben got hurt they were playing better than any team in the NFL. He says that if Ben comes back by the Chargers game the Steelers run the table right through the Super Bowl.

steelfury02
11-27-2012, 11:33 AM
I saw Trent Dilfer on ESPN yesterday saying that the Steelers are going to win the Super Bowl. His reasoning is before Ben got hurt they were playing better than any team in the NFL. He says that if Ben comes back by the Chargers game the Steelers run the table right through the Super Bowl.

That isn't out of the realm of possibilities. And for Trent Dillweed to say that? WOW. I usually don't care what he has to say - but there is some truth to that line of thinking. The Steelers that went into the KC game was the best team in football. We need Ben healthy, we need other leaders to step up and get this thang goin - and anything is possible.

steeltheone
11-27-2012, 06:12 PM
That isn't out of the realm of possibilities. And for Trent Dillweed to say that? WOW. I usually don't care what he has to say - but there is some truth to that line of thinking. The Steelers that went into the KC game was the best team in football. We need Ben healthy, we need other leaders to step up and get this thang goin - and anything is possible.

There is no way this team wins 3 or 4 road games in the playoffs. I'm just being a realist.

Hawaii 5-0
11-27-2012, 06:37 PM
There is no way this team wins 3 or 4 road games in the playoffs. I'm just being a realist.

I agree, not when we can't even beat the likes of the Raiders, Titans and Browns on the road.

teegre
11-27-2012, 06:43 PM
I saw Trent Dilfer on ESPN yesterday saying that the Steelers are going to win the Super Bowl. His reasoning is before Ben got hurt they were playing better than any team in the NFL. He says that if Ben comes back by the Chargers game the Steelers run the table right through the Super Bowl.

I completely agree.

tanda10506
11-28-2012, 03:46 AM
I agree, not when we can't even beat the likes of the Raiders, Titans and Browns on the road.

The team didn't have their shit together yet. We beat the Giants in their house and the refs spotted them 14 points. Also, if Ben plays well or Hoyer is given a chance and can just move the ball, we'll beat Baltimore in Baltimore. We'll also have a road test in Dallas which I think we will pass.

The worst case scenario would be playing 3 out of 4 games in either Baltimore, NE, Denver, or Houston. If there is not an upset then we will have to play 3 of those teams. But I'm going to stand by what I said after the Giants game, this defense is back and the offense will find a way to win. I'm not going to say this defense is up to 2008 standards, but I go by the eye test more then anything. Last years I test told me that we were the #1 defense cause we played nothing but poor teams, this years eye test shows me the spirit of Joey Porter is back in the hearts of a few of these guys, especially Ike and Timmons, and it's all about heart. Ward never caught a pass cause of speed, Miller never made a block due to his size, Harrison didn't get around guys twice his size because of nothing, it's all because of heart! We're playing with it, they just need to play with it in the games like Cleveland and Cincy too. I know it's more exciting to play certain teams at certain times, but every game is a playoff game starting vs SD.

tanda10506
11-28-2012, 03:56 AM
I completely agree.

Me too. That's why I'm saying let Hoyer play and take our chances. We were one play away from beating Baltimore, Ben would have put up 14 more against them if he was able to play, that's the kind of effort we're getting from the O line and the defense. Health is the the key issue, I say you rotate a lot of these guys in and out. Polamalu should play occasionally and be used as a mental weapon IMO, Colon should get a few extra breaks if possible. Health killed us last year and I think there is a chance to prevent it from happening again. I'd like to see all the injured (except Ben) get some playing time in Baltimore to get back "in the flow", and then have them 100% for SD.And that doesn't mean we concede the Baltimore game doing that either, if we can just find a way to run we win.

steelfury02
11-28-2012, 09:31 AM
The team didn't have their shit together yet. We beat the Giants in their house and the refs spotted them 14 points. Also, if Ben plays well or Hoyer is given a chance and can just move the ball, we'll beat Baltimore in Baltimore. We'll also have a road test in Dallas which I think we will pass.

The worst case scenario would be playing 3 out of 4 games in either Baltimore, NE, Denver, or Houston. If there is not an upset then we will have to play 3 of those teams. But I'm going to stand by what I said after the Giants game, this defense is back and the offense will find a way to win. I'm not going to say this defense is up to 2008 standards, but I go by the eye test more then anything. Last years I test told me that we were the #1 defense cause we played nothing but poor teams, this years eye test shows me the spirit of Joey Porter is back in the hearts of a few of these guys, especially Ike and Timmons, and it's all about heart. Ward never caught a pass cause of speed, Miller never made a block due to his size, Harrison didn't get around guys twice his size because of nothing, it's all because of heart! We're playing with it, they just need to play with it in the games like Cleveland and Cincy too. I know it's more exciting to play certain teams at certain times, but every game is a playoff game starting vs SD.

for what it's worth your post just really fired me up - it reminds me of some of the interviews with Franco when he reflects on all of his SB winning teams. He always talks about the spirit of the Steelers and the city of Pittsburgh in general - and what happened to the way the team played and the way the fans supported them after the immaculate reception - it changed their fortunes and he said from that moment forward - there was a spark within himself and his teammates and that they wouldn't be denied. He always said they talked about will and that no matter what - they weren't going to be denied. Noll even said after they won their third that they hadn't done anything and challenged them, bet them, they didn't have what it took to win four. Even after all the accolades of 1, 2,3, they still had that desire to do it again. I believe this team needs to get healthy, and then we have as great of a shot at it than anyone else. We have been hit with the injury plague the past two seasons. It is funny how the injuries are going to improve as the reg season comes down to the last 4 or 5 games. We need to be healthy along with that heart.

From what I've been reading - this defense is licking their chops, along with Ben, waiting for their chance with all hands on deck. I read on Harrison's face book page: "Not done. Not even close." These guys still want it, but we need to have some little injury prayers answered along the way. Here's hoping:drink:

teegre
11-28-2012, 04:58 PM
Me too. That's why I'm saying let Hoyer play and take our chances. We were one play away from beating Baltimore, Ben would have put up 14 more against them if he was able to play, that's the kind of effort we're getting from the O line and the defense. Health is the the key issue, I say you rotate a lot of these guys in and out. Polamalu should play occasionally and be used as a mental weapon IMO, Colon should get a few extra breaks if possible. Health killed us last year and I think there is a chance to prevent it from happening again. I'd like to see all the injured (except Ben) get some playing time in Baltimore to get back "in the flow", and then have them 100% for SD.And that doesn't mean we concede the Baltimore game doing that either, if we can just find a way to run we win.

I forwarded your post to Tomlin.

He replied: "Will do."

FrancoLambert
11-28-2012, 05:07 PM
I agree, not when we can't even beat the likes of the Raiders, Titans and Browns on the road.

Me too.
We need a lot of really good things to happen to contend for the AFC championship.
With the way we're banged up I don't see it happening. Too many areas are hurting.
What sucks is that if we were truly healthy this team could compete for it all.

teegre
11-28-2012, 05:20 PM
I agree, not when we can't even beat the likes of the Raiders, Titans and Browns on the road.

Do not fret: neither the Titans, Raidahs, nor Browns will be in the play-offs.

The play-offs have good teams... aginst whom, the Steelers flourish (see: the NYGiants game from a few weeks ago).

:wink02:

I am sort of being "tongue in cheek"... but, not really.

SteelersCanada
11-28-2012, 05:37 PM
For guys saying that we don't have a chance to run the table because we lost to weaker teams ... shit happens. The Patriots lost to the Cardinals - at home. The Giants lost to the Bengals, a team they should have blown out. The 49ers (the most overrated team in the NFL, in my opinion) lost to the Vikings and the Texans (second most overrated) almost lost to the Jags. Again, shit happens. This team lost to weaker teams but won 4 straight overcoming adversity and piss poor officiating. Ben was finding his groove, and the offense was finally starting to gel.

LayingTheWoodley56
11-28-2012, 05:41 PM
Holy fuck! You think our record might be better if Ben never got hurt?

What a genius!


WE don't control shit, and the last thing anybody needs right is some holier-than-thou pom-pom waving cheerleader hiking up his skirts, prancing around, and blowing smoke up everybody's ass.

Holier-than-thou? First of all, that is not the way my original post was intended to be at all. Telling me I'm wearing a skirt, mockingly saying I'm a "genius" and calling me a "pom-pom waving cheerleader" is also out-of-line.

I'm pointing out the obvious fact that seems to be lost on many fans who are hand-wringing over Tomlin, the fumble issues and everything else. It should come as no surprise to anyone that our season has fallen apart the last two games without our starting quarterback. Were he still playing, it is a very likely chance that we would be 8-3 and in the driver's seat for a possible first-round bye and at least one home playoff game. Unfortunately, and I know that "WE don't control shit," the case is that Ben got hurt and now we are in very unstable shape.

Take it easy, guy. I was only referring to the ridiculousness of every one losing their minds over every aspect of these two losses when they can both be solely whittled down to one single injury to our quarterback. Call me a cheerleader all you want, that is a fact.

Fire Haley
11-28-2012, 05:46 PM
so you want Ben to take the needle


I can respect that


Welcome aboard!:tt04:

jasonpirkle
11-28-2012, 05:58 PM
And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

Steelers>NFL
11-29-2012, 08:16 AM
I refuse to play the "if" game, and live with facts. Steelers are a good football team. And no more or less.

steelfury02
11-29-2012, 08:34 AM
first thing this morning - we are all Steelers faithful - so let's all chill on who is the bigger/most loyal/most knowledgeable fan

some ride the positive train, others hang themselves no matter how great things are looking, and some ride the emotional roller coaster and bitch, bitch, bitch, find someone to unload on, and bitch some more (me)

EVERYBODY STAY COO