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View Full Version : Antonio Brown overrated


steeltheone
11-28-2012, 05:23 AM
Mike Wallace gets slaughtered on these boards and sometimes for good reason! But Browns stats are very average, and certainly not number 1 wideout numbers.

Fire Haley
11-28-2012, 05:33 AM
not getting enough attention at home?

steeltheone
11-28-2012, 05:48 AM
Take off your homer glasses and look at the stats .... A no show in playoff games to date and numbers that resemble number 3 wideout.

I know he had a thousand last year. So did Wallace.

Bayz101
11-28-2012, 06:02 AM
No show in the playoffs? Brown made one of the greatest catches in Steelers playoff history and beat the Ravens with it. Wallace dropped Ben's last pass in the Super Bowl. Brown is the better all-around receiver, and it's no coincidence that our receivers are having trouble getting open without him on the field.

steeltheone
11-28-2012, 06:10 AM
4 games. ( 1 SB) 10 receptions 160 yards... No td's That's not what you expect out of a playmaker.

I know he is good, ( lots of good wideouts ) but, he has done nothing to suggest he is anymore than that.

steeltheone
11-28-2012, 06:13 AM
No show in the playoffs? Brown made one of the greatest catches in Steelers playoff history and beat the Ravens with it. Wallace dropped Ben's last pass in the Super Bowl. Brown is the better all-around receiver, and it's no coincidence that our receivers are having trouble getting open without him on the field.

Might have just a LITTLE something to do with the Quarterbacking the last few weeks, just a little!

teegre
11-28-2012, 08:11 AM
1. In those play-offs, Brown was not the starter; hence, his numbers SHOULD look like 3rd WR numbers (because they was exactly his role).

2. As the 3rd WR, he made the third down reception that sealed the victory in both the Ravens and the NYJets play-off games.

3. Admittedly, not enough TDs, but he converts third downs, which is extremely important.

4. He does not drop passes like Wallace does. Brown has better mechanics (Wallace catches with his chest). And, Brown is far, far better after the catch. Wallace's ONLY asset is his speed, but when one drops passes, it doesn't matter how fast one is.

lotas
11-28-2012, 08:37 AM
Stop looking on paper and focus on real time game situations. Brown comes through in the clutch, he gets open on big third downs, he converts to keep drives alive.

He is consistent, bottom line.


That catch teegre is referring to, 3rd and 19, Brown beats his guy and gets open downfield and reels it in against his helmet? Come on, enough said.

Wallace makes great highlight reels with his deep catches, but doesn't come through on the little plays when needed. I hope it changes, but I feel like it has more to do with attitude than anything.

lipps83
11-28-2012, 09:00 AM
4 games. ( 1 SB) 10 receptions 160 yards... No td's That's not what you expect out of a playmaker.

I know he is good, ( lots of good wideouts ) but, he has done nothing to suggest he is anymore than that.

You seem to forget he was only a starter for one playoff game. He was 4th string before that. If your expectations are that a 4th stringer light up stats in the paper, your expectations are too high.

lipps83
11-28-2012, 09:01 AM
1. In those play-offs, Brown was not the starter; hence, his numbers SHOULD look like 3rd WR numbers (because they was exactly his role).

2. As the 3rd WR, he made the third down reception that sealed the victory in both the Ravens and the NYJets play-off games.

3. Admittedly, not enough TDs, but he converts third downs, which is extremely important.

4. He does not drop passes like Wallace does. Brown has better mechanics (Wallace catches with his chest). And, Brown is far, far better after the catch. Wallace's ONLY asset is his speed, but when one drops passes, it doesn't matter how fast one is.

You sure he was 3rd? I am pretty sure he was behind Ward/Wallace/Sanders.

teegre
11-28-2012, 09:04 AM
You sure he was 3rd? I am pretty sure he was behind Ward/Wallace/Sanders.

Even more reason why his play-off numbers would look pedestrian.

[You are right; he was behind Sanders, in their rookie season.]

steeltheone
11-28-2012, 09:11 AM
He was the starter against Denver last year and had his typical 5 catches 70 yards and no td's game, when it mattered. The Broncos had a young receiver with 200 plus yards and won.

This season as a starter the " young money " AB has 490 yards receiving and 1 td. Those young guys from Cincy and Denver have a 1000 plus and many touchdowns.

I'm just not convinced he is a number 1.

torpedoshell31
11-28-2012, 09:14 AM
Don't forget Wallace's drop of a 50 yd pass in last years playoff loss in Denver. If he catches the ball it would have changed the whole momentum of the game. Instead he drops a wide open pass,we have to punt and Denver goes down the field and scores. It was a 14 point turn around in a game we ended up losing in OT.
Also don't forget that Brown was the Pro-Bowl punt returner last year and was voted the Steelers team MVP.

steelax04
11-28-2012, 09:18 AM
He sucks. We should cut him.

SteelersCanada
11-28-2012, 09:19 AM
I always have been and always will be a Wallace supporter, but c'mon now. AB has made a living so far off of clutch catches when he has to. 3rd-and-18 he converts for 50+. He sealed the game against the Jets and game in and game out he makes catches on third down to extend drives and keep a scoring play alive. He doesn't have number one receiver numbers for two reasons: he's not our number one receiver and this whole offence is getting acclimated to a new system where a catch for 5 yards is the norm. Next year when AB gets more comfortable and Ben doesn't go down (praying) you'll see his numbers shoot up. This isn't a down field vertical offence - we're a TOP offence and in that regard, AB had been solid.

steelfury02
11-28-2012, 09:23 AM
Why even compare the two?

You can talk about stats all you want - the guy is good as gone - regardless if you like or hate him.

AB played the game (both on and off the field) to the best of his abilities, and therefore, earned the contract. When the guys number is called - he executes in critical situations. People would be singing a different tune if the guy was having a bad season, but was "acting like a Steeler." He's not. Bye, bye Mikey:wave:

steeltheone
11-28-2012, 09:29 AM
Don't forget Wallace's drop of a 50 yd pass in last years playoff loss in Denver. If he catches the ball it would have changed the whole momentum of the game. Instead he drops a wide open pass,we have to punt and Denver goes down the field and scores. It was a 14 point turn around in a game we ended up losing in OT.
Also don't forget that Brown was the Pro-Bowl punt returner last year and was voted the Steelers team MVP.

Would never argue his return ability .

steeltheone
11-28-2012, 09:32 AM
I always have been and always will be a Wallace supporter, but c'mon now. AB has made a living so far off of clutch catches when he has to. 3rd-and-18 he converts for 50+. He sealed the game against the Jets and game in and game out he makes catches on third down to extend drives and keep a scoring play alive. He doesn't have number one receiver numbers for two reasons: he's not our number one receiver and this whole offence is getting acclimated to a new system where a catch for 5 yards is the norm. Next year when AB gets more comfortable and Ben doesn't go down (praying) you'll see his numbers shoot up. This isn't a down field vertical offence - we're a TOP offence and in that regard, AB had been solid.

He had 1 catch for 14 yards and no td's in that Jets game. I never argued he was not good or " solid" he is just not a number 1 or game breaker.

steelfury02
11-28-2012, 09:33 AM
I'll ask this question: Is Mike Wallace a liability on the field now? Would you rather have someone else without as much talent but that will fight that much harder? He wasn't getting much separation when AB was in there. Give him the Ravens game and see if he can turn some short throws into big gainers, after that - let's see Ben's chemistry with Plax.

The idea ain't that crazy.

steelfury02
11-28-2012, 09:35 AM
He had 1 catch for 14 yards and no td's in that Jets game. I never argued he was not good or " solid" he is just not a number 1 or game breaker.

steeltheone - I understand what you are saying - but what makes a number 1 or game breaker for the Steelers? I see the Steelers WR corps differently than most teams. I think the collective unit is what can make them great, rather than just one guy. Basically, the variety of weapons is what was making the Steelers the most dynamic team heading into the KC game - a ton of weapons, where no one guy has to be the hero - but all contribute to moving the chains and scoring. Hell - #81 was starting to see some touches before Ben went down - so was #46.

steeltheone
11-28-2012, 09:46 AM
steeltheone - I understand what you are saying - but what makes a number 1 or game breaker for the Steelers? I see the Steelers WR corps differently than most teams. I think the collective unit is what can make them great, rather than just one guy. Basically, the variety of weapons is what was making the Steelers the most dynamic team heading into the KC game - a ton of weapons, where no one guy has to be the hero - but all contribute to moving the chains and scoring. Hell - #81 was starting to see some touches before Ben went down - so was #46.

I honestly believe a team with a franchise QB and especially one in Haley's system will generate numbers regardless.

I don't want to " dump on AB" I like him and I believe he is good and will get better and better. I just see everybody ragging on Wallace, when this group as a hole has been good but not great.

steelfury02
11-28-2012, 09:52 AM
I honestly believe a team with a franchise QB and especially one in Haley's system will generate numbers regardless.

I don't want to " dump on AB" I like him and I believe he is good and will get better and better. I just see everybody ragging on Wallace, when this group as a hole has been good but not great.

I can agree - there is always room for improvement - I would still argue that Wallace's contributions have been minimal. Teams were starting to double Brown over Wallace and Wallace still can't get open. Wallace needs to prove that this speed is more of an asset than it has been. I really hope Wallace ends the season well upon Ben's return - for his sake. I will be shocked if he is here - and I'm not sure I want him if I see the same effort. Why keep him around when that is like having one less WR on the field?

defence
11-28-2012, 09:58 AM
You got to be kidding right?? Since Brown went out with injury; have you not noticed the offence has struggled?? And that was before ben got hurt. If Wallace was a number 1; why hasn't he stepped up as one. Sanders completely outplayed him last week and Cotchery was too before he got hurt. Sometimes; you got to look past all those numbers and stats and look at the flow of the offence. With Brown; this offence opens up receptions for everyone because he is dangerous. Wallace; please!! I love his speed and if he wanted to stay for a million and a half would love to keep him. But he isn't worth nowhere near what he thinks he's gonna get. Speedsters are a dime a dozen; we will get another wallace somewhere in the future.

lipps83
11-28-2012, 09:59 AM
I honestly believe a team with a franchise QB and especially one in Haley's system will generate numbers regardless.

I don't want to " dump on AB" I like him and I believe he is good and will get better and better. I just see everybody ragging on Wallace, when this group as a hole has been good but not great.

I would agree with your point if Wallace didn't disappear in the 2nd half last season and then ask for Fitzgerald money, hold out, and then half-ass it pretty much this whole season.

Do number 1 receivers routinely drop ever other pass that hits their hands?

steelfury02
11-28-2012, 10:01 AM
You got to be kidding right?? Since Brown went out with injury; have you not noticed the offence has struggled?? And that was before ben got hurt. If Wallace was a number 1; why hasn't he stepped up as one. Sanders completely outplayed him last week and Cotchery was too before he got hurt. Sometimes; you got to look past all those numbers and stats and look at the flow of the offence. With Brown; this offence opens up receptions for everyone because he is dangerous. Wallace; please!! I love his speed and if he wanted to stay for a million and a half would love to keep him. But he isn't worth nowhere near what he thinks he's gonna get. Speedsters are a dime a dozen; we will get another wallace somewhere in the future.

we'll get another one in this year's draft IMO - they might be a half step slower than Wallace, but with better hands - which is far more valuable

I dump on Wallace because he has SOOOO much potential. He could scorch the Steelers receiving and TD record if he dropped the attitude and became a student of the game, making sure his fundamentals and effort were at the top of his list, letting his play dictate the contract instead of hopin and wishin cause what he he did compared to other receivers. They could have kicked him to the curb already - but they didnt. He is blowing his last chance.

Cherinko
11-28-2012, 10:06 AM
Antonio Brown is nobody amazing. Dependable starter perhaps but I wouldn't call him pro bowl material or a once in a generation talent. He only has 3 career receiving TD's. The love you see for Brown is mostly an effect of Wallace's holdout. Wallace became the bad guy and people needed a hero to put him down. And on that matter Wallace hasn't played well either.

defence
11-28-2012, 10:08 AM
we'll get another one in this year's draft IMO - they might be a half step slower than Wallace, but with better hands - which is far more valuable

I dump on Wallace because he has SOOOO much potential. He could scorch the Steelers receiving and TD record if he dropped the attitude and became a student of the game, making sure his fundamentals and effort were at the top of his list, letting his play dictate the contract instead of hopin and wishin cause what he he did compared to other receivers. They could have kicked him to the curb already - but they didnt. He is blowing his last chance.

I agree with you. He has the potential to be great. In any sport; there is always one term. "You can't teach speed". Man; we know he has it. But when you have a cement block as a brain; what can you do. Instead of sulking and playing like a pissed off shit head; he should have shown what he is really worth. But you got to ask; the guys in a contract year; do you really believe he's that stupid to be playing this poorly because he's ticked off with the steelers. I don't buy it. He is who he is. What you see on the field is Mike Wallace. He is absolutely no student of the game or he would have flourished like Brown and now Sanders are doing.:drink:

SteelersCanada
11-28-2012, 10:08 AM
He had 1 catch for 14 yards and no td's in that Jets game. I never argued he was not good or " solid" he is just not a number 1 or game breaker.

He had one catch for 14 yards because he was behind Wallace, Ward and Miller in terms of depth. Granted, Miller is a TE but he may as well be a receiver to this team. That one catch also sent us to the Super Bowl which is how you have to look at it.

Again, he's not a number one receiver right now because Wallace is. He's not the top priority and instead is running the underneath routes. Comparing him to guys on Denver and New England is a huge mistake. They run down field, vertical offenses so they have huge stats. People are putting way too much emphasis on stats. The simple fact of the matter is, he hasn't had his chance at being a number one receiver. He doesn't have the same speed as Wallace, but has shown better hands and the ability to get open. I might be Mikey's biggest fan, but I'll concede that every time.

Judging AB this quickly - as a number 2 receiver no less - is a mistake.

JeromeBetties63
11-28-2012, 10:11 AM
Well, this thread has been clearly answered. No, he is not over-rated. The guy who posed it has been soundly thumped. Close the thread.

steelfury02
11-28-2012, 10:15 AM
VAntonio Brown is nobody amazing. Dependable starter perhaps but I wouldn't call him pro bowl material or a once in a generation talent. He only has 3 career receiving TD's. The love you see for Brown is mostly an effect of Wallace's holdout. Wallace became the bad guy and people needed a hero to put him down. And on that matter Wallace hasn't played well either.

who is amazing? To me - Jordy Nelson,Victor Cruz, Wes Welker are the only WRs that come to mind that have helped their team get a shot to win the Super Bowl outside of AB. They do have more accomplishments than him - I know where AB stands - but he is our most clutch player.

lloydwoodson
11-28-2012, 10:25 AM
I agree that Antonio Brown is not a good choice for number one receiver. I agree that Wallace opens up the field for him and allows him to flourish. I love Brown's attitude but Wallace has unique ability and it is unfortunate he has a poor attitude. Unfortunately, Wallace will be gone at the end of the year and he will have to be replaced by a high draft pick or hopefully a free agent.

Over the last 3 years Wallace has 24 tds and Brown has 3 tds. If you claim Brown is the better number one receiver you are lying to yourself because your feelings were hurt when Wallace held out. I salute the poster for holding an unpopular but true opinion. To the rest of you, try not to let being overly emotional get in the way of making an obvious decision.

lipps83
11-28-2012, 10:32 AM
He had one catch for 14 yards because he was behind Wallace, Ward and Miller in terms of depth. Granted, Miller is a TE but he may as well be a receiver to this team. That one catch also sent us to the Super Bowl which is how you have to look at it.

That doesn't matter that he was behind these guys and sometimes the 4th or 5th option on a play.

He should have had 80 catches, 1200 yards, 10 TDs. According to these guys.

:noidea:

steelfury02
11-28-2012, 10:42 AM
That doesn't matter that he was behind these guys and sometimes the 4th or 5th option on a play.

He should have had 80 catches, 1200 yards, 10 TDs. According to these guys.

:noidea:

I don't give a shit what his stats are. Catch the fucking ball and make an effort to come back to it when it isn't thrown to you 100% perfectly. Especially do it to convert, in crucial situations, and late in the season - something he hasn't done consistently enough. That would be fine if he was actually GIVING A SHIT. He doesn't. You can put TD stats and equate number of yardage = good to great receiver. It doesn't matter - you can't count on him anymore. That is intangible, but is far more important.

SteelersCanada
11-28-2012, 10:43 AM
That doesn't matter that he was behind these guys and sometimes the 4th or 5th option on a play.

He should have had 80 catches, 1200 yards, 10 TDs. According to these guys.

:noidea:

Point me to a number two receiver in a brand new system playing without his franchise quarterback while also missing games himself that will get those numbers. It's ok, I'll wait.

No one is saying that. Brown isn't getting those numbers because he's not our number one receiver. In fact, Wallace almost had those exact numbers last year - something to take into consideration.

Terminator
11-28-2012, 10:48 AM
I'll be honest, I have said some shit about Wallace in the past few weeks, but the more I think about it, the more I don't want him to go. We have not had a receiver with the kind of speed and deep threat that he has in a long ass time. I really don't see us replacing him with anyone better.

Emmanuel Sanders has really stepped it up, but he is not better than Wallace. Antonio Brown is much better when it comes to YAC and crucial 3rd drive conversions, but his red zone threat level is pretty damn low.

steelfury02
11-28-2012, 10:50 AM
we won 2 SBs without that speed - don't need his shit

Fire Haley
11-28-2012, 11:08 AM
Take off your homer glasses and look at the stats .... .

stats are for losers

I can see with my own eyes what he brings to the TEAM on the field

stb_steeler
11-28-2012, 11:19 AM
Pay the Man..............
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk184/abriolamp/Steelers%20PC%20NFT/pgh_steelers.jpg

MDSteel15
11-28-2012, 11:23 AM
He was the starter against Denver last year and had his typical 5 catches 70 yards and no td's game, when it mattered. The Broncos had a young receiver with 200 plus yards and won.

This season as a starter the " young money " AB has 490 yards receiving and 1 td. Those young guys from Cincy and Denver have a 1000 plus and many touchdowns.

I'm just not convinced he is a number 1.

He is also out with an injury! All of you forgotten he has also been out kick and punt returner!!!

StainlessStill
11-28-2012, 11:28 AM
4 games. ( 1 SB) 10 receptions 160 yards... No td's That's not what you expect out of a playmaker.

I know he is good, ( lots of good wideouts ) but, he has done nothing to suggest he is anymore than that.

You realize he didn't even see the field in 95% of the 4 games he played in the post-season, right? You know he was our 6th WR in Super Bowl XLV, right? You know he was our 4th WR last year until late in the season, right?

And after all that, he still had one of the most clutch catch's against his helmet on 3rd and 19 against Baltimore in '10 to send us off to the Championship game. He's had VERY FEW chances to really do anything in the playoffs. His career is JUST BEGINNING so this thread is absurd as it gets! BTW: 5 catch's for 70 yards is good production.

Get Ben back healthy, along with AB's scat-like style and this offense is ALL AROUND.

lipps83
11-28-2012, 11:29 AM
Point me to a number two receiver in a brand new system playing without his franchise quarterback while also missing games himself that will get those numbers. It's ok, I'll wait.

No one is saying that. Brown isn't getting those numbers because he's not our number one receiver. In fact, Wallace almost had those exact numbers last year - something to take into consideration.

I agree with you. I was being sarcastic. Sorry if it didn't come across correctly. I guess I could have worded it differently.

lipps83
11-28-2012, 11:30 AM
I don't give a shit what his stats are. Catch the fucking ball and make an effort to come back to it when it isn't thrown to you 100% perfectly. Especially do it to convert, in crucial situations, and late in the season - something he hasn't done consistently enough. That would be fine if he was actually GIVING A SHIT. He doesn't. You can put TD stats and equate number of yardage = good to great receiver. It doesn't matter - you can't count on him anymore. That is intangible, but is far more important.

I was talking about Brown, not Wallace. Unless you are referring to Brown?

Lokki
11-28-2012, 11:31 AM
Mike Wallace gets slaughtered on these boards and sometimes for good reason! But Browns stats are very average, and certainly not number 1 wideout numbers.

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/7/11/411f198c-5e9f-4a6a-8d13-9b50db85fbd0.jpg

Lokki
11-28-2012, 11:35 AM
Antonio Brown is much better when it comes to YAC and crucial 3rd drive conversions, but his red zone threat level is pretty damn low.

Everyone in the NFL and watching the NFL knows that our red zone threat is Heath Miller. However with Plax in the mix now, he can be a big target in the red zone as well.

lardlad
11-28-2012, 12:11 PM
I seem to remember Suggs saying last year the one they were most worried about was Brown. Not Ben, not Wallace and not even Miller. Not saying he is better than anyone of those guys, but they schemed around shutting him down because he kills opponents on 3rd down. Sure he isn't the best receiver in the history of the NFL but he is by far the best on the Steelers roster right now.

I think what Steeler fans recognize with Brown is that he does all this with less talent than other receivers. He is quick but not fast, he is not tall, he isn't very physical, he does have good hands, but he plays with a lot of heart and will catch the ball anywhere. If the ball isn't right in Wallace's hands, he seems disinterested. At least that is the perception, right or wrong. These things won't show up in stats, that is where the gap is between his stats and his worth.

Besides that, I think the bad opinion of Wallace is more about disappointment than anything. I think people expected a whole lot more, and it is perceived (again right or wrong) that he is allowing talent to be wasted.

Edman
11-28-2012, 12:21 PM
Arguing with a Mike Wallace supporter is like talking to a wall. You're not getting anywhere. Mike Wallace is the reason why It's more important to WATCH the game, and not Fantasy Football Land.

desertsteel
11-28-2012, 12:24 PM
Haters are gonna hate... that's all this thread is about. 1000 receiving yards and 1000 return yards are not good enough for the OP.... well that speaks more to the OP's intelligence level than anything else. Obviously, the Pro Bowl voters know a thing or two about exceptional play.

Lokki
11-28-2012, 12:25 PM
I think what Steeler fans recognize with Brown is that he does all this with less talent than other receivers. He is quick but not fast, he is not tall, he isn't very physical, he does have good hands, but he plays with a lot of heart and will catch the ball anywhere.

That also describes Wes Welker. I don't think anyone here would complain if we brought Welker in. He's not listed as #1 in NE either, but you know damn well that Brady is looking at Wes & Gronk first.

steeltheone
11-28-2012, 12:34 PM
You realize he didn't even see the field in 95% of the 4 games he played in the post-season, right? You know he was our 6th WR in Super Bowl XLV, right? You know he was our 4th WR last year until late in the season, right?

And after all that, he still had one of the most clutch catch's against his helmet on 3rd and 19 against Baltimore in '10 to send us off to the Championship game. He's had VERY FEW chances to really do anything in the playoffs. His career is JUST BEGINNING so this thread is absurd as it gets! BTW: 5 catch's for 70 yards is good production.

Get Ben back healthy, along with AB's scat-like style and this offense is ALL AROUND.

So let me get this right ... You want to pay a guy 8 million a year to give you 490 yards and 1 touchdown in 8 games all with BR 7 ??? Those are not good enough for that money.

His performance as well as Wallace was not good enough in Denver last year.

LVSteelersfan
11-28-2012, 12:37 PM
Ridiculous thread. I really, really have wanted Wallace to step it up as the season goes along. He just seems to get worse and worse instead. We lost to the damn Clowns because he let one bounce off his hands to be intercepted. He has dropped pass after pass after pass this season. A number one wide receiver catches every ball thrown his way if it hits him in the hands. Brown catches those passes. Wallace, not so much. I am very ambivalent about Mike Wallace right now. He can stay or he can leave. I could care less either way. He is not doing himself any favors right now. Brown is not overrated. He is not the number one receiver and he is making the catches a number two is supposed to. And some.

lipps83
11-28-2012, 12:38 PM
Arguing with a Mike Wallace supporter is like talking to a wall. You're not getting anywhere. Mike Wallace is the reason why It's more important to WATCH the game, and not Fantasy Football Land.

That is an excellent point you make. So much is made about numbers in todays game and not a players actual ability and what they actually do on the football field.

Troy Aikman put up very pedestrian numbers in his day, but everyone knew how excellent a QB he was. Today, I am sure some would call him a 'bust' since he only threw more than 20 TDs in a season once and went over 3000 yards 4 or 5 seasons in his entire career.

lloydwoodson
11-28-2012, 12:39 PM
ANTONIO BROWN HAS 3 TDS IN HIS CAREER.

BRANDON MARSHALL HAD 3 TDS IN WEEK 9.

Honestly, it is like all the idiots in the world congregated on one forum. Antonio Brown is a hard worker and a great football player. He is not a true number one receiver. Brown is an excellent slot/possession WR. Brown is not going to beat double teams with dominant physical play.

No one is holding Brown to the same standard as Wallace. People dump on Wallace for not being a top 5 WR. I have never heard Brown even MENTIONED in the same sentence as top 5 WRs. So why the special treatment? Could it be that Wallace held out in pre-season and you're all a bunch of whining, snivelling pussies?

Brown and Wallace are both good WRs. Wallace is better. End of story.

steelfury02
11-28-2012, 12:39 PM
I was talking about Brown, not Wallace. Unless you are referring to Brown?

no - got the prob with Wallace - I guess I wasn't sure - so just putting my two cents in yet again :flap:

Danny136200
11-28-2012, 12:44 PM
I honestly believe a team with a franchise QB and especially one in Haley's system will generate numbers regardless.

I don't want to " dump on AB" I like him and I believe he is good and will get better and better. I just see everybody ragging on Wallace, when this group as a hole has been good but not great.

Everybody is ragging on Wallace for good reason. dropped passes this season, lazy play sometimes.

Antonio Brown has earned his money, he has made great third down plays this season, clutch catches in the playoffs, and he is a much better route runner than Wallace. It also seems like that Ben and Brown have a better rapport than Ben and Wallace, which is vital.

Say what you want about his stats, I'd rather have Brown than Wallace.

ETL
11-28-2012, 12:45 PM
People get so extreme when comparing players

How about this: I'd take Wallace back next year at the same price they paid Brown.
I like both players and if the are both on the field at the same time, they make each other play better

Why does it always have to be one player sucks and the other is a superstar?

lipps83
11-28-2012, 12:45 PM
So let me get this right ... You want to pay a guy 8 million a year to give you 490 yards and 1 touchdown in 8 games all with BR 7 ??? Those are not good enough for that money.

His performance as well as Wallace was not good enough in Denver last year.

Absolutely. He was in the top 15 in the NFL in receptions before he got hurt. And that's playing 2nd fiddle to Wallace. He also returns punts.

He also is clutch on 3rd down, probably one of the best in the league on 3rd down. That doesn't reflect on Fantasy Football Website.com, which by now I am sure is what you are looking at when making your argument.

Sorry you drafted him and are not happy with your investment.

steeltheone
11-28-2012, 12:48 PM
Everybody is ragging on Wallace for good reason. dropped passes this season, lazy play sometimes.

Antonio Brown has earned his money, he has made great third down plays this season, clutch catches in the playoffs, and he is a much better route runner than Wallace. It also seems like that Ben and Brown have a better rapport than Ben and Wallace, which is vital.

Say what you want about his stats, I'd rather have Brown than Wallace.

If that rapport is so good, why did he average 5 catches a game with Ben thru the first 8 weeks?

lloydwoodson
11-28-2012, 12:48 PM
Arguing with a Mike Wallace supporter is like talking to a wall. You're not getting anywhere. Mike Wallace is the reason why It's more important to WATCH the game, and not Fantasy Football Land.

Stats are numbers that reflect production on the field. Stats matter. Is it a coincidence that Jerry Rice holds every major career receiving record and is considered the best WR of all time? Or do Rice's stats not matter? Can I say Santonio Holmes is the greatest WR of all time? He made one of the best catches I have ever seen to win Superbowl XLIII he must be the best. If you think Rice is better please explain why without statistics- this could be his hands, fluidity in his hips or maybe the way he holds his mouth. Has there ever been a WR who caught more than 100 passes not make the Probowl?

Did you watch the Giants game? The Steelers don't beat the Giants without Wallace.

lipps83
11-28-2012, 12:51 PM
ANTONIO BROWN HAS 3 TDS IN HIS CAREER.

BRANDON MARSHALL HAD 3 TDS IN WEEK 9.

WHO CARES?

I don't care if Brown, Wallace, Miller, Sanders, Dwyer, Redman, Mendenhall or whoever else scores the TD.

I really don't. What matters is that they score.

When they get in the red zone and going to pass, Ben is always going to look for Wallace or Miller first. They are usually going to be his first reads in those situations.

I am starting to wonder if some of you actually are watching the game, or are just mad because you are losing in fantasy football and have Brown on your team and mad that you drafted him.

Terminator
11-28-2012, 12:54 PM
I am starting to wonder if some of you actually are watching the game, or are just mad because you are losing in fantasy football and have Brown on your team and mad that you drafted him.


:sofunny::toofunny:

Danny136200
11-28-2012, 12:55 PM
ANTONIO BROWN HAS 3 TDS IN HIS CAREER.

BRANDON MARSHALL HAD 3 TDS IN WEEK 9.

Honestly, it is like all the idiots in the world congregated on one forum. Antonio Brown is a hard worker and a great football player. He is not a true number one receiver. Brown is an excellent slot/possession WR. Brown is not going to beat double teams with dominant physical play.

No one is holding Brown to the same standard as Wallace. People dump on Wallace for not being a top 5 WR. I have never heard Brown even MENTIONED in the same sentence as top 5 WRs. So why the special treatment? Could it be that Wallace held out in pre-season and you're all a bunch of whining, snivelling pussies?

Brown and Wallace are both good WRs. Wallace is better. End of story.

Seriously, would you want the Bears' receiving corps, or the Steelers'?

steeltheone
11-28-2012, 12:55 PM
Absolutely. He was in the top 15 in the NFL in receptions before he got hurt. And that's playing 2nd fiddle to Wallace. He also returns punts.

He also is clutch on 3rd down, probably one of the best in the league on 3rd down. That doesn't reflect on Fantasy Football Website.com, which by now I am sure is what you are looking at when making your argument.

Sorry you drafted him and are not happy with your investment.

If you can't reason that 490 yards and 1 td thru 8 games is real average, when his franchise QB has tossed it 316 times then i guess we will have to agree to disagree.

lipps83
11-28-2012, 12:55 PM
Stats are numbers that reflect production on the field. Stats matter. Is it a coincidence that Jerry Rice holds every major career receiving record and is considered the best WR of all time? Or do Rice's stats not matter? Can I say Santonio Holmes is the greatest WR of all time? He made one of the best catches I have ever seen to win Superbowl XLIII he must be the best. If you think Rice is better please explain why without statistics- this could be his hands, fluidity in his hips or maybe the way he holds his mouth. Has there ever been a WR who caught more than 100 passes not make the Probowl?

Did you watch the Giants game? The Steelers don't beat the Giants without Wallace.

Jerry Rice is the greatest receiver of all time. Antonio Brown is the 2nd receiver on the team and just moved into that role halfway through last season.

Not a good comparison.

steeltheone
11-28-2012, 12:58 PM
Seriously, would you want the Bears' receiving corps, or the Steelers'?

Brandon Marshall jerk or not is a top 10 wideout. The Steelers are better as a group.

lipps83
11-28-2012, 01:01 PM
If you can't reason that 490 yards and 1 td thru 8 games is real average, when his franchise QB has tossed it 316 times then i guess we will have to agree to disagree.

I didn't say that wasn't average. That's an average of 61 yards a game and would put him at about 1,000 for a full season.

THAT'S PRETTY DAMN GOOD FOR YOUR 2ND STRING RECEIVER.

LVSteelersfan
11-28-2012, 01:04 PM
I don't hate Wallace. I hate the fact that he is underachieving. It is inexcusable to drop the passes he has been dropping. I think most savvy football fans realize that Brown is a possession receiver. He is not a number one but Wallace is not living up to expectations as a number one receiver. Every game we lost was partially his fault from dropping wide open passes. How many TDs has he fumbled away this year and how many dropped passes right in his hands on third down have caused us to punt the ball?

He has made very few splash plays this year. Wallace does not even belong in the same sentence as Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald (his problems are all QB related) Reggie Wayne, Roddy White, AJ Green, Brandon Marshall, Victor Cruz, Demaryus Thomas, Julio Jones, Vincent Jackson, Marcus Colston, Percy Harvin etc. All of these players are game breakers all the time. Not just the 3 or 4 times in 11 games that Wallace has been. Your obsession with Wallace is absurd.

SteelersCanada
11-28-2012, 01:07 PM
ANTONIO BROWN HAS 3 TDS IN HIS CAREER.

BRANDON MARSHALL HAD 3 TDS IN WEEK 9.

This is flawed logic. Who is Cutler supposed to throw to other than Marshall? He's the only option Cutler has while Ben has 4 very real, very dangerous targets. Why are we comparing a third year guy to Brandon Marshall, an already established clear cut number one receiver? Also, why are most of you talking like Brown is our number one receiver - he isn't. And to the guy complaining about Brown only having 490 yards - he hasn't played in two weeks. He would have been over 1000 yards again this year had he played the whole season with Ben.

Jesus, people find the stupidest things to complain about. :doh:

Edman
11-28-2012, 01:07 PM
ANTONIO BROWN HAS 3 TDS IN HIS CAREER.

BRANDON MARSHALL HAD 3 TDS IN WEEK 9.

Honestly, it is like all the idiots in the world congregated on one forum. Antonio Brown is a hard worker and a great football player. He is not a true number one receiver. Brown is an excellent slot/possession WR. Brown is not going to beat double teams with dominant physical play.

No one is holding Brown to the same standard as Wallace. People dump on Wallace for not being a top 5 WR. I have never heard Brown even MENTIONED in the same sentence as top 5 WRs. So why the special treatment? Could it be that Wallace held out in pre-season and you're all a bunch of whining, snivelling pussies?

Brown and Wallace are both good WRs. Wallace is better. End of story.

Brandon Marshall is on his third team in his career. So if Brandon Marshall is so good, how come he can't stick to a roster? Please get out of here with that crap.

Arguing with a Mike Wallace supporter is like talking to a wall. They continue to spit on clear evidence that Mike Wallace is not a top-flight WR and is NOT the best WR on this team. Thank god you guys aren't in the Steelers Front Office.

If Mike Wallace is the best WR on this team, this team should have no issue with Brown out. Wallace's production has not only stagnated, it's gotten considerably worse. Before you bring up the Ben excuse. Sanders and Miller are still bringing their best, and seem to be the only guys on Offense who are stepping up in Ben's absence.

It more than mere numbers and statistics. It's intangibles. The ability to do everything. Doing everything possible to help the team out beyond fancy touchdowns. Where is Mike Wallace in the big, clutch moments when we need him? In the big games? I'll tell what he's doing. He's dropping balls and fumbling in our own zone(Ravens game).

Mike Wallace has continued to demonstrate that not only is he NOT that dependable guy, but he's a LIABILITY in that situation. When the going gets tough, Wallace checks out.

lloydwoodson
11-28-2012, 01:08 PM
I don't play fantasy football. i don't like to hear about fantasy football. Listening to grown men go on and on about statistics and who they are playing on "their" team is excrutiating.

In society in general I get tired of people who believe whatever the fuck they want to believe regardless of evidence. People consistently have a paradigm based on their emotional responses to past events and they do anything and everything to twist information and facts to fit that paradigm.

Fact: Mike Wallace has EIGHT TIMES as many career tds as Antonio Brown.

Fact: Every Arians critic said yards don't mean shit put some POINTS ON THE BOARD.

Result: Fans overlook the history of Wallace and Brown's respective scoring production to declare Brown the winner based on Brown's total yards or Wallace's "attitude."

Fact: Brown is playing on a 5 year 42 million dollar salary and has produced 1 td this year.

Fact: Wallace is playing on a 1 year 2.7 million dollar salary and has produced 6 tds this year.

Result: Fans overlook Wallace's 6 tds and NFL.com's characterization of Wallace as the most underpaid WR in the NFL to proclaim Brown as the better value player.

LVSteelersfan
11-28-2012, 01:15 PM
Wallace should have a dozen TDs. That is the problem most people have with him. 6 TDs over 11 games is not enough for a number one receiver. He should have at least a TD a game if he is so good. He is not even close. And Ben has given him the ball many times in a position to score and he keeps dropping them. In the end zone. In the middle of the field when he is wide open. 6 TDs is a joke for the superstar speedster of the world. I WANT him to do better. But he just keeps disappointing. He should be playing lights out in a contract year. Instead he is playing to not get hurt. He had his chance at a very lucrative contract but he chose to not accept.

Terminator
11-28-2012, 01:18 PM
If Mike Wallace was released and was signed by the Ravens, how would you all feel? Honestly.

lloydwoodson
11-28-2012, 01:21 PM
This is flawed logic. Who is Cutler supposed to throw to other than Marshall? He's the only option Cutler has while Ben has 4 very real, very dangerous targets. Why are we comparing a third year guy to Brandon Marshall, an already established clear cut number one receiver? Also, why are most of you talking like Brown is our number one receiver - he isn't. And to the guy complaining about Brown only having 490 yards - he hasn't played in two weeks. He would have been over 1000 yards again this year had he played the whole season with Ben.

Jesus, people find the stupidest things to complain about. :doh:

It really isn't flawed logic at all. One of the game's elite WRs put up the same scoring production in one game as Brown did in 33. Think about that for a minute.
.
Brandon Marshall's contract you ask? 5 years 47M. Gee, that's pretty close to Antonio Brown's 5 year 42M. I guess it IS OK to compare them.

lloydwoodson
11-28-2012, 01:23 PM
If Mike Wallace was released and was signed by the Ravens, how would you all feel? Honestly.

Exactly. I would feel it would be pretty hard to cover underneath routes with Torrie Smith and Mike Wallace blowing the top off the coverage.

Terminator
11-28-2012, 01:23 PM
Brandon Marshall's contract you ask? 5 years 47M. Gee, that's pretty close to Antonio Brown's 5 year 42M. I guess it IS OK to compare them.

When you put it like that, it kind of sucks :coffee:

cubanstogie
11-28-2012, 01:27 PM
If Mike Wallace was released and was signed by the Ravens, how would you all feel? Honestly.
The problem with Wallace is his attitude and lack of effort. I don't question his talent. I personally think he doesn't fit into this offense as well as Brown, Sanders and Miller at TE. He appears to be pouting and has shot himself in foot as far as new contract. To answer your question I would be disappointed if he went to Ravens, now if he went to the Rams I could care less. If Steelers could keep him for decent price fine, but he is not worth 10 mill a year. Brown a better option in this offense, hell Sanders is better option in this offense. You cannot expect to be rewarded in a contract year when you drop as many passes as he has , and the guy rarely makes a great catch.

LVSteelersfan
11-28-2012, 01:50 PM
I think Wallace will go to one of the high dollar teams like Dallas or Washington. He seems to be all about the dollars and those owners have no qualms about spending the money to try to buy a championship. I hope one of them gets him if we can't sign him. I doubt at this point the Steelers will be willing to franchise tag him. But stranger things have happened.

steelfury02
11-28-2012, 01:52 PM
i wouldn't be shocked to see Wallace go anywhere - the Ravens would love any chance they could get to take away one of our guys and try to show us up with him

Riddle_Of_Steel
11-28-2012, 03:23 PM
4 games. ( 1 SB) 10 receptions 160 yards... No td's That's not what you expect out of a playmaker.

I know he is good, ( lots of good wideouts ) but, he has done nothing to suggest he is anymore than that.

Absolute rubbish. With just the stats you posted alone-- that is a 16 YPC average. Also, he was still the #3 or #4 receiver at the time, so he is not going to get as many touches or red zone opprtunities. If the QB does not target him in the redzone-- he sin't going to get TDs.

Keep in mind, he matched the #1 WR's stats in his first season while still playing as our #3 or #4. He broke records for being the first to rack up 1000 yards receivng and on kick returns. The only record Wallace is going to break this year is most drops in a season.

Also, if you still aren't convinced about how much of our offense AB is responsible for-- how well has our WR corps been doing since he got injured? It looks to me like Antonio Brown opens things up for Wallace, not the other way around.

AB is the best WR on our roster right now, by a long shot.

EbonySteel86
11-28-2012, 05:08 PM
Brown is tge ONLY reason I'm ok with Wallace being gone next year.

tanda10506
11-28-2012, 05:20 PM
Brown is pretty damn good, but he is a bit overrated. Obviously Wallace is and honestly I can care less where he goes. I'd prefer it not be to Baltimore or NE, but Brady can't and doesn't throw the long ball and Baltimore already has their speedster, so as long as he's not in Pittsburgh next year WITH a big contract then I'll be happy. I actually think he's towards the bottom of the WR depth chart, he can't hang on to s***.

I wonder how much Brown being out hurt Leftwich and Batch. Seemed like nobody but Miller could get open, with Sanders occasionally squeaking out.I don't think Brown is a #1 WR, but neither is Wallace. I'd be fine with Sanders/Brown/Cotchery/Burress next year...Brown and Cotchery are already locked up for next year and Sanders and Burress will be cheaper then Wallace. I know Burress isn't a long term solution, but I think the Rooney's are thinking "championship now while Ben is still here!", and Burress is a bigger advantage in the next 2 years then Wallace IMO. No doubt Wallace has much more potential and played great about a year ago, better then Burress, but we already have tons of speed, we need a big target and a red zone beast, and that's Plax.

Wow, my last paragraph just showed how high our expectations are as Steeler fans and how spoiled we are: "I'd be FINE WITH Sanders/Brown/Cotchery/Burress next year". A lot of teams would be happy if they had two of them. And as for the argument that Brown doesn't show up in the playoffs, go Youtube "antonio brown helmet catch". He was playing as a #3 or #4 WR at that time and still made plays. We don't even make it to the AFC Champ game in 2010 if not for AB.

lloydwoodson
11-28-2012, 05:22 PM
Brown is pretty damn good, but he is a bit overrated. Obviously Wallace is and honestly I can care less where he goes. I'd prefer it not be to Baltimore or NE, but Brady can't and doesn't throw the long ball and Baltimore already has their speedster, so as long as he's not in Pittsburgh next year WITH a big contract then I'll be happy. I actually think he's towards the bottom of the WR depth chart, he can't hang on to s***.

I wonder how much Brown being out hurt Leftwich and Batch. Seemed like nobody but Miller could get open, with Sanders occasionally squeaking out.I don't think Brown is a #1 WR, but neither is Wallace. I'd be fine with Sanders/Brown/Cotchery/Burress next year...Brown and Cotchery are already locked up for next year and Sanders and Burress will be cheaper then Wallace. I know Burress isn't a long term solution, but I think the Rooney's are thinking "championship now while Ben is still here!", and Burress is a bigger advantage in the next 2 years then Wallace IMO. No doubt Wallace has much more potential and played great about a year ago, better then Burress, but we already have tons of speed, we need a big target and a red zone beast, and that's Plax.

I think this is a good comment. You are very level headed about the whole situation and I salute you for it.

Steel95
11-28-2012, 05:26 PM
Mike Wallace gets slaughtered on these boards and sometimes for good reason! But Browns stats are very average, and certainly not number 1 wideout numbers.


What? Are you kidding me? Mike Wallace doesn't run great routes; Mike Wallace doesn't have the sure hands like Brown or Sanders; Wallace isn't a complete WR like those two are. If anybody is overrated it's Wallace. Now, let me say this, if Wallace goes to a team like New England, Green Bay, Houston, or Chicago, he will possibly flourish. Why? They have a QB that's much more accurate throwing the deep ball, no knock on #7, he's just not that accurate, like it or not. But one thing is definitely for sure, Mike Wallace isn't worth $55M plus to be a #1 WR. Wallace is better suited to go to a team that's well established. :rofl:

Ricco Suavez
11-28-2012, 05:30 PM
If you can't reason that 490 yards and 1 td thru 8 games is real average, when his franchise QB has tossed it 316 times then i guess we will have to agree to disagree.

This is a skewered stat at best, with the new offence Ben has distributed his passes to many more targets. I know for a fact that he was hitting 8 to 10 different receivers a game for many games. On top of that you have a OC trying to infuse the run back into the offence and using his TE more. In this case the stats do not tell the whole story, now if you want to talk stats explain how your #1 WR could disappear the last half of last season.

teegre
11-28-2012, 05:34 PM
If that rapport is so good, why did he average 5 catches a game with Ben thru the first 8 weeks?

5 receptions X 16 games = 80 receptions

80 receptions is pretty darn good.

Ricco Suavez
11-28-2012, 05:34 PM
i wouldn't be shocked to see Wallace go anywhere - the Ravens would love any chance they could get to take away one of our guys and try to show us up with him

I honestly do not see the Ravens going after Wallace, they are going to have to pony up for Flacco and he thin ks as highly of himself as Wallace does. They are going to lose some old talent but still have to resign some of their own young WRs after their rookie contracts. I still think we may work out a deal but Wallace is going to have to earn it, his lack of effort is noticeable to all.

teegre
11-28-2012, 05:38 PM
As someone else stated:
What does Walalce have to do with AB???

AB is paid #2 WR money, and he makes #2 WR catches: he moves the chains; he catches key third-downs; and he was on pace to get 80 receptions (which is what a #2 WR) is supposed to do.

Whether Wallace has 16 TDs or 28 TDs or 6 TDs has nothing to do with whether or not AB is overrated.

Using that logic:
Calvin Johnson is taller. AB is shorter. So, AB must be overrated. :doh:

Again, what does Wallace have to do with AB???

Dino 6 Rings
11-28-2012, 05:45 PM
I always just figured Brown was the replacement for Ward. Not going to light it up during a game via stats or insane plays, but on 3rd and 8 with 3 mins left down 6 points deep in your own territory, he'll catch the ball and get the first down when you need it most.

Then, on 3rd and 19 from the 50 after a holding call and slant pass tackle, he'll be open 20 yards down field, make the catch and get the first and move the chains.

That's what I figure Brown is, and for that, he is not over rated at all.

As for the Wallace, the kid has so much potential and just seems to not want to work hard and simply rely on his speed. He has to be better at getting jump balls, fighting for position on passes, coming back or going to the ball. The Best receivers aren't just fast, they make catches in traffic, fight for the ball, and then, do something with it when they have it. He could be that, but isn't yet.

teegre
11-28-2012, 05:47 PM
I always just figured Brown was the replacement for Ward. Not going to light it up during a game via stats or insane plays, but on 3rd and 8 with 3 mins left down 6 points deep in your own territory, he'll catch the ball and get the first down when you need it most.

Then, on 3rd and 19 from the 50 after a holding call and slant pass tackle, he'll be open 20 yards down field, make the catch and get the first and move the chains.

That's what I figure Brown is, and for that, he is not over rated at all.


^^That^^

Edman
11-28-2012, 06:16 PM
All I know is this...

Since Brown went down, our Offense suffered a bit and Mike Wallace not only failed to step up in his absence (Since he's the best WR, you know), but he has considerably gotten worse. That's not the sign of a #1 receiver.

zcoop
11-28-2012, 07:31 PM
I think Wallace will go to one of the high dollar teams like Dallas or Washington. He seems to be all about the dollars and those owners have no qualms about spending the money to try to buy a championship. I hope one of them gets him if we can't sign him. I doubt at this point the Steelers will be willing to franchise tag him. But stranger things have happened.

I think Mike really wants to stay with the Steelers but felt a little betrayed when he did not get a contract agreement. He busted his butt for the team during his first contract and then they couldn't get it done (at least not yet) the second time. This is when he should be making the most money of his career, yet he's stuck making a less than many wrs that couldn't carry his jock.

Top that off, hell he could get hurt and not even get a chance to move on with his health, should the Steelers decide they will not require his services after the season.

BTW: I don't think the Antonio is overated, both cats (MW & AB) compliment each other on the field.

zcoop
11-28-2012, 07:33 PM
If Mike Wallace was released and was signed by the Ravens, how would you all feel? Honestly.

I would be pissed because I would have to cut him loose then. I couldn't root for a fucking ratbird.

Riddle_Of_Steel
11-28-2012, 08:36 PM
If Mike Wallace was released and was signed by the Ravens, how would you all feel? Honestly.

Wouldn't matter-- Joe Sacko only knows how to throw checkdowns to Ray Rice.

harrison'samonster
11-28-2012, 08:57 PM
I always just figured Brown was the replacement for Ward. Not going to light it up during a game via stats or insane plays, but on 3rd and 8 with 3 mins left down 6 points deep in your own territory, he'll catch the ball and get the first down when you need it most.

Then, on 3rd and 19 from the 50 after a holding call and slant pass tackle, he'll be open 20 yards down field, make the catch and get the first and move the chains.

That's what I figure Brown is, and for that, he is not over rated at all.

As for the Wallace, the kid has so much potential and just seems to not want to work hard and simply rely on his speed. He has to be better at getting jump balls, fighting for position on passes, coming back or going to the ball. The Best receivers aren't just fast, they make catches in traffic, fight for the ball, and then, do something with it when they have it. He could be that, but isn't yet.

I agree completely. AB is a replacement for Ward. He's the guy I want the ball thrown to when it matters. He's number 1.

kent
11-28-2012, 09:30 PM
Ive always like Brown better than wallace even though wallace puts up the stats. The offense needs both of them on the field. Wallace is your deep threat while AB is over the middle. How many punt returns for tds has he had gotten called back this season?

Lady Steel
11-28-2012, 09:55 PM
Whoever thinks Antonio Brown is overrated has a few screws loose. Just sayin'. :tt:

lipps83
11-28-2012, 10:19 PM
Ive always like Brown better than wallace even though wallace puts up the stats. The offense needs both of them on the field. Wallace is your deep threat while AB is over the middle. How many punt returns for tds has he had gotten called back this season?

Can Wallace really be considered a deep threat even these days? He is a one trick pony and that one trick seems to be fading.

I mean that in the sense that even when he is able to get open deep he drops the ball. Obviously he still has his speed, but he has stone hands.

PhantomJB93
11-28-2012, 10:30 PM
I don't know if I want to say he's overrated, but I definitely think we gave him that huge contract prematurely. I like the guy, and I won't go as far as to completely agree with some of the arguments presented against him in this thread, but he still hasn't really lived up to #1 receiver status.

Yes he makes some great 3rd down conversions. Yes he's made some great plays in the playoffs. Yes, he more often than not comes up with a clutch catch when we need him to. But when was the last time he took over a game? When was the last time he scored a receiving TD? When was the last time you sat there after a game and said "Wow, Antonio Brown made a HUGE difference today"?

He has the potential and yes, I would take him over Mike Wallace at this point, but he is hardly a #1 receiver at this stage in the game. He's a great playmaker who is reliable to get open and make a 10-yard catch when we need someone to, but not much more yet. I'm not sure many other teams in the league would have awarded this guy a $40+ million contract at this stage in his career, I still think that was done more as a knee-jerk reaction to getting fed up with Wallace, and I still think it is the most questionable thing our FO has done in a while. I'm sure 10 years from now it will be viewed as the right decision but right now it just seems like we jumped the gun a little.

Fire Arians
11-28-2012, 11:17 PM
Wouldn't matter-- Joe Sacko only knows how to throw checkdowns to Ray Rice.

or throw the ball up and beg for PI calls lol.

if they signed wallace i'd be stoked, especially if they broke the bank.

i would pay money to see this scrub get blown up by ryan clark. oh man, totally worth a 15 yard penalty. I'd even mail $200 to him to help pay his fine

austinfrench76
11-28-2012, 11:51 PM
C'mon! Brown is legit adn he is a gamer. Shows up and plays hard. Even without the n umbers, he at least LOOKS like he's trying as ahrd as he possibly can. Reminds me of Hines with his smile, unlike Wallace's fake smile, and he loves being a Steeler. What more do you want? Hines was never anyone's "#1" receiver but I would love for Brown to come anywhere close to his type of a career. And NO, I'm not calling him Hines I Just see some similarities.

casteeler
11-28-2012, 11:58 PM
Whoever thinks Antonio Brown is overrated has a few screws loose. Just sayin'. :tt:

Yes ma'am!:applaudit:

steelfury02
11-29-2012, 09:06 AM
Antonio Brown is a great fit for the Steelers. Anymore, I'm really done defining what a #1 WR should look like based on what the top 5 WRs in yards and tds are doing. If all Brown ever does is build a career on making clutch catches and assimilating a career close or better than Ward's - I would be stoked.

maddog78
11-29-2012, 01:41 PM
4 games. ( 1 SB) 10 receptions 160 yards... No td's That's not what you expect out of a playmaker.

I know he is good, ( lots of good wideouts ) but, he has done nothing to suggest he is anymore than that.

Three of those games were in his rookie year. Last year at Denver he caught 5 for 70. Wallace caught 3 for 26.

steeltheone
11-29-2012, 02:40 PM
Three of those games were in his rookie year. Last year at Denver he caught 5 for 70. Wallace caught 3 for 26.

Meanwhile D. Thomas of Denver had 200 yards and the winning touchdown, in his second year (which was like his rookie year with injuries) against us in the wildcard game with Tim Tebow at QB.

We rarely see a dominate performance like that from what people like to call a great receiving corps!

Again, I think they are good just not as good as people like to believe.

Riddle_Of_Steel
11-29-2012, 02:52 PM
Meanwhile D. Thomas of Denver had 200 yards and the winning touchdown, in his second year (which was like his rookie year with injuries) against us in the wildcard game with Tim Tebow at QB.

That was a fluke and you know it.

We rarely see a dominate performance like that from what people like to call a great receiving corps!

Again, I think they are good just not as good as people like to believe.

That's because we have enough weapons that no single guy needs to have 200 receiving yards for us to win games. Ben spreads the ball around well to Brown, Wallace, Sanders, and Miller.

If we had less playmakers in our WR corps, and more touches went to AB exclusively, he would have the fantasy stats you cherish so much. What matters is when his number is called --HE DELIVERS, while Walace drops the ball.

My only critique of brown is the whole "young money" BS. He needs to drop teh showboat crap and just play Steelers football. That 20 yard backwards TD was pretty damn funny-- but stuff like that costs the team wins.

Hawaii 5-0
11-29-2012, 06:22 PM
Whoever thinks Antonio Brown is overrated has a few screws loose. Just sayin'. :tt:

I agree...:drink:


It's Brown to the rescue for Steelers

Posted: Wednesday, November 28, 2012
By Mike Bires

http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/timesonline.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/2/70/270600d2-b8ef-51ab-a02e-e948de5c4217/50b6bcd753a0f.preview-300.jpg

With Mike Wallace in Mike Tomlin's doghouse, Antonio Brown is the Steelers' go-to guy at receiver.

PITTSBURGH – It’s unlikely the Steelers will have their franchise quarterback Sunday in Baltimore. They will have their reigning Most Valuable Player though.

With Ben Roethlisberger still rehabbing his shoulder and rib injuries, Charlie Batch expects to make his second straight start. Considering how poorly Batch played last week in Cleveland, that must be a sobering thought for the slumping Steelers (6-5).

On the bright side, however, wide receiver Antonio Brown will start after missing three games with a high ankle sprain.

The Steelers’ 2011 team MVP hopes to inject life into a stagnant offense that scored just one touchdowns in each of the past three games. In back-to-back losses to the Ravens and Browns, in which Roethlisberger and Brown both sat out, the Steelers failed to score a touchdown pass.

“I don’t know, that’s not my place to say,” Brown said when asked how much the Steelers missed his play-making abilities. “My place is to be there when my teammates need me, and I’m looking forward to giving us a spark.”

Brown’s return comes at a time when the Steelers have problems galore on offense.

* Their star QB is hurt.

* There’s chaos at running back where first-stringer Rashard Mendenhall has been demoted for his sloppy performance Sunday in Cleveland where the Steelers committed eight turnovers.

* Injuries are mounting on the offensive line.

* At wide receiver, it appears that underachieving Mike Wallace has lost his starting job to Emmanuel Sanders.

“No question. It’s always hard when you’re watching your teammates in battle, and you’re not out there helping them,” Brown said. “Since I’ve been here, I’ve never experienced back-to-back losses before. And to lose two in a row to division opponents, it’s disgusting. That’s something we don’t stand for around here.

“So we plan on getting things back to normal. I’m thankful I’ll be out there this week.”

Even though he hasn’t played since the first half of the Nov. 4 win over the Giants, Brown is still third on the team with 42 catches and 499 receiving yards. He trails tight end Heath Miller (51/516) and Wallace (47/572).

Even though the Ravens (9-2) expect to see Batch at QB again, coach John Harbaugh believes that Brown can be the X factor when these two AFC North rivals meet Sunday.

“He’s a playmaker,” Harbaugh said. “He’s a guy that can score from any part of the field, offensively or special teams-wise. He’s got tremendous quickness, speed, body control and hands.

“He’s a guy that we’ve really thought the world of, ever since he was coming out (of college), and we were going through the process of getting to know him coming out of Central Michigan. He’s just a stellar-type of guy and we’ll definitely have to have an eye on him.”

In the 2010 draft, the Steelers picked Brown in the sixth round. Also part of that draft class was Sanders, a third-round pick.

So far in their careers, Brown has been more productive. He has 127 career catches for 1,774 yards and three TDs. He also earned Pro Bowl honors last year as a kick return specialist. Sanders has 84 career catches for 1,153 yards and five TDs.

But on Sunday, it looks like Brown and Sanders will both be in the starting lineup for the first time. And they could remain starters for years to come.

“Emmanuel is doing really well,” Brown said. “He’s seizing his opportunity. When you’re presented with opportunities, you need to take advantage of them.”

That’s what Brown hopes to do again Sunday in Baltimore.

http://www.timesonline.com/sports/steelers/it-s-brown-to-the-rescue-for-steelers/article_ca413e41-3cc8-5cef-b996-90056aed5125.html

teegre
11-29-2012, 07:28 PM
Meanwhile D. Thomas of Denver had 200 yards and the winning touchdown, in his second year (which was like his rookie year with injuries) against us in the wildcard game with Tim Tebow at QB.

We rarely see a dominate performance like that from what people like to call a great receiving corps!

Again, I think they are good just not as good as people like to believe.

Brian Hartline caught something like 250 yards earlier this season. So, he is obviously the best WR in the league... :coffee:

SteelCity4Life
11-29-2012, 08:01 PM
REANTONIO BROWN HAS 3 TDS IN HIS CAREER.

BRANDON MARSHALL HAD 3 TDS IN WEEK 9.

Honestly, it is like all the idiots in the world congregated on one forum. Antonio Brown is a hard worker and a great football player. He is not a true number one receiver. Brown is an excellent slot/possession WR. Brown is not going to beat double teams with dominant physical play.

No one is holding Brown to the same standard as Wallace. People dump on Wallace for not being a top 5 WR. I have never heard Brown even MENTIONED in the same sentence as top 5 WRs. So why the special treatment? Could it be that Wallace held out in pre-season and you're all a bunch of whining, snivelling pussies?

Brown and Wallace are both good WRs. Wallace is better. End of story.

Really??? :doh:

Yeah, okay. Let's just juggle the damn ball and basically toss it up to be intercepted by THE CLEVELAND FUCKING BROWNS! :banging: That almost says enough about Wallace. I live south of Cleveland by only like, 25 miles. They flat out suck by losing games in the final quarter They're on my dang TV almost every Sunday! Had Brown been that receiver, he would have caught and held onto the ball.

The dude has a sh*tty, greedy, self-centered attitude and it's not getting better. Not ONCE have I seen much emotion from the guy. He holds out just because he wants Fitz money? Get real! You're playing for the Pittsburgh Steelers. You should be happy just to be part of such a great organization.

Wallace was on tap for being Brown's skill but ever since he dropped off in the 2nd half of last season he has been NO saving grace by ANY means.

I see Brown as the heart and attitude that was so like that of good ol' #86. If he keeps catching what's thrown to him he's the most solid catching the ball outside of Heath Miller.

Holding the ball against your HELMET on a 3rd and 12+ play and retaining possession says a lot.

Wallace= no emotion, greedy, OVER RATED
Brown= plenty of smiles, clutch catches, 1,000 yds receiving and returning

Take your pick. Wallace can take his BS attitude and poor play (especially as of late) the hell out of Pittsburgh. Speed is his only asset. Let him walk. :wave:

Fire Arians
11-29-2012, 08:08 PM
brown just has the look of someone who wants to play the game, while wallace has the look of someone lacking any type of 'give a shits'

lipps83
11-29-2012, 08:59 PM
Brian Hartline caught something like 250 yards earlier this season. So, he is obviously the best WR in the league... :coffee:

If I played fantasy football, that would be my kind of player cause those guys are the best.

zcoop
11-29-2012, 09:19 PM
brown just has the look of someone who wants to play the game, while wallace has the look of someone lacking any type of 'give a shits'

AB has a long term contract with guaranteed money to boot, MW doesn't. If he gets taken out by an injury, he's screwed. Having a signed contract gives one piece of mind in employment situations. This shit isn't new.

Fire Arians
11-29-2012, 10:42 PM
AB has a long term contract with guaranteed money to boot, MW doesn't. If he gets taken out by an injury, he's screwed. Having a signed contract gives one piece of mind in employment situations. This shit isn't new.

either that or complacency, a lot of players level of play drops off after they get a big contract. mike is pissing away a golden opportunity, but hey, it's his money

zcoop
11-29-2012, 11:17 PM
either that or complacency, a lot of players level of play drops off after they get a big contract. mike is pissing away a golden opportunity, but hey, it's his money

I don't think its all on him, sure he's dropped a few passes this season. Also, we have a different offense this year, one that he will not get the ball as much as he did in the past. And we've had our starting QB out to boot. I won't make excuses for the guy but I will try to give him the benefit of doubt because of his total contribution to the team. We've had some shitty luck with injuries at key positions this year too.

If we let him go, I don't think potential suitors will hold this season against him because they know what he can do if he is targeted in an offense. We'll see what gives next summer. This is one helluva business, isn't it?

steeltheone
11-30-2012, 12:39 AM
Yes ma'am!:applaudit:

TY Hilton has Browns stats ???

steeltheone
11-30-2012, 12:42 AM
brown just has the look of someone who wants to play the game, while wallace has the look of someone lacking any type of 'give a shits'

490 YARDS in 8 games and 1 td is sooo Awesome

ShutDown24
11-30-2012, 03:01 AM
490 YARDS in 8 games and 1 td is sooo Awesome

490 through 8 games had him on pace to go for about 1,000 yards. Touchdowns are a crapshoot. So he's a 1,000 yard receiver who sees time at special teams, too. If you think we overpaid for that, so be it. But the passing game has nearly disappeared without Brown's playmaking. So no, he's not overrated.

tony hipchest
11-30-2012, 03:45 AM
. But the passing game has nearly disappeared without Brown's playmaking. So no, he's not overrated.

:rolleyes:

please... the passing game has nearly disappeared w/o BEN's playmaking and the addition of 2 often injured, broke dick quarterbacks.

i like brown alot, but lets not act like he is the one who makes this offense tick. you might as well say that it was pierre garcon who made peyton manning.

what you have just done is overrated brown in a thread stating that brown is overrated. :applaudit:

SteelBobbleHead
11-30-2012, 01:39 PM
490 YARDS in 8 games and 1 td is sooo Awesome

You seem to keep basing your opinion on stats as opposed to sight. There is another reciever in this league who would be overrated by your standards. His stats through the first eight games this season. 767 yards receiving and 1 TD. Are you saying that receiving isn't number one quality? That receiver is Calvin Johnson.

BlaZeQuietly
11-30-2012, 02:14 PM
Usually I give someone with a post title as stupid as that the benefit of the doubt, but in your case I didnt even read your post, and would like to inform you that you sir, are an idiot.

Steeldude
11-30-2012, 02:23 PM
Mike Wallace gets slaughtered on these boards and sometimes for good reason! But Browns stats are very average, and certainly not number 1 wideout numbers.

Another uninformed fan thinking stats are the only indicator of a #1 WR.

The only thing Wallace has on Brown is his 40 time.

Wallace's holdout is the best thing that could have happened to the Steelers. Could you imagine being stuck paying this bum $10,000,000 a season to give up on plays?

BlaZeQuietly
11-30-2012, 02:30 PM
I think the reason he is sucking as bad as he does is because he didnt get the extra millions of dollars he wanted so he's not even trying and being a little sissy girl about it. He isnt cut out to be a steeler, I think he'd look great in some purple and a neck brace.

steeltheone
11-30-2012, 02:42 PM
490 through 8 games had him on pace to go for about 1,000 yards. Touchdowns are a crapshoot. So he's a 1,000 yard receiver who sees time at special teams, too. If you think we overpaid for that, so be it. But the passing game has nearly disappeared without Brown's playmaking. So no, he's not overrated.

The passing game has disappeared because we lost our franchise gunslinger.

steeltheone
11-30-2012, 02:49 PM
Usually I give someone with a post title as stupid as that the benefit of the doubt, but in your case I didnt even read your post, and would like to inform you that you sir, are an idiot.

Why would you resort to a personal attack on a board that is about opinions? Very immature!

BlaZeQuietly
11-30-2012, 03:06 PM
Why would you resort to a personal attack on a board that is about opinions? Very immature!

I can't anymore I got yelled at by one of the admin. So I'm sorry, k buddy?:hug:

BlaZeQuietly
11-30-2012, 03:08 PM
Look what has become of us, with out Ben even our forums are in disarray, fighting amounts our selves like rabid saint Bernards.

LayingTheWoodley56
12-02-2012, 09:40 AM
Antonio Brown is nobody amazing. Dependable starter perhaps but I wouldn't call him pro bowl material or a once in a generation talent. He only has 3 career receiving TD's. The love you see for Brown is mostly an effect of Wallace's holdout. Wallace became the bad guy and people needed a hero to put him down. And on that matter Wallace hasn't played well either.

I'd have to disagree on this one. Brown, yes, has been a little light on the TD's but he has had only a handful of career starts and he is capable of making some truly spectacular plays. I know it was only preseason, but that catch and run against Indy this season was unbelievable. And the TD against the Browns on Thursday night last year was similarly incredible. He has big play capabilities and I do agree that he is the superior all around receiever to Wallace, and it is unfortunate that 17 has fallen so far from grace this year.